@@doubleL_Swhat exactly would be the point other than to entertain your simple mind for about 3 seconds? Why would you compare a hardtail to a full suspension bike? You're not going to ride them the same find a cheap full suspension bike is garbage if you took it on really technical Trails you'd wind up shortening the life of the dampers or possibly breaking them whereas a expensive hardtail with a good Fork is going to stand up years longer study up son 🙄🤦♂️
As much as I appreciate the video it's kind of a strange video to put out. You have an upgrade and full suspension bike versus a non-upgraded budget hardtail. The comparison is skewed from the get-go. A proper comparison would be two bikes that cost the same amount but one is full suspension and one is not. And not used or upgraded. From the store at MSRP. This just felt like you telling us you prefer full suspension bikes and the actual costs of the bike didn't matter
They showed you price points in components on new non upgraded bikes as well. Full sus was only a few hundred more with the same quality components. Plus better suspension.
Yeh agree. Then compared a hard tail with a full sus that was on sale, but still more expensive. Why not show the hard tail that was the same as the non sale price.
@@UnlikelyReplyso whole video is pointless… But if you want to compare two different products there should be some „connection point” - in this case it should be the price, but it wasn’t… Hardtail was just much worse from the beginning - even if you take into consideration only two things: suspension and tires. P.S. I forgot about the dropper post- what is for me the most important thing to have on the MTB.
Even the canyon comparison was not fair as the HT was ~£1.2K and the FS was ~£1.8K; the fact that the FS was discounted is down to canyon needing to clearout stock. The FS is the canyon cheaper offer and should be compared to a grand canyon 9 which is sold for ... ~£1.75K! and is fitted with deore M8 series rather than M6, SLX brakes rather than box std brake...
I think you guys should do a video on chosing a hardtail as a beginner because an XC hard tail has a different geometry and equipment to a fully aggressive trail hard tail and that's what beginners don't understand, they usually base their decisions on what looks cool and end up on a bike that's not up to the job they wanted it for and that can put them off riding.
The calibre bossnut is just a legend of a bike - so much respect for gooutdoors and calibre providing bikes for riding and not just for making money. They are just now having a resurgence after covid made the bossnut and triple b impossible to find and their new lines could become staple bikes in the uk for the next few years, depending on how well Vitus manage to weather their current storm. The voodoo hoodoo ticks alot of the boxes as well, especially for those extra strapped for cash and is testament to what can be achieved on a cheaper bike.
Ooh, it would also be good to see what a non-ex-pro downhill rider thinks of these exact two bikes. Give a relative newbie (not jack - he's too good) a shot of both and see what they think of them.
I love my hardtail, the dynamics are very different with a full sus but I like how the hardtail forces me to engage my brain more often, I feel like a get a mental workout as well!
Something to remember; maintenance *costs* of a full suspension are way higher than a hardtail. Air shock rebuilds and bearing swaps happen more often than you think, are a pita, and cost a mint done at the shop. A cable brake hardtail with a coil fork is like an old tractor, it just. keeps. going...
But I’d definitely swap out the cable brakes for a good set of hydraulic brakes. Clarke, Shimano and others do them for around £50 that are easy to fit and reliable, as well as stopping better… I do agree about the coil forks though, they just keep on going whatever you throw at them.
@@stujm8376 - Avid cable discs on the front; 80% as good as hydraulic, and on the rear they're even better. Those sacked out Hope's on the Don's dreambike are just troubles waiting to happen
It's an absolute buyer's market for used bikes right now so really great if someone is looking at getting into the sport. I had my old bike for sale, it was £3000 less than 2 years old and I couldn't even sell it at £800! I ended up breaking it up and selling it off in parts.
Glad to see a review for the avid rider who has the skills to differentiate between low/mid/higher end components. A few personal (in my actual experience) observations. 1. A used mtb is a gamble regardless of cost and as pointed out problems may not be obvious upon purchase. 2. Most mtb buyers, at the sub $1000 level will spend most of their time in their neighborhood and on paved paths. I see more mtb rolling past my house, on a paved road, than I’ll see in 3 hours on the trails. Here there are more Trek & Specialized on pavement than Mega-Store bought bikes, hardtail and FS. These bikes will never get anywhere close to capability, and the riders would barely notice the difference in Eagle vs Deore. Their bikes are chosen b/c they like the feel of the grips and the color. They will lose interest in riding before the chain needs replacement. Again, my personal observations. Your experience will vary and I respect it. 3. Hopefully the avid rider chooses a bike based on their needs and riding style and not on budget. The bike must Fit them in several ways; size, purpose and budget or they will probably be disappointed. An XL for 5’4” rider, cross hard tail for big air/super technical trails, or having no time to ride b/c they need to pick up a 2nd job to cover the cost, just don’t fit. Not covered, but most important, bar end streamers, cutesie bells, kickstands, flashing taillights, and color. Essentials for any full suspension review. big cheesy smile.
