Recording Drum Room Mics: Mid/Side Configuration
Вставка
- Опубліковано 1 жов 2024
- www.youtube.com...
_
If you're looking for a way to get a room sound no matter what size room you are in then mid/side is the way to go! Charlie will demonstrate this versatile configuration in this video.
Check out part 1 here: • Stereo Drum Room Mic T...
Kit: Gretsch Renown
Cymbals: Paiste
Microphones:
Kick In: Audio-Technica ATM250
Kick Out: Audio-Technica AT4047
Snare Top: Audio-Technica Pro63
Snare Bottom: Audio-Technica AE3000
Hats: Audio-Technica AE3000
Toms: Heil Sound PR30
Overheads: Audio-Technia AT4047
Rooms: Studio Projects CS5
Compressor: Overstayer VCA
All mics are recorded through the Trident 88 console straight to Logic Pro X.
www.UltimateStu...
www.RecordingNi...
Good stuff :o)
Props to the drummer for being very consistent !
Thanks Marius! I'll pass that on to Hao!
Been playing around with mid side drum rooms. It's pretty dope.
Mid/Side is great! What mics are you using?
@@Ultimatestudiosinc mid mic using a akg c214 or the lewitt 440. Side I've been using a hugely underrated mic from Sterling which is their active ribbon. ST170 I believe. I was going for a different sound in my mediocre room for drums but it can be really useful as to add or subtract the levels and blend. Your explanation was spot on. If you check out my channel/ solo project the song "The Dreamer" was a mid side set up akg and Sterling. Sounds good for a bedroom and someone who plays every instrument just good enough. Lol. Thanks for sharing all your info dude. You rock!
This is an awesome. I wish this stuff existed back when I was making recordings in my basement in high school.
Well I'm two years late to your table but...
That was an absolutely Marvelous demonstration of MS stereo microphone technique. My favorite stereo microphone technique. One that I've been using since the early 1980s. Yeah I'm that old.
Now if you want a real thrill? You replace those condenser microphones with a Beyer, M-160, hyper cardioid ribbon microphone. And the sister M-130, bidirectional ribbon microphone. Talk about crazy smooth stereo. That's the ultimate. And sounds even more reel than, condenser microphones. It's bad ass.
Nicer still when you use, Neve or API. Which, is all I use.
But finally! Someone has finally done a good demonstration of MS technique. You're a marvelous engineer. You have the Remy David seal of approval. And I don't hand that out often.
awesome video. very useful to learn this stuff. thanks so much.
Glad it was helpful! Thank you for watching!
Wondering if the flipped phase thing will make it disappear in mono.
it will, but ideally you shouldn't miss it since you'll have the mid room mic
The difficulty I've had is blending the room mics with individual mics (e.g. kick, snare, toms, sometimes hihat mics). If I leave too much of the "mid" mic of the OH, I've found that it's hard to mix my kick and snare and have them sound in phase with everything. So I've started doing this thing where I mix to the point where my room mic "bus" (I send the mid and side tracks to a single bus) sounds great, and then what I've been doing is taking out some of the mid part of it, as I blend the kick, snare, toms in. How would *you* go about mixing drums this way? Or would you just choose to use the room mic only?
Thanks for this great and well explained video!
Just one question because I'm very new to mixing and recording: How did you "mult" your channel 16 to channel 17 on the console to get two channels with the same signal?
Thanks a lot!
this drum and room sound awesome
Thank you for explaining this. I'm way late on fully understanding this technique. Grateful.
Hey George! It's never too late!
Enjoy and experiment!
This makes matched pair microphones redundant!
Loving the vibe on your channel! :)
Thank you!!
For sure!
I've used Mid/Side for acoustic guitar, but was looking for an example of it being used for drum room mics. I don't get to track drums very often, so I don't get to experiment much - this was a perfect example. Thanks!
Mid/Side is such a cool technique. Next time you're tracking drums I highly recommend trying it out.
Waymire is my favorite person on UA-cam.
Thank you!
Hey, thanks for this video. I've used Rode NT2A as side and Superlux ECM999 as mid, turned out great! Thanks again!
Nice Tomasz!
