Yes, you're fatphobic. w/ Dr. Joy Cox and @AmaPoundcake
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- Опубліковано 18 гру 2020
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i know this just dropped like minutes ago but i feel compelled to express my appreciation for kim & how she is not afraid to approach topics that leave black women viciously divided, all while using her platform to educate and have these conversations in ways that are beneficial to those who are willing to listen. it’s so refreshing to see.
Kim isn’t afraid to be controversial. One of my favorite things about her.
I agree!
As an American who currently lives in Europe I don’t think it’s the genetics but rather the environment. It’s rare to see fat bodies, and especially the sizes that have become the norm in the US. I think it’s because of various reasons, including:
- no demonization of fat, the people here eat full fat cheeses and chicken with the skin on. Fat makes food delicious and keeps you satiated
- people cook here because the cost of fast food is more expensive, they pay living wages for labor
- people have longer meals when they eat out. In France, most businesses provide restaurant tickets to allow workers to have proper lunches
- people walk more
- fruits and vegetables are cheaper (the governments supplement them rather than grains in the US)
I also hear that 95% of diets fail. Diets don’t work but lifestyles do.
I have listened to many arguments on the fat liberation angle. I do agree that fat bodies are more discriminating against. But I think the problem is that most people think fat is a personal sin. I rather see it as a structural issue with the lack of knowledge on how to stay healthy and lack of access to good food, ie food deserts. America has an obesogenic environment.
I think more should be done on dealing with that type of environment rather than laying “blame” on fat people. I’m not saying that fat people ought to want to change. But being in Europe, especially France, you see just how anomalous the percentage and degree of obesity is.
Exactement !! T'as tout dit !!
Amen
I wish this comment got more attention
Moreover, lets not forget the limit of saying: '' People can do what they want with their bodies''. Who does that profit??? The multinational corporations, coca cola, Mcdonalds etc... I lived in France too and the point you made on lifestyle hit the nail on the head. The self acceptance endeavor should not cover up the reality of what is behind America's obesity crisis. This crisis is the tip of the iceberg in my honnest opinion!! And shouting on one hand that one should take care of their health by dieting more and on the other let all be, is the manicheism that towers over the real issue. This crisis is tie to all the other crisis... The works of Indian anthropologist Arjun Apadurai brings great insight to this problematic. In the 1970's he did a comparative study of the living conditions of the people of Harlem compared to the people of Sri lanka ( where there was a raging famine), he saw that albeit the famine that was raging in Sri lanka, most people ( other than pregnant woman and young children) were in better health than the people from Harlem. Harlem a city that belongs to the most powerful nation in the world. That says a lot... The results could be explained by the culture of solidarity and altruism that is part of Sri Lankan society...Anyway this is food for thought... I would to have the core issues be included when debating something like that
@tanino you’ll find that a lot of these social justice movements aren’t as radical as they look. Most serve a capitalist agendas. Fat acceptance used to be something positive, now it endorses overconsumption (at the peril of the black community especially).
We can't have only ONE Lizzo
To me that points out the lack of body representation in the mainstream
Yeah I get irritated with people who don't like her say, "we had Missy Elliott" or "We had Jill Scott" as if there's only room for one fat person and Lizzo is too much because she flaunts her body and does what she wants.
We only have room for a few fat women at a time.
@@AJ-cq5pw.. right! And those two women did NOT have the gaze that Lizzo has now. They were seen, yes, of course. But all eyes are on Lizzo anytime she moves.
Tvs arent large enough for more then 1 Lizzo
When I see before and after pictures I get happy to see them achieve their goal and I feel like it’s selfish for me to say “ since your goals aren’t my goals don’t show them”.... I’m personally not on a weight-lost journey but it doesn’t mean I should down a person who is.
That's not why people hate before andafter photos. When people post before and after photos, they are essentially saying "this is the old ugly me that I'm ashamed of" and "this is the new and improved me that I'm proud of." It perpetuates this idea that fat people are failed thin people and once they achieve thinness they can finally be proud of themselves. And as the women in this video pointed out, 95-98% of people cannot lose weight on their own, diets do not work long term and most people gain the weight back immediately. If you want to lose weight, that's fine, but you can do it without endorsing that ideal.
also, for people who have experienced disordered eating, setting before and after photos can be triggering.
I don't think they are mad at the people who post the pictures, but they are mad at the diet culture behind it. For example I don't hate people who believe in god, but I do hate the religious institutions that perpetuate the homophobia, transphobia, misogyny, racism, etc... It's not about the individual especially since the people who are in those systems are being hurt too.
Aliyah J. Or maybe they’re just proud to hit a goal..... if they are not happy in their bodies they should change it and if that change makes them happy then so be it .. n if you are happy without making a change then so be it... again I find it selfish to say well I’m comfortable in this body therefor you should be comfortable in this body but if your not then you’re the problem... and yes diet fail but lifestyle changes don’t... it’s tons of people who even adopted a plant-based lifestyle who has lost weight and has kept it off for years.. by your logic we can be fat without endorsing that ideal.. I just feel like people should have the ability to post whatever they want to post on their social media with having a group of people who don’t have to watch judge them for hitting goals just because we don’t have the same goals or you find their goal is to be in Vaild because it’s not what you want to do with your body.
Amber Berg I could see how they could be triggering to someone who deals with disordered eating but I also feel like if you had a goal that you are proud of you should be able to celebrate ... and honestly I can only speak for myself but I hardly ever run across that many before and after pictures so I think it’s all based off the algorithm of each individual.
We often talk about how black women don't get to just be, we don't get to be human. This is no different. If she IS losing weight because of the benefits of being smaller... let us let her do that. She is human and I am sure she wants to be desired and deemed attractive by others like most of us do. Is it problematic? Maybe. Is it human? Absolutely. Let this girl be.
Fat women are projecting all of their shit on to her and it is not ok. If you are happy being fat? Then be happy! The outrage over what someone does to their body leads me to believe that they arent actually happy.
it is the outrage on her choices as if she chose for everyone else, I wish everyone could let her just be!
Exactly. Sometimes body positivity comes off more as a movement of trauma bonding than acceptance and self love. If you're fine with your body, why are you so bothered by lizzo maybe wanting to change hers. This is what happens when you vicariously live through celebrities and just other people period.
I wonder if any of you watched the video before commenting.
The problem is... She shouldn't live in a society where she has to lose weight to gain desirability or whatever... That's a reflection of society and how it Ill treats fat women
Not fat women projecting.
@@darkskinfatgirl0147 She shouldn't. But here we are.
Literally so many movements have been co-opted by this desirability politics nonsense. When ever conversation about colorisim happens it always ends up being about who is seen as beautiful. It’s really exhausting and all these important coversation topics gets ignored. Think brown skin girl which is literally a song meant to empower young dark skin girl and is just preaching about how men will desire them, so they should have self esteem because the male gaze will eventually find them beautiful. It’s disheartening.
I remember after coming out as trans I was homeless for a while and I lost weight. So when I returned to college, everyone was congratulating me on my weight loss and I was just like "thanks, I was homeless".
