It be cool if this was broken up into shorter videos but appreciate the content. I have one comment no one should be dieting on ridiculously high amounts of fat burning drugs and needing to do two and three hours of cardio a day and if they are they’re getting too fat in the off-season and are desperately trying to win a competition. It’s sad that the sport of bodybuilding has these things happen and that people want to win so desperately that they’ll do anything to win. If you’re not able to get in shape doing reasonable levels of cardio and taking reasonable amounts of drugs the person shouldn’t be doing the competition in the first place it’s not worth it clearly as indicated in this video
Well said. I agree with what Greg said. Did this coach really have 4 or more athletes using his instruction and protocol that died? Were they all females? Because its scientifically known that females are healthier at a higher bodyfat % than men, for example healthy at 20% and going low causes serious changes and losing their periods, whereas men can can be 10% naturally, depending some on genetics and background, and go lower without the same disruptions and with more ease than females can. This female bodybuilder who unfortunately passed away looked extremely ripped to an unhealthy way, she had also had covid recently, but despite the full medical report and cause of death not being published yet, the ifbb has issued statements about changing criteria for judging and less emphasis on conditioning, I dont think it should be applied to all classes. Males are able to go much lower in bodyfat vs women, so if anything they should judge women less on extreme conditioning to make a change, and possibly test and disqualify for diuretics in all, but mens classes should still value and respect excellent conditioning for men when done very well but excluding the use of diuretics. If we know 4 or 5 competing have dropped dead, but he has a client turnover and many of the 480 a month quit leaving the sport, we have no idea how many had near deaths and how many have died so far after leaving and not competing. we would never know the stats unless we had a full list of all his ex clients and could check who has died so far and what the bad health conditions of the remaining is at this point.
@@gsoe2132 He usually does break them up first and releases them slowly just like Coach Greg suggested and for the same reason, and then he releases the full podcast. But this one he just did the long podcast and released immediately instead, probably because he considered it important and relevant to get out the chat out soon as possible because the dangerous practices of this coach and the death that just occured, to warn and prevent more immediate deaths right now.
It’s also criminal negligence at a minimum. He could be sued civilly for damages and put in jail for a myriad of offences. I am shocked that this guy has never been put n front of a judge
One of the main reasons I've never competed in bodybuilding is protocols like thi.s I know too many people that were injured and a few dead. This guy should never be allowed to coach anyone ever again. And should be dragged in front of a judge. Talk about being a heartless POS.
Leo, you must sleep well knowing that digging into these kinds of stories and putting all this knowledge out there, will save more lives than any of us will know. A very big thank you for what you are doing for others and the community man. God bless
Man the reality of bodybuilding needs to be told! Not every coach is the same , but what really happens behind the scenes , we are fortunate that Leo is bringing this content to us! Thank you sir , hope to see some more of this!
Told to who? People who don’t care about the sport and have no interest in it what so ever? If not them then who? We all know what goes off in bodybuilding mate it’s no secret. And there’s no point telling us who watch the sport because we already know. Don’t understand your comment to be honest.
@@thetoad7367 I was saying from awareness point of view , some of us are beginners in this sport who don't have any coach and looking for good coach , so through this , and knowledge about what to take or not , will help us take better decisions or even gain some knowledge as I didn't know about diuretics as much as I know now through this video!
The idea that bodybuilders would take loop diuretics blows my mind! We give that for emergency hypertension and pulmonary edema! None the less combining diuretics! Of all the systems you don’t want to mess with, you don’t want to mess with your heart-kidney axis!
Yeah absolutely, I always tell other BBers whether its people ive helped or coach, or friends that you should honestly just stay away from ALL loop diuretics but especially if you(or your coach) do not understand their mechanism of action. If a coach ever told me to take lasix or bumex, id immediately take that as a sign that they dont have any idea what theyre doing and are just tossing drugs out to "see what sticks", I really cannot think of a single reason why loop diuretics would be even remotely necessary for a BBer, not only is sparingly using something like dyazide safer but it also makes far more sense when you consider what a BBer is using a diuretic for.
Something to keep in mind also is that drugs do not elicit their respective effects in a vacuum. In other words, they can cause unintended and unanticipated effects in the body. For example, I’ve heard competitors talk about “clen” being a beta-2 agonist… right… and at what dose does it also become a beta-1 agonist?!
Could a prosecutor go for practicing without a license? Can a disclaimer save him from any and all charges connected to recommending such diets and protocols?
Since I had to search for it, and so y'all know, the woman panelist's name is Stephanie Flesher. The competitor who passed away was Alena Kosinová, RIP
I'm going to start training harder through the winter and getting ready for next spring and summer so I'll probably join for weight training and nutrition. I'm 50 6'1" 190# 34 inch waist and trying to stay at 190# but reduce my waist to 32 inches by next spring. I respond very well to training and diet but as being older training will be different than before due to age and goals. I'm going to need help with training and food
700 cals 2h cardio AT 12 WEEKS OUT!?!? I dropped my coffee cup and almost broke it. This is not ok. NO ONE SHOULD DO THIS. I won NPC Nationals 2020 and earned my Pro card still drinking a gallon of water and calories were maybe 1600 towards the end. 40 min cardio 6x weekly, no unnatural diuretics. I could have been leaner, sure. but I was peeled AND that shows how much flexibility I had going in. Cheat meals all the way to 2-3 wk out from the show. I trained HARD all the way with shocking low supplementation. I was fresh and ready. I won my class and overalls twice* in one year without anything extreme like this. On a huge stage. It doesn't have to be like this.
The not having water for that long is insane! The diuretics being abused is overkill also. If you can’t get a client in contest shape without just a little dyazide or none at all you have no business coaching clients.
