Probably the most reasonable AVP review. The mainstream reviews are mostly VR casuals so it's good to see the perspective of dedicated VR channels. While I'm not a big fan of Apple, there is no denying that this will push forward VR tech and adoption which is a win for us all.
How will it push anything the thing doesn't have controllers ? I also dont understand how thrill can call this "competition" the thing is 3500 bucks For a Goolge cardboard with an iphone inside ..... Yea nah The AVP could have pushed but apple did what apple does and did it different so differently to a point the darn thing HAS NO CONTROLLERS ....... Its garbage only morons and influencers buy so they can show it of to said morons
Yep, this is the video serious VR aficionado's have been waiting for, not Brownlee's blatant fanboying (but I guess Trill's income does not depend on keeping Apple sweet). The lack of controllers is a massive oversight and deal-breaker. Gestures are fine for simple, serial tasks, but controllers allow multiple parallel inputs. It just goes to show how little Apple understand gaming, the 3d arts, or VR locomotion.There's a reason we still use keyboards and don't write documents by painstakingly drawing letters in the air.
@@EvileDikI honestly defend Apple with this move. I think many would agree that if hand an eye tracking gets good enough they’d rather not use a controller. It was a necessary move to differentiate themselves also, cause they undercut their marketing of the hand and eye tracking if they add controllers. Also it’s not a gaming headset and I doubt it ever will be. The only con is you have to get a MacBook to really use the productivity gains. Good thing is many people have MacBooks already but I think they should add keyboard and mouse support via Bluetooth, then many more people would gladly use the device, probably.
I hate how so many other tech reviewers get millions of views on their vision pro videos, but you clearly are the most experienced VR tech reviewer on UA-cam and views are currently sitting at 70K. Obviously there's some factor as far as timing, but you deserve so much more. Thank you for your in-depth reviews of what remains to be a fairly niche market (when compared against average consumers).
Problem is that this is a niche channel compared to Linus Tech Tips or whatnot, it’s nothing against Thrill, but when you have a more diverse audience of ten million plus subscribers the numbers are just going to skew higher, it just one of those ratio things.
this vr headset is the most useless device apple has ever created by far, i can't remember a more useless device apple has created since the alluminum lock for the trash can apple pro that didn't have the same material then the metal of the trash can and stood out like a sore thumb.
i've so been waiting for this review. someone with knowledge of the VR scene and not just multi-million-subscriber tech bros and news outlets. thank you for the work you do
The one review to rule them all. Despite all the drawbacks, the clip of you sitting at the lake with all those different programs and windows running together and seeing the holographic VST display float above the physical keyboard was still probably the coolest and most compelling demo I have seen for vision pro. That and seeing steam VR working, it’ll be sweet to see what people can do with this thing given some time.
Do we know how he got Windows running? I know it may seem like a stupid question but I genuinely completely believed that there was no way Apple would let you use a windows PC in their headset, since it completely goes against their profits. Can anybody provide details on how well this works?
I ran ChatGPT by the virtual lake the other day, and it was the closest thing I’ve experienced to being on the Holodeck and having a conversation with “Computer!”
I use the parsec app for iPad to connect to my pc. Really any Remote Desktop tool has an app. A bit janky but it gets the job done. Bit of a pain to use the mouse since you can’t use one natively in visionOS. @@yourmomsboyfriend3337
I've watched Marques' review and some other big channels' reviews on the Vision pro but there's never a doubt in my mind that the absolute best review on the thing would come from you. So I, and apparently many others, have been excitingly waiting. NOBODY knows VR/XR like you and nobody can push the AVP like you can. This is great, I thank you for your service.
Tbf, you won't have the full picture about AVP without others. I feel it's just another perspective that only Thrill can provide. I watched several reviewers and many of them had some piece of new information. Let's see what Thril and Brad can provide.
@@RanmaruRei you're right. I of course got a lot of other infos on the device along with different perspectives on their experiences using it, but for the essence of what it can provide and what it's truly worth amongst the tons of VR headsets out there, only Thrill can give.
The iPhone convinced everyone of its value in one keynote. The AVP has relied on advocates to push it along. I don’t think many people see any value in it as part of their daily life.
@@bloopbleepnothinghereI remember, myself included, people thinking the iPad was pointless and who would want something’s that’s so big you won’t use it as a phone, yet not a computer? On paper it was stupid. Once I got one, it’s my main computation device. The only reason I fire up my Mac is to record music or install updates to make music. 90% of my emailing, 30% of my texting, most of my internet browsing, 90% of my UA-cam viewing, and 25% of my music listening, and 80% of my social networking is done on my iPad.
@@TheWolfCub71 ever tried using a pc? :D like you dont even know what you are missing if you are satisfied with a tablet... except you are a full on casual user then apple will give you the only "flawless" experience but i could never imagine sticking to a mobile device for music production or even limiting myself to only one device.... like for the money of your devices i would buy synth and recording equipment and still a decent pc/laptop to fill some gaps.... no mobile device if android or apple will ever give you the full range of possibility
@@drone-vision"more experience communicating headsets" Yes, I guarantee he is better at communicating the strengths, weaknesses, and points people care about to the general public than the majority of the developers of the headsets. Technical details or how they really work, no shot he knows better than the devs, but devs are notoriously bad at communicating with non-developers. Then the people paid to be communicators of it are going to downplay weaknesses.
@@BilboSwagginsTheThird every big company have a team that looks through competitor products, breaking down its functionality and then adjusting their own products. Watch this space soon Quest 3 will have their functionality updated....
Best AVP review. Period. Beyond tech, beyond numbers, beyond brands… just a real VR lover perspective opinion. I must say you are the only one youtuber I know that really distills that love for the XR and what it could become someday. The VR community really needs your work.
it's good because it's a start, a proof of concept. it's bad because it's a long way from the goal, a long way to go. but either way it's a step forward and that's something to be proud of.
Well this channel honestly is for and by gamers. Apple has never and imo will never be a gaming company as much as just a tech company. I worked there for five years and their mindset towards gaming is almost non existent. What I am excited for is other companies replicating the vision pro and taking it in those directions for cheaper like androids did with iphones.
It's been 10 years since the early Rift versions, yet we can write the exact same message about early Rifts and Vision Pro. Good start, proof of concept, long way from the goal. I thought 10 years ago that VR would be further ahead by now.