And that just sticks in my mind. We see people lose weight and automatically assume it was a good thing. I had a friend who lost weight after going through chemo. And when she was in remission she started to gain the weight back and starting receiving all these snide comments about dieting and watching what she eats. I'm telling you, I was ready to fight some people. Bitch the reason she lost so much weight before was she was sick. Now that she's gaining weight again, it shows that she's getting better. God, people get on my last nerves sometimes
My best friend had digestive parasites and got even thinner. People would look at her and say they wanted her stomach, and she would literally say, "if I could cut it out and give it to you, I would."
It’s disgusting how society perceives weight gain as a failure but weight loss as a success.
I lost weight as a result of stress and depression, I was partying all the time to distract myself but at the same time I was getting compliments and never received so much attention in my life.
I got into a happy fulfilling relationship and gained all the weight back and so many made “jokes” about my butt getting bigger. I’m still struggling with the perception slimness because when I was skinny I was unhappy.
Thank you for saying this. I agree.
@@DoraWinifred absolutely! Our society needs to change and stop using people's weight or physical appearance as a gauge for success.
I do not believe for a second that a cancer patient got hate for gaining weight back after chemo.
As a black woman who has lost weight to be healthy and come out of the realm of pre-diabetic, I feel for Lizzo. She has all right to gain or lose weight .... what happened to my body my choice. It seems ppl are projecting their own insecurities on her. I lost weight through lifestyle change in what I consume...started with the keto diet to lose the initial weight then reintroduced more carbs and I’ve been out of the pre diabetic range for two years and feel better than ever. For me some of these advocates are bitter and lack self control so they opt to try to control things external to them.... like other ppls weight.
@Coco Chanel I don't agree sorry. I had to lose weight due to diabetes and high blood pressure running in my family. Exercising, losing weight and eating right has helped me avoid diabetes, I no longer need to take medication for high blood pressure and I no longer have problems with my knees.
@Coco Chanel I am already educated on the subject, thank you. No, you do not have to be overweight or obese to have these diseases but the extra weight makes it worse period point blank. I have had relatives pass away from untreated hbp. I am not even obese just overweight and the health problems were already showing up. I was warned by my doctor that if I don't do anything about my weight now I'll end up paying for it later. Regardless of what research you have done you can't argue with that. As I stated before changing my lifestyle along with losing weight helped me to be healthier and feel better. Once again you cannot argue with that. You know what else you can't argue with? The years of med school and practice of all the doctors that I've seen that have advised me on MY health. Do what you want, if you have any additional complaints take that up with my doctor. You can tell her all about your research, as for me I'm done. You have a nice evening.
@Coco Chanel Yeah you don't have to be fat to get it, but the majority of people who have type 2 diabetes are fat. I really don't think that is a coincidence.
Exactly 💯
@Coco Chanel Can you cite where you are getting your information from, as I am willing to learn. But from being a science major, I've learnt that excess fat prevents insulin from effectively regulating your blood sugar levels, just to summarise. So even though, thin people can get type 2 diabetes caused by factors other than excess fat, being overweight makes you more liable to the disease. But again, I have left school for a few years now, so maybe my information is outdated.
As a black woman, I feel like you're going to be judged no matter what you do.
Absolutely, but being at the intersection of fat Black womanhood makes it that much harder
Bingo!!!!
Yup
@@Hildasmood pushing the judgement aside,you do know that 12000 americans if not more die every year due to be fat right?and,this is something you can control,diets and exercising frequently,the information is available on the internet,the results are Available on the internet,it's not impossible,all I see is a bunch of women who don't want to take accountability for their choices because you can chose not to eat foods high in fat and eat a salad,and not wanting to do the work and resent themselves and the world for it and mask it through trying to blame it on the world as if we forced you to neglect your health, objectively being overweight is unhealthy and can lead to death,my father died from it,my grandmother dies from it and my uncle is in the hospital as we speak because of how high his blood pressure is,ladies,take accountability and change,for yourselves
@@eatsaaas3463 you do know that even if we were all vegan and eating “healthy”, fat people would still exist, right? Please take your fatphobia elsewhere.
If lizzo wants to lose weight, then how is that anyone's concern or business??? So many people seem entitled to tell people what they can or cannot be because they're in the public eye, when if fact it's the opposite. People who have this mindset are the problem, but they're convinced that they are the solution. Lizzo is a perfect example of the saying "damn if you do, damn if you don't"
Gimme the representation AND the power, yes!
I started paying attention to health and fatphobia in service industry. I been a server and bartender my whole life and these are people who have internalized fatphobia yet we put drinking and partying on a pedestal (even hangovers/hair-of-the-dog/day drinking/DUIs are glorified in this industry). So we can still think someone like Shia LeBouff or Lindsey Lohan are desirable because they have maintained their thin-ness but their unhealthy lifestyle habits for sure are causing damage that we don't necessarily see. We don't care as much about holistic health (don't even get me started on mental health) as we think we do. We just like to be "concerned" when people have visible fat
Just an FYI Danni was using the term super fat alot and I wanted to add the information about where that's from in case viewers are unaware.
In the fat liberation community there are terms that were established to describe different size bodies (and their access (or distance) to privilege .
These terms are as follows: small fat, mid-fat, super fat and ifinifat.
In general Small fats are usually people in the America "women" (in quotes for problematic reasons spanning from inconsistency in that sizing frame to the fact that there's no equivalents used for men and non binary people) sizes 14/16 and Infinifats are american "women's" 34/36 and above, and they generally have the most difficult time accessing clothing, medical care and community infrastructure.
lol I’m small fat I guess... I’m a 14... so what will I be at a 12 because I hate it here! 🤷🏾♀️
@@jessicab331 it's just a general label selection, it helps when discussing the issues , the determination of degrees of thin privilege , beauty privilege (which are under the umbrella of systematic rascism).
@@jessicab331 Going by clothing size doesn't really work, because a 14 in the US and Canada is an 18 in Australia/UK and different again in Italy, France and other parts of Europe. Different again in Asia
Thank you for this 🙌🏾
It was mentioned in a passive way, but I do think more conversation needs to be had on the idea that fat people have to be shamed, embarrassed, and punished into losing weight. A lot of people resist the idea of accommodating larger bodies because of the notion that one should be shamed out of being fat. That takes an immense toll on ones mental health and ability to become healthier overall.
First I love the video, but still have mixed feelings, novel below....
I’m an MD student, graduating in 1.5 years, masters in clinical research, and I dabble in research on the eating behaviors of black women.
I love the ideas behind fat acceptance, black fat woman are super marginalized and have horrible outcomes not necessarily related to their weight. The medical system has failed.
There are certain genes related to different eating behaviors that potentially can be turned on/off based on stress, which black women are more likely to be.
On top of that, our governments and large corporations have failed black people. Food desserts without fresh produce, addictive chemicals in junk food, subsidies for corn to produce high fructose corn syrup.
However there is no way a medical professional can say with a straight face that being obese is healthy. Being underweight also is not healthy. But the reasons why people are obese are not as simple as eating healthy and exercising.
We need to have a balanced discussion about weight and weight loss. Diet culture is steeped in lies. Detoxes and cleanses don’t work. BMI is good for research of populations and comparison between groups. However we now know that it is variable between populations, age, amounts of muscle mass. BMI is not a great single marker for determination of what a healthy weight is for an individual. But I have rarely seen a person with BMI of 40+ who was healthy. Even nfl linebackers who are that heavy who may be “healthy” have increased heart strain and issues with joints. The human body is not meant to be morbidly obese period.