0:00 Intro 1:45 Housekeeping/ Bostin’s forum and upcoming interviews 2:43 What prompted this discussion 4:32 Stephanie’s story 9:51 The dangers of diuretics 12:46 Why it is important to bring this information to light 14:30 Incentives of coaching 16:04 The call between Leo and Shelby 19:48 Deaths caused by Shelby 21:19 Shelby on coaching women 22:13 What Shelby lied about 23:54 Dangerous diuretics protocols/ Diuretics and kidney damage 25:52 Kidney tests: Kidney ultrasound, Creatinine, Cystatin C,symmetric dimethylarginine 26:35 The aftermath of Jodie’s show 26:58 Shelby’s death recipe: T3, Clen and DNP 30:56 Stephanie on Shelby’s clients and eating disorders 33:17 Shelby not taking accountability 35:52 Why don’t people know about dangerous coaches? 38:26 Stephanie on Shelby as a person 42:26 Shelby’s androgen protocols 43:23 Shelby’s ex on what happened to her 46:16 Why does Shelby do what he does? 48:00 What shelby had her run 52:30 What pushed her over the edge 54:06 Bad coaches copy pasting plans (Shane Heugly) 56:24 Shelby’s psychology 1:01:26 Coaches not explaining health concerns to athletes 1:02:26 Leo on why Letrozole is dangerous 1:04:49 Accidental damage vs stupid protocols 1:05:35 Bostin on taking anti estrogen compounds 1:06:55 More on Letrozole 1:09:45 Bodybuilding vs powerlifting 1:10:29 Enzymatic inhibition of estrogen and epigenetic changes 1:11:27 The importance of spreading awareness 1:13:53 Athletes and coaches not understanding drug interactions or how bodies react to drugs 1:15:35 A friend asked Shelby’s ex about a terrifying cycle 1:17:02 The promoters dodging responsibilities 1:17:54 Bostin on judging based on conditioning 1:19:45 How many kidneys has Shelby ruined 1:21:04 Stephanie’s purpose in speaking out 1:21:52 Bostin on the branching effect of bad coaches 1:23:05 Shelby’s tasteless post 1:24:05 Leo clarifying why he focuses on heart and kidney damage 1:25:44 Stephanie got a message from Shelby 1:28:26 Leo’s reminder to the audience on tests to take Kidneys: Creatinine, Cystatin C, Symmetric dimethylarginine Kidney ultrasound Heart: Cardiac FMRI 1:29:20 How to remodel the heart/ Manslaughter 1:31:16 Leo on how the IFBB should take responsibility 1:32:52 Shelby’s ex on the burden of proof
So my brother is a coach. He Lebanese Boston knows him, sent him a program and didn’t take any payment from boston. Point being he had a woman in her 40’s do a show maybe 4 weeks ago. She ran 10mg anavar per day, 1iu gh morning and night and can’t remember one other small dose of something no diuretics at all. Lady won the show. FOOD IS EVERYTHING
The caller who stayed anonymous saying, “I don’t want to drag anyone’s name through the mud and fuck with anyones money”. Maybe if you had you could have helped to save these women’s LIVES.
Listen to the two clients of his here. They're constantly minimizing his lack of responsibility and what seems malicious protocols and talking about how they don't want to get him in trouble. It's like a cult. This is how they operate. Dear Leader. even when he abuses his power, or kills people, is really a good guy! It's his followers who weren't good enough to stand up to him, know when to stop etc etc. The psychological issues around this weird coach/client 'relationship' and within this 'sport' are very, very twisted and odd. I imagine because just about everyone is fucking about with legally-dubious pharmaceuticals in a comical amateur half hour without any real credentials in licencing in medicine or in pharmacology enough to understand why they shouldn't be (it just seems for the most part like a sport f ... on wikipedia), it creates a little in-group that feels compelled not to betray their circle and sport by going to the police(the out group, along with the rest of society) when the in-group starts dropping dead due to maliciously irresponsible practice. These women clearly want to rock the boat, but not enough to get Shelby kicked out of the boat. Think about that.
yeah right. He is busy giving the next 100's of clients these protocols and doing check ins and then actually living his real authentic personal life and enjoyment far too much to be on "Leos and longevity podcast" for over an hour long. He has over 400 clients and his own personal life and enjoyment on top of that. This is the last thing he would be doing.
I don’t even like bodybuilding but I can listen to an hour podcast about it because of Leo and Bostins compatibility, good questions with good intent as well Leo! Good interview/podcast
You guys are such a positive force in the industry, everyone else will talk about how horrible it is she passed away, but not call this guy out, and allow him to keep doing this
Being coachable means you dont ask questions? Surely its the complete opposite. If you're coachble it means you do ask questions. Its upto the Coach to be able to explain it.
Yes bostin is a guy that ran over 10 grams of gear a week for who knows how long with crazy doses and experiments mixed in just to see what happens on top of that
Leo, you truly are the man. You are the only one putting themselves out there highlighting the dangers that surround bodybuilding/powerlifting and PED useage. Your knowledge is incredible and your empathy is just as strong. It's great that you are putting this info out and hopefully saving lives.
I know you’d rather spend time learning and discussing other interesting possibilities and topics Leo, but sometimes it’s important to clarify what can happen when you get involved with people you can’t really trust…and also that can permanently harm your health or worse. Thank you Leo, Bleu, Bostin and Stephanie! 🙏🏻👊🏻💪🏻💯
I've been pretty irresponsible with AAS over the years..... I'll be the first to admit it, but this made me feel physically sick hearing the sheer amount of drugs used and the sheer irresponsibly imposed by shelby. This needs to be put to a stop 😡
Great interview and disturbing at the same time. The only problem I have is when I hear “I don’t want to ruin anybody’s income or reputation “. This person has killed multiple people and hospitalized dozens if not hundreds, some of who probably never speak up. What about how their income, family and health have been affected? This person is a monster and DESERVES to be canceled, period
Obviously that was why, after 6 years, I was willing to talk about it. What i meant was that i wasn't doing it to be vindictive, or for attention, or whatever. I left the personal stuff out and stuck to the facts of my experience.
This occurs with local ‘coaches’ also. BEWARE guys! If you don’t know what your doing, seem someone in the industry who has integrity and ask them to take a look at the doses your taking. Speaking from experience...