And a similar price. The full sus cost as much second hand as the hard tail would have cost brand new. Besides, the newest Voodoo £600 hardtail is now a 29er with other different components.
I agree do dollar for dollar hardtail vs fullsus. Used bikes are great if either you know what to look for or they'll allow you to take to shop. Friend of mine decided to go it alone with out taking someone who has better idea what to look for.. $1600 later he had a cracked frame, scratched and leaking forks and those were just things noticed at first glance.
Well, I would suggest mentioning boost spacing for the sake of future proofing (upgrades.) I would opt for an even better hardtail at the same price point, and get way better components, boost spacing, so that all of those parts have a place on my next bike if needed.
I got my 2016 Whyte T130c-RS for £750, excellent condition apart from needing frame bearings, had upgraded wheels but the stock guide brakes were rubbish, got the spec to what I wanted after spending about £200 on top (net parts sold on). Good used is the way to go!
earlier this year i bought a old 26" trek scratch air 6 for £300. sold the previously converted 1x9 driveline and slx cranks for £100. picked up some deore 1x10, 11-46t i think for £70 total. popped my rare 165mm assram xo cranks which i paid £120 for on it. some old hope mono pro m4's i paid £107 for. rebuilt the fork and whilst in there increased it from 160mm to 170mm travel. and bought my friends broken reverb plus 1x lever for £50 and rebuilt it so it works. with a romin pro evo saddle (used) and some used XT m8020 spd pedals it owes me a total of £630. not bad for a decent reach, 66 degree head angle 170mm trail bike. yes it's still 26inch but i'll take 26 and 170mm front and rear of easy to pedal smoooth travel over 27.5 and 120mm any day.
From my experience most budget hardtails can be upgraded to a higher level. Starting by replacing the basic fork and drive train most budget hardtails have. If a person is a steady everyday rider, a suspension bike can be more trouble than they are worth because of the maintenance difference. A hardtail can do almost anything a rider can ask for, without suspension prices.
As a motorcycle mechanic and suspension setup for race bikes the goal was to keep the tire on the ground as much as possible under different conditions . I would think for mountain biking the goal would be the same . A good rear shock and front compliant suspension , whether you are in race mode or not can make a big difference with overall ride quality . Your wheels and tires will love you as well . lol
Although it has its shortcomings, the Calibre Bossnut has to be one of the greatest names ever for a mountain bike. My mate has one. And it brings out the Boss Nutter in him!
A helped a friend sort out a second hand full sus they bough as a "bargain". 1: I couldn't find the bike ever existing at the spec/colour he bought it as 2: It had rear wheel steering, because all the bearings were shot 3: The front brake was locked on, and the hose was too short 4: The BB was corroded, which made it feel like you were always in the wrong gear. 5: After servicing the fork lower legs/wiper seals, replacing the bearings, replacing the BB, I found that it was a pig to put back together - I think it had a big crash at a local jump track and was bent somewhere. 6: the cost of fixing that lot wasn't too far way from the cost of my Voodoo Bazingo. 7: It is rather a nice bike now, after all the expense/effort
So the bike that cost nearly twice as much was better. No big surprise there. This is a great question, but an entirely flawed comparison. You compared two use bikes that had vastly different prices both new and used. Then the more expensive bike had significant upgrades. You got a screaming good deal on that Calibre. Even the short comparison on components with the Canyon bikes was not really a comparison when the full suspension bike was still significantly more expensive. Try comparing two bikes that are similarly priced: For example the Marin Rift Zone 1 and the Marin San Quentin 3. Alternatively, see what you can new in a full sus for a price similar to that Voodoo Hoodoo. I think you'll find get different results.
Used bikes will always be the best, I was able to score myself a 2019 trek session 8 for $1000, after my time and a couple, hundred dollars in parts, I’ve got myself an awesome riding downhill bike for like $1,600
Quite a few of us full suspension seasoned riders have built up cheap winter hardtails recently taking advantage of the deals on crc & wiggle on ragleys & nukeproof scouts . Hardtails make sense in winter no point smashing youre high end bike through winter slop.
that's exactly kind of content I've been following this channel for ... however, as many have mentioned in comments, these two bikes aren't the best fit for such a comparison, IMO
I bought a bike with sram sx, ooof. I gave it a fair chance but I just couldn't stand it. Anyway I upgraded with a trp tr12 drivetrain but it would have been better off budget wise with some microshift or deore. As someone who tried it for almost two months I strongly recommend you avoid everything SX unless you need a cheap dub crankset offered in 155 to 175. Everything else is junky also the square bb, chainring and NX/SX cassettes are way too heavy and they wear way too fast for steel. Sram did good with most eagle GX and up I loved my second gen GX and older XO but they are screwing up their reputation with SX. Shouldn't be marketed with the rest of the eagle lineup in my humble opinion.