We can’t lie to ourselves and say being 50-100+ lbs overweight for decades is completely benign. People should never comment about someones weight and health if they aren’t a their personal health professional, with all their vitals and labs and health history.
So many restrictive white diety youtubers may look a normal weight and healthy, but their skin is frail, hair is falling out, they look exhausted and you can physically see they aren’t healthy
But having excess adipose tissue increases your risk of so many diseases without question. For example estrogen is secreted from adipose tissue, in unbalanced amounts in with excess adipose tissue. Women who have a lot of adipose tissue are more likely to get cancers related to estrogen, cervical, ovarian, uterine, breast etc. And black women have abysmal outcomes related to those, that aren’t because of weight, but some that are, and those are facts.
I understand the access, and stigma, and discrimination is a problem and we have to address that. Every close family member in my life is a fat black woman and I see that every day. But I personally work hard to not become obese because of reasons I mentioned above. I do recognize being doctorally educated with a higher earning potential and time gives me this ability and it may not be the case if I had a different life.
But we have to address that being obese is a medical condition because of the pathophysiology of how adipose tissue in excess affects everything from your brain, to your gut, to your psyche, which increases the risk of death.
Medicines and the pharmaceutical industry do need to do more to accommodate larger people for more effective medications. Speaking to the point of plan b. But the issue is when conducting research on safety and efficacy of medications, the test population has to be free of any medical conditions to prevent confounding info about the study results, and the honest truth is obese people often do not qualify.
Luckily there are more secondary trials that determine dosages for people across weight ranges. But also the risks of horrible side effects of some meds are increased due to weight. Someone who is obese is more likely to have clotting issues, and taking estrogen containing medications increase your risk of clots, so those two compounded is a recipe for disaster and horrible outcomes. It’s so much more complicated than medicine completely ignoring fat people. They do, but researchers also don’t want volunteers for research to die, they have to weigh that risks. It’s a balancing act.
Also with plan b, it’s a mass produced pill with a certain amount of active ingredient in it. It’s the way it is absorbed into the body which is less effective for heavier people, which is true for most medications. In the hospital we can dose mg/kg and the pharmacy can compound it or we give it in IV, but that’s not possible at most Retail pharmacies.
for heavier people, sometimes medical providers recommended is to double the dose can be effective.But because the dose is doubled it does increase side effects. In general with plan b the side effect of vomiting is increased due to more active ingredients(it’s basically just ramped up active ingredient regular birth control pills given in one pill disrupting the GI system) and then if you throw up its less effective so......
Additionally they usually recommend copper IUDs for emergency contraception since its the most effective regardless of weight. However fat black women are less likely to have access to that too which is also a problem.
I just wish these convos were more nuanced than fat people are gross and lazy and are personally responsible for being fat vs you can be healthy at 600 lbs even though you can’t walk and doctors are evil and don’t listen.
That was a ton of info, sorry I can share these research papers if anyone is interested
Thanks for taking the time to read!
Edited some for grammar. Lord that was tough to get through.
Thank you! As an MD myself this is everything I wanted to say. I find these convos really troubling because I REALLy want black women who are plus sized/fat to love and accept themselves at whatever weight but I also see in my practice how incredibly unhealthy obesity can be and how black women especially seem to have higher rates of it.
I would love to snag some of those research paper references from you 👀. These conversations are always so intersectional, especially when talking about medical accessibility for black women, particularly reproductive care like you mentioned.
Because there are so many added obstacles when you are a certain weight, skintone and economic bracket; to get medical care or mental health care of any kind. Which has a HUGE role in self acceptance and overall well being. Resources are denied by zipcode, and expensive when available.
There's just too many layers. I would just like to have as much info to keep up, and be a productive listener in these spaces.
Such good points highlighted here. I hope that the host of this video invites you to her show for future convos like this because we need more medical professionals on the show or people who know more about the science of this.
@@dog5221 yes! I need to update some of my list. Some new studies I’m interested in came out this year.
@@swoosh3684 oh my goodness she really does. I love the sociological /cultural discussion here in the aspect of fat acceptance. But when they started verging into the public health, medicine, biological side...... lord.
Especially one of the panelists in the comments. I would really appreciate if Kim makes a video with a healthcare professional to highlight the health issues facing black women INCLUDING the obesity epidemic. Obesity kills black women period
This was life changing for me!!! Thank you so much for doing this
I agree with many points in here, but I also think some of this conversation is dishonest and contradictory. How is it not about her losing weight, but u take issue with her “before and after” pictures?? How is it not about her losing weight, but ur communion with her was because she’s a bigger black woman?? Ur trying to control someone else’s feelings about their body. Ur trying to control her body because ur communion with her is actually with her body, which is problematic. It’s her body. Lizzo said the detox worked for HER. Should she have been dishonest because u feel like it doesn’t work?? I’m confused by this conversation. She should be able to do what she wants with her body. It’s about how SHE feels. Ur taking her personal feelings out of the discussion which I feel is very harmful, because that’s what we should really be caring about. How does Lizzo feel about herself, her health, and her body rather than how other people feel about her. She’s a person regardless. We often talk about how black women’s bodies are being consumed by everyone, but by the media in particular. Why isn’t that same lens being used here?? And why aren’t they mad at Monique for getting small and losing that communion with her? They skipped right over that.
The issue isn't her losing weight. It's the promotion of a culture that causes harm to US. She could've felt great after that detox but that still doesn't mean they work in the manners described. This isn't personal feelings but actual research has been debunking detoxes for ages now.
Her being able to do whatever she wants with her body is her choice. And as a collective or individual, we also get to choose if we want to remain in communion with her based on her ideals and practices.
Her personal feelings are valid. I'm not demanding Lizzo stop doing what she's doing. However, if you ask me about the practices she is participating in, I'm going to state facts about those things. I'm going to talk about the harm diet culture does to fat Black women and I'm going to state facts about detoxes.
It's not my responsibility to choose for Lizzo where she wants to be situated in all of this, but the practices she participated in has had lasting negative impacts on the fat Black community and it's not fair to be silent about that.
@@joycox1553 ur still not being honest about your true feelings about the topic. I think u need to be more introspective. Maybe listen to what u said specifically about ur communion with her. Ur issue may be detoxes but it’s ALSO about her losing weight. Lizzo never said she lost weight or that it was about losing weight. She said she felt better after eating a lot of bad food and her skin looked better. Yah should have played the clip rather than interpreting what u think she said and felt. You were projecting ur personal feelings about it and it showed in ur conversation about ur “communion” with her.
Furthermore, as a collective, we need to be conscious about the ways that we consume black women’s bodies in the SAME manner that we critique the media and society as a whole. We have the right as black women to critique the way that you approached the conversation. If it’s, “She can do what she wants” then let that be the end of the discussion. It’s HER body!
Lastly, you are concerned about the way that Lizzo situated herself. That was the whole premise of your argument. There should have been a discussion about how we allow smaller women to opt out of being “representation”/ role models but larger black women are not given that privilege because of said “lack of representation”. There should have been a deeper conversation about that pressure. I also noticed that u only responded to parts of my response and TOTALLY ignored many of the questions that I asked so it fit your narrative and perspective. I think that’s very telling.
