i played this game 8 times and after 2 plays i didnt need the iconography and rulebook, only sometimes the reference book. After played all modes i prefere competitive the most, especially 3 players and agressive maps. Here is a lot more interaction, like in scythe. i love the cold war feeling. as more you play the game, it becomes more thematically und you can ignore the icons more and more. as you said you habe to play this game a lot. For me it is a heavy euro game with a great sci fi theme an 4x vibes
my opinions based on 15 plays. Setup is brutal. first time is 45-1hr easy. even after youve done it, know a scenario pretty well, out of the box its 30min+. the retail version without the minis might be lightly less but its still brutal im sure. this is on the low end of estimates btw. Learning and iconography takes effort. this isnt a game you setup, read the book, and off you go. there will be lots of referencing, lots of double checking, some bgg confirming, it takes an investment. the iconography is like learning a second language. i found it pretty intuitive and went much faster than anticipated, but again it takes some effort. add in solo/coop and there are more rules to learn to play. the crisis board and its rules add more to an already large endeavor. now, onto the good stuff. the juice here is absolutely worth the squeeze imo. if you like heavy euros, if learning games like mage knight isnt a big issue for you, if you like the theme, this is a must imo. its just so good. you will likely leave it setup and play in bursts, but the decisions and paths to victory among all the variability is absolutely fantastic. you will never feel like you lost from luck. variability and replayability in this game is off the charts. i wont play competitively very often. still i will likely run out of time in my life before i exhaust all the various combinations this game offers just in solo/coop. 14 houses, each with 2 techs, different scenarios, the crisis board, the techs available for each game, the fallen houses for each game, its just so vast. add in the different galactic events for each round and its gets even more vast. it really is almost infinitely replayable components are amazing. the table presence is off the charts. those focus cards pull levers and affect everything you do. everything is interlinked. nothing happens in a vaccum. you will learn how to compliment decisions with others, when to pull some levers and when to ignore others. you cant do everything every game and those decisions will matter. agenda cards, which are basically scoring goals, will steer you in different directions every game. the solo/coop mode to me is simply better than competitive. not only does it add the crisis boards pandemic style fires to put out every turn, it offers more variability in setup and scenarios. while the crisis cards are another level on top of an already heavy game i think it truly makes it shine even more. tldr: if you like heavy games, dont mind setup, and want something deep, this is it. if you are opposed to long setups, have limited space and time, or arent into losing hours to just learn a game, then this isnt for you
I personally really like this game, always love hearing all opinions on games I enjoy/ are not as interested in because it shows another side of things. Great video!
True Fact: I did a setup of this game with a friend , played 3 turns it took 3 hours with cross referencing rules and then another 1/2hr to pack it up, I wanted to like it, I just don't have the time to give it the time it deserves.
I appreciate how you don't go into extremes of this's a good/bad game, but provide much more nuanced point of view. I've been looking at Voidfall from solo perspective and eventually decided to pass for the exact reasons you've voiced. I'd love to try this game, but I see that the set-up time and table space would be a huge barrier to me. Also I can't justify to myself paying for components 3/4 of which I won't even use for solo. Nowadays when I'm looking at a soloable game I want to be able to fully experience every aspect of the game and utilise every component as if I've played it multiplayer.
I've had 6 games so far. 5 solo and 1 competitive. Past the learning in the first couple solo games - it's been a fantastic system. It's my top 2023 title, because like Frostpunk and Mage Knight before it - I greatly enjoy heavy involved solo games that stay out on the table for several long play throughs. The competitive game was also excellent, but I feel only got there because the other players were already coming in knowing how to play. That makes it more like a game I'm happy to play with those who also know it, but less eager to teach. Good job taking this heavy on. It's on the top out of what I know as well.
Thank you so much for your 'thinking out loud' about this game. There are a lot of aspects to realize before you jump into it, and you explained them very, very well. Again, thanks a lot for your efforts, this is a great and important video, at least to me !
