Questions about the TAS such as route choice, luck manipulation and so on can be asked in the comment section either in German or English. Also, please tell me what you would've liked to see and what you especially liked about this TAS. Potential improvements: - In stage 1, room 8 when killing the dudes it can be faster to move diagonally down with Goofy to kill the second dude faster. I lost all those frames through room loading times and this improvement was finally killed in the second frog room in stage 4. - In stage 2, room 7, there might be a good RNG in which you do not have to damage boost the green guy. However, I always got RNG were I had to damage boost. - In stage 2, room 9, the puzzle can be solved about another 20 frames faster. This gave me the worst RNG for the next room losing about 2 seconds. Thus, I used the strat that you can see in the video. If one can combine both fast versions, this will be abviously about 20 frames faster. - In stage 3, room 16, it can be faster to switch the routes of Max and Goofy and letting Goofy die in the next room about 7 frames before Max leaves the room. Doing so, Goofy loses two lives at once instead of one. Again, I failed to carry this improvement over due to worse RNG in the next rooms. - In stage 4, both frog rooms suck hard. Might be improvable with better RNG after skeleton-bossfight, which is even more luck-based than just manipulating RNG in normal rooms. - Stage 4 bossfight: again bad RNG for me. In each version of the fight, the green tapeworm moves horizontally first, which costs 21 frames. Vertical movement in the next rounds is about 7 frames faster than horizontal tapeworms. - Stage 5 bossfight: Pete gave me a decent RNG that is 105 frames faster than the old TAS. I tested a lot of different bossfights, but maybe it can be manipulated even better. Keep in mind: Pete has some invincibility frames, but can be hit with Goofy and Max at the same time, which saves one "being hit"-animation. A phase can be skipped if Pete gets hit by a bomb after he starts this phase. This is implemented by hitting Pete while jumping.
If I could play this again! So many fond memories! At 5:53, we would run onto the platform and hit the pirates with the pots just for the fun of it! LOL. I remember being extremely disappointed at the end because I wanted to see something spectacular happen. Fireworks... all the friends dancing, etc. oh well. Still great memories!
For the star block kicking puzzle at 0:50 into the TAS, I'm wondering if it (locally speaking, as other factors as e.g. RNG may ruin potential local time saves) would be faster to move to the left side of the upper most of the two star block on the right side of the screen at that time in order to kick it to the right at first and then kicking the remaining star block to the left and then upwards in order to end up with a situation in which all star blocks are in their correct places earlier. Separately from this, at the next star blocks kicking puzzle at 1:32, I wonder if it would be faster to approach the bottom left most star block with Goofy from beneath in order to kick it to the right, while Max would at first kick the top right most star block upwards (and would that way make use of the waiting time until Goofy kicked his 1st star block to the right), followed by Max kicking the 2nd right most star block downwards while Goofy kicks the remaining star block on the left side upwards, and then kicking with Max the downwards kicked star block over to the left to Goofy where Goofy can kick it upwards, followed by kicking the by Goofy to the right kicked star block upwards with Max while Goofy kicks the left central star block to the right, and then kicking the two central star blocks downwards with Goofy and/or Max, in whatever manner that gets them into position the earliest. At the star block puzzle around 3:26 into the TAS, I wonder if it could be faster (even though in this case enemy RNG seems to be involved) to move left with Goofy after he kicks that 1st star block to the right (in order to leave the at that point anyway already close to the shut door star block for the end), in preparation for doing all the kicks for the star block that is kicked downwards by the enemies to get it into the bottom left corner, so that Max (after being finished with the 1st star block) can do what Goofy does in this TAS (namely filling in the top right star block spot), with Goofy after being done with the bottom left star block spot moving to the door and finishing up the bottom right star block position while Max fills in the top right spot. However, given that Max doesn't have the hookshot, it may then get more problematic to kick the top star block towards its destination. At 4:18 (other than maybe for RNG or unavoidable waiting time) why are Goofy and Max crossing each other to go to the opposite directions? Wouldn't it be faster to have each of them go to the barrels that are closer to them?