@@RawArt0 i mean it has taken us how long to perfect computers? and we are only getting to quantum computers within the past couple years, things take time and VR hasn't had quite the spotlight other mediums have had, but i digress you have some excellent points. (edit: let alone the fact we haven't even perfected computers, forgot to mention that.)
Your video production is of top quality! Sound, music, video, content, enthusiasm, realism, criticism, praises.... all top notch in my opinion. Thank you a ton, for producing such super enjoyable and interesting content on your channel!
Just an hour ago I went to your channel thinking maybe youtube wasn't pushing your videos to me anymore since it has been awhile and was shocked there wasn't a vid, just a few minutes later it arrived. Awesome content.
Ever heard of the subscription section? All I do is refresh that page a couple times a day, easy, no idea why anyone wouldn't use the best feature on UA-cam
I'm watching this in a virtual room on my Quest 3. I just realized, how insanely far we've come. From Google Cardbox to the Oculus Dev Kit, from HTC Vive to the first Quest - I have the feeling that VR and AR are slowly maturing and growing up. There's still a long way to go, we're still at the beginning - but holy moly, it's getting good. It's so great that Apple is offering competition. This is going to shake up the market sooo much! Quest 3 facelift with eye tracking wouldn't surprise me ;) Claire the lune basically sums up the beauty of this advancement well. Thank you for the beautiful video! I'm so excited for the future!
It feels like we're still at the early cell phone stages before smart phones came. Someday soon there will be released a product that will completely revolutionize the entire VR/AR industry the same way Steve Jobs managed to revolutionize phones.
@@bok4822 that's definitely the direction they're trying to take with apple right now. They've found a market they can try and do the same thing they did with the iPhone. Problem is, Steve ain't around anymore, and vr/ar is NOT the market and societal advancement, becoming a near necessity that cellphones had encompassed. I look forward to the future here.
It's hard for me to imagine using vr/mr without the haptic feedback of a controller. Like punching something on the quest feels so good because the controller vibrate.
Thank you for this review, I've been waiting for someone like you who really has the experience and the knowledge of the current state of VR/MR market to do a review like this.
This is by far the best Vision Pro review I’ve ever seen, and the one I’ve been waiting for! It really puts things into perspective and looks at the big picture
Love your reviews, there is a difference in the tone, the visuals and the voice i really like it - in my opinion you really differentiate from other reviewers and slways look forward to your videos! So stoked whats more to come in VR/ Mixed Reality😍❤️ thanks!
After relentlessly watching as much Vision Pro content on UA-cam...your videos are works of art. They only ones that I watch on normal speed. As a video editor, I really appreciate the extra work you put into your videos.
Long time viewer, first time commenter. The music, editing, insights, advice and contributions. Flawless. Thanks for all your hard work and keep it up dude!
Like many others have said, we are really waiting for your review, the best and the most authentic reviews we can get about this vr industry. And it absolutely ate, great job! Thank you for your hard work!
I haven't tried the Vision Pro, but the fact it lacks so many shared experiences is insane to me. Someone on Reddit posted a recent story of introducing his friend to the Quest 3. They were several hundred miles away, and they were playing Pokerstars VR. After closing the app, he could immediately see his room, with his friend several hundred miles away, and the same for his friend. The fact you can't do that on Vision Pro is *fucking* wild to me. Spending 3500 just to do work a little more effectively is insane to me. The Vision Pro is really cool hardware wise, but to me, it just seems like it gets boring after a week of owning.
After closing the app, he could immediately see his room, with his friend several hundred miles away, and the same for his friend. The fact you can't do that on Vision Pro is fucking wild to me" I don't understand what you mean. When you turn of and take off the Vision Pro you can then also see your room. What am I not getting?
@@glennwatson3313 They were still using the headsets just in the default environment you get when you're not playing a game, but the headset put a virtual version of their friend in the room with them. At least for now Apple apparently has no way of sharing your VR experience with anyone else, even if they also have a headset.
@@glennwatson3313 He means his friend appeared in his room with him after closing the game. The Quest 3 can put your friend's avatar into the room with you in pass thru mode. The Quest 3 has a bunch of support for social experiences like this whereas the Vision Pro is more or less a completely isolating VR experience. The only social thing the Vision Pro has is its weird facetime support which gives you just flat 2D displays of other people like a video call but worse. The Vision Pro is completely missing any immersive socialization capability.
He makes a lot of his own music and has a music channel so you'd probably have to get permission to use it also if you're including the song at the end in the question it's called Claire De Lune and it's a really old classical song so you could probably find a good royalty free cover of it somewhere.
I've kept up with all the major reviews and impressions videos on the AVP and have been excitedly waiting for this exact video. I've also worked in the VR industry for years and this is by far the most educated, well thought out, and informative video covering the AVP I have ever seen. Thank you so much.
VR Users: bro i just wanna play some cool games Meta: I hear you, the Metaverse will be here soon! VR Users: … why- Apple: Hi wanna play some mobile games and take pictures with a plant box on your face!?! VR Users: … I think ima just boot of my virtual boy.
This is true. I learned that for myself when I tried the Pimax Crystal. Brad was the most accurate. Too many youtube hype merchants around making affiliate money.
I bought Quest 3 recently just to watch for myself wtat VR is about. And to watch movies lying down in bed. This is the great thing about Quest 3, the price tag. 500$ is not a big deal.
Great review! Happy to finally see this headset reviewed by a source I trust when it says "this is amazing" when it’s amazing and "this sucks" not only because it’s apple. Also, I see you using the Metallic Rouge OST, caught me completely off-guard how full of gems the soundtrack is when I first heard it. xD
I feel like a good tag line for the vision pro would be some thing like the "worlds greatest tech demo" it does what it specialises at very good but is to limited and expensive to be genuinely useful to most people.
Finally the most awaited video about AVP is here. I watched a lot of reviews already but this is the most important one for me. You never disappoint, thank you!
I'll tell you one thing VR needs in the near future, much better frikin' field of view. Get a Quest 4 that's basically the same as the Quest 3 but with a much bigger field of view and the eye tracking cameras and stuff so it could mimic Vision Pro UI navigation, as well as keep the price to $500 max, and I think we be onto a real winner.
doing that for under $500 does not sound possible within any less than 5 years unless it's a pcvr headset, and even then that seems like a huge maybe. that's extremely wishful thinking, and high end headsets are still pushing to even figure out how the hell to make fov much wider. and then once they figure it out I'm sure it'll take years for zuck to pick it up
the worst part of the AVP is the general "walled garden" philosophy that apple puts into their products. The best part of the AVP is the general "if we do it, we do it RIGHT" philosophy that apple puts into their products.