Leo, I'm so grateful to you and Bostin for sharing such important information. You're arming people with information to save their own lives! Thanks for shining a bright light on a topic so relevant for women, too. 🙏
Thank you again for spreading the awareness of this subject. In really appreciative of this "series" of exposing bad coaching. Just as you guys mentioned as a rebuttal to shelby saying that women are more coachable, is it more that they know less because female androgen use and shoe prep pharmacology is much less understood and a lot more daunting. Keep it up guys. Thank you the the guest, and all those that couldnt attend because of time restraints, not wanting the publicity, or those that couldnt speak up before losing their lives. Lets keep our women feminine, healthy, and most importantly ALIVE! You guys are becoming legends for this sport. Leo im very happy with how you have directed your content in this way, you are an incredible educator, you can admit if you are wrong on something or if you changed your mind, you arent afraid to admit if you don't know something about a subject, and you will do great things beyond what you have already achieved. You have a knack for finding good friends to bring on the show, especially those that bring not only their personalities, but great information to help everyone of us. I know i haven't always agreed with you on everything, but my respect for what you are doing is growing with every podcast and video you produce. Thank you for doing what you love. John Meadows would be very proud of the work you are continuing to put in. And considering you believe he is still out there (as do i, just in a different manner religiously than you do) he is certainly happy with what you are doing.
Thans for explaining all the chemicals and drugs Leo, for us non competitors it's just a bunch of terms so I highly appreciate you explaining both the medical description and the PED part of those drugs👏🏻👏🏻
Just 40 minutes into the podcast and i can't even imagine what his other clients had to go through daily while taking all that shit. This person is the modern version of Joseph Mengele and should be completely removed from this sport.
Thanks Leo for the in depth tests to assess my kidney health status. Not a steroid user but have had symptoms and issues with kidneys for a while. This content is a gold mine of knowledge
There’s literally no money in bodybuilding at all none of these competitors are making anything and they’re literally killing theirselves to win it’s absolutely insane beyond belief! I seriously can’t believe it! Dying for a trophy!!!!
They're dying because they have a mental illness that isn't being treated. It's the same thing as the people who go crazy with plastic surgery and totally ruin themselves in the process.
@@panilssonmsc9636 remember dinitros DNP from 2006? 400 I was sitting on my balcony eating popsicles at 1am, then you would have these explosive shits lol.
Great content guys. Love Bostin…he has his flaws as everyone does. After following him for many years, he tends to speak with his heart before he thinks things through. That can be good and bad at times, also many people cannot see past those things and therefore form a false opinion about the man he is. Long time follower, Bostin! Thanks for the fantastic information and keep spreading the word fellas. Cheers
Cant wait to watch this is a bit. Thanks for covering this, like serious thanks 🙏🏼 I don’t know any of these people personally but clearly something tragically wrong is happening and concern needs to be at the forefront.
I think what is more shocking , is how so many leave things like this in the hands of a stranger and do not do their due diligence to check what the heck they putting into their bodies. Wow, just search the freakin internet and do some reading than to leave it entirely in someone(a coaches) hands. I get it , people look to these "gurus" but cmon man , take responsibility of your body.
I understand this concern and I don’t disagree that one shouldn’t do due diligence on what is going into you and it’s possible effects, but you should be able to trust your coach to the utmost. Having winning clients shouldn’t take precedence over health and a lot of clients frankly don’t have near that level of knowledge and understanding to even begin to know. Huge learning curve here.
It's not like you can have a deep understanding of hormones and interactions and diuretics with an hour of Google research. You hire someone because you expect that from them right?!
This is mainly directed @ Leo since it has more to due with the psychology of someone like Shelby: Maybe some people may think this is jumping to conclusions, but I think its an interesting question to pose after listening to the full podcast...at what point do we consider the idea that Shelby isnt just putting girls on these absurd, non sensical, dangerous protocols for the sole goal of getting them in condition to win, what if theres also a more insidious reason on top of that? Shelby doesnt seem like a dumb guy, im SURE he has a pretty decent understanding of how many of these compounds affect the body and their mechanism of action, given hes been in the world of BBing for a while now. And if you know how these compounds work and cant feign ignorance about them, it begs the question...how on earth can you tell people to follow some of these outrageous protocols? Especially since going to the extent of doing things like well over 100mcg t3, well over 100mcg clen, 400+mg DNP at once, on top of multiple androgens and HUGE doses of Letro for a woman(I mean even for a guy on aromatizing compounds 2.5mg is A TON) whilst having them on
This is single-handedly the greatest bodybuilding podcast out. The help you guys provide is absolutely amazing and something that should desire emulation 💪🏼
Great video guys, as always quality content from Leo! The amount of drugs stated in this video is complete insanity. I shed a tear for all the hearts and kidneys that have been damaged!
So are we not going to touch on the fact that the client should also hold themselves accountable for knowing what they're taking? In bodybuilding you're taking drugs that knowingly cause damage, if you do not do your own research then you yourself are also at fault. This person is a coach, not your parent. This isn't a "because I told you so" scenario where you have to do what they say even without knowing what you're doing. It is also your responsibility to do your own research and thinking as well. We pay these coaches to do the thinking as far as diet and drugs go but ignorance is not bliss in this, that never means just do anything they say because you don't have the "courage" to ask why or to simply look this up on the internet. This isn't dismissing what happened, this is for the comment that was made in the video early on. TLDR; Hold your own self accountable for what the coach is having you do as well, we're grown ass adults. Don't know? Ask, research.
Researching can be time consuming and difficult, hence why people hire coaches. If your hire a contractor to build a house, and the house collapses and kills you, who’s fault is it? Should the client have done more research into architectural engineering? Anyway, this issue is bigger than arguing about who to blame and is more about questioning the ethos of the sport as a whole.
The sad part was the Ex sounding more like she was sad about her physique getting ruined over the health ramifications. This guy is the devil, but its crazy to me how many people were willing to make a deal with the devil at the top levels of this "sport".
this the best fitness awareness video i have seen , im only halfway through it, sounds like someone is getting away with murder , this should be a warning to all you people who want to do steroids and weight cutting agents this shelby character should be investigated
Man I've watched Bostin since he was younger years and years ago. He's always brought shit up and nobody listens. He mentioned people died, nobody listened. lol crazy
Interesting and valuable discussion. No one wants death or health issues in bodybuilding but the folks here are all ignoring the most important aspect. PERSONAL ACCOUNTABILITY. Whacky protocols aside, if anyone just listens and follows someone who says don’t drink ANY water for 24-48 hours is too dumb to be competing in bodybuilding. People can be influenced especially when they’re driving for a goal but it’s not hidden knowledge that MOST women (and frankly men) in bodybuilding are insecure and have mental health issues. Those are the same folks who shouldn’t be taking ANY bodybuilding drugs and are not mentally good candidates to deal with the challenges of contest prep. Bodybuilding attracts a fringe non conformist type women (more so than men) who is seeking a sense of belonging and value. Those are mentally the type of women who will push the limit to feel valued even when they know better or their body tells them otherwise. Bodybuilding is RISKY. The risks aren’t hidden. It’s an extreme competition/lifestyle. It’s YOUR responsibility for what YOU choose to put in your body.