Thanks for all this input. It has been quite some time since I worked on this TAS. If I remember correctly, I tested out your idea for the star puzzle at 0:50, which was just a few frames slower. Actually, I just tested it again and it appears to be about 4 frames slower. But this was just a quick test, so I keep it in mind for any actual improvements. Your idea for 1:32 also sounds very interesting, but unfortunately is quite slow. Problem is that kicking blocks is ridiculously slow. And you also have to keep in mind that the star blocks need some time to move to the new positions. This means that Goofy will have to wait after kicking his first block. In any case, neither Goofy nor Max can reach the star blocks in the middle in time. But still, very interesting find. The puzzle at 3:26 is actually super stupid. I know that there are faster solutions to this puzzle. Maybe actually the one you mentioned. I got one solution, which I do not remember in detail, that was about 30 frames or so faster. Because of the enemy actions, RNG changes frequently, which is very important for the next room. These barrels have to be on this pattern, because this is by far the fastest solution I found. It is 50(?) frames or so faster than the old TAS. Using a different, faster solution in the previous room, I got a pattern in the barrel room that was 102 frames slower... which sucks :D but yeah, there are definitely faster ways to do this puzzle. Also good find at 4:18. Goofy and Max deal a different amount of damage to enemies when throwing barrels. So I want Goofy to hit the boss to need less throws in total. It's actually really nice to see that even after nearly 2 years people still care about this video. So thanks a lot for your comment! Improving this TAS is still on my TODO-list, but there are other projects that come first^^
Great video! I'm actually very curious about some of the strats to try to replicate them on RTA runs at some extent. - Boss #2 (Fire Bug): By making him do that extended "sweep" with the torch you manipulate his RNG? - Boss #3 (Skeletons): That was probably my favorite part of the TAS. I'm very interested also to know if you can at some point manip them. We used to stay in the middle of the room to wait for the shurikens, but being closer to them seems a lot better in this video. - Stage 4, Waterfall Puzzle: How many frames you have to hit the last block and enter the loading zone to skip the screen freeze? - Pete: By saying "hitting him wit Max and Goofy at the same time" you mean on the same frame? And again thanks a lot for the video, it's very nice to see this great game pushed to its limits!
Thank you! - Fire Bug: yeah it is. I actually didn't pay attention to his RNG at that time. By forcing him to do this attack I skipped the attack where he throws torches at you or better to say changed his attack pattern to fire breathing, which is in fact a RNG manipulation. - Skeletons: I wasted so much time TASing this bossfight. In so many cases I got a really fast pattern up to the last 2-3 bones. Then no skeleton wanted to throw any... I hate them. xD So for RNG manipulation: your position in the room does not change WHEN the skeletons throw bones. It only changes WHERE those bones will land. There are about 3-5 different positions where bones can land for each attack pattern. The only things through which you can manipulate the skeletons is by picking up bones and by hitting them. It's easiest to understand this way: picking up bones changes the overall RNG. Hitting a skeleton with a bones can skip an attack of this skeleton, but does not change the attack pattern of the other skeleton. You can see this when I wait for the blue skeleton to throw the last bones. So RNG manipulation in this room is really bad. As a rule of thumb, don't hit one skeleton too often without hitting the other skeleton to avoid the skull throw attack. "Often" is about 4 times. - The waterfall puzzle has a 2 frame window. - Pete: well, Pete is strange. I experienced that I had to hit Pete with Goofy and Max on the same frame to make it count, but I also had a time where hitting him within 2 or 3 frames was sufficient. Pete has 56 HP. The fastest way is to hit him 4 times with Max and 8 times with Goofy: 4*4 damage + 5*5 damage = 56. Keep in mind that Max only deals 4 damage with bombs. With barrels he only deals 3 damage.
Very nice TAS! I'll try to incorporate some strats on my runs with Furlim! :D Some questions: - Do you know the memory address for the RNG value? A friend of mine is thinking of making a practice cart and this would be very useful. - At 10:03 (stage 4, bridge activation puzzle) whats the lenience for the "time stop" skip (aka exiting at the same time as the last block connects) ?
