5 Big Bore Cartridges for Alaskan Trail Defense, and 5 to Pass On
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- Опубліковано 15 вер 2024
- We take a look at 5 big bore handgun cartridges that we would take for trail defense in Alaska against wolves, moose, and the mighty Kodiak brown bear and 5 we would leave at home. Take a look and see if you would agree or choose different options.
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Thanks for the great review of all the options! Everyone just needs to remember a couple things. First and foremost. #1 You need to practice with your gun. #2 Don’t buy a gun that you’re afraid of the recoil. #3 semiautomatic won’t fire when the bear is on top of you and you have the muzzle pushed against his body. The slide gets pushed back preventing the gun from discharging. #4 Know where to shoot an animal that’s in a charging situation. #5 pay attention to your surroundings! If you get the feeling that something is wrong, it probably is and that’s your natural defense mechanism telling you to wake up! Man evolved these instincts just like deer!
I'm 73 years old and have no cartlege in my right wrist, and have no trouble controlling the 454 raging bull.
Considering I live Here in Alaska and I am a Certified Alaskan tracker and hunting guide. I carry either my 44 mag or my 10mm and have had to drop bears at very close range Multiple times including during three body recovers in the recent past .It is Obvious you have never lived here or have ever had to face charging big Brown bear at close range. The thing is hardcast bullets are your best friend with both the 44 mag and the 10mm .Brother before you do another video on what to pack and what not to pack when it comes to this big Beautiful deadly state you might want to ask those of us who live and work here year around. 👅👅
Very well said! Thank you!
I would second this
The best response I ever read was in a sportsmen’s magazine decades ago. The response was something like this. It doesn’t make any difference what caliber you choose. Just pick a firearm with the shortest barrel. That way it won’t hurt as much when the grizzly bear takes it from you and sticks it up your arse. So ends today’s lesson. Cheers!
Am VERY sorry to learn of John Linebaugh's passing. I corresponded with him in the late 1980's about accurizing my Ruger Super Blackhawk. I even bought his loading specs for the Blackhawk in .45 Colt--a vast improvement for the performance of this cartridge. Of the guns you've referenced, I own a .44 magnum Super Blackhawk--have read of hunters bagging African Elephants with this cartridge; Freedom Arms .454 Casull--bought it from a scrawny guy who said he'd fired it 10 times and NEVER wanted to fire it again. I got it for $300 less than he'd paid for it--never regretted the purchase. Like most big bore guns, it's an acquired taste--you have to WANT to master it, or you never will. Same with the .480 Ruger, and Model 500 S&W. I don't buy ammo for any of these, I roll my own, pouring my own hardcast bullets with molds from Brownells--ammo is WAY too expensive for these hand cannons...Brownelles
I own the Ruger Alaskan in .480 Ruger. That's my first choice. It's followed by the versatility of the XVR .460 S&W, in the 8.3/8 inch barrel, 10mm, .44 and .357 Magnum cartridges. I would choose my Henry Big Boy carbine in 45-70 over any and all of the .500 cartridge offerings. The confidence with this lineup will take me anywhere in the world, and gives me dominion over any and all threats therein.
Anything with a hard cast bullet, but ideally a 12 gauge slug or .45-70
@sovietalaska I can't fault either. Like I said, my preference overall is my Marlin in .45-70 woth some 400+ grain, high velocity hard cast loads.
You're only decent pick was the 454 Casull. All other four of your picks are very hard to come by, both the guns and the ammunition!
Yet you passed on the 44 magnum. WTF? A long time proven performer that is both plentiful in both firearms and ammunition. REALLY bad take there.
500 bushwhacker👍👍👍 only 1 shot and make it count
@belovedwarrior483 If you hit the right spot, that cartridge is basically a .500 Nitro Express in terms of power!
Isn't that thing almost just as long or longer than a 45-70 Gov't? Calling it a "handgun round" is pushing it.
@@TheMrPeteChannel it's the most powerful handgun round. T2 armory makes it
@@GoBigBoreOrGoHomeisn't it like 5400 foot pounds out of a 10.5 inch barrel? That's a gun fit for hellboy. I believe a 480 Ruger or 44mag is ideal. Enough power to take one down without perfect aim but not enough recoil too limit it to one shot like the big bastards. The worst and best would be any really powerful semi-auto ( 45 win mag and hot 10mm to 50 a.e.) if you could get your hands on a 475 wildey survivor that would be a problem for anything next too you. On that idea a video of defense rounds for buffalo and other massive herbivores?
@@TheMrPeteChannelit's longer and has a lot more power. Like a 500 nitro. A heavy hallow point would devastate a bear.
The 460V S&W X- frame revolver with a five inch full lug muzzle brake equipped barrel is a GREAT platform for the 454 Casull and weighs 60 ounces so weight and brake and grip mitigates recoil substantially.
The interview between Ron spolmer and Phil shoemaker should be watched Phil is a 40 year veteran Kodak brown bear guid I quote “ it is not about the size of the bullet it is where you put the bullet shoot what you can shoot accurately” he said he carried a 357 mag for years and carry’s a 44 now I tested myself shooting a 357 and my 44 I will be carrying my 357 with 180 grain cast solids in it they actually penetrate as much as 320 grain out of 44its all about what you can hit with in order to stop a grizzly bear in his tracks you have to hit brain or spine
I would take the 460 S&W magnum and use the 454 Casull in my 460V with a five inch muzzle brake equipped barrel. And mine weighs just 60 ounces. It makes the 454 Casull tolerable to shoot. Guides Choice Chest Holster and hip carry 329PD 44 magnum with Double Tap 320 grain WFNGC. As my backup weapon.
I just got a 500 Linebaugh last year at a gun show and all I can say is WOW I love it!! Now I also have a S&W 460 mag with a 6.5" barrel and you can use the 454 casull and 45 long Colt in it. I use the underwood 250gr extreme penetrator. Now my go to is my Glock 40 MOS 10mm and I know A LOT of you don't agree but I can carry 30 rounds of 220gr hard cast coated ammo. I was bow hunting moose in Alaska and and had to use it on a charging moose. Three shots and a side step and it was down 6 feet from me. I'm retired ARMY and was in the SF community my last 13 years I'd much rather have more accurate shots on target with quick reloads. A revolver is great and hard hitting but you are limited to 5 to 6 rounds with a slow reload. With my training and stressful situations I've been in I'm very confident with my ability to protect myself or anyone that's with me in the wilderness. That's my opinion and will never push my opinion on anyone, we all like to get out and do the same things pretty much except for the trolls in the comments that try to separate us Walmart shopping deplorable's. Stay safe out there guys and happy hunt'n.
