I have these books of court records from the mid1500s England and they are bursting full of stories of murder, arson, riots and just strange stuff that leaves me burning with questions. For example these 2 women kept burning each other’s barns down and I really want to know what started the feud.Another account is a woman who was charged with snatching a man’s beard half off while beating the man with a leg of mutton - again, what was THAT all about?? Why a leg of mutton?
I found my books on Amazon - they aren’t mass printed but they can be found. The title of the best one is called “Elizabethan Life - Disorder” by FG Emmison. The second is “Morals and the Church Courts” by FG Emmison as well.
Question is Why not a leg of mutton? it's a blunt tool , probably goes back to our proto human ancestors who used anything as a weapon including the "Long bone" the Femur to club someone over the head , it'll do the trick same as a leg of mutton.
I love the intro music along with the wind and the flags blowing! And then it leads into that pretty song. You do the music so well. It doesn’t drown out your voice. It’s exactly what it’s supposed to be. BACKGROUND music. Some videos have the music so loud that I have a hard time hearing the narrator. Practically blows my eardrums out with headphones on!
Yup. The ruling class always finds ways to scapegoat innocent working class people in order to avoid responsibility and consequences for their heinous actions. It's a tale as old as class-based society.
Just drawn to the place of execution (a form of humiliation, as in drawn there on a cart) and hanged, not quartered though! The details are all in the book this video is based on, "Murder During the Hundred Years' War" by Melissa Julian-Jones
@@YouknowwhereHughgo ooh I would also say that in the book, it looks at whether the servants DID have motive, and if it was a case of community justice for a crime William had committed either domestic violence against his wife or the assault of Agatha the maid, none of which is provable, but also neither is the idea Maud and Sheriff Thomas were having an affair. There is no evidence they even met before the trial, so the fact he married her afterwards could have been because he saw a widow no one else would touch, and he wanted to (a) protect her and have a mother for his young son who was 10 at the time, Thomas was a widower, or (b) he saw a chance to get ahead socially and swooped in when she was vulnerable. We just don't know! For her sake I really really hope it was option a if that was the case... but she outlived him too and got married off to husband number 3, a very ambitious younger man that Ralph Paynell supported. Ralph seems to have controlled Maud a bit in that sense like the way a father would a daughter, arranging her life for her. That is mentioned in the book but not a lot of detail.
@@gwynbleidd1917 Yep, loads of historians think the same thing, Frederik Pedersen for example is quoted in this video but not referenced in the description. He thinks it's really likely Maud was in on it, and so was Ralph Paynell and Thomas Kydale. He's following Rosamund Sillem's opinions there, she's the first person to rediscover this case in the 1930s! In the book "Murder During the Hundred Years' War" by Melissa Julian-Jones, there are lots of other angles to the case that get looked at as well, like the servants themselves who often get ignored or written off as victims of the elite or paid thugs, but there's evidence that they were a close knit group. So something never considered (except in this book) is what if the servants are exacting their own revenge against William for something he had done to them, or to Agatha the maid? Given that Maud didn't have children and the stigma around his brother Nicholas, William was living in a county where people knew all about what had gone on with his brother, and now here he was, with no kids of his own etc... and Agatha was the only other woman in the household. So is this a situation of communal justice exacted on a man that the servants know they can't take to court? We won't ever know for sure. The author of that book is giving an online workshop in Feb 2025 where you can come along and get a source pack (translated into English from the Latin) and come up with your own creative response to the case, and decide for yourself what happened, or pick the motives you find most likely. It's mainly aimed at creative writers wanting to work with real historical source material, but anyone can come along for interest. It's called "Medieval Murder: Goth Detectives" and it's run by the Romancing the Gothic project, sign ups via Eventbrite.
@@marianneegland5576 yes indeed get you a Lil history and murder that's the combo that means you got channel thumbs up and subscribe wr all in it the older the bettef
You'd love the book this video is based on then: it's "Murder During the Hundred Years' War" by Melissa Julian-Jones (Pen & Sword Books, 2020). That's the only book-length treatment of this case, and this video uses the material in the book and condenses it for the time limit. The book also has a lot more info about other murders for comparison, and looks at 14thC society more widely. There are other wild cases mentioned there, too.
Why isn't "Murder During the Hundred Years' War : The Curious Case of William de Cantilupe" by Melissa Julian-Jones cited in the description? Seems a bit unfair to the author who spent the time writing and researching the book and this topic.
Exactly! Have had the pleasure of learning about this from the author herself, sad to see her NOT credited in this video, without her book I doubt people would even know about this case
So what I'm thinking is they got the initial content from the Wikipedia page that naturally heavily cites Pedersen and Sillem (also not credited) but the structure of the book and some of its phrasing like "In May 1375..." reflects the book itself and is uncomfortably close to this. The wiki page has this book under "Further Reading" and cites the studies done by other academics, but the wiki page should be signposted here too, as they've also quoted Pedersen's translations of the sources exactly without citation.
Is he claiming that this is his research though? No? Then it's all okay. You're confusing someone's video, that they made,as a hobby, because they have an interest in history with a professional historian presenting a documentary.... Which I don't know how you would get that mixed up, but I'm glad I clarified that for you.
I'm thinking of an old English poem called "Twa Corbies." It's told from the perspective of two crows eying a dead knight's body and picking out the choicest bits. It was written in Chaucer's time, if not written by Chaucer himself.
@@alanthomson1227 It is Scottish. I thought it was written in Old English. My bad. I got the plot right at least. Two ravens sitting on a branch over looking a dead knight, and they're picking out the best bits.
This one? Definitely Scottish Trad. "As I was walking all alane, I heard twa corbies making a mane; The tane unto the t’other say, ‘Where sall we gang and dine to-day?’ " Interestingly, there's a pub in Glasgow called The Twa Corbies.
@@CarlinConnolly the author of the book this whole video is based on goes into a lot more detail about motive and possible reasons for the servants acting in this way, including community justice for a crime William committed against them or his wife that they couldn't get legal support for since he was sitting on the eyre court and he was in a position of power over them. The book is called Murder During the Hundred Years' War by Melissa Julian-Jones and the author is doing a workshop online in Feb with the Romancing the Gothic project! So if you want to have some fun over 2 days working out how you might plug the gaps in the evidence creatively, you can come along to that, it is on Eventbrite under the events "Romancing the Gothic" are running. The workshop event is called "Medieval Murder: Goth Detectives"
I enjoyed this and the graphics are especially good! But I'm glad there isn't a quiz at the end!😉That's a lot of information for a short video. (Now I'll read the transcript to sort some things out.) A fascinating story!
This whole video is based on a book called "Murder During the Hundred Years' War" by Melissa Julian-Jones and I'm really sad they didn't credit this properly in the description - the book has all the sources cited and an appendix of extra material! EDIT: the video *structure* mirrors the book structure, and the phrasing at the start is how the book opens - I'd recommend that as the starting point, but also Frederik Pedersen's work on this case too, he was the first to do a major study on it but his articles are in academic journals and some are paywalled. His book "Marriage Disputes in Medieval England" is the most accessible I think, and you'll find Nicholas and Katherine's case discussed in there!
The moment I heard "John of Gaunt" I thought : could it be the guy who uttered the "This sceptred Isle, this happy breed" speech in Richard II by Will Sh? Turns out I was right. Richard II is one of my favourite plays. Very poetic.
It is indeed THAT John of Gaunt! The video is based on the book "Murder During the Hundred Years' War" by Melissa Julian-Jones, which has more information than can be squeezed into this video's timeframe
@@chilibeer3912 😂😂 the video lifts details and the order of phrasing from the book on pp 3-4 which I emailed them some screenshots of, with a direct quote from the wikipedia article in the middle that references Pedersen and Bellamy and that's also where the note on John of Gaunt is from. The transcript mangles Frederik Pedersen's name so badly while quoting him, even though he was the one who did the first major study, I think both the book and Pedersen ought to be properly cited in the video description, or at least a link put in to the wiki article that extensively quotes him (that is where the Bellamy quote comes from too). Pedersen doesn't delve too deeply into the background of William in terms of context, as his are article length treatments, and he has a particular focus, so you won't find too much on John of Gaunt there I don't think?? The book goes into more detail but John of Gaunt isn't a major player.
You might also love the book this is based on - "Murder During the Hundred Years' War" by Melissa Julian-Jones. It's the full book treatment of this case aimed at a general audience, and it's got the full list of players in the front to make it a bit easier to keep all the names straight and who they all were! It's a shame they didn't cite this in the video description when they put the video up, as it looks like the whole video is basically from that book (but obviously condensed).
Ooh also, Frederik Pedersen's work on this is really good. He's quoted extensively in the wiki article about this case and his book "Marriage Disputes in medieval England" talks more about Nicholas and Katherine and their issues!! Recommend.
When you started off by listing all the things involved in this story I figured at least some of them would only be tangential and were thrown in for humour, but nope, all relevant.
The book this video is based on is "Murder During the Hundred Years' War" by Melissa Julian-Jones and it's not credited in the video description at all, but that's got loads more info in it as well. It's such a wild ride. The video packs as much in as possible in the time, but the book has all the source material, an appendix of extra tangential stuff, and comparative cases too. Lots of murders, but this one as the central case it looks at. It's also the only book-length treatment on this case! I'm really sad they didn't cite it, as the video literally uses the chapters and everything pretty much beat for beat... :(
My comment disappeared from last night, weird. This whole video is based on the book "Murder During the Hundred Years' War" by Melissa Julian-Jones, and the writer of this video is credited as Lisa E Rawcliffe only, but the material seems to be structured around the book Julian-Jones wrote. So she and her book need to be credited in the video description too please. If you've used the wikipedia article for the details and content, then the quotes you've used come directly from Frederik Pedersen, and he should also be cited. You'll find Julian-Jones's work there in "Further Reading" and what bothers me is the opening phrase of the video and the structure of the video, which mirrors the structure of Julian-Jones's book. This opens with "In May 1375..." in Chapter 1: Discovery of a Body. This phrasing and structure isn't from the wikipedia page, but people should also be directed there, because that gives a load of really good info and source material.
I think when you make a video out of a book , script writer gets the credit for summarising down the whole content. That's what content creator think. But source material should also be mentioned for more enthusiasts.
@@paurushbhatnagar8100 yeah there were people in the comments asking for sources and it is also becoming more of an issue with students who quote podcasts and yt channels in essays ... they get downgraded for that where we are, because it isn't a secondary source and there is no citation to corroborate anything they say. I have had students ask me about using UA-cam channels as sources in essays and im like. No. You will lose marks for that. I find it really strange that content creators don't just list sources in the video description! Like if it isn't copyrighted material then ok I see it, but it just feels weird to me.
