Why Is Cycling Making People So Angry? | GCN Show Ep. 593
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- Опубліковано 15 чер 2024
- In this week's show, we take a closer look at a recent news article suggesting that cyclists are to blame for making roads dangerous. Conor & Si also react to new laws being passed against cyclists and question why cycling is so often antagonised and why it makes people so angry!
We also cover the latest cycling news, including a lycra shorts controversy, delve into the latest bike tech, get excited about Rebound, and much more!
Participate in the Pirelli Competition here! 👉 gcn.eu/GCNPirelliCompetition
Welcome to the GCN Show! 0:00
New cycling laws against dangerous riding 1:00
Why is cycling a political issue? 5:12
Do cyclists benefit at the expense of motorists? 6:22
What do we do about it? 7:37
Cycling Shorts 10:58
GMA host’s lycra cycling shorts controversy 11:13
Benefits of cargo bike use 13:49
Unbound? How about Rebound! #AD 14:41
Hot Bike Tech: Swytch’s Go Kit #AD 16:10
SRAM’s Red AXS Groupset #AD 18:37
Participate in our Pirelli tyre Competition! #AD 20:09
Check out our Italian-inspired clothing and bottle collection! 21:04
Hack/Bodge Of The Week 22:58
Caption Competition 30:10
Comment Of The Week 32:28
This Week On GCN 36:59
📰 Check out the articles mentioned in this episode:
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Have you noticed this antagonism towards cyclists ramping up in the media, or on the road? What do you think we can do about it? 🤔
Let us know in the comments! 💬
Watch more on GCN...
📹 This Is Why Cyclists Annoy Car Drivers, Should We Care? | GCN Show Ep. 579 👉 • This Is Why Cyclists A...
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We are overwhelmed by the comments under this show! There are lots of experiences shared by so many of you
Just to make sure there are no crossed wires, by ❤'ing a comment we are not necessarily showing we love what is in the comment, sometimes it is shown as a thanks for the comment!
Ok, but send me a water bottle. Lol
@gcn: Surely MH-14 = Microphone Holder (on a 14mm cone spanner)
here was I thinking you love everything I say :D
I think that e-bikes may be contributing to the idea about insurance, this is an interesting vid about their safety compared to motorcycles. m.ua-cam.com/video/wM8Xli2KTzI/v-deo.html
People are angrier in general these days, cyclists are just an easy target.
I think it's a side effect of social media and the associated tribalism. People can find some clique or niche category that boosts their confidence in their particular ideas and then feel anyone who's not in their echo chamber is an enemy.
road rage is done by motorists and motorist defend road rage
100% agree..also the population explosion in both motorists and cyclists..traffic is outta control in the states
Watching this, you would think that all cyclists are saints.
Bikes can also be the antidote! Everyone is happy on a bike 🙌
Motorists: "Cyclists shouldn't be on the road!"
Also motorists: "Stop spending money on cycling infrastructure that gets cyclists off the road!!"
Sometimes you cannot win!
Potholes on the road for everyone. This is equality.
Cyclists: "The highway code doesn't apply to us, and we don't have to stick to speed limits, and should be pretty much immune from accountability"
Also cyclists: "Where's my safety?"
The unhelpful, wilfully argumentative, and unproductive, mentality comes from both sides of this.
@@chrisdavidson911 People will never stop breaking laws but well-maintained separate bike lanes save lives, simple as that. Following the law should be the convenient and safe way.
@@chrisdavidson911 Straw man. No cyclist argues for no rules to apply to them. It is a tiny minority of bike riders who are condemned by the rest of us. Can you condemn the said angry drivers the same way?
I'm a cyclist located in the United States (Colorado) and we have the anti-cyclist issue here as well and it is also political here too. Note that Colorado is arguably one of the friendlies states in the union for cyclists! I have had people get angry at me when we are in a vehicle and I ask that they slow down for just a moment or give a cyclist a little extra space because it is a tight shoulder or turn. More than one person I've been in a car with has said statements such as "if he gets killed it's not my fault, he shouldn't be on the road".
That is INSANE to feel that way about another human being.
Not to mention that the law in most states SPECIFICALLY points out that bicycles and cars share the road and are subject to the same traffic rules…
Ahh yes but they aren't another human being, they are a cyclist.
& CO ain't the worst place in 'murica.
That's par for the course in Indiana unfortunately.l
think about the multitude of times you have to slow down or awkwardly pass an Amazon vehicle or UPS... nobody AFAIK has some weird animosity for those delivery trucks and drivers. It's not too bad here where I live in northeast-Ohio, but I have noticed there seem to be many more people who go beyond inconsiderate and flirt with dangerous driving than ever before. it's still pretty rare thankfully.
I think one of the issues is perception. If a cyclist violates a law, people remember it and apply to all cyclists. If a driver breaks a law, people (who are generally drivers) dont really perceive it as a problem, for example speeding, mobile phone use, tailgating etc.
I was thinking about this when a car just rolled over a pavement out of a driveway when it was my right to walk past. If that was a cyclist, a lot of people would get angry, but as it was a driver, people just accept it and dont really perceive it.
100%. Shit driving is so normal that it doesn't even register. I reckon that if you asked a driver who was stuck behind a cyclist for 2 minutes in their 30 minute journey to describe it they would complain about that cyclist and completely ignore the 10 minutes they spent in car traffic, the 20 or 30 stupid things they saw other drivers do and all they would remember was that cyclist.
Absolutely! I like the majority of cyclists also drive (and walk), I have *way* more bother with other cars when I'm in the car or on the bike than I do with people on bikes.
Even if cyclists were just as reckless and law breaking as drivers (and it's been proven time and time again they are not) the simple matters is they are mainly putting themselves at risk not others, not the same with big heavy fast moving vehicles. (I mean this increased personal risk when your on the bike is what makes you travel more carefully than in a protected car)
I think part of the issue is that cars getting bigger, heavier, and therefore "safer" give them a false sense of security to be more reckless in a car. A cyclist who is being reckless does it at the risk of their own lives (stupid, but who am I to judge), but a driver who is being reckless does so at the risk of everyone else around them. Which makes it a lot worse imo
@@eyoo1109 absolutely. Hence higher powered and bulkier cars are usually (not always) the worst drivers. I feel subconsciously there is a sense that "I'm safe, so therefore there's a bit more leeway to drive more dangerously".
But why?
I think social media has really exacerbated this problem
it doesn't help at times!
Every issue is magnified , politicized and polarizing , at warp speed now ! Yeah .. I’m OAF , it’s a different way for people to be jackals , in my ancient , CTE influenced opinion
I was just going to type the same thing--I think there's some social media subculture of cycling haters. They amplify each other's opinions and then feel more free to act out, speak out, etc.... The same points are made repeatedly. I don't even really understand the source of the anger/rage. It's pretty weird. If it's all about rage at inconvenience caused by cyclists on the road, then why aren't they mad about delivery vehicles instead? It seems pretty random.
I'm doing Rebound 😃 at stupid o'clock 😫
What does "exacerbated" mean?
I've enjoyed road biking for more than thirty years, but I have never been so demotivated to ride my bike than under the current climate, where there is so much hostility towards cyclists. How did we get to this? It's utterly depressing.
Because car usage has been demonised and sanctioned by the authorities to make themselves more money, whereas cyclists have not.
@@wildsurfer12 Brah, what? There's a ton of money in cars. Much more than in public transit, or bicycles, or certainly walking. That's exactly why we have ended up and remain in the car centric world we are in. Regardless of what some may say, cars effectively are being pushed on us, not sanctioned.
You could always ride steel keirin bikes very aggressively against the car users instead of giving up. As a carbon fiber roadie on a modern race bike in lycra you are a target, but you can become a menace instead, wear jeans and boots on the bike and make others the target instead. Don't give up.
@@wildsurfer12there is no war on cars.
@@carpcruiser2122 There used to be, not so much now. Today there's more money to be squeezed from people by restricting their mobility
Most cyclists are also drivers. Very few drivers are also cyclists. Right there is a big part of the problem - it allows the non-cycling drivers to treat the drivers who cycle as some sort of enemy tribe.
