Excellent job Mike! I hope you can sell them on a 3-way mixing valve like the others have mentioned. What a huge improvement it would be. Have a nice weekend.
Our facility used a liquid-to-liquid heat exchanger so only softened treated water circulated through the boiler. The chlorinated pool water was circulated through ABS pipes. Even the circulators on the chlorine side were stainless and ABS materials only. This arrangement also allowed us to use the main heating boilers to heat the pool when in season.
Man it has been 15/20 years since I've had to sweat anything over an inch That big stuff takes real talent when I did it we use doxy acetylene the big tanks and a lot of them on that job
I have a customer with one of those units the way we felt with the scale was we used or we flushed heater with muriatic acid and we circulated acid for 5-6 hours and scale was gone a little miracle thanks to chemistry
yep, they'll be seized in place and break the stem off in top of the gate, which will likely get stuck in place or shut if it's closed. but ball valves are never a great idea for flow controlling and never were. at least the gate valves can be taken apart and serviced to free up/clean
I know your not going to like this Mike... But on them flanges I use red or black rvt silicone on the automotive grade. Never had a leak. Just a fine skim with your finger across the gasket.
Everybody who can braze or solder can do the job.Most important is to identify the reason that causes the problem.Well done Mike,hope you fixed that flange😂
here in uk we call that bumping on the boiler, like your kettle pops when boiling, we know cavitation on propellers or centrifugal pumps where are bubbles gett stuck on the rotor. remember buying some 1.75 inch fittings 20 years ago and they were £15 each then!
Mike am i wrong in thinking the black handle valve should have been under the tee that way you can keep the bypass flow up and throttle the heater back
lol, bigger torch tip or two torches! (sometimes you use what you have). had to use two or three mapp gas torches at once in the past, it's what we had!
On one hand it’s nice to see you solder, on the other hand it would have been neat to see some 2.5” propress xl in action. I’m guessing you don’t have the Propress XL-C ring kit?
Small head on that torch for 2 in. Surprised you didnt propress it. I was wondering how you figured out the valves were no full port but it was Lockinvar that figured it out.
Wow. 2 1/2 inch is impressive. Good work, love the video as always! Is a gate valve more dependable in this application or this is what plumbing supply had in that size?
Outdoor pool with the city I work for has one of these heaters, but it’s crusty asfuuuuuck and lets just say only thing holding it together is hopes and dreams
@PipeDoctor Phila commercial plumber for 25 years, so many heated chemicals, personally I would have went with L from my experience. Enjoy your channel.
Happy Hanukkah Is there any suggestion that the customer needs to have the system flushed out with acid to remove the calcium? The valve wouldn’t close because of the buildup of calcium what about the heat exchanger isn’t it just as clogged?
them putting pipe dope on the unions, are exactly why it came apart for you! if not it would have been seized with corrosion. I generally put dope on every thread type in plumbing that I touch, just don't put it where it shouldn't be on seat faces and don't glob it all inside the fittings/system.
No Sharkbites, Pex or other crap on commercial jobs ? Mikey, where is cavitation occurring? Why is is happening? I am only familiar with the concept in the case of ultrasonic cleaners... collapsing bubble (implosion). White board and marker class, back at the shop! This is the stuff that fascinates me ! Time to order the 2.5" Press ?
