7:28 This is Tom Purvis's model and I don't agree with this model. Horizontal forces are a reaction in response to the internal torque around the elbow joint due to the vertical force vector acting straight up at the contact area of the hand (these forces are a consequence of the creation of a torque for flexion at the elbow). Even the way you drew the forces, it follows that the force vector creates a bending torque for the elbow joint (there is a load on the elbow extensors as you drew it). However, the long head of the triceps helps adduct the shoulder and is a co-activator for the biceps so that its activation will be high since in the presence of a vertical vector we have a long external lever on the shoulder joint (there is always a need to create more torque for elbow flexion if the triceps is active and this explains why the biceps is highly active since pull-up is a coordinated creation of torque around the shoulder and elbow joints). The hypothesis with lateral forces is weak and does not stand up to criticism.
You are talking about equal activation of all muscles during pull-ups with different grips. And about stretch-mediated hypertrophy. So, in all types of rows and pull-ups, the long head of the biceps will not change its length due to the fact that the shoulder joint extends and the elbow joint bends, which could potentially negatively affect hypertrophy. We can see a similar effect in studies comparing hypertrophy of the rectus femoris muscle in squats and calf extensions. Or the long head of the triceps in overhead extensions or push-ups. Thus, we can conclude that rows and pull-ups are not the best exercises for biceps.
I used to most of my lat training narrow neutral, and my teres ended up lagging. Gave me very lower lat dominant shape. Trying to bring up upper back now, wide grip a couple times a week to hit teres, rear delts, and infraspinatus harder.
This is correct, the teres major sits above the lats and is the ultimate arbiter on back width. The people who swear by wide grip pull ups for a wide back are correct, but probably not for the reason they think.
6:26 There is no horizontal force. You can proof by performing this isometric on grips on linear bearings which some few gyms have. You can also proove that mathematically with mechanicle stick figure of connecting links. Sum of horizontal forces is 0 and there is no diagonal connections so the horizontal forces dont just cancel each other out, they are 0. The center of mass of the human is in the middle line (spine projection). That is why there is a force in the ellbow regardless of the fact that the forarm is perfectly verticle. As a matter of fact the inward force appears when hanging down and arms are angled and the body is relaxed. But as the body tenses and becomes sufficiently rigid, the figure is just weighing on the bar, not creating any other horizontal forces.
You can imagine a stick figure made of only connecting links and servos in the ellbows and shoulders. When those servos activate they will pull the ellbow and shoulder into 90° position and become just a rigid structure hanging on two points.
This is really helpful, Menno. I was hoping you would address the controversy about lat active range in overhead movements. You said that overhead movements stretch the lats (which is why a wide grip is not optimal), but what about the claim that lats lose active tension and therefore are not recruited optimally when the humerus is raised above about 120 degrees? I know that this is view is controversial (and anecdotally a lot of lats have been built with pull ups), but it seems to be a theory that won't go away. That's why, in the U.S. at least, you see a lot of people doing half kneeling diagonal pulldowns and avoiding pull ups and pull downs.
This applies to extension but not adduction. Also, you may still get passive tension even without active tension. So I generally avoid the last little bit on lat prayers but do recommend getting full ROM on pull-up type movements that also train other muscles.
@@menno.henselmans This is super helpful. Thank you. The adduction function of the lats does not get a lot of love from some of the biomechanics experts, who seem to program shoulder extension movements exclusively for the lats. I try to incorporate both shoulder extension and shoulder adduction movements.
Mentzer mentioned this decades ago although he advocated supinated because it put the bicep in it's "strongest position". Default in terms of ROM that we need to understand is that the position/movement that puts the muscles fully stretch is superior than one that shortens the range of motion.
Good information Menno. So growth probably happens from the tension on fiber to fiber. But because of motor unit failure maximal contractions will likely provide stimulus to all motor units if you train to failure. Also, functional differentiation can produce potentially produce different compositions. But likely not in this case do to using full range of motion from top to bottom. Super wide grip just isn't comfy IMHO.
You mentioned near the end that rows might not be the most effective back builder even though they train most of the back. Could you possibly elaborate on this and suggest alternatives or any reasoning why? Awesome video as usual!