Another part of the problem are the lies told to drivers. They are sold ever more expensive vehicles (and have to pay ever more to use them) via advertising that promises them wide, empty roads. Whereas the reality is an hour-long crawl into work in the morning, and an hour-long slog to get home again at the end of the day. On pothole-riddled roads. Who gets the blame for the potholes? "bloody cyclists", who pay nothing towards the roads' upkeep (apart from those cyclists who own cars, or pay any sort of tax, obviously - but let's not mention them). Who is actually to blame for potholes? Those who are responsible for squeezing road maintenance budgets, in combination with those who drive heavier and heavier vehicles. But we don't want drivers blaming the actual source of the problem, when there is a convenient minority all ready set up to be scapegoated.
I think the "cyclists are drivers/few driver are cyclists" thing is a core factor. I've noticed that "cyclists are freeloaders" notion voiced by the cyclist hater people repeatedly as well--it's pretty weird. I guess they can't comprehend people cycling might be doing their hobby/fitness routine and must imagine all cyclists only ride 100% of their life and don't work and pay taxes and drive too? It's beyond flat-earth sort of social media tribal fantasy creation. It's actually a pretty interesting case to think about. I think their fantasy about cyclists rests on a tandem fantasy about the cycling hater's sense of self worth coming from their imagined society role of suffering and dutifully paying taxes or something like that.
Yesterday someone tried to overrune me on purpose.
At first he overtake extremly close with his SUV. Then he blocked the road in front of me and screamed at me. I was full of adrenaline an screamed back, wich i shouldn't had do. The he tried to overrune me. This was so close. Was about 300m from home after a 3h ride. I never cried after a ride. Happend in germany on a public holiday.
this sounds terrible😞
Hope you are ok now?
@@gcn Yes absolutely. It wont stop me from riding my bike outdoors :)
Thanks for asking
This is my worry that the rhetoric spills over to the physical (initially verbal, but ultimately physical).
We need a better dashcam legislation in Germany. This sounds like it is a case for the Staatsanwaltschaft.
You’ve basically posted an identical situation to mine from the weekend (even my reaction and regret) - mine happened in the UK on the day a lot bad press was released. Si is right though… I needed to take the higher ground (difficult in dangerous situations)
One of the main reasons people hate cyclists is jealousy, in general general people tend to have animosity towards people who are doing something about their health. You see someone doing something that deep down you know you should probably be doing, and instead of dealing with the subconscious thoughts about your own health, you lash at the people doing things that trigger your insecurity about your lack of fitness and health
I'm not convinced of this... People just have this feeling they are going v slow and don't like it. We somehow become a little less civilized in a car from picking our nose to swearing at those we think are getting in our way.. we are animal evolved from homins like homo errectus. Aggression is part of our bio chemical make up. It was more useful when we were hunter gathers and less useful when we sit behind desks all day and don't find a positive outlet to release those energies /
I think that is a bit oversimplisitc (is this an English word?) and also rude towards other people taking part in traffic not riding a bicycle. Part of the truth is also that 1% of cyclist do not follow the rules, do not stop at red traffic or overtake you at a very high speed on a shared part of the pavement. And it is that 1% that stays in peoples minds, not the 99% of cyclist following the rules.
Just as everybody knows that BMW drivers never pay attention to the speed limit and overtake you without the mandatory safety distance.
Agreed, i have a cycling friend who has always said it boils down to jealousy.
Yes, but as a cyclist you are not so much limited to the roads as a car driver. You are flexible in navigating the obstacles and basically any passage wide enough for your bars are by fact cycling way. This creates jealousy but it is a dangerous gemeint for us
no that is stupid, c'mon, and also very egotistical. And stupid. We are simply inconveniencing them, getting in their way, which, if done whilst the other person is angrily driving a vehicle, can lead to anger and violence in the snap of a finger.
I am personally terrified of riding on the road, I usually ride on trails. I had a friend pass away due to a distracted motorist and another gravely ill in the hospital for the same reason. "Funfact": the motorist that almost killed one of my fellow cyclist kept telling the police officer, "I don't know why you are here, I was doing the speed limit". I think we are doomed as a society...
it's always been a race been doom & nirvana... & a close run thing.
why I am not going to let a lazy fat motorist scare me off the road motorists kill more people than guns and drugs
we are so sorry to hear about your experiences and how this has affected your enjoyment of road riding
I rode on pavement/gravel for 40 years and loved it! But because of increased traffic and friends injured by cars, I switched to single track/XC trails about 15 years ago. I have almost been run over by deer several times, but no bad crashes so far. I had a few flips on the road almost hitting dogs or loosing traction on sand/wet wooden boardwalks when on the 25 mm. Ha ha! Luckily neither me or my bike have been injured in 25mph road incidents.
My wife almost lost her life out on a country road with a first timer cyclist one early approx 6am summer morning. These two clowns were racing side by side and they came round a bend right into her. she was forced into the hedge and her friend just behind wobbled and did the same and since then she has never road ridden and the friend has never got her bike out. Two absolute fkn lunatics almost killed them because they wanted to race. In the blink of an eye it could have been curtains. So sorry for your loss.
Motorists are going to have to deal with the reality of driving in cities: As they expand to fit more people, not everyone will be able to drive in a single passenger vehicle everywhere. It's simple math. This is why future-thinking councils are adding more cycling infrastructure and transit. But this frustrates drivers who think "I was able to drive my car from A to B in 15 minutes 15 years ago!" so they lash out at people riding bikes, thinking we are a special interest group rather than people who are doing the logical thing and enjoying themselves while riding to school and work. Paris is figuring this out, Amsterdam has been doing it, Copenhagen etc etc.
Yes! Every time I ride past a long line of cars stuck in traffic I hope they re-think their habits. People driving themselves around with 4 empty seats and an empty trunk makes no sense to me, cars are ok for transporting goods or groups not just one person to their office.
I tried my best promoting cycling to work for the past 2 years since the traffic is unbearable driving car to work. But i thinks its quite hard since many still thinks its dangerous to ride bicycle because people getting addicted to cellphones while driving car.
@@NeverTooTiredToRideTwoTyres This! People shouldn't be driving a large vehicle if they are just commuting solo
Exactly. Cities have finite space. And in the US, with our weird zoning laws, often times people refuse to build UP. So, you end up with situations like we're in now: the total parking space hasn't changed. Parallel parking spaces havent changed. But people complain about lack of space for their single occupant vehicle, which has gotten noticeably larger in the last 15 years
This phenomenon does not exist in the Netherlands. Main reason is that we have lots of separate bike paths. A lot lot. Even in nature reservats where can come with bike, not with car, sometimes yes you could come with car, but only as a rural small dead-end street. Once you push bikers, motorists and pedestrians on one giant pile where you get all the conflicts. The root of all the angrynes.
So solution: more separate bike paths. Convert some rural roads into dead-end street for cars, but where bikes can still go on. Add new roads around the towns. Add more bike/pedestrian tunnels or bridges. Or Just lift the road. Add some trains and busses.
Yeah, was about to comment this as well. Its clearly political, but giving bikes the same infrastructure as cars could solve most of these perceived issues.
Go Netherlands!
not only the bike paths. biking in NL goes back to the 19th Century as normal part of life in a small country (US about 200 X NL area). US abandoned the bike (& later trains, & even buses) as embedded in society & economy when the Model T made every citizen a car owner & gas was really cheap (lotsa holes dug in TX). tough to change back to the paths-not-taken, but we're trying.
I loved cycling on the Netherlands for that reason.
I would add that also most people are cyclists, therefore understand cyclist issues. Even though there are separated cyclist lanes, yes, there is still a need to interact with cars, and when I as a cyclist had to do so, I was pleasantly shocked at the room and consideration I was given compared to the UK.
As a Dutch person who's lived and cycled abroad for four years, I kind of disagree with you, but only slightly. There are parts of the Netherlands that are so extremely crowded that even on separate bike paths, you're not safe, and you can't stop thinking about traffic for two seconds. The reason is other bike path users. When I have time to ride my bike, other people do as well. Riding in big, slow groups, looking on their cell phones (which countermeasure laws are clearly not enforced), not being able to anticipate on road bikes approaching at 35-40 km/h... You can easily lose your life if one of these "recreanten" isn't paying attention coming the other way.