So much buildup that it might even provide some insulation, just hoping that the heat exchanger doesn't get easily clogged. Apparently this unit should have 89% efficiency so it's already closer to condensing
Copper in 54mm costs a bit, 54mm (54x2mm=DN 50mm, newer stuff is 54x1,2mm= DN 51,6m ) is 2" and I never had to deal with the next size which is 68mm I believe. The BTU value equals 586 kW, a diesel electric locomotive has more thermal loss. Sweating (soldering with Sn97Cu3) is easier with a bigger flame. No professional over here sweats anymore as standart, they will charge the customer for pressfittings and if its a single application the invoice will contain the adquisition cost of the press tools. I did sweat them too as a cost effective option. Thw whole plumbing in the US looks like straight from the 1960's or 70's here. Valves with packing nuts: no change to buy them new. The cast iron sewer pipes in NYC (think usage ended in 1950 or so) Threads in waste water pipes are unknown here. Ah respecting the maximum flow speeds 150 kW heater at delta T =20K (or C) already has a 2" piping. So even concious of the quadratic increase with diameter that 2,5 " at 586 kW and even with a delta of 30 K is already worth looking into it in terms of flow speed, pump losses and erosion. PVC flanges in a heat application, you gotta be kidding ;-)
@PipeDoctor i figured it was that or having to do with the fact ball valves are really for on/ off situations they aren't designed to throttle flow which i would assume is what caused some of if not all of the cavitation.
The joints on the 2 1/2 inch copper were not soldered completely that you took apart. Well enough not to leak though. Did you use type M ? I think I saw red lettering. Why not use type L ???/
@@PipeDoctor Copper has gone out of site. Plumbing materials have gone up on everything. I am glad to be at this end of my career. I am 73 and still working . I bought 3" DWV for a job last year and almost died when I got the invoice.
I know guys that put pipe dope on the union. They say so it doesn't leak. I tell them if they sit that union right and make sure the mating surface in good, you don't need pipe dope or Teflon. Lol
I know you were doing what customer wanted, but a balancing valve should have been installed on outlet so you could actually measure flow, no guessing. Temperature rise matters only if they are firing properly at 100%. I get the feeling these are not being maintained by someone whom understands how their combustion works, could see white gasket material around burner panels.
Hello dr henry p davis lll of the first baptist of highland park. You checking on the blue collar community again, who Mikey, he could talk John the Baptist in putting a heated pool too. God bless you.
Micheal showing the old soldering skills with a nice 2-1/2” commercial boiler piping. Does any local supply house rent the jaw set for 2-1/2 - 4? Nice change of pace with this video 👏👏👏
That heater is shot . All the calcium build up your losing heat transfer. That system should be on a heat exchanger Always anti seize the flange gaskets Those copper/brass unions suck they like to leak from time to time i will dope the sealing surface never the threads
Hey Mike Diack, of Mikey Pipes Plumbing not easy being cheesy. I like your podcast/social media. Again where is the primer mixing valve and anti- scalding device. And no way too descale boilers on a bi yearly basic. Sound like there might be a hole in secordary heat exchanger and pool water mixing with boiler water causing violent thermal shock in piping system. Do you said, Lockinar or Jack Dainel old number seven again.lol. Love you buddy, you be safe out there.
Respect for the Trades in keeping our worlds up and running.
I trust Mikey Pipes with my home repairs - the guy knows his stuff!
Ty
Pipe Doctor is the real deal. On time, efficient, and courteous!
Thanks
Mikey Pipes loves handling the big pipe
He doesn't have the biggest torch, but he got the job done!
A+ service, every single time. Can’t recommend you enough!
Thanks
Can’t believe how much I’ve learned just by watching your videos!
I'm glad you're learning something!
Johnny Sunshine puts pipe dope on fittings as a lubricant/anti seize.
Great Job, Mike. Enjoyed seeing you Working in a Commercial Setting. 👍🙏
Glad you enjoyed it!
Excellent job Mike! I hope you can sell them on a 3-way mixing valve like the others have mentioned. What a huge improvement it would be. Have a nice weekend.
I didn't know you did work like this. This is what I do for a living bigger stuff.
Our facility used a liquid-to-liquid heat exchanger so only softened treated water circulated through the boiler. The chlorinated pool water was circulated through ABS pipes. Even the circulators on the chlorine side were stainless and ABS materials only. This arrangement also allowed us to use the main heating boilers to heat the pool when in season.