Wild that I know the person who dug up all the research on this case, who literally wrote the book on it years ago, and is the only person to have written properly on it and yet she gets no mention in this video.
@@MindMouthSoul like it is a decent video but just can we credit the researcher and person who wrote it all up so that people could access the story to start with???? 😭😭😭 But even the Wiki article isn't referenced here. Like, the content may have been from wikipedia, but the phrasing of the opening and the whole structure of the video mirrors Julian-Jones's book?? It starts with Chapter 1: Discovery of a Body and opens "In May 1375..." but the wikipedia article doesn't do that, and isn't structured in the same way. That's why I think this was based on the book, because of the video structure.
Just to say, Rosamund Sillem was the first to rediscover this case in the 1930s, and Frederik Pedersen then did the next major study on it (or first after Sillem), as he got into the case I think by way of Nicholas and Katherine's marriage and its annulment in the ecclesiastical court rolls (York). Pedersen was the first to suggest that Nicholas was intersex, and that he may have had CAH. Julian-Jones discovered the case through the Lincolnshire Eyre Rolls (Sillem's edition and introduction) and Pedersen, and then put the book together based on the original sources, these secondary studies, and the contextualisation of the 14thC society the murder happened in. Hers is the only *book-length* treatment, but Pedersen is the first major academic study. His articles are extensively quoted in the wikipedia article, along with the much briefer treatment of the case by Paul Strohm in the 1990s. Sillem's discussions (1936?) appear only in the introduction to her edition of the Lincolnshire Eyre Rolls, and was picked up by Cam in his contemporary review of this edition. He basically agreed with her assumption / suggestion (based on no evidence) that Maud was having an affair with the sheriff, which is what Julian-Jones critiques in the book, and I think is the only person to do so. Pedersen also follows Sillem, as does C. Rawcliffe and others. Nobody else has really looked at the servants' dynamics and so on; that's where Julian-Jones diverges, and her book looks at alternative motives that others had not considered! It would seem that this video follows the structure of Julian-Jones's book which opens with Chapter 1: The Discovery of the Body > > going through to the arrests, the motivations, and so on, and the trial and aftermath last. The book opens "In May 1375..." - and sets out the next steps after the discovery of the body, like the video does (and the wiki article does not, that I can see?). This detail is certainly from the book, and way that the video summarises the case seems to come from Julian-Jones's introduction, or mirror that very closely, rather than the wiki article. I think it would be a good idea to at least reference the wikipedia article, because Frederik's work is so heavily used, and Julian-Jones's book because of the structural similarities and some of the phrasing.
I had a terrible book we read in my home lang class though, about the Spanish inquisition, and a woman burned at the stake. I wanted to cry and vomit, can't believe they had us read that 😢😳😡
@@frankjamesbonarrigo7162 same I can't think of another medieval whodunit film... the film and TV rights for this story sit with Pen & Sword Books who published the book that this whole video is based on, "Murder During the Hundred Years' War" by Melissa Julian-Jones in 2020
@@Gonefishing6572 In the sources it is more commonly spelled Paynell, and Ralph Paynell was elected sheriff of Lincolnshire 2 or 3 times! There is more info about him in the book this whole video is based on, "Murder During the Hundred Years' War" by Melissa Julian-Jones. You will find all the names in the case written at the front of the book which makes it easier to follow them all and keep them all straight!
@@rotterred991 it is indeed, the author of the book that this is based on (Murder During the Hundred Years' War by Melissa Julian-Jones) did her PhD thesis on the Cantilupes!
This video is based on the book "Murder During the Hundred Years' War" by Melissa Julian-Jones - she's not cited in the video description yet but I know she's reached out to have that rectified. This one is such a fascinating case, and it deserves wider consideration!
'No copyright infringement intended' is a hollow sentiment when you both structure your video off of a book and refuse to credit its author. To the viewers who enjoyed the subject, please consider picking up Murder During the Hundred Years' War by Dr. Melissa Julian-Jones. She's also running an interactive course based on this case February 2025 which you can find on Eventbrite under the title Medieval Murder: Goth Detectives.
I love these presentations. I had to view it twice to keep most of the players straight in my mind in this scandalous scandal. Another you-can't-make-this-stuff-up slice of history deftly told... didn't Peter Sellars try to make a movie about this?😆
This video is based on the book "Murder During the Hundred Years' War" by Melissa Julian-Jones, and it's sad that they haven't yet put this in the video description to credit the author's work, but the book has a ton of fun info and additional stuff, and a lot of sources cited. Keeping the players straight is tough but the book has a list of them in the front to help out!!
@@emilien. I'd also say that Frederik Pedersen is the first major study of the case (he's written a lot of articles on it, and mainly about Nicholas's drama with Katherine). So if that's the angle that interests you, definitely check out Pedersen's book "Marriage Disputes in Medieval England" as a lot of the quotes from this video come from Pedersen's translations of the sources directly. You can find a lot of them in the wikipedia article about this case, and of course Julian-Jones's book references these as well, and cites Pedersen a lot, but also questions the traditional assumptions of historians since the 1930s that it's Maud + the Sheriff whodunit.
It's discussed more in the book this video is based on, which is "Murder During the Hundred Years' War" by Melissa Julian-Jones - it's very likely that Nicholas was intersex, and some historians think he had congenital adrenal hyperplasia [CAH]. This is Frederik Pedersen's suggestion and his work is cited in the wiki article of this case, you can read more about it in his book "Marriage Disputes in Medieval England". There's a lot more in Julian-Jones book than the video can squeeze into the timeframe, so it's a real shame the book isn't (as of now) cited in the video description. If they just reached out to the author she'd let them keep the video up if they cited her. :/ It would be good to cite Pedersen too or at least the wiki article?
Interesting story but I know that your William was not the husband of Maud Neville d.1438 daughter of Ralph Neville, 1st Earl of Westmoreland c. 1364-1425. It is documented that Maud’s husband is Peter Mauley, 5th Baron Mauley c. 1378-1415. Ralph Neville is my direct ancestor. I have studied a lot about his family.
Maud was most likely the daughter of Philip Neville of Scotton, a cadet line of the Neville family. This is in the book that this is based on, "Murder During the Hundred Years' War" by Melissa Julian-Jones, which is the only book-length treatment of this murder case, and came out with Pen & Sword Books in 2020. This video doesn't credit the author or the book in the description that I can see (at the time of this comment), but you find more info on the Scotton nobility in here! The cadet line of the Nevilles aren't mentioned in great detail though so possibly not of great interest to you from this perspective.
This video hasn’t cited the actual author Melissa Julian Jones - can the owners of this channel please cite her - as this is plagiarising someone’s actual book
So what I suspect is that the Wikipedia article which cites Pedersen's study and Sillem's work a lot (and has Julian-Jones's book as Further Reading) is the basis for the content, but what's happened here is that the phrasing and the way they've set out the video chapters echoes Julian-Jones's book. "In May 1375..." is not a phrase taken from the wiki article that I can see, but it is a phrase taken from Julian-Jones's book, and it's how the book opens - with the discovery of the body. The book then goes on to look at things in roughly the same order that the video does, and that bothers me a lot, as you can totally use the Wiki article as the basis for the content (BUT YOU SHOULD CITE IT SOMEWHERE, or AT LEAST cite Pedersen's work and Sillem's too) but it's the structure and phrasing that echo the Julian-Jones book that strike me as flying quite close to the wind here. If it's purely using the wiki article and Pedersen quotations, then they need to reference Frederik's work, as he's the one who translated those quotes. Julian-Jones cites Pedersen, Carol Rawcliffe, Sillem, and others, and is the only mainstream book-length treatment of this case. Pedersen got into it via Nicholas and Katherine's anullment case in the Ecclesiastical Court records, I think, and his book "Marriage Disputes in Medieval England" should also be referenced, or at least his work as it is cited in the wiki article, as the original source quotes are all his translations. Julian-Jones did look at the original material and transcribed/translated some herself as well, but the video seems to use Pedersen's quotations without citation also.
it was the dude that married the widow mentioned at the end...... that is why she ran off as soon as he died and didn't tell anyone she was leaving....her lover killed him, they layed low a little bit then married......POOR MR. COOK and that other guy that hung for it.
Dang she said "I want babies"🤬 I will say why she didnt just speak with her husband about taking a low-key lover. Then again, people were often absolutely ridiculous to women of all ages so I can't blame her for feeling murder was the only option.
There are some other suggestions regarding motive in the book this video is structured on - "Murder During the Hundred Years' War" by Melissa Julian-Jones. The author isn't credited in the video (at the time of this comment) but the video doesn't pack in all the info and the suggestions for motive that are in the book! There's a lot of stuff that digs into things like domestic violence and community justice, with comparative cases and even some other cases that were similar, where lords were offed by their wives and servants. So there's possibly a lot more to the case than Maud wanting a lover or kids. She actually never had any, and got through 3 husbands!
The de Cantilupes were a family who came over to England after the Conquest, their name means "singing wolves" and is from a small village called chantiloup (but we're not sure which one!) This video is based on the book "Murder During the Hundred Years' War" by Melissa Julian-Jones, which came out with Pen & Sword Books in 2020, but she's not credited here (at the time this comment was written). But the book has a load more stuff that isn't in the video!
Ooh I'd also say if you liked this, check out Frederik Pedersen's work on it too. Frederik isn't cited in this video either, but he did a major study on this case and although those articles are in academic journals and some are paywalled, he's extensively quoted in the wikipedia article. Julian-Jones is cited in that article under "Further Reading", although looking at it I think a couple of the statements as yet uncited in the wiki article also come from her book, but would have to check that before editing.
"No copyright infringement intended" but you can't credit the author who wrote the book about this obscure murder where you got all your information from, "Murder During the Hundred Year War: The Curious Case of Sir William Cantilupe" by Melissa Julian-Jones?? Really poor form, easy to remedy though...
Yeah, so it looks like the structure of the video mirrors the book, right? Chapter 1: Discovery of a Body, etc. That's not the way the wikipedia page is structured. But also Frederik Pedersen wrote the first major study on this and his quotations are used in the video which are on Wikipedia, and also quoted (and cited) by Julian-Jones. It would be good if Frederik was acknowledged too, or at least the wiki article? Julian-Jones is listed on that page in "Further Reading".
100% everyone in the household knew. In the book this based on, "Murder During the Hundred Years' War" by Melissa Julian-Jones, there is more info than they can squeeze into the video's timeframe, but it explores lots of possible motives which we don't have recorded! The book also goes into much more detail about 14thC society and servant life, and uses that context to work out what the different motives could have been. Ultimately though it's up to us to make our own minds up as there are some things we'll never know for sure.