@@joycox1553 To be honest, from my understanding lizzo was just stating how she felt and her journey in the detox process. There are other people who have done similar practices whether fat or not about the same thing. I think that the problem is that your comment seems targeted because of her celebrity status. But she's more than that. She's more than a figure of representation that you want to project your self image and your sense of communion which honestly I dont think she even asked for. You can speak your truth without having to use her as a sacrificial lamb to spout your argument about the toxicity of diet culture. She's not just fat. She's a woman, she's black. She's lizzo. She operates and interacts with her body and self image differently than you. You dont get to determine that and neither do you get to sit there and explain how other black women neither fat nor skinny and etc should be able to understand and love their bodies. There is a mind there. There is a soul there. Be mindful.
@@annoyingluvsrock so the critique is of the practice. I'm not lost on Lizzo being a whole person. I also am not involved that much in any celebrity's life that I project representation on them for the work I do around fat liberation. There are layers to this that obviously can't be covered in just an hour but the takeaway is nonetheless valid.
Lizzo is at the forefront of this conversation because she RECENTLY participated in practices that highlight diet culture w/ a fan base of fat women under the banner of body positivity (and at times fat acceptance). Dassit. In the past, we seen this happen when Gabby decided to have weight loss surgery. And we've had conversations around this same topic as it relates to Monique.
Lizzo and everybody else is entitled to do whatever they want with their bodies. That's a straw man argument. No one would ever say that they can't. And if they are allowed to do whatever they want, those who they interact with are allowed to do so too.
I dunno if you're involved with collectives around fat Black liberation but those that I'm part of critique everyone along these same lines b/c we know the impact that diet culture has across our intersections.
And like I said in the video, we can hold more than one reality at a time and address these issues. Lizzo can do whatever she wants with her body AND we can talk about how whatever she just did impacted a collective. She literally posted it for others to see. Some ppl welcomed it and others not so much.
.Monique did not have an audience like that and she did not talk about body positivity Monique whole Persona was to put down thin women so not one was shock when she gotten smaller.lizzo is a person and holding this was bigger personally I think they are all shot the fact that she had gotten so much influence and you're right she is a person to do what you want to with her body to me that's when a mammoth vacation came in everybody's looking to her to do something that they want to do and they own life and babe the question
Please share what articles you are referring to when you say weight is not correlated with health.
You can also Google it for yourself
@@m.d.1395 You can't make statements like this without references.
I've heard that Health At Every Size and Body Respect were good books that break down weight science. Especially Body Respect. I'm planning on ordering both
Saw the title and immediately clicked. I’ve dealt with so much fat-phobia in my life, it’s ridiculous.🤦🏽♀️
Same. It's really upsetting
I see 3 dark skinned women...when she said "I'm not darkskinned" 😐
Hahahah
I’m 3 mins in and I will straight up stop if anyone of them uttered that ridiculous statement
I thought the same... but colorism and proximity to white is a whole other topic 🤔
Chile...smh
I know right 🙄🙄
These comments are crazy. People don’t owe it to y’all to be healthy so even if fat people are unhealthy it’s really none of your business. You don’t know their lives so how about just treat them with humanity, the same thing you’d want for yourselves.
Exactly!!! If someone wants to be unhealthy, what is it to anyone else??? Plenty of people, including non-fat people, have unhealthy eating habits and partake in other unhealthy behaviors but no one "cares" about it unless the person is fat. Ppl are just dressing up their fatphobia as "concern" smh
And the funny thing is that you get people praising rappers for doing drugs hahahaha ooooooh my people
It is my business when my taxes pay for their healthcare
@@RA984U then go to another country because people are not going to eating for you😂
@@RA984U ... like their taxes pay for you being an ass! 😊
With Lizzo the problem I am having is that it lookes like these people that are criticizing her are starting to get to her. Like because she is fat and black, how dare she be sexy or think she is. So, they mask they're fat phobia as being concered for her health. When the truth is her sexuality makes them uncomfortable.
+
THAT MUTHFCKIN PART tho
That's what concerned me. If she wants to lose weight that's fine, but I have to worry when she says she's doing it because she's starting to believe what people say about her body. I was listening to a commentary and I noticed people chose to ignore that part. They would go on about how wrong it is that people are mad she wants to lose weight and not be the face of "fat acceptance" while saying they hope she'll be a proper representative of Black women. They wanted her to lose weight, not for their health like they claimed, but to stop representing "fat people" and represent them. I thought it was hypocritical.
yes!
@Not Today and no one cares what you think.... Lizzo does not exist to satisfy the male gaze... She lives to be an individual with a journey of her own...
Buy Dr. Cox's book: bookshop.org/shop/forharriet
Just copped it and followed these ladies! Thank you all for allowing us to sit in on this discussion and Kim for setting it up. We missed you, Kim 😩
I met Danni at a Lizzo show and have been following her ever since . Sooooooo happy to see her here!!!
Dr. Joy...ma’am you’re a beautiful dark skinned woman. The denial of this has me giving her the side eye.
Ikr 🤦🏾
Girl me too. I was like huh?? I'm just now watching this. I was listening while doing dishes and had to go walk in front of my TV to stare at her. And Google her photos... That's dark skin hunty. It's giving "I may be fat but at least I'm not dark skinned". Ion like det. White supremacy runs deep within us man.
@@BeautyandtheTox I was sitting there confused as hell
No disrespect to Dr. Joy...but does she really think she's lightskinned?
I don't think she was saying she was light skinned but talking about light skinned people in general....
I'd call that light to medium... Skin comes in almost all shades, even nearly literally black.
I hope not .. sis is a beautiful chocolate sista !!!!!
These conversations always have a glaring hole. The lack of medical professionals.
Exactly! How can you dismiss the medical consequences of obesity when you aren't a medical professional? Hypocrisy.
@@LouBird shut up please.... Because fatphobia targets anyone who's not a size zero....
@@darkskinfatgirl0147 i hope you have good insurance
If you did your research, you would understand that as they said the medical evidence is changing.
@@KRfromthePaleozoic super vague and doesnt address my point.
I appreciate this conversation so much. Thank you for another great vid, Kim x0x
This was very insightful. Thank you for this! 👏🏻
24:58 Airlines discriminate against obesity? If someone takes up more than one seat I don’t see how that’s discrimination. What am I missing here?
@Ciara Milne so are u gonna explain why it’s discriminatory? 🙃 i too would like to know
Wow what a great talk. Thank you for bringing this to us!
Great conversation! It’s always a pleasure seeing your content.
why was there not a medical doctor (black and female preferably) on this panel? I think that view in addition to the positions presented would have been much more impactful and stimulating
Because medical professionals have gaslit fat people all their lives and maybe Kim didn't wanna trigger people?
@@darkskinfatgirl0147 So she can quote studies and data to back up her points, but can't bring in a trained epidemiologist or physician to interpret them with their expertise? i'm not ignoring the REAL trauma and abuse that black people have endured at the hands of medical professionals. But at the end of the day- it's not like black people can just avoid doctors and depend on youtube hacks and chiropractors. we need medical professionals and finding one with our best interests at heart (not just emotional well being BUT ALSO physical longevity) is crucial for survival and quality of life. regardless of whether it's your own choice to avoid doctors, promoting that avoidance to other people will have a huge cost.