I have a 460V five inch muzzle brake equipped barrel with a full lug profile. It is my choice and with the ability to use 454 Casull as a more controlled recoil cartridge in this 60 ounce X-frame revolver it is better than a lighter single-action.
My passes would be:
1 .45 acp
2. 40 s&w
3. .44 special
4. .45 colt standard pressure
5. 10 mm
Packs
.1 .500 magnum
.2 500 jrh.
3. 475 Linbaugh
4. .460 s&w
5. .454 Casull/ .45 Colt +P.
I own a 500 S&W magnum with a 6.5 inch semi-lug barrel ported barrel that weighs 60 ounces and it is no longer in the S&W catalog. Shooting 500 JRH is good using a Buffalo Bore 440 grain hardcast gas check factory load at 950 fps at the muzzle.
Glad to see you back at it. I've gotten into big bores in a big way. Love them.
#1 to pack.... 22lr, because it's bouncy
The 500 S&W X-frame also shoots 500 JRH aka 500 S&W Short Magnum as well as 500 S&W Special.
3.5 inch S&W 500 magnum performance center enters chat.
I will say this, when it comes to the 500 there is no question you have enough. Even if an elephant turns the corner.
The cartridge I'd leave at home is the .45-70, ironically enough. It is a powerhouse in Marlin rifles and Ruger No 1 & 3s'. But the ammo is expensive right now. The cheapest box of ammo I found at my Bass Pro Shop, arguably the cheapest source in my area and online, is $50 for 20 rounds of Winchester White Box that has sat for 3 years. I love my Marlin 1895 CB but feeding it is a beast on the wallet. Reloading is possible, but .45-70's, especially lever actions, are finnicky about case length and the BFR is even more so. What would easily fit in the chamber of a Ruger single shot would easily leave a cartridge sticking out the back of a BFR cylinder or jam a Marlin 1895 (Don't ask me how I know that).
If I were to take a cartridge, i would probably go with the .45 Long Colt in my Super Blackhawk. The ammo is affordable for big bore revolver ammo, brass is extremely available even if ammo isn't, and components are readily sourced. Some may bring up issues with velocity or power but the Super Blackhawk has a proven track record of handling loads that make .45 Long Colt just shy of some of the hottest .44 Magnum rounds with heavier bullets. You add in that you can get cowboy action loads and i think it would be decent for handling Kodiak's with the right powder and bullet combination. Me personally, I'd probably stick with some 300 grain Leigheigh Penetrators or Flat Nose solids. With the right powder, I can easily get that sucker up to 1250 FPS. That is fore sure no slouch of a cartridge. They are only going about 300 ft per second less than .454 Casull, in a lighter revolver, and easier to get on target than the Casull. That seals the deal for me
17:00
easy choice.
ruger redhawk / super redhawk in 45 colt.
very powerful 45 colt+p hardcast rounds ( well over 44 mag, just under 480 ruger power) from buffalo bore, underwood, hsm, grizzly, corbon etc.
and the perfect companion to my 45 colt winchester 92 trapper.
(or my trapper '94 winchester)
which adds 300 fps over the revolver.
6 rounds in the revolvers, 9 in the carbine. one cartridge fits both.
revolver in waist holster, carbine slung.
I loved the feel of safety carrying my 475 linebaugh in the woods in Alaska. Too many rounds of 420 grain copper jacketed hornady got heavy when walking longer distances, though.
Never saw the Hornady rounds. Might have to check into those.
10 mm and 44 mag are the most common bear defensive guns in Alaska. The rest are either too weak or too powerful for fast follow up shots.
That's absolutely not true... hope you're being sarcastic. If you're gonna carry a .44 and decide to shoot a good bear round, you're shooting at pressures where you might as well move up to a bigger caliber
@@mainnn113 they use plain old .44 mag JSP because they are widely available. Or 10 mm 200 grain FMJ for bear defense.
@@PassivePortfolios but JSP and FMJ are not bear rounds. They simply don't have the penetration. If you compare a 10mm or .44mag round designed for bear defense, you're entering a realm of rounds reaching up to pressures similar to calibers that you might as well have anyway. The fact that the 44mag needs to be pushed to nearly it's safe limit just to be a viable bear round, means it's simply too weak.
@@mainnn113 both give about 24" of penetration in test jell so they are fine for bear defense plus they are widely available.
@@PassivePortfolios how many times does the big bore community need to be reminded that a jell test is not a good test of bear penetration. If the bullet isn't flat nose hard cast, it will ricochet off the forehead if you're a good shot, or will come to an abrupt halt when it hits bone if you shot it center mass. And in case your new, flat nose hard cast rounds are only loaded hot. Again, a hot .44 mag round is pushing the limits of safe .44 pressures. At that point, you should play it safe and move up. In my opinion, and the opinion of other experienced big bore revolver guys, the minimum safe round for a bear is a .454 Casull. But due to its insane recoil, id jump up to a 475 Linebaugh. If you want even more bullet, and less recoil, my favorite is the 500 JRH. You can go 500 Linebaugh too if you want. .500 SW is too big to pack.
Any 460 S & W will shoot 454 casul , a 7.5 inch with ports in a cross draw holster works . A carbine works even BeTTer .
I’d love Ruger to make a black hawk in 460/454
I do like the fact of a wide range of ammo & cartridge options available for the S&W 460XVR. Although the 7.5" barrel is considered ideal for the S&W 460 Magnum cartridge, but with a 4-5/8" barrel is still "nothing to sneeze at".
Mares leg
@MWAdams605 I like the 460sw xvr in 8 and 3 8th inch barrel. It has a compensator and heavy barrel, which control the recoil a lot. Not very bad.