I’m recording a 4-person rockabilly group, and an idea was that I use two figure 8’s and a room mic:
the L/R, front/back, and room mic are in the center of the room with all four members equidistant from the center of mics. The idea was to essentially double the “mid” aspect and have the room center everything and fill out the cracks.
Has anyone tried this out or is this one of those ideas that’s better done outside of studio time?
I have done something similar with just a stereo ribbon mic. Adding the center mic could be very useful. The only thing I would suggest is once you have the musicians placed in the room do a test run to make sure the balance between the instruments is the way you want it. Don't be afraid to move players closer or further away from the mics to get the balance right. Happy recording!
Interesting , but for the hassle of set up, I can’t see me trying this. Who knows maybe some day.
Hey Brian! Yeah it's definitely a little more work setting us this configuration but if you every have a night and feel like experimenting you never know....you might dig it! Thanks for watching!
When did David Blane become an audio engineer?
Can someone clarify. He’s using a mono mic for the figure 8, how is he achieve that stereo sound? Just duplicating the signal and panning it to the opposite side?
Yes, but when you duplicate and pan the track you must also flip the phase on this track. This is very important.
Amazing video!
Thank you!
Are you the same fella from the Audio Technica Videos??? :)
Yes I am!
Great Video! BTW, nice Madarin dude!
And counting in Mandarin no less! :Þ
When using the mid/side configuration, do the mics need to be a stereo pair or the different polar patterns make them an unmatched pair by default?
Love the videos!
Hey Jonathan! No the mics don't need to be the same. I often use a ribbon and condenser together. It's a really cool combo. The key is to try and get the gain on both mics to match while you're recording.
Having the same type of microphone but with two different patterns will definitely change how they react. That's just the nature of the different patterns.
Gonna try this... Thanks!
Excellent video!
I'm looking for a MXL r144... So I will put it together wit my AT 2020. The AT will work as the 'front to the kit' mic, while the MXL is going to do the 'mid-side room'.
In another tutorial, you said ribbon mics are good for room when recording rock songs.
What kind of mics would you recommend to go for the room when recording trash and hardcore?
Greetings from Brazil!
If one didn't have a figure 8 mic (and exactly zero budget to get one..), but did have a few other condencers, would using a matched pair of cardioids work instead for the side to side mic?
Wow, sounds great! Very useful and amazing, btw what cymbals are you using? They sound great! Thank you for the videos and greetings from México!
Hey man! Do you think it is possible to use 2 small condenser mics instead of 1 figure 8 mic for the side, so I use 3 mics for this configuration! Love your channel - keep it up!! Cheerz
Great explanatory video. Well done! How do you like the trident?
Extremely helpful, thank you so much for the great videos! The video about the blumlein technique is great as well, now I am able to try both techniques and compare them. Cheers :)
Let's say I did a similar set up, and had two really good preamps and a bunch of decent ones. Would it be better to dedicate the good pres for room or OH?
Great video ✌🤘🥁
now that is so cool!
Nice! Do you time-align them to the rest of the close miked tracks in the DAW?
Hey Estudio Mantra! Thanks for watching. I know some engineers do but I do not. I like the depth (not just the space) that room mics create and that gets lost when everything is time aligned. Of course you have to take care to get everything in phase when recording but as long as that is done the depth from room mics is really cool in my opinion.
I do the opposite with room mics sometimes, I delay the room mics by 10-20 ms this creates the illusion of a bigger room. Also, I advise against aligning because there is no way all mics are going to be exactly in-phase and the phase of the mics is going to shift from using EQ anyway. Just check the polarity is all I do with the close mics.
I use this all the time! Great vid charlie!
Thanks Josh!
Damn, that was one of the best Room-Mic Tips i've seen in a while, thanks [^_^]
I’m gonna try something a little easier like building a nuclear submarine in my back yard.
Very helpful. Thx.
That's awesome! Does the Top mic have to be in Fig.8 or does Omni work as well? I do have an older Behringer Pro2 which only comes with the addition of Omni.
For the "mid-side" technique to work one of the mics has to be cardioid and one has to be figure 8. The figure 8 mic is how you dial in the "stereo" (or illusion of) image. Omni would produce that type of effect.
