Progressive Christianity's 3 LIES About Romans 1
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- Опубліковано 12 вер 2024
- "Progressive Christianity" has a particular way of interpreting Romans 1 that makes it sound like it doesn't mean what we think it means. They accuse Bible-believing Christians of not doing their homework on these passages, and try to use clever arguments to undermine the historic interpretations of it. So in this video I want to look at 3 of the worst lies about Romans 1 and debunk them.
Instagram: @allthingstheology
TikTok: @all_things_theology
Camera: Canon M50
Lens: 50mm 1:8
Mic: Shure SM7B
Music: Epidemic Sound
You could also add that in Leviticus 20, BOTH males are punished. So unless Robertson wants to argue that a child is responsible for pederastry, I think his argument falls flat.
Right enough, that hadn’t occurred to me. You should start your own theology channel lol
Brandon preached that Jesus was a racist until he was called to repent and heal the woman that he used a racial slur against. Don't take him seriously this way.
Really good point! Thanks for sharing it.
@@CynHicks yeah Brandon is a wild man. I struggle to get the balance right between being kind and gracious to him, but also calling him out for being such a destructive false teacher. It's a hard one, especially on the internet
Excellent point!!!
If God made cups and God made saucers, is it beyond the realms of possibility that He should say cups should only go with saucers and not cups? Oh but God gave me the desire to go with a cup!
So does God also give men a desire for children? No. It's all the result of the fall.
Only one Gospel:
The Gospel of Reconciliation.
Jesus Christ came into THEIR kingdom
to reconcile fallen angels unto Himself.
We are the fallen angels (ELOHIM) kept in DNA chains of darkness.
If you do not confess being a fallen angel in Lucifer's kingdom, then you are an unbeliever.
Unbeliever = those that claim to be made in the image of ELOHIM(gods).
REPENT FALLEN ANGELS.
how is child rape even the same thing as 2 adult consenting men in love
And Jesus hates homophobia @@qwerty-so6ml
On point number two they take both sides of that argument and say it points to their position. They say, "Paul didn't know about good gay relationships" but they also point to Greek mythology and Sappho to say, "people have been gay since forever therefore it's good", things that Paul absolutely would've known about, like, you can't have both.
Yeah that's true! I've also heard people say similar things about trans people - that they've always existed. I wonder how progressives would respond to that because those two things do clearly contradict each other.
@@AllThingsTheology nothing to do with progressive, homophob ia has always been a sin since day dot
I “accidentally” came across the video/your channel and I am glad I did. Thank you for addressing these issues in such a well thought out way. May God open up more opportunities for your metron to increase (despite the YT algorithm).
Thank you, that's very kind! Admittedly UA-cam growth can be a little frustrating, but I try and keep my focus on the people who are helped by these videos. So thanks for sharing, it's very encouraging.
Too bad you didn't have the sense to keep scrolling.
you know homophobia is a sin?
Love the style of your videos, and how you discuss the context behind these scriptures in detail. Great content! You got a new subscriber! God bless!
Thank you, the encouragement is much appreciated and I’m glad it’s been helpful for you 😊
Helpful video. I learned something
Thanks, I'm glad to hear that!
Excellent as always 😊 Could you do a video explaining the problems with what Brandon Robertson says about how the gospel of Jesus Christ and the gospel that Paul preaches are different? I think that would be really beneficial for people who watch his stuff and are being drawn in by his lies.
thank you, I’m glad you enjoyed this :) and that’s a good idea actually! I might make a few more videos refuting progressive teachings - they take a lot more time because I want to understand and accurately represent them, but I think it’s worth doing if it turns people away from his false teaching.
@@AllThingsTheology it’s really sad how big a following these false teachers have 😣
@@JonathanHallyburtonMusic totally - Brandon Robertson has like a quarter of a million followers on TikTok. Very sad to see so many people being deceived
Awesome video
Thank you :)
Hi Andrew, I have just discovered "All Things Theology", and this is the first time I have heard you (not the whole talk). The second half of Romans 1 is not primarily about sexual sin; it is primarily about idolatory (Romans 1 v 21-25). If one worships idols, sinful behaviour will follow. The pagans who worshipped other "gods" therefore indulged in sinful sexual behaviour. This happened both in Old Testament times as well as in Paul's time. The solution must deal with the root cause; pagans must repent and turn from idols to worship and to serve the living God. Changes in their behaviour, including their sexual behaviour, should follow.
