@@BruceDragon-sf1tr Honda have been using wet belt in industrial (fixed rpm) engines for almost 30 years. It's probably why they thought it would work in automotive?
GM’s 1.2 liter 3 cylinder engine has a wet timing belt; disintegration in oil clog oil p/u starving oil, belt breaks impacting valves. Special tools for cam phasers and placement make this a pricey maintenance & won’t achieve service intervals. Ford already proved this is a bad idea in eco boost engines; making Trax & Envista throw away vehicles.
I, not mechanically trained, have long held the opinion that timing gears, weight and noise aside, would logically be the most durable and reliable setup.
@@stevemisfit1 yes and Honda requires the valve clearance checked every 6k miles. Personally I don't think of a 2001 as old, especially when can be compared to a engine from 1965. I know 01 is over 20years old but hard to think of it as old, just like 90s cars are now classics.
Hello, I own a 1967 chevy van I got over 300k miles out of that 250 straight 6 . BECAUSE IT HAD A TIMMING GEAR. The auto makers went to timing chains, then timing belt to practice their predatory engineering in oder to keep the motoring public in economic slavery. I know these old vehicles and work on them modifying the body parts with stainless steel. A bad repudiated metal with auto makers. Can you buy a new stainless steel vehicle no matter how much you want to spend? Why don,t auto body shop personal aquire skill sets to weld stainless steel to regular steel using a 319L electrode and tri mix shielding gas? They are in my opinion in some kind of TRUMP CULT.
Belt fails before the engine because the engine lasts over 300,000 miles. The chain lasts the life of the engine but also needs to be changed at 180,000 miles? So, 3 belt changes, and it outlasts the chain. The belt is also quieter and cheaper. Also, having things inspected while having a belt replaced is a good idea. The water pump gets replaced, usually with the belt. Engine casting is less expensive since the belt is outside of the block and head. Round seals are less likely to leak than a timing cover gasket and are much easier to replace. The belt should be DRY, because a WET BELT is subject to acidic oil after it has been diluted with fuel and oxidized. The WET BELT can disintegrate and clog the oil pump pickup, losing oil pressure and killing the engine.
From timing gear, timing chain to timing belt. All I hear is that the downgrade of quality of car parts is because costs reduction. Timing belt is the owner nightmare. Timing chain is better but timing gear is great.
@@Tapped-o9k because you have to change it at 100.000 km. A timing chain, if you change the oil at maximum 10.000 km, can last up to 500.000 km without issues. And the timing gear is the strongest.
You should change timing belts 50.000 or less miles , especially if you are in a dirt dusty landscape, timing gears, I have nerve change them, and timing chains I ,have never changed, so it’s all up to how you change your oil , 3 ,000 miles or less, and that will save the chain and gears ⚙️, last longer, belts are and expensive easier to change, thanks BigAl California.
I would prefer belt. They are lighter, cheaper, never stretch and therefore never lose timing, and if you have no oil leaks and change belt in time - it won't cause any problem. Worn chain or tensioner require expensive repair. Especially modern one row chains are a crap.
Not mentioned - gear driven timing via conical gears and a shaft. Known since beginning of 20th century and used especially in aircraft engines. Also - in diesel engines of V-2 family, all Russian tanks starting from T-34 and until now.
@@lordberlynever heard that before. I work on diesel's every day and that's not something we do. They last the life of the engine every single time without ever being touched
Direct mesh timing gears are the most durable, but not practical in most modern, high efficiency dual cam engines. However, some creative engineering in the early 20th Century employed geared shafts to operate dual overhead cams. Yes, they did. Chains are usually equally durable, but in OHC engines the plastic guides often fail early from heat stress and wear. Avoid a wet belt engine, no matter who made it. I prefer the dry timing belt. Modern construction is as reliable as tires. They are relatively inexpensive and accessible without compromising oil containment, and if replaced timely with tensioner and idler will rarely fail. Only use an OEM kit.
I have a VW Fox 2019 with 39k km. Should I verify the timing belt in the next service due to time even if I'm not experiencing any problems with the vehicle?