I just swapped out an eagle GX rear derailleur for $150 installed and got an X01 chain for another $60. Keeping the rest of the drive train and shifters from SX and it has been working great for me.
Great video thanks - really helpful for someone like me still quite new to the scene, enjoying my entry level hardtail and trying to work out what to look at next :)
Stick with the hardtail and upgrade it for now, you’ll notice a massive difference in riding enjoyment and you can find second hand parts at a good price. Building your own bike is also a great experience.
I have both, but love riding my hardtail more if I’m honest, it’s just more fun for me. It gets a lot of abuse and my riding has progressed much quicker. Something I realise when I do ride my full sus.
If I had £600 to spend, I would go with the second hand full sus with upgrades, over a new hardtail for the same price. I got a good deal on a second hand bike a year ago, it had hardly been used.
How about doing a bike comparison video to explain the difference between an under £200 store budget bike (quil stem, 3x7, mechanical brakes, zoom forks), a budget MTB (such as the voodoo, Calibre etc) & the high end MTB's. Explain the vast difference between store lookalike MTB's & budget or top end.
The Calibre Bossnut is just a rebranding of a dual suspension Polygon bike with Go Outdoors choice of components for the price point. It was great a few years ago but they are getting old and the frames will be getting tired and closer to failure. I guess now you would be looking at a Polygon bike to offer similar value on a new model. As ever though don't get brand obsessed, killer deals could be any brand, look at the spec. All the bikes are pretty much coming out of factories in Asia and most are just simple rebrands, others have tweaks to geometry etc. I would say focus on the spec not the importer.
My opinion: most riders can get along just fine with a reasonable hardtail. Leaving a good amount of cash left over for easy touch point upgrades to better suit the rider.
this opinion is akin to saying that people interested in driving should pick out a car without power steering so they can save some money and get a feel for it. Maybe true for racing but not anything else. Full rigid is good though, hardtails are just like hiking in socks instead of shoes or barefoot
Picked up a 2021 nukeproof scout pro for £900 the guy had done 50 miles on it in 2 years. He paid £2,500 brand new😮💨. A slack hardtail with 2.6+ tyres is more than capable on any sort of trial. If you’re going hardtail go for a second hand high spec one, they’re cheap as chips right now in the current e-bike crazed community.
Nov 5th 2023 If you are in the market for a bike now, you are in luck. Fantastic offers are to be had at chainreaction. Good mtb starts from around £370. Ragley mmmbop 1 £999. I honestly believe you can't buy better, even 2nd
Hardly a fair comparison. The full suss starts at 1000 plus extras that cost north of 500 even after you sold the original parts for the swap.So if your budget is between 600 and 1500 maybe some budgeting advice would be more suitable…
You are aware though that people who are in the market for a 375 pound bike will generally not be able to shell out 600?!? Than you proceed to say that a 300 pound more expensive full-sus is the same as the cheaper hardtail. The used rear damper can be had for less than 150 euro's brand new though, sure there will be some other bits and bobs involved that increase cost but it remains apples to oranges.
I really hope that wasn't a "real "dubble black trail, noting against Neil but it just doesn't look like one maby im just use to the ruff trial's in my home state 🤷♂️ lol
Second hand market fire at mo nothing is shifting. My mate sold a 2021 slash for £1800 other day and it took 2 weeks to sell it, practically giving the thing away, check local pinkbike sales in your area- nothing is moving despite give away prices, what 600 can get you now is ridiculous
Unreasonable comparison. You can't take a bike that has FS *and* better components, a dropper post, that costs more, and then ride it only on intermediate to extremely difficult trails. It's not representative of anything besides more money = more better. What if you only have $1000 to spend? That's the question we care about.