@Aragorn.Strider "Main reason is that we have lots of separate bike paths. " - also in NL poorly planned cycle infrastructure projects are extremely rare, the national guidelines for cycleway construction ensure that bike paths (seperated or not, urban or rural) are good for the intended purpose and safer than alternatives. In other places this isn't necessarily the case.
Whenever the government wants to detract attention from some scandal of their own making, they tend to bring up any one of a number of classic “potential policies” as they know us idiots will start debating them and forget the other stories of the week. Examples include - raising the speed limit on motorways, insurance / license plates for cyclists, etc. it works nearly every time…
This.
It’s all part of the Tories culture war distraction tactics
Let’s see if it works for Labour when they start having their own government scandals. We all know they’ll have plenty of them.
@@wildsurfer12 tell me you aren't voting conservative 😂
.... introducing national service for 18 year olds.
The "MH-14" was a joke, as it's a Microphone Holder, and Park always name their tools with the initials of exactly what they do. E.X. Chain Checker is CC-4, Bottom Bracket Tool is BBT-9, Saw Guide is SG-7.3 etc. Ollie and Bartholomew would have gotten it... Also, Kudos to Connor for pronouncing my name right!
Aaahhha that's brilliant!! We missed that one 🤙🙏 cheers for sending it in!!
I had to come to the comments to see if Si had realised the joke yet 😂
Yup, got it straight away
I love the idea that being nice to an angry motorist will descalate the situation. I've always found that being nice and friendly to angry drivers just inflames the situation as they think I'm mocking them (What? Moi?). My worst road-rage incident while on a bike was a guy that followed me along a narrow country lane sounding his horn to try to get me to levitate out of his way. when I could pull into a passing place, I waved in a friendly manner as he passed. So what did he do? Just an emergency stop, jumped out and was all set to clobber me (60 year old woman) when the following driver actually drove his car between us to cut him off and then told him where to get off.
Sorry to hear you've had such a nasty experience! It can be really tough to know what to do, but great to see that someone came to help you out 🙌
A good one I’ve heard is instead of shouting at a driver when you (inevitably) catch up with them tell them how much their close pass etc frightened you? Gets it off your chest isn’t aggressive and gives the chance of an apology?
In the UK 99% of drivers are ok towards cyclists. It's important not to make the 1% who dislike cyclists seem like 50%. Legacy media is on its last legs. National newspaper circulation is so low now it's not worth worrying about anything they write. As for the BBC, well they'll be gone soon anyway. Keep calm and carry on riding.
Like anything, a small minority make the most noise! As you say, keep calm and carry on riding!
Alas, I don't feel that it is anywhere near 99%. I feel the recent changes to the law have perhaps made it worst.
You are being far far far too generous. Perhaps 1% are genuinely dangerous towards cyclists but a much larger proportion still hate cyclists. I know far too many completely level headed people who hate cyclists. The sort that you would consider very liberal or generally very tolerant. Get them on the topic of cyclists and my word. They wouldn't endanger a cyclist intentionally but they still don't like us.
Don't mistake direct violence on the road for the views of the average person.
This is an absolute lie.
We have to be careful though. When the mainstream media is gone, we have to deal with online outfits that are much harder to control.
I’m in the US. I think people are angry at cyclists because they hate driving. It’s a chore, and it makes them irrationally angry when anything at all gets in their way or slows them down in the slightest. People drive angry. When I personally drive I almost always see someone else on the road acting out with their car. I want things to improve but for myself I’m not willing to be a martyr for the cause. The ghost bikes I see are enough of a deterrent. I seriously think it’ll take people not being able to afford their vehicles anymore and looking for alternate transit to get the views to change. Until then it’s rail trails for me!
I am also in the US and I agree with this statement.
This.
here, we see cyclists blaming the blamers with ridiculous bias." I am skinny and fit", thus they resent me. nope!! cyclists are conceited and entitled, and blame others for their opposing views "they are fat, so they hate me". we have all become Donald Trump, blaming and canceling and not listening.
Well written. 👍
I'd agreed. People are so stressed that as soon as they are inconvenienced in any way they, they lose it. Couple that with being in a protective steel cage, people turn into maniacs.
I got stuck in traffic at rush hour the other day. It took me 20min to go about 1.5km. A few cycle commuters, and I'm talking about 5 I saw in that time, sailed on past effortlessly and disappeared off into the distance right to the front of the queue at the next lights. No stress, or frustration. I so wished I was on my bike that day! Funny how motorists don't see one of the obvious solutions.
Nothing worse that being stuck in traffic when the cycling FOMO hits 👀
Why is the attitude to cyclists so different in France? Every summer I tour through France, the French love cycling and cyclists.
I agree the government are trying a deflection tactic. And boy, do they need one!
because they are not morons
Well .. I live in a small touristic town in France and when I go out for a ride I can feel the hostility from drivers and pedestrians. I always do my best to avoid accidents but some people will point the finger at you just because you're on a bicycle instead of giving apologise for their bad behaviour 😕
I would guess maybe because of the TDF and the heritage / prestige that comes with hosting the worlds greatest bike race. That will have an effect on the population and I would suggest that most (not all) will see it as a positive thing.
I’d imagine it’s because in France, people grow up being told positive things about cyclist/cycling, whereas in the UK kids grow up seeing stuff like this latest article, and everyone moaning about cyclists.
@@rob-c.The war on cyclists seems to be mainly an Anglosphere phenomenon. No idea why though
In addition to everything mentioned, we subconsciously attribute car issues to the cars directly, but attribute cycling problems to the human involved.
For example, “that car almost hit me!” Vs “that cyclist almost hit me!”
We believe cars are just part of the environment that we have to deal with, while cyclists are humans that can be banned, limited, changed, etc.
That's a very interesting point! Do you think that is because the person is more visible on the the bike?
@@gcn I’m sure that’s part of it! At least here in the US, our built environment is structured almost entirely around the use of automobiles, such that the average citizen can’t imagine there’s anything we can actually do to change it. Basically, people can’t imagine a world where they don’t have to drive or where streets accommodate anything other than cars.
A percentage of cyclists ride inconsiderately, holding up traffic by riding 2 abreast, or in big groups, jumping traffic lights, weaving through traffic, or with no lights…. In short, cyclists are seen as an unwelcome road hazard by both drivers and pedestrians… That motorists also drive inconsiderately seems not to factor in.
Tbf car drivers tend to ride two abreast or in large groups… of empty seats
Drivers kill 5 people per day. That is beyond inconsiderate. There is one road in Britain reported where 180+ drivers jump red lights every day.
Cage rage. It's actually a psychological term. The rage can be aimed at anything, really. Bikes are just more "in the way" for cars than other means of transportation..
its scary imo how much of a hair trigger some drivers are on, I cant help feel substance abuse is behind alot of it, but you literally dont have to do much of anything as a cyclist before you can get a road rage reaction from a driver.
I could apply that to many cyclists I've had interactions with (coincidentally some have outed themselves as merc drivers).
Perhaps we need to ditch the tribal BS and start acknowledging that bad road users come in all shapes and sizes.
I respectfully disagree with the idea of taking the Gandhi route to anger against cyclists. The fact that most of the civilised Europe has moved towards a cycling friendly attitude - Spain, France, NL, Italy, Sweden, Denmark, Belgium, Germany all come to mind - whereas UK is receding into the middle ages says the way forward is to fight back. I will not turn the other cheek when a driver cuts me off because he thinks it's his right to drive the way he wants.
Now flip this round............why should drivers be like ghandi when cyclists think they can ride like they want.......
Tye way forward for drivers is to fight back.....
Italy is not cyclist friendly, I have found Italian drivers just as aggressive as UK drivers, it’s pretty dangerous there these days
@@elliotwilliams7421 does "ride like they want" cover exerciseing clearly marked rights of way? 90% of the conflict I experience relates to drivers who sincerely belive that give way lines don't apply to them, you can physically point out the signs and the markings but it makes no difference. Until someone nearly kills you through inattention then laughs in your face you can't understand.
@Hurc7495 what about what about what about what about
@@elliotwilliams7421 you clearly feel so thretened. it would be wrong of me to agitate you any further.
Here in the Seattle area we've got more cyclist paths and bike lanes... which some people (I've noticed mostly older generation) think they get to block with dog walking or standing and chatting. They then don't move with an initial "on your left" and an "excuse me" leads to angry looks.