I've watched a couple reviews from much bigger channels and for some reason I still had no idea this is capable of fully immersive spacial apps. I legit thought that apple had limited it to floating windows in pass through or their pre-baked environments. Almost seems like apple really threw the ball with their marketing. Hands down the best review for this headset!
they didnt throw the ball, that just isn't a segment apple is interested in. gaming is going to be with the quest, at a fraction of the cost, there is no reason to compete on the gaming side of things. and apple has really never been a company TRULY interested in gaming. IMO this review is just a review from a vr gamers perspective, the other reviews are from a more regular persons perspective, apples target audience is the latter, not the former. Not that its a bad review, it just offers a different perspective to the other reviews, imo though that perspective is not from the target audience apple is looking to capture with this headset.
Besides using it as a macbook screen or a ´productivity´ tool apparently theres nothing to do on it, meta is focus on gaming, personally i still don´t see the point in vr/ar for now.
@@weird-guy That's alright, you don't have to see the point. The 2 TRILLION dollar company see's the point, and that should say everything that needs to be said.
Thanks a lot for making this video! I did the demo for Vision Pro, and I thought it was amazing, but this really puts it into proper context and I appreciate that!
Excited to finally hear your thoughts on this! It’s been AMAZE-ing (😉) to see how much we can push Apple Vision Pro’s processing power and 4K displays to showcase our VR Concerts/Immersive Experiences!
Pls NO ... Absolutely NOT .... If companys now start to ditch controllers because APPLE did it Like HOW .... Would u Controll movement in ANY game ... Thats is not stationary..... Selling a headset with no controllers is a STUPID decision and i sincerely hope apple makes no money on this like Zero let the right people develop VR apple just does shit so Differently that at some point they run out of ideas and the whole productline becomes stagnant look at iPhones.... They havnt changed in YEARS in any significant way Whilst android phones keep developing and experimenting not as much as back in the day BUT STILL The second i heard AVP and the bullshit with calling it Spacial Computing not VR and then people started calling VR SC instead i already felt like i wanna leave this planet I still miss my good old headphone jack ..... On my ANDROID phones .... Apple ships phones without chargers and all the others copy this "trend" Pleaaase for the love of everything thats holy i beg let apple loose money on this so they Stop fucking up the VR industry
Need some kind of unified eye tracking, hand tracking and controller input. Like a virtual cursor that can switch between the three inputs intuitive somehow.
@@eon5323 Yep, It's actually frustrating that I have to physically set my controller down to use hand tracking in the quest 3. I'm using it standing up so there isn't exactly a convenient place to put my controllers. The lack of eye tracking in the quest 3 is where I feel meta dropped the ball because dynamic foveated render like we see in the psvr2 need to happen if we want high resolution games without killing performance by trying to render at those full high resolution that these displays have.
I love Apple, but they can be stubborn as hell. They want everybody to just get used to the way they want us to navigate. But it's kinda of horseshit that that requires doing away with controllers that would make gaming WAY better. If they allowed for controllers and Steam.. oh boy.. I might even get one.
And do what? Apple is what they do... Take existing tech and concepts, bundle it all up. Fisher-Price it down for the masses and put a shiny wrapper on it. Then keeps the keys to their garden of walls where every thing is soldered and locked down. Their kingdom, their rules. Expect the AVP to stay simple.
@@parttimehuman gamers arent and have never been apples target audience. they quite honestly just dont care if you buy one or not as you aren't who they are trying to get to buy one. Apple is very clearly aiming for people who haven't bought VR before and would likely never use it for gaming.
So many tech channels covering vr, but I always get super excited for a new video from Thrill. Hopefully he'll soon get more recognition that he deserves. Much love from Czechia ❤
The definitive review is out. As as a VP and Q3 user I feel like this was very fair to both units and I like the conclusion you drew about how they compliment each other by focusing on different areas of the user experience. We do have a long way to go, but after working in VP for weeks now I’m convinced we are going there.
I’ve been waiting for the VR GOAT to chime in. As expected, this was the most accurate assessment of the AVP, especially when comparing it to Quest 3. You did a great job nuancing the two devices, giving the AVP and the Quest 3 their flowers for their respective strengths. All the reviews are either Apple Fanboys with biased views or Quest heads bitter about the price of the AVP trying to claim that the Quest 3 was just as good at productivity as the AVP. You nailed everything, down to their different use cases and the audiences they’re targeting. As someone that owns both I salute you!
I think the stepping stone aspect of the Vision Pro is what is really important, one of the biggest companies such as Apple stepping into XR is super important
I dont know, its too pricy. I think this is going to be a one and done tbh. Probably only valves next vr headset will be affordable while still having good tech. 3500 in 2024 is just an impossible ask even for a vr enthusiast.
@@ceoofsony5924 yeah it’s absolutely too pricey, I just think the effort of Apple stepping into it might make other companies want to try stepping into the market which just means more happening for Vr and Ar
@@ceoofsony5924but it’s not for vr enthusiasts it’s first gen, and meant for productivity. I personally like LTT’s take it’s not overpriced and it’s an incredibly advanced device but that doesn’t mean it’s worth the money. You’ve got to judge things for legitimate reasons
@@ceoofsony5924I completely agree it’s overpriced, I just think the fact that one of the worlds biggest companies is stepping into the VR and AR market is hopefully going to bring more companies and more competition which is absolutely needed
I almost solely use the Q3 without the controllers. If the Q3 can connect to the PC as easy as the VP can connect to a mac with the mouse user interface, I would be 10x happy. I am just trying to replace my monitors efficiently.
So annoying right?? The non VR expert UA-camrs praising the hell out of the Vision Pro without mentioning important drawbacks like high persistence, lack of shared experiences, etc.
software and hardware wise its the most impressive headset I have seen to date however, its just not a needed device for alot of people, but its an amazing glimpse of the future of the tech once it starts to trickle down if anything I hope meta takes this as a sign to remove alot of the bloat of the questOS and streamline it all
Pretty much nailed it. I got to say that it is the first headset that I've been able to wear comfortably for 10 hours a day. I think that mostly it comes down to the options for the facial interface.