@Go Big Bore Or Go Home i've fired the .454 Casull through my .460 Magnum-XVR, and quite honestly, the recoil wasn't nearly as bad as I had originally thought, and i'd say it's about maybe double the power of a .44 Magnum hot load.
now the 300-grain Jacketed Hollow Points that's chambered for the .460 that Underwood Ammo sells on their website, now THAT'S a nasty round!!! I had to actually chamber (and fire) 1 round at a time to get used to it, and lemme tell you, it'll actually make your wrists hurt after awhile (but it felt damn good shooting it)
Glad to see you back
My Marlin 1895 Primary 576 grain Black Butterfly 1400fps. My secondary is a Ruger Super Redhawk Alaskan 480 2.5 410 grain Buff bore in brown bear country. It has easy linear push recoil. My 3rd is my Glock 29 with x -grip and full size G29 mag buffalo bore heavy hard cast. Still smaller than a full size G20. My 4th is my RIA 1911 10MM FS TACII same Buffalo Bore ammo.
Great video. But if I were in Kodiak bear country I'd carry that 45-70 rifle, inconvenient or not. 🤣
I'd prefer not to gamble on using a pistol.
But, I'd follow your selection of choices preferring a one shot stop rather than depending on fast follow shots. But believe me I'd be working any gun to the best of my ability till the monster is stopped in it's tracks. 🤣
But my current solution to this delema isn't a calibur of gun. It's to stay the hell out of Kodiak country. 😳
A big flat nosed hard cast lead gas checked 300 gr.Colt .45 bullet, with 21 grains of H110:
1. A 24” rolling block (reduced frame) rifle 1500 FPS and 1500 FPE.
2. A 7 1/2 in old model Vaquero with the same bullet at 1200 FPS and 900+. FPE
3. Same at 1100 FPS and 805 FPE.
The rifle with that big flat heavy hardcast lead bullet will certainly deal with anything in North America-and certainly if a full clip of 9mm will do the job, and I guess the same bullet from the big old Vaquero with a 1000 FPE will also do the job if need be. I will never see any high country north of Arizona, but this pistol will certainly take care of all the Two and Four Legged Critters we have here, eh?
JWC
I have to diagree about the .460 since I now have one and a chronograph. I traded my Taurus for a bfr with a 5.75 inch barrel I believe and the Underwood 360 grain hit a scorching 1797 fps. Recoil was viscious but to me that is great velocity from a shorter barrel. I wouldve thought the same as you but in this instance with those underwood loads, the .454 cant get anywhere near that. Its the Lipseys version with the black bisley grips and Im quite impressed.
A good video thanks. Interesting you showed a few single action options there. Be interested on viewer comments on that vs double action. Some good powerful cartridges there . I would love one of those 500 SW with the 4 inch barrel. With primary rifle maybe a bolt controlled feed 375 Rugar. Cheers 🇺🇸 🇳🇿
@davidneal6920 I hadn't thought about the .375 Ruger, but that would make a great trail gun in Alaska. The .500 with the 4 inch barrel would too.
Great video...I was waiting to see if The .41 Rem. Magnum was going to make the list on either pass or pack...
41 needs a revival. 357 is a little too small for big NA animals, 44 Magnum is a little too big for humans, 41 is a perfect compromise between man and beast.
@@SpecialEDy It's about exactly halfway between .357 caliber and .452 caliber. I agree. .44magnum is an overrated "solution" for those who want more than the .357.
454 or me. In big bear country I load full house 454 Casull 300 gr DG from Buffalo Bore. In small bear/lion country I load 45 colt +p 300 gainers DG also from Buffalo Bore.
Ruger Redhawk, not Super Redhawk,
AND a Marlin 1894 both in 500 JRH.
I know, I know, custom.
Second choice would be the same combo in 44 Magnum, with proper ammo.
My top carry:
1 .500 s&w custom Reeder Bisley. Could load a slightly more mild load like HSM or even .500 JRH.
2. ..500 JRH or Linebaugh. BFR.
3. .475 Linebaugh. Bisley.
4. .460 s&w. Lipseys 5.5 inch bfr.
5. .454 Casull.
Pass.
1. .45 acp
2. .40 s&w
3. .44 special
4. 10mm
5. .41 magnum
.45 colt would be a pass in standard pressure.
Take this as my humble offering to the algorithm gods
You forgot 45 Colt Ruger only and Redhawk only loads. More manageable than 454, but does the job.
I personally pack the 500L in a 5" bfr loaded with the MP 512-525 bullet. I own 500 Linebaugh long and a 500 Bushwhacker, but they require a long barrel, thus just aren't packable.
Whoa you have a .500 long and a Bushwhacker? Who made your .500 long?
@@timt8029 John Linebaugh. I'm on the list for a 475 long in stainless steel from Ronnie Wells.
@waynehager4228 I just checked out Ronnie wells. Didn't know about him. Is the .475 on his new maximum frame? I saw an article that he was going to come out with one but his website is pretty bare.
@waynehager4228 OK, what is the heaviest recoiling revolver you have? Nice to run into a like minded handgunner.
I was just chronographing some factory loads for my .475 Linebaugh bfr.
@waynehager4228 If you would tolerate one last question. What are you going to do for brass for the .475 long?
The last picture of the 500 S&W magnum revolver is a picture of my model with a 6.5 inch semi-lug ported barrel which is NOT made by S&W anymore.
What's wrong with a S&W 460 with an 8&3/8 Barrel.
You can't realistically carry that full time.
I agree with your selection of big bores👍
I think the 45-70 is perfection for bear country. Same ammo for my guide gun as my pistol, and it's cheap and proven.
All good points, Sean! Enjoyed your video!
@benneuls4142 Thank you, and I'm really glad you liked it!
I own a S&W XVR 460 with 8-3/8 inch barrel. It's still fast enough to aim in on a charging grizzly. I even have carried this on my hip rather than a chest holster for self-defense (hip holster is faster for me to draw)
My only complaint is the recoil of the 460 with Buffalo Bore 400 grain hard-cast ammo.
But... this revolver also fires the 454 Casul just fine with a little less recoil. So follow up shots are faster to get on target.
I give the S&W 460 XVR 8-inch barrel a thumbs up for side-arm bear defense.
357mag with 180gr hard cast out of a 4.5" barrel is my fishing bear gun and moose backup.
My archery backup is my Blackhawk in 45 colt with 360gr hard cast out of a 7.5" barrel.
My berry picking gun is either my 45acp or my 9mm.
It's about always having the gun on you so all times.
These massive revolvers are going to lead you to not having your defense on you at all times.
