Very well put together presentation. As a DO student, you hit everything perfectly, especially when talking about rotation sites and how not everyone is meant to be a doctor.
I dont think even osteopaths argue with the lack of scientifically tested evidence for a lot of the stuff we have to learn in DO programs. I mean...a lot of it, I'm not even sure you you would test lol. The stuff like muscle energy, or HVLA would be more easily tested than other treatment modality. And I would argue most DO students just see learning all the OMT as the DO tax. Learning all the chapmans points (magic voodoo buttons) for COMLEX is frustrating, but I am pretty sure most students drop them.
It's not even bold. It's supposed to be how science works. For some reason DO programs like to stick the heads in the sand when students and outsiders being it up though...
I can't imagine this was a very popular presentation hahaha but I think you made some excellent points. I would love to hear some responses or thoughts from some of the DO deans--we all have our blind spots, and the way they think about things could be very different in some cases but I'm not a DO so I don't have the necessary background. Regardless, I think this was a great presentation that seems to very accurately not only diagnose some of the potential issues or challenges facing DO schools but also suggest some potentially difficult but necessary recommendations. Thank you for sharing it with us!
It was not a very popular presentation. But honestly, that’s all the more credit to Dr. Robert Cain, AACOM’s president, for not only having the courage to ask someone outside the fold to give a talk, but also for having the integrity to let that person speak freely. He didn’t demand to see my slides ahead of time or give me any rules about what I could or couldn’t say. I think he got some grief for giving me a platform, though.
If AI is capable of replacing physicians, I question its capacity to replace many other professions. I also ask patients I encounter on rotations about their thoughts on the future and predictions of AI in the workplace. I typically ask while I am trying to stall and make some small talk. They frequently respond with hesitancy and skepticism. Many prefer the patient doctor interaction and this response is especially common among primary care services. However, I do hear positive feedback from patients who are not currently receiving care and yet to develop a report with a PCP. Few answer positively and with optimism because they say that their prior healthcare experiences were “robotic” or their concerns were not heard and addressed appropriately. Almost as if they were being moved through an assembly line and that they provider didn’t perform a physical examination and that AI could produce comparable results.
I've been in EMS a long time, and I tell those new to the field that working in a rural setting is likely more rewarding as you mature, but at the beginning you need that big city volume of calls to even sort out what you're doing. You need repetition, 10s of thousands of calls. I'm working on my return to medical school and I don't figure it's any different at the MD level as it is with the EMT-B/A/P levels. It's getting tough everywhere. You're going to have to be the best at w/e you do to get your spot.
I had a 511 and 4.0 GPA and only got into top osteopathic programs, one with a MCAT average of 510 and the other 508. As a Californian, I think those who matriculate to DO programs from CA have higher scores on average.
I got a couple of positive messages privately afterward… but I recall the overall reception as being chilly and the comments/questions being very defensive.
What an excellent presentation and one not encouraging for hopeful medical students to choose the DO route. Without question, USA MD programs are superior to USA DO, which you have clearly proven. The bigger question now is Caribbean MD a better option than USA DO?
Honestly a Caribbean md from Ross or sgu is going to get you to the same places as a DO degree will. With similar stats ofc. In fact you’ll find more foreign medical grads in fields like neurosurgery plastics etc than you’ll see DOs. Everyone will tell you DO is better and safer but none of them have actually looked into this data. They’re speaking out of thin air.
@@JB23669 it CAN get you the same places, but its much riskier in the caribbean. And if you're a superstar that has the capability to beat out everyone and match Neurosurgery, then you would probably be at a USMD school. The IMGs who match highly competitive specialities are superstars from foreign countries who want the money American doctors make, not American students who couldn't get accepted into an MD school
One can not research Osteopathic PRINCIPALS (not Techniques) the same way you research Allopathic treatments. If you do, then half the time the treatment will work and the other half of the time it will not.
@@sheriffofsodium When a research project is put together it is determined which symptom is to be treated. Then, it is determined which "Technique" will be utilized. This is Allopathic. Not Osteopathic. In the philosophy of Osteopathy almost any symptom can be caused by almost any dysfunction. If you wanted to measure the result of an Osteopathic treatment. Then you would have to allow the practitioner to determine where the dysfunction existed and how it was to be treated. Every human being is different. Every cause may elicit an individual symptom. Love your presentation by the way. I bet you caused some dysfunctions.