Finally, a software review on the inside of the product, by a professional that is not just flexing the new expensive hardware he just bought.... With a combination of no understanding of VR equipment (99% of youtube VP reviews) Best VP review to date. Too many people want to tell you about what they have with no idea what they have. Thanks Thrill!
Look, aside from your insight and info (all great perspectives, btw), can we just sit back and appreciate the PRODUCTION on this video? And all of ThrillSeeker's stuff? I mean this is some top notch content! Kudos to you and whatever production team you've got working with you, dude. This shit is magical. Visual, audio, editing (I work in a professional setting for TV) this stuff is A-tier. Keep doing what you do, and keep bringing us that sweet VR info, my dude.
Exactly! I do extremely appreciate just that, the superb quality of ThrillSeeker's content! He(and whoever helps him) is doing absolutely amazing work!
I actually think that vision pro is actually damaging the perception of VR with its price tag like the mobile/Google cardboard headsets did. Vision pro will get boring a year after without proper controllers or satisfying gaming functionalities this headset will never age well. Uncomfortable, too heavy, too late and too expensive...
This hits the nail on the head - as expected. I've told all the people talking about how Vision Pro flopped, that it's probably tipically Apple like the best fundamentals device in the VR tech corner. Reassuring that you see it that way too! Thank you for taking the time and making a great review
@@ThrillSeekerVR Can you tell us why? Are you trying to protect your privacy? Do you have horrible acne? Were you disfigured in an automobile accident? Are you insecure about your looks?
That was a fantastic review. As someone who owns both the AVP and Q3 (and thinks both are rad for different reasons) you nailed the pluses and minuses of the AVP as well as why we should be thrilled for the competition and the future.
00:00 🎮 The Vision Pro is hailed as the most nuanced and divisive VR headset, combining remarkable advancements with notable shortcomings. 07:59 🧠 Vision OS enhances user experience with intuitive navigation, leveraging familiar UI elements from iOS and macOS. 10:29 🌄 Environments in Vision Pro offer immersive experiences, blending virtual and real-world elements seamlessly. 14:14 🛠 Vision Pro serves as a powerful tool for productivity, consolidating multiple devices into a single, versatile platform. 19:02 💰 The Vision Pro's price point and limitations raise concerns about its value proposition and market positioning. 19:11 🔍 Steam VR compatibility expands the Vision Pro's gaming capabilities, despite complex setup requirements. 19:38 🔥 The Quest 3, while lacking in raw hardware specs, offers impressive value and competes effectively with the Vision Pro. 19:59 🔄 Both the Vision Pro and Quest 3 represent positive advancements in the VR industry, catering to different market segments.
Probably the most reasonable AVP review. The mainstream reviews are mostly VR casuals so it's good to see the perspective of dedicated VR channels. While I'm not a big fan of Apple, there is no denying that this will push forward VR tech and adoption which is a win for us all.
How will it push anything the thing doesn't have controllers ?
I also dont understand how thrill can call this "competition" the thing is 3500 bucks
For a Goolge cardboard with an iphone inside ..... Yea nah
The AVP could have pushed but apple did what apple does and did it different so differently to a point the darn thing HAS NO CONTROLLERS .......
Its garbage only morons and influencers buy so they can show it of to said morons
AVP shows the path to productivity just when the last hype was moving towards the through of disillusionment.
Yep, this is the video serious VR aficionado's have been waiting for, not Brownlee's blatant fanboying (but I guess Trill's income does not depend on keeping Apple sweet).
The lack of controllers is a massive oversight and deal-breaker. Gestures are fine for simple, serial tasks, but controllers allow multiple parallel inputs. It just goes to show how little Apple understand gaming, the 3d arts, or VR locomotion.There's a reason we still use keyboards and don't write documents by painstakingly drawing letters in the air.
@@EvileDikI honestly defend Apple with this move. I think many would agree that if hand an eye tracking gets good enough they’d rather not use a controller. It was a necessary move to differentiate themselves also, cause they undercut their marketing of the hand and eye tracking if they add controllers. Also it’s not a gaming headset and I doubt it ever will be. The only con is you have to get a MacBook to really use the productivity gains. Good thing is many people have MacBooks already but I think they should add keyboard and mouse support via Bluetooth, then many more people would gladly use the device, probably.
Mark my...@@Words-. 🤣 Apple will release Controller Pods for it.
I hate how so many other tech reviewers get millions of views on their vision pro videos, but you clearly are the most experienced VR tech reviewer on UA-cam and views are currently sitting at 70K. Obviously there's some factor as far as timing, but you deserve so much more. Thank you for your in-depth reviews of what remains to be a fairly niche market (when compared against average consumers).
it's easy to get millions when they have millions of subs
Problem is that this is a niche channel compared to Linus Tech Tips or whatnot, it’s nothing against Thrill, but when you have a more diverse audience of ten million plus subscribers the numbers are just going to skew higher, it just one of those ratio things.
this vr headset is the most useless device apple has ever created by far, i can't remember a more useless device apple has created since the alluminum lock for the trash can apple pro that didn't have the same material then the metal of the trash can and stood out like a sore thumb.
FINALLY THE THRILL AVP VIDEOOO
We don't like you.
John is here. John is coming. He is coming for you
FINALLYYYYYY .....now Phia's Vpro video
YAAAAA
LETS GOOOOO!
i've so been waiting for this review. someone with knowledge of the VR scene and not just multi-million-subscriber tech bros and news outlets. thank you for the work you do
The one review to rule them all. Despite all the drawbacks, the clip of you sitting at the lake with all those different programs and windows running together and seeing the holographic VST display float above the physical keyboard was still probably the coolest and most compelling demo I have seen for vision pro. That and seeing steam VR working, it’ll be sweet to see what people can do with this thing given some time.
We are literally living in the future. Not gonna be long till VR/AR gets integrated with AI and we get some crazy stuff.
Do we know how he got Windows running? I know it may seem like a stupid question but I genuinely completely believed that there was no way Apple would let you use a windows PC in their headset, since it completely goes against their profits. Can anybody provide details on how well this works?
@@yourmomsboyfriend3337 I’m using moonlight to connect to PC and can even do an ultrawide screen!
I ran ChatGPT by the virtual lake the other day, and it was the closest thing I’ve experienced to being on the Holodeck and having a conversation with “Computer!”
I use the parsec app for iPad to connect to my pc. Really any Remote Desktop tool has an app. A bit janky but it gets the job done. Bit of a pain to use the mouse since you can’t use one natively in visionOS.