I asked you what accountability lies on the ifbb and judges? Did adding back women's body building help did it do what they wanted it to should there be a serious discussion beyond trainers and athletes into the actual outline of the competition?
@@seanlavin2281 I agree. But no accountability lies on the judges unless you’re talking about the success of women’s bodybuilding and it’s marketability (or lack thereof). I like women’s bodybuilding and I admire the unique looks of muscle on a woman. But it’s not supposed to be turning them into men. It should be judged on the total package (face, hair, suit, posing, confidence etc) not just physique development. The judging just need to have a standard that doesn’t reward insane condition/dryness if it’s at the expense of health/beauty
While I do sympathize with so many of the people that participated in this video and commented, I am just here to say that this was not my experience of being coached by Shelby Starnes at all. It was positive all the way and I never felt I was in any danger at all at any time. He answered questions thoroughly and was so prompt with his feedback. He was kind and supportive and coaches others who are “natural” too and choose to be. We all have choices and responsibility for our own care.
Hello guys, thanks for this podcast, Alena was from my country, informations what we got are horrible, she used to take diuretics whole final week in her prep....
Calling out these reckless "coaches" with blood on their hands is something, that I`m fully on board with, but could somebody explain to me, how one can be on good terms with Chad Nicholls, whilst rightfully denouncing Shelby Starnes? In regards to their body counts these two barely differ from one another, so why are there multiple videos on this channel, that depict Chad and Leo having a lighthearted conversation?
man this one was really hard to watch... this coach NEEDS to be stopped.. When they were talking about the people dying in their hotel rooms, alone, while on prep.. sounds AWFUL
Join Bostin's forum at www.bigdaddyb.com/members
this hasn't aged well
Having coached many women myself, I'm appalled and disgusted hearing these kinds of protocols!!
Yeah Mr Steve it is really disgusting…
Problem is these coaches think they are doctors with there '''Protocols"
Shelby starnes... the kidney puncher
Man, atleast I'm sure Steve's iced balls protocol is safe.
@@AbsolutelyNerdy ecdy/turk + iced balls protocol for the win
It be cool if this was broken up into shorter videos but appreciate the content. I have one comment no one should be dieting on ridiculously high amounts of fat burning drugs and needing to do two and three hours of cardio a day and if they are they’re getting too fat in the off-season and are desperately trying to win a competition. It’s sad that the sport of bodybuilding has these things happen and that people want to win so desperately that they’ll do anything to win. If you’re not able to get in shape doing reasonable levels of cardio and taking reasonable amounts of drugs the person shouldn’t be doing the competition in the first place it’s not worth it clearly as indicated in this video
Mr doctor is out here dropping knowledge👌🏽
Well said. I agree with what Greg said. Did this coach really have 4 or more athletes using his instruction and protocol that died? Were they all females? Because its scientifically known that females are healthier at a higher bodyfat % than men, for example healthy at 20% and going low causes serious changes and losing their periods, whereas men can can be 10% naturally, depending some on genetics and background, and go lower without the same disruptions and with more ease than females can. This female bodybuilder who unfortunately passed away looked extremely ripped to an unhealthy way, she had also had covid recently, but despite the full medical report and cause of death not being published yet, the ifbb has issued statements about changing criteria for judging and less emphasis on conditioning, I dont think it should be applied to all classes. Males are able to go much lower in bodyfat vs women, so if anything they should judge women less on extreme conditioning to make a change, and possibly test and disqualify for diuretics in all, but mens classes should still value and respect excellent conditioning for men when done very well but excluding the use of diuretics. If we know 4 or 5 competing have dropped dead, but he has a client turnover and many of the 480 a month quit leaving the sport, we have no idea how many had near deaths and how many have died so far after leaving and not competing. we would never know the stats unless we had a full list of all his ex clients and could check who has died so far and what the bad health conditions of the remaining is at this point.
Sir doctor. Time stamps are in the description to make it easier.
He usually breaks it up and puts out shorter clips
@@gsoe2132 He usually does break them up first and releases them slowly just like Coach Greg suggested and for the same reason, and then he releases the full podcast. But this one he just did the long podcast and released immediately instead, probably because he considered it important and relevant to get out the chat out soon as possible because the dangerous practices of this coach and the death that just occured, to warn and prevent more immediate deaths right now.
Keep exposing these coaches Leo. This is extremely important for anyone looking to hire coaching
The irresponsibility is on a sociopathic level.
In all of bodybuilding honestly it's just getting more and more insane
It’s also criminal negligence at a minimum. He could be sued civilly for damages and put in jail for a myriad of offences. I am shocked that this guy has never been put n front of a judge
One of the main reasons I've never competed in bodybuilding is protocols like thi.s I know too many people that were injured and a few dead. This guy should never be allowed to coach anyone ever again. And should be dragged in front of a judge. Talk about being a heartless POS.
@@leftphilange69 it has to be. One death is one too many, but four?!
Dave palumbo killed me bc of his protocol
Leo, you must sleep well knowing that digging into these kinds of stories and putting all this knowledge out there, will save more lives than any of us will know.
A very big thank you for what you are doing for others and the community man. God bless
I love how Leo is so attentive and taking notes. Super respectful and compassionate communicator
Man the reality of bodybuilding needs to be told! Not every coach is the same , but what really happens behind the scenes , we are fortunate that Leo is bringing this content to us! Thank you sir , hope to see some more of this!
@@rockon8174 there is a difference between being ripped and stage conditioning
Told to who? People who don’t care about the sport and have no interest in it what so ever? If not them then who? We all know what goes off in bodybuilding mate it’s no secret. And there’s no point telling us who watch the sport because we already know. Don’t understand your comment to be honest.
@@thetoad7367 I was saying from awareness point of view , some of us are beginners in this sport who don't have any coach and looking for good coach , so through this , and knowledge about what to take or not , will help us take better decisions or even gain some knowledge as I didn't know about diuretics as much as I know now through this video!
Love it when you drop the full podcasts first.