I'll admit I'm not the type to keep silent and will indeed give them full attitude
maybe some signs need to be installed reminding pedestrians to keep an eye out for bikes?
Dog owners are generally selfish people, and they think everyone should love (and tolerate) their dog. I will if you'll tolerate my bike! And keep the mutt under control and away from my wheels!
@gcn all the local hiking places around me have big signs reminding people to be courteous and yield appropriately. I think it helps a lot.
Us old people are slow to adjust to changes, perhaps they don't do it to annoy you.
Hah, then we would need signs to remind people to read the signs.
I’m a cyclist and also drive a BMW - I have no friends 😢
lt's possibly just you....🤫
At least it's not an Audi
lol
Have you found the indicators??
The negative perception of BMW drivers is similar to the way some people think of cyclists - see a small percentage of them driving badly and it's extrapolated to include all the rest. It's easier to hate than being reasonable.
😂
50 years motor industry experience and I can tell you the standard of driving is at an all time low.
A trainee RAF officer using lights and a family man was killed by a motorcar user, he was let off because he was a businessman
Considering yet another person has been killed by a dangerous dog today, if there is any kind of argument for 3rd party insurance for cyclists surely the same has to happen for owners of dogs of prescribed breeds as a far higher priority.
Good point.
About a quarter of the road cyclists that I know have required medical attention because of poorly tended dogs. Still, there is a general reluctance for cyclists to report these interactions with the authorities. In fairness, the few times that I have engaged animal control, nothing came of it.
@@DEAR7340 that is a great point too.
Thankfully I have not had any dog related issues til now out on the bike, I was more saying that in general dangerous dogs are a far greater problem than cyclists but my suspicion is that cyclists are perceived as white, male, well off, middle class and probably a bit skinny and wimpy as opposed to your mental image of an XL bully owner.
Clearly the dog owner poses the greater threat to society but the cyclist is a softer target for policy to gouge.
Should point out I also have two dogs, but neither could be considered a dangerous breed unless you're scared of being licked to death!
Agreed; while I will state "there are no bad dogs, just bad owners"...certain breeds /are/ more likely to be aggressive (or not...I've never felt threatened by a golden retriever), and prospective owners should be checked as to whether they are capable of training and socializing the dog correctly. And will do so.
Very good point
I pretty much only ride on trails and roads with very little traffic nowadays. All it takes is one idiot to ruin your life
THIS
Not even safe in your own home from a car. About a decade ago in my current town, a teen was killed while sleeping in his own bed by a driver speeding his SUV through a neighborhood.
Riding off road can give you that great separation from traffic! Are you riding a gravel bike?
Agree!
Most drivers are courteous and give cyclists room because a few seconds' delay isn't going to harm them. However, I experienced a situation only today where I moved to the right of the lane to turn right after clearly signaling. A car then raced up behind me and undertook me, shouting, "What the f**k are you doing?" Some drivers will get a stern reply when they act like this.😡
No idea what to do about all that rage. I live in the Netherlands and am both a cyclist and a driver. The world is at peace...
You have it sorted!
The advantage of the Netherlands is, neither are right-wing parties identifying cyclists as the archenemy's knights, nor are politicians puppeteered or the public brainwashed by the car industry.
Do speed limits apply to cyclists in the NL?
@@hughjanus7354 not for bikes, but speeding is still frowned upon. Going over 30 in a cul de sac is considered amateuristic. And not everybody is as tolerant as they make the Dutch out to be.
@@hughjanus7354 not explicitly not, so yes. on the other hand cyclist can go faster then pedal assisted - or plain mopeds. (25km/u max) So you could see a cyclist passing at 40 km/u while you are going 25-30 on your moped ;) There are more implicit rules than laws in this perspect/territory. usually you won't go more than 30 on your bike within city limits. There are assholes and other exceptions of course.
But you can still kill someone on a bike with a car, and it's just an accident. What a dumb ass law.
"Hasn't everyone already suffered enough?"
Okay - cancelling my trip to the UK next week. Reporters are obviously on a rampage and will be trying to put me in jail because I will be riding a bike. Hillarious!
It'll probably be pissing down anyway so you won't be missing much.
Please don't cancel! We have some amazing rides 🙌... Just bring your best waterproofs ☔
Cyclsts are an easy to "other" or "out" as a group as it's a minority mode of transport in the UK. The tories are desperate to do anything to appeal to their base who at this point are more right wing than they usually are. Cyclists are an easy target for them. Most people aren't made angry by cyclists. Conservative party members however ( the sort that thought Liz Truss would make a good PM, to give you an idea of their competence) get very angry at cyclists so given the tory party's current goals, they're an easy and risk free group to attack.
Meanwhile British cyclists suffer more dangerous driving as a result having been whipped up by rags like the Daily Mail and Telegraph, goaded on by the tories.
Tories ooh tories tories tories...😂 wtaf are you on
@@spm36 I'm on the UA-cam comments section, which explains why I have to deal with juvenile comments like yours.
@@Boopop1024 pavement cyclists are a big problem where I come from, glad they are trying to instil some discipline among the entitled cycling community (not all of us, I'm a daily ROAD cyclist) ... by far the majority of cyclists in Doncaster use the pavement.
@@MrVorpalsword Then your problem is not pavement cyclists, your problem is lack of segregated cycle infrastructure.
@@Boopop1024 No, they would not use them as they don't now and kerbed off street level cycle paths aren't a panacea ... they're pretty difficult to cross in Manchester Oxford road for instance. The people in little towns like Doncaster have no conception of following the rules of the road it needs policing, and the police stopping dangerous, fast pavement cyclists, but the Police don't police the streets anymore do they? Honestly, cyclists on pavements were rare until the last wave of Polish immigration, I think pavement cycling must have been legal in Poland ... the thing is, already the Police had given up and the scared working class cyclist just copied the Poles .... and there is no bolder , educated middle-class in these little Northern towns to set an example. It makes it different from University cities and London which are more law abiding. Although the big student populations have led to the cycle food courier on his e-bike swarming the pavements, because the Police have never told the immigrant population about the Highway Code.
Being inside a car is stressful.. everything is out there to 'harm' you (or your pocket) speed cameras, traffic agents, other vehicles might damage your car, you may hit a huge pothole and damage your car, even the weather can damage your car.. That's all out of my mind when I'm cycling.
Those problems would affect you on a bike as well, maybe even more so...
Some of the things you've listed that are out to harm your pocket are also there to keep the roads safer. Pot holes aren't much fun whatever vehicle you're in, but at least cars have a suspension coil and shock absorber on each corner.
This is just one case in which cycling gives you head space! 🙌 Isn't it great what being on the bike can do?
Ironic given that drivers are, at least on lower speed limit roads, to all intents and purposes invincable.
I had a conversation with a friend who hates cyclists. After a long discussion we isolated it to the fact that “they’re in my way”.
I've had that same conversation. I said "well it's not like we are cycling around drunk is it?" You see I knew they had been done for drunk driving.
In all things; on a bike, in a car, at work or at home, I advocate for the "show, don't tell" approach. Hold yourself to the highest level of civility and respect that you want to engender in those around you. People don't generally respond well to lectured, regards of how tactful you are. Collectively we will make positive change!
A smile and a thumb's up to angry motorists goes a long way to confuse the hell out of them long enough for the situation to pass.
I bet the motorists who are angry at me when i'm on my bike and the motorists who get angry at me when i obey the speed limit in my car are probably the same
Very good point
Am I the only one who would love to see video with Connor's mother in law giving advice on how to fold cycling shorts?
The real problem with cyclists on the road is that we make people driving cars have to look up from their phones. You know how drivers hate distractions.
I see more delivery cyclists playing on their phones than drivers
Only 4 pedestrians are killed by cyclists compared to 400 people killed by cars
Where is this and over what period of time?
Where I live on average 5 people are killed every week by motorists (out of a population of just under 2 million) Genuinely can't recall the last time it was reported (and it would be widely reported) when a cyclist killed a pedestrian/motorist.
@@polreamonn UK govt official figures for 2022. Not sure the figures for the numbers attributed to being caused by bikes or cars were in the official breakdown.