@@yourmomsboyfriend3337
I fixed my Quest 2 and jumped in after 7 months and I'm actually honestly impressed how great the hand tracking on the Q2 actually is.
What? Im always so pissed using it. Mostly without the controllers. Sits beside my desk
@@apfelsolutions9685 the hand tracking is amazing, I occasionally use my q2 ONLY because of hand tracking
@@apfelsolutions9685its not metas fault a 4 year old expects a headset from 2020 to have something from a headset from 2024
I've watched Marques' review and some other big channels' reviews on the Vision pro but there's never a doubt in my mind that the absolute best review on the thing would come from you. So I, and apparently many others, have been excitingly waiting. NOBODY knows VR/XR like you and nobody can push the AVP like you can. This is great, I thank you for your service.
Tbf, you won't have the full picture about AVP without others. I feel it's just another perspective that only Thrill can provide.
I watched several reviewers and many of them had some piece of new information.
Let's see what Thril and Brad can provide.
@@RanmaruRei you're right. I of course got a lot of other infos on the device along with different perspectives on their experiences using it, but for the essence of what it can provide and what it's truly worth amongst the tons of VR headsets out there, only Thrill can give.
The iPhone convinced everyone of its value in one keynote. The AVP has relied on advocates to push it along. I don’t think many people see any value in it as part of their daily life.
@@bloopbleepnothinghereI remember, myself included, people thinking the iPad was pointless and who would want something’s that’s so big you won’t use it as a phone, yet not a computer? On paper it was stupid. Once I got one, it’s my main computation device. The only reason I fire up my Mac is to record music or install updates to make music. 90% of my emailing, 30% of my texting, most of my internet browsing, 90% of my UA-cam viewing, and 25% of my music listening, and 80% of my social networking is done on my iPad.
@@TheWolfCub71 ever tried using a pc? :D like you dont even know what you are missing if you are satisfied with a tablet... except you are a full on casual user then apple will give you the only "flawless" experience but i could never imagine sticking to a mobile device for music production or even limiting myself to only one device.... like for the money of your devices i would buy synth and recording equipment and still a decent pc/laptop to fill some gaps.... no mobile device if android or apple will ever give you the full range of possibility
As someone with ADHD, this looks like the ultimate productivity *killer*
No one, seriously no one, has more experience communicating headsets than our boi Thrill
Well besides experts who just so happen to not be youtubers.
Definitely a more valuable opinion than most other big reviewers, considering he's a matter expert
You want to tell me that developers and creators of the products know it less?!?! LOL 🤣
@@drone-vision"more experience communicating headsets" Yes, I guarantee he is better at communicating the strengths, weaknesses, and points people care about to the general public than the majority of the developers of the headsets. Technical details or how they really work, no shot he knows better than the devs, but devs are notoriously bad at communicating with non-developers. Then the people paid to be communicators of it are going to downplay weaknesses.
@@BilboSwagginsTheThird every big company have a team that looks through competitor products, breaking down its functionality and then adjusting their own products. Watch this space soon Quest 3 will have their functionality updated....
Best AVP review. Period. Beyond tech, beyond numbers, beyond brands… just a real VR lover perspective opinion. I must say you are the only one youtuber I know that really distills that love for the XR and what it could become someday. The VR community really needs your work.
finally a review i can completely trust
Was patiently waiting for this lol
Same here lol
I always appreciate the beautiful filmmaking and editing you put into your videos!
it's good because it's a start, a proof of concept. it's bad because it's a long way from the goal, a long way to go. but either way it's a step forward and that's something to be proud of.
Well this channel honestly is for and by gamers. Apple has never and imo will never be a gaming company as much as just a tech company. I worked there for five years and their mindset towards gaming is almost non existent. What I am excited for is other companies replicating the vision pro and taking it in those directions for cheaper like androids did with iphones.
@@juniorc1521 indeed!
It's been 10 years since the early Rift versions, yet we can write the exact same message about early Rifts and Vision Pro. Good start, proof of concept, long way from the goal. I thought 10 years ago that VR would be further ahead by now.
@@RawArt0 i mean it has taken us how long to perfect computers? and we are only getting to quantum computers within the past couple years, things take time and VR hasn't had quite the spotlight other mediums have had, but i digress you have some excellent points. (edit: let alone the fact we haven't even perfected computers, forgot to mention that.)
Unless form factor becomes the size of sunglasses it will not become mainstream imo.
I was WAITING so long for this video... Thank God you're alive and well. This video is beautiful and well put together.
Beautifully done. Well worth the wait. 😎
Your video production is of top quality! Sound, music, video, content, enthusiasm, realism, criticism, praises.... all top notch in my opinion.
Thank you a ton, for producing such super enjoyable and interesting content on your channel!
Just an hour ago I went to your channel thinking maybe youtube wasn't pushing your videos to me anymore since it has been awhile and was shocked there wasn't a vid, just a few minutes later it arrived. Awesome content.
You felt the video coming in the ethers lol, you felt a disturbance in the force! 🤣
Ever heard of the subscription section? All I do is refresh that page a couple times a day, easy, no idea why anyone wouldn't use the best feature on UA-cam
@@ThomasLeichardtlol, I literally woke up today and just thought “thrill seeker probably released something” and sure enough, there it was
I'm watching this in a virtual room on my Quest 3.
I just realized, how insanely far we've come. From Google Cardbox to the Oculus Dev Kit, from HTC Vive to the first Quest - I have the feeling that VR and AR are slowly maturing and growing up. There's still a long way to go, we're still at the beginning - but holy moly, it's getting good.
It's so great that Apple is offering competition. This is going to shake up the market sooo much! Quest 3 facelift with eye tracking wouldn't surprise me ;)
Claire the lune basically sums up the beauty of this advancement well. Thank you for the beautiful video!
I'm so excited for the future!
It feels like we're still at the early cell phone stages before smart phones came.
Someday soon there will be released a product that will completely revolutionize the entire VR/AR industry the same way Steve Jobs managed to revolutionize phones.
@@bok4822 that's definitely the direction they're trying to take with apple right now. They've found a market they can try and do the same thing they did with the iPhone.
Problem is, Steve ain't around anymore, and vr/ar is NOT the market and societal advancement, becoming a near necessity that cellphones had encompassed.
I look forward to the future here.
It's hard for me to imagine using vr/mr without the haptic feedback of a controller. Like punching something on the quest feels so good because the controller vibrate.