I would change it whenever it’s due for service you don’t want the belt to snap because it gets to old or worn down though if you really need to you can run it until the belt starts to make a noise then you really need to replace it
You should DEFINITELY check an external belt from time to time. That's why we have TIME and KM/Miles service. Belts can and will wear differently, so in areas with plenty of contaminants or any unusual things happening can lower the life expectancy.
Nice catch, on the "align honing" problem with gear drives, but IH used gear drives, in their gas engines for years, with no wear issues. Not exactly a fair comparison, since they're commercial powerplants, built to take tremendous abuse, but I think any thermal issues would still show up. Ford 300's are also extremely tough. The real issue was noise - it's very, VERY slight, but people hear a noise they aren't used to and they freak out. Buick had to discontinue it's amazing 2-speed torque converter, because owners got nervous about the slight whining noise.
My quattroportte has triple rollers from the crankshaft to the idler and double rollers to each head. And definitely stronger than silent chain or belts.
KNOWLEDGEABLE,The Engineering Post Very helpful information tutorial video 👍 From Nick Ayivor from London England UK 🇬🇧 ⏰️ 16:11 Good Afternoon. 🌧 🌦 🌂and more ⛈️ ☔️ 🌩
Vertical shaft, with bevel gears at each end, is a good solution. Oldham couplings can be included if required as can a 'hunting tooth' to even out any wear if required.
Gears are best but have weight and are expensive to manufacture, belts are light, quiet and reliable if changed when required, chains can be good and get high miles without maintenance if they are designed well with quality products in the first place so the average buyer has two choices belts or chains and to know where you are look at the history of the particular engine and make a choice on that and never, never buy a car with a wet belt. Just my 2 cents after 40 years as a mechanic.
I have a mint '98 Ranger... 4cyl., 2.5L, SOHC cam... The OEM Ford timing belt recently died 140,000+ miles... Belt popped, no engine destruction, what more can you ask for...
It s about quality after all. Take for example Bmw. In the 90s, their chains were indestructible. When they started using bycycle chains for timing in the 00s, you absolutely had to change it before 200k km
Timing chains make engines disposable, nissan from qr and up engines become useless after timing chain guides problems because of the cost of engine removal and timing chain replacement. The ford OHC cost 4x than the pushrod chain to replace. There are no benefits to timing chains, now engines don't have woodruff or key on the crankshaft to pulley either. You can thank the Germans for timing chain problems. Then you also have chain problema on all CVT, not a good thing at all.
I'm very familiar with the V-4 Honda motorcycle's and hate them with a passion. I don't care how good they became in later years, the early ones were complete shite with numerous problems. Even the gear drive VF750 wore out cam gear 'cartridge' really fast (never mind the bikes where Honda 'forgot' to harden the cams) I started at a Honda dealer workshop in late 1970's, moved to a Suzuki dealers 1980 and worked on V-4 Honda's at least once a week for several years. Moved to America 1999 and still worked on junk V-4 Honda's (mainly V45 Magna) Seems I always get the worst designed motorcycle engines at dealers (doubt anyone else understands them?) Kawasaki used silent chain so lightweight it was completely worn out in less than 20,000 miles (600cc and 750cc) and if not changed would break before 30,000miles. Honda wt belt in industrial engines isn't rubber, the one I looked at was bright blue 'plastic' of some kind. Solenoid valve operation requires a high amperage for high rpm applications. I know there have been developments in the last 20 years (you used to be able to go directly to development website, around 2005~6) Apart from that, this was a very good engine primer for camshaft drive types
Timing chain's primary role is to Synchronize and power all spinning correlated parts. Timing belt's primary role is to be changed within a certain time period.
3 дні тому
Gears, then chain, and then belt. Look at racing. Use mostly gears for timing.
Chain is better than belt, but gear to gear is best. I have even been considering swapping my chain setup for a gear to gear setup. They do sell kits for my 5.7 hemi.
The engine in my 05 Civic has a belt. I don't know when it was changed last, so I got a timing belt and water pump kit along with some other gaskets and seals. I'm not a fan of timing belts. I've changed a few but this is the first one I've personally owned. I will never buy another vehicle with a timing belt. Or any modern vehicle for that matter
Some chains have change intervals. When a chaon is on an ohv motor it usualy isnt an issue. But as they get longer it becomes an issue for example a two or four over head cam v6 or v8
Why do chains use hydraulic tensioners? Sounds like a really bad idea. Why not a spring? Even when they are working correctly, the tensioner is not working during startup.