@@shanchip1 it's not about medicine. It's about the politics of being fat etc.
@@darkskinfatgirl0147 if it's not about medicine, then the activists can't use health data to further their points (i watched the whole interview, they did multiple times). You can't blatantly say, "95% of all diets don't work, and people regain the weight" and then say it's not about medicine. You can't say "there are all these new studies coming out saying that obesity is not related to health" and then say it's not about medicine. This shit is dangerous and needs to be fact checked, interpreted and analyzed by a reputable source bc in the end, black women lose if these statements are misleading/false...
@@shanchip1 Why is black women deciding to be fat and not changing potentially dangerous to you?
Thank you for these conversations.
I don’t understand. Being fat is a health risk, right? Even if you are not at risk of getting a disease, there are things that fat people cannot do in order to live a fulfilling life. That’s the bottom line. Being obese is in itself unhealthy. I don’t understand why this is a conversation. Being a fat person doesn’t make you bad it just makes you unhealthy and that’s something that should be worked on. I really don’t get why this is an argument. No one should EVER be disrespectful to fat people. No one should EVER belittle fat people. But being fat is not good for you. I think fat people are triggered when people bring up health because we think that the fact that we are not at optimal health makes us bad. No! We just need to lose weight. We are beautiful no matter what, but are we healthy?
Y'know how some people are naturally skinny no matter how badly they eat? There are actually many fat people who eat very healthily and remain fat. The average person who sees a fat person on the street has no idea how healthy they are, only their doctor knows. Body positivity isn't telling people to be okay being unhealthy but rather to recognize that fat doesnt always equal unhealthy and skinny doesn't always equal healthy either. Generally, unless you're their doctor, you don't need to talk to a fat person about their health.
actually theres a lot of healthy fat people, like theyre fit and a study actually found that weight wasnt as big of a risk factor towards health as opposed to food. in fact theres a lot of skinny people who are NOT healthy. being fat =/= being unhealthy and like sierra said theres many fat people who are naturally fat but not any less healthy than the average person.
also focusing on fatness as the main cause of heallth problems often means fat women get dismissed when they have other health concerns ,, so like the while i can see ur opinion,, the weird belief that fatness is inherently unhealthy takes away from other problems
I see the argument, there are alot of healthy overweight people always being thrown around and this just irks me. As a nurse I have NEVER had a "healthy" obese patient over the age of 45. At a certain point your body can not handle the weight. It's very hard to find a older person who is over weight and who isn't diabetic, don't have high blood pressure, thyroid disease, joint issues and a number of other issues. This narrative (being obease is normal and should be accepted) honestly pushed to a younger generation , a generation who is yet to experience the down side of looming health conditions.
Bring fat always mean you are unhealthy. It destroys your immune system for once
There are no truly fat people who are as healthy as a person who is in good shape
Thank you. This was so so good.
Fantastic conversation, as usual! Thank you!
Always here for your amazing content.
I love this video so much! I've learnt so much more and this enriched my Sunday!
It is so cool seeing your faves link up 🙌🏾✨
I LOVE YOU DANNI 🌹🥰
Love love love love this topic and the AMAZING GUEST SPEAKERS!!
Thank u so much for shining a light on this and educating me on something I didnt understand all sides of! 👏🏾
i’m still trying to unlearn all the fatphobia i hold on other people and myself
That's fantastic. It can be really difficult when you first start in learning, because you begin to notice how prevalent it is all around you.
Like what exactly?
Awesome time watching and learning from your guests!!
thank you for sharing-this was very interesting & thought provoking
Great talk! There's a lot I'll take with me for the future. The chair thing is a thing I definitely would have missed
People smoke, drink excessively, anorexia is one of the leading deaths in young girls, some people eat terribly however are glorified due to their fast metabolisms. People can come out with health statistics all they want but the truth is they don't like fat people. Everyone has unhealthy habits that could lead to early death but if its not visible nobody cares. If Lizzo is losing weight via 'detox drinks' then that is NOT healthy, and supporting that weight loss doesn't mean you care about her health, it means you don't like fat people. It's that simple.
I feel like this point is the most simple way to explain it to people. we don't treat health holistically- we simplify healthy to mean skinny and we have no problem looking past other "unhealthy" behaviors in society
@@juicyparsons definitely! When I was going though an eating disorder I would get so many compliments on how ‘great’ and ‘skinny’ I looked without them actually knowing that my body was literally shutting down. Weight can increase or decrease for many reasons. Lizzo’s health is for her and her doctor to worry about, nobody else’s 🤷🏾♀️.
Points! I’ve always been skinny, but people aren’t checking for my health habits or throwing slurs at me if I have illnesses. I was kind of annoyed about the obsession with the obesity epidemic leaving little attention to other health concerns
Got a notepad and made a read/listen list based on this.... already discovered some new music artists that I’m absolutely in love with! A interesting and insightful conversation, and how I’m adding CHIKA onto all my playlists!
You are definitely good at it and I love to watch. You’re conversations are valuable and a contribution to a bigger cause. Love it!!!!
This is so insightful thank you
I really like this channel and I usually learn a lot, but I was really disappointed in this discussion. I've just noticed there are a lot of discussions that black people as a community may not be ready to hear. I'm in the mental health field and I get pushback from certain topics that affect our community as well. With that said, it is a complete disservice to black people to deny that there is no correlation to weight and health. There are so many diseases that disproportionately affect black people that are directly related to our weight and diet. While I do agree that health can exist in many weights and body shapes, that does not mean weight and health are not connected. I noticed that was done a lot in this discussion, as in "if you can find flaws or inaccuracies in other topics about health and weight, therefore everything else we know about health and weight must be false."
I was also bothered that there were no medical professionals on this panel. While I don't question the lane of expertise of the black women panelists, none of them are qualified to be refuting medical research. Black people we have a bad habit of not keeping people in their lanes, and this always hurts us in the end.
🙏🏽🙏🏽
So I think you're right to a certain degree. Definitely see what you're saying. I think this conversation centers representation, agency, messaging, and socialization related to fat Black bodies. Wrapped up in all of that is a pervasive concern trolling that fat people and allies react to. With rampant concern trolling, I think it makes it harder for the actual medical advice to cut through the noise. I'm a fat Black woman trying to figure out what's best for me and how to live in this body and have love of self and love and acceptance for others. That requires me to not engage with lots of conflicting advice and do my own research and feel empowered when I talk to my medical professionals. Weight and health are connected, but I think the phenomenon you're describing is people in fat bodies encouraging each other to do our own research but none of the advice can be everything for everyone. We are all different in our needs.
@@Radiantsunshine2025 In the panelists attempt to bring attention to body shaming/fat phobia, they tried to argue that there are no medical and health issues related to weight. That's what I had an issue with--especially coming from panelists who don't have medical backgrounds. One can be confident in their body and treated with respect by others but also educated about possible health risks.
@@missyd1215 I think a big issue is that the only person who needs to educate fat people about their health risks are doctors in their professional capacity. Not anywhere else, which wasn’t the point of the discussion , so it wasn’t included.