There's a Maud Neville - I'm sure! - involved in another mediæval murder story: that of my namesake (no relation!) Sir Christopher Talbot. But that was about 70 years later. The Nevilles were a very powerful Northern family. Richard Neville, the Earl of Warwick, was known as "the Kingmaker" during the Wars of the Roses. This Maud was the wife of John, First Earl of Shrewsbury, who was Marshall (?) of France. Sir Christopher his son was champion jouster of England, and a kind of Sheriff for South Yorkshire and North Nottinghamshire, where the Talbot family had large estates. Sir Christopher, however, was based in Cause Castle - ten miles west of Shrewsbury and guarding one of the main routes on the Welsh border. He was murdered with a lance through the heart at this location by a Welsh knight in his employ called Sir Gryffyth Vaughn (who went into hiding and was himself summarily killed in revenge). The Earl had two wives, the second of which - perhaps Maud - bore Sir Chris and later died in childbirth. She was buried at Worksop Priory, an establishment partially saved from the criminal ravages of Henry VIII by the sixth (?) Earl. Also buried there was John's eldest son, the Second Earl, who was killed at the battle of Northampton. I have not found Sir Christopher's resting place yet: it might be Worksop or Sheffield. There might also be a York-Lancaster angle to the murder, longvbefore the outbreak of hostilities, as Sir Gryffyth is alleged to have been a Yorkist. I'm pretty sure Maud was John's second wife. John is buried in Whitchurch.
@@christophertalbot9488 that's fascinating! This whole video is based on the book "Murder During the Hundred Years' War" by Melissa Julian-Jones and it doesn't mention this case you've talked about, but it does compare the case in the video with others from around the time, and looks at other cases where the Lord was killed in an apparent collaboration between servants and wife. The author actually did her thesis on the Corbets of Caus Castle 1100-1300 and the Cantilupe family! So that's a fun connection to your case, too.
They weren't hung drawn *and* quartered I think??? Just drawn to the place of execution and hanged? The details are in the book "Murder During the Hundred Years' War" by Melissa Julian-Jones, possible I'm misremembering but I'm pretty sure they were just hanged.... the book came out in 2020 with Pen & Sword Books. Cook and Gyse were almost certainly thrown under the bus whatever happened, as Sheriff Thomas and the Eyre court didn't originally seem to think it was these 2 at all. This is based on Maud's testimony, and we don't know how far this is trustworthy. It could have been 100% true and what happened, but it could be that they literally drew straws and Gyse and Cooke went down for everyone, or it could be that Maud by herself threw them to the court for her own reasons.
This whole video is based on the book "Murder During the Hundred Years' War" by Melissa Julian-Jones which has full sources and an appendix - the eBook is about £4.99 and it's out with Pen & Sword Books. You could probably also order from your library!
For sources on this - Frederik Pedersen is the historian who did the first major study on this case and in particular on Nicholas's annulment drama with Katherine Paynell, and although I think a lot of his work is in academic journals so therefore paywalled, check out "Marriage Disputes in Medieval England". You might find a lot of his work cited in the wikipedia article on this case as a starter for ten, and that also cites the work of Rosamund Sillem who was the first person to re-discover William's murder case in the 1930s! She was translating the Lincolnshire Eyre Rolls (court records from the 14thC) and came across it. Sillem wrote about it at length in her introduction to the rolls, and it was Sillem who decided Maud was guilty and having an affair with the sheriff. She didn't have any evidence for that, but since then, almost everyone follows Sillem in assuming that this was true. You'll find a lot of the content from the video referenced in the wikipedia article, but again, the structure of the video and its chapters seems to follow the Julian-Jones book, "Murder During the Hundred Years' War" which opens with "In May 1375..." in Chapter 1: Discovery of a Body, and goes on to discuss the role of the coroner and the sheriff, then moves on to the arrests and gives more details there, and also discusses the layout of the manor and so on. There are a lot more details and context in that book.
@@nightwolf1982 TV and film rights belong to Pen & Sword Books, as this whole video is based on a book they published in 2020 called "Murder During the Hundred Years' War: The Curious Case of William de Cantilupe" by Melissa Julian-Jones, so that's who to call to make the movie happen 😂😂
The whole video is based on the book "Murder During the Hundred Years' War" by Melissa Julian-Jones, and the book has a list of all the names in the front so it's easier to look them up and follow. It's pretty cheap (the eBook is £4.99 I think) and you could probably get it from your library or ask them to order it in! That's an easier way to keep all the names straight, as the case is really complex... so many people... I'm sad that they didn't credit the book/author in this video or the description. She's the only person to have written a book on this case, and the video follows it beat for beat. :( But it's worth a look.
Look we gwan tell you'll one more time I have no channel I'm not a you tuber I see I got four subs lol we just comment we not you tubers we have no channel we have jobs good lawd how many times we gonna say it I hVe no channel lol duh
This video is based on the book "Murder During the Hundred Years' War" by Melissa Julian-Jones - this has all the sources, and the video follows the book's chapters beat for beat. It's the author of the book who did all the history research but she's not credited in the video's description unfortunately... :((( (not at the time of this comment) EDIT: also check the wikipedia article, as Frederik Pedersen's work should be credited in the video as well, he did the first major study on the case which he got into via Nicholas and Katherine's drama. I think a lot of the quotes in this are from the wiki article which are Pedersen's translations, or Rosamund Sillem's. Julian-Jones's book references these and a load of historians, and original source material.
@@ShakesSphere I know right?? This whole video is based on the book "Murder During the Hundred Years' War" by Melissa Julian-Jones (Pen and Sword Books 2020) and there is so much more info there than the video can squeeze in, so it is a shame they didn't credit the book in the video description at least. BUT in the book, there are a lot of different motives explored as we will never know the "why" for sure, and if we don't know why, we can't for sure say "who". The gaps in the sources are just as interesting as what we do know! The author is actually doing a 2 day creative workshop on this very case in Feb 2025 with the Romancing the Gothic project, where you get source packs to read and keep, and you can work with the historical material (translated for you into English) and fill in the gaps yourself. It is aimed at creative writers mainly who want to work with real history, but open to everyone who just likes to tell a good tale or listen to other people's interpretations of the evidence! You can get tickets on Eventbrite, it is an event listed by "Romancing the Gothic" and it is called Medieval Murder: Goth Detectives. Should be really fun.
@@ShakesSphere I'd also recommend the wiki article as I'd be remiss not to point out that Frederik Pedersen did a major study on this case in article form, and also recommend his book "Marriage Disputes in Medieval England" as the most accessible and not paywalled thing he's done, where you can read more about Nicholas and Katherine's marriage and annulment case. The wikipedia article has Julian-Jones's book in "Further Reading", and it also cites Pedersen and Rosamund Sillem who was the very first person to rediscover this case in the Lincolnshire eyre rolls!
@@dabestyoutube5433 the video is based on the book "Murder During the Hundred Years' War" by Melissa Julian-Jones and there are a load more details in there that the video couldn't squeeze in for running time..... the author is even doing a 2 day workshop on this case in Feb, all online, so if you want more go check out the book or the "Romancing the Gothic" project on Eventbrite, the event is called Medieval Murder: Goth Detectives.
I would also say that another major study they don't cite in the video is Frederik Pedersen, and you can read loads more about Nicholas and Katherine in his studies of this and the case. The most accessible one is "Marriage Disputes in Medieval England" but he also wrote an article where he sets out his retrospective diagnosis hypothesis for Nicholas de Cantilupe, suggesting he may have had CAH (Congenital Adrenal Hyperplasia). I think that this video takes a lot from Pedersen's studies as these are cited in the wikipedia page for this murder case, where Julian-Jones's book is cited in "Further Reading", but the structure of the video seems to follow Julian-Jones book which opens with Chapter 1: The Discovery of a Body, and talks about the coroner's role and the sheriff, then proceeds to discuss the different aspects of the case through to the Trial and its Aftermath which is the last chapter of the book. You can find more info from Pedersen and some pointers on where to find out more about all that in the wikipedia article, and full citations and references in the Julian-Jones book too.
I don't think the medievals know what the meaning of petty is. I can only imagine the horror awaiting a guilty person for very serious treason. Shudder
It's the same! "Petty treason" in medieval English law means more like 'lesser treason'. Treason against the king as a crime was developed out of the idea that the man was the head of the household, and the king derived his power *from this basic idea*, not the other way around. So petty treason was applied to when a wife murdered her husband or a servant their lord & master, but when a man killed his wife, that was the crime of homicide, not "treason" of any type. He would still be hanged for that, but not drawn on a cart in humiliation and hanged (petty treason penalty). A woman = hanged for murder but burned alive for petty treason... This is all discussed more in the book this video seems to be structured around, "Murder During the Hundred Years' War" by Melissa Julian-Jones (Pen&Sword Books 2020) and it has loads more murder cases and comparisons to this one. This video quotes some of that book, and the book's source material and the translations of the sources the book uses. EDIT: I'd recommend reading Frederik Pedersen's work on this case as well, he did the first major study on it and is quoted extensively in the wikipedia article. This video also uses Pedersen's quotes.
If you liked this, as the video doesn't cite its sources, I'd recommend Frederik Pedersen's work on this as he did a major study on it, and he's extensively quoted in the wikipedia article. The video itself seems to be structured around the only book-length treatment of this case which is "Murder During the Hundred Years' War: The Curious Case of William de Cantilupe" by Melissa Julian-Jones, which opens the same way ("In May 1375....") and with the same chapters that this video has, but the book has a list of all the main players at the front so it's a bit easier to keep them straight! Julian-Jones's book looks at loads of different angles to the case and also looks at the wider 14thC society to put things into context. It's a really complicated case that went on from 1375-1378!
@@cmrosens4643 sweet, thanks a LOT for that! Obviously I'll check out wiki (it's nearly 1am here in Scotland though so not right now, it's Monday tomorrow lol) but I really want to chase down that book. I've lived in this city for nearly 7yrs and although the main library is just 15min away from me and this city has good Universities (old too, one of them founded in 1495, another sometime in the 1700s if I remember right) I've still not got round to going to it since I've either been busy or just didn't have a reason any more but I absolutely have a reason now haha thanks again for that, I genuinely appreciate it 👍
@@teethgrinder83 Frederik Pedersen's book on Marriage Disputes in the Middle Ages might also be available, I know that he writes more on Nicholas and Katherine in there if you were interested in following that up!
Paynell is the other spelling - the one I've seen most in the sources about this. The case is from the book "Murder During the Hundred Years' War by Melissa Julian-Jones.