Mikey Im a electrician by trade but I know a pipe sweating Guru when I see one. Nice work my friend 👍
🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲
Who’s that??? :)
Man it has been 15/20 years since I've had to sweat anything over an inch
That big stuff takes real talent when I did it we use doxy acetylene the big tanks and a lot of them on that job
I have a customer with one of those units the way we felt with the scale was we used or we flushed heater with muriatic acid and we circulated acid for 5-6 hours and scale was gone a little miracle thanks to chemistry
Does all the plumbing get isolated, and the devices removed and plugged... before the flushroo ?
Wont the calcium clog the gate valve track in short order
yep, they'll be seized in place and break the stem off in top of the gate, which will likely get stuck in place or shut if it's closed.
but ball valves are never a great idea for flow controlling and never were. at least the gate valves can be taken apart and serviced to free up/clean
Hey Mikey Pipes . I supplied those Lochinvars heaters to the Plumbing Contractor when I worked for Ferguson . Nice soldering buddy .
Only 1 million btu? Ok, I better take two!
Hope you get the re-do / maint there. Good thinking closing the Sch 80 valve -- increase the dwell time of the hx.
Is the calcium buildup on the heat exchanger causing most of the heat loss on the outlet?
Maybe
Merry Christmas 🎄🎄 Mike and to your family
Merry Christmas!
I know your not going to like this Mike... But on them flanges I use red or black rvt silicone on the automotive grade. Never had a leak. Just a fine skim with your finger across the gasket.
Everybody who can braze or solder can do the job.Most important is to identify the reason that causes the problem.Well done Mike,hope you fixed that flange😂
👍
here in uk we call that bumping on the boiler, like your kettle pops when boiling, we know cavitation on propellers or centrifugal pumps where are bubbles gett stuck on the rotor. remember buying some 1.75 inch fittings 20 years ago and they were £15 each then!
Wow
I love the industrial size stuff!
very suprised you managed to solder that with such small torch mike! arse clenching moment had to pour another grey goose!
Cheers 🥂
i,m guessing that was A-14 tip in acetelene turbo..
Mike am i wrong in thinking the black handle valve should have been under the tee that way you can keep the bypass flow up and throttle the heater back
Looks like you’ve got an annuity set up with all the work that needs to be done going forward
why not pre tin the 2-1/2” to ensure good solder coverage?
Pre-Tin, like when fixing an old timey radio or tv ?
Love that paint!
Me too
Painting copper should be illegal!
lol, bigger torch tip or two torches! (sometimes you use what you have). had to use two or three mapp gas torches at once in the past, it's what we had!
Awesome diagnosis and repair Mikey! Love both your channels.
Appreciate you watching both!
How are you guys not giving the man a thumbs up. Awesome content. Always feeding us
He didn't break out the 55 gal drum of CLR to clean those pipes.
Why different color valve handles?
Quality work every time 💯
You already know
why open the bypass?
On one hand it’s nice to see you solder, on the other hand it would have been neat to see some 2.5” propress xl in action. I’m guessing you don’t have the Propress XL-C ring kit?
You’re right, it would have been a sight to see!
Small head on that torch for 2 in. Surprised you didnt propress it. I was wondering how you figured out the valves were no full port but it was Lockinvar that figured it out.
Wow. 2 1/2 inch is impressive. Good work, love the video as always! Is a gate valve more dependable in this application or this is what plumbing supply had in that size?
The gate valve was recommended by Lochinvar
Why did you use a gate valve and not another ball valve?
Outdoor pool with the city I work for has one of these heaters, but it’s crusty asfuuuuuck and lets just say only thing holding it together is hopes and dreams
They could use some commercial water softeners
So we did not fix it, or we did?
M tubing on pool application?
Why isn't the horizontal gate upside down?
Very observant. Good for you. For you know the differences between L, K & M copper tubing and their purposes along with pressure rating?
@PipeDoctor Phila commercial plumber for 25 years, so many heated chemicals, personally I would have went with L from my experience. Enjoy your channel.
What no pro press
Wow. Beyond pro press on this?