People are worthy of respect and dignity regardless of their weight and health status, but we simply cannot pretend that obesity doesn’t cause illnesses and d*ath. Screw everybody that shames people and says hurtful things, but “health at every size” is simply unacceptable. Let’s champion respect and compassion at every size while also encouraging people to not put on a debilitating amount of fat.
Absolutely. There should be no shaming on size and weight but let's also not ignore that obesity is also a health condition. It's very fair for everyone to want to improve that area if their life. And if it naturally reshapes your figure in any way shape or form that is just natural effect of the body. A lot of my friends who have changed thier lifestyle for what ever motive or goal they had not related to just losing weight have had great achievement in overall health as well as body losing weight because that comes with the lifestyle. It should be encouraged for everyone. Health is important internally and will reflect externally
I'm starting with a nice response that tries not to hurt your feelings in the hopes that you don't feel alienated and become defensive, then moving on to a possibly misdirected rant because I need to rant.
If you paint a picture of what someone with perfect health looks like, they would not be very fat (though probably still fat compared to society's standards, especially for woman), but nobody has perfect health. Health is complicated and largely invisible. It is definitely possible to be fat and mostly healthy and it's possible to be the ideal weight and very unhealthy. We absolutely should encourage everyone, not just fat people, to look out for their health in the ways that they can (while acknowledging a lot of it is not really in their control), but what our current society does is equate health and weight, and people end up doing very unhealthy things to lose weight in the name of health, and that's all kinds of dumb. This is what 'health at any size' is about, it's fighting the notion that health and weight are the same thing. We shouldn't assume fat people are unhealthy and definitely not blame or shame them for it.
Now the rant. Nobody chooses to be fat. Being fat comes with many problems. Nobody wants to be fat. What do you think your encouragements will do? Do you really think that by telling people to not be fat they'll change their mind and not be fat? It's incredibly difficult to lose weight in any sort of permanent way. Dieting simply doesn't work long term, that's been proven, there's no discussion on that. Changing lifestyles can range from hard to impossible. It's incredibly hard when you're living in a suburban food desert where there is no healthy food to buy or it's too expensive (many fat people's deaths are misattributed to obesity while they actually starved from a lack of nutrients because they did not have access to good food; lack of nutrients also causes them to overeat and thus gain weight because their body is telling them it needs more nutrients) and the only viable method of transport is by car in a traffic jam because there is no walking, cycling, or public transport infrastructure on top of restrictive zoning laws meaning there are no stores or jobs anywhere near you. Changing lifestyles can also take a lot of time, money, and energy, and pretty much everyone is short on at least one of those.
And then I haven't even mentioned mental problems getting in the way because I'm not qualified to talk about them, but I will say the pressure society puts on people to not be fat is so incredibly harmful, so many fat people beat themselves up over it while they desperately try and fail to lose weight over and over again. That is way more harmful than the weight is. If you take that weight off of them they might actually be able to focus on their lives and with that their health rather than just living in a crippling depression. Your encouragement does not help them.
And the tragic thing is that losing fat permanently might actually be impossible. There is at least one study that says you gain fat cells when you first gain weight but those cells never disappear, just shrink, and those fat cells gain their weight back much more easily after that. Now personally the word 'never' seems very suspect in that study, I think it's probably more complex than that, but fat people definitely regain weight much more easily. I do believe that most (if not all) people that permanently lose weight as adults only do so by taking drugs, some disease, or getting gastric bypass surgery, all three of which are decidedly less healthy than just being fat. So what exactly do you think you're accomplishing by 'encouraging' people to not be fat? What does it even mean to encourage people? Should we also encourage people not to have cancer? Just let people be, their body and their health is absolutely none of your concern.
Thank you for your thoughtful and impactful work. You are a great interviewer!
Yes i am so pumped for this conversation, i have been working really hard lately to try to better understand and dismantle the fatphobia i have been indoctrinated into since i was young. The more i learn bout the science of ‘health’ the more i learn that weight/size has little to no correlation and its so important that we dismantle this idea that fat = unhealthy. I have many ppl that i love in my life who are fat and almost all of them are just objectivly healthier than me; they regularly excercise, eat healthier fresh produce and actully eat smaller portions than i do, and have a healthier and kinder relationahip with food than me, and yet our bodies present at opposite ends of the scale. We need to be more open as a society to changing our opinions as we recieve new information, and the medical community has been providing us with this ‘new’ info for years now and yet most ppl simply choose to ignore it or actively argue against it, instead of doing the work to provide fat bodies with the same access, protection and rights as skinny bodies. Thank you to all the wonderful woman involved for being willing to have this conversation, i have learnt a lot about the more nunanced aspects of fatphobia. As well as a more nuanced and better understanding of the complex intersection of race within this conversation and movement and i look forward to continuing to expand on this understanding in the future.
Thermodynamics disagree with everything you just said.
Loved this conversation!
If Dr. Cox isn’t dark skin... what is she ?
Thanks for this. I learned a lot.
a conversation that is needed, thank you! can't wait to hear all of your thoughts.
Dr. Joy Cox you are in the spectrum of Dark Skin....
I was so confused when she said that.
I thought the same thing 🧐
I was surprised that she said that.
Ok! I was looking for this comment!
Might depend on context/perspective. I'm not light skinned and I don't feel I am, but for a while was treated as such when I was younger due to my familial and neighborhood tone composition. Might be her experience but IDK
Plan B only goes up to 175 lbs?!?!?! I am a size 4/6 and 155 lbs... that is absolute insanity. So many people with uteruses are excluded. I am truly appalled. Really surprised more ppl *aren’t* talking about the medical discrimination that happens. Thank you so much Kim for continuing to make these interviews.
ella is the drug we get prescribed for over 175 and it's a bit more expensive as I recall
What sizes are talking? I'm 156 lbs and a size 10
@@jackiemaldonado7777 US sizes. Might be a height difference
@@eliseweiland3133 I'm 5'6
@@jackiemaldonado7777 interesting, I am 5’7” but there’s also body composition to take into account! And this sounds weird but heavy bones run in my family 🤪
It's weird that Joy Cox doesn't consider herself dark skin when she's almost the same color as Danni...
Yes, I thought that was interesting. But it all depends on the color spectrum she's using.
I was surprised...her removing herself is very interesting.
I think she sees herself as chocolate brown and not liquorice black. And i think its about being sensitive to the fact that there are other darker skin women who suffer more. I dont think she thinks she is not dark skin because she perceives herself as lighter therefore better.
i was looking for this comment, i was fully invested in everything she was saying until that point.
i know it shouldn’t...but it now clouds her credibility..for me.
i felt like she was ‘othering’ herself or elevating herself from the rest of the community they had spent all the time discussing.
Very weird. And certainly interesting. She and Danni are basically the same foundation shade lol.
This conversation was cool. But let's be clear. Lizzo, like most other bigger women who are entertainment made her WHOLE campaign about being a big black girl. And saying big black girls can do anything skinner woman can do. And she was going to eat what she want, and do what she want. And she loves her size, and nobody can tell her anything. Blah blah blah... Now unsurprisingly she is losing weight, and now it's "I'm trying to be healthy", "I want to feel better", "I'm doing it for me".