The weirdest case ive heard is one from the time where everyone had a big bible that you would pass down in generations , so maybe like 1600’s? Anyhow there was a woman who beat a man to death with her bible and she was pardoned because she used a bible to beat him to death , so to them its as if god partook in the murder and so that meant it was gods plan for him to die😂 I think she found him commiting adultery or something and she was tired of his shit
I think the mystery is whether or not the men who were hanged for it were really guilty of it, or if Maud just threw them under the bus. Frederik Pedersen is a historian whose translations of the sources are quoted in the video but I notice he's not mentioned in the description. He did a major study of this which is mostly paywalled academic articles BUT he's extensively quoted in the wikipedia article. I think it's possible to grab a PDF of his article where he did a study on Nicholas, William's brother, too. The video itself seems to be structured on the chapters of the only book on this case, "Murder During the Hundred Years' War" by Melissa Julian-Jones, and that book goes into way more detail than the video can in the timeframe, and challenges some of the traditional assumptions made, looks at the evidence we have, and suggests a lot of other ways this could have happened.
The author of the book this whole video is based on, ("Murder During the Hundred Years' War" by Melissa Julian-Jones) is running a workshop on this topic in February, it's on Eventbrite called "Medieval Murder: Goth Detectives" hosted by Romancing the Gothic project. It's a 2-day online workshop where you get source packs from this case, and you can fill in the gaps creatively, using the sources. It's aimed at creative writers of all genres, and people who are just interested in true crime and how you can make up your own mind based on the evidence, and how you can fill in the gaps.
if only his wife and william had the key then his squire broke in since he murdered him according to the tales. This is so house of the dragon "some say..."
@@look4lec this whole video is based on the book "Murder During the Hundred Years' War" by Melissa Julian-Jones, which goes into lots more detail about the case than the video could do in the time... It looks at what the testimony says happened and then at all the reasons why it might have happened. It is a shame the book hasn't been credited in the video description.
That's a really good question; the short answer is no, he probably had CAH - congenital adrenal hyperplasia, which is discussed in the book this video is based on, "Murder During The Hundred Years' War" by Melissa Julian-Jones (Pen & Sword Books, 2020). The major study on this was done by Frederik Pedersen, where he suggests Nicholas was intersex. There's a lot more info in there than the video can squeeze in, but Nicholas was deep-voiced and considered tall and 'manly', and definitely ID'd as a man, was accepted as a man - from the manner of his death and other symptoms, again discussed in the book. It talks about how intersex people were treated as well, and the medieval stigma around intersex conditions. Also it seems a lot of his relatives knew he had some physical differences: Katherine his wife reported that she was told by Nicholas's cousin Elizabeth, "My lady, I'll give you a penny if you ever have joy of your husband" (Pedersen's translation) and she never explained why. [Julian-Jones's book does warn that historians tend to pathologise when they talk about intersex conditions, and it also a transphobic/intersex-phobic ballad from the time that illustrates some of the stigma people faced, which is at the back and a warning is given.]
@@zeddisdead3239 Yes, so historians like Frederik Pedersen think he had CAH (congenital adrenal Hyperplasia) which wasn't understood at the time. Intersex people weren't officially killed for it, but just like today and the "trans panic" defence, people would be attacked and killed for their physical differences. The book that this whole video seems to be structured on is called "Murder During The Hundred Years' War" by Melissa Julian-Jones, and it goes into more detail on this topic to give some context to Nicholas. It's hard to strike a balance as Nicholas did go on to abuse Katherine to keep her from getting their marriage anulled, like threatening to chain her to a wall with leg irons if she didn't swear on the Bible what she'd told people about him wasn't true. Frederik Peterson also discusses Nicholas and Katherine in his book on Medieval Marriage - "Marriage Disputes in Medieval England".
Those feet at the .09 second mark- this is what happens when your shoes are too tight as a kid. My pinky toes went under my ring toes til I took taekwondo in my 20s.
Gotta feel bad for Nicholas. He was probably intersex, which would be miserable at just about any time in history- just because of prejudice. But still, a great, funny story.
His family, mother and servants, nanny, etc must have known....who bathed and changed the diapers when he was a child? Since, as you say, he was probably intersex.
@@flowermeerkat6827 exactly. There’s a fantastic book called Middlesex by Jeffrey Eugenides which is a fictional story about someone with this physiology. It’s a fantastic read, just as a piece of literature, and it is factually accurate as far as it’s portrayal of what it is and how it’s historically been handled. I highly recommend it.
He was almost certainly intersex, and one theory is that he had congenital adrenal hyperplasia. Frederik Pedersen did all the research on Nicholas's annulment case, and suggested this as a diagnosis. This video seems to be structured from the book "Murder During the Hundred Years' War: the Curious Case of William de Cantilupe" by Melissa Julian-Jones, who I notice isn't credited in the video description, although this is the only book on this case and it was published in 2020. I say this because its chapters are basically the same as the chapters in that book, and the phrasing of the opening matches the opening phrases of the book, rather than the Wikipedia article where you'll find Pedersen et al referenced, and Julian-Jones in "Further Reading".
@@valeriemarott1923 Yes for sure. Frederik Pedersen is the one who did all the major research on this [Nicholas and his annulment], his book "Marriage Disputes in Medieval England" has a lot more info, as does the book "Murder During the Hundred Years' War" by Melissa Julian-Jones.
This is a really good question, and it's covered in the book this video is based on, "Murder During the Hundred Years' War" by Melissa Julian-Jones and also by Frederik Pedersen in his book on Medieval Marriage! ("Marriage disputes in medieval England"). The reason we don't think Nicholas was a woman is mainly bc Katherine never describes female genitalia - she would know what that was like - and that's not what she accuses him of. Also, other symptoms Nicholas exhibits, which can be guessed at from the source material, implies that he may have had CAH (Congenital Adrenal Hyperplasia). Pedersen has a few academic articles about this, but Julian-Jones's book is for a general audience and sets these arguments out (fully cited) along with context for the stigma of being intersex in the middle ages.
@@cmrosens4643 very interesting. He definitely had some condition. Cause even if he was very gay he'd get an erection at one point or another. And she would've seen it, but she didn't
@@Shinobi33 Pedersen's study talks a lot about this, and gives his reasons for thinking it was CAH. Julian-Jones's book cites Pedersen and she doesn't dispute this but does caution that it's hard to do retrospective diagnoses on historical figures with the limited evidence we have, and the fact Nicholas repeatedly refused a physical exam.
It's odd how the video has certain mistakes even as they're copying books on the matter Example: Nicholas was not accused of having a "tiny pinis" as the video says, but of having _no_ penis.
I have these books of court records from the mid1500s England and they are bursting full of stories of murder, arson, riots and just strange stuff that leaves me burning with questions. For example these 2 women kept burning each other’s barns down and I really want to know what started the feud.Another account is a woman who was charged with snatching a man’s beard half off while beating the man with a leg of mutton - again, what was THAT all about?? Why a leg of mutton?
are these mass produced books? and if so what are they called?
I found my books on Amazon - they aren’t mass printed but they can be found. The title of the best one is called “Elizabethan Life - Disorder” by FG Emmison. The second is “Morals and the Church Courts” by FG Emmison as well.
Question is Why not a leg of mutton? it's a blunt tool , probably goes back to our proto human ancestors who used anything as a weapon including the "Long bone" the Femur to club someone over the head , it'll do the trick same as a leg of mutton.
I'd like to think that the bearded man insulted her cooking of the mutton. This would justify the snatching of his beard and the beating.
Most likely the leg of mutton was just her grabbing whatever came to hand, rather than a specific choice.
Probably the first and possibly only time the words “tiny penis” have been used to describe a mysterious historical death.
And Cantaloupe in the same phrase.
Small units were all the rage back in ancient Greek and Rome .
It figures I have to live in the if it ain't 2 ft long I don't want it era
@@josephsmith6777 😅😂🤣
@@josephsmith6777 only two feet?
@@capt.bart.roberts4975 idk 🤷♂️ 6 inches is big in my world
I love the intro music along with the wind and the flags blowing! And then it leads into that pretty song. You do the music so well. It doesn’t drown out your voice. It’s exactly what it’s supposed to be. BACKGROUND music. Some videos have the music so loud that I have a hard time hearing the narrator. Practically blows my eardrums out with headphones on!
So basically the people who had a motive were let go but the poor chefs and servants who probably did nothing were hung drawn and quartered…. Damn
Yup. The ruling class always finds ways to scapegoat innocent working class people in order to avoid responsibility and consequences for their heinous actions. It's a tale as old as class-based society.
Since the dawn of civilization, the law don’t mean squat if you’ve got the right money or the right friends.
Just drawn to the place of execution (a form of humiliation, as in drawn there on a cart) and hanged, not quartered though! The details are all in the book this video is based on, "Murder During the Hundred Years' War" by Melissa Julian-Jones
@@YouknowwhereHughgo ooh I would also say that in the book, it looks at whether the servants DID have motive, and if it was a case of community justice for a crime William had committed either domestic violence against his wife or the assault of Agatha the maid, none of which is provable, but also neither is the idea Maud and Sheriff Thomas were having an affair. There is no evidence they even met before the trial, so the fact he married her afterwards could have been because he saw a widow no one else would touch, and he wanted to (a) protect her and have a mother for his young son who was 10 at the time, Thomas was a widower, or (b) he saw a chance to get ahead socially and swooped in when she was vulnerable. We just don't know! For her sake I really really hope it was option a if that was the case... but she outlived him too and got married off to husband number 3, a very ambitious younger man that Ralph Paynell supported. Ralph seems to have controlled Maud a bit in that sense like the way a father would a daughter, arranging her life for her. That is mentioned in the book but not a lot of detail.
@@gwynbleidd1917 Yep, loads of historians think the same thing, Frederik Pedersen for example is quoted in this video but not referenced in the description. He thinks it's really likely Maud was in on it, and so was Ralph Paynell and Thomas Kydale. He's following Rosamund Sillem's opinions there, she's the first person to rediscover this case in the 1930s!
In the book "Murder During the Hundred Years' War" by Melissa Julian-Jones, there are lots of other angles to the case that get looked at as well, like the servants themselves who often get ignored or written off as victims of the elite or paid thugs, but there's evidence that they were a close knit group. So something never considered (except in this book) is what if the servants are exacting their own revenge against William for something he had done to them, or to Agatha the maid? Given that Maud didn't have children and the stigma around his brother Nicholas, William was living in a county where people knew all about what had gone on with his brother, and now here he was, with no kids of his own etc... and Agatha was the only other woman in the household. So is this a situation of communal justice exacted on a man that the servants know they can't take to court? We won't ever know for sure. The author of that book is giving an online workshop in Feb 2025 where you can come along and get a source pack (translated into English from the Latin) and come up with your own creative response to the case, and decide for yourself what happened, or pick the motives you find most likely. It's mainly aimed at creative writers wanting to work with real historical source material, but anyone can come along for interest. It's called "Medieval Murder: Goth Detectives" and it's run by the Romancing the Gothic project, sign ups via Eventbrite.