Hey, thanks for commenting and I hope you find the stuff on the channel helpful! I agree - sexual sin is used by Paul as an example of people turning away from God. It's not a stretch to say that all sin has idolatry at its root, because all sin is an attempt to put something in the place of God.
Perhaps part of the reason why sinful sexual behavior followed in Romans 1 was because the people rejected God and chose to worship themselves. Paul states that the people worshiped images that looked like mortal man (that's us), along with animals and other created things and so God gave them over what they ultimately wanted and that's how they chose to act it out.
or maybe homophobia is simply a sin??? @@theidentitychristispodcast
@@pastorbri What are you talking about?
@@theidentitychristispodcast Gods word, why what are you going on about???
Hey Andrew, I like your accent. I guess the shirt's okay too.
Thanks - I guess I can change my shirt easier than my accent, so I can live with that
Hi Andrew, once again I fully agree with everything that you are saying.
And again I Praise & Thank GOD for your Contending of The True WORD of GOD.
I commend you for your highlighting of point 3 (5:08 minutes) & the Cleverness (Subtlies) of words (especially when it's all greek to the rest of us!)
Especially in the phasing of the subject matter in point.
It's just like the working & subtle wordings of the devil.
When in The Garden he said to Eve "Did GOD Really Say That."
We Must Remain Alert in this our Present Age of Darkness by Standing upon The Firm Foundation of The TRUE WORD of GOD & By Abiding In CHRIST JESUS our Risen LORD & SAVIOUR.
Just Like The Wise Virgins Who Kept their Extra Oil & Lantern Wicks Trimmed.
So being Ready for HIS Glorious Returning.
Andrew, May GOD Continue to Bless You & Your Precious Wife by HIS HOLY SPIRIT.
Numbers 6 vs 24 - 26. 🙏
Thank you, that's very kind of you. I appreciate your blessing and encouragement - God bless you too 🙏
Just becouse the word homosexuali is of recent origin
It's still clearly obvious that thats
What the verses are speaking about
Totally. I think it's disingenuous for 21st century people to look for modern concepts in the Bible, then use their absence as justification for them. That's not how we treat the Bible in every other area of life, so sexuality and gender can't be any different.
no it is not
@@AllThingsTheology but how is that fair? Homosexual is a sexual orientation NOT A SEX ACT
Hi Andrew love this video, thank you for posting about this stuff as alot of people think of LGBT and Christianity shouldn’t mix and it should be taboo but that’s not how you take it and it’s so good to know about these things and be educated with some really cool things I didn’t know and a couple of my friends now watch your videos bc they’re so cool your videos. Sorry that was alot but thank you so much God bless
Just saw this - thanks pal!
It also includes gossips and disobedience to parents ,God is our father!!!
That's quite a bit of fancy dancing. I am always amused by Christians who announce - "let's look at what the Bible says" and then launch into a carefully curated version of their renegotiation of the text they are isolating. Some of the more educated and shrewd ones will actually use the original language but most do not because they can't read the text in the original.
So, what do we have in this little bit of scripture?
1. Paul states a bit of dogma - the natural world shows that God exists. And by God, he means the Christian version, no other. Romans 1:18-20;
2. This dogma that the natural world shows the existence of God is known as natural theology. It is a classic philosophical argument from Greco-Roman times. Paul argues that as the pagans he references know this but insist on worshipping their false idols, they are deliberately rejecting the Christian God. Romans 1:21-23, 25. We can set aside for the moment the presupposition in Paul's argument, namely, that his Christian God is the one true God.
3. This rejection cheeses off the Christian God enormously. So, He gave these pagans over in the sinful desires of their hearts, to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. There are a couple of things in this statement worth noting. The Greek translated as "gave them over" in the text is the same as the Greek text used when Judas hands Jesus over in the garden for his trial and crucifixion. The Christian God has decided he has enough of their sinful idolatry so HE hands them over to sexual degradation of their bodies with each other. He is the agent mandating this to happen. As a result, the Christian God has removed any natural moral or ethical barriers these pagans had that restrained them from certain actions and created the condition in which these folks will be impelled into these actions. Romans 1:24-25. This is classic Paul in his use of Greco-Roman pagan philosophy to form his arguments. It is a theme found throughout Greco-Roman paganism and is a theme Paul and his readers would have been familiar with. It even survives down to today in such sayings as "for whom the gods would destroy, they first deprive of reason".
4. So, God mandates their actions, handing them over to shameful actions, and abandoning their prior natural desires. Romans 1:26-27.