Thanks and good luck with your future runs! - RNG is stored in the following two addresses: 7E1A58 and 7E1A59. Might be interesting to do some research on those values, but I would expect RNG manipulation to be very hard in RTA. As far as I understood RNG, there are 3 possibilities where RNG changes: 1. some screen transitions, but definitely not all 2. picking up a barrel WITHOUT using the hook gun 3. enemy actions. This one is very tricky. When enemies change directions it does not change RNG when they do not follow you, but it changes when they were triggered by you before. Being triggered also counts as an action that changes RNG. It might be that each time the current "attack move" like running, turning around or throwing stuff changes, RNG changes as well. Also I think RNG changes might be somehow linked to the room you are in as enemies do the same changes to RNG as picking up a barrel does. However, if you enter a room e.g. with one less change to RNG, in most cases it is not possible to get the desired RNG value back by picking up one more barrel. This is really strange and I have to admit to not fully understanding it even now. :D - Waterfall puzzle has a 2 frame window to skip the time stop.
Thank you for the quick response! I see. so it seems RTA rng manipulation is hard for more than a couple of screens. By the way, have you made a RAM map of the game? I'd like to know the positions for the heart count of each player, and such.
Not really. I basically just used what Randil found out: tasvideos.org/GameResources/SNES/GoofTroop.html There are also a couple of useful RAM addresses. Additionally, I found some addresses for Boss HP: 00021C, 00021D are for Boss 1 (the same value) and 00026C, 00026D are for Boss 2 (also the same value). Those values are also used for canons.
![[TAS] SNES Disney's Goof Troop "2 players" by Randil & mmbossman in 16:36.57](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/MGu9oN3PkW8/mqdefault.jpg)
![[TAS] SNES Disney's Goof Troop "2 players" by Randil & mmbossman in 16:36.57](/img/tr.png)
![[TAS][SNES] Family Feud "RBTV%" by RaZNope](/img/n.gif)
Questions about the TAS such as route choice, luck manipulation and so on can be asked in the comment section either in German or English. Also, please tell me what you would've liked to see and what you especially liked about this TAS.
Potential improvements:
- In stage 1, room 8 when killing the dudes it can be faster to move diagonally down with Goofy to kill the second dude faster. I lost all those frames through room loading times and this improvement was finally killed in the second frog room in stage 4.
- In stage 2, room 7, there might be a good RNG in which you do not have to damage boost the green guy. However, I always got RNG were I had to damage boost.
- In stage 2, room 9, the puzzle can be solved about another 20 frames faster. This gave me the worst RNG for the next room losing about 2 seconds. Thus, I used the strat that you can see in the video. If one can combine both fast versions, this will be abviously about 20 frames faster.
- In stage 3, room 16, it can be faster to switch the routes of Max and Goofy and letting Goofy die in the next room about 7 frames before Max leaves the room. Doing so, Goofy loses two lives at once instead of one. Again, I failed to carry this improvement over due to worse RNG in the next rooms.
- In stage 4, both frog rooms suck hard. Might be improvable with better RNG after skeleton-bossfight, which is even more luck-based than just manipulating RNG in normal rooms.
- Stage 4 bossfight: again bad RNG for me. In each version of the fight, the green tapeworm moves horizontally first, which costs 21 frames. Vertical movement in the next rounds is about 7 frames faster than horizontal tapeworms.
- Stage 5 bossfight: Pete gave me a decent RNG that is 105 frames faster than the old TAS. I tested a lot of different bossfights, but maybe it can be manipulated even better. Keep in mind: Pete has some invincibility frames, but can be hit with Goofy and Max at the same time, which saves one "being hit"-animation. A phase can be skipped if Pete gets hit by a bomb after he starts this phase. This is implemented by hitting Pete while jumping.
If I could play this again! So many fond memories! At 5:53, we would run onto the platform and hit the pirates with the pots just for the fun of it! LOL. I remember being extremely disappointed at the end because I wanted to see something spectacular happen. Fireworks... all the friends dancing, etc. oh well. Still great memories!
Goof troop tas, otherwise known as goofy dies for nearly 16 minutes.
Great run! This is a very fun game to play co-cop!