Love this channel. An ancient murder is right up my alley ❤
With that tiny penis it isn’t!
@@marianneegland5576 yes indeed get you a Lil history and murder that's the combo that means you got channel thumbs up and subscribe wr all in it the older the bettef
You'd love the book this video is based on then: it's "Murder During the Hundred Years' War" by Melissa Julian-Jones (Pen & Sword Books, 2020). That's the only book-length treatment of this case, and this video uses the material in the book and condenses it for the time limit. The book also has a lot more info about other murders for comparison, and looks at 14thC society more widely. There are other wild cases mentioned there, too.
Why isn't "Murder During the Hundred Years' War : The Curious Case of William de Cantilupe" by Melissa Julian-Jones cited in the description? Seems a bit unfair to the author who spent the time writing and researching the book and this topic.
Exactly! Have had the pleasure of learning about this from the author herself, sad to see her NOT credited in this video, without her book I doubt people would even know about this case
So what I'm thinking is they got the initial content from the Wikipedia page that naturally heavily cites Pedersen and Sillem (also not credited) but the structure of the book and some of its phrasing like "In May 1375..." reflects the book itself and is uncomfortably close to this. The wiki page has this book under "Further Reading" and cites the studies done by other academics, but the wiki page should be signposted here too, as they've also quoted Pedersen's translations of the sources exactly without citation.
Is he claiming that this is his research though? No? Then it's all okay. You're confusing someone's video, that they made,as a hobby, because they have an interest in history with a professional historian presenting a documentary.... Which I don't know how you would get that mixed up, but I'm glad I clarified that for you.
@@gobbo1917youtubers shouldnt have plagiarism standards, but they dont claim to actually know or do anything!
Thats you. Thats what you sound like
@@cmrosens4643I thought I heard him mention Pedersen…
I'm thinking of an old English poem called "Twa Corbies." It's told from the perspective of two crows eying a dead knight's body and picking out the choicest bits. It was written in Chaucer's time, if not written by Chaucer himself.
I always thought Twa Corbies was a traditional Scottish poem , certainly the Scottish language used would back that up , but I may have been wrong .
@@alanthomson1227 It is Scottish. I thought it was written in Old English. My bad. I got the plot right at least. Two ravens sitting on a branch over looking a dead knight, and they're picking out the best bits.
@@heathermauldin4951 thanks .
Sounds interesting
This one? Definitely Scottish Trad.
"As I was walking all alane,
I heard twa corbies making a mane;
The tane unto the t’other say,
‘Where sall we gang and dine to-day?’ "
Interestingly, there's a pub in Glasgow called The Twa Corbies.
his wife and staff colluded in his murder - makes me think he was not a nice bloke...
Or maybe it was the wife and staff who weren't nice. Murderers usually aren't.
What a bizarre takeaway
@@loserinasuit7880 only bizarre if you can't imagine it... and if you can't imagine it then that's your bad i would say
I would imagine there was some type of "short man syndrome" type of complex, but amplified to the nth degree
@@CarlinConnolly the author of the book this whole video is based on goes into a lot more detail about motive and possible reasons for the servants acting in this way, including community justice for a crime William committed against them or his wife that they couldn't get legal support for since he was sitting on the eyre court and he was in a position of power over them. The book is called Murder During the Hundred Years' War by Melissa Julian-Jones and the author is doing a workshop online in Feb with the Romancing the Gothic project! So if you want to have some fun over 2 days working out how you might plug the gaps in the evidence creatively, you can come along to that, it is on Eventbrite under the events "Romancing the Gothic" are running. The workshop event is called "Medieval Murder: Goth Detectives"
I enjoyed this and the graphics are especially good! But I'm glad there isn't a quiz at the end!😉That's a lot of information for a short video. (Now I'll read the transcript to sort some things out.) A fascinating story!
This whole video is based on a book called "Murder During the Hundred Years' War" by Melissa Julian-Jones and I'm really sad they didn't credit this properly in the description - the book has all the sources cited and an appendix of extra material! EDIT: the video *structure* mirrors the book structure, and the phrasing at the start is how the book opens - I'd recommend that as the starting point, but also Frederik Pedersen's work on this case too, he was the first to do a major study on it but his articles are in academic journals and some are paywalled. His book "Marriage Disputes in Medieval England" is the most accessible I think, and you'll find Nicholas and Katherine's case discussed in there!
The moment I heard "John of Gaunt" I thought : could it be the guy who uttered the "This sceptred Isle, this happy breed" speech in Richard II by Will Sh?
Turns out I was right. Richard II is one of my favourite plays. Very poetic.
It is indeed THAT John of Gaunt! The video is based on the book "Murder During the Hundred Years' War" by Melissa Julian-Jones, which has more information than can be squeezed into this video's timeframe
@@cmrosens4643are you by any chance Melissa?
@@chilibeer3912 😂😂 the video lifts details and the order of phrasing from the book on pp 3-4 which I emailed them some screenshots of, with a direct quote from the wikipedia article in the middle that references Pedersen and Bellamy and that's also where the note on John of Gaunt is from. The transcript mangles Frederik Pedersen's name so badly while quoting him, even though he was the one who did the first major study, I think both the book and Pedersen ought to be properly cited in the video description, or at least a link put in to the wiki article that extensively quotes him (that is where the Bellamy quote comes from too). Pedersen doesn't delve too deeply into the background of William in terms of context, as his are article length treatments, and he has a particular focus, so you won't find too much on John of Gaunt there I don't think?? The book goes into more detail but John of Gaunt isn't a major player.
I just discovered your channel new subscriber now
Medieval intrigue and murder at the manor. I love it.
You might also love the book this is based on - "Murder During the Hundred Years' War" by Melissa Julian-Jones. It's the full book treatment of this case aimed at a general audience, and it's got the full list of players in the front to make it a bit easier to keep all the names straight and who they all were! It's a shame they didn't cite this in the video description when they put the video up, as it looks like the whole video is basically from that book (but obviously condensed).
Ooh also, Frederik Pedersen's work on this is really good. He's quoted extensively in the wiki article about this case and his book "Marriage Disputes in medieval England" talks more about Nicholas and Katherine and their issues!! Recommend.
When you started off by listing all the things involved in this story I figured at least some of them would only be tangential and were thrown in for humour, but nope, all relevant.
The book this video is based on is "Murder During the Hundred Years' War" by Melissa Julian-Jones and it's not credited in the video description at all, but that's got loads more info in it as well. It's such a wild ride. The video packs as much in as possible in the time, but the book has all the source material, an appendix of extra tangential stuff, and comparative cases too. Lots of murders, but this one as the central case it looks at. It's also the only book-length treatment on this case! I'm really sad they didn't cite it, as the video literally uses the chapters and everything pretty much beat for beat... :(
Tough times back in the day. I wouldn't do well.
Cheers it's Friday! See you next week!
If anyone ever tells you size does not matter, just share this link...
I suddenly feel much better about my junk.
lol
Comfort watching. Great!
Agreed
My comment disappeared from last night, weird. This whole video is based on the book "Murder During the Hundred Years' War" by Melissa Julian-Jones, and the writer of this video is credited as Lisa E Rawcliffe only, but the material seems to be structured around the book Julian-Jones wrote. So she and her book need to be credited in the video description too please. If you've used the wikipedia article for the details and content, then the quotes you've used come directly from Frederik Pedersen, and he should also be cited. You'll find Julian-Jones's work there in "Further Reading" and what bothers me is the opening phrase of the video and the structure of the video, which mirrors the structure of Julian-Jones's book. This opens with "In May 1375..." in Chapter 1: Discovery of a Body. This phrasing and structure isn't from the wikipedia page, but people should also be directed there, because that gives a load of really good info and source material.
In utter tears
That's the Nerdiest comment I've ever read 😂😂
I think when you make a video out of a book , script writer gets the credit for summarising down the whole content. That's what content creator think. But source material should also be mentioned for more enthusiasts.
@@paurushbhatnagar8100 yeah there were people in the comments asking for sources and it is also becoming more of an issue with students who quote podcasts and yt channels in essays ... they get downgraded for that where we are, because it isn't a secondary source and there is no citation to corroborate anything they say. I have had students ask me about using UA-cam channels as sources in essays and im like. No. You will lose marks for that. I find it really strange that content creators don't just list sources in the video description! Like if it isn't copyrighted material then ok I see it, but it just feels weird to me.
Wild that I know the person who dug up all the research on this case, who literally wrote the book on it years ago, and is the only person to have written properly on it and yet she gets no mention in this video.
Wild
Really annoying how people are just unable to give credit nowadays, tempted to give a thumbs down for this 😡
@@MindMouthSoul like it is a decent video but just can we credit the researcher and person who wrote it all up so that people could access the story to start with???? 😭😭😭 But even the Wiki article isn't referenced here. Like, the content may have been from wikipedia, but the phrasing of the opening and the whole structure of the video mirrors Julian-Jones's book?? It starts with Chapter 1: Discovery of a Body and opens "In May 1375..." but the wikipedia article doesn't do that, and isn't structured in the same way. That's why I think this was based on the book, because of the video structure.
@@cmrosens4643 exactly!
Just to say, Rosamund Sillem was the first to rediscover this case in the 1930s, and Frederik Pedersen then did the next major study on it (or first after Sillem), as he got into the case I think by way of Nicholas and Katherine's marriage and its annulment in the ecclesiastical court rolls (York). Pedersen was the first to suggest that Nicholas was intersex, and that he may have had CAH. Julian-Jones discovered the case through the Lincolnshire Eyre Rolls (Sillem's edition and introduction) and Pedersen, and then put the book together based on the original sources, these secondary studies, and the contextualisation of the 14thC society the murder happened in. Hers is the only *book-length* treatment, but Pedersen is the first major academic study. His articles are extensively quoted in the wikipedia article, along with the much briefer treatment of the case by Paul Strohm in the 1990s.
Sillem's discussions (1936?) appear only in the introduction to her edition of the Lincolnshire Eyre Rolls, and was picked up by Cam in his contemporary review of this edition. He basically agreed with her assumption / suggestion (based on no evidence) that Maud was having an affair with the sheriff, which is what Julian-Jones critiques in the book, and I think is the only person to do so.
Pedersen also follows Sillem, as does C. Rawcliffe and others. Nobody else has really looked at the servants' dynamics and so on; that's where Julian-Jones diverges, and her book looks at alternative motives that others had not considered!