I think the total road deaths was something around 1700 for the same year which was lower than previous years
Simon Pegg posted a “joke” video slagging off cyclists on Instagram whilst he was driving and my goodness the hornets nest of hate he stirred up was frightening. He basically made it okay for these people to voice their vitriol, even insulting people who said they lost cycling family members to motorists. Yet go to Europe and cyclist are not demonised
Face it he isn't funny
@@user-ps4rg1cr1r he has got less funny the older he’s got and more involved with Tom cruise and co
I've noticed that many motorists seem to forget that most of us cyclists (99.9%) also own and drive motor vehicles as well. When I've reminded some of this obvious factoid, they seemed to deflate and walk away.
Nowhere close 99.9% own cars. Not even 99.9% have licences
a lot of cyclists are children
My small act of resistance was cancelling my subscription to the Telegraph Online. Been meaning to do it for a while but it felt good telling the ‘win back’ agent that it was because of their anti cycling stance. The fat blobs!
On the topic of how to respond to an environment hostile to cycling, I am on board with Si to keep cycling and be happy about it as much as possible. I've been bringing my girls to school by bike for 2 years, and I've slowly seen more families arriving by bike and scooter. I hope that seeing someone doing this was enough to encourage a few families to make the jump to active transport.
That's awesome! Great to hear that you are seeing more people turning up on bikes 🙌 Do your kids enjoy the bike commute?
I'm going to upset some people here...
Cycling has been my main means of transport for 50 years from starting university. I've advocated for cycling. I've cycled all over, under, around, through London sometimes at high speeds - faster than underground from Earls Court to East Ham and faster than car from Horsham in Sussex to Swiss Cottage. I've had suit and laptop in panniers for 25 miles, washed and changed in gents at council offices for important meetings and been smartest dressed in the room. I've ridden fixed, luggage carriers, steel. aluminium, and carbon fibre racers in all weathers. But I've lost my nerve as a cyclist and become ashamed of being known as a cyclist.
How many times have I stopped at red lights at pedestrian crossings only to have a bike smash past me and swerve through folk on foot, elderly, pushchairs, wheelchairs - goes back 20+ years. Greenwich & Woolwich Foot Tunnels - ultra bad behaviour done by all demographics (and, occasionally, not done by all demographics): my son (also a cyclist) bought a car to visit us in Beckton from Woolwich because the tunnel wasn't safe for his pregnant wife or our grandson in pushchair. Still fit and with good reactions, I feel unsafe on pavements and, when with my wife (less mobile due to several injuries) and other age 70+ friends and relatives, pavements can be terrifying due to bikes, ebikes, scooters. Mountain bike handlebars make bikes wide.
No lights, inadequate lights, huge blokes with heavy loads... that's massive momentum and kinetic energy moving silently. The rage and aggression shown by cyclists towards other cyclists and pedestrians. I still ride up steep hills faster than most pedal cyclists but ebikes cruise up with no effort and wide handlebars to catch you and flip you over. My daughter just had her first child: from what some might call very woke and a dedicated London cyclist, she now hates bikes while surrounding her comments with conceding we need a total re-work of transport infrastructure and the delivery riders are paid so little they can't afford to bother with Highway Code (which they probably don't know exists).
Now... I walk up to ten miles from A to B. My Travel Pass gets me off the pavement. I now drive a large diesel Ford Galaxy to ferry wife and friends to their classes, meetings, etc and to carry DIY gear to work on friend and family houses. I gave away two bikes in lockdown and replaced them with an Orbea 7-speed urban bike which I use after cutting 30mm off each handlebar end and might remove more but the time taken to put on lights, lock up, etc makes walking better for anything up to 35 minutes. I am getting my 2018 Roubaix Elite serviced to have one last go at doing 100 km a day on it or my 2007 Cannondale SystemSix. Depending on what I think at end of June, I'll get rid of one or the other or, possibly, both and finally give up on cycling. If Roubaix does well, I'll get wider tyres and the kit needed to service hydraulic brakes myself. But I'm scared of riding out of town on my own due to the motorised haters and muggers.
As for cycle lanes... there must be some that demonstrate some sort of logic and value but all those around here seem to exist to tick a spending target. They are far worse than when we had no such lanes for a variety of reasons: too narrow to be useful; the push cars & buses close to each other in the centre of the road so, if something startles them, they swerve into the bike lane; they often make life difficult for pedestrians; they take you out of the line of sight of motor vehicles; they make motor vehicles (and ebikes etc) turn across you when they turn left; they make faster bikes and ebikes run closer to slower bikes than is safe. Nobody uses them (except me and I hate them so I'm giving up on them).
Motorists who hate cyclists may be a minority but it's not insignificant. Must be at least 10% and that's a lot of motorists (and some of those are genuinely nice, reasonable, Highway Code respecting people who are now fed up with cyclist attitudes). On top of that, maybe 1% are furiously reckless drivers (I've seen them and been scared by them as pedestrian, cyclist, and driver and as member of a community police speed checking team). But a heavy bloke on a bike or scooter doing 25+ mph downhill furiously on and off pavements is even scarier. There are higher levels of hate and unwarranted aggression than in my younger days but it's a vicious circle with cyclist behaviour as part of that feedback loop.
I am a car driver and own 7 bikes… cyclists need to follow the rules of the road, car drivers need to be less angry! But if you kill someone by your actions (as a bike rider) then you should expect a similar sanction to any other case of manslaughter.
THIS! 👍
Since I've started cycling, one comment ive heard often is "dont let the ebikes on hiking trails, theyre too dangerous" but nobody is going extra fast downhill with a motor and most people use them to creep up the climbs without wearing themselves out. When I point this out, they usually concede and get upset about something else cyclists do
We should be able to share paths with other users. This means a mutual respect is needed from both parties ( including us cyclists) What do you think could be done to make the relationship better?
@gcn not sure. I think hikers often aren't paying attention and get scared when bikes pass. I try to call out early. One of the trails near me has bells you can borrow, which is pretty cool because it sets an expectation for all trail users
The Daily Telegraph (effectively Tory party Pravda) has been going with cyclist hating headlines for weeks. Today "I fought the blob after Cyclist killed my wife", yesterday "number plates for cyclists to solve road mayhem".
It's insidious and incredibly dangerous, as it all contributes to the zeitgeist over and above winding up the frothing readership.
The fact that they would onky mount this sort of campaign with the approval/encouragement of our current governing party is profoundly depressing.
And while these idiots focus on cyclists, terrible vehicle drivers are killing more and more people.
Daily Mail does the same.
The most disturbing aspect is the user comments that just spew hatred towards cyclists. The media should be held accountable for revving up the stupid people but they never are. Clicks are king.
Start cycling a while ago, maybe two weeks. Cycling on the road is a nightmare, even though I already cycling on the white thingy at the side of the road, but still many motorcycles and cars just honk at me to move out of the way. There's even a motorcyclist yelling at me to move out of the way, even though I'm on the shoulder of the road. For this time I gave up cycling on the road and just went for small uphill and trail roads.
Another worst case I ever had is, as a cyclist you just get ignored, like you never existed. Car or motorcycle passing you? they just went by not even moving a little bit to pass you. Want to use a traffic light? Nuh uh, there's a motorcyclist who wants to turn, you just happen on the wrong side, and boom your front tire just gets hit. Want to stop at the shoulder of the road or get out of the road? Nuh uh, get honk again to move out of the way.
I agree with Si’s point about being courteous and friendly. I try to make eye contact with oncoming motorists and give them a wave. More often than not I get a wave back. At intersections I will let drivers go before me, they will likely pass me if I go first.
Should pedestrians carry their insurance papers too then? They walk in the middle of cycling lanes with headphones on and totally oblivious to cyclists, regardless of bells, shouting bike back. Bloody dangerous. Here in Perth, Oz motorists hate cyclists yet complain about traffic, CO2 emissions 🙄🙄etc.jokers!
I ride in The States (Southwestern Ohio) mainly on Rail Trails accessible 2 miles from home. Safety is my main concern at 66 year old but when I road ride I do it from 9am to 3pm to avoid rush hours on 2 lane local roads. Retired and every day is a Saturday...
