I would go more for 6a draw through this method as the ESC would draw a certain current thus adding to the motor draw. So if the motor by itself pulls 5.5a and with the esc draw reads 7.2, safe to say the esc pulls a little less than 2a factoring in the fan attached pulling .27a at the beginning. The flashing LED is negligible as it’s intermittent and only uses barely 3v to light up for that instant. Also, internal resistance of the esc adds to the amps drawn through heat which must be dissipated through the heatsink. All this is energy drawn and lost.
your right, but the point i try to make that most dont seem to understand, there is no "magic" number to set a motor. your suppose to set a motor based on the largest jump on the track your racing, or the largest straight away section. and tune your motor based on that and once you find what the motor likes to keep the temps just low enough to not melt a motor, thats the magic spot.
Hi, Chris, great video´s; i am wondering if i do this with a 1 cell esc with a 1 cell lipo, do i aim for 6A also, or just 3 Amps, because the voltage is only half of a 2 cell lipo?
i have never tried a 1 cell option so i cant help you much besides what i already said on the video. The 6a mark is just a tuning tool, and a way to test a motor to get the same results every time you tear it apart and rebuild it.... So if you find out your motor is running PERFECT at 3amps, and you use the volt ohm meter to test and it shows its at 3amps then your set. you still have to figure out what the motor is wanting for your application, ever motor is different and wants different things, Tune your motor to heat, should be getting 150-160 degs after a run if its not, turn it up, if its over, turn it down... i hope that can help you understand more about tunning.
1st i want to say great video very informative! Would you happen to know why a motor wouldn’t hold full amps when you hold down the throttle? Im tryin to set a reedy s+ 17.5 and it peaks at 4amps for a split second then under 1amp for the rest of the time im holding the throttle. I tested my other motors using this method and everything works fine its just this one motor im having a issues with. Thanks again
@@ChrisPatrickRC Aye. Getting the ability to check the timing of the can is a nice feature. I'll probably still grab the analyzer. Any major differences between this SkyRC unit, and the Motorizer from Trinity I think it is? *(the 400.00 unit).
With motor unloaded, it does not matter and make any sense how much number you get. The only possible use of this is to compare several motors in line, but once loaded, these motors can still behave differently than you perceive based on the numbers you have when unloaded. These cheap instruments can only give you some sort of ideas but not reliable. You need one that can add torque to motors.
You are correct for the most part, a chassis dyno is hands down the best way to know what its doing. My point for most of this series is , once you find the timing your motor once, this tool allows you to determine what it is and when you work on it you can set it EXACTLY how it was before.
So if using this method with the multimeter what sort of amp draw on the motor roughly should you be looking at to get maximum performance from the motor? Is there a point where the amp draw drops off when the timing is too high? Just looking to set my 21.5t timing for the best performance
the answer is YES.... but what that point is , i cant tell you because every motor is different, YOU have to do trial and error with your motor to find out what your specific motor wants. some want timing, and some dont, example... trinity usually loves timing, and my mclain doesnt. but one is a torque motor and one is a RPM motor. Thats why i cant give you a set number and say "if you set your motor at 32 degs of timing, which is 4 amps, is your magic number" i hope this makes since ?
Chris, great content. I am a bit confused though. I thought the goal was to get 5.5A to your motor. When you ended the previous video you had your motor timed to 5.5A. At the start of this video the ammeter read 7.74A. I get that...ESC, fan, etc. pulls additional current. At the end you tuned your circuit to pull 5.5A. Doesn't that mean your motor is actually receiving less that the 5.5A you were aiming for due to the still remaining current pulled by the ESC, fan, etc? Seems to me you would need to add up the current of the rest of your circuit and add that to 5.5A and tune to that. Shouldn't your end goal have been the original 7.74A? Again great content just trying to learn.
Because 5.5a was measured directly at the motor threw a motor analyzer. So that is a more precision device to measure what the motor is doing without anything else in the way. So if a analyzer shows 5.5a and if you follow the volt ohm meter and its 7.74a , at the end of the day its data you can use to tune your motor. So if you decided to tear apart and do maintance you have a way to rebuild the motor to exactly how it was. Or if you think you can get more out of your motor you can turn up the timing and watch the amp draw. So maybe turn up the motor can another 5 degs of timing and it changes the volt ohm meter to 8amps. I hope that helps.