Aside from in a vast amount of cars. Seriously they are just about as common as chains. Also chains have service intervals too, they suffer from stretch and often the guides can fail. They also increase shear in oil degrading engine oil quicker. Belts are easier and cheaper to replace than chains and if your wanting to keep the vehicle after it has reached 120k miles you are just aswell off with a belt as a chain.
Timing belt is not more reliable than the chain and cars today still use timing chains and today's timing chain will outlast a belt 50x over as long as you change the oil the biggest advantage for belts they are more lightweight
I wonder how many people would rather pay upfront the "extra cost" these car manufacturers claim they have when they use a timing belt that needs replacement at 100k vs a timing chain that will never need replacement? I just spend $2500 on my 2017 Acura RDX changing the belt. Had it been a chain that never needed replacement, but the initial cost buying the car been $2500 more, I would have paid increased price at purchase, knowing the engine was solid for the life of the car.
So they went from chains to belts. Then back to chains. That tells me that they know belts are garbage. Wet belts are a stupid idea. Never buy an engine with a wet belt!!!
The best engine in my opinion is the OHV engines. They are very simple and last a long time with proper oil changes. Plus you don’t really have a timing belt to worry about. Plus OHV engine are non interference so if the small chain dose break your valves won’t be damaged.
ita not a timing chain,timing belt or timing gear...Its called a cam chain,cam belt or cam gear.A chain,belt or gear can not time anything.The crank and the cams have marks ..these are timing marks...and this should be in time.
every wet belt fails immaturely, costs you thousands' of dollars to rebuild. AVIOD WET BELT at any cost. (HONDA 1.0t, PSG 1.2t, FORD 1.0t etc.)
Not every belt fails prematurely but your warning is otherwise valid......
Does Ford and Honda engine have a similar set up?
@@BruceDragon-sf1tr Honda have been using wet belt in industrial (fixed rpm) engines for almost 30 years.
It's probably why they thought it would work in automotive?
Wet belt is stupid idea. Belt and oil don't like each other.
GM’s 1.2 liter 3 cylinder engine has a wet timing belt; disintegration in oil clog oil p/u starving oil, belt breaks impacting valves. Special tools for cam phasers and placement make this a pricey maintenance & won’t achieve service intervals. Ford already proved this is a bad idea in eco boost engines; making Trax & Envista throw away vehicles.
I, not mechanically trained, have long held the opinion that timing gears, weight and noise aside, would logically be the most durable and reliable setup.
Timing gears > all others!
Timing belt = 💩
Timing chain = 🫳
Timing gear = 👍
¿what about push rods?
Yes timing gears are so bad that the Ford 300 can run 1 million miles without issue. Mine is at 600k miles.
No chain or belt will do that.
There are old Hondas out there with 500k easy on a timing chain lol but i get it
@@stevemisfit1 yes and Honda requires the valve clearance checked every 6k miles.
Personally I don't think of a 2001 as old, especially when can be compared to a engine from 1965. I know 01 is over 20years old but hard to think of it as old, just like 90s cars are now classics.
Gear driven are the best !
Hello,
I own a 1967 chevy van I got over 300k miles out of that 250 straight 6 . BECAUSE IT HAD A TIMMING GEAR. The auto makers went to timing chains, then timing belt to practice their predatory engineering in oder to keep the motoring public in economic slavery. I know these old vehicles and work on them modifying the body parts with stainless steel. A bad repudiated metal with auto makers. Can you buy a new stainless steel vehicle no matter how much you want to spend? Why don,t auto body shop personal aquire skill sets to weld stainless steel to regular steel using a 319L electrode and tri mix shielding gas? They are in my opinion in some kind of TRUMP CULT.
Belt fails before the engine because the engine lasts over 300,000 miles. The chain lasts the life of the engine but also needs to be changed at 180,000 miles? So, 3 belt changes, and it outlasts the chain. The belt is also quieter and cheaper. Also, having things inspected while having a belt replaced is a good idea. The water pump gets replaced, usually with the belt. Engine casting is less expensive since the belt is outside of the block and head. Round seals are less likely to leak than a timing cover gasket and are much easier to replace. The belt should be DRY, because a WET BELT is subject to acidic oil after it has been diluted with fuel and oxidized. The WET BELT can disintegrate and clog the oil pump pickup, losing oil pressure and killing the engine.