Just to gild the lily. Most importantly the sequence in which the practitioner to decides to treat the dysfunctions, they diagnosed while screening, will vary with each patient. Ask the following question. How important is the sequence of actions in most, if not all, procedures. Example, If I put the toothpaste on the toothbrush after I brush my teeth. How effective is the procedure.
Gun control has around that favorability, im pretty sure access to safe abortion at least up until 15 weeks. I think even some type of Medicare for all or govt funded medical access. There is actually a lot of agreement for a lot of issues, it just seems a lot more divided than it is.
You have not worked in the field obviously. The end both get too is the same it's md training + osteopathic principles. That's it. In the real world nobody sees a difference.
In this video, Dr. Carmody talks about the flaws within the DO medical schooling system. This has nothing to do with the content of education provided by these schools. All these schools are World Directory of Medical Schools registered medical schools that deliver a full medical and surgical education. There are many flawed “MD educationing systems” around the world that we consider equivalent to an MD via ECFMG. So no, the one thing Dr. Carmody will never question is the education of DOs as compared to MDs. Many MD schools may have a well established system, but DO=MD in knowledge and practice. You can have an opinion about it, but it won’t change the facts or laws.
Very well put together presentation. As a DO student, you hit everything perfectly, especially when talking about rotation sites and how not everyone is meant to be a doctor.
You brought up the lack of research on Osteopathic treatment methods!!!! That was bold!!!!
I dont think even osteopaths argue with the lack of scientifically tested evidence for a lot of the stuff we have to learn in DO programs. I mean...a lot of it, I'm not even sure you you would test lol. The stuff like muscle energy, or HVLA would be more easily tested than other treatment modality. And I would argue most DO students just see learning all the OMT as the DO tax. Learning all the chapmans points (magic voodoo buttons) for COMLEX is frustrating, but I am pretty sure most students drop them.
It's not even bold. It's supposed to be how science works. For some reason DO programs like to stick the heads in the sand when students and outsiders being it up though...
The second you learn about cranial omt that’s when you’ll question yourself like wtf am I even actually in medical school?? Is this real?
I very much enjoyed this talk, as I usually do. It would be fascinating to have someone do the same sort of thing from the MD side
I’d be happy to do it… AAMC, you interested?
Another banger that was expected 🤑🥱🥱🥱🥱🥱🥱🥱🥱
I can't imagine this was a very popular presentation hahaha but I think you made some excellent points. I would love to hear some responses or thoughts from some of the DO deans--we all have our blind spots, and the way they think about things could be very different in some cases but I'm not a DO so I don't have the necessary background. Regardless, I think this was a great presentation that seems to very accurately not only diagnose some of the potential issues or challenges facing DO schools but also suggest some potentially difficult but necessary recommendations. Thank you for sharing it with us!
It was not a very popular presentation. But honestly, that’s all the more credit to Dr. Robert Cain, AACOM’s president, for not only having the courage to ask someone outside the fold to give a talk, but also for having the integrity to let that person speak freely. He didn’t demand to see my slides ahead of time or give me any rules about what I could or couldn’t say. I think he got some grief for giving me a platform, though.
@@sheriffofsodiumI hope my school was present. I feel like they could’ve learned a lot from this talk. We are just west of you ;)
Sir!!!! Why do you have audiobook voice?!?!?
Totally agree.
If AI is capable of replacing physicians, I question its capacity to replace many other professions. I also ask patients I encounter on rotations about their thoughts on the future and predictions of AI in the workplace. I typically ask while I am trying to stall and make some small talk. They frequently respond with hesitancy and skepticism. Many prefer the patient doctor interaction and this response is especially common among primary care services. However, I do hear positive feedback from patients who are not currently receiving care and yet to develop a report with a PCP. Few answer positively and with optimism because they say that their prior healthcare experiences were “robotic” or their concerns were not heard and addressed appropriately. Almost as if they were being moved through an assembly line and that they provider didn’t perform a physical examination and that AI could produce comparable results.
I've been in EMS a long time, and I tell those new to the field that working in a rural setting is likely more rewarding as you mature, but at the beginning you need that big city volume of calls to even sort out what you're doing. You need repetition, 10s of thousands of calls. I'm working on my return to medical school and I don't figure it's any different at the MD level as it is with the EMT-B/A/P levels. It's getting tough everywhere. You're going to have to be the best at w/e you do to get your spot.
