A little help for those looking at Dragonbane. The boxset for Dragonbane contains the complete rules for the game, and has the same rulebook as the hardcover Core Rulebook. The difference is a softcover book vs a hardcover book, and the hardcover book contains some errata. If you purchase the corebox and the monster manual, you would not need to buy the hardcover core rulebook, unless you really wanted it.
Yeah, the starter set is really a good value. A softcover ruleboook, solo rules, the campaign is excellent, and those dice cost $20 MSRP on their own. The only downside the lack of GM screen as part of the starter box.
@@ideohazard Is it actually common to put a GM screen into a starter box? Most systems I know sell those seperately, especially since they're made of higher quality.
@@FamilyTableTop It has everything. Core rulebook, adventure book, cardboard minis, maps, solo rules, cards for Improvised Weapons, Treasure, Initiative, dice. You have everything you need to play. In my opinion Dragonbane the best value boxed rpg on the market. I believe it's so cheaply priced because they had such an incredibly successful kickstarter that they stocked a ton of games from the money they raised.
I highly recommend the box set for his birthday. It’s got standees, dice, cards, maps, complete rules, a campaign. It’s probably the best box set out there.
Great video! You stated everything I love about Dragonbane as well. I got the boxed set, which is jam packed with soooo much stuff. I am looking forward to the upcoming magic book!
The box set is great, it has everything you need...just grab and go. I'm hoping to run it for the kids at school and the pregens will be amazing for this. Glad you're having fun with this, thanks for sharing.
First, I totally agree with the suggestion for longer videos. Second, the Dragonbane box set is an incredible value for 40$: the map, the standees, the pregens, the treasure and initiative cards, etc. are perfect for a group of new players. Personally, I prefer a system that does not rely on skills and does not have the answers to problems on the character sheet (I'd like to use my judgment and call for a stat check when appropriate) but it does make running the game much easier.
I agree with your point about the skills. I think I prefer the Shadowdark system with open ended choices. This Dragonbane system, though, fit perfectly for what I needed a TTRPG to be for my friend. I would play it again in a heartbeat - but I would also probably prefer to run a game like Cairn, or Knave or Shadowdark… Have you found a favorite “non-skill” system?
What mechanics you need for a TTRPG: Social descriptions: Sights, Sounds, Smells, Feelings, and Names. Playable Races and any special abilities they might have. Starting Skills/Gear (classes) Combat:Turn order, Movement, Attack, Defense, Health and Skills. Items: Weapons, Armor, Travel Gear. Rules for magic is it's present. Loot (Fancy items) I'm sure I forgot some stuff on the list, but feel free to add to it anything that is essential to running a TTRPG.
Mechanics you need for a TTRPG: - Genre specific mechanic: Sanity for Horror, Honor for samurai/cavallier games, Light/Dark for Star wars games, etc. - Character specialty: Some mechanic that helps characters differ between each other (and provide roles) - Character damage/conditions: A mechanic that represent your character suffering some consequence for failing. - Randomness/Risk introduction: A mechanic that links the RNG with player choices.
I have been running games since the 80’s and Dragonbane is one of the best games systems I have found in a long time. For veterans out there, it is a simplified BRP derived game, that uses D20’s instead of d100’s, and has a brilliant initiative system [it’s so good, steal it for other games]. I love running this game and my table is full of veterans who also love it. I’m using it as a ‘generic’ system to run the Harn setting, and it works really well [if you don’t want the crunch of Harnmaster]. After Runequest my current favourite fantasy game.
@@FamilyTableTop ok….bit of history here…sorry this might take a while, but it is deserving of a proper answer. Runequest was released in 1978, and used what is now known as the Basic Roleplaying System [BRP], this core system was then also used by Chaosium for Call of Cthulhu, Stormbringer, Superworld, Rimgworld, Elfquest [soon to make a return as an rpg] and Pendragon, among others. Other games based on BRP from other manufacturers include Mythras, Delta Green [i think] and of course Dragonbane. Chaosium also publish the generic rules as ‘Basic Roleplaying’ in hardback, and it is an awesome book, capable of running any genre of setting you want. So, about Runequest, it is more complex than Dragonbane, more skills more magic, and a deeper combat system with its own, pretty unique method of initiative. I would recommend it as an end goal, the game you will all want to play for the rest of your lives. Its strong point [aside from a great and stable ruleset] is its worldbuilding and setting lore. The world of Glorantha, is one of the best realised settings in gaming, period. Rich in magic, history and mythology, with a setting that has been developed by Chaosium, and the RQ community for 46 years, this game is a wonder. That being said, your boys still look quite young, and it does have some adult themes , especially regarding Bronze Age fertility rites etc, that you might want to consider before diving in. But I’d definitely recommend it, and you can get a free QuickStart pdf for all of Chaosiums games from their website. So take a look. I love this game with a passion, I hope you guys find your way there eventually.
Big fan of Dragonbane and the box set is very nice. One of the best “all in the box” TTRPGS out there right now. Your tactical players might like the ‘Five Parsecs from Home’ and ‘Five Leagues from the Borderlands’ games. They are solo games, but I find they work just fine if you decide to referee the game for players and split their team of figures up between them. These games can also teach / support the building of game master skills with their procedures and random tables for inspiration.
@@BryanMullins the “Five” series games seemed really interesting and I had thought about learning those systems to play with more tactics minded friends… How complicated is the system?
@@FamilyTableTop I’m not very familiar with other “war game” situations, but I have found ‘Five Parsecs’ to be pretty easy to learn and use. Strange comparison but, it’s no more complicated than making a character in Dragonbane I’d say. It has a sort of two-part game flow. One part is the mission / skirmish / job which is the minis based skirmish part and the other is deciding what each crew member will do with their downtime. I’ve run myself through a fight and a downtime turn in about 2 hours on a Sunday afternoon. I’ve five or six turns for my solo game all told now. If you were going to run or referee it the game might stretch out a little bit time wise but 3 players (I was the ref and had 2 crew members and 2 players with 2 crew each) didn’t take us 2 hours for a full turn because I had extra hands to place terrain and the like.
I have played about 30 sessions of Dragonbane. It has become one of my favorite fantasy games and would play it any day of the week over 5e. When I ran DB it was spur of the moment and we used the pregen characters. If we play in the future the layers want to make their own characters. In my current game I play in we have a mix of pregen and player made characters.