6:35 - 6:58 I laughed so hard here! 🤣
For the star block kicking puzzle at 0:50 into the TAS, I'm wondering if it (locally speaking, as other factors as e.g. RNG may ruin potential local time saves) would be faster to move to the left side of the upper most of the two star block on the right side of the screen at that time in order to kick it to the right at first and then kicking the remaining star block to the left and then upwards in order to end up with a situation in which all star blocks are in their correct places earlier.
Separately from this, at the next star blocks kicking puzzle at 1:32, I wonder if it would be faster to approach the bottom left most star block with Goofy from beneath in order to kick it to the right, while Max would at first kick the top right most star block upwards (and would that way make use of the waiting time until Goofy kicked his 1st star block to the right), followed by Max kicking the 2nd right most star block downwards while Goofy kicks the remaining star block on the left side upwards, and then kicking with Max the downwards kicked star block over to the left to Goofy where Goofy can kick it upwards, followed by kicking the by Goofy to the right kicked star block upwards with Max while Goofy kicks the left central star block to the right, and then kicking the two central star blocks downwards with Goofy and/or Max, in whatever manner that gets them into position the earliest.
At the star block puzzle around 3:26 into the TAS, I wonder if it could be faster (even though in this case enemy RNG seems to be involved) to move left with Goofy after he kicks that 1st star block to the right (in order to leave the at that point anyway already close to the shut door star block for the end), in preparation for doing all the kicks for the star block that is kicked downwards by the enemies to get it into the bottom left corner, so that Max (after being finished with the 1st star block) can do what Goofy does in this TAS (namely filling in the top right star block spot), with Goofy after being done with the bottom left star block spot moving to the door and finishing up the bottom right star block position while Max fills in the top right spot. However, given that Max doesn't have the hookshot, it may then get more problematic to kick the top star block towards its destination.
At 4:18 (other than maybe for RNG or unavoidable waiting time) why are Goofy and Max crossing each other to go to the opposite directions? Wouldn't it be faster to have each of them go to the barrels that are closer to them?
Thanks for all this input. It has been quite some time since I worked on this TAS. If I remember correctly, I tested out your idea for the star puzzle at 0:50, which was just a few frames slower. Actually, I just tested it again and it appears to be about 4 frames slower. But this was just a quick test, so I keep it in mind for any actual improvements.
Your idea for 1:32 also sounds very interesting, but unfortunately is quite slow. Problem is that kicking blocks is ridiculously slow. And you also have to keep in mind that the star blocks need some time to move to the new positions. This means that Goofy will have to wait after kicking his first block. In any case, neither Goofy nor Max can reach the star blocks in the middle in time. But still, very interesting find.
The puzzle at 3:26 is actually super stupid. I know that there are faster solutions to this puzzle. Maybe actually the one you mentioned. I got one solution, which I do not remember in detail, that was about 30 frames or so faster. Because of the enemy actions, RNG changes frequently, which is very important for the next room. These barrels have to be on this pattern, because this is by far the fastest solution I found. It is 50(?) frames or so faster than the old TAS. Using a different, faster solution in the previous room, I got a pattern in the barrel room that was 102 frames slower... which sucks :D but yeah, there are definitely faster ways to do this puzzle.
Also good find at 4:18. Goofy and Max deal a different amount of damage to enemies when throwing barrels. So I want Goofy to hit the boss to need less throws in total.
It's actually really nice to see that even after nearly 2 years people still care about this video. So thanks a lot for your comment! Improving this TAS is still on my TODO-list, but there are other projects that come first^^
いつも悪役として起用されがちなピートが今回ヒロインなのがこのゲームの面白い部分
ちょいちょいグーフィーがゲームオーバーになることでマックスにアイテムを渡す動きが興味深い
Great video! I'm actually very curious about some of the strats to try to replicate them on RTA runs at some extent.
- Boss #2 (Fire Bug): By making him do that extended "sweep" with the torch you manipulate his RNG?
- Boss #3 (Skeletons): That was probably my favorite part of the TAS. I'm very interested also to know if you can at some point manip them. We used to stay in the middle of the room to wait for the shurikens, but being closer to them seems a lot better in this video.
- Stage 4, Waterfall Puzzle: How many frames you have to hit the last block and enter the loading zone to skip the screen freeze?
