Ditching an Airplane by Barry Schiff
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- Опубліковано 1 жов 2024
- Ditching is a precautionary or forced landing of a landplane in water. Learn the principles and techniques as only Capt. Schiff can demonstrate. Originally published in 1992 by Aviation Media, Inc. on Wide World of Flying.
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I have ditched a Bonanza in the ocean. I agree with much of what Barry says. However, my experience differs in a number of key areas with his observations. I chose to fly the plane at about 15 mph above stall speed and use ground effect to settle on to the water combined with purposely dragging my tail first to slow the plane down while maintaining elevator control. The nose did not pitch forward. That may have been because my speed gave me elevator control until the plane decelerated enough to settle into the water and ride atop like a boat. Further, my plane took about 15 minutes to sink. One area he did not cover much was tower communications with position as well as communicating the result of the ditching. In my case, after coming to a stop, I radioed that we were all OK and exiting the plane. Then I shut off the master. Also just prior to touch down I shut off my fuel as a precaution. He did not address any restart procedures per se, guessing that he is making the assumption that efforts were already made. I would be very interested to see the data about retract/low wing vs fixed gear/high wing ditching results. I cannot fathom how a fixed gear plane would not pitch violently forward when the gear grabbed the water at 40-50+ mph. My tail did not cause me to pitch forward because IMO it was a very smooth, curved surface. Lastly, I will quote the age old adage in any emergency - FLY THE PLANE! The NTSB investigator I was interviewed by told me that over 70% of people in these ditching situations perish due to avoidable consequences- like stall/spin or other mistakes caused by distracted or fear based actions. Fly safe!
As a pilot living on an island in the great lakes I can say this is my only real fear in flying. Taking off out over the lake and having engine trouble is something we plan for, but hope never happens. This is great information to have.
Great advice!
@@bryce7285Mackinac island?
@@ltpinksock1157 north bass island
If I had to ditch I'd rather be in something with the gear up
love the extra touches, like the rubber ducky and snorkel lmao. great job
Another tip: When ditching into a hot tub, always turn off the bubbler to reduce foam in the water which would provide less buoyancy.
Love it!🤣
Thanks for sharing, Brian. Good info and Barry’s typical humor. Barry was pass riding on my flight years ago. I had an AOPA magazine in my flight kit, and asked him to autograph his article. He said “no one ever asked me for an autograph “. He wrote above his signature;
“Dave, don’t crash”.
He still tells me that!
I fly extensive offshore pipeline routes in a single engine prop so I really appreciate this video. Also, remember to equip a registered EPIRB device attached to your lifejacket and a handheld radio.
Great advice - an instructor once told me, "If it's not on your person, then it's cargo - not emergency gear."
Of course, when this video was made, there was no such thing. ;-)
One of my very favorite aviation authors for over thirty years. This is the first time I ever heard his voice. Thanks for posting.
I've heard (and still do) hear that voice yelling "Right Rudder!"
me too. I flew a lot with Barry in my Citabria and his in the 80's
This guy is funny😂, all jokes aside, he makes a very educational video about a subject that most of us aviators are incredibly nervous about, I pray and wish there were more training videos like this on all sorts of subjects.
Seeing all of these fatal crashes lately makes me have to ask, is there nothing we can do???
Also I hope I never have to use his advice, but if the day comes it very may well save it as well as my passengers.
Barry has many other videos of interest in Aviation
When that Cessna model floats belly-up into the corner of the frame, that's peak visual comedy! As a Colorado aviator, I do want to make a note for ditching in mountain lakes. Lower elevation reservoirs are one thing, but true alpine lakes are not to be trifled with. They are snowmelt, at high elevation, and usually in the shade of surrounding peaks. Even in the middle of summer, the conditions can cause cold water shock. This risks drowning, organ failure, and, of course, hypothermia. Obviously, if the lake is the only level surface, you take what you can get. But if there's even a semblance of flat terrain, you might be better off in the treetops.
Great advice - something I hadn't thought of.
Extremely valuable perspective
If you search Bellanca N8792V you will learn of a brand new 1971 Bellanca 300 Super Viking, entered the London - Victoria, Air Race. Ditched in the fog off the southern tip of Greenland, pilots landed gear-up, flaps-up with no damage to the aircraft, the two flight crew entered a life raft, were picked up by helicopter three hours later. The next day the Bellance was towed 60 miles to shore put in a hanger after being rinsed off with fresh water. Those Bellanca's ditch well. Two days after that adventure they stopped by the dealer Leggat Aircraft and another Bellanca was seen sport a sign..."The New Bellanca Float Plane"
Wow - interesting story!