@@FamilyTableTop I think it can work very well for campaigns. If I was to run a long term campaign with it, something that was going to be played for years, I would likely not have the players check to improve their skills at the end of each session. Instead I would have them do at milestones in the campaign. Our current game is being played that way and it works well IMO.
The core rulebook has enough monsters to get you started and they mostly use the 1d6 attacks. If you're buying Dragonbane the best value is the boxed set.
got the pdf for like 6 bucks a while ago when it was on special, still reading through it. like it so far have not played yet. also yes more long vids. I was chilling and painting mini's listening to you. keep up the good work. As others have said.. the box set and the Bestiary are all the rules. plus a ton more stuff. Get it for the kid as a gift. cause he then can tailor it to his families taste.
Big agree on roll under systems making it easier for new GMs to run. Whitehack, the Black Hack, the Black Sword Hack and Sharp Swords & Sinister Spells are all variations on it.
Dragonbane is a great system. I backed up on Kickstarter and got to play it at Gencon last year and had a blast. We had a kid at that game who I thought made the experience amazing as his Mallard Bard was using duck puns the entire game and had everyone laughing so hard.
@FamilyTableTop so Gencon happens normally the first week of August ( was1-4 this year) and takes place in Indianapolis IN. It is a board game/ tabletop focused convention, so you get to see all the new stuff coming out in those areas. I should also note this is not a small conversation. We has over 70k attendees this year. This year I picked up my copy of Shadowdark at Gencon as I missed it on Kickstarter, but because I grabbed it at Gencon I also got to meet and talk with the games creator Kelsey, which was awesome.
I GMed my first session last weekend and we all had a blast. I love this system! The random monster attacks, the clean mechanics, the Armour actually matters... So much fun! The initiative giving it so much combat depth. Cannot wait to see what my players will do with it 😁 Oh and we moved from EZD6 and then 40K Wrath and Glory.
@@FamilyTableTopUsed the setting from the book, I typically use Warhammer Old World but decided to use the default. Players loved it! Combat was exciting and fast. We had a character going down twice in two combats 😀 it was thrilling and exciting but ultimately fast and fun!
I think we have two more sessions worth to do in the box set campaign. It's been a great ride and honestly, one of the best values in gaming. You are going to have such a blast with it and the pre-gens ROCK. New campaign book coming very soon too. It's a great time to get into Dragonbane. Oh, and the combat is fast and interesting. I don't think I've had a boring, slow, fight in this game yet. Even with quite advanced PCs, fights are tense and we've nearly lost half the party a number of times. Armor makes sense. Parry and doge make sense. Skills advancement is a product of play and has an aspect of discovery to it. Yeah, the game has death saves and special abilities but, getting knocked into death saves means rolling for lasting injury after the fight. We've had a main fighter in bad shape for a week of in game time. It can be brutal. Special abilities running off a willpower pool of points means there is an action bank account in place of the "economy". Eventually, you run out of oopmh. Travel can be challenging too. Adventures are full of adventures not just murder math. Pushing a roll and taking a penalty in exchange is a great feature.
You mentioned a few mechanics that we barely explored - my players (and I) forgot all about roll pushing. After playing a game in this system, I just don’t understand why anyone would play DnD…
@@FamilyTableTop in their defense, most folks have not heard about Free League. Free league just brought Dragonbane back to life in this new edition. Previous versions had more in common with Runequest. Free League is, hands down, my favorite game company right now, followed closely by Goodman games (on ethos). Their production value is off the charts and the game play has been fantastic on everything I've tried from them. Seriously though, buying into this game is so much more worth doing than 5e.
@@FamilyTableTop lol many people I know have been saying something similar for years before Dragonbane came along. Even in the 80s, the only reason we played D&D (back then AD&D) was because it was the only game everyone knew. There are so many better games now.
Really glad to hear about all the DragonBane success. My weekly game is a bunch of TTRPG vets going back to the '80s we've been having a great time with DragonBane on a weekly basis since the kickstarter beta released in 2023. Level up suggestion -- ditch the questions from the book and ignore recording individual crits. Instead, record the total number of crits (both 1s and 20s) players rolled throughout the night and then allow all players to roll that total number times for improving skills. Limit players to improving any skill by +1 per session (i.e., no improving a skill 5 times in one session). The whole table gets more invested in crits, it kinda takes on a casino craps table vibe and we've found that the total number of crits pooled by all players often pretty close to the RAW questions + individual crits would have been. The starter set really has a lot to offer for a full campaign, we're about do about 50% homebrew content and 50% official Misty Vale adventure book.
@@FamilyTableTop That's the region where the Dragonbane core set adventure takes place. An ancient land over which a war was fought: Dragons vs. Demons. 800 years have passed and now goblins, humans, halflings, elves, etc. are returning to the Misty Vale to rediscover its dark secrets.
Nice homebrew for rolling on leveling up skills. Do you limit the skills they can roll on? For example do they need to have used that skill during the session?
Lol; Take a look through all of Free Leagues stuff! They have Dragonbane, The One Ring, Forbidden Lands, Mork Borg, Into the Odd, and Vaesen. A pretty crazy premium lineup tbh
Love this game! Trying to get my group to play, but they are all more into supers, soooo… another system on the shelf. So glad it’s made it into your sphere. Hopefully see some more from you on this one! Best wishes!
@@FamilyTableTop they are very much into Mutants & Masterminds. I do enjoy it myself, but wish it wasn’t so crunchy. Was trying to get them into the Cortex system (Marvel Heroic RPG), but they felt it leaned too much into the narrative side of things and the dice pool gymnastics didn’t help my argumemt for it. It’s probably similar to the experience you shared with your player, Steve. They want the crunch, but as I get older I’m finding it a bit tedious more often than not. Agree with you totally about Dragonbane. It gives you just enough of each approach. Excited to see how this game goes for you going forward! Thanks!
I got the nimble book and I really like the Action Point economy and as well the Spellcasting, reactions, and auto hits - nimble is Soooo much better than DnD. I think I like Dragonbane better than Nimble though… Do you have a game you play regularly?
lol - it was a really easy system to run. Did you get the boxed edition? Apparently the box version comes with the full rules and a bunch of other stuff.