Barbell rows train the back in general, they also recruit the lower back, they are even considered a hip hinge to some. You could remove the lower back from the equation by doing a chest supported row, it still wouldn't be the most optimal exercise for bigger lats, that would be pull ups for sure.
its also very easy for me to choose how much bicep i wanna engage, in rows i can disengage fully, the bicep is soft as cotton thru the whole movement. it wasnt always like that, when i heard scott herman say "pull with ur elbow not ur hands" it changed it all
This is interesting stuff although I will say in the supinated grip, you have more chance of tendonitis because your wrists are forced into supination(people have a similar issue is the barbell bicep curl), overhand/neutral grip variations are far safer in my opinion.
Hey, physiotherapist here, this isn’t true. Your grip has no real correlation with developing tendon issues, more so rate of loading. Also, tendonitis isn’t a clinical term anymore. Tendinopathy is the new terminology just fyi!
My own data with pull ups is going back many years and I even talked to a physiotherapist about this topic multiple times. My experience shows a different result. 1. My performance of doing barbell bicep curls after pull ups with a supinated close grip goes down significantly. 2. My curl performance decreased not (in relation) after medium wide pronated pull ups. Thumbless grip. 3. Doing only pull ups without a horizontal rowing movement decreased my lat development significantly. If I had to choose only one exercise for the lats I would take the rows. 4. I collected data for years and it made me nuts that I did not react as expected from what everyone else said. From very wide grip to underhand grip and different rep ranges and sets. For me personally are pull ups with a close underhand grip mainly a senseless bicep exercise with some lat support. Even though I found out what works best for me, I have no explanation why. Thankfully I am old enough that I don't need to explain everything. 😊
Yeah, there is a clear difference in the muscles involved simply because some grips are harder or easier depending on what you have been training, no need for studies to tell me that.
Please, Menno read this: If you look at the picture of the girl during this video , you will notice that one shoulder is dramatically raised, and the other held back in a lower position. You don’t tend to talk about shoulder blade position in any of your videos, and yet intuitively, it would have a large effect on the biomechanics of any given movement that involves the shoulder. Is this because research has been done and shown that there is no actual effect, or because there is no research on the topic at all? Poor external rotation, and scapular control in general is often a major risk factor for injuries. I’m surprised you have never covered it to the best of my knowledge. Thank you
Very informative. I believe it is often the case, that "truth" gets lost in terminology or terms. The effect of Lat exercises is a good example of this. "Wide grip builds wide back" becomes "Wide grip builds wide lats", which is objectively wrong, while the former may be (for many people) objectively correct. Wide grip pull-ups definitely spread the scapula. If one can spread the scapula when posing, one appears to have a wide back. Almost independent of lat development. Robert Kennedy of Muscle Mag International referred to the different effects as "Lat Belly" training (rows, narrow grip chins) and "Back Widening" (wide grip chins). Part of the context is that Bodybuilders used to AVOID lower lat work, because it could ruin someone's taper. A high lat look was preferred. So wide grip exercises MAY very well build the width of the back (via scapular flexibility/spreading and/or specifically NOT working the lats but working the Teres ? Who knows). Personally, I definitely feel narrow grip lat exercises lower in my lats, and wide grip higher. As an added note...if you think about, a wide grip chin is actually a neutral grip in action, not a pronated grip.
I fully agree with the points you have made. The wide grip chin develops the teres major more than the lats, and the teres major is more important for ultimate back width than the lats are. Look at anyone who has done wide grip chins religiously and you will see a 'V' shape, compare that to the more familiar 'O' shaped backs on top bodybuilders today where the lower lats are highly developed. Some people, myself included, prefer to have the wider looking (but not neccessarily wider) 'V' shape. You are also correct regarding scapular spreading, it wasn't until I incorporated wide grip chins that I could actually see my teres/lats in the mirror from the front. 'Bringing out' the lats is not broscience other than the nomenclature, it's also the teres major which is brought out, and wide grip chins are one of the best ways to achieve that.