The idea that bodybuilders would take loop diuretics blows my mind! We give that for emergency hypertension and pulmonary edema! None the less combining diuretics! Of all the systems you don’t want to mess with, you don’t want to mess with your heart-kidney axis!
Thanks and Please comment more. We need more drs interacting for harm reduction measures.
🙌
Yeah absolutely, I always tell other BBers whether its people ive helped or coach, or friends that you should honestly just stay away from ALL loop diuretics but especially if you(or your coach) do not understand their mechanism of action. If a coach ever told me to take lasix or bumex, id immediately take that as a sign that they dont have any idea what theyre doing and are just tossing drugs out to "see what sticks", I really cannot think of a single reason why loop diuretics would be even remotely necessary for a BBer, not only is sparingly using something like dyazide safer but it also makes far more sense when you consider what a BBer is using a diuretic for.
@@23ADJ93 many doctors will just recommend to discontinue all gear
Something to keep in mind also is that drugs do not elicit their respective effects in a vacuum. In other words, they can cause unintended and unanticipated effects in the body. For example, I’ve heard competitors talk about “clen” being a beta-2 agonist… right… and at what dose does it also become a beta-1 agonist?!
Lawyers would call what he’s doing “criminal negligence”
Could a prosecutor go for practicing without a license? Can a disclaimer save him from any and all charges connected to recommending such diets and protocols?
With the intent to do serious bodily harm!!
Women are NOT small children, women are listening to this guy. Women should be accountable for being downs
Since I had to search for it, and so y'all know, the woman panelist's name
is Stephanie Flesher. The competitor who passed away was Alena Kosinová, RIP
bostin has a great forum
Agreed. 2nd that for sure
Been thinking about joining but not sure if I can get help with what I need. I only have problems finding one thing
@@alexmasak7735 I wish people like you were screened and not allowed to join
It’s not just for sources. There’s a lot of info there. Get on and find out.
I'm going to start training harder through the winter and getting ready for next spring and summer so I'll probably join for weight training and nutrition. I'm 50 6'1" 190# 34 inch waist and trying to stay at 190# but reduce my waist to 32 inches by next spring. I respond very well to training and diet but as being older training will be different than before due to age and goals. I'm going to need help with training and food
700 cals 2h cardio AT 12 WEEKS OUT!?!? I dropped my coffee cup and almost broke it. This is not ok. NO ONE SHOULD DO THIS. I won NPC Nationals 2020 and earned my Pro card still drinking a gallon of water and calories were maybe 1600 towards the end. 40 min cardio 6x weekly, no unnatural diuretics. I could have been leaner, sure. but I was peeled AND that shows how much flexibility I had going in. Cheat meals all the way to 2-3 wk out from the show. I trained HARD all the way with shocking low supplementation. I was fresh and ready. I won my class and overalls twice* in one year without anything extreme like this. On a huge stage. It doesn't have to be like this.
The not having water for that long is insane! The diuretics being abused is overkill also. If you can’t get a client in contest shape without just a little dyazide or none at all you have no business coaching clients.
0:00 Intro
1:45 Housekeeping/ Bostin’s forum and upcoming interviews
2:43 What prompted this discussion
4:32 Stephanie’s story
9:51 The dangers of diuretics
12:46 Why it is important to bring this information to light
14:30 Incentives of coaching
16:04 The call between Leo and Shelby
19:48 Deaths caused by Shelby
21:19 Shelby on coaching women
22:13 What Shelby lied about
23:54 Dangerous diuretics protocols/ Diuretics and kidney damage
25:52 Kidney tests: Kidney ultrasound, Creatinine, Cystatin C,symmetric dimethylarginine
26:35 The aftermath of Jodie’s show
26:58 Shelby’s death recipe: T3, Clen and DNP
30:56 Stephanie on Shelby’s clients and eating disorders
33:17 Shelby not taking accountability
35:52 Why don’t people know about dangerous coaches?
38:26 Stephanie on Shelby as a person
42:26 Shelby’s androgen protocols
43:23 Shelby’s ex on what happened to her
46:16 Why does Shelby do what he does?
48:00 What shelby had her run
52:30 What pushed her over the edge
54:06 Bad coaches copy pasting plans (Shane Heugly)
56:24 Shelby’s psychology
1:01:26 Coaches not explaining health concerns to athletes
1:02:26 Leo on why Letrozole is dangerous
1:04:49 Accidental damage vs stupid protocols
1:05:35 Bostin on taking anti estrogen compounds
1:06:55 More on Letrozole
1:09:45 Bodybuilding vs powerlifting
1:10:29 Enzymatic inhibition of estrogen and epigenetic changes
1:11:27 The importance of spreading awareness
1:13:53 Athletes and coaches not understanding drug interactions or how bodies react to drugs
1:15:35 A friend asked Shelby’s ex about a terrifying cycle
1:17:02 The promoters dodging responsibilities
1:17:54 Bostin on judging based on conditioning
1:19:45 How many kidneys has Shelby ruined
1:21:04 Stephanie’s purpose in speaking out
1:21:52 Bostin on the branching effect of bad coaches
1:23:05 Shelby’s tasteless post
1:24:05 Leo clarifying why he focuses on heart and kidney damage
1:25:44 Stephanie got a message from Shelby
1:28:26 Leo’s reminder to the audience on tests to take
Kidneys: Creatinine, Cystatin C, Symmetric dimethylarginine
Kidney ultrasound
Heart: Cardiac FMRI
1:29:20 How to remodel the heart/ Manslaughter
1:31:16 Leo on how the IFBB should take responsibility
1:32:52 Shelby’s ex on the burden of proof
MVP! Thanks!
@@caball3ro You're welcome!
Nice work!
@@GVS Thank you!
Thanks I was wondering how to spell Cystatin C for Kidney testing alongside Creatine.
So my brother is a coach. He Lebanese Boston knows him, sent him a program and didn’t take any payment from boston. Point being he had a woman in her 40’s do a show maybe 4 weeks ago. She ran 10mg anavar per day, 1iu gh morning and night and can’t remember one other small dose of something no diuretics at all. Lady won the show. FOOD IS EVERYTHING
The caller who stayed anonymous saying, “I don’t want to drag anyone’s name through the mud and fuck with anyones money”. Maybe if you had you could have helped to save these women’s LIVES.