@@FamilyTableTop I ordered the box set, yes, and the bestiary set of standees with the Bestiary book and the GM screen and the Quickstart Guide so my players could pass it around during character creation. And since I was getting all that I went ahead and bought the hardcover Rulebook to complete the entire collection. LOL.
I had the same character creation issues with a Wuxia RPG called Righteous Blood, Ruthless Blades. There are over 100 techniques to pick from, and their effects are not obvious at all based on their flowery names.
Welcome to the fold brother! I've been singing the praise of DB for a good while now! Do check out the setting... great adventures and it is not Conan like at all.
Super veteran here. Dragonbane is now my go to d20 system for all the reasons you mentioned and more. In fact, our company is designing a campaign for the system. Watching your videos is a rare, wholesome moment in a sea of complaining and negativity and false sincerity. Please keep going. Do you have a p. o. Box by any chance?
This is a win! Systems matter, as you stated in one of your other videos. I really thought about getting into Dragonbane for my solo play, though the "crunchy" combat system felt too offputting for me (at least from what I understood looking up reviews on UA-cam). I'm still thinking about it, but I already bought into Earthdawn 4th edition and really had fun with my first sessions. You kind of compared Shadowdark with Dragonbane, considerung the "crunch" or combat mechanics. What are your plans with the campaigns/games? Sticking with Shadowdark and its' narrative style, or switching to Dragonbane, picking up the campaign sort of where you left off?
Thank you for the question- I think we’ll stay in Shadowdark for now (maybe through the end of the year). My players like the world and story and system - I dont want to mess with things at the moment. But maybe we will play little one shots or start a new system at the end of the year.
The monster stat blocks are SO much better then D&D. Easier to read, compact and the random chart attacks always keeps them on their toes. And yes, the Boxset Rules and they have a free Quick start rules on Drive Thru Rpg with the PreGen and an adventure (one of the ones from the Boxset). You can also buy a Bestiary Standee set to fill out your monster and character army.
One strong preference I have in TTRPG design is narrative-first mechanics, where the character sheet and rules are not a list of buttons they can press to make things in the fiction happen, but rather a guideline for how to resolve uncertainties within the narrative; eg, I want to ride the owlbear, so I say "my character tries to jump on the owlbear's back and soothe it with soft words," instead of "can I roll to ride the owlbear?" In the latter, maybe a skill check is invoked, depending on the system, but in the former, the player and GM are asked to consider, in the fiction of this scene and this world and this character, does it make sense for my character to be able to do that? And if so, then it just happens. If not, then it doesn't happen. And if the outcome is uncertain, and there are stakes or consequences involved, then a mechanic like a dice roll is invoked. Examples of this style of play are many of the Powered by the Apocalypse RPGs, and my recent favorite, Mothership RPG. It might be harder for first time roleplayers to step into the shoes of their character and the fiction of the game initially, but I think it generally creates much more freedom of expression, depth of characterization (the player character isn't just a statblock), dramatic narrative, and encourages creative problem solving in a way that I think you seem to be excited by. The alternative method of looking at that character sheet and thinking "which of these finite things will I do" is hard to break out of, especially if the player's background for RPGs is modern D&D or exclusively video games, where that play style is exactly how the games are expected to be played and is heavily reinforced at most tables.
You have done a great job of describing the problem that we were having a lot at our tables - I think a change of system really helped my players to begin playing a TTrPG instead of something more like a video game. But the system can only go so far… How to you train your players to roleplay? Do you have any thoughts… I’ll probably make a video asking this question.
I have heard of a D&D home brew rule for skills. Add 2 x proficiency bonus + abilities bonus, roll under with a d20. I've also come across a D&D player defence, AC-9 is your defence modifier. Roll over the enemies passive attack, 10+attack bonus. Having said all that, too many D&D players don't like change. I also like looking at other systems.
In Cairn you roll under your attributes with a d20 for most actions. That's even simpler but wouldn't be satisfying for players who want crunch. There are so many D&D hacks.
@EpicEmpires-pb7zv Role under makes more sense to me. D&D Attributes are superfluous. PF2E RM is better with modifiers only. I also like Dice Pool mechanics, with degrees of success.
I think the bestiary is quite nice even for veteran GM's as even though it's fairly generic with its creature list it helps you convert a bunch of creatures from adventures in other games to the dragonbane system and how its monsters function.
yeah people tend to talk or think their way out of fights in Shadowdark because in a party of players with 3-5 HP a piece, you tend to explore any and all alternatives :p
@@FamilyTableTop not currently, my group right now is on the last leg of my ad&d 2nd edition campaign. By which point if we continue, we will run either shadowdark or D&D Basic/Expert. We tend to avoid modern rulesets that turn absolutely every conceivable character action into a pseudo-attack roll with two or more modifiers. Easier to run, easier to play. Though I may modify Shadowdark to give it a less macabre atmosphere (but keep the danger)
You didn't mention the card initiative much in the review. I was curious whether the players swapped cards with each other or monsters and how they liked that system. It's always a nailbiter for us when we all pull cards > 5 and the monsters pull 1-3.
We only really messed with the Swapping initiative later in the fight because I didn’t want to overwhelm my players - it came up once where one of my players swapped with an NPC. Can players swap their initiative with an enemy?
@@FamilyTableTop Players can swap their lower number for a higher number. This allows them do delay movement & action in order for the monster to go first, giving the player a chance to parry/evade or just hold out hope that the D6 rolls in their favor.
For what its worth, when we create characters we roll 4d6 down the line swap any 2 at the end, starting skillls equal half your ability, pick 10 skills (adult) to get a +5 bonus, then choose either chain mail with weapon/shield, or light armor with weapon and bow. That gets added to torch, 4 food, and 1d6 silver, only ability is kin ability. We like playing deadly games no in depth character creation takes 3 minutes, start pretty average (no Gandalf) and develop them further as they start surviving stuff.