To me she should have been honest from the jump. Noone truly LOVES being overweight, hence why MOST people try and lose weight. Unfortunately some people do it when it's damn near to late, and other people do it once they "want" a certain thing. So if it's for her to be more desirable.. than yeah it's for her, but ultimately she would get more deals being a smaller size. So this all a money move.
Same with Adele, Jennifer Hudson, Monique, Jazmin Sullivan, the other girl from Precious is even losing now.
All this "representation" seems to run away from the big girls once they get a little money and attention.
So in short she made her whole brand being big. Which was going to be a downhill slope regardless of what step she took. She should have just made her music her brand and ever even addressed her weight in a way that people can have a discussion.
She arguably should have created her platform in a different way, but she clarified that she went on a detox because she felt she had recently developed a more unhealthy lifestyle. She drank a lot, gained weight, and felt generally unhealthy and unhappy. She didn't drastically decrease in size or try to do so. She also worked with medical professionals to do create her diet. The way she presented the entire thing was problematic, but her approach wasn't to be more "desirable" to anyone but herself.
But maybe she changed her mind and feels differently. I can see how that disappoints fans, but she’s allowed to change
Let’s be clear, lizzo could’ve just been trying to be a musician but because she’s big that means something to everyone and she either had to buckle to the pressure and loose weight or embrace it and use it.
Right. People lie to themselves and others all the time. Lizzo does not like her physical self nor her physical habits, and would definitely choose to change if the opportunity presented itself in a great way. Most people are not upset by the physical state they are in, they are more affected by their levels of self efficacy to change productively and healthily.
Hmm based on your premise, couldn’t it be argued that fat people lose weight when they have access/resources to do so?
These guest speakers ACTUALLY made me think being Fat is bad. They both refuse to acknowledge that becoming super fat is a choice and it is an unhealthy choice which society should not actively promote.
Right! It's the gaslighting. Like being fat is a CHOICE. It's not the same as sexuality or race discrimination. I need them to stop. You sit on your ass all day and eat snacks throughout the day. We all here big people breath. We all have to slow down when going on tours because you tired....
@Ciara MilneI can't believe she said that shit 😏
Apparently, Lizzo is damned if she does and damned if she doesn’t. She’s been trying to get healthier and lose weight recently and is getting so much shit from people who thinks she’s “selling out.” Wtf???
Right? We often talk about how black women don't get to just be, we don't get to be human. This is no different. If she IS losing weight because of the benefits of being smaller...lets let her do that. She is human and I am sure she wants to be desired and deemed attractive by others like most of us do. Is it problematic? Maybe. Is it human? Absolutely. Let this girl be.
Fat women are projecting all of their insecurties on to her and it is not ok. If you are happy being fat? Then be happy! The outrage over what someone does to their body leads me to believe that they arent actually happy.
@@Everythingsoknow thank you I feel the same way let her be!
Yeah what THE ACTUAL FUCK
LOVE THIIS VIDEO THANK U
Im glad you had this discussion. I’m a new UA-camr with a few videos and I wanted to dive into this topic later on on my channel. I wanted to talk about my experience as a black woman with my weight gain and weight loss throughout the years.
I have a UA-cam channel that covers toxic traits in the beauty industry called PRETTY TOXIC . It is nrw and I have yet to post a video and I am working on my blog version of the video but it is about Weightloss Endorsements from celebrities and how unhealthy they are. Maybe if you drop you video sooner than me and they good points I can include it in there. I don't want a like for like subscription but just letting you know that I am researching the topic for the video.
Do it, I'd love to watch ❤️
thank you so much for this video! i learned a lot!
all the points made about accessibility are so so SO illuminating of the scale and unfairness of the problem, whatever ideal society any sort of furniture design is made to adress is unjustifiable for not adressing reality and in a way even affecting the perception of reality to the detriment of society! it is such an unfair standard to withhold respect in relation to health, inersectional overlap here with disability rights, over there we roll with body neutrality.
The thing u said about the comments going on medical rants is too real, the closest i've gotten to a compromise on that is that u never know whats going on with anybodys thyroid, which is a huge oversimplification but somehow noticing a trend in lactose tolerance for example can be observed without turning it into a value judgement but heavens help us we do the same with other bodily matters oh my 7_7 and if thats a persistent headache for me, who hasnt had to struggle with actually being fat, i can imagine being frustrated enough to limit one's social circle.
the only wiggle room i personally understand is how this humanist approach to it doesnt adress the very real capitalistic participation in causing health problems across the board.
i otherwise dont tolerate a single excuse about it, in fact i've had the fight with everyone family friends authority figures schoolmates co-workers about respecting fat people on principle since forever! all my life! yes even as a child! Because in all the things about society that need changing the one thing i didnt need convincing about was appearance; hollow as a criteria from which to derive value, and who people are as individuals will continue to be my priority in my efforts to recognising internalised bias, since arbitrary requirements to whether one is fully capable of empathising and understanding the fellow humanity of anybody is what makes up prejudice. Its dogma. Like its literally artificial, bodies will vary in countless specific ways and any generalisation is limited in its utility, when the whole point of interacting with a doctor is because systematic computing of variables does not solve nuanced subjective dynamic problems.i disagree with the very idea that fatness is wrong but first and foremost fatness exists and fatness deserves a voice in its own discussion!
Just here to thank you, Dr. Cox and Ms. Danni. Thank you for your continued courtesy in educating us on topics that affect marginalized communities. Keep up the good work ♥️ your content is incredibly valuable ♥️♥️♥️
It might be helpful to have some nutritional scientists/dietitians who are schooled in HAES on the channel. A lot of folks seem to be in their feelings about the "science denial" in this approach, despite the scientific research being conducted to further understand fatness.
Thank you so much for this conversation. Truly enlightening. I never considered the fact that desirability and respresentation only scratches the surface of the problem when access, opportunity, and basic safety are being ignored. Also, that point about Plan B blew my mind. I'm worrying about the possibility supreme court taking my right to the morning after pill away, when fat women have never had access to it. A priveledge check for me, for sure.
Been following Danni aka @Amapoundcake and she is a wealth of knowledge/experience on the subject. Im not a big girl but alot of the issues Danni talks about on her platform inspires all women to support one another and reject toxic beauty standards that are harmful to ALL women. I love her!!!!!!
Thank you Kim.
Thank you and the panelists for having this conversation. I learned a lot. Thank you again.
THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU
I'm going for promotion at work and WHEN I get it, I'm going to join your membership or support you on patreon, which would you prefer?
Patreon ❤️
Good luck!!!
Update, I got the promotion AND I've since got an even better job. I was true to my word and became a Patron and I'm loving it.
One thing I never got was where people were getting the idea that she trying to lose weight from. All she did was go on a temporary cleanse for her skin and because she wasn't feeling good at that time. It seems like people are projecting their fatphobia on to her in hopes of her becoming some weight loss advocate or something.
when i heard about body positivity, it had already got the “love is love” treatment and the crucial convo points about discrimination in health care environments, accessibility issues, all of that, was replaced with “fat is sexy”. since even that was a new thing to me, i ate that up.
now, i’m trying to reconstruct my values, no longer centering desirability and beauty and “fat is beautiful” rings so hollow.
thanks for this conversation, taught me a lot. love.
Great talk!