Problem is you get 1 shot or 2 max. Watching bear attacks on UA-cam they ambush fast
@@oscarbear7498 that's not true.
Not exactly.
The ones that attack/ambush you..... You never stood a chance anyways.
It's the ones that you come up on while wading a creek, hunting other game, fishing on a lake shore, walking the trails through town, walking any trail out in the woods.
There's not one handgun that's going to full stop any bear that's charging you before it reaches you. Unless you hit it right in the brain or spine up above its front legs.
Handguns are weak and you better be very very good with the one you choose to carry and that's hitting a navel orange coming at you at 25mph-35mph!
I'm taking my chances with a gun I can shoot very fast and accurately!
@@chrisfloyd8512
ua-cam.com/users/shortsoWu4EYx-rmE?si=wOl5YUHUmgdMhgjK
Hope to God your bear encounter goes like this
My choice would be my bfr in 45-70 mostly because that’s what I already own. Pair that with my 405gr hard cast loads and I’d be confident in my chances. My only hang up is I’d prefer a double action if possible. Cool video
I want to preface my rebuttal by acknowledging that you did say this was your personal list. You being experienced with shooting large revolvers, these large rounds aren't a bad choice. With that said...
Conventional wisdom is to pack a big revolver that can punch deep and at least cripple a brown bear giving you enough time for a follow up shot. I don't agree with this. Most folks can't control the recoil of a big revolver to get a decent hit in the first place. The new school of thought is a smaller caliber that is easier to shoot and go for brain shots. It's been demonstrated that Xtreme Penetrators even in 9mm can punch through a bear skull. So we're seeing more and more folks opting to go with standard semi-autos with hard penetrating bullets, lots of ammo on board and easy to shoot quickly. If you have plenty of time to prepare, grabbing yourself a good 10mm pistol and practicing with it is a good choice. If you have less time then just buy a few boxes of Xtreme Penetrators or Buffalo Bore in whatever caliber your primary sidearm is chambered in and make sure the function and roll with that. In addition to reading up on what to do if you do encounter a bear.
If you go to pistol-forum.com and check out the field pistol and grizzly defense threads there's a lot of good info to ponder.
I'm curious as to how that would play out in the real world. Live bone is tougher and harder to shoot through than something dead and dry, not to mention the fact that a bear's head contains more muscle and fat than brain, and a pissed off bear is not going to be sitting still to give you a nice opportunity to aim at a brain the size of an orange. Adrenaline and nerves will make hitting a moving target that size incredibly difficult.
@@EdTom82 So your solution is to use a gun that's even harder to shoot and that you've probably not practiced with nearly as much? Go check out the threads I mentioned and mull it over some.
@@bigghoss762 Are you saying "harder to shoot" to just mean more recoil? Some of my favorite guns to shoot are large revolvers. I shoot them as much as any auto that I have. In fact, my 3" S&W 629 with heavy loads is considerably more painful to shoot than full-power loads out of my 475. I'm not necessarily trying to impugn your proposition; I'm just saying that many elements are subjective. Personally, I'll be placing my bets on firing a big bullet at a big target.
@@EdTom82 I don't really understand what the point of this discussion is. I told you where to find the info I'm going off of but I get the impression you didn't look at it. Maybe it's not the best way but if you're not open to even looking at it I'm not intrested in debating it with you. It wouldn't make sense for either of us.
@@bigghoss762 The point (or mine, at least) is that I think packing a 9mm against brown bear is dumb, particularly in the manner you describe. The last part of your initial argument amounts to "spray and pray". I work in the firearms industry and have fired many thousands of rounds out of handguns, read the studies and seen the information. I looked at some of the threads in your link; there are some sensible points as well as a lot of bad points, but nothing novel. You've already referred to Sean's experience with large revolvers as being good cause for him selecting these weapons, but you seem to be assuming knowledge of my own shooting habits that give you some insight into what firearm I should be selecting for a given purpose.
I always carry a 60mm mortar.
or Old Painless
sean,
how come when i go to your merch store, there is nothing about the 45 colt,
the original big bore ?
My only 2 points of contention with this video are one, passing on the 460 S&W while giving the go to the 500. They both have the same drawbacks, but primarily the main issue of the size of the firearm. If you are not carrying a rifle, then it's probably due to a concern about weight. And with the size and mass of these 2 revolvers, might as well carry a compact rifle! The second issue is passing on the 44 magnum. While considered these days as an "entry level" big bore magnum, it has the oomph to deal with a bear in a, "get into action fast" scenario better than one of the X frame behemoths. All considered, the 454 is probably the best balance of size and power. But like you said, it is a brute! Those are just my opinions. That and 2 quarters will get you 50 cents.
THIS ended with me on the 454 Casull, Best that could be made! I like the ALASKAN!
@willford9205 Great cartridge and great gun! The Alaskan is an awesome trail gun!
I would carry a .577 Magnum, 6 shot revolver. A .577 revolver was manufactured by Webley in the 1870s; I handled one at the Pomona Gun Show in the early 1970s. I believe that a nice revolver chambering this size cartridge but longer than the original and firing a .577, 400 grain bullet at close to 1000 fps could be properly engineered. Making the revolver out of tool steel is the proper way to go about making it.
Unless you get a sporting exemption for it it would be considered a destructive device because it's over 50 caliber, unless you keep it black powder.
@@suemeade2471 Seems like all my good ideas come for naught in this country. I could neck down the cartridge to .48 Caliber and then just recall the firearms for a bore size fix.
I carry a 357 loaded with some spicy handloads for our woods gun, but in south Louisiana a moderately sized Black Bear is about the most dangerous animal in likely to encounter.
What about gators? Lol 😆
Loved your video. I think you nailed it. New subscriber. Alaska is home for me. I carry a 4 3/4" FA .475 if I'm also hunting with it. If I'm fishing or camping and carrying purely for protection, I carry a 5" Super Redhawk .454 (Ruger Toklat). I read an article, years ago, about a guy who had shot several elephants with the .475. He was on a trip to Alaska to hunt brown bear and had a .500 Linebaugh Maximum (very much the same as the .500 S&W) built. He killed a good bear, but was not impressed. He said that he wished he had bought his .475. That, and the overall size of the gun stopped me from getting a .500 S&W. I'm constantly tempted to get a Bowen converted Super Redhawk in .475 or .500... But, I just don't know how much more performance that would really give me over my .454.