Dude's a serial killer and they're saying "we don't wanna drag anyone's name to the mud"
Who cares if he loses money at this point? Hell he should probably find a different profession
I'm amazed at the lack of liability on these coaches. How are they not getting sued or being charged criminally?
Coach and and athlete is responsible
Listen to the two clients of his here. They're constantly minimizing his lack of responsibility and what seems malicious protocols and talking about how they don't want to get him in trouble. It's like a cult. This is how they operate. Dear Leader. even when he abuses his power, or kills people, is really a good guy! It's his followers who weren't good enough to stand up to him, know when to stop etc etc. The psychological issues around this weird coach/client 'relationship' and within this 'sport' are very, very twisted and odd. I imagine because just about everyone is fucking about with legally-dubious pharmaceuticals in a comical amateur half hour without any real credentials in licencing in medicine or in pharmacology enough to understand why they shouldn't be (it just seems for the most part like a sport f ... on wikipedia), it creates a little in-group that feels compelled not to betray their circle and sport by going to the police(the out group, along with the rest of society) when the in-group starts dropping dead due to maliciously irresponsible practice. These women clearly want to rock the boat, but not enough to get Shelby kicked out of the boat. Think about that.
Women are LISTENING to these coaches, stop jumping away from women to blame men.
This is an outstanding podcast. Great job everyone 💪
You dont need DNP, you dont need extreme diuretics to get in shape. Protect yourself with knowledge dont let someone else play with your health!
Shelby is definitely watching this in his basement lol hi Shelby
Lol
yeah right. He is busy giving the next 100's of clients these protocols and doing check ins and then actually living his real authentic personal life and enjoyment far too much to be on "Leos and longevity podcast" for over an hour long. He has over 400 clients and his own personal life and enjoyment on top of that. This is the last thing he would be doing.
@@mightynathaniel5355 he will lose a lot of business from this, word is going to get out.
@@mightynathaniel5355 you must have missed the part where he called Leo right before the podcast
@@mightynathaniel5355 sup Shelby
I don’t even like bodybuilding but I can listen to an hour podcast about it because of Leo and Bostins compatibility, good questions with good intent as well Leo! Good interview/podcast
Bleu Taylor is such a good guy. I really started to like him when he was talking about his comic books and affinity for drawing.
You guys are such a positive force in the industry, everyone else will talk about how horrible it is she passed away, but not call this guy out, and allow him to keep doing this
Being coachable means you dont ask questions?
Surely its the complete opposite. If you're coachble it means you do ask questions. Its upto the Coach to be able to explain it.
Agreed
Facts bro. If a coach doesn’t want to answer your questions then move on
THIS WAS THE BEST PODCAST EVER ON REAL LIFE FEMALE BODYBUILDING,IM STUNNED AT THE DRUG USE
when Bostin Loyd says its a crazy protocol its off the chart! LOL
💯
Yes bostin is a guy that ran over 10 grams of gear a week for who knows how long with crazy doses and experiments mixed in just to see what happens on top of that
Leo, you truly are the man. You are the only one putting themselves out there highlighting the dangers that surround bodybuilding/powerlifting and PED useage. Your knowledge is incredible and your empathy is just as strong. It's great that you are putting this info out and hopefully saving lives.
I don’t deserve such high praise brother.
I know you’d rather spend time learning and discussing other interesting possibilities and topics Leo, but sometimes it’s important to clarify what can happen when you get involved with people you can’t really trust…and also that can permanently harm your health or worse. Thank you Leo, Bleu, Bostin and Stephanie! 🙏🏻👊🏻💪🏻💯
Respect to Leo and all of you for having the balls to speak out
I've been pretty irresponsible with AAS over the years..... I'll be the first to admit it, but this made me feel physically sick hearing the sheer amount of drugs used and the sheer irresponsibly imposed by shelby.
This needs to be put to a stop 😡
"Whatever protocol is written has to be explained as well." Excellent.
Sofia Graham (27 year old) was a client of his & she died in her sleep 5 days ago from a heart attack
I'm not even into this enhanced stuff and I can tell this is nuts.
Thank you guys for doing this video. Let’s keep sharing it!!! Enough is enough.
Great interview and disturbing at the same time. The only problem I have is when I hear “I don’t want to ruin anybody’s income or reputation “. This person has killed multiple people and hospitalized dozens if not hundreds, some of who probably never speak up. What about how their income, family and health have been affected? This person is a monster and DESERVES to be canceled, period
Obviously that was why, after 6 years, I was willing to talk about it. What i meant was that i wasn't doing it to be vindictive, or for attention, or whatever. I left the personal stuff out and stuck to the facts of my experience.
Blue becoming my favorite quick. Man knows how to listen and let others speak, but when he speaks everyone's silent listening.
What a great way to start my day! Thanks Leo!
The body is built to survive, this just proves it
WOW, Thank you all for this podcast, THIS podcast has opened everyone's minds!
This occurs with local ‘coaches’ also. BEWARE guys! If you don’t know what your doing, seem someone in the industry who has integrity and ask them to take a look at the doses your taking.
Speaking from experience...
Leo, I'm so grateful to you and Bostin for sharing such important information.
You're arming people with information to save their own lives! Thanks for shining a bright light on a topic so relevant for women, too. 🙏
I’m floored by all the stuff I’ve heard on this.. wow. Thanx Leo for bringing all this to light
Leo thank you for bringing this content to us. No other fitness youtuber is bringing real content like this!!
Thank you again for spreading the awareness of this subject. In really appreciative of this "series" of exposing bad coaching. Just as you guys mentioned as a rebuttal to shelby saying that women are more coachable, is it more that they know less because female androgen use and shoe prep pharmacology is much less understood and a lot more daunting. Keep it up guys. Thank you the the guest, and all those that couldnt attend because of time restraints, not wanting the publicity, or those that couldnt speak up before losing their lives. Lets keep our women feminine, healthy, and most importantly ALIVE!
You guys are becoming legends for this sport.
Leo im very happy with how you have directed your content in this way, you are an incredible educator, you can admit if you are wrong on something or if you changed your mind, you arent afraid to admit if you don't know something about a subject, and you will do great things beyond what you have already achieved. You have a knack for finding good friends to bring on the show, especially those that bring not only their personalities, but great information to help everyone of us. I know i haven't always agreed with you on everything, but my respect for what you are doing is growing with every podcast and video you produce. Thank you for doing what you love. John Meadows would be very proud of the work you are continuing to put in. And considering you believe he is still out there (as do i, just in a different manner religiously than you do) he is certainly happy with what you are doing.