For me, yes!
No can do 4”
Does unit need descalled?
Hey Mikey, is there any way to get rid of that calcium hardness buildup other than replacing the pipes?
Rydlyme Biodegradable Descaler
Happy Hanukkah
Is there any suggestion that the customer needs to have the system flushed out with acid to remove the calcium?
The valve wouldn’t close because of the buildup of calcium what about the heat exchanger isn’t it just as clogged?
Did I miss the flux stage of the 2-1/2" joints ?
The flange was still leaking!
them putting pipe dope on the unions, are exactly why it came apart for you! if not it would have been seized with corrosion.
I generally put dope on every thread type in plumbing that I touch, just don't put it where it shouldn't be on seat faces and don't glob it all inside the fittings/system.
Do you know what a torch is? I have never seen you use one
I obviously know what a torch is silly
@PipeDoctor I have never seen a guy that's so in love with himself pipes
Could they be descaled?
With ACID. yeah. 👍
@@PipeDoctor Rydlyme Biodegradable Descaler, non-corrosive, food grade
No Sharkbites, Pex or other crap on commercial jobs ?
Mikey, where is cavitation occurring? Why is is happening? I am only familiar with the concept in the case of ultrasonic cleaners... collapsing bubble (implosion). White board and marker class, back at the shop! This is the stuff that fascinates me !
Time to order the 2.5" Press ?
the pipe fitters at work pre solder / coat larger copper pipes when fitting over 2 in ..I'm not a fitter so i don't know why
again if there is no secordary heat exchanger, it needs one? indirect heating system.
It’s not uncommon for these boilers to not have a secondary heat exchanger.
Not bad for a old man
Wh gate valves vs ball valves
Seen them do tinning,like before connecting pipe ,think it was a nickel solder.
So much buildup that it might even provide some insulation, just hoping that the heat exchanger doesn't get easily clogged. Apparently this unit should have 89% efficiency so it's already closer to condensing
The buildup is from the water treatment chemical/inhibitor added to the loop, protects the metal from corrosion.
What song does the band saw play?
Cry Me A River? It's a municipal building. Look up hill and you will find the drain at the top.....
Gonna need some bigger press jaws next time, although those press fittings are the price of a used car once you get to that size
Yep, those big press fittings aren’t cheap!
could sell them 3 way diverting valve to save this boiler from low return temps
I know. They didn’t want to install it.
Copper in 54mm costs a bit, 54mm (54x2mm=DN 50mm, newer stuff is 54x1,2mm= DN 51,6m ) is 2" and I never had to deal with the next size which is 68mm I believe. The BTU value equals 586 kW, a diesel electric locomotive has more thermal loss. Sweating (soldering with Sn97Cu3) is easier with a bigger flame. No professional over here sweats anymore as standart, they will charge the customer for pressfittings and if its a single application the invoice will contain the adquisition cost of the press tools. I did sweat them too as a cost effective option. Thw whole plumbing in the US looks like straight from the 1960's or 70's here. Valves with packing nuts: no change to buy them new. The cast iron sewer pipes in NYC (think usage ended in 1950 or so) Threads in waste water pipes are unknown here. Ah respecting the maximum flow speeds 150 kW heater at delta T =20K (or C) already has a 2" piping. So even concious of the quadratic increase with diameter that 2,5 " at 586 kW and even with a delta of 30 K is already worth looking into it in terms of flow speed, pump losses and erosion. PVC flanges in a heat application, you gotta be kidding ;-)
Thanks for sharing
Water tested to an actual water testing laboratory
Results
Proven
With a suggestion for the actual
Correction
Make the trades great again mp
Take it to another level Mike
You have the capability to spend the knowledge...
Make the trades great again
Spread....
Why gate valves vs ball valves again?
Mfg suggested to use gate
@PipeDoctor i figured it was that or having to do with the fact ball valves are really for on/ off situations they aren't designed to throttle flow which i would assume is what caused some of if not all of the cavitation.