Damnnnn I did not know plan b doesn't work over 175lbs. That's nuts. I'm affected by fatphobia apparently and I'm not even fat, just tall. (The discussion about accomidations is great though I suppose there's some overlap with being tall since I was to large for chairs constantly in school and would leave with marks across my legs from the desk constantly sitting right on my legs, and I can't really fit in normal beds and can't afford a special long mattress and long sheets, pants aren't long enough, etc..) Fat discrimination is for sure worse though I don't want to derail the conversation.
Wonderful discussion. I feel grateful to have been introduced to Dr. Joy and Danni. I'm always excited to confront my own fatphobia, learn more about fat liberation, and especially the intersection of anti-Black racism and fatphobia.
This was a great talk
Megan Twerks all over the internet. N let's not get into when Miley was twerking... so cringy. Lizzo can't just live i guess. It's her body guys. If she wants to change it, let her. But we should love ourselves no matter what. N if you love her, you should love her no matter what too.
Well said
I get constant ads for Noom (crash diet program) and and a Fat Removal clinic- even ON THIS VIDEO! Diet culture is obnoxious.
I know right! Even when I tag them as irrelevant to me (im not going to fucking use it)/or inappropriate (sometimes its triggering) they still keep popping up. Fucking youtube
noom isn't a crash diet program. its designed to help people lose weight in a realistic way!
FINALLY! A nuanced conversation on the subject outside of the weight loss connotations.
Yup. I'm a trans guy, that looks fem. I have been always on the heavier side, but for a time I was down to a size 9/10. I remember how my family said how good I looked, and good for me, and I felt seen. I had more interactions with strangers, that weren't them yelling out a car door window that I was fat. I gained it back, and then some and. Yeah. I've seen what its like to be both average and fat, and skinnier does tend to make people treat you more like a person.
I love Danni!!! Thank you for putting me onto her ☺️
Lizzo gained more weight and was having GI issues. She’s not trying to be thin she’s alleviating pain. This wasnt about vanity.
Right. it’s literally for her health.
Before i start the vid..thank you so much for this video! I love all the topics you bring even when im not ready to hear them lol. Theyve really expanded my mind. Speaking of... I love your mind and you are a huge inspiration and role model to me! Hope youre doing well!
Detoxing is not diet. She said "safe detoxing". She said I am not detoxing for weight loss. As a fat black woman it's like fat positive activists want you to stay fat and shut up. I'm sorry eye roll...🙄😒😑. It's like being on a physical/nutritional journey is a taboo if you are body positive/pro fat body. She is body positive that means she is positive in ANY BODY SHE IS IN. Being body positive is all inclusive. Sorry it's bs imo. And I'm a size 18. It's like if your fat and attempting to do anything to alter your health,weight, size, shape is fat-phobic and your against your own people. Sounds like plus size people just using an excuse to hate on other fat people. Fat women should be able to do whatever the f they want with their bodies even losing weight without backlash. I do agree that we need different types of fat black bodies out there.
That's what I'm saying! If you're fat and you want to lose weight, why can't these activists just let them do that? She also had a medical professional supervising her! Like how many fat positive folks can say they have someone monitoring their weight gain or their life? Like someone else said in the comments, what's missing here are medical professionals.
great talk!
Love you Kimberly 🧡
There are some people that want off medications needed, when excessive weight causes your body and organs to malfunction.
What if I am lazy?? I still deserve respect, what's not clicking in people's heads
Just bought Dr. Cox’s book. I’m excited to read it.
“Fat liberation” vs “body positivity” has the same energy as “disabled” vs “differently abled.” Modern disability movements focus so much on desirability and people have a similarly strong association between disability and poor health- when being disabled or neurodivergent is NOT inherently unhealthy. Thank you so much for these videos, these are such valuable discussions!
Juicing cleanses have been around for literal decades, and diet culture has co-opted it, and exaggerated it to have impact things beyond its original scope, however, it never was a good permanent option for a healthy diet. When juice cleanse first became popular, they were simply about cleaning out your colon and giving your digestive system a chance to rest. They usually weren't recommended beyond 2-5 days because otherwise it would jeopardize your health. Diet culture is so insidious and manipulative. I'm old enough to remember a time when simply having a salad was considered a part of diet culture . Nowadays folks would look at you like you were wild if you tried to say a salad or a plant-based diet was a part of diet culture. I think we all have to keep an eye on how we're being asked to engage and interact with each other. It's more than just what happens to be the popular problem of the moment. We have to stay sharp and recognize how we're being manipulated and are conscripted to manipulate others into supporting fatphobia. Because the zeitgeist of the times will shift and the next thing you know, the idea you were supported gets twisted and stops serving it's original intent.
As a medical doctor a lot of the culture used to be that we over-focused on weight. I now teach medical students and the focus is more on healthy behaviors. With the cultural indoctrination, students aren't as rigorous in ascertaining the particular healthy/non-healthy behaviors that a "thin" patient has as opposed to a "fat" patient. They will be get a detailed diet history and in passing mention that the person smokes!! And we have a lot of good data on the dangers of tobacco smoking.
And it takes a lot to overcome that bias. If there is someone who exercises, has a balanced nutrition and sleeps well, that matters the most. I am a "straight-bodied" person (culturally I hate that term because my culture embraces fat bodies) and I am at high risk for diabetes, actually I have prediabetes and when I am trying to eat healthy to not get diabetes people focus on why I am eating that way because I have a "healthy" body. But what our bodies look like does not tell the majority of the story of our health and we need to move away from that.
And to the point that white supremacy stabs everyone in the back (to different degrees), when it comes to health, white americans have worse health outcomes across multiple facets when compared to citizens of similarly-incomed or middle-income countries; eventhough they have better health outcomes than black and brown americans.
I agree.
👏🏾 being thin doesn't mean being fit or healthy. Sometimes being thin is being malnourished therefore unhealthy. And we have our health issues who are most of the time dismissed because we kinda look healthy at the first glance based on WIRD standard.
Before and after pictures are problematic? Really? So people should not show their progress now?
those people in the video saying its problematic they want more women to stay fat, and fight for the fat acceptance movement. If lizoo losses weight other women might take notice and do the same. And also these people in the video act like being thinner isnt more attractive then being fat/obese. If i had a pill to make these women in the video be 60 pounds less they would take it in a heart beat.
@@grandcanyon2 ... You're a toxic mess. Go seek help.
You didn't even watch the video.
I think their point is that before/after pictures can be problematic because the “before” pictures are seen as “wrong” or “bad”. You can show your “progress” without them. Also, they discussed the problem with being invested in people’s “progress” in the first place.
Right! I’ve lost over 50 pounds since quarantine and I’ll be damned if I don’t post my before and after. My smile is the same in both pictures because I didn’t/don’t hate myself ( bigger or smaller).🤷🏾♀️
I love this . Representation is so true. I grew up thinking I was fat from family and also kids at school. I’ve always been tall and bigger than most ppl my age. Always been solid. Now I’m a “stallion”. 5,9’ , and 180s, with hips . Basically the shape ppl are buying and I can’t unsee the fat person I’ve always been told I was. Those same ppl that taunted me constantly compliment me now not realizing the damage they caused mentally.
Noone ever says to a thin person, “You can only be thin and accepted if you prove how healthy you are.”
That seems to me the only way the current bs body positivity movement will allow fat people in.
Such a good talk!