@@dannylifted I imagine haptic gloves coming soon
@@maxman1244 I'd be happy with a haptic watch / fit bit like device that is worn on each wrist.
The most complete and balanced review of the Vision Pro I've watched so far.
It was well worth the wait, thank you.
Thank you for this review, I've been waiting for someone like you who really has the experience and the knowledge of the current state of VR/MR market to do a review like this.
This is by far the best Vision Pro review I’ve ever seen, and the one I’ve been waiting for! It really puts things into perspective and looks at the big picture
Love your reviews, there is a difference in the tone, the visuals and the voice i really like it - in my opinion you really differentiate from other reviewers and slways look forward to your videos!
So stoked whats more to come in VR/ Mixed Reality😍❤️ thanks!
After relentlessly watching as much Vision Pro content on UA-cam...your videos are works of art. They only ones that I watch on normal speed. As a video editor, I really appreciate the extra work you put into your videos.
Long time viewer, first time commenter.
The music, editing, insights, advice and contributions.
Flawless. Thanks for all your hard work and keep it up dude!
Thanks, was waiting for your review.
I do very much apprechiate that you took your time, because I mostly value your opinion on that front
Like many others have said, we are really waiting for your review, the best and the most authentic reviews we can get about this vr industry. And it absolutely ate, great job! Thank you for your hard work!
I haven't tried the Vision Pro, but the fact it lacks so many shared experiences is insane to me.
Someone on Reddit posted a recent story of introducing his friend to the Quest 3. They were several hundred miles away, and they were playing Pokerstars VR. After closing the app, he could immediately see his room, with his friend several hundred miles away, and the same for his friend. The fact you can't do that on Vision Pro is *fucking* wild to me.
Spending 3500 just to do work a little more effectively is insane to me. The Vision Pro is really cool hardware wise, but to me, it just seems like it gets boring after a week of owning.
After closing the app, he could immediately see his room, with his friend several hundred miles away, and the same for his friend. The fact you can't do that on Vision Pro is fucking wild to me"
I don't understand what you mean. When you turn of and take off the Vision Pro you can then also see your room. What am I not getting?
@@glennwatson3313 When you join a friend in online games, you can close apps, and see your friends avatar in your room, with passthrough
@@glennwatson3313 They were still using the headsets just in the default environment you get when you're not playing a game, but the headset put a virtual version of their friend in the room with them. At least for now Apple apparently has no way of sharing your VR experience with anyone else, even if they also have a headset.
@@glennwatson3313 He means his friend appeared in his room with him after closing the game. The Quest 3 can put your friend's avatar into the room with you in pass thru mode.
The Quest 3 has a bunch of support for social experiences like this whereas the Vision Pro is more or less a completely isolating VR experience. The only social thing the Vision Pro has is its weird facetime support which gives you just flat 2D displays of other people like a video call but worse. The Vision Pro is completely missing any immersive socialization capability.
@@Reddles37 OK now I see. I have the Quest 3 but I have not experienced that situation. I don't play poker.
Thank you for the review, it's greatly appreciated!
By the way, could you please provide information about the music used? I would love to use them.
من زمان عن قناتكم
He makes a lot of his own music and has a music channel so you'd probably have to get permission to use it also if you're including the song at the end in the question it's called Claire De Lune and it's a really old classical song so you could probably find a good royalty free cover of it somewhere.
Finally, you're the first youtube page I checked when the headset hit the stores! It nice to your take on things
Thanks!
This is the one review I was waiting for
Waited for Thrill's review, totally worth the wait. Keep up the good work!
Been waiting for impressions by people with similar use cases to me
I've kept up with all the major reviews and impressions videos on the AVP and have been excitedly waiting for this exact video. I've also worked in the VR industry for years and this is by far the most educated, well thought out, and informative video covering the AVP I have ever seen. Thank you so much.
Oh good, THE apple Vision Pro review is out!
VR Users: bro i just wanna play some cool games
Meta: I hear you, the Metaverse will be here soon!
VR Users: … why-
Apple: Hi wanna play some mobile games and take pictures with a plant box on your face!?!
VR Users: … I think ima just boot of my virtual boy.
Yes Yes Yes, you and brad are the ones with the valuable input. Can't wait to watch : 3
This is true. I learned that for myself when I tried the Pimax Crystal. Brad was the most accurate. Too many youtube hype merchants around making affiliate money.
I bought Quest 3 recently just to watch for myself wtat VR is about. And to watch movies lying down in bed. This is the great thing about Quest 3, the price tag. 500$ is not a big deal.
Great review! Happy to finally see this headset reviewed by a source I trust when it says "this is amazing" when it’s amazing and "this sucks" not only because it’s apple.
Also, I see you using the Metallic Rouge OST, caught me completely off-guard how full of gems the soundtrack is when I first heard it. xD
I feel like a good tag line for the vision pro would be some thing like the "worlds greatest tech demo" it does what it specialises at very good but is to limited and expensive to be genuinely useful to most people.
Ive been craving for this for a week
Finally the most awaited video about AVP is here. I watched a lot of reviews already but this is the most important one for me. You never disappoint, thank you!
Literally here within the first 5 minutes I could not wait for this
I love how hopeful you are in expecting both companies to step up and meet the needs of consumers. Never loose that joy.❤🤗
this the only review i was waiting for
I like how everyone is in agreement this is the best review it's so wholesome to see
God can this be #1 on trending? This is literally the best review over the Vision pro. Im so glad you took your time on this, it’s a great vid! 🙏
I'll tell you one thing VR needs in the near future, much better frikin' field of view. Get a Quest 4 that's basically the same as the Quest 3 but with a much bigger field of view and the eye tracking cameras and stuff so it could mimic Vision Pro UI navigation, as well as keep the price to $500 max, and I think we be onto a real winner.
doing that for under $500 does not sound possible within any less than 5 years unless it's a pcvr headset, and even then that seems like a huge maybe. that's extremely wishful thinking, and high end headsets are still pushing to even figure out how the hell to make fov much wider. and then once they figure it out I'm sure it'll take years for zuck to pick it up
Yeah keeping the price at 500 is just silly. Double the price. I dont care. Still a great value
the worst part of the AVP is the general "walled garden" philosophy that apple puts into their products.
The best part of the AVP is the general "if we do it, we do it RIGHT" philosophy that apple puts into their products.