@@satori2890 we did not have any casters and none of the enemies were casters. That’s a good point though - I would like to cover the spell casting in the game
A Quick caveat, I'm Swedish, so if any rules term is wrong below it is because I own the game in Swedish and the natural translation of a term isn't Always the most flavourfull...or free of risks of lawsuits… The Magic system in Dragonbane is pretty simple to get a hang of. The core rules have Three magic schools. When you build a Magic-User (the only profession that can cast spells from Creation, as a balancing factor they don't get any heroic abilities to start out with as they get magic instead) you pick school and get a number of spells from said school. Dragonbane doesn't use spellslots, it uses the willpower pool (same pool as non-magic users use to Power their heroic abilities), each casting Costs a number of willpower Points depending on the spellevel and if you want to Power up the spell (more damage, bigger effect, longer effect etc.). The system also uses "roll to cast", ie. you need to pass a Spellcraft check to get the spell to work, this works as any skill d20, roll under your Spellcasting skill to succeed. For extra fun and risk, there is a fumble table should you roll a 20 on your casting roll, I had a wizard forget how to person for a specified time once. The powerlevel of magic is lower then in D&D5e and the number of spells is much lower. Over all I like the magic system a lot. The way spells work you can give a scroll of a spell as loot and your wizard can study it, make a spellcasting roll and now he knows that spell. The number of magic school in the core rules are a bit limited (Three in total I think), but Free League will be releasing an expansion to the rules during 2025 with more spells and more magic schools.
I would like to talk to you if you have the time. I am the Ambassador for the upcoming film/documentary "50 Years of Fantasy" the 50th anniversary of D&D and looking for Creators and Influencers in our community.
To me the Mallard and Wolfkin have more personality than the usual “demi-human” fairy-tale peoples found in standard fantasy. Which is what I’m looking for.
I look at DCC every time I go to the game store. 😂 Jokes aside, I haven’t gotten it yet mostly cause I have a few systems to look at - it’s high on my list. Is DCC a system you like?
@@FamilyTableTop It's a good system. I only mention it because character creation and play is super easy. In fact they sell scratch off character sheets that you can just hand people and they scratch them off and play. My players loved it. I don't currently play it now though. I am search for a system to "put my flag" in so to say and nothing has stuck with me yet.
If you think 5e is complicated then I'd hate to see how Landon's dad would be in a 3.5 or even an AD&D game. Doesn't sound to me like the problem was with D&D, the system or even your DM style. Sounds like a player problem to me
@@ArielCarmona oh for sure - but he’s also my friend and I’m interested in finding a system that he enjoys. I absolutely hate 5e so can understand his frustration- at the same time I can understand that you like 5e, and that’s fine with me too.
No offense, but 5e comparatively speaking is a cakewalk compared to OSR games. Also no offense but I can't understand why game developers keep dumbing down games. It's like players don't want to critically think anymore. It's kinda sad
@@FamilyTableTop 4e was more tactical and if you like tactical play, that version was the one to play. The critical thinking came in more in OSR type games
One Page Rules: free, universal, wargaming rules. Comes highly recommended by many frustrated/retired Warhammer 40k players 😅 I think you could basically let GI Joe fight a Furby with it.
@@FamilyTableTop Right now, for a D20 fantasy game, it is Tales of Argosa. Printed out the PDF and should have the HC by Christmas I believe (Kickstarter). Modern game mechanics but with an OSR feel and tone. Can easily adapt modules and monsters from all the D&D editions and any OSR game. Characters can be “customized” or even multi-classed in a simple way with a simple skill and background system and “Unique Features” that can basically be any Feat you want that you can use from any other game as long as the DM okays it. The “Exploits” system in combat is a more open ended version of Mighty Deeds from Dungeon Crawl Classics. Oh yeah plus it had levelless spells and magic can corrupt your character or have a wild magic like effect. Just hits the sweet spot for me and my players.
A little help for those looking at Dragonbane. The boxset for Dragonbane contains the complete rules for the game, and has the same rulebook as the hardcover Core Rulebook. The difference is a softcover book vs a hardcover book, and the hardcover book contains some errata. If you purchase the corebox and the monster manual, you would not need to buy the hardcover core rulebook, unless you really wanted it.
@@KraftyMattKraft thank you for clarifying this - I wasn’t sure which rules were included.
The hardcover book also has a new adventure location that is not in the soft cover book.
@@Decado1628 that’s right. The Robber Knights keep… I’m not sure I’d get the hardcover book just for it though…
Yeah, the starter set is really a good value. A softcover ruleboook, solo rules, the campaign is excellent, and those dice cost $20 MSRP on their own. The only downside the lack of GM screen as part of the starter box.
@@ideohazard Is it actually common to put a GM screen into a starter box? Most systems I know sell those seperately, especially since they're made of higher quality.
The box is not a starter set - it's the complete game.
Yeah, I had no idea. I thought the starter was like the Warhammer or DnD starter…
@@FamilyTableTop It has everything. Core rulebook, adventure book, cardboard minis, maps, solo rules, cards for Improvised Weapons, Treasure, Initiative, dice. You have everything you need to play. In my opinion Dragonbane the best value boxed rpg on the market.
I believe it's so cheaply priced because they had such an incredibly successful kickstarter that they stocked a ton of games from the money they raised.
@@EpicEmpires-pb7zvyou have to respect that attitude ❤
I highly recommend the box set for his birthday. It’s got standees, dice, cards, maps, complete rules, a campaign. It’s probably the best box set out there.
Definitely this! This box is ridiculously packed full of stuff. Sooo much value for the money!
If you don’t have the box set, I cannot recommend it enough!
Great video! You stated everything I love about Dragonbane as well. I got the boxed set, which is jam packed with soooo much stuff. I am looking forward to the upcoming magic book!
That’s right! I forgot about the magic book. When does it come out?
The box set is great, it has everything you need...just grab and go. I'm hoping to run it for the kids at school and the pregens will be amazing for this. Glad you're having fun with this, thanks for sharing.
@@spikepit1 what age are the kids at school?
@@FamilyTableTop 11-16
I said it, great video brother. Keep up the great work! This is exactly what I was hoping for, god bless!
@@mariodiaz2114 thank you for the suggestion! I really appreciate your encouragement during the live stream.
God bless you as well.
First, I totally agree with the suggestion for longer videos. Second, the Dragonbane box set is an incredible value for 40$: the map, the standees, the pregens, the treasure and initiative cards, etc. are perfect for a group of new players. Personally, I prefer a system that does not rely on skills and does not have the answers to problems on the character sheet (I'd like to use my judgment and call for a stat check when appropriate) but it does make running the game much easier.
I agree with your point about the skills. I think I prefer the Shadowdark system with open ended choices. This Dragonbane system, though, fit perfectly for what I needed a TTRPG to be for my friend.