So technically you want to set it higher than 5.5 amps using the the voltmeter from the esc due to the extra current draw from the esc ? How would you find the amp draw of the esc and fan to sum it up so your motor is pulling the full 5.5a?
yes you would want to go slightly higher. how much higher i cannot say because ever esc , every fan is different. The point of this video is , once you have a established base for timing , lets call it 30 degs of timing showing on the can, you can test it with your meter , so when you go to tear apart the motor for what ever reason or another, and you go to put it back together, you know EXACTLY where it was and you can put it back in the same spot as before.
Chris, I have a cheaper Trackstar 13.5T motor. But no mather how much/low i set the timing, I can't get this above 2.33Amps draw. Should I asume this is the max the circuit will draw and just get another motor? :)
@@dmi i enjoy my trinity motors, but there are other good manufactures out there. r1, fantom, hobbywing (higher end models) , motive... just make sure you spend the extra money on a certified version as they will be the higher % so your getting the best motor for your money at that point. example trinity is top 5% becomes certified.
because your adding resistance of wiring, plus the esc is being added to the power draw. so the combination of the pair is why using a volt ohm meter will always read a higher number then directly off the motor. The purpose of the video is to show you it can be done, and it gives you a data point you can duplicate and adjust your motor using that tool, and know it will be accurate. you just cant use the analyzer and the meter together because the numbers are different.
@@ChrisPatrickRC thanks for that ,I have volt meter and have done my motor 5:6 amps for 21:5 t and will test it out with temp gun ,thanks again for a cheap running setup
Saw your reply to George Jefferson, and it still didn't make much sense to me? You tune the motor to 5.5A on the analyzer, then at those settings it reads over 7A in your truck (obviously the ESC & fan account for that extra current usage). You then reduce your timing (lowering motor performance)? Is this because you're battery pack won't cope for the length of time you require, running that amperage? This is the only reason I can envisage. Thanks.
no. if you test a motor lets say 50 deg of timing and not change it, install it into a vehicle like i did and test it using the volt meter and get 7 amps, that means the MOTOR is drawing 5.5 amps and the rest is a draw from the wiring, esc, fans transponder and everything else. the purpose of this which i think your missing is its a point of reference for you to test your motor without using a analyzer. Some poeple dont want to spend the $100 for one which i understand. but lets say you check your temps of the motor and you know your on the right gearing and you decide you want to turn UP the motor, you can adjust and change to a set timing, lets guess on the can to 53 deg... and then you make laps and find out its the PERFECT match for your car and your track, you can then set the volt meter to it and check the draw. Lets say that draw is now 9.2 amps (hypothetical). you decide you want to take the motor apart 1 month from now to clean it and do service and reinstall everything back, you can adjust the end cap to draw EXACTLY what it was when you found the "magical" number your combo wants for your track, setup, driving style, temps... i know this is a long response but my point, there is NO magical number to set it at, because there are A LOT of variables, but once you find what works for you, you have a way to set it back to that EVERY time you do service on the motor. i hope this helps you with your confusion if not let me know and ill explain more.
@@ChrisPatrickRC ah, it's just a benchmark, I understand now. I originally thought you were tuning for peak power, then didn't understand the backing it off bit. Thanks for replying!
@@TheSoulspinner correct. The numbers I have put out in public are my base numbers I set all my motors too and adjust according , there usually a pretty conservative number to set it at.
Great stuff, Chris. Appreciate you putting in the work to help the RC community get smarter and faster.
Wow. I watched the last video and it blew my mind. This video was even better. Thank you for the helpful information!!!
glad you enjoyed the series. and i keep trying to come up with good content people would like.
Great video! Going to make my jumper this week and give it a shot. 👍
I would go more for 6a draw through this method as the ESC would draw a certain current thus adding to the motor draw. So if the motor by itself pulls 5.5a and with the esc draw reads 7.2, safe to say the esc pulls a little less than 2a factoring in the fan attached pulling .27a at the beginning. The flashing LED is negligible as it’s intermittent and only uses barely 3v to light up for that instant. Also, internal resistance of the esc adds to the amps drawn through heat which must be dissipated through the heatsink. All this is energy drawn and lost.
your right, but the point i try to make that most dont seem to understand, there is no "magic" number to set a motor.
your suppose to set a motor based on the largest jump on the track your racing, or the largest straight away section. and tune your motor based on that and once you find what the motor likes to keep the temps just low enough to not melt a motor, thats the magic spot.