I wanted to like this but couldn't. Stock hardtail Vs upgraded full Sus at different price points. If you're comparing budget bikes they should both be stock and the same price new. The second hand price points aren't nearly close together either. Closer together than new but as the price drops then the value of each £ changes. I'd love to see hardtail Vs full Sus at £500, £1000 and £1500 price poi ts
Wasn't really a fair comparison. The full sus had better tyres, fork, geo. But full sus was always going to win. Keen to see expensive hardcore hardtail (like a pole taival) vs the bossnut
Why compare 1000(with upgrades sus) vs 600 hardtail?? Whats the point?? Compare extract same price bikes. whos idea was this? 😂 Take for example Radon charger 8 like 1799 euro and compare it whit their skeen trail Al 7 like 1699 euro
I feel like with a cheap full sus the suspension will be so much lesser than expensive that the hardtail might end up being better simply cause cheap sus just doesnt last in reality no matter how good it feels first day out.
Sorry Neil, there is nothing even remotely similar between SX and Deore 12 speed, especially when the Neuron comes with the lighter SLX cassette. If your budget can stretch you'd be crazy to go for that Grand Canyon over the Neuron for only £300 extra.
I would appreciate if you guys would stop buying second hand “cheap” bikes for comparisons. This full sus may have cost $600, but it’s a $1,000 bike with $300+ in upgrades. That doesn’t compare to a stock $600 hardtail. Do raw comparisons: is a stock cheap full sus better than a stock cheap hard tail?
You spent almost double the money on the full sus bike as the hardtail, so how is your premise valid? The new bikes you compared with 'equal components' were not of equal price. The full sus bike was on sale and still £300 more, but was supposed to be over £1800. For that price you would get a pretty capable hardtail. If you are going to test an idea, actually do, don't half arse it 😂
I can’t really comment on the Capra but I ordered a nukeproof mega from chain reaction cycles for £1800 not too long ago, might be worth taking a look at
Your comparing hardtail components to full suspension bikes that cost half again as much. Wouldn't it be more useful to compare two bikes at the same price
So the more expensive, upgraded full suspension bike won? Surely not! Hardly a fair comparison. If you only have £X00 amount of money, that's all you've got. If both bikes were the same price it would be a completely different outcome. 👎
What’s the point of this video? if you spend more money on an upgraded full sus, duh! It’ll be better than a cheaper hardtail. Should of compared two standard bikes at same price.
What a pointless test, compare a more expensive bike with good upgrades to a cheap hardtail? Why? Yeah the better bike is better. In other news, water is wet! 🤯
U guys should do expensive hardtail vs cheap full sus.
JUST about to say that.
These bikes ride totally different, hardtail is so different in doing bunny hops etc
Voodoo Bizango pro would probably have been a "fairer" comparison.
There's no point the expensive hardtail beats the cheap full suspension everyday all day🙄
@@doubleL_Swhat exactly would be the point other than to entertain your simple mind for about 3 seconds? Why would you compare a hardtail to a full suspension bike? You're not going to ride them the same find a cheap full suspension bike is garbage if you took it on really technical Trails you'd wind up shortening the life of the dampers or possibly breaking them whereas a expensive hardtail with a good Fork is going to stand up years longer study up son 🙄🤦♂️
As much as I appreciate the video it's kind of a strange video to put out. You have an upgrade and full suspension bike versus a non-upgraded budget hardtail. The comparison is skewed from the get-go. A proper comparison would be two bikes that cost the same amount but one is full suspension and one is not. And not used or upgraded. From the store at MSRP. This just felt like you telling us you prefer full suspension bikes and the actual costs of the bike didn't matter
Agreed. Great premise but they missed the mark.
They showed you price points in components on new non upgraded bikes as well. Full sus was only a few hundred more with the same quality components. Plus better suspension.
Yeh agree. Then compared a hard tail with a full sus that was on sale, but still more expensive. Why not show the hard tail that was the same as the non sale price.
@@UnlikelyReplyso whole video is pointless…
But if you want to compare two different products there should be some „connection point” - in this case it should be the price, but it wasn’t…
Hardtail was just much worse from the beginning - even if you take into consideration only two things: suspension and tires.
P.S. I forgot about the dropper post- what is for me the most important thing to have on the MTB.
Even the canyon comparison was not fair as the HT was ~£1.2K and the FS was ~£1.8K; the fact that the FS was discounted is down to canyon needing to clearout stock. The FS is the canyon cheaper offer and should be compared to a grand canyon 9 which is sold for ... ~£1.75K! and is fitted with deore M8 series rather than M6, SLX brakes rather than box std brake...
I think you guys should do a video on chosing a hardtail as a beginner because an XC hard tail has a different geometry and equipment to a fully aggressive trail hard tail and that's what beginners don't understand, they usually base their decisions on what looks cool and end up on a bike that's not up to the job they wanted it for and that can put them off riding.
