what a difficult limit!!

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  • Опубліковано 16 січ 2025

КОМЕНТАРІ • 57

  • @perkyfever
    @perkyfever 8 місяців тому +79

    Probability method: provided limit is the probability that random variable with Poisson distribution with parameter n is less than n. Central Limit Theorem implies that the given limit equals Ф(0) = 1/2

    • @nicopb4240
      @nicopb4240 8 місяців тому +1

      Wow that’s beautiful
      Thank you

    • @csilval18
      @csilval18 8 місяців тому +2

      Yeah! I had this problem in a probability theory homework last week and that was the solution lol.

    • @balpedro3602
      @balpedro3602 8 місяців тому +2

      I knew beforehand this probability approach, but also notice the integrals Mr.Penn studied are just the remainder in the Taylor's formula in its integral form,, so either way we get a more understandable solution.

    • @perkyfever
      @perkyfever 8 місяців тому

      ​@@heliumfrancium8403 Not really?

    • @GiornoYoshikage
      @GiornoYoshikage 8 місяців тому +1

      ​​@@heliumfrancium8403 In Poisson distribution with parameter `λ` the probability of value `k` is `e^(-λ) * λ^k / k!`. In this case λ=n

  • @entine4
    @entine4 8 місяців тому +51

    If you pull the e^(-n) inside the summation, the summand is just the pdf of the Poisson distribution with mean n. As n gets large, Poisson converges to normal distribution with mean n. So summing from 0 to n is like finding P(k

    • @2kchallengewith4video
      @2kchallengewith4video 8 місяців тому

      You just copied the math stack exchange answer

    • @MooImABunny
      @MooImABunny 8 місяців тому +12

      I think in essence that's what he's doing, but rigorous.
      Saying one distribution family approaches another is wishy washy and imprecise. In physics that's acceptable, but this is a math channel.

    • @damianalex4994
      @damianalex4994 8 місяців тому

      As n tends to infinity the poisson distribution IS a normal distribution.
      You can proof it starting with a binomial distribution, find the convergence and the correction, see that as the limit of n going to infinity the correction goes to zero.
      Since the poisson distribution is a subcase of the binomial you get that the reasoning with the poisson distribution is exact and rigorous. It's a standard exercise in probability courses.
      Since one has knowledge about the Poisson distribution why not use it? You can call it a trick but it's correct, exact and rigorous.
      The video is clearly been made assuming the viewer doesn't have further knowledge. This makes the video enjoyable for everyone even without knowing much about probability.
      He doesn't need to kill the exercise, just make it interesting and maybe teach, to at least someone, something new.
      ​@@MooImABunny

    • @entine4
      @entine4 8 місяців тому +15

      True, but the proof is relatively straightforward using moment generating functions. Another way to think of it… poisson(n) can be thought of a sum of n iid poissons(lambda=1).As n goes to infinity, sum of n iid variables converges to normal via the standard CLT

    • @phscience797
      @phscience797 8 місяців тому +1

      ⁠@@MooImABunny How is saying that a sequence of distributions converges to another distribution wishy washy? Were you just referring to the fact that entine4 did not write out the entire argument in their comment? Or am I missing a technical detail?

  • @JeanYvesBouguet
    @JeanYvesBouguet 8 місяців тому +16

    At 17:17, small typo: (x-1)^n should be (1-x)^n. That would have broken the end result.

  • @DeeandEd
    @DeeandEd 8 місяців тому +6

    My first thought when I saw this was “Poisson distribution” lol

  • @cameronspalding9792
    @cameronspalding9792 8 місяців тому +5

    @ 18:09 I think it should be 1-x not x-1

  • @vladimirlucic1276
    @vladimirlucic1276 8 місяців тому +2

    Appeared as Problem E2723 in American Mathematical Monthly in 1978. Related to Szasz generalization of Bernstein polynomial approximations.

  • @goodplacetostop2973
    @goodplacetostop2973 8 місяців тому +14

    18:20

  • @restcure
    @restcure 8 місяців тому +1

    I just looked at the store - nowhere does it say "A good place to shop." ... Seriously?

  • @Mystery_Biscuits
    @Mystery_Biscuits 8 місяців тому +1

    4:10 doesn’t this integral evaluate to sqrt(2pi/n)? In which case the argument results in L \leq 1, not 1/2, so the later squeeze theorem stuff doesn’t work?

  • @MooImABunny
    @MooImABunny 8 місяців тому +1

    7:15 hold on, that can't be right, you can set x=1. Then f(x) = 0, but the RHS is a_n*e-½, which is clearly positive...
    In the next line you say we want to decrease the value so we shrink the bounds of integration to [0, n^-¼], which is valid.
    I think the claim should be that f(x) ≥ a_n e^(-x²/2) on that new range.

  • @GeorgeMenegakis
    @GeorgeMenegakis 7 місяців тому

    If we set λ as the value of the limit, i think it's easy to show that λ=1-λ, thus λ = 1/2. The idea is to add and subtract the sum from m to infinity of n^k/k! so you have that λ = lim(1 - e^(-n) * sum (m, +oo, k^m/m!)) and with substitution of the summation variable το generate again the Σn^ν/ν! with ν from 0 το Infinity), thus having λ = 1-λ, leading το λ = 1/2

  • @SaidVSMath
    @SaidVSMath 8 місяців тому +4

    Was not expecting that, crazy limit

    • @xinpingdonohoe3978
      @xinpingdonohoe3978 8 місяців тому

      Yes, 1/2 feels a bit unexpected. 1 would be believable. So would 0. But it's right in the middle.