Honestly, pairing the AVP with a keyboard turns it immediately useful. I travel a lot for work, already very happy with the purchase
Return of the King
he never left to return...quality videos take time that is all
I appreciate someone actually taking their time to provide a well thought out review, rather than rushing to get the “clout” attention.
I've watched a couple reviews from much bigger channels and for some reason I still had no idea this is capable of fully immersive spacial apps. I legit thought that apple had limited it to floating windows in pass through or their pre-baked environments. Almost seems like apple really threw the ball with their marketing.
Hands down the best review for this headset!
they didnt throw the ball, that just isn't a segment apple is interested in. gaming is going to be with the quest, at a fraction of the cost, there is no reason to compete on the gaming side of things. and apple has really never been a company TRULY interested in gaming. IMO this review is just a review from a vr gamers perspective, the other reviews are from a more regular persons perspective, apples target audience is the latter, not the former. Not that its a bad review, it just offers a different perspective to the other reviews, imo though that perspective is not from the target audience apple is looking to capture with this headset.
@TalkTechSAGA I thought I was dump, Im still trying to understand the benefits of using a such device today
Besides using it as a macbook screen or a ´productivity´ tool apparently theres nothing to do on it, meta is focus on gaming, personally i still don´t see the point in vr/ar for now.
@@weird-guy That's alright, you don't have to see the point. The 2 TRILLION dollar company see's the point, and that should say everything that needs to be said.
Finally, I was waiting for this video for so long, great review
Thanks a lot for making this video! I did the demo for Vision Pro, and I thought it was amazing, but this really puts it into proper context and I appreciate that!
Absolutely amazing video! Really hope it gets the attention it deserves, despite being a bit late!
Been waiting for this video
Excited to finally hear your thoughts on this!
It’s been AMAZE-ing (😉) to see how much we can push Apple Vision Pro’s processing power and 4K displays to showcase our VR Concerts/Immersive Experiences!
And im enjoying 5k per eye on my pimax crystal, cant wait for 6k per eye with pimax 12k
@@iamboringvideos6832 no one asked
I truly hope that Quest headsets in the future will adapt the controls of the Vision Pro. This control scheme seems so much more intuitive to use.
and still have controllers for games
yea like having full hand tracking and eye tracking but oyu can switch to controllers for games, would be amazing@@maxmoch6044
Pls NO ... Absolutely NOT .... If companys now start to ditch controllers because APPLE did it
Like HOW .... Would u Controll movement in ANY game ... Thats is not stationary.....
Selling a headset with no controllers is a STUPID decision and i sincerely hope apple makes no money on this like Zero let the right people develop VR apple just does shit so Differently that at some point they run out of ideas and the whole productline becomes stagnant look at iPhones.... They havnt changed in YEARS in any significant way
Whilst android phones keep developing and experimenting not as much as back in the day BUT STILL
The second i heard AVP and the bullshit with calling it Spacial Computing not VR and then people started calling VR SC instead i already felt like i wanna leave this planet
I still miss my good old headphone jack ..... On my ANDROID phones ....
Apple ships phones without chargers and all the others copy this "trend" Pleaaase for the love of everything thats holy i beg let apple loose money on this so they Stop fucking up the VR industry
Need some kind of unified eye tracking, hand tracking and controller input. Like a virtual cursor that can switch between the three inputs intuitive somehow.
@@eon5323 Yep, It's actually frustrating that I have to physically set my controller down to use hand tracking in the quest 3. I'm using it standing up so there isn't exactly a convenient place to put my controllers. The lack of eye tracking in the quest 3 is where I feel meta dropped the ball because dynamic foveated render like we see in the psvr2 need to happen if we want high resolution games without killing performance by trying to render at those full high resolution that these displays have.
Thank you Thrill for creating excellent content! You are the #1 VR content creator for me and many.
Great review. I love your takes on it
Love your videos , this video hit the mail on the head 💪
I hope Apple watches this video, you nailed everything perfectly
Watching a video and actually making changes are two completely different things.
Don't hold your breath.
I love Apple, but they can be stubborn as hell. They want everybody to just get used to the way they want us to navigate. But it's kinda of horseshit that that requires doing away with controllers that would make gaming WAY better. If they allowed for controllers and Steam.. oh boy.. I might even get one.
And do what? Apple is what they do... Take existing tech and concepts, bundle it all up. Fisher-Price it down for the masses and put a shiny wrapper on it. Then keeps the keys to their garden of walls where every thing is soldered and locked down. Their kingdom, their rules. Expect the AVP to stay simple.
@@chaosengine3772 lol Jesus H
@@parttimehuman gamers arent and have never been apples target audience. they quite honestly just dont care if you buy one or not as you aren't who they are trying to get to buy one. Apple is very clearly aiming for people who haven't bought VR before and would likely never use it for gaming.
So many tech channels covering vr, but I always get super excited for a new video from Thrill. Hopefully he'll soon get more recognition that he deserves. Much love from Czechia ❤
I haven't watched any reviews in anticipation of this. Thanks for doing what you do
I have watched so many reviews and this is the best one.
Yes! Finally the review I've been waiting for! ❤
The definitive review is out. As as a VP and Q3 user I feel like this was very fair to both units and I like the conclusion you drew about how they compliment each other by focusing on different areas of the user experience. We do have a long way to go, but after working in VP for weeks now I’m convinced we are going there.
I’ve been waiting for the VR GOAT to chime in. As expected, this was the most accurate assessment of the AVP, especially when comparing it to Quest 3. You did a great job nuancing the two devices, giving the AVP and the Quest 3 their flowers for their respective strengths. All the reviews are either Apple Fanboys with biased views or Quest heads bitter about the price of the AVP trying to claim that the Quest 3 was just as good at productivity as the AVP. You nailed everything, down to their different use cases and the audiences they’re targeting. As someone that owns both I salute you!
I think the stepping stone aspect of the Vision Pro is what is really important, one of the biggest companies such as Apple stepping into XR is super important
I dont know, its too pricy. I think this is going to be a one and done tbh. Probably only valves next vr headset will be affordable while still having good tech. 3500 in 2024 is just an impossible ask even for a vr enthusiast.