Timing Belt : Quiet and Light
Timing Chain : Durability
...
Timing Gear :
INDESTRUCTIBLE! MASTER OF WAR!
Hell yeaah DISTURBED 🤘🏼
From timing gear, timing chain to timing belt. All I hear is that the downgrade of quality of car parts is because costs reduction. Timing belt is the owner nightmare. Timing chain is better but timing gear is great.
Why is the belt bad?
Ive had both and I prefer a belt. Chain is expensive to fix if something goes wrong.
@@Tapped-o9kBelt breaks easier, needs replacing and has no advantages other then cost of manufacturing.
@@Tapped-o9k because you have to change it at 100.000 km. A timing chain, if you change the oil at maximum 10.000 km, can last up to 500.000 km without issues. And the timing gear is the strongest.
@@Tapped-o9k the belts break after only 80k and destroy the engine beyond any hope of repair
You should change timing belts 50.000 or less miles , especially if you are in a dirt dusty landscape, timing gears, I have nerve change them, and timing chains I ,have never changed, so it’s all up to how you change your oil , 3 ,000 miles or less, and that will save the chain and gears ⚙️, last longer, belts are and expensive easier to change, thanks BigAl California.
I would prefer belt. They are lighter, cheaper, never stretch and therefore never lose timing, and if you have no oil leaks and change belt in time - it won't cause any problem. Worn chain or tensioner require expensive repair. Especially modern one row chains are a crap.
Camless Engines .. I'm waiting for this episode ❤
Rotary valves!😉
@@luciansiclovan7123
Or electro pneumatic valves
You just want to see if he can pronounce Koenigsegg
@@luciansiclovan7123or slide valves.
My Dodge uses gears, my Fords use multiple chains. Chains can stretch, gears don't.
Timing belts suck.
Not mentioned - gear driven timing via conical gears and a shaft. Known since beginning of 20th century and used especially in aircraft engines. Also - in diesel engines of V-2 family, all Russian tanks starting from T-34 and until now.
He showed one in a motorcycle engine I believe. Although he didn't speak about it that I heard
@@The_R-n-I_Guy Yep, Ducati bevel gear OHC
This was a very informative video!
Helical gears offer a reduced noise level compared to spur gears, trading off a small amount of efficiency.
Electric valves oh, what could go wrong there?😂
First thing I said to.
A failed ground strap is enough to grenade your entire engine.
What timing mechanism is in a 92-97 Ford Crown Victoria?
Timing chain
Timing gear not have maintenance
wrong, it still needs to be checked from time to time but not as often as timing belt
@@lordberlynever heard that before. I work on diesel's every day and that's not something we do. They last the life of the engine every single time without ever being touched
I’ll keep my old truck with its slow over square low compression gear drive timing and simple magneto
Direct mesh timing gears are the most durable, but not practical in most modern, high efficiency dual cam engines. However, some creative engineering in the early 20th Century employed geared shafts to operate dual overhead cams. Yes, they did.
Chains are usually equally durable, but in OHC engines the plastic guides often fail early from heat stress and wear. Avoid a wet belt engine, no matter who made it.
I prefer the dry timing belt. Modern construction is as reliable as tires. They are relatively inexpensive and accessible without compromising oil containment, and if replaced timely with tensioner and idler will rarely fail. Only use an OEM kit.
I have a VW Fox 2019 with 39k km. Should I verify the timing belt in the next service due to time even if I'm not experiencing any problems with the vehicle?
I would change it whenever it’s due for service you don’t want the belt to snap because it gets to old or worn down though if you really need to you can run it until the belt starts to make a noise then you really need to replace it
I wouldnt worry about it until you're close to 160k km. Thats about their life expectancy. I am in the US and most belts average around 10 - 30 usd
You should DEFINITELY check an external belt from time to time. That's why we have TIME and KM/Miles service.
Belts can and will wear differently, so in areas with plenty of contaminants or any unusual things happening can lower the life expectancy.