I have 5 different grip options on my pull-up rack. I use all grips 2 times, one set without a 14kg weighted vest and one with it on, for a total of 10 sets. It has, and keeps on building both my back and my biceps.
@@tiesvanrooij2706 Yepp, and 3 sets of back-rows. And I super-set all this with 10 different variations of push-ups and 3 sets of weighted dips. Use the 14 kg vest on all my push-ups except for the one-arm push-up. Then I finish with 2 sets of heavy flyes and 2 sets of heavy chest-presses before I move on to shoulders, underarms and neck training. Could have gone even more into detail about my training but won't bother you with that. Oh, and yes, I also do shrugs to make it a complete upper-body workout. Takes me about 1h30 mins+/- a min or two in total. And don't even get me started on my leg workout, burpee workout, muy-thai workouts or my rowing-machine workouts.😜
6:27 I do NOT think there is any inward force from the hands on the bar. Instead, there is elbow flexion because, as the shoulders are at a lower postion, the elbows have moved inward; and on the way up again (as the elbows move out again), the biceps flex (in a lengthened position).
I personally find pull ups easier as I find a supinated grip not comfortable, maybe because of the carrying angle of the elbow (I'm a woman so maybe greater angle?)
Because the force pattern is entirely vertical, that's about it. Just look at how your arms are on a pull-up, your muscles are twisted and pre-stretched wich make the movement more difficult.
At 4:56 and onwards, isn't it an oversimplification to consider the pull-up as a single-plane exercice? I'd argue that the biceps are more so pulling the bar back than inwards, and thus pulling your shoulders -which are behind the bar- towards the bar, by closing the angle between the forearms and the upper arms. I'd be interested to see an EMG study comparing biceps activation on a bar vs on rings. You would predict lesser biceps activation on the rings, am I correct? I'm not convinced this would be the case.
Notice how the nerves from the tricep, forearm and traps do not show the movement pattern. While the focus is on the main muscle group, other muscles contribute to the entire functionality of the movement. Further, nerves can impact the force you generate with the muscles. Misalignment, overuse and weakness all contribute to the generation of force. Overuse can impact how your nerves function but can be offset with other exercises, but only cause harm in the future. To goal is to ensure you can lift yourself up and climb. No need to do more than 20 or 40 consecutive pullups.
With pulldowns and curls eliciting similar/same muscle growth in the biceps, my question is: can sets of pulldowns be factored into a training program when designating a total number of sets for biceps stimulation. For example, does 4 sets of pulldowns + 4 sets of curls twice a week = 16 total sets of work?
For those with f#$%ed shoulders, thumbs pointed up (hammer grip with appropriate attachment, i.e. midway between pronated and supinated) is the only way that won't continue tearing up the shoulder.
In these studies we are talking only about the muscles. How about the tendons? For example when we are doing chin-ups we feel that biceps is more engaged, but that in my opinion is because of the lengthening of the tendon. Am I right and is this better for the tendons strength in the biceps?
I find wide grip pullups hits the Traps, rear delts and Teres minor and major better Where a chinup close grip works your Lats and Serratus muscle better. I do both wide grip pullups and close grip chin ups in my program.
Narrow grip has close to full flexion of the elbow vs. wide grip that only flex close to 90 degrees. I would assume that the strengh in the angles close to flexion will be greater in close grip.
This was an amazingly informative video! Thank you, was nervous abandoning wide grip pull ups due to shoulder issues in favor of ring pullups which feel MUCH better. Awesome to hear that maximally im still effecting the same muscle groups, and moreso that im doing it much more optimally. The bit about how pronated grip over supinated grip is actually more beneficial for bicep activation was honestly mind blowing. Know im not alone in feeling like a supinated grip (wheter in chin-ups or bicep curls) feels like its hitting the bicep more. Kind of hard to wrap my mond around that not being the case.
Note: he said pronated pullups vs supinated Barbell CURLS. Not sure if that applies to chin-ups (might be the case that Chin-Ups>Pullups>Curls .... W/ Curls being the better SFR after compound pulls are done - just a hypothesis).