The calibre bossnut is just a legend of a bike - so much respect for gooutdoors and calibre providing bikes for riding and not just for making money. They are just now having a resurgence after covid made the bossnut and triple b impossible to find and their new lines could become staple bikes in the uk for the next few years, depending on how well Vitus manage to weather their current storm. The voodoo hoodoo ticks alot of the boxes as well, especially for those extra strapped for cash and is testament to what can be achieved on a cheaper bike.
Ooh, it would also be good to see what a non-ex-pro downhill rider thinks of these exact two bikes. Give a relative newbie (not jack - he's too good) a shot of both and see what they think of them.
I love my hardtail, the dynamics are very different with a full sus but I like how the hardtail forces me to engage my brain more often, I feel like a get a mental workout as well!
Something to remember; maintenance *costs* of a full suspension are way higher than a hardtail.
Air shock rebuilds and bearing swaps happen more often than you think, are a pita, and cost a mint done at the shop. A cable brake hardtail with a coil fork is like an old tractor, it just. keeps. going...
But I’d definitely swap out the cable brakes for a good set of hydraulic brakes. Clarke, Shimano and others do them for around £50 that are easy to fit and reliable, as well as stopping better…
I do agree about the coil forks though, they just keep on going whatever you throw at them.
@@stujm8376 - Avid cable discs on the front; 80% as good as hydraulic, and on the rear they're even better. Those sacked out Hope's on the Don's dreambike are just troubles waiting to happen
It's an absolute buyer's market for used bikes right now so really great if someone is looking at getting into the sport. I had my old bike for sale, it was £3000 less than 2 years old and I couldn't even sell it at £800! I ended up breaking it up and selling it off in parts.
Yeah bad time to sell because no one's got any money. Don't think it's gonna get any better either just worse
No. No it not.
Glad to see a review for the avid rider who has the skills to differentiate between low/mid/higher end components. A few personal (in my actual experience) observations.
1. A used mtb is a gamble regardless of cost and as pointed out problems may not be obvious upon purchase.
2. Most mtb buyers, at the sub $1000 level will spend most of their time in their neighborhood and on paved paths. I see more mtb rolling past my house, on a paved road, than I’ll see in 3 hours on the trails. Here there are more Trek & Specialized on pavement than Mega-Store bought bikes, hardtail and FS. These bikes will never get anywhere close to capability, and the riders would barely notice the difference in Eagle vs Deore. Their bikes are chosen b/c they like the feel of the grips and the color. They will lose interest in riding before the chain needs replacement. Again, my personal observations. Your experience will vary and I respect it.
3. Hopefully the avid rider chooses a bike based on their needs and riding style and not on budget. The bike must Fit them in several ways; size, purpose and budget or they will probably be disappointed. An XL for 5’4” rider, cross hard tail for big air/super technical trails, or having no time to ride b/c they need to pick up a 2nd job to cover the cost, just don’t fit.
Not covered, but most important, bar end streamers, cutesie bells, kickstands, flashing taillights, and color. Essentials for any full suspension review. big cheesy smile.
i feel like both bikes should have been completely stock
And a similar price. The full sus cost as much second hand as the hard tail would have cost brand new. Besides, the newest Voodoo £600 hardtail is now a 29er with other different components.
Do both go outdoors bikes; fs and ht.
I agree do dollar for dollar hardtail vs fullsus. Used bikes are great if either you know what to look for or they'll allow you to take to shop. Friend of mine decided to go it alone with out taking someone who has better idea what to look for.. $1600 later he had a cracked frame, scratched and leaking forks and those were just things noticed at first glance.
Well, I would suggest mentioning boost spacing for the sake of future proofing (upgrades.)
I would opt for an even better hardtail at the same price point, and get way better components, boost spacing, so that all of those parts have a place on my next bike if needed.
I got my 2016 Whyte T130c-RS for £750, excellent condition apart from needing frame bearings, had upgraded wheels but the stock guide brakes were rubbish, got the spec to what I wanted after spending about £200 on top (net parts sold on). Good used is the way to go!
earlier this year i bought a old 26" trek scratch air 6 for £300. sold the previously converted 1x9 driveline and slx cranks for £100. picked up some deore 1x10, 11-46t i think for £70 total. popped my rare 165mm assram xo cranks which i paid £120 for on it. some old hope mono pro m4's i paid £107 for. rebuilt the fork and whilst in there increased it from 160mm to 170mm travel. and bought my friends broken reverb plus 1x lever for £50 and rebuilt it so it works. with a romin pro evo saddle (used) and some used XT m8020 spd pedals it owes me a total of £630. not bad for a decent reach, 66 degree head angle 170mm trail bike. yes it's still 26inch but i'll take 26 and 170mm front and rear of easy to pedal smoooth travel over 27.5 and 120mm any day.