Just came across your channel, and i have to say, i thoroughly enjoy your scholarly, observant, and even keeled tone you provided with this video I agree with yoh 100%. I find that the comments you are providing are pervasive across all David Turczi games. He designs with such wide decision breadth. And it seems to me that he wants us players to attempt many strategic avenues, but to also provide levers to pivot if you please. Trasactions of actions are often fairly easy, but you may find yourself very easily inefficient. This varies from a Vital Lacerda game, where the actions all carefully intertwine with each other. Now whether you should pivotn will always be a tough choice. Ultimately, all of the Turczi games are major projects, with Anachrony and Tawantinsuyu have a slightly easier entry point, but with Voidfall and Perseverance having double, perhaps triple the barrier to entry. Is the juice worth the squeeze? Deoends on how hard you want to squeeze :) What do you think ?
I like how you put out a very critical, yet balanced review of this very heavy game. This game has sooo much to offer, but it's very demanding as well. I pledged it just because of that, looking for a heavy masterpiece that will test both me and my group. We're currently still have more plays to go for On Mars and Perseverance, but this one is the next heavy "project". In the meantime I hope to get into the solo mode soon.
I really like this game. I’ll play it anytime. The setup and tear down don’t bother me. The heaviness doesn’t bother me. The learning curve related to the iconography doesn’t bother me. The fact NOBODY I know will play it does bother me. It does have a solid solo mode, but I’m just not a solo gamer.
Voidfall occupies one of my tables since it arrived and has never seen its box ever since. It gets played almost on a daily basis. I am absolutely addicted to this masterpiece and it still holds surprises and new twists to discover. Lately I have been playing around with engaging in "to be lost combat" as a tactical tool. My definite #1 game of 2023 and I doubt something will dethrone it in 2024.
@@gamer6172 Combat is deterministic in Voidfall. Before you initiate an attack, you can calculate the end result (there is also a handy app for it). Sometimes, initiating a combat, which you are going to lose, can create the tactical advantage to realize your strategy to victory.
i ve played 8 parties, only aggressive maps...but i cant understand this strategy 😅 i try to attack in the last turns ...pure galaxies with a lot of gilds
Love this game, but it is a beast to get to the table, 4 player competitive took 1hr set up, 6 hours play time, 30 mins cleanup. And filled my 4'x6' Wargame table. Definitely needs the right players and at least 1/2 a day commitment
I backed the Galactic Edition of this game and have played it twice so far. Once 2p and once Solo and I've decided to sell it. The game itself is...pretty good. I think I prefer it with people rather than the solo experience, the latter felt kinda boring and the whole solo Crisis system felt very uninteresting. I didn't feel like I was struggling against some galaxy-devouring threat, I just felt like I was being dished out some random mini-missions that were mostly easier to ignore than to address. With another person it felt a little more interesting although not really much like what I'd expect from a 4X experience. Honestly, though, my real issue with the game is that the Galactic Edition is just waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too bloated in terms of components and table space. The minis are especially annoying as at least with my copy getting them to stay attached to the stands is a real PITA. Similarly, the Corruption markers don't all fit cleanly into the die-cut positions for them. Maybe my copy just had some shoddy production tolerance 😕The numerous boards and trays are also pretty damn annoying, most of them take up a lot more space than they feel like they need to and even a small solo-setup of this game feels incredibly cramped. For a solo/co-op experience I think I'll stick to Uprising, it's a lot more random but at the same time waaaaay more thematic and the stakes feel a lot higher. For multiplayer....honestly this game doesn't feel interactive enough to be a great 4X. The only real interaction you can have with other players is combat and getting to the position where you can do this with other players is a hassle. You'll spend most combats drop-kick the AI fleets. So yeah, a bit of a disappointment to me. I'll keep Anachrony, this game can move on to someone else with a table larger than 10-seater (which struggles to table this beast cleanly 😕)
you have interaction by agenda cards, technologies and the combats as well as the event cards. I have 8 sessions and believe me, the game becomes more and moren interactive as in scythe. but it is true, you cant compare with eclipse
@@gamer6172 Taking other peoples options away is not the same thing as interacting with them. I'm glad you like the game, let me know if you find someone that wants a copy XD
@@gamer6172interaction by agenda cards? Taking something away unintentionally does not classify as interaction in my book. You would never deliver deny someone an agenda card if it didn’t benefit you more. Also, it is virtually impossible to keep track of what exactly would score on the opponent side.