Now note something interesting here. God is the actor. He is the one who initiates the shameful actions of these folks. And he does it because he wants to punish them, i.e., give them the due penalty for their error. What error is that? It is their refusal to acknowledge him as God and to engage in idolatry. So, the Christian God removes all the natural moral and ethical barriers these folks had regarding the actions Paul mentions, causing them to cease their prior natural desires and start engaging in same-sex activities along with murder, adultery, etc.
5. So what happens to these idolatrous people being punished by God for their idolatry? The next portion of Paul's text tells us:
"Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, God gave them over to a depraved mind so that they do what ought not to be done. They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed, and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant, and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them." Romans 1:28-32.
This passage is Paul's condemnation of idolaters and idolatry, attacking the surrounding pagans and showing how God punishes them for this transgression. He is acting very much within the confines of the Greco-Roman world's concepts of how the world operates. Whether that system of beliefs is still valid is another matter but not important here. The text makes it clear that God is the actor here. He is angered by the pagans' rejection of him. He punishes them by removing any natural ethical or moral barriers they might have naturally had. He pushes them into committing sexual actions they would not have done had God not removed those moral and ethical barriers. He also pushes them into committing numerous other actions, including gossip, slander, envy, murder, deceit, malice, etc.
What I find interesting is how this passage is used very carefully, isolating it from the context in which it is found, forming it as an attack on the LGBT community. Now, leaving aside the issue of the morality of homosexuality as a volitional act between consenting adults for a moment, using this passage raises some issues. First, as mentioned above, the Christian God is the actor here. He decides to punish these idolaters by removing their own natural inhibitions towards certain actions, including but not exclusively, same-sex sexual behavior. And the passage is not about just same-sex sexual activity. It is about people whom the Christian God has sentenced to all manner of depravity for the sin of idolatry. He is the one who has agency here when it comes to all this activity, not the people he has punished. Yes, they might have been engaging in the act of rejecting God and worshipping idols but the Christian God is the one who removed all their natural moral and ethical barriers to such depravity and tossed them right into it.
The days of Lot. What was distinct about the days of Lot??? There were 2 things about the days of Lot. The first was man’s desire to have carnal knowledge with other men. Lot even offered his 2 daughters as a substitute. With the acceptance of homosexuality we know that we are living in the last day. 2timothy 4v3. For a time will come when man will not endure sound doctrine but according to their own desires because they have itching ears they will heap up for themselves teachers and turn their ears away from the truth.
Those passages about false teachers feel really poignant these days.
and yet sodoms sin was not helping the poor n needy (ezek 16;49)
yes homophobics are false teachers@@AllThingsTheology
Great work here!
Thank you!
I really enjoy your video's. Thank you.
Thank you, I appreciate that.
James 3:1 My brethren, be not many masters (TEACHERS), knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation.
YOU teach in error.
I fail to see how, but if that's how you feel then I'm probably not going to convince you otherwise with a comment.
@@AllThingsTheology
Matthew 12:36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.
I like your shirt! Lol God bless you brother!
Thank you - you clearly have good taste. God bless you too!
Look in Ephesians as well.
Great video brutha! This kind of heresy needs to be called out, and I'm glad GOD is raising up people like yourself who aren't afraid to speak the truth in love. Be encouraged man. GOD is with you as you teach the truth of HIS WORD in this perverted culture!
Thank you, that's much appreciated :)
The only heresy I see is with this speaker.
Well said. More power to you.
Thank you.
In addition, your second argument would also prohibit women from leading worship. Is that what you believe as it's scriptural?
The comparison with female ordination seems to be something of a moot point to me. Debates around female ordination are typically very concerned with understanding Scripture's view on the subject, whereas reinterpretations of the Bibles' teaching on sexuality are often very weak in their understanding of Scripture.
What I don't understand is how God never explicitly condemned polygamy. But it's obviously not his intention when he said "let a man leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife" (not wives). But David was still a man after God's own heart. Even though he probably had sex with a different woman most nights of the week And it was totally normal for him. So perhaps a gay couple can be men or women after God's own heart, despite being in their relationships that aren't in line with what God intended from the beginning. I am neither nonaffirming or affirming. I just don't know what to think about things.
That's fair, it is a hard one to reconcile. I'm not saying this definitely is the reason, but perhaps it was a concession on God's part because marriage was such a lifeline for women; if they were widowed/divorced then they had little hope for surviving, and with all the wars there may have been fewer men compared to women. So a man having three wives was less bad than having one wife and leaving two women destitute.
That's just a theory though, I imagine there may be several reasons.