Great to see a budget friendly reasonable bike comparison
From my experience most budget hardtails can be upgraded to a higher level. Starting by replacing the basic fork and drive train most budget hardtails have. If a person is a steady everyday rider, a suspension bike can be more trouble than they are worth because of the maintenance difference. A hardtail can do almost anything a rider can ask for, without suspension prices.
As a motorcycle mechanic and suspension setup for race bikes the goal was to keep the tire on the ground as much as possible under different conditions .
I would think for mountain biking the goal would be the same .
A good rear shock and front compliant suspension , whether you are in race mode or not can make a big difference with overall ride quality .
Your wheels and tires will love you as well . lol
🤣 Would still choose the hardtail, for low servicing👍
U should test a good hardtail like nukeproof scout , stoic 4, kona honzo esd ..... vs full suspension bike at the same price range!
Although it has its shortcomings, the Calibre Bossnut has to be one of the greatest names ever for a mountain bike. My mate has one. And it brings out the Boss Nutter in him!
I’m in the process of building up a ns eccentric that I picked up from eBay.
A helped a friend sort out a second hand full sus they bough as a "bargain".
1: I couldn't find the bike ever existing at the spec/colour he bought it as
2: It had rear wheel steering, because all the bearings were shot
3: The front brake was locked on, and the hose was too short
4: The BB was corroded, which made it feel like you were always in the wrong gear.
5: After servicing the fork lower legs/wiper seals, replacing the bearings, replacing the BB, I found that it was a pig to put back together - I think it had a big crash at a local jump track and was bent somewhere.
6: the cost of fixing that lot wasn't too far way from the cost of my Voodoo Bazingo.
7: It is rather a nice bike now, after all the expense/effort
So the bike that cost nearly twice as much was better. No big surprise there.
This is a great question, but an entirely flawed comparison. You compared two use bikes that had vastly different prices both new and used. Then the more expensive bike had significant upgrades. You got a screaming good deal on that Calibre. Even the short comparison on components with the Canyon bikes was not really a comparison when the full suspension bike was still significantly more expensive.
Try comparing two bikes that are similarly priced: For example the Marin Rift Zone 1 and the Marin San Quentin 3.
Alternatively, see what you can new in a full sus for a price similar to that Voodoo Hoodoo. I think you'll find get different results.
Used bikes will always be the best, I was able to score myself a 2019 trek session 8 for $1000, after my time and a couple, hundred dollars in parts, I’ve got myself an awesome riding downhill bike for like $1,600
Quite a few of us full suspension seasoned riders have built up cheap winter hardtails recently taking advantage of the deals on crc & wiggle on ragleys & nukeproof scouts . Hardtails make sense in winter no point smashing youre high end bike through winter slop.
How are 600 and 1000 the same price?
that's exactly kind of content I've been following this channel for
... however, as many have mentioned in comments, these two bikes aren't the best fit for such a comparison, IMO
Been on two wheels for 50 yrs. Haven't owned a full sus.... yet. Might be my next bike. This old body is ready for some suspension ❤
I bought a bike with sram sx, ooof. I gave it a fair chance but I just couldn't stand it.
Anyway I upgraded with a trp tr12 drivetrain but it would have been better off budget wise with some microshift or deore.
As someone who tried it for almost two months I strongly recommend you avoid everything SX unless you need a cheap dub crankset offered in 155 to 175. Everything else is junky also the square bb, chainring and NX/SX cassettes are way too heavy and they wear way too fast for steel.
Sram did good with most eagle GX and up I loved my second gen GX and older XO but they are screwing up their reputation with SX. Shouldn't be marketed with the rest of the eagle lineup in my humble opinion.
The tourney of 12 speed drivetrains
I just swapped out an eagle GX rear derailleur for $150 installed and got an X01 chain for another $60. Keeping the rest of the drive train and shifters from SX and it has been working great for me.
That bossnut is a dreambike for me🤩🤩🤩
Great video thanks - really helpful for someone like me still quite new to the scene, enjoying my entry level hardtail and trying to work out what to look at next :)
Stick with the hardtail and upgrade it for now, you’ll notice a massive difference in riding enjoyment and you can find second hand parts at a good price. Building your own bike is also a great experience.
I have both, but love riding my hardtail more if I’m honest, it’s just more fun for me. It gets a lot of abuse and my riding has progressed much quicker. Something I realise when I do ride my full sus.
If I had £600 to spend, I would go with the second hand full sus with upgrades, over a new hardtail for the same price. I got a good deal on a second hand bike a year ago, it had hardly been used.