Why are pull-ups wide more for the lower fibres and pull-ups narrow more for the upper fibres? The horizontal fibres are involved in vertical abduction ("upper fibres") -> pull-ups with a wide grip And the vertical fibres ("lower") in a shoulder extension -> pull-ups with a narrow neutral grip?!?!! Where is my error in thinking?
It would be useful if (in this type of content) you would give advice exactly which exercise to use and which not. Eventually make a quick list from best to worst. As always good content. Thanks.
Sincerely-don't waste your time trying to find this, for a few reasons. 1. The "scientific" answer today may be different tomorrow. This happens all the time. Menno mentioned regional specificity (last I saw, lats had 7 or so sections) which was LAUGHED AT by "scientists". Many quoting "science" were SURE you couldn't train parts of a muscle. So the "facts" change. 2. Individual morphological differences are very real. What is "the best" for one person may not be "the best" for another person. For example, some people have no separate teres major! Some people have 3 major innovations to the brachialis under the bicep. Some have 1. There is a starting place though. Include: SOME kind of Press for chest and shoulders, SOME kind of pulldown and row for back, SOME kind of squat for legs, SOME kind of deadlift for posterior chain, SOME kind of Curl, SOME kind of Tricep ext..... you get the idea. Despite what anyone says, feel DOES matter, so start with the basics, but follow your instincts.
Back in the late 70’s early 80’s Nautilus had a lat isolation machine with roller pads that would provide resistance to moving your arms from above your head straight down to your sides. Not like the pullover machine that rotated forward.
Thank you very much Menno, great video! I have a quick question related to pullups and training in general, would be glad to hear your insight as well. It is advised that we rest between the sets until we feel ready and recovered, for pullups this period is around 5 minutes for me personally. My reps for 4 sets look like this for now as this is my traditional pull workout which lasts around 20 minutes: 10-8-7-6 I realize that I am highly affected by the rest times and the more time I rest the more reps I can do. As someone who works from home, I theoretically can do 1 set of 10 or 11 reps every working hour. In this case I'd hypothetically get 10x10 volume every pulling day. 10-10-10-10-10-10... So which way would be the most advantageous, considering I have the opportunity to strike a pullup set every hour and not doing it; am I or -is everybody- missing out the probability of better gains by limiting oneself to 20 mins traditional workout, or is my inference totally wrong and we need to totally destroy the muscles in a short time period hypertrophy wise? A bit confused :) Thank you in advance though
That would constitute increased volume via increased frequency. You can find many articles on the effects of that on my site. If you can recover from it, it should be beneficial. Lot of warm-up time though!
Anecdotally I found that having a 'volume session' (4-6 sets of pullups with traditional rest times leaving a rep in the tank each set) once a week combined with 1-2 'max effort' sessions (one all out set for max reps) sprinkled throughout the week lead to very good overall gains, you can add in sets slowly to the volume day and treat it like a specialization phase if you will
It takes me 5 minutes between pull up sets too. I listen to a full song between sets. I've annoyed people at gym over it over the years, but going any faster just means a poor set. I doubt I could ever do a ten sets in a single day no matter how much rest between sets. Something would become the limiting factor whether it be tearing up my hands, etc.. Keep on crushing it!
This gent, and Athleanx Jeff, are about the only two gents on the net that actually understand biomechanics, and can put that knowledge into understandable language. Thank you.
Interesting! In which situations would a wide grip pull-up have an advantage in carry-over to a certain movement or skill? Always found wide grip to feel a bit off.
Very informative, thankyou. I always wondered whether the pull up bars and lat pulldown bars where the ends slope downwards by 45° would make a difference. I guess they do allow a more natural movement for lats when you look at how lats join the body and direction of the muscle. Any studies on this?
One thing I didn't hear you mention was neutral grip pull-ups. I think that untrained people would benefit more from them, but I also wonder what difference in muscle recruitment they have as contrasted with pronated or supinated grips.
I love the science, but...videos of people actually doing the movements would help illustrate you points more clearly. Many of us are visual learners. Love your work, thank you.
No videos also hide the crucial fact that the elbows move inward during the movement - disproving the claim that there is no elbow flexion (on the way up).