I appreciate your list of reasons why and why not. There are good options that I can't disagree with on it. Real results would be had. Thanks for sharing this.
Great video!
Thank you, I am glad you enjoyed it!
I have a 500 with a 4” barrel I’m not taking it I have put a good number or rounds down the pipe and it’s hard to get a follow up shot. I’m going to take a 10mm I would rather have 15 rounds than 5. It’s also quicker for me to do a mag change than it is to reload a revolver. I also wouldn’t want a single action.
Spray and pray, the modern way.
Without watching the list my bear country side arm would be a .44 mag with at least a minimum 8 inch ported barrel.
Edit: Oh noes! It's on your pass list. Guess I'm a weak wristed wimp!
@TheMePeteChannel - In fairness, there's no point in carrying something bigger if you aren't comfortable with it. I have a gunsmith buddy who said it's what he would carry, too. He said he can't control a .454 Casull well, but he can put 300+ grain .44 bullets in a tight group quickly. Sounds good to me!
@@GoBigBoreOrGoHome👍 😊
I suggest everybody carry a pistol and walk through brush for a few days. You quickly come to realize how portability/ease of carry is undervalued. An 8 inch revolver in a chest holster might be doable. Hip carry, it will snag on everything.
I enjoyed your video and all of the hard work and research! However, in my opinion, the Grizzlly (brown) is not going to notice the difference between the454 (which has a horrible recoil reputation) and the most powerful 44 mag (Buffalo Bore). Your choices I agree with!! In my opinion your rifle or slug gun is your #1 method of protection. You should have at least one other person close by you in Grizzly country. I would not trust the 460 Roland with my life. The problem with the other packable pistols is finding them and obtaining ammo. Based on these facts, the 44mag is hard to beat event though it is not he best. The 44 mag has a proven track record in stopping brown beat attacks in Alaska
Yes and u can find 44mag ammo in just about any sporting good store
Thanks for the video.
I have neither the physical nor the fiscal health to consider a trip to Alaska. For me, all of this is interesting but academic.
First, I'm skeptical of the need for anything powerful to stop a mountain lion. While they are big and strong, mountain lions have been killed over the years with all kinds of improvised weapons. People have killed them with hunting knives and clubs. If the biggest threat to me was a mountain lion, I'd be perfectly comfortable carrying a 9mm.
Secondly, these kinds of lists are better with some premises identified at the beginning. If I understand you correctly, your first premise is that you want a handgun with enough power that a one-shot stop is plausible. I don't remember you saying that specifically, but as I look at your pack versus pass list, you seem to pass on anything that doesn't have that kind of power. Your second premise seems to be that the handgun must be reasonably easy to carry and draw. I think your third premise is that both guns and ammunition need to be available enough that finding either is not going to take a huge amount of time or money. I guess a fourth premise is that someone is going to be experienced enough with big bore handguns to become proficient with one of these guns in a reasonable amount of time and after spending a reasonable amount of money.
I'll infer the converse of some of these premises. The most important converse is that a person might not have time to fire two or three shots accurately and that two or three hits with a lesser caliber will be less effective than one hit with the right caliber. A second converse seems to be that a revolver with a fourteen inch barrel and bipod is not that much better than your lever-action .45-70 in terms of convenience and likelihood to get into action quickly. Because several of the pack guns appear to be single-action, you seem to be saying that a double-action gun with this much recoil won't be that much faster to fire than a single-action gun.
I don't have any experience with these guns, so I can't judge some of these ideas. I will raise a few questions.
Do you think that the average shooter going to Alaska for a couple of weeks is more likely to become good enough to get one of these guns into action faster than he (or she) could get a 10mm pistol into action? Do you think that the average shooter is more likely to make a stopping shot with one or maybe two shots of .500 Linebaugh as opposed to three or four shots of 10mm? If the choice is between training on $500 worth of 10mm ammunition or $500 worth of .500 JRH, which is likely to make a shooter proficient enough to have some chance of being effective?
Obviously, this list is your list of pack versus pass Alaska handguns. You have years of experience firing these handguns, so you wouldn't need a steep learning curve to shoot them effectively. With that in mind, I understand how you would arrive at this list.
If I had to go to Alaska and had to carry a handgun for bear protection, I would have to go the opposite direction. I would consider a .44 Magnum with a six-and-a-half to seven-inch barrel. I'd buy the cheapest ammunition that I could find in order to become moderately proficient with the gun. I'd then train a bit more with heavy loads that were still within specifications. I would count on being very lucky with the first shot or with hitting the bear two or three times before I die. If I went with a 10mm pistol, maybe I could stretch that to four hits before I die. I might go with something as powerful as the .454 Casull. If the bear attacks from a distance of less than fifty yards, I'm not going to survive the encounter anyway. I just want to have stopped the bear before it attacked anyone else in my group. Maybe they can stuff and display both of us together.
Good logic and a good laugh at the end
super Blackhawk Bisley in 454casull is pretty accurate even at 75 yards
When it comes to Alaskan Kodiak Bear, It's more like Go Big Bore Or Stay Home and Pray The Bear doesn't know where you live! And I agree: .45-70 Rifle All The Way!
Thanks for the video. All good suggestions. However, IMO the problem is stopping a charging brown bear requires a shot to the central nervous system. For this, control and penetration are paramount. While I agree with you comments on 10mm (although I love the 10mm), I believe most shooters would be best served with a heavy bullet hard cast 44 mag (or even a 41) since they would be more able to handle it. BTW I agree a hot loaded 45-70 lever action is the best choice.
I have enjoyed your videos. I recently ordered a bfr and debated between 475 linebaugh and 500 jrh. I settled on the 475 mainly due to the option of the 480 ruger. Haven’t fired it yet. Finding ammo is a booger but I found some brass at a local shop and I cast my own bullets.
when i go to your merch store ... you have nothing on 45 colt - the FIRST big bore handgun cartridge - why not ?
Excellent video, thanks!
I'm far from an expert but it seems to me a 3" magnum 12 gauge slug is tough to beat.
Thank you!! I love the 10mm and it's my favorite caliber but I don't think it's good for bear defense.
45 Super will work as well, but 45/70 all day
I love the look of a 45-70 , especially the 16 inch trapper.
