So let’s use some basic electrical diagnostics. Everyone is saying ‘try this’, or ‘tap on the starter’ etc and whilst somewhat helpful that is just a scatter gun approach. Always look for the easy way before removing components. Try performing a voltage drop test on the complete starter circuit. With the multimeter set to dc volts, place the positive probe on the positive battery terminal. Place the negative probe on the starter motor positive input terminal. Turn over the engine with the starter button. You are looking for 0.5v or less on your multimeter display. You are testing the whole positive circuit from battery to starter. The concept is that electricity will take the path of least resistance. If you have high resistance in the positive pathway to your starter (corrosion, bad connection, faulty part, etc), then you will flow more through your multimeter as this becomes a path of less resistance and the voltage measurement will be higher than 0.5v. If the result is 0.5v or lower, perform the same test on the negative starter circuit. Place the multimeter probe on the negative battery post and the other probe on the starter ground. Crank the engine and look for 0.5v or less. If you find higher than 0.5v on say the positive circuit, you can narrow this down to the problem area by testing from the battery positive post to the copper wire just the other side of the terminal which is directly connected to the post and cranking the engine again. Once again you are testing the connection and resistance in that individual terminal. You are always looking for less than 0.5v. Using the positive battery post as the base with the positive probe, move to probing with the negative probe at the next connection point…..and so on until you find the point of high resistance which is the problem area. If you find nothing, then the starter is most likely at fault and it needs removal to test. You can even use the same test across the starter solenoid posts. In fact you can use this in any circuit which has electricity flowing through it…..lighting, pumps etc. Long winded reply but hope this helps you. Let me know if you have any questions I can help you with.
A couple of thoughts, use a volt meter to determine if you are getting 12 volts to the solenoid by placing positive of volt meter to the red power wire on the solenoid and black ground anywhere on the block and have someone engage the start button if there is 12 volts you are getting power to the solenoid. Next bypass the solenoid using an insulated screwdriver to engage the starter directly. If this works I would replace the solenoid. However prior to replacing a solenoid and/or starter I would chase all wiring and terminals. Chasing boat electrical issues really sucks and fortunately I too old to be crawling in bilges and engine compartments and simply pay to have it done.
Thanks for that. I have voltage at the solenoid and when I jump the posts, I get a full power start that sounds great. I think that means it was the solenoid. I ordered a new solenoid. Why does it work when jumped but not when triggered? That's the part I don't get.
If not the relay, you may have to take apart the startamotor and give it a good claenout the mechanic did that as well. Simply go through the ilimanation processe. Gerard.
Check voltage drop at starter. Hook positive lead to battery lead on solenoid and negative lead from meter to starter motor for a ground. Try to crank. If your your meter has a min/ max button use it. Also move negative lead to engine and try again. You should have about 10.5 to 11 volts when cranking with a solid electrical foundation. You definitely want to check your ground at the engine block to battery. If it’s not on the engine block it needs to be there. It’s best to have battery ground to the engine block and then run another ground cable from engine block to engine cradle or mount. Tony mentioned tapping on the starter while your wife tries to crank the engine that is a good idea after you establish good grounds. If it starts after tapping on it that means the commutator is bad or the brushes are dirty or worn. Then you would want to have the starter rebuilt. The quality of parts nowadays suck! So you would be better off finding a reputable starter rebuilder to build you a heavy duty unit with the Chinese taken out of it. Best of luck! Love your channel. Let me know if it helps.
don't forget to apply some dielectric grease... use it on electrical connection on my Harley and it works great... also the starter may have gone bad... not uncommon with salty humidity and not been used everyday... just an idea... had this on my Harley as well...
Possibly the starter/solenoid itself? If you’re absolutely positive the batteries/cables/connections are good… Also, how about “Gator” for the dinghy? Y’all (and they, lol!!) like to hang out on those islands!!
It definitely seems like either the starter solenoid is sticking or a bad connection. I would replace the big red wire from the battery to the starter because the wire could be corroded under the crimp and it can travel up the wire as well. If that doesn’t fix it then try the starter solenoid. Even though the starter is only 3 years old, it’s in a marine environment and if the PO didn’t put in a quality starter it could have problems.
I have a 1984 O’Day 30. I have owned the boat for 2 season and have the same intermittent starting problem. The engine has so far always started, but not always right away. I am very interested to see if you are able to solve this problem. Please keep us up to date on this. I really enjoy your videos they are entertaining and informative. Cheers from eastern Canada.
It looks like the positive cable has internal corrosion. It may be delivering 12 volts but low amperage. You are right about the connections but the corrosion probably has travelled into the the cable inside the insulation.