I think it's important to mention that with a wide grip the sarcomers of the biceps arr not at their ideal length, therefore fheoretically it's possible that the latissimus dorsi is forced to do more work. not sure why this would not show up on an EMG, but not measuring the lats at more than one site is a possible explanation. in other words I'm not sure if the research paper was accounting functional differentiation.
i have a question i can do 2 chin ups in a set but cant do one pull up will training chin ups improve my pull up strength to the point i can do 1 pull up?
In this case, pronated means a traditional pull-up (palms facing away from you) and supinated (palms facing you) means chin-up. In the upper body, pronation occurs when the wrist rotates posteriorly and turns the palm down (with a 90-degree bend at the elbow). When this happens, the radius crosses diagonally over the ulna (two bones of the forearm). Turning a door handle is an example of pronation in the forearm.
What is your opinion regarding the pullover exercise, which utilizes resistance applied directly to the upper arm, thus minimizing biceps work and emphasizing lat work?
Menno, what effect on this does lat pull downs with individual cables in each had have? As opposed to a bar? Since it seems the immovability of the bar plays a part in bi activation?
Once again 'Mentzer et al' was right decades ago with his emphasis on narrow grip under hand grip pulldowns being the best for targeting lats and biceps. RIP Mike 🕯
Is the biceps not disadvantaged as you further pronate the forearm? I thought that would be the minor difference between the various degrees of grip angle. I would think that the brachialis would be basically always involved but there'd be a little bit of bias between brachioradialis and biceps (pronations vs supination). I think your comments about row mechanics with regard to elbow 'flare' can also be applied to pullups when you arch your thoracic spine to either bias more or less lats. I've also found that modifying my hip position changes the 'feel' on my lats in a vertical pull. A v-sit pullup or chinup really gets my lats sore. In any case, thanks for the video. I love doing pullups and I think your summary covers it well. Shoulder width neutral grip is my go-to. It basically comes down to how my elbows and shoulders feel, and varying grips slightly over time helps not get too beat up from one movement. 💪
what about the eccentric phase? does the same logic apply? considering the eccentric phase is easier > less biceps recruitment needed/done? and/or moving pattern changes a bit: not pulliing "inwards" as much in the eccentric phase?
I think the idea that a wider grip works back width more is that when you take a wide grip it flares your back out and you look wider. Stupid but i bet that is why. You also feel it more in the terres. There are some things that i trust gym knowledge over studies for and one would be supinated grip recruiting stimulating more.
So if the biceps minimise the lever arm for the lats during pull ups, what's the reason most people find chin ups easier than pull ups?? I always thought it was because lever arm
The biceps have better leverage during chin-ups due to forearm supination, and the moment arm for shoulder adduction is much lower. The rear delts also have much better leverage.
Yep, very wide grip pull ups have always felt sub optimal to me. They just don't hit the lats the same. Although I had to do some experimenting just now and I was surprised to find there was not a huge difference in feel between the different grip widths. Ive been training with a width of the centers of my index finers being 26 inches apart. My arms are roughly 22inches long from inside shoulder to the bottom of my hand and Im 5'11". Maybe its just that Ive been training at that width for so long but it really seems to hit my lats the way I want perfectly. It feels like the narrower grips hit the part of your lats closer to the spine, and the focal point of tension moves outward as your grip widens. But they do all seem to hit the lats and biceps at the same ratio. It feels to me like the wider grips hit the biceps more, but I thinks its just an illusion because my lats are much weaker in the super wide grip position.
Your opinion on the lats supposedly having “no leverage” at maximum shoulder extension i.e. end range of a dumbbell pullover, lat prayer or dead hang during a pull-up/Pulldown and it instead being “all pecs”?
"Wide grips are useless... bla-bla-bla" Maaan you should see the shock on people's faces when I do 20 clean Curved-Back Perfect-Form Extreme-Width Neutral-Grip Pull-Ups on the Monkey bars: Priceless! :D
I've cut out rows after reading Menno's material. Just been doing vertical pulls and lat prayers for lats, bent over reverse flies for rear delts. But the animation and explanation at 9:50 shows the middle and lower traps contracting with rows. Am I neglecting those traps by not doing rows?