Instead of music I put this on while hitting the gym and increased my bench by 40kgs. Ty Leo for the gains
Thans for explaining all the chemicals and drugs Leo, for us non competitors it's just a bunch of terms so I highly appreciate you explaining both the medical description and the PED part of those drugs👏🏻👏🏻
Yea she had an arrhythmia. From hypokalemia after peeing out all her sodium and potassium from the loop diuretics. This is insane.
I think you wanna say hyperkalemia, she went to hospital with triple levels over normal
Thank you all for putting this content out. Shelby Starnes needs to be called out BY NAME and ran out of this sport!
Just 40 minutes into the podcast and i can't even imagine what his other clients had to go through daily while taking all that shit. This person is the modern version of Joseph Mengele and should be completely removed from this sport.
Bumex is given to congestive heart failure patients when they have literally no ejection fraction whatsoever. Should never be taken for bodybuilding.
Thanks Leo for the in depth tests to assess my kidney health status. Not a steroid user but have had symptoms and issues with kidneys for a while. This content is a gold mine of knowledge
Hey Bleu, We need you to jump into the conversation!! You're one of the best coaches out there we or atleast I want to hear your thoughts!!!
And he wasn't even on his phone. Mark of a great listener and someone you can have genuine conversations with.
you can tell he was deeply listening and taking it all in and allowing them to say their piece respectfully more than anyone. Good man.
Me too
There’s literally no money in bodybuilding at all none of these competitors are making anything and they’re literally killing theirselves to win it’s absolutely insane beyond belief! I seriously can’t believe it! Dying for a trophy!!!!
They're dying because they have a mental illness that isn't being treated. It's the same thing as the people who go crazy with plastic surgery and totally ruin themselves in the process.
Some have sponsorships, the most successful i have seen is ex-bodybuilders coaching
Hey hey hey…. Sometimes it’s a sword
Absolutely insane hey. They go to edge of death just to win some stupid little show that literally no one gives a fuck about... it’s extremely bizarre
It’s not just about money people want to be shredded and look ripped and lean or ripped and big so the trophy is secondary but also desirable
Holy hell, 180mcg clenbuterol, 4-600mg DNP, and 150mcg T3??!! 🤐
I’ve done stupid shit like this when I was 19…. If you do this in your 30-40s good luck.
40mcg clen with 300-400mg dnp, would lean anyone out in 6 weeks. No need for more or longer duration.
That is just sick man, 600mg DNP is fucked up beyond imagination for me as an alone drug🙈🙈
@@panilssonmsc9636 remember dinitros DNP from 2006? 400 I was sitting on my balcony eating popsicles at 1am, then you would have these explosive shits lol.
i feel like anything over 15-20 clients its a bit too much. You should be able to answer them within hours and remember everyone's details correctly
This is unreal. I’ve gotten shredded with no clen and no T3 and max 50 min of fasted cardio. There is no need for this.
Great stuff, thanks Leo, Boston and Co.
Great content guys. Love Bostin…he has his flaws as everyone does. After following him for many years, he tends to speak with his heart before he thinks things through. That can be good and bad at times, also many people cannot see past those things and therefore form a false opinion about the man he is. Long time follower, Bostin! Thanks for the fantastic information and keep spreading the word fellas. Cheers
This show is helping the bodybuilding community so much more than all these phony youtube wannabe bodybuilders. Great stuff keep it coming
Who are these phony wanna be body builders you speak of so I can stay away from them too. Thanks
@@quantumpotential7639 insert every fake natty or inexperienced coach in the industry
When Bostin says a protocol is outrageous, you better believe it!!!
Crazy and scary 😟 hopefully the right people see this and we see a positive change in coaching.
As long as athletes want to win, there is no way to counter this in any sport not just bodybuilding.
I love the timestamps
Stephanie seems really cool!
Thank you for specifying those kidney markers Leo…
Cant wait to watch this is a bit. Thanks for covering this, like serious thanks 🙏🏼 I don’t know any of these people personally but clearly something tragically wrong is happening and concern needs to be at the forefront.
I am totally shocked. My wife used Shelby 8 years ago and had some big time health issues.
Omg buddy hope shes fine now1
I think what is more shocking , is how so many leave things like this in the hands of a stranger and do not do their due diligence to check what the heck they putting into their bodies. Wow, just search the freakin internet and do some reading than to leave it entirely in someone(a coaches) hands. I get it , people look to these "gurus" but cmon man , take responsibility of your body.
True but I’m guessing many clients don’t think their coach is playing with their life.
I understand this concern and I don’t disagree that one shouldn’t do due diligence on what is going into you and it’s possible effects, but you should be able to trust your coach to the utmost. Having winning clients shouldn’t take precedence over health and a lot of clients frankly don’t have near that level of knowledge and understanding to even begin to know. Huge learning curve here.
Learning Curve or Death. Man it makes me so angry how irresponsible people are when it comes to rheir bodies.
It's not like you can have a deep understanding of hormones and interactions and diuretics with an hour of Google research. You hire someone because you expect that from them right?!
It shocked me that this was just being brought up after 4 deaths in 2.5 years….
This is mainly directed @ Leo since it has more to due with the psychology of someone like Shelby:
Maybe some people may think this is jumping to conclusions, but I think its an interesting question to pose after listening to the full podcast...at what point do we consider the idea that Shelby isnt just putting girls on these absurd, non sensical, dangerous protocols for the sole goal of getting them in condition to win, what if theres also a more insidious reason on top of that? Shelby doesnt seem like a dumb guy, im SURE he has a pretty decent understanding of how many of these compounds affect the body and their mechanism of action, given hes been in the world of BBing for a while now. And if you know how these compounds work and cant feign ignorance about them, it begs the question...how on earth can you tell people to follow some of these outrageous protocols? Especially since going to the extent of doing things like well over 100mcg t3, well over 100mcg clen, 400+mg DNP at once, on top of multiple androgens and HUGE doses of Letro for a woman(I mean even for a guy on aromatizing compounds 2.5mg is A TON) whilst having them on
I also made a similar comment. I said is it possible this guy is getting off on hurting and killing women?