I have to say you are doing everything right, an intermittent problem is the worst. My suggestion would be to check all the terminals on the big cables and maybe even just change the one at your starting solenoid. It is very difficult to see corrosion inside of the terminals and maybe even cut the wire back just a little to make sure. Thanks
I was thinking of maybe just touching the positive battery wire to the starter itself to see if it turns over fast. That way I would be eliminating the solenoids all together. Do you think that would work?
@@AdventuresInParadise You have signal from switch, solenoid, starter, and cables. All I can think of is one at a time try to figure out what is going on. Good Luck and I wish I could help you.
Are you using dielectric grease for the terminal connections? You also may want to use marine grade terminal connectors (ring terminals) and then grease it up with dielectric grease. To check the solenoid, measure the solenoid coil resistance and check it against the manufacturers specifications.
Next time it fails to crank, tap on the starter with a hammer while your wife pushes the start button, if it starts cranking than it's the starter. I would pick up a can of electric contact cleaner from the auto parts store, and spray all the wire contacts. Also if the wiring doesn't have shrink wrap over the connection you can have corrosion inside the sheath, you may have to cut the wire back to fresh copper and put new connections on the end of it.
Thanks for that, I do know that trick as I'm old enough to have done that in cars back in the day, but I never had to hit the starter in this boat because I can just press the start button relatedly and then it finally works...
May I suggest the following name for your new dinghy? Synonyms for Envision include Imagine, see, envisage and fantasy so how about combining fantasy and see and with a little play on words name it Fantasea?? Enjoy your videos!!
I hadn't really thought about it much.. maybe it's the area. We were offered a slip inside the security gated area but picked one in the open area because we can park 10 feet from the boat and it's a better location for docktails/sunsets.
The biggest reason is that our current marina was our original marina and is in our hometown. The other marina was farther away and it did have a one hour chug down a river to go sailing. The other Marina had a funny cast of characters that I came to love and our current marina in our hometown is a lot less expensive because we get 50% off as a residence. We also spend a lot of time in this area since it’s near our home.
I jumped it and it starts fast. I'm wanting to undertand why the started works when I jump the solenoid but not when it's triggered remotely. I guess whatever happens inside isn't happening like it should. I think the fact that it turns over so fast when I jump it proves that all other wires/grounds/starter are good.
All the bolts sheared off my starter. The starter came off but all the stubs of the bolts are still stuck in the block. It sounds like your solenoid contacts are dirty on the inside. It could be the wiring though...just old maybe. I have a Universal M-25xp not far off from yours just a little more power. I'm on the verge of repowering got a quote for 7800 for a 21hp Nanni/kubota diesel.
I had a 28 1985 from new till 2013 - had same problem - last maybe 10 years I owned i it - first hit start and it would be dead - then hit again and fire right up - thought it was a bad connection somewhere and that things heating up corrected it. Never a hard failure so hard to diagnose - sorry I have nothing good to add for diagnosis - just wanted to let you know yours is not the only one with same symptom - will watch with interest to see if you find the weak link. All the best on it. Question - when you hit the start do you see the current draw meter drop - mine would even though no start so always though it was not a bad start button - that is why I felt more in wiring.
Thanks for that. Since I was by myself I didn’t get to try to check the amp meter while pushing the start button. Hopefully this weekend I will take susy To the boat and try that I’ll get it on Cameron have it in the next video
So let’s use some basic electrical diagnostics. Everyone is saying ‘try this’, or ‘tap on the starter’ etc and whilst somewhat helpful that is just a scatter gun approach. Always look for the easy way before removing components. Try performing a voltage drop test on the complete starter circuit. With the multimeter set to dc volts, place the positive probe on the positive battery terminal. Place the negative probe on the starter motor positive input terminal. Turn over the engine with the starter button. You are looking for 0.5v or less on your multimeter display. You are testing the whole positive circuit from battery to starter. The concept is that electricity will take the path of least resistance. If you have high resistance in the positive pathway to your starter (corrosion, bad connection, faulty part, etc), then you will flow more through your multimeter as this becomes a path of less resistance and the voltage measurement will be higher than 0.5v. If the result is 0.5v or lower, perform the same test on the negative starter circuit. Place the multimeter probe on the negative battery post and the other probe on the starter ground. Crank the engine and look for 0.5v or less. If you find higher than 0.5v on say the positive circuit, you can narrow this down to the problem area by testing from the battery positive post to the copper wire just the other side of the terminal which is directly connected to the post and cranking the engine again. Once again you are testing the connection and resistance in that individual terminal. You are always looking for less than 0.5v. Using the positive battery post as the base with the positive probe, move to probing with the negative probe at the next connection point…..and so on until you find the point of high resistance which is the problem area. If you find nothing, then the starter is most likely at fault and it needs removal to test. You can even use the same test across the starter solenoid posts. In fact you can use this in any circuit which has electricity flowing through it…..lighting, pumps etc. Long winded reply but hope this helps you. Let me know if you have any questions I can help you with.