I always think its a good thing when the rules are separated into their own book. Most wargames are like these days. I find the examples of play, the designer notes, the scenarios - everything is better.
Sooo tempted by this but I just know I'm never going to table it. And I'm trying to limit myself to one campaign/heavy game at a time which I can leave setup for a few weeks at a time (currently Oathsworn).
Stick to Oathsworn, it's much more fun than this game. I suspect once the KS buzz has worn off more people are going to be down on this game, it's pretty disappointing in a lot of ways. Would have been better as a videogame 😕
Thanks, I'm loving Oathsworn so far! Voidfall looks great but I agree with you that it has a lot of KS buzz which may not last long term - time will tell.
@@gregorys9629 Visually Voidfall is definitely a home run. It looks good. In terms of play I think it's much more of a take-it-or-leave-it experience. I think the standard edition is probably the better buy, almost certainly a lot less fiddly.
Theoretically, this game is definitely up my alley, but I don't know if I could get my friends to play it. Plus it probably won't fit on my dining table
I've been very surprised that people aren't comparing this game to Gaia Project more than they are. There are a LOT of similarities there (for me), so much that I actually think you could own one or the other and be just fine. While I prefer Gaia Project, I did think Voidfall was excellent, despite a few shortcomings here and there.
i played this game 8 times and after 2 plays i didnt need the iconography and rulebook, only sometimes the reference book. After played all modes i prefere competitive the most, especially 3 players and agressive maps. Here is a lot more interaction, like in scythe. i love the cold war feeling. as more you play the game, it becomes more thematically und you can ignore the icons more and more. as you said you habe to play this game a lot. For me it is a heavy euro game with a great sci fi theme an 4x vibes
my opinions based on 15 plays.
Setup is brutal. first time is 45-1hr easy. even after youve done it, know a scenario pretty well, out of the box its 30min+. the retail version without the minis might be lightly less but its still brutal im sure. this is on the low end of estimates btw.
Learning and iconography takes effort. this isnt a game you setup, read the book, and off you go. there will be lots of referencing, lots of double checking, some bgg confirming, it takes an investment. the iconography is like learning a second language. i found it pretty intuitive and went much faster than anticipated, but again it takes some effort. add in solo/coop and there are more rules to learn to play. the crisis board and its rules add more to an already large endeavor.
now, onto the good stuff. the juice here is absolutely worth the squeeze imo. if you like heavy euros, if learning games like mage knight isnt a big issue for you, if you like the theme, this is a must imo. its just so good. you will likely leave it setup and play in bursts, but the decisions and paths to victory among all the variability is absolutely fantastic. you will never feel like you lost from luck.
variability and replayability in this game is off the charts. i wont play competitively very often. still i will likely run out of time in my life before i exhaust all the various combinations this game offers just in solo/coop. 14 houses, each with 2 techs, different scenarios, the crisis board, the techs available for each game, the fallen houses for each game, its just so vast. add in the different galactic events for each round and its gets even more vast. it really is almost infinitely replayable
components are amazing. the table presence is off the charts.
those focus cards pull levers and affect everything you do. everything is interlinked. nothing happens in a vaccum. you will learn how to compliment decisions with others, when to pull some levers and when to ignore others. you cant do everything every game and those decisions will matter. agenda cards, which are basically scoring goals, will steer you in different directions every game.
the solo/coop mode to me is simply better than competitive. not only does it add the crisis boards pandemic style fires to put out every turn, it offers more variability in setup and scenarios. while the crisis cards are another level on top of an already heavy game i think it truly makes it shine even more.
tldr: if you like heavy games, dont mind setup, and want something deep, this is it. if you are opposed to long setups, have limited space and time, or arent into losing hours to just learn a game, then this isnt for you
I personally really like this game, always love hearing all opinions on games I enjoy/ are not as interested in because it shows another side of things. Great video!