  • @robertmonroe9728
    @robertmonroe9728 8 місяців тому +2

    3:08 Do not understand HOW we can extend to infinity and still say that the integral will be less. Comparing integrals with same boundaries is ok, but not a different ones

    • @ivandebiasi6657
      @ivandebiasi6657 8 місяців тому +3

      Given that g(x) = e^(...) > 0, if you extend the interval over which you integrate the value of the integral increases. He basically condensed two steps into one: intg-0^1 f(x) < intg_0^1 g(x) < intg_0^inf g(x)

    • @beniborukhov9436
      @beniborukhov9436 8 місяців тому +1

      @@ivandebiasi6657 Ah thanks. Forgot we were dealing with an equality and was super confused by that step.

  • @MooImABunny
    @MooImABunny 8 місяців тому +1

    7:15 hold on, that can't be right, you can set x=1. Then f(x) = 0, but the RHS is a_n*e-½, which is clearly positive...

  • @miguelaphan58
    @miguelaphan58 8 місяців тому +1

    ..a real marvel of data !!

  • @cameronspalding9792
    @cameronspalding9792 8 місяців тому +1

    Personally I would have made use of the central limit theorem

  • @ДенисЛогвинов-з6е
    @ДенисЛогвинов-з6е 8 місяців тому +3

    Stolz-Cesàro theorem?

  • @srikanthtupurani6316
    @srikanthtupurani6316 8 місяців тому +3

    These are extremely adhoc methods.

  • @dankkush5678
    @dankkush5678 8 місяців тому +1

    Beautiful simply

  • @cphVlwYa
    @cphVlwYa 8 місяців тому +13

    One of the most important parts of education or presentation in general is knowing when to present information so the flow of logic seems consistent and understandable. Why would you ever introduce that random limit at the start and then justify its appearance? It just makes everything way worse to follow

    • @El0melette
      @El0melette 8 місяців тому +10

      That type of presentation is very common in mathematics. And I don't think it's wrong to do things that way. Of course, always keeping in mind that behind that neat blackboard, there are several pages of frustrated calculations.

  • @GhostyOcean
    @GhostyOcean 8 місяців тому +3

    The sum is the beginning of the maclauren series for e^n, so we can rewrite as e^n - SUM(n^k/k!) for k>n. Distributing the e^(-n) we get 1-SUM(e^(-n)n^k/k!). So my guess for the limit is 1, I think the tail will die to zero in the limit. Let's see if I'm right.

    • @GhostyOcean
      @GhostyOcean 8 місяців тому +1

      Oof. Well, I wasn't too far off! I think with some work I could show the tail bit goes to ½ so the limit also goes to ½.

    • @josephcamavinga9721
      @josephcamavinga9721 8 місяців тому +1

      It's not the McLauren series of e^n since it depends on the upper bound of the sum

    • @GhostyOcean
      @GhostyOcean 8 місяців тому +1

      @@josephcamavinga9721 I did not say it was the maclauren series, I said it was *the beginning* of the series. That distinction is necessary and important.

  • @steves3948
    @steves3948 8 місяців тому

    How can anyone understand this?

  • @clearnightsky
    @clearnightsky 8 місяців тому

    Why doesn't SUM(n^k/k!), k=0..n converge to e^n when n->infinty?

    • @9WEAVER9
      @9WEAVER9 6 місяців тому

      because the argument of e^n, which is n, is a diverging factor and therefore the limit in your question doesn't converge at all =)

  • @RSLT
    @RSLT 8 місяців тому

    Very Nice

  • @hugohugo37
    @hugohugo37 8 місяців тому +2

    Not the most intuitive proof I've ever seen. Kinda hard to follow.

  • @srikanthtupurani6316
    @srikanthtupurani6316 8 місяців тому

    It is understandable from the solution why he came up with the integral. But those inequalities especially the second one is not easy to find. The first inequality is also not easy. May be if someone is lucky and thinks that this has to involve gaussian intergrals may be motivated to come up with those inequalities. This is clearly extremely adhoc. But nice solution.

  • @ethanlipson1637
    @ethanlipson1637 8 місяців тому

    How can I suggest a neat proof of the Euler product formula for the Riemann zeta function? I'm not sure a UA-cam comment is the best place

  • @aadfg0
    @aadfg0 8 місяців тому

    You wrote f wrong the 2nd time around (e^(-x) instead of e^x) and we should have a_n^n. Ignoring these, you "proved" e^(-x^2/2) a_n inf, this shows f(x) = e^(-x^2/2). A bound on f which depends on n is highly suspicious, you must have some constraint on x.

    • @MooImABunny
      @MooImABunny 8 місяців тому

      exactly. Watching past that makes me think this inequality holds on the shrunk range [0, n^(-¼)]

    • @nahuelcaruso
      @nahuelcaruso 8 місяців тому

      I've been stuck in the same part, it is clear that a_n->1, but a_n

  • @emanuelecurotto2448
    @emanuelecurotto2448 7 місяців тому

    The limit should be one. Take another look at the two Gaussian integrals. They were not computed correctly.

  • @edcoad4930
    @edcoad4930 8 місяців тому

    This only works if, n! ~ ( ) and also always less than. Is that true?