Society hates cyclists in Britain, when I started in the 1980s people would think you were weird riding a bike and wearing all the gear. That’s more acceptable now but the roads are far busier and the country is massively over populated. I drive and cycle and you can see people getting stressed driving because the roads are so busy. I do see the odd nice driver when I’m out but cyclists are considered disposable by the general public. I will only ride on certain roads now due to it being too dangerous. I wouldn’t recommend any to ride on the road. Also the law considers cyclists non people compared to other countries. I see cars go through red lights 10 times a day and nobody says anything but when a cyclist does it it’s big news. Both are dangerous .
Would you say that cyclists an easy bunch to blame and point a finger at?
I wish drivers would just realize that a 5-10second inconvenience a few times a day but letting a cyclist get through a tough/narrow section or allowing a cyclists to merge costs them NOTHING and is unnoticeable in their daily life. I think a big problem is those in vehicles think that every second counts all the time and thus what should be a minor inconvenience (such as waiting for an oncoming car to pass so that they can bump out and give a cyclist appropriate space) feels dramatic. They only see the people inside their own vehicle as human beings and everything and everyone else is an impediment only.
Maybe councils and road authorities are part of the problem. Half of the traffic calming measures do everyone a disservice by squeezing traffic. Centreline poles make it almost impossible for cars to safely overtake cyclists. No paved shoulders, dangerous “last Gen” grates, and no advanced green lights for cyclists make the roads more dangerous for cyclists. None of these things are the fault of drivers. They’re symptoms of bad road design and local politicians not thinking sensibly.
"Does not consider cyclists as people" Absolutely spot on. The sentences, fines and attitude prove you correct.
The "sausage check" was unnecessary until the UCI banned the super tuck
Make sure to use bum butter 😂
I love road cycling, but I’m always very careful to choose my routes carefully. I’ll always do my best to avoid busy, main roads. It’s not always possible to exclude them completely - but with a little planning and map reading you can minimise how much time you have to spend sharing the road with busy traffic. I always thank cars that wait to pass me when it’s safe - but I’m amazed by how many he need to overtake on corners or the brows of hills, just to save a couple of seconds. I try to pull over if I sense I’m holding someone up and there’s a safe spot to do this.
It's tough sometimes being the more civilised, intelligent adult but they hate us enough. If you do just one thing nice then they might be nice to the next cyclist they see.
Some people want to drag everybody else down to their level. If that's paying tax, sitting in traffic, being miserable, they want everybody else to suffer too.
Us cyclists can just keep enjoying ourselves 🙌
I often think drivers are doing something they don't want to do. Driving to work, driving to the supermarket, driving to their 98 year old grandfather in law (who can't even remember his own family's names, let alone theirs), etc. More often than not, they are rushing to finish these things. They then see somebody riding a bike which means they have loads of spare time and are having fun. The driver wants to be doing fun things and like a child, lashes out to spoil other peoples fun. How dare anybody have all this spare time to think about waxing and nutrition.
yeah right, l'm riding my bike to the supermarket, rode 34km round trip to visit my mother in a care home every couple of days, for four years. Half the time, drivers are doing things they really don't need to do in a car, good grief , the world needs to get real ! l am a very considerate cyclist , wish all drivers can be the same.....Of course l can drive... very well...
We don't spend all our time thinking about chain waxing.... sometimes we think about new bikes too 😉
that only applies if you assume all cyclists are hobbyists. a lot are people who cant afford cars, dont know how to drive, are children, etc
Bicycles are not "motor vehicles" so by law they don't need insurance in order to be ridden. In the case of e-bikes with a throttle it may be different depending on how fast it can go.
Agreed. I have insurance because it could be my fault. Mostly because had £350 of damage to my bike after I hit a pothole on a poorly maintained road. The council refused to pay out.
Anti-cyclist attitude comes down to one thing - we are faster than cars when they are stuck in a traffic jam, which is often.
Proabably multiple reasons. Impatience is one. Road rage is directed at other drivers as much as cyclists. Everyone is in a hurry. And, the other reason is semi political. Cyclists especially on the road in lycra are stereotyped as healthy, possibly vegeterian, and environmentally conscious. And that means far left liberal.
I have heard that drivers are far more considerate when cameras are around. I already look stupid in a bright orange bike helmet and now I have to plant a camera on top to make people behave.
I’ve always thought it would be great if one of the soap operas had a storyline where one of the main characters could take up cycling for his or her health and really get into it and enjoy it and it became socialised as a normal thing to all the people who watch such shows, millions of them.
Nice idea but I think we both know the story arc they would take 🙄
There’s some barmy stuff going on here:
Insurance for cycling. That should only ever be an option, not a necessity.
Cows are cool, just talk to a farmer and understand how to be around them.
Finally - Lycra is a choice we should all be allowed to make. If you don’t want to see a persons sausage bulge, stop looking at their shorts.
and the insurance thing also belies the level of understanding of our law makers as to why car drivers must have insurance, its not as they assume simply a tick item as part of gaining access to the roads.
To be fair, cycling "fashion" is hideous.
Interesting to hear the anger towards cyclists in the U.K. It's the same phenomenon in the U.S, in many states. On this side of the pond people are increasingly fat. This might have something to do with it. People are upset at people that exercise and get fit. Cyclists are an easy target because they share the road with road raged individuals, and these roads are increasingly crowded.
When I commuted on motorbikes drivers hated us too, they just hate someone passing them while they queued.
I cycled france n belgium...not really a problem...until I returned back to the UK...its a definite UK thing I'm afraid
it does seem that way at times!
That might be part of it, but also in the US if you block someone from driving normally in any way they get upset, because it's all about "me". A cyclist riding safely by taking up a full lane where there isn't room to pass will totally piss people off even though it's correct.
"People are upset at people that exercise and get fit." - or they just want to shout at people for no real reason?
When a motorist gives me grief I just wave and smile - pretend that it is a mate saying hello! Usually defuses the situation...
Sense of entitlement, the misguided belief car owners also own the road, jealousy, anger issues relating to other aspects of their lives. A whole range of factors come into play. Cyclists are just the easiest target at the end of it all.
If a driver can’t pass safely/give the appropriate amount of space they shouldn’t be on the road at all, simple as that (I both drive and ride)
One can only hope they have a lot more patience with the partner and kids back home…
It's just stupid that people think cyclist are dangerous to others yet distracted/drunk drivers don't
It's been my experience over the 40 years I've been riding on the road, A-holes are gonna A-hole. What I always tell people is, if confronted by an angry motorist, just wave. They are trying to get a reaction out of you and when it's not what they expect, it ruins their day.
Happened last weekend when doing a gravel race. We were on a rode transition when some A-hole, who was going the opposite direction was honking his horn and giving us the finger. Just wave to the guy. See ya A-Hole!
Smile and wave 🤣
The people who need to be told are the people won't listen anyway.
I live in Washington, DC. Right now there’s a political fight going on between the Mayor and cyclists about installing a bike lane down the most important boulevard in the city, Connecticut Avenue. While there are lots of great bike lanes in DC, one on Conn Ave would make if possible for cyclists to safely use the main artery in town. But motorists hate the idea, small businesses have the misconception that reduced parking slots will hurt their businesses, and the Mayor has been hearing from little old ladies who are afraid to step across a bike lane that runs between the curb and the roadway, where they step into their Ubers. I believe we Americans should be looking to European cities to figure out how to design bike lanes, parking, and sidewalks that allow all three traffic flows to coexist happily.
Cities to look at certainly include Copenhagen and why not have a look at this article on the GCN Website too > www.globalcyclingnetwork.com/lifestyle/interviews/how-to-half-car-usage-in-less-than-a-decade-a-tour-of-gent
The more I cycle and the more I got into it, the more I noticed complaining and drivers who hate us. And the more traffic violations I notice. It seems like things compound more and more especially with the addition of E-Bikes on top.
Do you think better cycling infrastructure would help the driver and cyclists relationship?
#captioncompetition: No sir, Tadej needs neither your spare tyre nor your inner tuba
Hence the rise in popularity of gravel. I spend as little time on roads as possible, just long enough to get me to a forest track or rail trail.
I think the ‘gig economy’ is giving cyclists a bad name. Most of the Deliveroo/Uber Eats delivery people are on e-bikes. If your income depends on how many deliveries you make and you get penalised if your delivery is late, sure you are going to ride through red lights and take a short cut, the wrong way up a one way street.