Hi, Chris, great video´s; i am wondering if i do this with a 1 cell esc with a 1 cell lipo, do i aim for 6A also, or just 3 Amps, because the voltage is only half of a 2 cell lipo?
i have never tried a 1 cell option so i cant help you much besides what i already said on the video.
The 6a mark is just a tuning tool, and a way to test a motor to get the same results every time you tear it apart and rebuild it....
So if you find out your motor is running PERFECT at 3amps, and you use the volt ohm meter to test and it shows its at 3amps then your set.
you still have to figure out what the motor is wanting for your application, ever motor is different and wants different things, Tune your motor to heat, should be getting 150-160 degs after a run if its not, turn it up, if its over, turn it down...
i hope that can help you understand more about tunning.
1st i want to say great video very informative! Would you happen to know why a motor wouldn’t hold full amps when you hold down the throttle? Im tryin to set a reedy s+ 17.5 and it peaks at 4amps for a split second then under 1amp for the rest of the time im holding the throttle. I tested my other motors using this method and everything works fine its just this one motor im having a issues with. Thanks again
sounds like a sensor board issue. thats where id start if it was mine.
@@ChrisPatrickRC thanks for the response...i guess i'll start looking into the sensor board
sweet. I knew there should be a way to do that. Thanks. Saved me a Cnote. Already have the meter. just need to solder up a jumper.
Just remember its not as precise due to the esc and wires and so forth . But it will give you a consistent reading and thats all that really matters.
@@ChrisPatrickRC Aye. Getting the ability to check the timing of the can is a nice feature. I'll probably still grab the analyzer. Any major differences between this SkyRC unit, and the Motorizer from Trinity I think it is? *(the 400.00 unit).
@@HBFTimmahh alot more percise and measures more. Its what the pros use.
whats weird is i have a 17.5 xfactor set at 50 deg. measuring like this i get a 36 amp reading.. .
With motor unloaded, it does not matter and make any sense how much number you get. The only possible use of this is to compare several motors in line, but once loaded, these motors can still behave differently than you perceive based on the numbers you have when unloaded.
These cheap instruments can only give you some sort of ideas but not reliable. You need one that can add torque to motors.
You are correct for the most part, a chassis dyno is hands down the best way to know what its doing.
My point for most of this series is , once you find the timing your motor once, this tool allows you to determine what it is and when you work on it you can set it EXACTLY how it was before.
So if using this method with the multimeter what sort of amp draw on the motor roughly should you be looking at to get maximum performance from the motor?
Is there a point where the amp draw drops off when the timing is too high?
Just looking to set my 21.5t timing for the best performance
the answer is YES.... but what that point is , i cant tell you because every motor is different, YOU have to do trial and error with your motor to find out what your specific motor wants. some want timing, and some dont, example... trinity usually loves timing, and my mclain doesnt. but one is a torque motor and one is a RPM motor.
Thats why i cant give you a set number and say "if you set your motor at 32 degs of timing, which is 4 amps, is your magic number" i hope this makes since ?
Chris, great content. I am a bit confused though. I thought the goal was to get 5.5A to your motor. When you ended the previous video you had your motor timed to 5.5A. At the start of this video the ammeter read 7.74A. I get that...ESC, fan, etc. pulls additional current. At the end you tuned your circuit to pull 5.5A. Doesn't that mean your motor is actually receiving less that the 5.5A you were aiming for due to the still remaining current pulled by the ESC, fan, etc? Seems to me you would need to add up the current of the rest of your circuit and add that to 5.5A and tune to that. Shouldn't your end goal have been the original 7.74A? Again great content just trying to learn.
Because 5.5a was measured directly at the motor threw a motor analyzer. So that is a more precision device to measure what the motor is doing without anything else in the way.
So if a analyzer shows 5.5a and if you follow the volt ohm meter and its 7.74a , at the end of the day its data you can use to tune your motor. So if you decided to tear apart and do maintance you have a way to rebuild the motor to exactly how it was. Or if you think you can get more out of your motor you can turn up the timing and watch the amp draw. So maybe turn up the motor can another 5 degs of timing and it changes the volt ohm meter to 8amps.