I would play it again in a heartbeat - but I would also probably prefer to run a game like Cairn, or Knave or Shadowdark…
Have you found a favorite “non-skill” system?
@FamilyTableTop I tried answering twice but my comment gets deleted. My favorite is currently Shadowdark with my custom hacks.
Your fun is the most important thing Glad you found a game that works for your group.
Sounds like a great experience! It's awesome when you find a game that just hits all the things you want it to.
Such a wholesome story of trying to give some good times to Steven
@@StanNotSoSaint thank you. I’m really happy that he liked the game.
What mechanics you need for a TTRPG:
Social descriptions: Sights, Sounds, Smells, Feelings, and Names.
Playable Races and any special abilities they might have.
Starting Skills/Gear (classes)
Combat:Turn order, Movement, Attack, Defense, Health and Skills.
Items: Weapons, Armor, Travel Gear.
Rules for magic is it's present.
Loot (Fancy items)
I'm sure I forgot some stuff on the list, but feel free to add to it anything that is essential to running a TTRPG.
Mechanics you need for a TTRPG:
- Genre specific mechanic: Sanity for Horror, Honor for samurai/cavallier games, Light/Dark for Star wars games, etc.
- Character specialty: Some mechanic that helps characters differ between each other (and provide roles)
- Character damage/conditions: A mechanic that represent your character suffering some consequence for failing.
- Randomness/Risk introduction: A mechanic that links the RNG with player choices.
You covered a lot of things
@@FamilyTableTop We missed the "Progression Mechanic" which is usually dubbed "level up".
I have been running games since the 80’s and Dragonbane is one of the best games systems I have found in a long time. For veterans out there, it is a simplified BRP derived game, that uses D20’s instead of d100’s, and has a brilliant initiative system [it’s so good, steal it for other games]. I love running this game and my table is full of veterans who also love it. I’m using it as a ‘generic’ system to run the Harn setting, and it works really well [if you don’t want the crunch of Harnmaster]. After Runequest my current favourite fantasy game.
@@ElwoodShort could you tell me a little bit about Runequest - is it similar to Dragonbane? How does it play?
@@FamilyTableTop ok….bit of history here…sorry this might take a while, but it is deserving of a proper answer. Runequest was released in 1978, and used what is now known as the Basic Roleplaying System [BRP], this core system was then also used by Chaosium for Call of Cthulhu, Stormbringer, Superworld, Rimgworld, Elfquest [soon to make a return as an rpg] and Pendragon, among others. Other games based on BRP from other manufacturers include Mythras, Delta Green [i think] and of course Dragonbane. Chaosium also publish the generic rules as ‘Basic Roleplaying’ in hardback, and it is an awesome book, capable of running any genre of setting you want. So, about Runequest, it is more complex than Dragonbane, more skills more magic, and a deeper combat system with its own, pretty unique method of initiative. I would recommend it as an end goal, the game you will all want to play for the rest of your lives. Its strong point [aside from a great and stable ruleset] is its worldbuilding and setting lore. The world of Glorantha, is one of the best realised settings in gaming, period. Rich in magic, history and mythology, with a setting that has been developed by Chaosium, and the RQ community for 46 years, this game is a wonder. That being said, your boys still look quite young, and it does have some adult themes , especially regarding Bronze Age fertility rites etc, that you might want to consider before diving in. But I’d definitely recommend it, and you can get a free QuickStart pdf for all of Chaosiums games from their website. So take a look. I love this game with a passion, I hope you guys find your way there eventually.
This game rocks. The boxset is one of the best deals in the TTRPG landscape, full stop.
Big fan of Dragonbane and the box set is very nice. One of the best “all in the box” TTRPGS out there right now.
Your tactical players might like the ‘Five Parsecs from Home’ and ‘Five Leagues from the Borderlands’ games. They are solo games, but I find they work just fine if you decide to referee the game for players and split their team of figures up between them. These games can also teach / support the building of game master skills with their procedures and random tables for inspiration.
@@BryanMullins the “Five” series games seemed really interesting and I had thought about learning those systems to play with more tactics minded friends…
How complicated is the system?
@@FamilyTableTop I’m not very familiar with other “war game” situations, but I have found ‘Five Parsecs’ to be pretty easy to learn and use. Strange comparison but, it’s no more complicated than making a character in Dragonbane I’d say.
It has a sort of two-part game flow. One part is the mission / skirmish / job which is the minis based skirmish part and the other is deciding what each crew member will do with their downtime. I’ve run myself through a fight and a downtime turn in about 2 hours on a Sunday afternoon. I’ve five or six turns for my solo game all told now.
If you were going to run or referee it the game might stretch out a little bit time wise but 3 players (I was the ref and had 2 crew members and 2 players with 2 crew each) didn’t take us 2 hours for a full turn because I had extra hands to place terrain and the like.
Great video and a awesome game. Much love for Dragon Bane
@@stefanatic82 thank you so much.
I have played about 30 sessions of Dragonbane. It has become one of my favorite fantasy games and would play it any day of the week over 5e. When I ran DB it was spur of the moment and we used the pregen characters. If we play in the future the layers want to make their own characters. In my current game I play in we have a mix of pregen and player made characters.
That’s really helpful to hear - so the system works well for campaigns? Have you needed to add or subtract anything rules wise?
@@FamilyTableTop I think it can work very well for campaigns. If I was to run a long term campaign with it, something that was going to be played for years, I would likely not have the players check to improve their skills at the end of each session. Instead I would have them do at milestones in the campaign. Our current game is being played that way and it works well IMO.
Now i want it! Sounds more fun than Nimble, and the Bestiary sounds AWESOME.
A bunch of UA-camrs seem to agree with you.
Me too
The core rulebook has enough monsters to get you started and they mostly use the 1d6 attacks. If you're buying Dragonbane the best value is the boxed set.
Thank you for this Video Christian, Dragonbane is good FUN.
The longer format was entertaining 🧙♂️🧜♀️🦉
Thank you. I appreciate your kind encouragement.
Sometimes simple is better.
If the game works for you and your players that is all that matters.
Good video
I'm happy you liked the game. I always tell others, this is my favorite version of D&D.
@@finderski well said - I totally agree.