It would seem that this video follows the structure of Julian-Jones's book which opens with Chapter 1: The Discovery of the Body > > going through to the arrests, the motivations, and so on, and the trial and aftermath last. The book opens "In May 1375..." - and sets out the next steps after the discovery of the body, like the video does (and the wiki article does not, that I can see?). This detail is certainly from the book, and way that the video summarises the case seems to come from Julian-Jones's introduction, or mirror that very closely, rather than the wiki article.
I think it would be a good idea to at least reference the wikipedia article, because Frederik's work is so heavily used, and Julian-Jones's book because of the structural similarities and some of the phrasing.
I didn’t have any murder cases discussed in my history classes.
Not even Lincoln or JFK assassination?
@@notsure1198 I guess Lincoln but don’t recall what the said. JFK was after my high school years.
I had a terrible book we read in my home lang class though, about the Spanish inquisition, and a woman burned at the stake. I wanted to cry and vomit, can't believe they had us read that 😢😳😡
@@rsamom Are you arguing that the enemies of Christ deserve mercy?
@@crispincoque bro what 😂 every human deserves mercy. Jesus wasn't cool with killing anyone even his dissenters.
“ In the name of the Rose “is the only who done it film set in the mid ages I can think of
Cadfael? Isn’t that series set in medieval time?
@@Bambisgf77Yes, it is.
so you didn't read about any english kings? something the VIII whats's his face maybe?
Such a Great movie
@@frankjamesbonarrigo7162 same I can't think of another medieval whodunit film... the film and TV rights for this story sit with Pen & Sword Books who published the book that this whole video is based on, "Murder During the Hundred Years' War" by Melissa Julian-Jones in 2020
Love the guy's last name, de Cantilupe. For some reason, I'm craving fruit right now, maybe some melons with a light orange colored inside.😋😄
Cantaloupe is from Cantalupo, which means "song of the wolf." (Just some FYI)
Cantilupe? Your not suprised by the name of Painel ? 😅
@@Gonefishing6572 In the sources it is more commonly spelled Paynell, and Ralph Paynell was elected sheriff of Lincolnshire 2 or 3 times! There is more info about him in the book this whole video is based on, "Murder During the Hundred Years' War" by Melissa Julian-Jones. You will find all the names in the case written at the front of the book which makes it easier to follow them all and keep them all straight!
@@rotterred991 it is indeed, the author of the book that this is based on (Murder During the Hundred Years' War by Melissa Julian-Jones) did her PhD thesis on the Cantilupes!
So happy to have discovered this wonderful channel. Love the middle ages. Thank you for the content ❤
This video is based on the book "Murder During the Hundred Years' War" by Melissa Julian-Jones - she's not cited in the video description yet but I know she's reached out to have that rectified. This one is such a fascinating case, and it deserves wider consideration!
'No copyright infringement intended' is a hollow sentiment when you both structure your video off of a book and refuse to credit its author. To the viewers who enjoyed the subject, please consider picking up Murder During the Hundred Years' War by Dr. Melissa Julian-Jones. She's also running an interactive course based on this case February 2025 which you can find on Eventbrite under the title Medieval Murder: Goth Detectives.
Welcome to YT 😂
Also… read the description
Nice video, thanks for the upload!
I love these presentations. I had to view it twice to keep most of the players straight in my mind in this scandalous scandal. Another you-can't-make-this-stuff-up slice of history deftly told... didn't Peter Sellars try to make a movie about this?😆
This video is based on the book "Murder During the Hundred Years' War" by Melissa Julian-Jones, and it's sad that they haven't yet put this in the video description to credit the author's work, but the book has a ton of fun info and additional stuff, and a lot of sources cited. Keeping the players straight is tough but the book has a list of them in the front to help out!!
@@cmrosens4643 Thank you! I love this kind of informational enrichment.
@@emilien. I'd also say that Frederik Pedersen is the first major study of the case (he's written a lot of articles on it, and mainly about Nicholas's drama with Katherine). So if that's the angle that interests you, definitely check out Pedersen's book "Marriage Disputes in Medieval England" as a lot of the quotes from this video come from Pedersen's translations of the sources directly. You can find a lot of them in the wikipedia article about this case, and of course Julian-Jones's book references these as well, and cites Pedersen a lot, but also questions the traditional assumptions of historians since the 1930s that it's Maud + the Sheriff whodunit.
Imagine not being able to continue your bloodline for that reason of all reasons oof.
As flat as the back of her hand. Dang. I wonder what happened there?
Maybe she married a woman 😸😊
Hermaphroditic?
Yup, probably what we’d call intersex now, or hermaphrodite.
It's discussed more in the book this video is based on, which is "Murder During the Hundred Years' War" by Melissa Julian-Jones - it's very likely that Nicholas was intersex, and some historians think he had congenital adrenal hyperplasia [CAH]. This is Frederik Pedersen's suggestion and his work is cited in the wiki article of this case, you can read more about it in his book "Marriage Disputes in Medieval England". There's a lot more in Julian-Jones book than the video can squeeze into the timeframe, so it's a real shame the book isn't (as of now) cited in the video description. If they just reached out to the author she'd let them keep the video up if they cited her. :/ It would be good to cite Pedersen too or at least the wiki article?
Interesting story but I know that your William was not the husband of Maud Neville d.1438 daughter of Ralph Neville, 1st Earl of Westmoreland c. 1364-1425. It is documented that Maud’s husband is Peter Mauley, 5th Baron Mauley c. 1378-1415. Ralph Neville is my direct ancestor. I have studied a lot about his family.
Wikipedia has her as daughter of “Sir Philip Nevil of Scotton”
Maud was most likely the daughter of Philip Neville of Scotton, a cadet line of the Neville family. This is in the book that this is based on, "Murder During the Hundred Years' War" by Melissa Julian-Jones, which is the only book-length treatment of this murder case, and came out with Pen & Sword Books in 2020. This video doesn't credit the author or the book in the description that I can see (at the time of this comment), but you find more info on the Scotton nobility in here! The cadet line of the Nevilles aren't mentioned in great detail though so possibly not of great interest to you from this perspective.
This video hasn’t cited the actual author Melissa Julian Jones - can the owners of this channel please cite her - as this is plagiarising someone’s actual book
So what I suspect is that the Wikipedia article which cites Pedersen's study and Sillem's work a lot (and has Julian-Jones's book as Further Reading) is the basis for the content, but what's happened here is that the phrasing and the way they've set out the video chapters echoes Julian-Jones's book. "In May 1375..." is not a phrase taken from the wiki article that I can see, but it is a phrase taken from Julian-Jones's book, and it's how the book opens - with the discovery of the body. The book then goes on to look at things in roughly the same order that the video does, and that bothers me a lot, as you can totally use the Wiki article as the basis for the content (BUT YOU SHOULD CITE IT SOMEWHERE, or AT LEAST cite Pedersen's work and Sillem's too) but it's the structure and phrasing that echo the Julian-Jones book that strike me as flying quite close to the wind here. If it's purely using the wiki article and Pedersen quotations, then they need to reference Frederik's work, as he's the one who translated those quotes. Julian-Jones cites Pedersen, Carol Rawcliffe, Sillem, and others, and is the only mainstream book-length treatment of this case. Pedersen got into it via Nicholas and Katherine's anullment case in the Ecclesiastical Court records, I think, and his book "Marriage Disputes in Medieval England" should also be referenced, or at least his work as it is cited in the wiki article, as the original source quotes are all his translations. Julian-Jones did look at the original material and transcribed/translated some herself as well, but the video seems to use Pedersen's quotations without citation also.
Call Cadfael. 😎
Love your content and your lovely English accent.
"This is fine" 💭
Can't even 😂
it was the dude that married the widow mentioned at the end...... that is why she ran off as soon as he died and didn't tell anyone she was leaving....her lover killed him, they layed low a little bit then married......POOR MR. COOK and that other guy that hung for it.
And the justice system still works the same way to this day
Dang she said "I want babies"🤬 I will say why she didnt just speak with her husband about taking a low-key lover. Then again, people were often absolutely ridiculous to women of all ages so I can't blame her for feeling murder was the only option.
There are some other suggestions regarding motive in the book this video is structured on - "Murder During the Hundred Years' War" by Melissa Julian-Jones. The author isn't credited in the video (at the time of this comment) but the video doesn't pack in all the info and the suggestions for motive that are in the book! There's a lot of stuff that digs into things like domestic violence and community justice, with comparative cases and even some other cases that were similar, where lords were offed by their wives and servants. So there's possibly a lot more to the case than Maud wanting a lover or kids. She actually never had any, and got through 3 husbands!
Thank you. Enjoyed.
Wow this was fascinating! Would love to hear you do a medieval horror story for Halloween. Also just that he was named de Cantaloupe is amazing.
The de Cantilupes were a family who came over to England after the Conquest, their name means "singing wolves" and is from a small village called chantiloup (but we're not sure which one!) This video is based on the book "Murder During the Hundred Years' War" by Melissa Julian-Jones, which came out with Pen & Sword Books in 2020, but she's not credited here (at the time this comment was written). But the book has a load more stuff that isn't in the video!
Ooh I'd also say if you liked this, check out Frederik Pedersen's work on it too. Frederik isn't cited in this video either, but he did a major study on this case and although those articles are in academic journals and some are paywalled, he's extensively quoted in the wikipedia article. Julian-Jones is cited in that article under "Further Reading", although looking at it I think a couple of the statements as yet uncited in the wiki article also come from her book, but would have to check that before editing.
@@cmrosens4643 lol so the melons were named for them???
"No copyright infringement intended" but you can't credit the author who wrote the book about this obscure murder where you got all your information from, "Murder During the Hundred Year War: The Curious Case of Sir William Cantilupe" by Melissa Julian-Jones??
Really poor form, easy to remedy though...
Yeah, so it looks like the structure of the video mirrors the book, right? Chapter 1: Discovery of a Body, etc. That's not the way the wikipedia page is structured. But also Frederik Pedersen wrote the first major study on this and his quotations are used in the video which are on Wikipedia, and also quoted (and cited) by Julian-Jones. It would be good if Frederik was acknowledged too, or at least the wiki article? Julian-Jones is listed on that page in "Further Reading".
@@cmrosens4643 it's not that hard to put the names of the original researcher(s) in the video description
Eye editing, absolutely on point! 😂
I started off just listening, but when I saw the art you get an A+.
Okay, it's genius.
Good video.
I love your voice!
Excellent narrating
Excellent channel
I like the arrest of everyone. Of course everyone knew about the murder
100% everyone in the household knew. In the book this based on, "Murder During the Hundred Years' War" by Melissa Julian-Jones, there is more info than they can squeeze into the video's timeframe, but it explores lots of possible motives which we don't have recorded! The book also goes into much more detail about 14thC society and servant life, and uses that context to work out what the different motives could have been. Ultimately though it's up to us to make our own minds up as there are some things we'll never know for sure.