Every 50.000 km or 5 years is the best interval to change a timing belt. If you have 5 years and 40k km, you have to change it.
I'll stick with a double roller chain. Unless I'm racing and I'll stick with gears then.
Nice catch, on the "align honing" problem with gear drives, but IH used gear drives, in their gas engines for years, with no wear issues. Not exactly a fair comparison, since they're commercial powerplants, built to take tremendous abuse, but I think any thermal issues would still show up. Ford 300's are also extremely tough. The real issue was noise - it's very, VERY slight, but people hear a noise they aren't used to and they freak out. Buick had to discontinue it's amazing 2-speed torque converter, because owners got nervous about the slight whining noise.
хороший канал !. удачи. 👋👋👋👋👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍💨💨💨💨💨
벨트랑 체인은 많이 봤는데 기어는 직접 본 적이 없네요
My quattroportte has triple rollers from the crankshaft to the idler and double rollers to each head. And definitely stronger than silent chain or belts.
KNOWLEDGEABLE,The Engineering Post
Very helpful information tutorial video
👍
From Nick Ayivor from London England UK 🇬🇧 ⏰️ 16:11 Good Afternoon. 🌧 🌦 🌂and more ⛈️ ☔️ 🌩
Vertical shaft, with bevel gears at each end, is a good solution. Oldham couplings can be included if required as can a 'hunting tooth' to even out any wear if required.
Gears are best but have weight and are expensive to manufacture, belts are light, quiet and reliable if changed when required, chains can be good and get high miles without maintenance if they are designed well with quality products in the first place so the average buyer has two choices belts or chains and to know where you are look at the history of the particular engine and make a choice on that and never, never buy a car with a wet belt. Just my 2 cents after 40 years as a mechanic.
If the manufacturer put a belt on it, they WANT your engine to fail so you have to pay out the rear end to fix up the front end.
I have a mint '98 Ranger... 4cyl., 2.5L, SOHC cam... The OEM Ford timing belt recently died 140,000+ miles... Belt popped, no engine destruction, what more can you ask for...
My Subaru has a chain. Still okay since 2006 (new from factory). My 1940 Opel has gears. Also still good and still original.
It s about quality after all. Take for example Bmw. In the 90s, their chains were indestructible. When they started using bycycle chains for timing in the 00s, you absolutely had to change it before 200k km
Timing chains make engines disposable, nissan from qr and up engines become useless after timing chain guides problems because of the cost of engine removal and timing chain replacement. The ford OHC cost 4x than the pushrod chain to replace. There are no benefits to timing chains, now engines don't have woodruff or key on the crankshaft to pulley either. You can thank the Germans for timing chain problems. Then you also have chain problema on all CVT, not a good thing at all.
I'm very familiar with the V-4 Honda motorcycle's and hate them with a passion.
I don't care how good they became in later years, the early ones were complete shite with numerous problems.
Even the gear drive VF750 wore out cam gear 'cartridge' really fast (never mind the bikes where Honda 'forgot' to harden the cams)
I started at a Honda dealer workshop in late 1970's, moved to a Suzuki dealers 1980 and worked on V-4 Honda's at least once a week for several years.
Moved to America 1999 and still worked on junk V-4 Honda's (mainly V45 Magna)
Seems I always get the worst designed motorcycle engines at dealers (doubt anyone else understands them?)
Kawasaki used silent chain so lightweight it was completely worn out in less than 20,000 miles (600cc and 750cc) and if not changed would break before 30,000miles.
Honda wt belt in industrial engines isn't rubber, the one I looked at was bright blue 'plastic' of some kind.
Solenoid valve operation requires a high amperage for high rpm applications.
I know there have been developments in the last 20 years (you used to be able to go directly to development website, around 2005~6)
Apart from that, this was a very good engine primer for camshaft drive types
Timing chain's primary role is to Synchronize and power all spinning correlated parts.
Timing belt's primary role is to be changed within a certain time period.
Gears, then chain, and then belt. Look at racing. Use mostly gears for timing.
Chains all day baby!
Every toyota is non interference? That's just straight up wrong
Also belts are way easier for maintenance because it's way easier to change
Dry belt ok easy to change wet belt not to good expensive to change oil life critical. Chain better yet gear the best.