@@AllThingsTheology Don't forget slavery. The Bible not only condones slavery but actually lays out how it should be done. The Bible never acknowledges there might a world in which it is not OK to own another person. Is your owner cruel and mistreats you?....suck it up, says the Bible (2 Peter 2:18). Oh but wait says the Christian. That's because of when the Bible was written. Peter and Paul couldn't change the world and slavery was part of it. So of course you can INTUIT that the God does not approve of slavery, just like you can intuit that God is not in favor of domestic abuse from what scripture says about the relation between wives and husbands. Even though what we now call domestic abuse was widespread in the ancient world and the Bible never explicitly condemns it we can intuit it. Then you say to a Christian, "couldn't that also be the case with same sex relationships? That the Bible is product of its time and the world in which it was written and we can intuit what God really means?" NO! They cry that bit is for all time and is not for reinterpretation. I say Christians have a selective reading of the Bible and stretch it to make it say what they want.
I think the way marriage is defined and how adultery is defined from OT to NT makes a pretty clear implication that polygamy is not ok.
it shows God did not give us ONE definition of marriage@@AllThingsTheology
and yet God was ok with poligomy @@therealkingbaldwin
hey Andrew I like your shirt or whatever
Thanks lol
No serious person can argue that if Paul were here today he would affirm same sex relationships. But, if you think "homosexuality" is what Romans 1 is about, you deserve progressive Christianity.
It's about idolatry. Even more specifically Paul is retelling the story of Genesis 1-11 and explaining why the separation of Jew and Gentile existed. Why? Because Nero banished Jews from Rome for a period and when it ended Jewish Christ followers returned to Rome and found that their new religion had been taken over by a bunch of effeminate Gentile believers who were basically running the Churches.
This is the context Paul is speaking into. He's saying, "Yes, these people new believers come out of a culture you find abhorrent, but you-as the chosen people of God-were supposed to be a blessing to the nations. That is, I chose Abraham out of those nations and your calling was to fulfill the covenant so that God could bring all nations back to him. But, instead you became even worse than the nations and went after their gods. If you had kept the covenant, you wouldn't;t be complaining about their gayness.
But, let's just pretend that everyone would agree with us if they just weren't being brainwashed by Progressive Christianity. Because it's so unfair when bad-faith actors slide into the intellectual vacuums you've carved out for them.
I have watched this video with interest, but your second would lead us to believe that having slaves is okay so long as we treat them well, wouldn't it?
Not quite. The short answer is that Scripture's laws around slavery elevate the status of the slave to being equal in value, worth and dignity with all other humans. They were written for people who lived with slavery as a cultural institution (albeit a wildly different form of slavery to what we typically imagine), and the natural outworking of those teachings is that slavery is wrong.
@@AllThingsTheologyreally? Because a man can beat his slave and go unpunished if the slave doesn’t die from the beating.
Robertson was a graduate
Of the moody bible institute he did not learn much
So I believe. Certainly it seems that whatever he did learn, he has thrown out.
Paul wasnt aware? i
That’s what some people say 🤷🏻♂️
he also never condemned same sex love, rightly so @@AllThingsTheology
❤❤
👊
Glad you enjoyed this one too!
@All Things Theology I just discovered your channel, and am really enjoying it. I'll be tracking back when I have some time, to watch more of your previous content. 💖
@@detroiterhere4897 that’s awesome to hear, thank you! I do appreciate that and hope you find it all helpful
Are you irish
Aye Northern Irish, so close enough
@@AllThingsTheology I Sean document of the northern irish war thing
@@U20user10 aye the Troubles - they were just before my time thankfully. It’s a great country here, I really love it
@@AllThingsTheology do you think there should be united ireland
@@U20user10 lol that’s a super contentious question, so no comment
My opinion and my research that first of all in reference to the Roman culture we must remember that the Roman empire were the greatest empires of history cell due to immorality. Also been a person of theology we all understand and know that the Bible has changed and was adapted to fit the pagan traditions and pagan way just so in order to recruit or get the pagans to become Christian. This does not mean that it’s right because there’s a lot of things just the fact of the holiday Christmas or the holiday Easter it strays away from the true meaning of what these holidays were actually about and the holidays have adapted different pagan tradition in order to again recruit these pagans to become Christians. There’s a lot of things that are not very clear and we must be very careful. But my position is that homosexuality transgender ism all of that is immoral and is against God homosexuality was something that originated from the fallen angels/Satan There’s so much more in the Bible the people don’t do their research they take it at face value of what it says and not truly understanding the culture and history of the Bible.