- Pete: By saying "hitting him wit Max and Goofy at the same time" you mean on the same frame?
And again thanks a lot for the video, it's very nice to see this great game pushed to its limits!
Thank you!
- Fire Bug: yeah it is. I actually didn't pay attention to his RNG at that time. By forcing him to do this attack I skipped the attack where he throws torches at you or better to say changed his attack pattern to fire breathing, which is in fact a RNG manipulation.
- Skeletons: I wasted so much time TASing this bossfight. In so many cases I got a really fast pattern up to the last 2-3 bones. Then no skeleton wanted to throw any... I hate them. xD So for RNG manipulation: your position in the room does not change WHEN the skeletons throw bones. It only changes WHERE those bones will land. There are about 3-5 different positions where bones can land for each attack pattern. The only things through which you can manipulate the skeletons is by picking up bones and by hitting them. It's easiest to understand this way: picking up bones changes the overall RNG. Hitting a skeleton with a bones can skip an attack of this skeleton, but does not change the attack pattern of the other skeleton. You can see this when I wait for the blue skeleton to throw the last bones. So RNG manipulation in this room is really bad. As a rule of thumb, don't hit one skeleton too often without hitting the other skeleton to avoid the skull throw attack. "Often" is about 4 times.
- The waterfall puzzle has a 2 frame window.
- Pete: well, Pete is strange. I experienced that I had to hit Pete with Goofy and Max on the same frame to make it count, but I also had a time where hitting him within 2 or 3 frames was sufficient. Pete has 56 HP. The fastest way is to hit him 4 times with Max and 8 times with Goofy: 4*4 damage + 5*5 damage = 56. Keep in mind that Max only deals 4 damage with bombs. With barrels he only deals 3 damage.
Very nice TAS! I'll try to incorporate some strats on my runs with Furlim! :D
Some questions:
- Do you know the memory address for the RNG value? A friend of mine is thinking of making a practice cart and this would be very useful.
- At 10:03 (stage 4, bridge activation puzzle) whats the lenience for the "time stop" skip (aka exiting at the same time as the last block connects) ?
Thanks and good luck with your future runs!
- RNG is stored in the following two addresses: 7E1A58 and 7E1A59. Might be interesting to do some research on those values, but I would expect RNG manipulation to be very hard in RTA. As far as I understood RNG, there are 3 possibilities where RNG changes:
1. some screen transitions, but definitely not all
2. picking up a barrel WITHOUT using the hook gun
3. enemy actions. This one is very tricky. When enemies change directions it does not change RNG when they do not follow you, but it changes when they were triggered by you before. Being triggered also counts as an action that changes RNG. It might be that each time the current "attack move" like running, turning around or throwing stuff changes, RNG changes as well.
Also I think RNG changes might be somehow linked to the room you are in as enemies do the same changes to RNG as picking up a barrel does. However, if you enter a room e.g. with one less change to RNG, in most cases it is not possible to get the desired RNG value back by picking up one more barrel. This is really strange and I have to admit to not fully understanding it even now. :D
- Waterfall puzzle has a 2 frame window to skip the time stop.
Thank you for the quick response!
I see. so it seems RTA rng manipulation is hard for more than a couple of screens.
By the way, have you made a RAM map of the game? I'd like to know the positions for the heart count of each player, and such.
Not really. I basically just used what Randil found out: tasvideos.org/GameResources/SNES/GoofTroop.html
There are also a couple of useful RAM addresses. Additionally, I found some addresses for Boss HP:
00021C, 00021D are for Boss 1 (the same value) and 00026C, 00026D are for Boss 2 (also the same value). Those values are also used for canons.
How come this never got submitted to TASVideos?
Goofy Dies
Nenhum BR :(
Tem outro BR no comentário ali mais antigo
@@MateusSouzaLima aeeeee
@@lucaspudim2853 bora zerar juntos qualquer dia
@@MateusSouzaLima uai bora, eu tô com 25:31 na run solo Max
@@lucaspudim2853 a gente faz em menos de 20 minutos jogando multiplayer. Chama lá no insta: mateus_sl1