Yes it is a interesting moment from the past. I have a couple of the official race books published to commemorate this unusual government sponsored air race. As much as anything it illustrates how at one time GA was much more mainstream. The list of entrants included, Don Jonz, Clay Lacey, Margaret Mead, Fran Bera, Ernest Gann, Louise Sacchi, etc.@@TheProficientPilot
@7:23 where did the duck come from? 🤣
Long Live Barry Schiff. Thanks for been a good emergency maneuvering teacher for decades..
this feels like smth you would watch in elementary school and love bc its better then doing math, great video
I flew on a commercial airline yesterday. The pre-flight lecture made reference to "the unlikely event of a water landing". The logical definition of a "landing" might be deemed to be that referring to a plane's touchdown on LAND. Unless landing on a puddled runway, there is no such thing as a water landing. The preferred description, at least from an airline's marketing standpoint, would be an arrival at an unscheduled aquatic destination.
We all know that people in offices with a window and degrees in passenger psychology decide exactly what goes into those briefings and what words are best used. the goal is to educate them on safety without scaring the crap out of them.
I got my sea plane rating in a Lake Buckneer just in case…. And I know how (trained) to exit an aircraft that has flipped.
PS… I also carry a water proof marine radio on my vest.
@Brian Schiff WOW! Another great video from your Father!
A few additional things.
Any forced landing or ditching, thumbs outside the yoke before impact. If you maintain a normal grip, the impact may break your thumbs, making egress difficult or impossible. THUMBS OUT.
Also, do not release your harness until all violent motion has stopped, and you’ve grabbed a reference point.
I train to sliding my seat all the way aft. It keeps my head further from the glareshield, and allows me to kick the windshield out if the doors do jam.
damn, I was just talking to someone who's dad flew for TWA about Barry Schiff.. wonder if this is why the algorithm suggested this. I just assumed Barry passed away already.
This is great knowledge in case I have to land a plane in water. I don't fly aeroplanes, but if I did great stuff.
Hi brain. Great channel and production.thank you.
Before I became poor and no longer had the money to fly, I won the wonderful Schiff VHS tapes at an AOPA safety seminar in MA. Great memories.....
Damn shame Capt. Sullenberger couldn't/didn't join him in the hot tub, that would have been seriously funny.
104 ditchings in 3 years? That seems like a lot lol
What a swell video!
Doesn't a bathyscape carry gas to the bottom of the ocean, instead of air? I wonder after ditching, if unbroken fuel tanks matter at all.
A very good easy to understand video. An excellent communicator
brian, I know your dad and have watched all of his videos.
Same here! 🤣
1:02, Brian casually laying some groundwork. 😂
The Cessna coming into view at 11:56 😂
lmao...
I know twopeople that have ditched in the Pacific between California and Hawaii.
Both because of fuel exhaustion.
One in a Twin Otter at night and the US Coast Guard laid a flare path in the water. They all got out before it sank and floated around in a raft being picked up the next day by a ship.
The other in a P750 XL. Sole occupant during the day and a Hercules aircraft was on station with rescue divers ready to parachute in if he got out of the airplane before it sank, which he didn’t .
The difference being summer when the ocean was calm and winter when there was a large swell.
I fly a twin jet airliner over a wild stretch of open ocean and I wonder why we even bother with ditching drills. I am certain that there have been swells so large that the weather radar has given returns on individual swells.
I fly between CA and HI and wonder the same. Maybe we never have to ditch airliners in the ocean because of the precautions we take and are ready for it. (knocking on wood)
I remember the P750 ditching. I listened to the Coast Guard as they were headed out to him (I was a pilot with United Airlines) I called the Coast Guard the next day to see if he survived and they said no. They watched him hit tail 1st and the nose went into the ocean & flipped over. He hit his head on the dash, the plane was partially submerged, enough to cause him to drown. They parachuted guys down to try to rescue him, but could not.
@@blackbeautytales I am a New Zealander where the aircraft was manufactured. It was the first one to be exported to the US but never made it obvious. Quite a good product but unfortunately the company has gone broke. Don’t know if anyone else has taken over production or not.
Wait... Normal glide speed ISN'T minimum sink rate speed?
No. Best Glide is to Vy as Min Sink Speed is to Vx. Think of it that way. Min sink keeps you in the air for a longer time. Best Glide gets you as far as you can go (distance).
Precautionary landing? Hell no.
How about ditching a tail dragger?
At least you can't ground loop, since there is no ground....
This will save life's.
That was a great video. Thanks..
"Another happy landing."
eu so queria essas miniaturas pra mim
Well...After countless hours of examining
Is this the same guy who wrote Flight 902 Is Down??
Yes.
@@TheProficientPilot amazing!! Such a banger of a book. Vatican Something too. Target?
@@charleskennedy1712 Yes. The Vatican Target. a.co/d/4ZykIkn
@@TheProficientPilot I liked the Vatican Target because it was set aboard a 747SP. Nice touch!