Swede replies: what D&D? :D
got the pdf for like 6 bucks a while ago when it was on special, still reading through it. like it so far have not played yet. also yes more long vids. I was chilling and painting mini's listening to you. keep up the good work. As others have said.. the box set and the Bestiary are all the rules. plus a ton more stuff. Get it for the kid as a gift. cause he then can tailor it to his families taste.
@@dagdamar2000 not a bad idea… I’m not sure it would be a system his mom or sister would like.
Big agree on roll under systems making it easier for new GMs to run. Whitehack, the Black Hack, the Black Sword Hack and Sharp Swords & Sinister Spells are all variations on it.
I love roll under systems. They're so much more intuitive for the GM and players.
Dragonbane is a great system. I backed up on Kickstarter and got to play it at Gencon last year and had a blast. We had a kid at that game who I thought made the experience amazing as his Mallard Bard was using duck puns the entire game and had everyone laughing so hard.
That sounds so fun.
Could you tell me a little bit about Gencon? Where is it, when is it?
Do you go to conventions often?
@FamilyTableTop so Gencon happens normally the first week of August ( was1-4 this year) and takes place in Indianapolis IN. It is a board game/ tabletop focused convention, so you get to see all the new stuff coming out in those areas. I should also note this is not a small conversation. We has over 70k attendees this year.
This year I picked up my copy of Shadowdark at Gencon as I missed it on Kickstarter, but because I grabbed it at Gencon I also got to meet and talk with the games creator Kelsey, which was awesome.
@@zyronos8292 that sounds really fun! I think I’d like to go next year.
Love the duck puns playing Dragonbane. It really never gets old.
@@ideohazard and the fact he was a bard just added to his play.
I GMed my first session last weekend and we all had a blast. I love this system! The random monster attacks, the clean mechanics, the Armour actually matters... So much fun! The initiative giving it so much combat depth. Cannot wait to see what my players will do with it 😁
Oh and we moved from EZD6 and then 40K Wrath and Glory.
What did your players think of the game?
What setting did you choose?
@@FamilyTableTopUsed the setting from the book, I typically use Warhammer Old World but decided to use the default.
Players loved it! Combat was exciting and fast. We had a character going down twice in two combats 😀 it was thrilling and exciting but ultimately fast and fun!
I think we have two more sessions worth to do in the box set campaign. It's been a great ride and honestly, one of the best values in gaming. You are going to have such a blast with it and the pre-gens ROCK. New campaign book coming very soon too. It's a great time to get into Dragonbane.
Oh, and the combat is fast and interesting. I don't think I've had a boring, slow, fight in this game yet. Even with quite advanced PCs, fights are tense and we've nearly lost half the party a number of times. Armor makes sense. Parry and doge make sense. Skills advancement is a product of play and has an aspect of discovery to it. Yeah, the game has death saves and special abilities but, getting knocked into death saves means rolling for lasting injury after the fight. We've had a main fighter in bad shape for a week of in game time. It can be brutal. Special abilities running off a willpower pool of points means there is an action bank account in place of the "economy". Eventually, you run out of oopmh. Travel can be challenging too. Adventures are full of adventures not just murder math.
Pushing a roll and taking a penalty in exchange is a great feature.
You mentioned a few mechanics that we barely explored - my players (and I) forgot all about roll pushing.
After playing a game in this system, I just don’t understand why anyone would play DnD…
@@FamilyTableTop in their defense, most folks have not heard about Free League. Free league just brought Dragonbane back to life in this new edition. Previous versions had more in common with Runequest.
Free League is, hands down, my favorite game company right now, followed closely by Goodman games (on ethos). Their production value is off the charts and the game play has been fantastic on everything I've tried from them.
Seriously though, buying into this game is so much more worth doing than 5e.
@@FamilyTableTop lol many people I know have been saying something similar for years before Dragonbane came along. Even in the 80s, the only reason we played D&D (back then AD&D) was because it was the only game everyone knew. There are so many better games now.
That attack table seems awesome. Even just the idea of having a semi-randomized attack table on hand seems to useful.
It’s really nice.
Dragonbane is a fantastic product
@@joelpeterson4997 agreed
Great longer form content. Keep up the good work! :)
Thank you so much.
Really glad to hear about all the DragonBane success. My weekly game is a bunch of TTRPG vets going back to the '80s we've been having a great time with DragonBane on a weekly basis since the kickstarter beta released in 2023.
Level up suggestion -- ditch the questions from the book and ignore recording individual crits.
Instead, record the total number of crits (both 1s and 20s) players rolled throughout the night and then allow all players to roll that total number times for improving skills. Limit players to improving any skill by +1 per session (i.e., no improving a skill 5 times in one session). The whole table gets more invested in crits, it kinda takes on a casino craps table vibe and we've found that the total number of crits pooled by all players often pretty close to the RAW questions + individual crits would have been.
The starter set really has a lot to offer for a full campaign, we're about do about 50% homebrew content and 50% official Misty Vale adventure book.
@@ideohazard that’s a great idea for the leveling system. Thank you for sharing.
@@ideohazard what is the Misty Vale?
@@FamilyTableTop That's the region where the Dragonbane core set adventure takes place. An ancient land over which a war was fought: Dragons vs. Demons. 800 years have passed and now goblins, humans, halflings, elves, etc. are returning to the Misty Vale to rediscover its dark secrets.
@@FamilyTableTop It's been a lot more exciting than answering the same questions week after week, that's for sure.
Nice homebrew for rolling on leveling up skills. Do you limit the skills they can roll on? For example do they need to have used that skill during the session?
Lol; Take a look through all of Free Leagues stuff! They have Dragonbane, The One Ring, Forbidden Lands, Mork Borg, Into the Odd, and Vaesen. A pretty crazy premium lineup tbh
...Blade Runner, Alien, The Walking Dead, Twilight 2000, Symbaroum, Tales from The Loop, Mutant Year Zero and Coriolis
Love this game! Trying to get my group to play, but they are all more into supers, soooo… another system on the shelf. So glad it’s made it into your sphere. Hopefully see some more from you on this one! Best wishes!
Thank you. What is the game system that your players want to play for a Super setting?
@@FamilyTableTop they are very much into Mutants & Masterminds. I do enjoy it myself, but wish it wasn’t so crunchy. Was trying to get them into the Cortex system (Marvel Heroic RPG), but they felt it leaned too much into the narrative side of things and the dice pool gymnastics didn’t help my argumemt for it. It’s probably similar to the experience you shared with your player, Steve. They want the crunch, but as I get older I’m finding it a bit tedious more often than not. Agree with you totally about Dragonbane. It gives you just enough of each approach. Excited to see how this game goes for you going forward! Thanks!