I love the image at 6:30. Where is it from?
There's a Maud Neville - I'm sure! - involved in another mediæval murder story: that of my namesake (no relation!) Sir Christopher Talbot. But that was about 70 years later. The Nevilles were a very powerful Northern family. Richard Neville, the Earl of Warwick, was known as "the Kingmaker" during the Wars of the Roses. This Maud was the wife of John, First Earl of Shrewsbury, who was Marshall (?) of France. Sir Christopher his son was champion jouster of England, and a kind of Sheriff for South Yorkshire and North Nottinghamshire, where the Talbot family had large estates. Sir Christopher, however, was based in Cause Castle - ten miles west of Shrewsbury and guarding one of the main routes on the Welsh border. He was murdered with a lance through the heart at this location by a Welsh knight in his employ called Sir Gryffyth Vaughn (who went into hiding and was himself summarily killed in revenge). The Earl had two wives, the second of which - perhaps Maud - bore Sir Chris and later died in childbirth. She was buried at Worksop Priory, an establishment partially saved from the criminal ravages of Henry VIII by the sixth (?) Earl. Also buried there was John's eldest son, the Second Earl, who was killed at the battle of Northampton. I have not found Sir Christopher's resting place yet: it might be Worksop or Sheffield. There might also be a York-Lancaster angle to the murder, longvbefore the outbreak of hostilities, as Sir Gryffyth is alleged to have been a Yorkist. I'm pretty sure Maud was John's second wife. John is buried in Whitchurch.
@@christophertalbot9488 that's fascinating! This whole video is based on the book "Murder During the Hundred Years' War" by Melissa Julian-Jones and it doesn't mention this case you've talked about, but it does compare the case in the video with others from around the time, and looks at other cases where the Lord was killed in an apparent collaboration between servants and wife. The author actually did her thesis on the Corbets of Caus Castle 1100-1300 and the Cantilupe family! So that's a fun connection to your case, too.
FLAT!
The hung part of hung drawn and quartered doesnt result in death! :) that doesnt come till the end!
They weren't hung drawn *and* quartered I think??? Just drawn to the place of execution and hanged? The details are in the book "Murder During the Hundred Years' War" by Melissa Julian-Jones, possible I'm misremembering but I'm pretty sure they were just hanged.... the book came out in 2020 with Pen & Sword Books. Cook and Gyse were almost certainly thrown under the bus whatever happened, as Sheriff Thomas and the Eyre court didn't originally seem to think it was these 2 at all. This is based on Maud's testimony, and we don't know how far this is trustworthy. It could have been 100% true and what happened, but it could be that they literally drew straws and Gyse and Cooke went down for everyone, or it could be that Maud by herself threw them to the court for her own reasons.
@@cmrosens4643 asdasdsa
zxcfdfdsfdsfdsf
William didn't make the cut😂
I clicked, I found myself chanting “please no AI, please no AI…”
Upon reflection, I wonder who tf I was talking to being an atheist and whatnot 🤷🏻♂️
No worries, love. This is a safe channel. I hate AI and it sucks when I get tricked.
Thankfully this is one of those OG channels that has been making history content for a few years now, way before the AI video trend/plague started
Ahahaha God bless you!
@@jonahs4819 they would absolutely never ever try using AI, they’re better than 💜
Could we have source references pse in future videos, for those of us hungry for more details? Thx.
This whole video is based on the book "Murder During the Hundred Years' War" by Melissa Julian-Jones which has full sources and an appendix - the eBook is about £4.99 and it's out with Pen & Sword Books. You could probably also order from your library!
For sources on this - Frederik Pedersen is the historian who did the first major study on this case and in particular on Nicholas's annulment drama with Katherine Paynell, and although I think a lot of his work is in academic journals so therefore paywalled, check out "Marriage Disputes in Medieval England". You might find a lot of his work cited in the wikipedia article on this case as a starter for ten, and that also cites the work of Rosamund Sillem who was the first person to re-discover William's murder case in the 1930s! She was translating the Lincolnshire Eyre Rolls (court records from the 14thC) and came across it. Sillem wrote about it at length in her introduction to the rolls, and it was Sillem who decided Maud was guilty and having an affair with the sheriff. She didn't have any evidence for that, but since then, almost everyone follows Sillem in assuming that this was true.
You'll find a lot of the content from the video referenced in the wikipedia article, but again, the structure of the video and its chapters seems to follow the Julian-Jones book, "Murder During the Hundred Years' War" which opens with "In May 1375..." in Chapter 1: Discovery of a Body, and goes on to discuss the role of the coroner and the sheriff, then moves on to the arrests and gives more details there, and also discusses the layout of the manor and so on. There are a lot more details and context in that book.
I’d have been questioning how my wife didn’t think my ‘hobnob’ was normal sized ? 😂
This would be a good movie get Johnny Depp
@@nightwolf1982 TV and film rights belong to Pen & Sword Books, as this whole video is based on a book they published in 2020 called "Murder During the Hundred Years' War: The Curious Case of William de Cantilupe" by Melissa Julian-Jones, so that's who to call to make the movie happen 😂😂
Bro good video I’m knew here and I just left like there was too many names I found quite hard to follow. Just giving my thoughts
The whole video is based on the book "Murder During the Hundred Years' War" by Melissa Julian-Jones, and the book has a list of all the names in the front so it's easier to look them up and follow. It's pretty cheap (the eBook is £4.99 I think) and you could probably get it from your library or ask them to order it in! That's an easier way to keep all the names straight, as the case is really complex... so many people... I'm sad that they didn't credit the book/author in this video or the description. She's the only person to have written a book on this case, and the video follows it beat for beat. :( But it's worth a look.
Slight correction to the conclusion after that wild ride: It wasn't his death that ended his family line. It was his lack of "equipment"
We gonna give you props cause the old history that mean you dig into old history you research
Look we gwan tell you'll one more time I have no channel I'm not a you tuber I see I got four subs lol we just comment we not you tubers we have no channel we have jobs good lawd how many times we gonna say it I hVe no channel lol duh
We be sitting here holding at a nursing home parents are sleep and oh he'll yeah we have to stay up that's when we dissects the bs mmm my. My lol
This video is based on the book "Murder During the Hundred Years' War" by Melissa Julian-Jones - this has all the sources, and the video follows the book's chapters beat for beat. It's the author of the book who did all the history research but she's not credited in the video's description unfortunately... :((( (not at the time of this comment) EDIT: also check the wikipedia article, as Frederik Pedersen's work should be credited in the video as well, he did the first major study on the case which he got into via Nicholas and Katherine's drama. I think a lot of the quotes in this are from the wiki article which are Pedersen's translations, or Rosamund Sillem's. Julian-Jones's book references these and a load of historians, and original source material.
maybe william had the same problem, so maude wanted him gone.
Sure sounds like the wrong ones got away!! Thx :)
@@ShakesSphere I know right?? This whole video is based on the book "Murder During the Hundred Years' War" by Melissa Julian-Jones (Pen and Sword Books 2020) and there is so much more info there than the video can squeeze in, so it is a shame they didn't credit the book in the video description at least. BUT in the book, there are a lot of different motives explored as we will never know the "why" for sure, and if we don't know why, we can't for sure say "who". The gaps in the sources are just as interesting as what we do know! The author is actually doing a 2 day creative workshop on this very case in Feb 2025 with the Romancing the Gothic project, where you get source packs to read and keep, and you can work with the historical material (translated for you into English) and fill in the gaps yourself. It is aimed at creative writers mainly who want to work with real history, but open to everyone who just likes to tell a good tale or listen to other people's interpretations of the evidence! You can get tickets on Eventbrite, it is an event listed by "Romancing the Gothic" and it is called Medieval Murder: Goth Detectives. Should be really fun.
@cmrosens4643 wow, thank you for sharing all about that!! I'm DEFINITELY looking into this!! Thanks so much! Cheers and be well! ...Till next! :)
@@ShakesSphere I'd also recommend the wiki article as I'd be remiss not to point out that Frederik Pedersen did a major study on this case in article form, and also recommend his book "Marriage Disputes in Medieval England" as the most accessible and not paywalled thing he's done, where you can read more about Nicholas and Katherine's marriage and annulment case. The wikipedia article has Julian-Jones's book in "Further Reading", and it also cites Pedersen and Rosamund Sillem who was the very first person to rediscover this case in the Lincolnshire eyre rolls!
Had this on for background noise then at 0:48 I just had to stop writing my essay and come back to the tab cause wat?!
@@dabestyoutube5433 the video is based on the book "Murder During the Hundred Years' War" by Melissa Julian-Jones and there are a load more details in there that the video couldn't squeeze in for running time..... the author is even doing a 2 day workshop on this case in Feb, all online, so if you want more go check out the book or the "Romancing the Gothic" project on Eventbrite, the event is called Medieval Murder: Goth Detectives.
I would also say that another major study they don't cite in the video is Frederik Pedersen, and you can read loads more about Nicholas and Katherine in his studies of this and the case. The most accessible one is "Marriage Disputes in Medieval England" but he also wrote an article where he sets out his retrospective diagnosis hypothesis for Nicholas de Cantilupe, suggesting he may have had CAH (Congenital Adrenal Hyperplasia). I think that this video takes a lot from Pedersen's studies as these are cited in the wikipedia page for this murder case, where Julian-Jones's book is cited in "Further Reading", but the structure of the video seems to follow Julian-Jones book which opens with Chapter 1: The Discovery of a Body, and talks about the coroner's role and the sheriff, then proceeds to discuss the different aspects of the case through to the Trial and its Aftermath which is the last chapter of the book. You can find more info from Pedersen and some pointers on where to find out more about all that in the wikipedia article, and full citations and references in the Julian-Jones book too.
@@cmrosens4643 I do not care I just wanted to make a funny comment
@@dabestyoutube5433 ah apologies fair enough
Not much has changed in the legal system
6:40 Oof
Please make playlists so we can just have something to watch and not have to keep restarting videos please please please more playlists
I don't think the medievals know what the meaning of petty is. I can only imagine the horror awaiting a guilty person for very serious treason. Shudder
It's the same! "Petty treason" in medieval English law means more like 'lesser treason'. Treason against the king as a crime was developed out of the idea that the man was the head of the household, and the king derived his power *from this basic idea*, not the other way around. So petty treason was applied to when a wife murdered her husband or a servant their lord & master, but when a man killed his wife, that was the crime of homicide, not "treason" of any type. He would still be hanged for that, but not drawn on a cart in humiliation and hanged (petty treason penalty). A woman = hanged for murder but burned alive for petty treason... This is all discussed more in the book this video seems to be structured around, "Murder During the Hundred Years' War" by Melissa Julian-Jones (Pen&Sword Books 2020) and it has loads more murder cases and comparisons to this one. This video quotes some of that book, and the book's source material and the translations of the sources the book uses. EDIT: I'd recommend reading Frederik Pedersen's work on this case as well, he did the first major study on it and is quoted extensively in the wikipedia article. This video also uses Pedersen's quotes.