Imagine if you put a trolley on each side of the bar, and gripped the trolley instead of the bar. If you could do a pull-up at all, it would all be on the lats to make it happen.
I have a question if grip width doesn't have anything to do with lats/traps development what caused my lats to be overdeveloped compared to traps. I have been doing always 2 Front lever hold exercises per week With 1 shoulder width pull up(inverted L pull up,L-sit pull up) and always 1 wide grip pull up? Is this cause by the isometric hold of FL if it have nothing related to width?
They're very lat dominant and incredible for developing them. If you care about traps and rhomboids, you can do one-arm rows, for instance, focusing on scapular movement (protraction / retraction) @@1m2ogaming
@@1m2ogamingFront lever pulls are more lats. Inverted L-Sit pullups are tricky, it depends on how you execute the movement. If your elbows are travelling past your body and you are squeezing the scapula at the top and stretching the scapula at the bottom, you are working your traps. However, this is really hard to do without leg support, usually people just use their lats by keeping their elbows tucked in. For traps specifically, just do inverted rows and focus on your scapula.
clear and thorough explanation. thanks. could you maybe do a video on the rec fem? and how its active in different exercises? I do my leg extensions with the seat far back and hip almost extended but I don´t know if my other exercises hit this head of the quad enough. Can the rec fem produce a good amount of force in a back supported hack squat machine? and How about close stance dumbbell bulgarian split squats? Does the rec fem of the back leg contribute to the force production?
Interesting video! Ironically the stretch I get from a very wide grip pullup (on an angled bar) feels so good on my shoulders, shoulder blades and thorastic spine and helps me relieve pain and tightness in this area like no other movement. But now I know why my biceps is always more sore after backtraining than actual curls. :-)
Menno, Christopher Sommer (American men's gymnastics) has been pointing out for decades that they are getting a significant part, if not the better part, of biceps development from the straight arm strength work. If you aren't familiar with what they do, compare rings planche, maltese work with humble (moderately-flexed-at-elbow) rope climbs - the latter being used there for something more like 'light' conditioning (don't just jump into these with expectations of being able to leverage these for the same functions that the gymnasts do, though, without extensive prior conditioning ... because - as per what Chris pointed out - you will get "a raging case of elbow tendonitis")
Horizontal pull, horizontal push, vertical pull, vertical push, quads, hams, and glutes, toss in a few accessory exercises, get the hell out of the gym and get on with your life.
If you are so impatient to leave the gym why are you going? You people make me seek with your superior attitude, nobody force you to train, nobody ask your opinion what to train.
@@MrOvidiuk Life is short. Do you want to spend it in the gym with a bunch of sweaty hyperventilating strangers? Stop obsessing over details that don't really matter much, if at all. Get in, put in the work, get out, and then go enjoy life. It's over in the blink of an eye. Peace!
Isn’t knowing the exact biomechanics helping to design your training more efficiently and therefore save time to get faster out of the gym and on with your life? 🤔
All I know for myself is close neutral grip pull ups feel amazing and wide pronated grip pull ups feel like shit.
You're not the Lone Ranger on that score, bud!
To me close pronated grip feels really hard on shoulders
Wide grip wrecks my underarms, while close grip is just fine
Close neutral grip feels better but i can do as many reps as wide pronated grip which feels horrible
7:28 This is Tom Purvis's model and I don't agree with this model. Horizontal forces are a reaction in response to the internal torque around the elbow joint due to the vertical force vector acting straight up at the contact area of the hand (these forces are a consequence of the creation of a torque for flexion at the elbow). Even the way you drew the forces, it follows that the force vector creates a bending torque for the elbow joint (there is a load on the elbow extensors as you drew it). However, the long head of the triceps helps adduct the shoulder and is a co-activator for the biceps so that its activation will be high since in the presence of a vertical vector we have a long external lever on the shoulder joint (there is always a need to create more torque for elbow flexion if the triceps is active and this explains why the biceps is highly active since pull-up is a coordinated creation of torque around the shoulder and elbow joints). The hypothesis with lateral forces is weak and does not stand up to criticism.