Chain is better than belt, but gear to gear is best. I have even been considering swapping my chain setup for a gear to gear setup. They do sell kits for my 5.7 hemi.
I don't know much about wet belts, but if I owned a vehicle with one I'd add a bypass oil filter.
Just simply avoid having a car with a wet belt driven engine.
The engine in my 05 Civic has a belt. I don't know when it was changed last, so I got a timing belt and water pump kit along with some other gaskets and seals.
I'm not a fan of timing belts. I've changed a few but this is the first one I've personally owned. I will never buy another vehicle with a timing belt. Or any modern vehicle for that matter
Timing chains were great until they made them flimsier than the chain on my push-bike.
Ford 300 inline 6 cylinder, mine is 44 years old, no complaints.
Toyota does/did make interference engines, that have cost may a owner a cylinder head and pistons.
Timing gear ⚙️ best semi truck go about 3 million miles with good mataince in them Detroit diesel 14 liter inline 6 series 60
Some chains have change intervals. When a chaon is on an ohv motor it usualy isnt an issue. But as they get longer it becomes an issue for example a two or four over head cam v6 or v8
Amazing video 📷
Timing gears can never do you wrong, noise concerns be damned!
FYI some engines have both a belt and chain.
Türkçe altyazı desteği lütfen! Saygılar, başarılar…
old wit no belt in oil of no belt
Ford says "hold my beer" while they run the oil pump off a rubber belt all bathed in oil
Why do chains use hydraulic tensioners? Sounds like a really bad idea. Why not a spring? Even when they are working correctly, the tensioner is not working during startup.
❤
True reliable engines use GEARS.
I like timing belts for gas cars.
What up with the robot voice
Timing chains durability,depends on timing guide’s durability..
Belts are quieter.
Belt system far better
No, never!
Chain is good
Lightweight balanced timing gears for the win
Timing Chain wins
Depends on who's designed/made it.
Vertical shaft and bevel gears does not stretch with wear.
This Ai voice tho 😂
Can you use timing gears with a dual overhead cam engine?
I'm sure it could be done. Look at the Deltec. It had three crank shafts geared together.
Chains are the way to go. That’s why belts are almost extinct
Aside from in a vast amount of cars. Seriously they are just about as common as chains.
Also chains have service intervals too, they suffer from stretch and often the guides can fail. They also increase shear in oil degrading engine oil quicker.
Belts are easier and cheaper to replace than chains and if your wanting to keep the vehicle after it has reached 120k miles you are just aswell off with a belt as a chain.
Timing belt is not more reliable than the chain and cars today still use timing chains and today's timing chain will outlast a belt 50x over as long as you change the oil the biggest advantage for belts they are more lightweight
Please dub hindi language 😢
bachuud!
why
next do ancient hieroglyphics
I wonder how many people would rather pay upfront the "extra cost" these car manufacturers claim they have when they use a timing belt that needs replacement at 100k vs a timing chain that will never need replacement?
I just spend $2500 on my 2017 Acura RDX changing the belt. Had it been a chain that never needed replacement, but the initial cost buying the car been $2500 more, I would have paid increased price at purchase, knowing the engine was solid for the life of the car.
Would not have been $2500, more like $200. Most of the $2500 is labor, plus the water pump.
Timeming gears on indian cars they r noisy but timming chain should be changed by one lack k/m
So they went from chains to belts. Then back to chains. That tells me that they know belts are garbage.
Wet belts are a stupid idea. Never buy an engine with a wet belt!!!
The best engine in my opinion is the OHV engines. They are very simple and last a long time with proper oil changes. Plus you don’t really have a timing belt to worry about. Plus OHV engine are non interference so if the small chain dose break your valves won’t be damaged.
Changed the chain in my jeep 4.0l because I had the cam out. New chain was about the same as the one I took out that had over 200k miles on it.
A WORTLESS VIDEO. YOU SPENT 30? SECONDS TALKING ABOUT ELECTRONIC VALVE CONTROL - OH WELL
ita not a timing chain,timing belt or timing gear...Its called a cam chain,cam belt or cam gear.A chain,belt or gear can not time anything.The crank and the cams have marks ..these are timing marks...and this should be in time.