@@ceoofsony5924 yeah it’s absolutely too pricey, I just think the effort of Apple stepping into it might make other companies want to try stepping into the market which just means more happening for Vr and Ar
@@ceoofsony5924but it’s not for vr enthusiasts it’s first gen, and meant for productivity. I personally like LTT’s take it’s not overpriced and it’s an incredibly advanced device but that doesn’t mean it’s worth the money. You’ve got to judge things for legitimate reasons
@@ceoofsony5924I completely agree it’s overpriced, I just think the fact that one of the worlds biggest companies is stepping into the VR and AR market is hopefully going to bring more companies and more competition which is absolutely needed
I almost solely use the Q3 without the controllers. If the Q3 can connect to the PC as easy as the VP can connect to a mac with the mouse user interface, I would be 10x happy. I am just trying to replace my monitors efficiently.
Been waiting excitedly for this one. Watched Marques' multiple videos on it even though I could never afford it.
Thank you for sharing your experiences with these devices. Always love hearing from you, Thrill.
After watching this review, it's just so obvious that all the other reviewers have nearly no experience with VR or knowledge of the industry...
So annoying right??
The non VR expert UA-camrs praising the hell out of the Vision Pro without mentioning important drawbacks like high persistence, lack of shared experiences, etc.
Among all of the other tech reviewers, I have been waiting for this one, and you delivered sir
software and hardware wise its the most impressive headset I have seen to date
however, its just not a needed device for alot of people, but its an amazing glimpse of the future of the tech once it starts to trickle down
if anything I hope meta takes this as a sign to remove alot of the bloat of the questOS and streamline it all
A lot.
NOT alot.
@@PSYCHOV3N0M thanks grammar police
Great vid, we were all waiting for yours haha. Always pushing great content for us ❤
Oh I was waiting with my article for like 2 weeks for you :)) thanks!
YOUR ABSOLUTELY WHAT WE ALL BEEN WAITING ON.....POINT BLANK PERIOD
Finally made a video about this
Was really waiting for an honest review from you, and that’s what I got. Thank you ♥
Pretty much nailed it. I got to say that it is the first headset that I've been able to wear comfortably for 10 hours a day. I think that mostly it comes down to the options for the facial interface.
as someone who has had both Quest 3 and Apple Vision Pro - this was a fair and accurate review. and the conclusion resonated with me.
finally i hear bad things about the vision pro and not just "this is the best thing ever with no flaws"
THIS!!!! Everyone else reviewing it that I've seen just raves about it and doesn't really know the VR market like Thrill does
I mean, there were a few since launch. So not entirely true. Especially if you look pass the "thumbnail" from trusted tech reviewers.
what? every review ive seen has said it has many flaws
I have been waiting for this video. You are the guy when it comes to Virtual Reality on UA-cam!
Finally the only review of the Pro that matters!
This is the only Vision Pro video. I’ve been actually waiting for
Thank you so much for your insightful review and I love that Hatsune Miku shirt.
Finally, a software review on the inside of the product, by a professional that is not just flexing the new expensive hardware he just bought.... With a combination of no understanding of VR equipment (99% of youtube VP reviews) Best VP review to date.
Too many people want to tell you about what they have with no idea what they have.
Thanks Thrill!
11:13 A wild Pussy Cat APPEARED (Battle?)
If i could play VRC on a Vision Pro, It would be my Spicey Tuna
Apparently saying pussy gets MSG deleted
If a VR headset makes Phia's jaw drop, there's something to it!
Look, aside from your insight and info (all great perspectives, btw), can we just sit back and appreciate the PRODUCTION on this video? And all of ThrillSeeker's stuff? I mean this is some top notch content! Kudos to you and whatever production team you've got working with you, dude. This shit is magical. Visual, audio, editing (I work in a professional setting for TV) this stuff is A-tier. Keep doing what you do, and keep bringing us that sweet VR info, my dude.
Exactly! I do extremely appreciate just that, the superb quality of ThrillSeeker's content! He(and whoever helps him) is doing absolutely amazing work!
I actually think that vision pro is actually damaging the perception of VR with its price tag like the mobile/Google cardboard headsets did. Vision pro will get boring a year after without proper controllers or satisfying gaming functionalities this headset will never age well. Uncomfortable, too heavy, too late and too expensive...
It's kind of cheap compared to the Varjo XR-4.
This hits the nail on the head - as expected. I've told all the people talking about how Vision Pro flopped, that it's probably tipically Apple like the best fundamentals device in the VR tech corner. Reassuring that you see it that way too! Thank you for taking the time and making a great review
I’m worried about our boy. He is can I ask this without getting downvoted… what’s with the mask inside your own apartment?
Looks like he's made a character out of being a paranoid sheep.
I just don't show my face, about it
@@ThrillSeekerVR Can you tell us why? Are you trying to protect your privacy? Do you have horrible acne? Were you disfigured in an automobile accident? Are you insecure about your looks?
I’ve seen them all & this is the best Vision Pro vid to date big big thanks
lol, why do you still wear a mask in doors at home?? uhhh
Very odd he is 🗿
Well summarised. You have come a long way since the old days.
You are much more relaxed, chill even.
0:57 the bloke is wearing a mask inside his own house?
Yeah thats the first thing i saw and said WTF. Makes it hard to believe anything he says
That was a fantastic review. As someone who owns both the AVP and Q3 (and thinks both are rad for different reasons) you nailed the pluses and minuses of the AVP as well as why we should be thrilled for the competition and the future.
Why are you wearing a mask alone in your house?
He hasn't done a face reveal yet.
@@BagelDann no freaking way how long is this channel been going? Imagine if he has the most luscious lips hahahaha 😂
true, he's probably scarred well try and take them if we see em
Because he's BATMAN!!!! 💯😎
00:00 🎮 The Vision Pro is hailed as the most nuanced and divisive VR headset, combining remarkable advancements with notable shortcomings.
07:59 🧠 Vision OS enhances user experience with intuitive navigation, leveraging familiar UI elements from iOS and macOS.
10:29 🌄 Environments in Vision Pro offer immersive experiences, blending virtual and real-world elements seamlessly.
14:14 🛠 Vision Pro serves as a powerful tool for productivity, consolidating multiple devices into a single, versatile platform.
19:02 💰 The Vision Pro's price point and limitations raise concerns about its value proposition and market positioning.
19:11 🔍 Steam VR compatibility expands the Vision Pro's gaming capabilities, despite complex setup requirements.
19:38 🔥 The Quest 3, while lacking in raw hardware specs, offers impressive value and competes effectively with the Vision Pro.
19:59 🔄 Both the Vision Pro and Quest 3 represent positive advancements in the VR industry, catering to different market segments.