Great points. Thank you.
I had a 511 and 4.0 GPA and only got into top osteopathic programs, one with a MCAT average of 510 and the other 508. As a Californian, I think those who matriculate to DO programs from CA have higher scores on average.
California is a net exporter of medical students (DO and MD) - so you’re right, it can be a tough nut to crack for admissions.
A beautiful presentation ! How was the reaction of the deans ? Is in your opinion place for a fusion between the two diplomas ?
Cheers
I got a couple of positive messages privately afterward… but I recall the overall reception as being chilly and the comments/questions being very defensive.
Is there a transcript of this?
I didn’t make one - I just spoke from my notes for the live presentation and this recording.
My do school is putting a research lab on campus.
What an excellent presentation and one not encouraging for hopeful medical students to choose the DO route. Without question, USA MD programs are superior to USA DO, which you have clearly proven. The bigger question now is Caribbean MD a better option than USA DO?
Not if you want to match. International medical graduates have a much harder time securing spots relative to American grads, MD and DO.
I’m curious, what is your opinion on Puerto Rico US MD medical schools compared to US the old medical schools?
Honestly a Caribbean md from Ross or sgu is going to get you to the same places as a DO degree will. With similar stats ofc. In fact you’ll find more foreign medical grads in fields like neurosurgery plastics etc than you’ll see DOs. Everyone will tell you DO is better and safer but none of them have actually looked into this data. They’re speaking out of thin air.
@@JB23669 it CAN get you the same places, but its much riskier in the caribbean. And if you're a superstar that has the capability to beat out everyone and match Neurosurgery, then you would probably be at a USMD school. The IMGs who match highly competitive specialities are superstars from foreign countries who want the money American doctors make, not American students who couldn't get accepted into an MD school
One can not research Osteopathic PRINCIPALS (not Techniques) the same way you research Allopathic treatments. If you do, then half the time the treatment will work and the other half of the time it will not.
I’m honestly interested to hear more. Could you explain why, or how osteopathic principles ought to be studied?
@@sheriffofsodium When a research project is put together it is determined which symptom is to be treated. Then, it is determined which "Technique" will be utilized. This is Allopathic. Not Osteopathic. In the philosophy of Osteopathy almost any symptom can be caused by almost any dysfunction. If you wanted to measure the result of an Osteopathic treatment. Then you would have to allow the practitioner to determine where the dysfunction existed and how it was to be treated. Every human being is different. Every cause may elicit an individual symptom. Love your presentation by the way. I bet you caused some dysfunctions.
Just to gild the lily. Most importantly the sequence in which the practitioner to decides to treat the dysfunctions, they diagnosed while screening, will vary with each patient. Ask the following question. How important is the sequence of actions in most, if not all, procedures. Example, If I put the toothpaste on the toothbrush after I brush my teeth. How effective is the procedure.
Gun control has around that favorability, im pretty sure access to safe abortion at least up until 15 weeks. I think even some type of Medicare for all or govt funded medical access. There is actually a lot of agreement for a lot of issues, it just seems a lot more divided than it is.
I just don't know how we can reasonably consider an osteopathic education equivalent to an MD- they seem very different....
You have not worked in the field obviously. The end both get too is the same it's md training + osteopathic principles. That's it. In the real world nobody sees a difference.
Stupid take , they all train in ACGME residency programs
In this video, Dr. Carmody talks about the flaws within the DO medical schooling system. This has nothing to do with the content of education provided by these schools. All these schools are World Directory of Medical Schools registered medical schools that deliver a full medical and surgical education. There are many flawed “MD educationing systems” around the world that we consider equivalent to an MD via ECFMG. So no, the one thing Dr. Carmody will never question is the education of DOs as compared to MDs. Many MD schools may have a well established system, but DO=MD in knowledge and practice. You can have an opinion about it, but it won’t change the facts or laws.
@@dr.pakalupapito6015 Then what's with the DO schools and the tiny hospitals for core rotations? Is this a problem at US MD schools nowadays, too?
@@alameriki123 Absolutely. But med school training seems different, although maybe it's irrelevant?
You have no idea what you are talking about. You are living in the 1980s
MD med school reject