Yeah, pre gens, especially for a one shot, are such a good idea.
So I was at a convention and I was trying as many new systems as possible. This was the best one out of the set. But I want to try out Nimble.
I got the nimble book and I really like the Action Point economy and as well the Spellcasting, reactions, and auto hits - nimble is Soooo much better than DnD.
I think I like Dragonbane better than Nimble though…
Do you have a game you play regularly?
@@FamilyTableTop I'm a 5e guy, mostly because that's where the players are. Was looking at nimble to speed up combat.
Between the live stream and this video it convinced me to order the game. So, Free League, credit this guy with a sale.
lol - it was a really easy system to run. Did you get the boxed edition? Apparently the box version comes with the full rules and a bunch of other stuff.
@@FamilyTableTop I ordered the box set, yes, and the bestiary set of standees with the Bestiary book and the GM screen and the Quickstart Guide so my players could pass it around during character creation. And since I was getting all that I went ahead and bought the hardcover Rulebook to complete the entire collection. LOL.
I had the same character creation issues with a Wuxia RPG called Righteous Blood, Ruthless Blades. There are over 100 techniques to pick from, and their effects are not obvious at all based on their flowery names.
What is a Wuxia RPG?
Welcome to the fold brother! I've been singing the praise of DB for a good while now! Do check out the setting... great adventures and it is not Conan like at all.
How do I get a setting book? Is there a campaign that establishes the world?
It's all in the Adventure book that comes in the box set .@@FamilyTableTop
Super veteran here. Dragonbane is now my go to d20 system for all the reasons you mentioned and more. In fact, our company is designing a campaign for the system.
Watching your videos is a rare, wholesome moment in a sea of complaining and negativity and false sincerity. Please keep going.
Do you have a p. o. Box by any chance?
I do, could you shoot me an Email?
Eremimage@gmail.com
Any chance I could take a look at your campaign when it comes out?
@@FamilyTableTopthat’s part def going to happen. Email coming brother!
This is a win! Systems matter, as you stated in one of your other videos. I really thought about getting into Dragonbane for my solo play, though the "crunchy" combat system felt too offputting for me (at least from what I understood looking up reviews on UA-cam). I'm still thinking about it, but I already bought into Earthdawn 4th edition and really had fun with my first sessions.
You kind of compared Shadowdark with Dragonbane, considerung the "crunch" or combat mechanics. What are your plans with the campaigns/games? Sticking with Shadowdark and its' narrative style, or switching to Dragonbane, picking up the campaign sort of where you left off?
Thank you for the question- I think we’ll stay in Shadowdark for now (maybe through the end of the year). My players like the world and story and system - I dont want to mess with things at the moment.
But maybe we will play little one shots or start a new system at the end of the year.
The monster stat blocks are SO much better then D&D. Easier to read, compact and the random chart attacks always keeps them on their toes. And yes, the Boxset Rules and they have a free Quick start rules on Drive Thru Rpg with the PreGen and an adventure (one of the ones from the Boxset). You can also buy a Bestiary Standee set to fill out your monster and character army.
One strong preference I have in TTRPG design is narrative-first mechanics, where the character sheet and rules are not a list of buttons they can press to make things in the fiction happen, but rather a guideline for how to resolve uncertainties within the narrative; eg, I want to ride the owlbear, so I say "my character tries to jump on the owlbear's back and soothe it with soft words," instead of "can I roll to ride the owlbear?" In the latter, maybe a skill check is invoked, depending on the system, but in the former, the player and GM are asked to consider, in the fiction of this scene and this world and this character, does it make sense for my character to be able to do that? And if so, then it just happens. If not, then it doesn't happen. And if the outcome is uncertain, and there are stakes or consequences involved, then a mechanic like a dice roll is invoked. Examples of this style of play are many of the Powered by the Apocalypse RPGs, and my recent favorite, Mothership RPG. It might be harder for first time roleplayers to step into the shoes of their character and the fiction of the game initially, but I think it generally creates much more freedom of expression, depth of characterization (the player character isn't just a statblock), dramatic narrative, and encourages creative problem solving in a way that I think you seem to be excited by.
The alternative method of looking at that character sheet and thinking "which of these finite things will I do" is hard to break out of, especially if the player's background for RPGs is modern D&D or exclusively video games, where that play style is exactly how the games are expected to be played and is heavily reinforced at most tables.
You have done a great job of describing the problem that we were having a lot at our tables - I think a change of system really helped my players to begin playing a TTrPG instead of something more like a video game.
But the system can only go so far…
How to you train your players to roleplay? Do you have any thoughts… I’ll probably make a video asking this question.
I have heard of a D&D home brew rule for skills. Add 2 x proficiency bonus + abilities bonus, roll under with a d20. I've also come across a D&D player defence, AC-9 is your defence modifier. Roll over the enemies passive attack, 10+attack bonus. Having said all that, too many D&D players don't like change. I also like looking at other systems.
@@TheNanoNinja this is not a homebrew for DnD… this is a whole different system.
In Cairn you roll under your attributes with a d20 for most actions. That's even simpler but wouldn't be satisfying for players who want crunch. There are so many D&D hacks.
@EpicEmpires-pb7zv Role under makes more sense to me. D&D Attributes are superfluous. PF2E RM is better with modifiers only. I also like Dice Pool mechanics, with degrees of success.
Maybe in a future video you could share more of your thoughts camparing Shadowdark to Dragonbane?
I would love to. Thank you for the suggestion.
I think the bestiary is quite nice even for veteran GM's as even though it's fairly generic with its creature list it helps you convert a bunch of creatures from adventures in other games to the dragonbane system and how its monsters function.
yeah people tend to talk or think their way out of fights in Shadowdark because in a party of players with 3-5 HP a piece, you tend to explore any and all alternatives :p
That is very true.
Are you playing Shadowdark?
@@FamilyTableTop not currently, my group right now is on the last leg of my ad&d 2nd edition campaign. By which point if we continue, we will run either shadowdark or D&D Basic/Expert.