This is genuinely depressing. Can’t help feeling like the only way it will get better is ‘with time’ as today’s kids don’t seem bothered by cars and the world of work is slowly going remote.
I know I a lot of motorists feel like they’re being priced off the roads so they take their anger out everyone else. My main interests are bikes AND cars so I always find it confusing how everyone seems to hate each other
7:56 you are making great points in the "what do we do about it". Unfortunately, having high adrenalin during the rides makes it difficult to handle situations calmly.
The best advice is to get out and ride, power is in numbers.
You are 100% correct
We cycle out of the city and more on country roads with less cars. Still people honk and yell at our group. The self entitlement is unreal. Always thought that driving was a privilege and not a right. If you can wait 5 plus minutes in a drive thru for a coffee then you can wait 30 seconds to pass us. Oh yes....i also drive..
Lastly how would you feel if a family member of yours that cycled was put at risk by a driver?.
All rational examples made but sadly wasted on carsoles
MH-14 - Microphone Holder - 14. That means Park Tools has made at least 13 other versions of the Microphone Holder.
It took a fair few goes to get it right 🤣
@@gcn The first version MH/ZT 01 just Zip tied the microphone to a spanner, but was deemed to be a bodge! (Sorry Si).
As a bike courrier from a coop, in a small city in France, i can concur that MOST interactions with motorists are cordial and fine. There will alway be your average SUV driver overtaking at an unsafe distance on an intersection, but you learn to keep your cool. We don't have such aggressive policies coming our way, (yet) right now the latest debate is on the generalisation of mandatory technical checks for motorbikes...
Something specific to bike courrier tho is with the growth of Uber-like plateforms for food deliveries, most of those courrier are encouraged to ride carelessly, often cutting the way of cars and pedestrians. This is due to the platefom paying them near to nothing for every course and the alocated time for each course slowly but surely shrinking. And i feel some kind of resentment from pedestrians and some motorists when I'm riding with a food-grade backpack, like they are anticipating me doing something crazy. Strangely i don't have this when i ride my cargo bike.
I feel like if something like mandatory insurance for cyclists comes to France it will be anounced as a way to police the platefoms' courriers, as a lot of them are undocumented, and as said earlier some of them are causing trouble ; but it would be a shame !
Drivers have been sold a lie and they are trying to compensate. It's not their fault, they were told having a car would give them the freedom to travel. That freedom comes with the cost, of having to pay road tax, Insurance costs which keep increasing, petrol costs to keep the vehicle running, a yearly MOT to keep the vehicle is roadworthy, and if you were stupid enough to take out a new car on finance a monthly fee just for the sake of owning it. Cycling gives you the freedom car advertisers like to pretend their owners have with a fraction of the cost.
I’m sure every cyclist set off on a weekend ride in good spirits and rising above the close passes and negativity but after 3 close passes in on one ride patients wears thin
Have you ever had to turn back after a ride isn't feeling safe?
Absolutely
No I’ve always carried on. However there is one road which is notorious for close passes and it happens to be on the way home
Hate sells...especially with cycling as it one of those sports it's either loved or hated. Unfortunately most the UK hates it
With regards the new offence, I'm a retired roads policing officer and the first thing that came to my mind was the dangerous part of the offence.
The reason this came to mind is quite simple, drivers are trained to drive. They have lessons and then have to take a test, both practical and written and they are trained not to drive dangerously. Many then forget all that after they've passed their test, but regardless of that, they've had training.
I assume the objective test for Careless or Dangerous would follow the same or similar for driving. In driving the test is based on the careful and competent driver. Careless is driving which falls below that of a careful and competent driver and dangerous falls Far below. I assume that driver will be replaced by cyclist. But who then decides what a careful and competent cyclist is as there is no formal or mandated training!
How then can the objective test be applied to untrained cyclists? And at what age would the offence apply, 10 years old, the age of criminal responsibility?
I investigated road deaths and was an FLO on many cases. Its not simple to define dangerous for the purpose of prosecution through the courts even with trained drivers that should know what is and what isn't dangerous. Of course there is always the obvious cases where its open and shut, but again, who is going to,make the decision on danger?
In addition to all the above. West Midlands Police pioneered the close pass initiative. When challenged by the media and hate groups as to why they weren't targeting cyclists, their response was to say that to target the cyclist is to target the victim in 99% of injury collisions involving cycles.
This is a political with hunt led by Ian Duncan Smith and will in no way prevent the one or two deaths per year where cyclists were at fault.
I think the big thing to come out of this is that as cyclists, we need to be more careful about our actions. Do not do red lights, keep to correct side of the road etc, abide by the rules of the road and this won't affect you.
It's those of us who fail to do that who are antagonising people enough to push for laws such as this!
It's not just political.......
There's a huge rise in cyclists, especially delivery cyclists and loads are on modded ebikes, regardless of the mods most are carrying an abnormal sized weight on their back.
They jump on and off pavements whenever they feel like it.
Their brakes are not road worthy
Their tyres are not road worthy.
They go through red lights as folk are crossing
Most look like they've never been on a bike before starting doing deliveries.
I've not seen any other comments talking about this, why?
Why did GCN not talk about this?
Failing to talk about delievry cyclists, cyclists breaking rules and the total lack of responsibility in this video is partly why people don't respect cyclists.
@@elliotwilliams7421 which was what I said I'm my last couple of sentences!
And my comment is actually about the new proposed offences and not the hate.
Thanks for this. Great insight!
Poorly designed roads with insufficient space for cyclists and other road traffic is a major contributor.
The umbrage taken about someone getting in front and not having to wait their turn is probably part of it, too.
Bigger roads cannot continue to be the default answer when the problem is too many cars.
Biggest issue at least here in Australia is ebikes and escooters riding on footpaths at very fast speed knocking over the elderly and handicapped not on actual roads.
No. The biggest related issue is the behavior of motorists.
While cyclists don't kill or injure many people we should take a minute to think about our actions while on a bike. There have been safety campaigns for most other forms of transport so why have one for cyclists. Don't think about it as the percentage of deaths or injury from a collision as this is a small number. A death is still a death and if we can educate 1 bad cyclist then that should be a positive. This law will not affect responsible cyclists, but I do not agree with mandatory insurance/registration. Most cyclists are good, respect other road users and laws etc, but like any other sector of road user there is a small proportion that give the rest a bad name. Like car drivers should not feel privileged to be the sole users of the roads, we as cyclists should not feel privileged to ride in whatever manner we like even if it is dangerous just because we are cyclists.
Insurance in what way? Third party liability? Take a look at your home insurance documents - you've probably already got it. 🙂 Registration would be a mega-expensive waste of time. Registration numbers on cars don't seem to make any difference to the blasé way dickhead motorists break the law, so why would it make any difference to dickhead cyclists?
certainly not true in Doncaster .... most cyclists use the pavement. Including cycles with motors and now as a result of Police negligence, some proper petrol powered motorbikes too.
This is at least 3 issues. The motorbike issue is nothing to do with cyclists and should be looked at by the police. Cyclists on the pavements. Is it shared use or not? Either way this is where pedestrians become the vulnerable users and cyclists should alter their cycling accordingly. This is where the education part comes in then enforce it if need be. Lastly are the cyclists using the pavements because the roads in Doncaster are so unsafe that they feel they need to ride on the pavement. This is where better infrastructure is then needed.
@@strawhorn1 No I mean, pavement cycling is ubiquitous on pedestrian only footpaths. beside roads. If I challenge any of them, and I do .... its usually completely combative bad language followed by the threat of of physical harm before they cycle off - After Doncaster attracted the Tour de Yorkshire finish for two years, they marked a cycle lane beside a very broad fairly lightly trafficked road (where my family lives) and virtually no one used it, so now they have gone for the shared pavement approach ... on the rare occasions a pavement cyclist doesn't threaten violence they cite the bad drivers and how dangerous the roads are to cycle on, but they aren't, I only cycle on the roads and its fine and quite safe. We just have a molly-coddled generation and their parents who think everything is dangerous, the pathetic toy-town cycle paths that share the surface with the pedestrians, which I hardly ever use, because I prefer the speed on the road and the lack of give way junctions (as do I'm sure most people on this forum) ... No one told pavement cyclists off and 'give 'em an inch and they take a mile' they basically don't adhere to the law. But they are criminals and should be dealt with .... With e-bikes I'm afraid youths see no dividing line between cycles and motorbikes, so if the Police take no action against e-bikes they know they won't against petrol motorbikes ........ and btw I see proper road cyclists in lycra and helmets using shared walkways travelling FAR too fast for safety and (mainly mountain bikers) doing the same on pedestrian only pavements, they know no better. Someone is going to get hurt and more importantly loads and loads of pedestrians HATE cyclists on pavements and get PISSED OFF by them. as they do by anyone who doesn't give a damn for the law like drug-dealers and tax-cheats, because the broad swathe of British people abide by laws, we're just like that.