True Fact: I did a setup of this game with a friend , played 3 turns it took 3 hours with cross referencing rules and then another 1/2hr to pack it up, I wanted to like it, I just don't have the time to give it the time it deserves.
All facts are true, or they wouldn't be facts.
facts@@wyatth2992
I appreciate how you don't go into extremes of this's a good/bad game, but provide much more nuanced point of view.
I've been looking at Voidfall from solo perspective and eventually decided to pass for the exact reasons you've voiced. I'd love to try this game, but I see that the set-up time and table space would be a huge barrier to me. Also I can't justify to myself paying for components 3/4 of which I won't even use for solo.
Nowadays when I'm looking at a soloable game I want to be able to fully experience every aspect of the game and utilise every component as if I've played it multiplayer.
Well said. I kickstarted it and have yet to tackle this beast.
I've had 6 games so far. 5 solo and 1 competitive. Past the learning in the first couple solo games - it's been a fantastic system. It's my top 2023 title, because like Frostpunk and Mage Knight before it - I greatly enjoy heavy involved solo games that stay out on the table for several long play throughs. The competitive game was also excellent, but I feel only got there because the other players were already coming in knowing how to play. That makes it more like a game I'm happy to play with those who also know it, but less eager to teach.
Good job taking this heavy on. It's on the top out of what I know as well.
Thank you so much for your 'thinking out loud' about this game. There are a lot of aspects to realize before you jump into it, and you explained them very, very well. Again, thanks a lot for your efforts, this is a great and important video, at least to me !
Just came across your channel, and i have to say, i thoroughly enjoy your scholarly, observant, and even keeled tone you provided with this video
I agree with yoh 100%. I find that the comments you are providing are pervasive across all David Turczi games. He designs with such wide decision breadth. And it seems to me that he wants us players to attempt many strategic avenues, but to also provide levers to pivot if you please. Trasactions of actions are often fairly easy, but you may find yourself very easily inefficient. This varies from a Vital Lacerda game, where the actions all carefully intertwine with each other. Now whether you should pivotn will always be a tough choice. Ultimately, all of the Turczi games are major projects, with Anachrony and Tawantinsuyu have a slightly easier entry point, but with Voidfall and Perseverance having double, perhaps triple the barrier to entry. Is the juice worth the squeeze? Deoends on how hard you want to squeeze :)
What do you think ?
I like how you put out a very critical, yet balanced review of this very heavy game. This game has sooo much to offer, but it's very demanding as well. I pledged it just because of that, looking for a heavy masterpiece that will test both me and my group. We're currently still have more plays to go for On Mars and Perseverance, but this one is the next heavy "project". In the meantime I hope to get into the solo mode soon.
I really like this game. I’ll play it anytime. The setup and tear down don’t bother me. The heaviness doesn’t bother me. The learning curve related to the iconography doesn’t bother me. The fact NOBODY I know will play it does bother me. It does have a solid solo mode, but I’m just not a solo gamer.
Voidfall occupies one of my tables since it arrived and has never seen its box ever since. It gets played almost on a daily basis. I am absolutely addicted to this masterpiece and it still holds surprises and new twists to discover.
Lately I have been playing around with engaging in "to be lost combat" as a tactical tool.
My definite #1 game of 2023 and I doubt something will dethrone it in 2024.
I had mine out on the table for a week, playing constantly. I did have to pack it away since we wanted to also play other games on the table.
what do you mean with to be lost combat?
@@gamer6172 Combat is deterministic in Voidfall. Before you initiate an attack, you can calculate the end result (there is also a handy app for it).