Should i unbuckle me seatbelt before ditching to make evacuation faster?
I’m not an expert but I have conducted egress training known as “DUNKER” through the Army’s flight training program. I would recommend that you leave your seatbelt fastened for two reasons: to prevent injury in a harder than anticipated landing and to keep your bearing if you find yourself upside down/disoriented.
Brian Schiff: Are you Barry's son? I just stumbled across this video. I always enjoyed reading THE PROFICIENT PILOT that your dad wrote years ago.
yes, Brian is Barry's son. I flew alot with Barry in the ealy 80's
Useful information.
My dad ditched on a 172 once, and he did it using the rudder just before the impact, because he don't have engine and dont' want a frontal impact, I don't know if was the best, but everybody survive, even the 3 fat ladys on the plane XD. The only injury was his ankle, because the water came strait the front wheel and he can't get out his foot on time.
Ditching on a river…..ignore the current. Ignore the shore. Just look at the wind induced waves and land into the waves, the way any floatplane pilot does. DO NOT ignore waves induced by river current. Those are stationary and obviously caused by flow. Try to stay clear of them and land with the current.
Should also say, avoid ditching in glassy water…..you will NOT be able to judge height so you will NOT be able to flair which means your speed will be high and your nose will be low, inviting a big impact. If you must ditch on glassy water, do it very near shore or near a boat so you have some hieght reference.
07:21 If you look out your window and see your neighbor in a hot tub in scuba gear and toy airplanes don’t be alarmed, he’s only filming a UA-cam video!
They make my horrifying experience fun! Thanks guys!
Your dad did one on flying a taildragger using a Champ. It was probably the best video on tailwheel basics. Can you post that, Brian?
7:29 A simpler explanation for the disparity between retractable vs fixed gear survival statistics is that I assume retractable gear aircrafts are also higher capacity. So even if the survival rate is the same for both planes within their own type, the number of perished souls will still be higher
Can you actually stuff compartments with pong balls?
Sounds easy but i can't imagine been there in the last Barry's one minute
How can I get that red book which you you advices?
actual events in training classes...
Why not wear a parachute too. I’d never get in any little airplane without a parachute. It should be a basic part of the outfit.. What’s it some macho thing to think that the plane and human won’t eventually fail? Why not have a parachute ready to go and perhaps a raft? Yeah it’s extra weight.. so get a bigger engine!
You obviously dont know what you are talking about . . .
@@TRPGpilot what is it? Please explain? I’m trying to learn something about flying and was considering it for a hobby but it seems like the odds of crashing are very very high! Maybe I’ve watched too much flight debrief but I really think a parachute would be a good idea.. just saying i have no idea is true but what’s the reason? Thank you for your time in advance!
@@larryjohnny 1. Space and weight in a sports Aircraft are very limited. Please have a look how big the parachute packs are in reality.
2. In Aerobatics Parachutes are actually worn. Those Airplanes have to be specially prepared. For Example the doors can be removed completely. You won't even be able to open a regular door wide enough in flight.
3. Leaving a plane in an uncontrolled state can be extremely dangerous. And the plane will get out of balance the moment, the pilot leaves - totally possible to hit him.
4. The Video does not mention that the survival rates of ditching small planes are very good. Over 90 %! And this again is, because the biggest danger is hypothermia or drowning. Why add additional risks by parachuting?
5. The slightly „short“ comment of TRPGpilot might be, because You sound like a extrem know-it-all, although you do not seem to have informed yourself to the slightest. To insinuate all others a „macho“ attitude, although You are not even a pilot, is outrageous. And why „not have a raft“? You may be surprised, that stupid macho pilots do exactly that. They carry lightweight rafts, which increases chance of survival much more than parachutes (see 4.)
A crash landing is survivable. 30,000 lbs of fire and steel falling onto onlookers is not.
As a pilot you are responsible for yourself sure, but also passengers, cargo, and everything below you.
Parachutes are for cowards and children.
Great teacher GREAT
You sunk my battleship
It's A Roll Of The Dice!!!!
she got that rubber duck rizz
I hope I can recall all I learned in case my engine quits over water. Would have been curious how a high wing taildragger behaves when ditched...
Sullie, deleted this theories
1:05 was super weird.
Barry, you're a legend... these old gold clips are why....
The best explanation about diching airplanes I have ever seen.
this is gold.
i love all the flourishes and flares. plus great instruction!
Hatchet
I only fly RC airplanes but I watched the whole video during my lunch break 😂
That's a very good class!
30-40 ditchings a year?!! I don’t think so.
ALWAYS enjoy a Schiff lesson, especially in person! Entertaining and educational.
The best dit hing was performed by Sully Soninberger in 2009 on the Hudson river.I think the plane was an Airbus A320.