@@MrVorpalsword I agree. We shouldn't make pedestrians feel in danger and vulnerable on pavements any more than vehicles shouldn't make cyclists feel this way about riding on the roads. The only exception to this is where it is a child cycling on a pavement(not with an ebike) I would prefer them on the pavement until they are in full control and confident on a bike before going onto the road. Like you I prefer cycling on the road, I find shared paths/cycle paths littered with small stones, glass etc as they are never cleaned.
There's a petition on our county website to ban cyclists from a stretch of road as the limit is 60mph and said to be dangerous for cyclists, there is a parallel cinder path...not fit for road cycle tyres or speeds. The petition has a single signee. My cyclist head says the obvious solution is to drop the speed limit and look to get more people on their bikes. My motorist head says happy to drive slow for a cyclist
8:15 You're right to say we shouldn't be 'fighting' drivers but we should sure as hell be fighting the media and politicians who stir up this rubbish. It's a culture war plain and simple, born of a lack of any decent ideas, but this will have an effect on driver attitudes and put more cyclists at risk. It needs stamping out now and if that means calling out friends and colleagues on their choice of media then so be it.
I mean whoever put together that ridiculous '52mph' story (a) clearly hasn't got the common sense of a whelk and (b) doesn't deserve to be called a journalist...
Maybe its the warmer weather and people driving with their windows open, but it feels like every van and suv driver has shouted at me this past month. Or maybe they all have tourettes. I'm torn between cycling and living longer in this miserable country.
Maybe you are a problem? Maybe you shouldn't be on the road
@@elliotwilliams7421 maybe you don't even cycle?
A lot of political posturing here that is aimed to appeal those on the fringe of sanity. The change in the law to allow courts same sentencing guidelines as causing death by dangerous use of a car/motorbike is sensible. The rarity of the incidents doesn’t diminish the severity when it happens. We need to make sure we don’t give others the ammunition to shoot us down and ride within the rules. Also we need to speak up with those that actually make the rules, not get into situations with other road users.
On the face of it, it might be sensible, but with time of courts, ministers, judges etc being limited, there are far better things they could be doing.
Not only that, in the newspaper piece, there was a large photo of and accompanying copy about Charlie Alliston, who unfortunately hit Kim Briggs leading to her death. Not only are they having to hark back to an 8 year old incident, but Alliston was identified, charged, convicted and sentenced (to longer than most drivers get for killing a pedestrian) all under the current guidelines and lack of numbers plates etc.
I think it’s known a self-own.
i'm from germany and living there too. I am an on off cylclist myself, but i apply all* road rules when i am riding on the road (except speed limits, if exceedable). But what ashames me the most is, when people ride their bike really unsafe and ignore all traffic rules in existence! I can understand motorists who are angry because of those few black sheeps! This applies to people just riding a simple bike to get from A to B, to cyclist tryharding everything. Even I am angry at those people being reckless and ride like they own the entire world.
I totally agree with Si, that leading by example is the best thing i can do.
I think some of this is due to the rise of electric bikes or hybrid. This bikes are fast and the people riding them don’t know the rules of the road. There are other reasons to include cyclists that act entitled to the road. Unfortunately there are multiple reason. We as cyclists need to set the example of being a better road user then vehicle drivers.
There are just a lot of angry people about. Welcome to the world. I agree with Si, follow rules, be courteous and friendly, and don’t get overly worried and anxious.
well said!
Noonea getting angry at jaywalking pedestrians. Noonea getting angry at pedestrians that have dedicated space allocated to them on every street. Noonea getting a get when pedestrians injure and kill people.
Why?
Because everyone is a pedestrian.
Breaking laws does r make you unsafe or a menace. Being part of a minority group does open you up to ridicule and attack
Speed is seen as anti-social. Now that cars have been restricted to 20 mph cyclists exceeding this amount are now the "enemy".
As a cyclist I've been honked at by impatient drivers while going over the speed limit. There's no winning.
When they point this out I suggest that they try and maintain 20 mph on a manual bike for 30 mins. Easy win as usually they couldn't manage 10 mph for 15 mins but know all about cycling 🙄
My bike was hit by an 18 year old in a corvette going at 100+ mph. Fortunately, bike was in the back seat area of my truck which was totaled - bike in perfect condition, drivers too. I notice a homicidal idiot on the road on every bike ride, and drive these days..... Covid has turned many drivers into a Mad Max universe character that won't share the road with cyclists, pedestrians, animals, or other motorists...or maybe its always been that way
I'm a cyclist in the Netherlands. We have really good cycling infrastructure. There are still roads without a cyclepath, or cyclepaths that crosses with the motorist roads. I never experienced any form of road rage from motorists. They can see that I pay attention to the road, and it's users. On the other hand, it's just the other cycle path users that are not so nice.
Sounds like there is lots of respect from both sides 🙌That's great!
I am an Australian now retired and resident in Switzerland, admittedly a rural area, and it is an incredibly different attitude.
Motorists give us plenty of room, on a narrow road cars coming the other way pull over and stop and give us a smile and wave as we pass. In Australia some motorists pass deliberately close and would happily run you off the road rather than slow down.
So true, cycling touring in France years ago I cringed the first time someone beeped at me coming from Australia but they were actually being friendly and yelled out encouragement. Still remember that - I was like what just happened - it's another world in Europe ;) They didn't even throw a beer bottle at me (which happened one day cycling on a bike to path to work in Brisbane - lucky helmets are mandatory in Aus).
Great to hear you've found somewhere that is giving you more respect on the road! What do you think it is about Switzerland that means people look out for cyclists?
@@gcn In Australia many motorists believe that cyclists have no right to use the road (“don’t pay road tax”) and so refuse to slow down or give way to them - pass too close or cut them off - and in some cases deliberately try to intimidate them.
That attitude doesn’t seem to exist in mainland Europe, cyclists are accepted.
In Switzerland people are just more friendly and courteous - I notice the difference driving as much as cycling and generally in any interactions with locals.
If i'm on the mtb with baggies and a rucksack motorists love me, but when i'm on the road bikes in lycra i can feel the hatred & distain from motorists, you can smell it even.
how odd!? Is it the lycra? or the drop handlebars?
True the weekend lycra warriors who drive BMWs to work are such an arrogant pain in all their convayences.
Cycling to work in my commuting gear: courteous drivers
Cycling in lycra: close passes galore
I think part of it is down to perception of cycling skill. The lycra clad cyclist is presumed to be more confident on the road so drivers will be less cautious when passing... Or they just hate us. Not sure which it is.
At a guess it could be caused by the herd of middle aged lycra clad men, taking up the whole road while acting like said road is closed for bike racing and only they have the right of way.. They are a damn pain around here!
Does it smell like a turd wrapped up in a Range Rover?
I'm a commuter cyclist in Lancaster County Pennsylvania. The presents of horse, and buggy is a more hot issue around here. Also, jealousy is a big issue. The fact that traffic jams are avoided on an uninsured vehicle, that burns no fuel. Becomes a hot topic.
Human beings act the same way no matter their circumstances. People will walk around a city and complain about cars, as they walk back to their cars only to complain about the pedestrians. And, we have to admit that just like every group there are a lot of cyclist that are part of the problem. But, to categorize everyone on two wheels as the same is ridiculous. Commuters, Mountain Bikers, Roadies, and BMXers all have different needs and circumstances. You'll never convince a person who doesn't think about others to start no matter what rules you put in place.
Humans are terrible. Replace us all with robots who are nice and friendly 24/7 😉