Speak English freak!
You are talking about equal activation of all muscles during pull-ups with different grips. And about stretch-mediated hypertrophy. So, in all types of rows and pull-ups, the long head of the biceps will not change its length due to the fact that the shoulder joint extends and the elbow joint bends, which could potentially negatively affect hypertrophy. We can see a similar effect in studies comparing hypertrophy of the rectus femoris muscle in squats and calf extensions. Or the long head of the triceps in overhead extensions or push-ups. Thus, we can conclude that rows and pull-ups are not the best exercises for biceps.
THIS IS QUALITY WORK! Thank you, Menno.
The most lat grow I've noticed was from narrow neutral grip. I combine it with medium grip on the second back day
Weighted pullups with narrow neutral grip has given me the best results.
@@JavierCespedes90same and I had 0 lats prior to that change
@@JavierCespedes90 I have always had big lats but I used to wide grip pullups, switched to neutral grip and would recommend everyone that.
I used to most of my lat training narrow neutral, and my teres ended up lagging. Gave me very lower lat dominant shape. Trying to bring up upper back now, wide grip a couple times a week to hit teres, rear delts, and infraspinatus harder.
An extra wide grip works the teras major back muscles, just below the armpits. I've read this several times and it works on me.
This is correct, the teres major sits above the lats and is the ultimate arbiter on back width. The people who swear by wide grip pull ups for a wide back are correct, but probably not for the reason they think.
6:26 There is no horizontal force. You can proof by performing this isometric on grips on linear bearings which some few gyms have.
You can also proove that mathematically with mechanicle stick figure of connecting links. Sum of horizontal forces is 0 and there is no diagonal connections so the horizontal forces dont just cancel each other out, they are 0.
The center of mass of the human is in the middle line (spine projection). That is why there is a force in the ellbow regardless of the fact that the forarm is perfectly verticle.
As a matter of fact the inward force appears when hanging down and arms are angled and the body is relaxed. But as the body tenses and becomes sufficiently rigid, the figure is just weighing on the bar, not creating any other horizontal forces.
You can imagine a stick figure made of only connecting links and servos in the ellbows and shoulders. When those servos activate they will pull the ellbow and shoulder into 90° position and become just a rigid structure hanging on two points.
I agree.
This is really helpful, Menno. I was hoping you would address the controversy about lat active range in overhead movements. You said that overhead movements stretch the lats (which is why a wide grip is not optimal), but what about the claim that lats lose active tension and therefore are not recruited optimally when the humerus is raised above about 120 degrees? I know that this is view is controversial (and anecdotally a lot of lats have been built with pull ups), but it seems to be a theory that won't go away. That's why, in the U.S. at least, you see a lot of people doing half kneeling diagonal pulldowns and avoiding pull ups and pull downs.
This applies to extension but not adduction. Also, you may still get passive tension even without active tension. So I generally avoid the last little bit on lat prayers but do recommend getting full ROM on pull-up type movements that also train other muscles.
@@menno.henselmans This is super helpful. Thank you. The adduction function of the lats does not get a lot of love from some of the biomechanics experts, who seem to program shoulder extension movements exclusively for the lats. I try to incorporate both shoulder extension and shoulder adduction movements.
Imagine Dr Mike's reaction to 6:21 haha!
Seriously, another great video. Found you via RP and I'm impressed.
Mentzer mentioned this decades ago although he advocated supinated because it put the bicep in it's "strongest position".
Default in terms of ROM that we need to understand is that the position/movement that puts the muscles fully stretch is superior than one that shortens the range of motion.
Good information Menno. So growth probably happens from the tension on fiber to fiber. But because of motor unit failure maximal contractions will likely provide stimulus to all motor units if you train to failure. Also, functional differentiation can produce potentially produce different compositions. But likely not in this case do to using full range of motion from top to bottom.
Super wide grip just isn't comfy IMHO.
You mentioned near the end that rows might not be the most effective back builder even though they train most of the back. Could you possibly elaborate on this and suggest alternatives or any reasoning why? Awesome video as usual!