A couple of thoughts, use a volt meter to determine if you are getting 12 volts to the solenoid by placing positive of volt meter to the red power wire on the solenoid and black ground anywhere on the block and have someone engage the start button if there is 12 volts you are getting power to the solenoid. Next bypass the solenoid using an insulated screwdriver to engage the starter directly. If this works I would replace the solenoid. However prior to replacing a solenoid and/or starter I would chase all wiring and terminals.
Chasing boat electrical issues really sucks and fortunately I too old to be crawling in bilges and engine compartments and simply pay to have it done.
Thanks for that. I have voltage at the solenoid and when I jump the posts, I get a full power start that sounds great. I think that means it was the solenoid. I ordered a new solenoid. Why does it work when jumped but not when triggered? That's the part I don't get.
Dinghy name - Small Fry!!!
I would guess it's a sticky solenoid. Try tapping the solenoid next time it clicks. Tap it with a hammer, tap it don't bash it.😊
Din McDingy could be a suggestion:-)
If not the relay, you may have to take apart the startamotor and give it a good claenout the mechanic did that as well. Simply go through the ilimanation processe.
Gerard.
For the dingy name to go with the Envision theme, how about "Short Sighted"?
Call the dingy " little bit "
Check voltage drop at starter. Hook positive lead to battery lead on solenoid and negative lead from meter to starter motor for a ground. Try to crank. If your your meter has a min/ max button use it. Also move negative lead to engine and try again. You should have about 10.5 to 11 volts when cranking with a solid electrical foundation. You definitely want to check your ground at the engine block to battery. If it’s not on the engine block it needs to be there. It’s best to have battery ground to the engine block and then run another ground cable from engine block to engine cradle or mount. Tony mentioned tapping on the starter while your wife tries to crank the engine that is a good idea after you establish good grounds. If it starts after tapping on it that means the commutator is bad or the brushes are dirty or worn. Then you would want to have the starter rebuilt. The quality of parts nowadays suck! So you would be better off finding a reputable starter rebuilder to build you a heavy duty unit with the Chinese taken out of it. Best of luck! Love your channel. Let me know if it helps.
Thank you, I’ll try that, but when I jump the solenoid I get a full power crank from the starter. Does that mean my solenoid is the problem?
Replace the cables rather than cleaning them. Corrosion inside the connectors if on the outside.
sailboat is Envision how about dingy is "out of sight"
Did you Check your ground wires also? if all your wires are clean and good pull your starter off and go have it tested
don't forget to apply some dielectric grease... use it on electrical connection on my Harley and it works great... also the starter may have gone bad... not uncommon with salty humidity and not been used everyday... just an idea... had this on my Harley as well...
Possibly the starter/solenoid itself? If you’re absolutely positive the batteries/cables/connections are good…
Also, how about “Gator” for the dinghy? Y’all (and they, lol!!) like to hang out on those islands!!
It definitely seems like either the starter solenoid is sticking or a bad connection. I would replace the big red wire from the battery to the starter because the wire could be corroded under the crimp and it can travel up the wire as well. If that doesn’t fix it then try the starter solenoid. Even though the starter is only 3 years old, it’s in a marine environment and if the PO didn’t put in a quality starter it could have problems.
I have a 1984 O’Day 30. I have owned the boat for 2 season and have the same intermittent starting problem. The engine has so far always started, but not always right away. I am very interested to see if you are able to solve this problem. Please keep us up to date on this. I really enjoy your videos they are entertaining and informative. Cheers from eastern Canada.
It looks like the positive cable has internal corrosion. It may be delivering 12 volts but low amperage. You are right about the connections but the corrosion probably has travelled into the the cable inside the insulation.
You can test the starter with the tester put it on crank it should not go into the red Google test function
You may have low voltage going to the glow plugs.
Install an relay to increse the voltage. Had to do
the same to the motor on my boat.
Gerard.
The boat already has the glow plug relay mod done
The bumble bee
I have to say you are doing everything right, an intermittent problem is the worst. My suggestion would be to check all the terminals on the big cables and maybe even just change the one at your starting solenoid. It is very difficult to see corrosion inside of the terminals and maybe even cut the wire back just a little to make sure. Thanks
I was thinking of maybe just touching the positive battery wire to the starter itself to see if it turns over fast. That way I would be eliminating the solenoids all together. Do you think that would work?