Good feature Neil! The trail look glorious and some of the videography was very arty, well done!
How about doing a bike comparison video to explain the difference between an under £200 store budget bike (quil stem, 3x7, mechanical brakes, zoom forks), a budget MTB (such as the voodoo, Calibre etc) & the high end MTB's. Explain the vast difference between store lookalike MTB's & budget or top end.
The Calibre Bossnut is just a rebranding of a dual suspension Polygon bike with Go Outdoors choice of components for the price point. It was great a few years ago but they are getting old and the frames will be getting tired and closer to failure. I guess now you would be looking at a Polygon bike to offer similar value on a new model. As ever though don't get brand obsessed, killer deals could be any brand, look at the spec. All the bikes are pretty much coming out of factories in Asia and most are just simple rebrands, others have tweaks to geometry etc. I would say focus on the spec not the importer.
My opinion: most riders can get along just fine with a reasonable hardtail. Leaving a good amount of cash left over for easy touch point upgrades to better suit the rider.
this opinion is akin to saying that people interested in driving should pick out a car without power steering so they can save some money and get a feel for it. Maybe true for racing but not anything else. Full rigid is good though, hardtails are just like hiking in socks instead of shoes or barefoot
Picked up a 2021 nukeproof scout pro for £900 the guy had done 50 miles on it in 2 years. He paid £2,500 brand new😮💨. A slack hardtail with 2.6+ tyres is more than capable on any sort of trial. If you’re going hardtail go for a second hand high spec one, they’re cheap as chips right now in the current e-bike crazed community.
I would like to see bikes of an actual similar price, like $1500 hardtail and same price full suspension. That would be the most fair.
Overpaid on that Voodoo, picked up a 2022 Voodoo Bizango for £345 and a 2022 Boardman MHT 8.9 for £400. Both are 29" tubless ready and 1x
That Calibre looked pretty impressive on the double black trail for the money
Compare an aggressive hardtail to a budget full suspension both should cost about the same .
Hardtail FTW. 🤟
You get what you pay for.. however, there comes a point where the bike becomes more than what your skill or needs are.
Nov 5th 2023
If you are in the market for a bike now, you are in luck. Fantastic offers are to be had at chainreaction. Good mtb starts from around £370. Ragley mmmbop 1 £999. I honestly believe you can't buy better, even 2nd
U guys should do trek marlin 2021 vs trek full sus 2021
Great, just bought the bossnut V2 for £325. Now that is a bargin!
i would pick the hardtail and great for beginner and advance riders like myself
Great time for bike deals. Winter time.
I would like to see this test with a 29ner hardtail vs calibre bossnut I reckon scores would be much closer.
Compare a lightweight cabon hardtail like a Polygon Syncline C5 versus full suspension like a Polygon Siskui D7
Hardly a fair comparison.
The full suss starts at 1000 plus extras that cost north of 500 even after you sold the original parts for the swap.So if your budget is between 600 and 1500 maybe some budgeting advice would be more suitable…
You are aware though that people who are in the market for a 375 pound bike will generally not be able to shell out 600?!? Than you proceed to say that a 300 pound more expensive full-sus is the same as the cheaper hardtail. The used rear damper can be had for less than 150 euro's brand new though, sure there will be some other bits and bobs involved that increase cost but it remains apples to oranges.
They are both great bikes 🚲
There have to be the same prices for comparison ☝️
You can't compare a stock bike to an upgraded bike! That Rockshox Reba shock is worth more than the Hoodoo! 🤣
This video should have another title: „what you will choose: bad hardtail or nice full sus”
I really hope that wasn't a "real "dubble black trail, noting against Neil but it just doesn't look like one maby im just use to the ruff trial's in my home state 🤷♂️ lol
Interesting to watch but maybe to new budget bikes with stock parts and not upgrades.
Second hand market fire at mo nothing is shifting. My mate sold a 2021 slash for £1800 other day and it took 2 weeks to sell it, practically giving the thing away, check local pinkbike sales in your area- nothing is moving despite give away prices, what 600 can get you now is ridiculous
I have a calibre bossnut
Unreasonable comparison. You can't take a bike that has FS *and* better components, a dropper post, that costs more, and then ride it only on intermediate to extremely difficult trails. It's not representative of anything besides more money = more better. What if you only have $1000 to spend? That's the question we care about.