But it's true, it's too cumbersome and I have noticed a smaller gun is more handy
As a fan of the .500 Mag, I really like this list. The .500 is great but is limited by the size of the guns that shoot it.
.480 Ruger and .454 Casull are also completely awesome.
.460 Mag is overrated. 10mm is also overrated.
Solid list, buddy!
I have seen some shooting stats that say bears aren't quite as tough as we think, but those stats didn't include Kodiak's. The 454 is a great option because it can shoot lighter rounds for other uses.
@brianmartin1139 I had a hunter tell me he's hunted bear all over North America. He said, "There's black bear, there's brown bear, and then there's Alaskan brown bear! They are a whole other world!" I've heard some crazy stories, but most of the time, it's the usual case of hitting the right spot with enough power to penetrate. If you hit correctly with a stout .44 magnum, that may just do it. Bit for me, I'll take the biggest thing 8 can handle after seeing just how big they get up there. They are huge! No doubt a .454 Casull could do the job.
Well let rethink this , for a primary weapon would a 30-06, 338 win , 375s ruger , weatherbys, rum 338s , 375s ( 33 Nolser ) 300 win , 416s rem this list could no for hours or more.
500 automax , 7 STW , 475 BISHOP might be one to mension . ( the 475 bishop is power house to I would invite to look it up on UA-cam at your leisure.
😊
With one these above rifles having ( and not along i mean a group of friends or family ) or if you are then you dont f around and go for 375 h&h or 4570.
For pistol or revolvers 460 S&W with 5 inch barrel the 500/460/454 would devastate the bear.
I would like for to revisit this topic and dive in more so
Bolt actions carry or pass
Levers actions carry or pass
Semi auto carry or pass
Winchester casull 240 loads are very manageable.
300 loads get stiff.
can shoot 454 in 460 and 500 jrh in 500 magnum. i like 480 but hard to find ammo. i like 500 magnum i like x frame.
What about cryptids? Are these things real? I live in California and am hearing all kinds of case reports on other channels and they're making me think twice about going into the woods unprotected anymore.
41 mag❤❤❤
I think the 500 S&W does Pretty well in a fairly short barrel and now they do indeed have Special brass which is going to come with a special price 😂 But i'm sure you can sacrifice some of your magnum brass and probably end up enjoying the shooting, especially at the range better. Apparently, with the shorter brass and tamed downloads, you get better. Standard deviation and potential accuracy. I like the boutique cartridges but I feel like the advantages are only going to be there if.
Your situation is very unique, as if you're professionally getting rid of wild pigs In Texas or something?
Love your content 😊
I am a 460xvr fan but you brought a very good point on the barrel length requirement.
The matter is being portable , quick and big bore... so jrh is probably yes the best option :)
Razer Dobbs used a Dan Wesson 10mm to drop not one but two African Cape Buffalo using Double Tap ammunition.
The number 1 choice you made leaves you with a bad choice for a gun being single action, you better off with the Ruger 454 if you want lots of power,
With the sort of recoil 454 makes, how quickly can you get followup shots with DA instead of SA?
@lifted_above1216 a good way to go is to have the first shot and last shot the most powerful with the in-between shots as powerful as you can shoot fast and accurate ,but you have find that for your self because everyone is different hitting the brain or spine is the most important, some of the most perfered guns are 10mm 357mag 44mag 454casall,,
Glocks so far are the best choice, in
10mm, 357mag is equal to the 10mm which works well with extreme penetraters but needs a barrel change for the hard cast bullets, Revolvers don't have trouble with power level and certain
Types of bullets if you don't want a jam when you're life is on the line get a Revolver, Ruger and S&W are the only ones I would Recommend , if you can get more than one gun 2 - 4 even if 2 of them are 5shot J Frame 357mags in bulldog only no hammer less or air weights they will fail you as I've had them and know from experience, if you get snubie magnums in 357mag 44mag and 454cassall they will not be present to shoot, a 6inch 44mag 629classsic is much more pleasant to shoot than a J Frame 357mag, but the 454cassall is less pleasant to shoot than the J Frame 357mag it has the most mussel flip even more than the 500mag because of its power to weight ratio but the big X Frame S&W is very Heavy and most will not carry it, mine has the 8 3/8 heavy all steel barrel, it's too much to weld fast enough in my opinion, more than 3 1/2
Pounds is usually going to be a bit much to weld, I would choose my 6inch 629classsic 44mag over the 454cassall because I can have rounds from 800 foot lbs of energy all the way to about 1800, with 44mag +p+ depending on barrel length the power level will vary up and down this will allow my first and last shots to be near as powerful as the 454cassall with the follow up shots at the more manageable level of the 44mag, and for less mussel flip some 200gr hard cast instead of 300gr hard cast, will help if you can get them or cut down the heavier ones, check out New York Prepper, he has a video shooting 44mag +p+ in his 629classsic 44mag snubie,
@@michaelguerin4618 Thanks for the info, I'll check out the suggested channel.
I would somewhat disagree that the .44 mag is near as powerful in the top tier loads as the .454. But I get your point.
Even with a short board the 460 can shoot 454 castle.Add forty five colt but 44mag is my 1st pick
I can get a 629classsic 6inch barrel on target as quick as anything, at regular power with a cut down hard cast at 200gr it will do the job and shoot nice,
44mag 629classsic 6inch barrel
44mag 5shot model 69 3 inch barrel
357mag j Frame snubie
357mag 686+ 6inch barrel
41mag N Frame 4 inch barrel S&W
I would not use a single action Revolver, and I would not use an Auto pistol, and I would never have less than 3 guns, all stainless steel, no air weights as i have one with a cracked Frame,
But an M1 Carbine 30cal would do just fine,
I’d take my.22 pistol and my Pocket knife lol
That .22 better be in .22 WMR!
@superdavekc5vmq I guess they don't call you "Super Dave" for nothing! I suppose as long as you put either one in the bears eye...
Since 2007 had Ruger Alaskan. 454
7,5 could be better plinker😂.
S&w 19 2,5 with 158g and skinny factory crips. It’s not fun too
Great video. How do you feel about the BFR 45-70 for bear defense?
What about the 500 bushwhacker BFR?
Sean, what's your intake of BFR sort barrel in 45/70 or 450 Bushmaster?