I hope that helps.
@@ChrisPatrickRC Yup tracking. Thanks.
Great info thanks
Cracks me up when you call em engines
I still catch myself saying that way. I know its incorrect but its a old habit. Oh well. I just do the best I can and hope for the best :)
So technically you want to set it higher than 5.5 amps using the the voltmeter from the esc due to the extra current draw from the esc ? How would you find the amp draw of the esc and fan to sum it up so your motor is pulling the full 5.5a?
yes you would want to go slightly higher. how much higher i cannot say because ever esc , every fan is different.
The point of this video is , once you have a established base for timing , lets call it 30 degs of timing showing on the can, you can test it with your meter , so when you go to tear apart the motor for what ever reason or another, and you go to put it back together, you know EXACTLY where it was and you can put it back in the same spot as before.
Chris, I have a cheaper Trackstar 13.5T motor.
But no mather how much/low i set the timing, I can't get this above 2.33Amps draw.
Should I asume this is the max the circuit will draw and just get another motor? :)
odds are yes that would be the max amps it draws, or its a fixed timed motor possibly?
@@ChrisPatrickRC i can go from 1.2 to 2.33 and back to 1.20 :-)
Any advice on motor ? Trinity all the way ? ;-)
@@dmi i enjoy my trinity motors, but there are other good manufactures out there. r1, fantom, hobbywing (higher end models) , motive... just make sure you spend the extra money on a certified version as they will be the higher % so your getting the best motor for your money at that point. example trinity is top 5% becomes certified.
Thank you very much!
Is your meter wired backwards. I noticed a negative reading on your meter
Probably was .
why do you think the motor checker and volt meter are not the same AMP readings ?? just asking as they seem not even near each other for tuning
because your adding resistance of wiring, plus the esc is being added to the power draw.
so the combination of the pair is why using a volt ohm meter will always read a higher number then directly off the motor. The purpose of the video is to show you it can be done, and it gives you a data point you can duplicate and adjust your motor using that tool, and know it will be accurate. you just cant use the analyzer and the meter together because the numbers are different.
@@ChrisPatrickRC thanks for that ,I have volt meter and have done my motor 5:6 amps for 21:5 t and will test it out with temp gun ,thanks again for a cheap running setup
What setting is ohm meter dialed to?
It was mentioned in the video but its dc amp , which on that exact meter is bottom right corner in the red called 5adc.
Saw your reply to George Jefferson, and it still didn't make much sense to me?
You tune the motor to 5.5A on the analyzer, then at those settings it reads over 7A in your truck (obviously the ESC & fan account for that extra current usage). You then reduce your timing (lowering motor performance)? Is this because you're battery pack won't cope for the length of time you require, running that amperage? This is the only reason I can envisage.
Thanks.
no. if you test a motor lets say 50 deg of timing and not change it, install it into a vehicle like i did and test it using the volt meter and get 7 amps, that means the MOTOR is drawing 5.5 amps and the rest is a draw from the wiring, esc, fans transponder and everything else. the purpose of this which i think your missing is its a point of reference for you to test your motor without using a analyzer. Some poeple dont want to spend the $100 for one which i understand.
but lets say you check your temps of the motor and you know your on the right gearing and you decide you want to turn UP the motor, you can adjust and change to a set timing, lets guess on the can to 53 deg... and then you make laps and find out its the PERFECT match for your car and your track, you can then set the volt meter to it and check the draw.
Lets say that draw is now 9.2 amps (hypothetical). you decide you want to take the motor apart 1 month from now to clean it and do service and reinstall everything back, you can adjust the end cap to draw EXACTLY what it was when you found the "magical" number your combo wants for your track, setup, driving style, temps...
i know this is a long response but my point, there is NO magical number to set it at, because there are A LOT of variables, but once you find what works for you, you have a way to set it back to that EVERY time you do service on the motor.
i hope this helps you with your confusion if not let me know and ill explain more.
@@ChrisPatrickRC ah, it's just a benchmark, I understand now. I originally thought you were tuning for peak power, then didn't understand the backing it off bit.
Thanks for replying!
@@TheSoulspinner correct. The numbers I have put out in public are my base numbers I set all my motors too and adjust according , there usually a pretty conservative number to set it at.