Sometimes, initiating a combat, which you are going to lose, can create the tactical advantage to realize your strategy to victory.
i ve played 8 parties, only aggressive maps...but i cant understand this strategy 😅 i try to attack in the last turns ...pure galaxies with a lot of gilds
Love this game, but it is a beast to get to the table, 4 player competitive took 1hr set up, 6 hours play time, 30 mins cleanup. And filled my 4'x6' Wargame table. Definitely needs the right players and at least 1/2 a day commitment
I backed the Galactic Edition of this game and have played it twice so far. Once 2p and once Solo and I've decided to sell it.
The game itself is...pretty good. I think I prefer it with people rather than the solo experience, the latter felt kinda boring and the whole solo Crisis system felt very uninteresting. I didn't feel like I was struggling against some galaxy-devouring threat, I just felt like I was being dished out some random mini-missions that were mostly easier to ignore than to address. With another person it felt a little more interesting although not really much like what I'd expect from a 4X experience.
Honestly, though, my real issue with the game is that the Galactic Edition is just waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too bloated in terms of components and table space. The minis are especially annoying as at least with my copy getting them to stay attached to the stands is a real PITA. Similarly, the Corruption markers don't all fit cleanly into the die-cut positions for them. Maybe my copy just had some shoddy production tolerance 😕The numerous boards and trays are also pretty damn annoying, most of them take up a lot more space than they feel like they need to and even a small solo-setup of this game feels incredibly cramped.
For a solo/co-op experience I think I'll stick to Uprising, it's a lot more random but at the same time waaaaay more thematic and the stakes feel a lot higher.
For multiplayer....honestly this game doesn't feel interactive enough to be a great 4X. The only real interaction you can have with other players is combat and getting to the position where you can do this with other players is a hassle. You'll spend most combats drop-kick the AI fleets.
So yeah, a bit of a disappointment to me. I'll keep Anachrony, this game can move on to someone else with a table larger than 10-seater (which struggles to table this beast cleanly 😕)
you have interaction by agenda cards, technologies and the combats as well as the event cards. I have 8 sessions and believe me, the game becomes more and moren interactive as in scythe. but it is true, you cant compare with eclipse
@@gamer6172 Taking other peoples options away is not the same thing as interacting with them
@@gamer6172 Taking other peoples options away is not the same thing as interacting with them. I'm glad you like the game, let me know if you find someone that wants a copy XD
worker placement games are seen as very very interactive, but i get what you mean: direct combats
@@gamer6172interaction by agenda cards? Taking something away unintentionally does not classify as interaction in my book. You would never deliver deny someone an agenda card if it didn’t benefit you more. Also, it is virtually impossible to keep track of what exactly would score on the opponent side.
I always think its a good thing when the rules are separated into their own book. Most wargames are like these days. I find the examples of play, the designer notes, the scenarios - everything is better.
I have TI4, VoidFall, and Eclipse.... I like them all, but TI4 hits the table the most.
I bought the folded space insert for the retail edition and it cut down setup time by half easy
Sooo tempted by this but I just know I'm never going to table it. And I'm trying to limit myself to one campaign/heavy game at a time which I can leave setup for a few weeks at a time (currently Oathsworn).
Stick to Oathsworn, it's much more fun than this game. I suspect once the KS buzz has worn off more people are going to be down on this game, it's pretty disappointing in a lot of ways. Would have been better as a videogame 😕
Thanks, I'm loving Oathsworn so far! Voidfall looks great but I agree with you that it has a lot of KS buzz which may not last long term - time will tell.
@@gregorys9629 Visually Voidfall is definitely a home run. It looks good. In terms of play I think it's much more of a take-it-or-leave-it experience. I think the standard edition is probably the better buy, almost certainly a lot less fiddly.
Theoretically, this game is definitely up my alley, but I don't know if I could get my friends to play it. Plus it probably won't fit on my dining table
What's the heaviest game you like to play that that doesn't feel like too much of a burden in time and effort?
I have AP just knowing there are three instruction manuals...
I've been very surprised that people aren't comparing this game to Gaia Project more than they are. There are a LOT of similarities there (for me), so much that I actually think you could own one or the other and be just fine. While I prefer Gaia Project, I did think Voidfall was excellent, despite a few shortcomings here and there.