Desert Eagles are an Unreliable Novelty... I'd never depend on that platform...
Tie one firmly enough on the the end of a piece of stout hickory, give it to a MLB batter.......
Top 5 implements to correct an unfunny YT presenter? Done by the Editor?, (I'm sure she is a Good Sport about it). Hope Y'all are doing well from 10 rounds of 45 G.A.P. country, (California)
First off. If you went to Alaska to try and shoot a Kodiak Bear, you would have to either fly or take a boat to Kodiak Island, because, this is the only place to find Kodiak bears. You lost me when you chose the 454 casull over the 460. Why not go with a Rock? Opinions are opinions, even if they are wrong...the world if full of them.
6:38
I see you have the 10mm as a pass, but what about the 40 Super? Granted it's still a 10mm bullet, but the extra 200fps+ should be Worth something shouldn't it?
From what I've heard is that the 40 super has reliability issues and ammo issues too. Can't think of anything else about that cartridge.
It's a fudd list made by a fudd
I dunno. It seems like hyper velocity not only doesn't always result in better penetration but often less even with hard cast.
It seems that a heavy hard cast Keith driven to 1000-1200fps penetrates a lot of critter. So for manageable follow up shots a .44mag or +P .45 Colt (or light 454) is a pretty good choice.
So cost no object I suppose I would pick a heavy stout 44 or 454.
Another option I would want to explore is the heavy 357 loads with 200gr or higher bullets. Having the advantage of capacity of 8 in some DA revolvers might be an advantage. I would like to see some serious penetration testing of .357, .44, and.45 loads of the same SD and bullet construction. The engineer in me wants to know.😊
Didnt know the 9mm and 10 was pretty much the same.
@Hammerback972 - I'm not sure how the video conveyed that, but I apologize. This couldn't be further from the truth. There is a major power difference and I was illustrating that if a man with a 9mm dropped a Kodiak bear, a 10mm should be able to as well
The 9mm is a 0.355" bullet with a 19mm long casing w/max chamber pressure of 35,000 PSI (38,500 PSI for +P loads). The 10mm is a 0.400" bullet in a 25mm long casing w/max chamber pressure of 37,500 PSI. Comparing the Buffalo Bore Outdoorsman loadings, the 9mm +P load shoots a 147gr. hard-cast lead bullet at 1,100 fps, generating 395 ft.-lbs. of muzzle energy. The 10mm load is a 220gr. hard-cast lead bullet at 1,200 fps generating 704 ft.-lbs. of muzzle energy. That is a 78% increase in energy! The 10mm is almost twice as powerful.
To illustrate, the .357magnum in its greatest potential is just a pinch more powerful than the 10mm in its greatest potential. The difference won't be any practical measurement that anyone would care about. But one larger difference is the fact .357magnum keeps climbing velocity significantly with longer and longer barrels (Buffalo Bore shows up to 2,153 fps with 158gr, or 1,627 ft-lb!!). By comparison 10mm is typically loaded with faster burn powder.
Finally thank you lol
This rational is all wrong. The big bore contenders are your worst pick. Because you can only get one round off in time with them if you’re lucky. Because the recoil is so hard that your recovery time is horrible. Your #1 pick is the worst pick. Because all that power in a small frame revolver is so hard to handle & unmanageable in a timely fashion. It’s not all about power.
They’re finding from real-life situations that you can get more rounds on target quicker with 10mm, or .460R, is best in an auto platform; or .44 mag or .480 in a revolver. All else are just heavy paperweights. It’s not all just about power. One who says that have never been in a real life Bear incident. If they were, they would change their mind quickly.
School’s out boys.
Depending on the area you only will have time to get one shot off.
From what I have gathered, most time you only have 1-3 shots. I can see the value of power.
Im confused about 2 things you said. If 475 linbaugh is better penetrator why would you the 500 linebaugh as #1. Maybe im mistaken but when it comes to big animals isn't penetration more important then hydrostatic shock?2nd thing is you cant rely on 1 shot to kill any bear specially when it comes from out of now where. Wouldn't the 460 make more sense then the 500. For follow up shots and basically the same thing as 454 casull but more powder. So even shorter barrel should push that bullet a little faster then a 454 casull in same barrel length. I do get a 454 casull does come in a more packable pistol and more likely to be carried. Im honestly curious about this.
The 460 has similar recoil force too the 500 but has more muzzle lift and recoil speed. The energy of the 500s with the heavier bullets will give it weight retention and the potential of breaking heavy bones give them a little bit more room for error when the stuff hits the fan.
Below about 2200 fps, there's no fluid shock dynamics. You're down to relying on how big the hole can get, how much stuff is torn up around that hole, and if the hole went straight and deep.
@suemeade2471 I never shot the 460sw or 500 sw. Everything I read says 460 is 30% less recoil which is quite a bit. Which would make me think getting a 2nd shot be easier. But if 500 is closer to recoil then what im reading 500 makes more sense. That's kinda what I was wondering. There isn't any real account of a 1 stop shot for bears usually multiple rounds thats when they unexpectedly jump out thats why I ask.
@Noname-dw6oy - Fair questions. In video format, I'm limited on how much time I can take, so let me see if I can answer your questions more fully here. Let me start with why I'd pick the .500JRH/.500 Linebaugh over the .475 Linebaugh. I approached this video from the position of being familiar with all of the caliber options but as if I owned none of them. So, along with effectiveness, packability, and recoil characteristics, I took into account factors like finding a firearm, finding ammunition, and finding reloading components. On effectiveness, from hunters I've spoken with, all three are pretty much on-par with each-other with the .475 Linebaugh having a slight edge in penetration. The .475 gets the edge, but it's only by a couple of inches and not a dramatically different amount. Packability is identical for all as they all utilize the same revolvers. Tie. Recoil characteristics is the first noticeable change for me. My experience owning both a .475 Linebaugh and a .500 JRH is that the .475 Linebaugh is a little snappier and a little sharper. The .500 JRH is easier to shoot and get back in line for a follow-up shot. The 500s get the edge. Revolver options are the same with the exception of the .475 Linebaugh being offered in the Freedom Arms Model 83 where the .500JRH & .500 Linebaugh are not. BUT... The Model 83 is basically a custom revolver including the price tag, so you might as well get a custom-made .500 JRH/Linebaugh. Tie. In terms of ammunition, all three rounds are only produced by specialty manufacturers. Tie. Then there is the reloading situation, and here's where things change. The .475 Linebaugh has readily available brass, but bullets are really rare. During the pandemic, I struggled to find ANYTHING for this round. The .500 Linebaugh has readily available brass, but if you're in a pinch, it can be MADE from .50 Alaskan brass, .50-110 WCF brass, or even .348 Winchester brass. The 0.509" - 0.512" bullets needed are a little scarce, but you can always find something. The .500 JRH brass is only at Buffalo Bore and is very expensive, but .500 S&W Magnum brass is readily available and can be cut down to the JRH with ease. The MRI BFR revolver even has the recessed case-head area in the cylinder cut so you can specifically use the .500 S&W Magnum brass! And since the .500 S&W Magnum is so popular, bullets that are 0.499" to 0.501" are a breeze to find! Meaning loading your own is a lot easier for both rounds over the .475 Linebaugh. So, that's why I gave the edge to the two 500s. They have performance that will get the job done, almost as good on penetration, easier to live with recoil, and much easier to find reloading components for which means more practice with it.