Why isnt the book by Melissa Julian-Jones that this is cribbed from citing anywhere?
Ironically for Sir William, the Canteloupe women were renowned for the size of their melons
What’s the name of the painting in the thumbnail?
This is like a strange new version of cluedo 😂
If you liked this, as the video doesn't cite its sources, I'd recommend Frederik Pedersen's work on this as he did a major study on it, and he's extensively quoted in the wikipedia article. The video itself seems to be structured around the only book-length treatment of this case which is "Murder During the Hundred Years' War: The Curious Case of William de Cantilupe" by Melissa Julian-Jones, which opens the same way ("In May 1375....") and with the same chapters that this video has, but the book has a list of all the main players at the front so it's a bit easier to keep them straight! Julian-Jones's book looks at loads of different angles to the case and also looks at the wider 14thC society to put things into context. It's a really complicated case that went on from 1375-1378!
@@cmrosens4643 sweet, thanks a LOT for that! Obviously I'll check out wiki (it's nearly 1am here in Scotland though so not right now, it's Monday tomorrow lol) but I really want to chase down that book. I've lived in this city for nearly 7yrs and although the main library is just 15min away from me and this city has good Universities (old too, one of them founded in 1495, another sometime in the 1700s if I remember right) I've still not got round to going to it since I've either been busy or just didn't have a reason any more but I absolutely have a reason now haha thanks again for that, I genuinely appreciate it 👍
@@teethgrinder83 Frederik Pedersen's book on Marriage Disputes in the Middle Ages might also be available, I know that he writes more on Nicholas and Katherine in there if you were interested in following that up!
Wow! What’s the title and artist of the painting at 0:42? Does anyone know??
It’s an AI generated image. You can find it using Google lens.
It's AI Generated
Are you serious?
Lmao
Sad case
Gilles de Rais?
Sir Ralph Painal? What an unfortunate name.
Paynell is the other spelling - the one I've seen most in the sources about this. The case is from the book "Murder During the Hundred Years' War by Melissa Julian-Jones.
Her: he’s flat as an action figure down there.
Her dad: you’re an experienced.
Me: William Cantaloupe must die.
Better than Eastenders lol even a dirty den character in the form of the father lol !! Bravo welldone Friday night fun xx
I love da cantaloupes
I love traveling back in time, thank Christ i don't have to speak Chaucers' English again!
New here. Be gentle. It's my first time.
So we hooked on this channel
The weirdest case ive heard is one from the time where everyone had a big bible that you would pass down in generations , so maybe like 1600’s? Anyhow there was a woman who beat a man to death with her bible and she was pardoned because she used a bible to beat him to death , so to them its as if god partook in the murder and so that meant it was gods plan for him to die😂 I think she found him commiting adultery or something and she was tired of his shit
It's not a mystery, when you give away the murderers' identity at the very beginning.
I think the mystery is whether or not the men who were hanged for it were really guilty of it, or if Maud just threw them under the bus. Frederik Pedersen is a historian whose translations of the sources are quoted in the video but I notice he's not mentioned in the description. He did a major study of this which is mostly paywalled academic articles BUT he's extensively quoted in the wikipedia article. I think it's possible to grab a PDF of his article where he did a study on Nicholas, William's brother, too. The video itself seems to be structured on the chapters of the only book on this case, "Murder During the Hundred Years' War" by Melissa Julian-Jones, and that book goes into way more detail than the video can in the timeframe, and challenges some of the traditional assumptions made, looks at the evidence we have, and suggests a lot of other ways this could have happened.
A woman killed him. Maybe a mother aunt etc.
The author of the book this whole video is based on, ("Murder During the Hundred Years' War" by Melissa Julian-Jones) is running a workshop on this topic in February, it's on Eventbrite called "Medieval Murder: Goth Detectives" hosted by Romancing the Gothic project. It's a 2-day online workshop where you get source packs from this case, and you can fill in the gaps creatively, using the sources. It's aimed at creative writers of all genres, and people who are just interested in true crime and how you can make up your own mind based on the evidence, and how you can fill in the gaps.
The thumbnail looks like 100 yr old Pee Wee Herman
if only his wife and william had the key then his squire broke in since he murdered him according to the tales. This is so house of the dragon "some say..."
@@look4lec this whole video is based on the book "Murder During the Hundred Years' War" by Melissa Julian-Jones, which goes into lots more detail about the case than the video could do in the time... It looks at what the testimony says happened and then at all the reasons why it might have happened. It is a shame the book hasn't been credited in the video description.
Nicholas may have been gay.
🙂👍
Was Sir Nickolas a female?
He was probably intersex but obviously they had no idea what that was and were probably killed for it back then
That's a really good question; the short answer is no, he probably had CAH - congenital adrenal hyperplasia, which is discussed in the book this video is based on, "Murder During The Hundred Years' War" by Melissa Julian-Jones (Pen & Sword Books, 2020). The major study on this was done by Frederik Pedersen, where he suggests Nicholas was intersex. There's a lot more info in there than the video can squeeze in, but Nicholas was deep-voiced and considered tall and 'manly', and definitely ID'd as a man, was accepted as a man - from the manner of his death and other symptoms, again discussed in the book. It talks about how intersex people were treated as well, and the medieval stigma around intersex conditions. Also it seems a lot of his relatives knew he had some physical differences: Katherine his wife reported that she was told by Nicholas's cousin Elizabeth, "My lady, I'll give you a penny if you ever have joy of your husband" (Pedersen's translation) and she never explained why. [Julian-Jones's book does warn that historians tend to pathologise when they talk about intersex conditions, and it also a transphobic/intersex-phobic ballad from the time that illustrates some of the stigma people faced, which is at the back and a warning is given.]
@@zeddisdead3239 Yes, so historians like Frederik Pedersen think he had CAH (congenital adrenal Hyperplasia) which wasn't understood at the time. Intersex people weren't officially killed for it, but just like today and the "trans panic" defence, people would be attacked and killed for their physical differences. The book that this whole video seems to be structured on is called "Murder During The Hundred Years' War" by Melissa Julian-Jones, and it goes into more detail on this topic to give some context to Nicholas. It's hard to strike a balance as Nicholas did go on to abuse Katherine to keep her from getting their marriage anulled, like threatening to chain her to a wall with leg irons if she didn't swear on the Bible what she'd told people about him wasn't true. Frederik Peterson also discusses Nicholas and Katherine in his book on Medieval Marriage - "Marriage Disputes in Medieval England".
Those feet at the .09 second mark- this is what happens when your shoes are too tight as a kid. My pinky toes went under my ring toes til I took taekwondo in my 20s.
Great content, you kinda sound bored half the time though ngl
8:36 lol, Sviatopolk is here😂
Ukrainians 👇
Gotta feel bad for Nicholas. He was probably intersex, which would be miserable at just about any time in history- just because of prejudice. But still, a great, funny story.
His family, mother and servants, nanny, etc must have known....who bathed and changed the diapers when he was a child? Since, as you say, he was probably intersex.
He may have had the same condition that the controversial boxers at the Paris Olympics
@@flowermeerkat6827 exactly. There’s a fantastic book called Middlesex by Jeffrey Eugenides which is a fictional story about someone with this physiology. It’s a fantastic read, just as a piece of literature, and it is factually accurate as far as it’s portrayal of what it is and how it’s historically been handled. I highly recommend it.
He was almost certainly intersex, and one theory is that he had congenital adrenal hyperplasia. Frederik Pedersen did all the research on Nicholas's annulment case, and suggested this as a diagnosis. This video seems to be structured from the book "Murder During the Hundred Years' War: the Curious Case of William de Cantilupe" by Melissa Julian-Jones, who I notice isn't credited in the video description, although this is the only book on this case and it was published in 2020. I say this because its chapters are basically the same as the chapters in that book, and the phrasing of the opening matches the opening phrases of the book, rather than the Wikipedia article where you'll find Pedersen et al referenced, and Julian-Jones in "Further Reading".
@@valeriemarott1923 Yes for sure. Frederik Pedersen is the one who did all the major research on this [Nicholas and his annulment], his book "Marriage Disputes in Medieval England" has a lot more info, as does the book "Murder During the Hundred Years' War" by Melissa Julian-Jones.
I'm sorry Katherine, micro penis just isn't a good reason for divorce, maybe we can put it down as inconsolable differences?
Benjamin netanyahu
What if Nicholas was a really a woman?
This is a really good question, and it's covered in the book this video is based on, "Murder During the Hundred Years' War" by Melissa Julian-Jones and also by Frederik Pedersen in his book on Medieval Marriage! ("Marriage disputes in medieval England"). The reason we don't think Nicholas was a woman is mainly bc Katherine never describes female genitalia - she would know what that was like - and that's not what she accuses him of. Also, other symptoms Nicholas exhibits, which can be guessed at from the source material, implies that he may have had CAH (Congenital Adrenal Hyperplasia). Pedersen has a few academic articles about this, but Julian-Jones's book is for a general audience and sets these arguments out (fully cited) along with context for the stigma of being intersex in the middle ages.
@@cmrosens4643 very interesting. He definitely had some condition. Cause even if he was very gay he'd get an erection at one point or another. And she would've seen it, but she didn't
@@Shinobi33 Pedersen's study talks a lot about this, and gives his reasons for thinking it was CAH. Julian-Jones's book cites Pedersen and she doesn't dispute this but does caution that it's hard to do retrospective diagnoses on historical figures with the limited evidence we have, and the fact Nicholas repeatedly refused a physical exam.
no views after 1 minute? dare I make a stale joke?
it seems to me sire, that thou daresth noth.
I don’t mean to be all 🤓☝️
But all you need to do is refresh the page, my brother in Christ.
I triple dog dare ya
Stale joke or two, please
I pray thee, refrain
Like 👍🏼 if you also watch this channel to fall asleep👇🏼😴 to lol pls create playlists 😊
You can make your own playlists you clown
“AI, use Simon Whistler’s voice and cadence, but make it younger..”
The coroner decided he died of "diverse multiple wounds..." DEI was a killer even way back then😳😂😎
Lame
It's odd how the video has certain mistakes even as they're copying books on the matter
Example: Nicholas was not accused of having a "tiny pinis" as the video says, but of having _no_ penis.
stop using ai images