Serviceable. @@PipeDoctor
Those boilers need a LTV 3 way valve to maintain minimum of 140* return temperature to keep from condesning.
Yeah, I know.
nice job Mike and I also enjoy both of your channels 👍💪
Appreciate it! 👍
It's called capillary attraction and technically you really should pre tin two and half inch copper it ensures a complete soldered joint
Thanks for sharing
It kinda seemed like they tied your hands on this patch.
Been thier done that good luck
The joints on the 2 1/2 inch copper were not soldered completely that you took apart. Well enough not to leak though. Did you use type M ? I think I saw red lettering. Why not use type L ???/
Because M was 40% cheaper at Ferguson.
Because M was 40% cheaper at Ferguson.
@@PipeDoctor Copper has gone out of site. Plumbing materials have gone up on everything. I am glad to be at this end of my career. I am 73 and still working . I bought 3" DWV for a job last year and almost died when I got the invoice.
I know guys that put pipe dope on the union. They say so it doesn't leak. I tell them if they sit that union right and make sure the mating surface in good, you don't need pipe dope or Teflon. Lol
I like lochinvar, we install their waterheaters in ohio
Making the trades Great again Mikey Pipes. #LoveBosch Smash that Like and Subscribe folks. Happy Holidays.
I know you were doing what customer wanted, but a balancing valve should have been installed on outlet so you could actually measure flow, no guessing. Temperature rise matters only if they are firing properly at 100%. I get the feeling these are not being maintained by someone whom understands how their combustion works, could see white gasket material around burner panels.
You are correct.
A-32 tip
B-tank eater
They need to address that hard water.
pool chemicals
I Wouldve asked them about a complete repipe with the amount of buildup in then pipe
Sunshine says Mikey they make 2” shark bites
lol 😆
$400 coper pipe omega boiler a lot of other issues
Good job mike thanks for you videos GODBLESS SHALOM
Great job Mike.
What happened to the bigger the glob, better the job 😂😂
:)
Why is he still wearing jewelry on the job, leave the Mr. T starter kit at home 😂👑💍🥇
That’s my signature bling
I think it would be hotter if you closed the bypass.
Nope. Colder. Too much flow.
That shaking reminds me of the China Syndrome movie.
Make Plumbing Great Again!! let's go Brandon 🎉😂
Reminded everyone you are , in fact, a plumber.
exactly - licensed in 3 states.
Hello dr henry p davis lll of the first baptist of highland park. You checking on the blue collar community again, who Mikey, he could talk John the Baptist in putting a heated pool too. God bless you.
Amen 🙏
Alot of heat
Hey not to be a dick but you should have used a globe valve for throttle at the valve of the outlet piping
Did you have to call Steve and Miss Molly to show you how to solder pipe pipes?
Very nice.
Thermostatic return valve is ideal for these applications.
That’s what we use on our hydronic rental trailers.
Great video. Thank you for sharing
Thanks for watching!
Gate valves should either be fully open or fully closed. Never should be used to control flow.
wrong
Wrong brother
Micheal showing the old soldering skills with a nice 2-1/2” commercial boiler piping. Does any local supply house rent the jaw set for 2-1/2 - 4? Nice change of pace with this video 👏👏👏
👋
That heater is shot . All the calcium build up your losing heat transfer. That system should be on a heat exchanger
Always anti seize the flange gaskets
Those copper/brass unions suck they like to leak from time to time i will dope the sealing surface never the threads
Hey Mike Diack, of Mikey Pipes Plumbing not easy being cheesy. I like your podcast/social media. Again where is the primer mixing valve and anti- scalding device. And no way too descale boilers on a bi yearly basic. Sound like there might be a hole in secordary heat exchanger and pool water mixing with boiler water causing violent thermal shock in piping system. Do you said, Lockinar or Jack Dainel old number seven again.lol. Love you buddy, you be safe out there.