@@AdventuresInParadise You have signal from switch, solenoid, starter, and cables. All I can think of is one at a time try to figure out what is going on. Good Luck and I wish I could help you.
Are you using dielectric grease for the terminal connections? You also may want to use marine grade terminal connectors (ring terminals) and then grease it up with dielectric grease. To check the solenoid, measure the solenoid coil resistance and check it against the manufacturers specifications.
Had email accant problems so i deted and have resubscribbed.
Gerard.
Little dinghy
You can try jumping your solenoid to see if it's bad, just look up how to bypass a starter solenoid
I did that and the motor turns fast when I jump it. The thing I'd like to know is, why does it work when jumped but not when triggered?
Adventures In Paradise you need to check the wiring at the key switch, it probably just corroded wiring somewhere
It’s probably a bad solenoid but now you can’t just buy them they usually come as one . But see if you can just buy the solenoid they do go bad
Replace the starter button. My old Columbia had the same kind of issue, it was the button.
Did that already, But this boat has the glow plug solenoid modification so all the high voltage is not going through the starter button
Hello from Key West enjoy the videos. My bet is on the solenoid and not firing properly.
U are correct!
Dingy name "envisage"
Do you have the final resolution?
Next time it fails to crank, tap on the starter with a hammer while your wife pushes the start button, if it starts cranking than it's the starter. I would pick up a can of electric contact cleaner from the auto parts store, and spray all the wire contacts. Also if the wiring doesn't have shrink wrap over the connection you can have corrosion inside the sheath, you may have to cut the wire back to fresh copper and put new connections on the end of it.
Thanks for that, I do know that trick as I'm old enough to have done that in cars back in the day, but I never had to hit the starter in this boat because I can just press the start button relatedly and then it finally works...
May I suggest the following name for your new dinghy? Synonyms for Envision include Imagine, see, envisage and fantasy so how about combining fantasy and see and with a little play on words name it Fantasea?? Enjoy your videos!!
Thanks and good suggestions!
Is it unsettling not having a security gate at the marina? I didn't realize it was so open on that side.
I hadn't really thought about it much.. maybe it's the area. We were offered a slip inside the security gated area but picked one in the open area because we can park 10 feet from the boat and it's a better location for docktails/sunsets.
You didn't care for the other marina you were in. Was that due to travel distance or getting the boat out to open water?
The biggest reason is that our current marina was our original marina and is in our hometown. The other marina was farther away and it did have a one hour chug down a river to go sailing. The other Marina had a funny cast of characters that I came to love and our current marina in our hometown is a lot less expensive because we get 50% off as a residence. We also spend a lot of time in this area since it’s near our home.
You can jump the solinoid to check the starter however check all of your grounds again … but after watching your video …..it’s the starter
I jumped it and it starts fast. I'm wanting to undertand why the started works when I jump the solenoid but not when it's triggered remotely. I guess whatever happens inside isn't happening like it should. I think the fact that it turns over so fast when I jump it proves that all other wires/grounds/starter are good.
The solenoid is bad and you are bypassing it when you jump it. That why it works …… if I remember correctly
All the bolts sheared off my starter. The starter came off but all the stubs of the bolts are still stuck in the block. It sounds like your solenoid contacts are dirty on the inside. It could be the wiring though...just old maybe. I have a Universal M-25xp not far off from yours just a little more power. I'm on the verge of repowering got a quote for 7800 for a 21hp Nanni/kubota diesel.
I’m tempted to just buy a new starter, shot in the dark.
@@AdventuresInParadise expensive... take the starter to your local auto parts store and have it tested before you spend that money.
@@AdventuresInParadise You should have a spare starter anyway. It is part of my cruising spares. The starters are cheap enough off Amazon or Ebay.
I had a 28 1985 from new till 2013 - had same problem - last maybe 10 years I owned i it - first hit start and it would be dead - then hit again and fire right up - thought it was a bad connection somewhere and that things heating up corrected it. Never a hard failure so hard to diagnose - sorry I have nothing good to add for diagnosis - just wanted to let you know yours is not the only one with same symptom - will watch with interest to see if you find the weak link. All the best on it. Question - when you hit the start do you see the current draw meter drop - mine would even though no start so always though it was not a bad start button - that is why I felt more in wiring.
Thanks for that. Since I was by myself I didn’t get to try to check the amp meter while pushing the start button. Hopefully this weekend I will take susy To the boat and try that I’ll get it on Cameron have it in the next video
BTW - same person as start of thread above - reply sent from alternate account I sometimes use
was the starter replaced with a used one or new?
It was a new unit when replaced three years ago. It looks new still. I think I've found out what's wrong and it will be in the next video.
It’s a bad starter