I wanted to like this but couldn't. Stock hardtail Vs upgraded full Sus at different price points. If you're comparing budget bikes they should both be stock and the same price new. The second hand price points aren't nearly close together either. Closer together than new but as the price drops then the value of each £ changes. I'd love to see hardtail Vs full Sus at £500, £1000 and £1500 price poi ts
Wasn't really a fair comparison. The full sus had better tyres, fork, geo. But full sus was always going to win. Keen to see expensive hardcore hardtail (like a pole taival) vs the bossnut
By that I mean a long slack HT. The Scout, GMBNs default hardtail, is pretty conservative compared to a pole taival or moxie pipe dream....
Notice how the 29ers are not considered. Very Telling...
who else thinks neil sounds a bit sick
Neil needs to take care of that deviated septum. Or at least get some Flonase lol.
what do you think of the Vitus E-Escarpe 290 VR Mountain Bike for my first proper e-mtb mountain bike
Why compare 1000(with upgrades sus) vs 600 hardtail?? Whats the point?? Compare extract same price bikes. whos idea was this? 😂 Take for example Radon charger 8 like 1799 euro and compare it whit their skeen trail Al 7 like 1699 euro
I feel like with a cheap full sus the suspension will be so much lesser than expensive that the hardtail might end up being better simply cause cheap sus just doesnt last in reality no matter how good it feels first day out.
Get this man a lemsip
Where's the link to voodoo bike? Thanks
Sorry Neil, there is nothing even remotely similar between SX and Deore 12 speed, especially when the Neuron comes with the lighter SLX cassette. If your budget can stretch you'd be crazy to go for that Grand Canyon over the Neuron for only £300 extra.
No way, SX is not same level as Deore 6100, Shimano is way better. As is, Shimano Deore 6100 is better than NX.
The takeaway is: buy upgraded. ;)
where did you buy it from??
Trek Roscoe 7 vs norco fluid fs4????
hmmm ... don't get the commparison ... the full sus is nearly twice the price ...
Modern Full suspension>hardtail. Hardtails are for bmx and the pump track....
I would appreciate if you guys would stop buying second hand “cheap” bikes for comparisons. This full sus may have cost $600, but it’s a $1,000 bike with $300+ in upgrades. That doesn’t compare to a stock $600 hardtail. Do raw comparisons: is a stock cheap full sus better than a stock cheap hard tail?
You spent almost double the money on the full sus bike as the hardtail, so how is your premise valid?
The new bikes you compared with 'equal components' were not of equal price.
The full sus bike was on sale and still £300 more, but was supposed to be over £1800. For that price you would get a pretty capable hardtail.
If you are going to test an idea, actually do, don't half arse it 😂
I Agree ☝️ 😊
Well good init.
Where can a find full sus second had bike That are not fully suspicious bikes ✌️
Components are similar? The Price is 20% higher! course they are similar.
You gave hardtails 2
Think u and blake will be having a sit down 🤣✌️
Neil sounded and suggesting that he is recovering from a flu or a sore throat .
You should have spent the money on some lemsip a few paracetamol and some chicken noodle soup.
Can anyone tell me if the yt Capra core 1 is good or not cause I’m trying to get a full sus but not pass £2,300
I can’t really comment on the Capra but I ordered a nukeproof mega from chain reaction cycles for £1800 not too long ago, might be worth taking a look at
@@dominicpeters7476 CrC is going bankrupt, would not buy anything from there currently, especially a bike.
Your comparing hardtail components to full suspension bikes that cost half again as much. Wouldn't it be more useful to compare two bikes at the same price
So the more expensive, upgraded full suspension bike won? Surely not! Hardly a fair comparison. If you only have £X00 amount of money, that's all you've got. If both bikes were the same price it would be a completely different outcome. 👎
GMBN Presenters should fit their helmets properly. The straps are so loose it's ridiculous. I get it you need to speak but come on.
Why does Neil sound like he’s going through puberty in this video?😂
He defo sounds like he is ill, should stay in bed instead, lol
Probably a cold
They need to stop making mountain bikes with quick release just make em all thru axle!!
That's very sus
Don't buy a bike with a suntour xcr or xcm fork. They are dreadful!
Good luck finding used parts after a full suspension is ten years old....
What’s the point of this video? if you spend more money on an upgraded full sus, duh! It’ll be better than a cheaper hardtail. Should of compared two standard bikes at same price.
Anyone else feel like Neil’s been coming down with something these past few videos? Get better mate
That much of a budget bike that you never maintain them (state of the chains on both bikes) 😅
Budget new hardtail vs used full sus
What a pointless test, compare a more expensive bike with good upgrades to a cheap hardtail? Why? Yeah the better bike is better. In other news, water is wet! 🤯
😂😂😂 hi sir,, can you help me, give away fork mtb 26 please 😢❤❤❤❤