I Think you are 100% right👊👊
This is my favorite kind of podcast!!!!
Awesome content and so thankful for everyone who’s speaking up! This has to be stopped! 💯🙏🏽
Scary stuff. Your body your choice. Essentially your responsibility.
As a coach I’m sickened by this. Wow. Thank you for sharing all this information! Keep putting it out ❤
I'm from Michigan, I know Shelby, and here I thought he had some secret diet! Amazing,.!
hahahahaha
Remember he used to sell his diet e books.
Im in Michigan too… I met him at a show in 2009 he’s a really weird dude.
Well considering all those tablets of diuretics and fatburners...
I trained at the same gym as him for a few years in Michigan. Just a regular short guy on steroids who carries himself like he has money
This is single-handedly the greatest bodybuilding podcast out. The help you guys provide is absolutely amazing and something that should desire emulation 💪🏼
Brother 🙏
Great video guys, as always quality content from Leo! The amount of drugs stated in this video is complete insanity. I shed a tear for all the hearts and kidneys that have been damaged!
So are we not going to touch on the fact that the client should also hold themselves accountable for knowing what they're taking? In bodybuilding you're taking drugs that knowingly cause damage, if you do not do your own research then you yourself are also at fault. This person is a coach, not your parent. This isn't a "because I told you so" scenario where you have to do what they say even without knowing what you're doing. It is also your responsibility to do your own research and thinking as well. We pay these coaches to do the thinking as far as diet and drugs go but ignorance is not bliss in this, that never means just do anything they say because you don't have the "courage" to ask why or to simply look this up on the internet. This isn't dismissing what happened, this is for the comment that was made in the video early on.
TLDR; Hold your own self accountable for what the coach is having you do as well, we're grown ass adults. Don't know? Ask, research.
Researching can be time consuming and difficult, hence why people hire coaches. If your hire a contractor to build a house, and the house collapses and kills you, who’s fault is it? Should the client have done more research into architectural engineering? Anyway, this issue is bigger than arguing about who to blame and is more about questioning the ethos of the sport as a whole.
The sad part was the Ex sounding more like she was sad about her physique getting ruined over the health ramifications. This guy is the devil, but its crazy to me how many people were willing to make a deal with the devil at the top levels of this "sport".
this the best fitness awareness video i have seen , im only halfway through it, sounds like someone is getting away with murder , this should be a warning to all you people who want to do steroids and weight cutting agents this shelby character should be investigated
Man I've watched Bostin since he was younger years and years ago. He's always brought shit up and nobody listens. He mentioned people died, nobody listened. lol crazy
Really appreciate these type of vids! Also really appreciate anything you do leo! Keep it up!!!
Also completely disgusting facts. Awareness is everything
Leo as always doing gods work, easily hitting 100k subs in next month or two.
This is so informative. Well done for bringing this to everyone’s attention
Why don’t these coaches get charged with something
🤣 no one is forcing these people to follow the coaches protocols. There’s no legal culpability
Patti Hanson who passed out twice, was/is coached by Shelby by the way.
She said, "Clen is an asthma medication." Yes, it is. FOR HORSES!
Interesting and valuable discussion.
No one wants death or health issues in bodybuilding but the folks here are all ignoring the most important aspect. PERSONAL ACCOUNTABILITY. Whacky protocols aside, if anyone just listens and follows someone who says don’t drink ANY water for 24-48 hours is too dumb to be competing in bodybuilding.
People can be influenced especially when they’re driving for a goal but it’s not hidden knowledge that MOST women (and frankly men) in bodybuilding are insecure and have mental health issues. Those are the same folks who shouldn’t be taking ANY bodybuilding drugs and are not mentally good candidates to deal with the challenges of contest prep.
Bodybuilding attracts a fringe non conformist type women (more so than men) who is seeking a sense of belonging and value. Those are mentally the type of women who will push the limit to feel valued even when they know better or their body tells them otherwise.
Bodybuilding is RISKY. The risks aren’t hidden. It’s an extreme competition/lifestyle. It’s YOUR responsibility for what YOU choose to put in your body.
I asked you what accountability lies on the ifbb and judges?
Did adding back women's body building help did it do what they wanted it to should there be a serious discussion beyond trainers and athletes into the actual outline of the competition?
@@seanlavin2281 I agree. But no accountability lies on the judges unless you’re talking about the success of women’s bodybuilding and it’s marketability (or lack thereof). I like women’s bodybuilding and I admire the unique looks of muscle on a woman. But it’s not supposed to be turning them into men. It should be judged on the total package (face, hair, suit, posing, confidence etc) not just physique development.
The judging just need to have a standard that doesn’t reward insane condition/dryness if it’s at the expense of health/beauty
New subscriber from MPMD✊🏼
They should keep a medical staffer on hand at all these shows with iv fluids handy for this very reason. Might save someone’s life
I appreciate the fact that Leo is trying to remain impartial so we Can get an unbiased look at the issues
While I do sympathize with so many of the people that participated in this video and commented, I am just here to say that this was not my experience of being coached by Shelby Starnes at all. It was positive all the way and I never felt I was in any danger at all at any time. He answered questions thoroughly and was so prompt with his feedback. He was kind and supportive and coaches others who are “natural” too and choose to be. We all have choices and responsibility for our own care.
Hello guys, thanks for this podcast, Alena was from my country, informations what we got are horrible, she used to take diuretics whole final week in her prep....
she has two little kids...
Tragic just tragic
Pretty shocking and valuable information.
Thank you leo for making this happen.
I hope this video get the amount of audience it deserves
Calling out these reckless "coaches" with blood on their hands is something, that I`m fully on board with, but could somebody explain to me, how one can be on good terms with Chad Nicholls, whilst rightfully denouncing Shelby Starnes? In regards to their body counts these two barely differ from one another, so why are there multiple videos on this channel, that depict Chad and Leo having a lighthearted conversation?
man this one was really hard to watch... this coach NEEDS to be stopped.. When they were talking about the people dying in their hotel rooms, alone, while on prep.. sounds AWFUL
This Grim Reaper has to be STOPPED!!! Seriously, if he did that to someone close to me I will END him!!!
Holy smokes Leo's on fire