In the case of the .460 S&W Magnum, here's why I gave it a complete pass against the .500 S&W Magnum. Let me show first why I'd take the .454 Casull over the .460 S&W Magnum though, as I saw you had questions there. Unlike a .38 Special +P which has a chamber pressure max of 20,000 PSI and a .357 Magnum which has a chamber pressure max of 35,000 PSI, which creates a dramatic difference despite shortening the barrels, the .454 Casull and the .460 S&W Magnum have the same max chamber pressure of 65,000 PSI. This means that the only difference between the two cartridges is the amount of powder. The more powder you have to burn, the more barrel length you need to efficiently burn all of it for use. Once you start chopping the barrel length of the revolvers, the difference in velocity between the two starts to get narrower and narrower as the .460 now has more powder that just gets blown out the barrel as flame. I have a .45-70 BFR that consistently loses 300+ fps over the same load out of a rifle (18.5" barrel rifle versus 7.5" barrel revolver). So while there will certainly be a small difference in velocities, both calibers getting shot out of a 5" barrel will be close enough in velocities that it's not worth the extra weight, size, and recoil to me. I'd prefer to just use the .454 Casull, mean recoil and all. I will also be able to use a Super Redhawk that gets 6 shots instead of 5.
When compared to the .500 S&W Magnum, here's why I would prefer to the .460 S&W Magnum. It has bigger bullets that make bigger wound channels. It can use heavier bullets that are more likely to go through tough muscle and bones. Compared to other .50 calibers, it increases case length by 0.225" and uses a chamber pressure increase of 10,000 to 15,000 PSI which will help burn that powder charge more efficiently. The .460 S&W Magnum increases cartridge length by 0.417" over the .454 Casull but keeps the same chamber pressure meaning it won't burn anymore efficiently. The .500 S&W Magnum has more recoil, but not significantly enough to make a big difference in follow-up shots (the X-Frames control muzzle rise on both calibers very well which is the main factor there). So, with more power on tap over similar calibers, the .500 S&W Magnum gets the nod from me where the .460 S&W Magnum seems like a lot of extra weight, muzzle blast, noise, and loss of 1 round in the cylinder for no significant gain over a .454 Casull when using a short barrel for this purpose. In terms of hunting, the .460 S&W Magnum would be one of my first go-to rounds. I hope that clears things up a get
@@GoBigBoreOrGoHomeThanks for the explanation. Makes total sense.
In my personal opinion, you want .460 S&W magnum? Get a Rossi R92 454 Casull and boost that cartridge performance to levels beyond any .460 S&W magnum without the reduced tube magazine capacity. The 20" Rossi runs 240gr loads at 2,200 fps and 300gr loads at 2,000 fps, both running under 2" grouping at 50 yards, reportedly.
Or just use a 1895 SBL in .45-70. Hahaha
I'd just take bb gun😂
650 rounds in the Red Ryder, baby!!
Great video! (Lose the music)
What about the 970 swizzle- bagel? Not a fan of Swahili made revolvers? Just joking. I have to say though me and you have some pretty close opinions. I carry a 45 ACP (critical duty, 220 grain +p) or 10mm hot loads in The Great outdoors everywhere, except grizzly bear, polar bear, and moose country. I have a 200 grain load for the 10 mm thats hard cast going between 1,250 and 1275. I do all my own chronograph. Backup magazine I have in my pocket is 165 grain full metal jacket going 1,450 ft per second on average. I called those "the screamers". My setup for grizzly moose and polar bear is a 454 Casull in a chest holster, Ruger super Redhawk Alaskan, 300 grain mono metal. Now I know what you're thinking, that gun only has a two and a half inch barrel.😂 I can control The recoil on it, and even with the smaller length barrel the velocity still going between 1300 and 1350 ft per sec. I feel secure and confident with that, and I can draw the gun in record speed. Although just having a six-shooter on me I don't feel quite secure when it comes to pack animals, so with that same setup i also carry a Glock 43x concealed with extreme penetrators + p with a 15 + one mag. Besides if for some reason I go through those six shots, whether it be I miss which I doubt but.... or it's a grizzly bear on cocaine like that movie, I can rapid-fire the extreme penetrators out of my concealed carry as back up. Never sneer at a backup gun 😅😅.
If you fire 6 shots at a charging grizzly from a 2 1/2" .454?
@@johncoleman2495 yes...... Is your vague question insinuating that it's not powerful enough or with the six shots or it is powerful enough with one to six shots?
.454 was running 65k psi 45 years b4 the .460
I was going to unsub if I saw the 10mm get a Pack. So overrated.
@SoManyHobbies365 I have to agree! I remember people dismissing the 10mm 15 years ago, then coming to see it as potent and useful, and now it's seen as Thor's hammer. Let's be honest, it has power, but it is realistically in the same ballpark as a .357 Magnum. Against coyotes, javelina, wild boar, wolves, and mountain lions, I'd feel confident with the 10mm. Black bear is pushing it to me, and I'd rather step up to at least a .41 Magnum. Against Kodiak bear? I'm not taking the chance if I have better options. I know some people will trust it there, but I'll grab my Marlin .45-70 and my BFR in .500 JRH. Granted, a good .454 Casull would certainly put me at ease, too.