As much as I think it's important to understand the culture and history of when the Bible was written, it isn't really true to say that the Bible has been adapted or changed to make it more appealing to pagan culture. That's a common argument from people - that the doctrine of the Trinity was invented by Constantine, that the council of Nicaea basically invented Christian doctrine - but that isn't true. The Bible we have today would happily be accepted by its authors as being what they wrote.
@@AllThingsTheology I would like to challenge you to look into these things because in my study of theology in the history of the Bible and also the Catholic Church I mean, I’m talking historical facts that are facts that are according to the Catholic Church which was the only thing that we had at the time. Until Martin Luther broke away from them out Catholic church I mean if you want to go to the origins of the Bible and do you have to look at the most all the sources of the Bible which is one of the Bibles in Africa there is unfortunately there is a lot of evidence that the Bible has been tampered with and changed we would all be naïve being theologians not to say that just the translations from the Greek to the Jewish to the English language there are changes there. But at the council of Nacine , With Constantine and what he did to appeal to the pagans you don’t see that you don’t see this information I’m not talking against the Bible but I have to acknowledge that there has been changes and things that have been done in order to try to get the Gentiles or pagans to be a part of the church. I’m extremely surprised that you don’t see this information. But please don’t believe me do your research and you will see and today’s society people take it at face value of what things say because they’ve been told by someone that this is true I’m telling those people go out and do your own research. Again I’m not trying to talk against the Bible the Bible is a holy document that we do need to look at and study. But I also have to take in account what has been done throughout history and the influence of the Catholic Church has had on the world and I used to be a Catholic and I’m not talking against the Catholic Church I’m just speaking facts. Anyway I wish Godspeed to you and your family may God bless you all and I hope that you have a wonderful day and a wonderful holiday during this time of Easter. Thank you So much for responding to my message and God bless
@@timgehlbach5877 I feel like this debate is probably a little too complex to be had online/in a comments section, so I’m happy to agree to disagree. The good will and blessings are appreciated though - God bless you too and I hope you have a nice Easter.
@@AllThingsTheology Thank you so much and I wish God‘s blessings upon you and your family and I hope that you all have a very wonderful Easter as well. I agree that there is a lot to say in regards to these matters I appreciate it taking the time to respond. God bless
It's pitiful how Christians have turned homosexuality into the "worst" sin. READ ROMANS 2:1!!!
Paul warned his Roman audience that they practiced the SAME THINGS. So Paul is clearly not focusing on the same sex part of it. He's focusing on the rejection of God in the rejection of God's revealed truth.
I’m not sure whether you’re coming from an affirming/progressive position or not, but I agree entirely with the comment. Some Christians do make this into some sort of ‘unforgivable sin’ (though in my actual experience this isn’t as common as is often claimed); but the point of Romans 1 isn’t to bash same-sex attracted people, it’s to say we’re all sinners. Then, as you’ve rightly said, Romans 2 pulls the rug out from under the people who think they’re super holy and superior.
It isn’t my intent to suggest that same-sex relationships are some other, more evil kind of sin; I’m just trying to correct destructive false teachings that are leading people away from Jesus.
@All Things Theology thanks for replying. Not progressive or affirming. I try to honor God in all that I do. I worry that too many Christians put more emphasis on the bad and not on the good. My understanding is that Romans 1 is progressive (not that kind of progressive, the actual meaning... it progresses.. from bad to worse)
v24-25 physical judgment
v26-27 emotional/ soulish judgment
v27-32 mental/ spiritual judgment
These are consequences for rejecting God's revealed truth. So Paul is not condemning homosexuality per se. He's condemning the rejection of God's revealed truth. In nature, in scripture, in His Son.
I think verses 29-31 are far more concerning evidences of the rejection of God. But they're all bad.
Homosexuality is rejecting God in rejecting God's revealed truth...
@@ironclad452 no worries, it was a good point. And I think that’s fair - some do overemphasise it, though in my context (Northern Ireland) I’ve never really experienced that. Perhaps things are different elsewhere, but the Christian circles I’ve been a part of have all been fairly balanced and kind when it comes to this issue.
have you ever ponder on where the Bible in its present for come from I'll tell then the early church fathers monks in the third century what religion were they Catholic enough said
They were orthodox. No papal infallibility universal magisterium or papal supremacy. Created grace and the beatific vision did not exist. The Filioque did not exist. Things were run in a localized synodal fashion and each bishop was equal in authority and were limited to their respective jurisdiction, although they gave honor to the see of Rome because of its double apostolic succession from Peter and Paul and because it was the secular center and powerhouse of the empire. Not really sure what point you’re trying to make.