We tend to avoid modern rulesets that turn absolutely every conceivable character action into a pseudo-attack roll with two or more modifiers. Easier to run, easier to play. Though I may modify Shadowdark to give it a less macabre atmosphere (but keep the danger)
@@Knightfall8 I have definitely toned down the edginess - the campaign my players are in is not grim dark.
It’s not a starter box, it has the full rules book just in paperback
Also six players is just a lot. You have a bit GM task on your hands regardless of system.
You didn't mention the card initiative much in the review. I was curious whether the players swapped cards with each other or monsters and how they liked that system. It's always a nailbiter for us when we all pull cards > 5 and the monsters pull 1-3.
We only really messed with the Swapping initiative later in the fight because I didn’t want to overwhelm my players - it came up once where one of my players swapped with an NPC.
Can players swap their initiative with an enemy?
@@FamilyTableTop Players can swap their lower number for a higher number. This allows them do delay movement & action in order for the monster to go first, giving the player a chance to parry/evade or just hold out hope that the D6 rolls in their favor.
For what its worth, when we create characters we roll 4d6 down the line swap any 2 at the end, starting skillls equal half your ability, pick 10 skills (adult) to get a +5 bonus, then choose either chain mail with weapon/shield, or light armor with weapon and bow. That gets added to torch, 4 food, and 1d6 silver, only ability is kin ability. We like playing deadly games no in depth character creation takes 3 minutes, start pretty average (no Gandalf) and develop them further as they start surviving stuff.
You didn't discuss Casting? How is the Magic System?
@@satori2890 we did not have any casters and none of the enemies were casters. That’s a good point though - I would like to cover the spell casting in the game
@@FamilyTableTop The Book is Spectacular Settlements
A Quick caveat, I'm Swedish, so if any rules term is wrong below it is because I own the game in Swedish and the natural translation of a term isn't Always the most flavourfull...or free of risks of lawsuits…
The Magic system in Dragonbane is pretty simple to get a hang of. The core rules have Three magic schools. When you build a Magic-User (the only profession that can cast spells from Creation, as a balancing factor they don't get any heroic abilities to start out with as they get magic instead) you pick school and get a number of spells from said school. Dragonbane doesn't use spellslots, it uses the willpower pool (same pool as non-magic users use to Power their heroic abilities), each casting Costs a number of willpower Points depending on the spellevel and if you want to Power up the spell (more damage, bigger effect, longer effect etc.).
The system also uses "roll to cast", ie. you need to pass a Spellcraft check to get the spell to work, this works as any skill d20, roll under your Spellcasting skill to succeed. For extra fun and risk, there is a fumble table should you roll a 20 on your casting roll, I had a wizard forget how to person for a specified time once.
The powerlevel of magic is lower then in D&D5e and the number of spells is much lower. Over all I like the magic system a lot. The way spells work you can give a scroll of a spell as loot and your wizard can study it, make a spellcasting roll and now he knows that spell.
The number of magic school in the core rules are a bit limited (Three in total I think), but Free League will be releasing an expansion to the rules during 2025 with more spells and more magic schools.
Landon’s dad on blast
@@PichulRixth lol.
I would like to talk to you if you have the time. I am the Ambassador for the upcoming film/documentary "50 Years of Fantasy" the 50th anniversary of D&D and looking for Creators and Influencers in our community.
@@miketaylor8582 would you like my email address? Or discord handle?
I think I might like it…but those ducks…
To me the Mallard and Wolfkin have more personality than the usual “demi-human” fairy-tale peoples found in standard fantasy. Which is what I’m looking for.
Have you looked at DCC?
I look at DCC every time I go to the game store. 😂
Jokes aside, I haven’t gotten it yet mostly cause I have a few systems to look at - it’s high on my list.
Is DCC a system you like?
@@FamilyTableTop It's a good system. I only mention it because character creation and play is super easy. In fact they sell scratch off character sheets that you can just hand people and they scratch them off and play. My players loved it.
I don't currently play it now though. I am search for a system to "put my flag" in so to say and nothing has stuck with me yet.
@@neonGliiitch and the soft cover of the rule book now is available for … $15? Maybe $10? Talk about an accessible price!
It's basically the same thing with a few mechanics changed here and there
@@ArielCarmona it’s nothing like DnD 5e - except that the game uses dice and numbers and a fantasy setting…
If you think 5e is complicated then I'd hate to see how Landon's dad would be in a 3.5 or even an AD&D game. Doesn't sound to me like the problem was with D&D, the system or even your DM style. Sounds like a player problem to me
@@ArielCarmona oh for sure - but he’s also my friend and I’m interested in finding a system that he enjoys.
I absolutely hate 5e so can understand his frustration- at the same time I can understand that you like 5e, and that’s fine with me too.
@@FamilyTableTop Not my favorite system, but I don't think it's as bad as you make it out to be, but to each their own
No offense, but 5e comparatively speaking is a cakewalk compared to OSR games. Also no offense but I can't understand why game developers keep dumbing down games. It's like players don't want to critically think anymore. It's kinda sad
@@ArielCarmona do you do a lot of critical thinking while playing DnD 5e?
@@FamilyTableTop 4e was more tactical and if you like tactical play, that version was the one to play. The critical thinking came in more in OSR type games
@@ArielCarmona Probably semantics but I always thought of OSRs as more creative problem solving than critical thinking.
That’s a really good way to explain it.
One Page Rules: free, universal, wargaming rules.
Comes highly recommended by many frustrated/retired Warhammer 40k players 😅 I think you could basically let GI Joe fight a Furby with it.
You could have been playing about one hundred games instead of and are better than 5e.
You are so correct - Dragonbane is just one example of a better system.
Do you have a favorite game system?
@@FamilyTableTop Right now, for a D20 fantasy game, it is Tales of Argosa. Printed out the PDF and should have the HC by Christmas I believe (Kickstarter).
Modern game mechanics but with an OSR feel and tone. Can easily adapt modules and monsters from all the D&D editions and any OSR game.
Characters can be “customized” or even multi-classed in a simple way with a simple skill and background system and “Unique Features” that can basically be any Feat you want that you can use from any other game as long as the DM okays it. The “Exploits” system in combat is a more open ended version of Mighty Deeds from Dungeon Crawl Classics.
Oh yeah plus it had levelless spells and magic can corrupt your character or have a wild magic like effect.
Just hits the sweet spot for me and my players.