Having said that. If you forget about doing a "mid-side" thing and run a mono room in cardioid and a mono room in omni you can get some cool sounds. Or at least a different picture of the kit in the room.
Good try.
I love this, trying tonight
I've seen Adam Nolly Getgood use two large diaphram condensor mics low to the ground, either side of the kit that seem to be pointing at the floor, does this have a specific name? if so, could you make a video on It please!
I've done variations of that before. Not sure if there is an actual name for it but it would make for a good broadcast. I'll add it to the list.
Thanks for a very helpful video!!
The sound you get live is an idea it is necessary to correct timing on room mics and avoid possible phase issues
How did you mult the figure 8 mic on the Trident?
Mind blowing!
Great video, greetz from Düsseldorf
Thank you soo much, this technique really just supercharged my drum sound. Your channel is a life saver.
Hey Daniel!
You're most welcome! Glad I could help.
Happy recording,
Charlie
very informative, clear and convincing.
Dude, you are a ninja, great tips!
Thanks Wesley!!
Nice, as always. Thanks, Charlie!
is it important if the mid and the figure 8 are a matched pair, or can you mismatch mics?
You can mix and match all you want! One combo I really like is using a condenser for the Mid and a ribbon for the Side.
I love mid/side. It's so useful and sounds so great. I love doing it as well on overheads.
It'sIt's really cool on overheads. I used it on a guitar amp once too...really neat effect.
I've been using this on guitar a lot recently. I'll split the guitar out to two signal chains, amp them both, mic both amps, and use M/S to create a stereo guitar track. On one song, the guitarist used a fuzz in the middle, clean with reverb on the side. Helped keep the clarity, add space, and ensure mono compatibility.
Badass as always！！！
Thank you!
Charlie
邱宇龙 bh
Lovely video..
Fantastic vd!!+👍
Thanks! Happy recording!
Here's a very important tip:
Charlie says he "mults" the figure of eight mic on his console. Perhaps there's something on his console that allows him to do that, but I'm not sure what that is. If you have a patch bay with a "parallel" section then you can use that to create copies.
However, I suspect most people watching this video won't have these options. Charlie offers a solution. He says if you are working in your DAW then you can record your cardioid mic and your fig 8 mic and then AFTER you are done recording you can copy the fig 8 to another track and do the whole process. There's a better way which allows you to hear the full effect DURING sound checking and recording. Simply create 3 tracks as you would expect. 1 track for the mid (cardioid mic) and 2 for the sides (fig 8 mic). The key is to make sure your input on both the side tracks are the same so they are both receiving the same signal from figure of eight mic at the same time. You then follow the technique as Charlie instructed: Pan one side left and the other right and flip the phase of one of them. Charlie flipped the phase on his console. For folks who have to duplicate the track in their DAWs you will have to flip the phase there. In pro tools you have to use an insert like a stock protools EQ which has a phase flip button. I'm sure other DAWs will have more sensible ways to do it.
Hope this helps
Lovely warm room mic sound on that mono mic before you even go stereo with the side channels. Great video, thanks.
Hey J Sav! Thanks for the comment!
Yes I am multing in the patchbay and not ITB. Thanks for taking the time to give a great ITB solution. This solution works perfect for PT but Logic doesn't allow multiple channels with the same input. In Logic the side mics would be processed by the "Direction Mixer" plugin to achieve the correct effect. I'm not sure about other DAWs (I'll have to do a little research).
This would actually make a good video actually. Showing the different ways to facilitate this miking technique.
Thanks again!
Ultimate Studios, Inc make that video brotha!! Loved this one, M/S is a wonderful tool for depth in a mix!
Thank you! M/S is sooo versatile too. Gives you a lot to play with.
Alternatively you can record the same input on two tracks in your daw and flip the phase on one
Thanks mate!
This is gold!
Great stuff guys, relay helps me a lot!
Hey Jonathan!
Thanks for the comment. I'm happy to hear it helped!
Happy recording,
Charlie
4:53 LOL....
Love this sound. Soooo organic (Spelt o r g a s m i c )
Salad fingers?
@@ghostdrums Surely he'd be hitting the heads with rusty spoons, no? :p