Barbell rows train the back in general, they also recruit the lower back, they are even considered a hip hinge to some. You could remove the lower back from the equation by doing a chest supported row, it still wouldn't be the most optimal exercise for bigger lats, that would be pull ups for sure.
Because as soon as the elbows travel behind your torso, the lats are out of the equation.
No stretch-mediated hypertrophy is the main reason.
@@menno.henselmansare you saying that you can’t stretch the target muscles in a barbell row?
@@rogerbartels5690 You don't stretch the lats much during a row, no. It's often barely over half of full shoulder extension ROM.
its also very easy for me to choose how much bicep i wanna engage, in rows i can disengage fully, the bicep is soft as cotton thru the whole movement. it wasnt always like that, when i heard scott herman say "pull with ur elbow not ur hands" it changed it all
Very interesting stuff! Really glad I've stumbled upon your channel and hope so see more of this type of content!
This is interesting stuff although I will say in the supinated grip, you have more chance of tendonitis because your wrists are forced into supination(people have a similar issue is the barbell bicep curl), overhand/neutral grip variations are far safer in my opinion.
If external shoulder rotation is limited you have more chance of tendonitis, the suprinated grip isnt necessarily the issue.
Hey, physiotherapist here, this isn’t true. Your grip has no real correlation with developing tendon issues, more so rate of loading. Also, tendonitis isn’t a clinical term anymore. Tendinopathy is the new terminology just fyi!
@@Metalmachine18 This is wrong. Of course the grip is, for many people, related to tendon (or joint) issues!
My own data with pull ups is going back many years and I even talked to a physiotherapist about this topic multiple times. My experience shows a different result.
1. My performance of doing barbell bicep curls after pull ups with a supinated close grip goes down significantly.
2. My curl performance decreased not (in relation) after medium wide pronated pull ups. Thumbless grip.
3. Doing only pull ups without a horizontal rowing movement decreased my lat development significantly. If I had to choose only one exercise for the lats I would take the rows.
4. I collected data for years and it made me nuts that I did not react as expected from what everyone else said. From very wide grip to underhand grip and different rep ranges and sets. For me personally are pull ups with a close underhand grip mainly a senseless bicep exercise with some lat support.
Even though I found out what works best for me, I have no explanation why. Thankfully I am old enough that I don't need to explain everything. 😊
Yeah, there is a clear difference in the muscles involved simply because some grips are harder or easier depending on what you have been training, no need for studies to tell me that.
Please, Menno read this:
If you look at the picture of the girl during this video , you will notice that one shoulder is dramatically raised, and the other held back in a lower position. You don’t tend to talk about shoulder blade position in any of your videos, and yet intuitively, it would have a large effect on the biomechanics of any given movement that involves the shoulder. Is this because research has been done and shown that there is no actual effect, or because there is no research on the topic at all? Poor external rotation, and scapular control in general is often a major risk factor for injuries. I’m surprised you have never covered it to the best of my knowledge.
Thank you
Very informative. I believe it is often the case, that "truth" gets lost in terminology or terms. The effect of Lat exercises is a good example of this. "Wide grip builds wide back" becomes "Wide grip builds wide lats", which is objectively wrong, while the former may be (for many people) objectively correct. Wide grip pull-ups definitely spread the scapula. If one can spread the scapula when posing, one appears to have a wide back. Almost independent of lat development. Robert Kennedy of Muscle Mag International referred to the different effects as "Lat Belly" training (rows, narrow grip chins) and "Back Widening" (wide grip chins). Part of the context is that Bodybuilders used to AVOID lower lat work, because it could ruin someone's taper. A high lat look was preferred. So wide grip exercises MAY very well build the width of the back (via scapular flexibility/spreading and/or specifically NOT working the lats but working the Teres ? Who knows). Personally, I definitely feel narrow grip lat exercises lower in my lats, and wide grip higher. As an added note...if you think about, a wide grip chin is actually a neutral grip in action, not a pronated grip.
I fully agree with the points you have made. The wide grip chin develops the teres major more than the lats, and the teres major is more important for ultimate back width than the lats are. Look at anyone who has done wide grip chins religiously and you will see a 'V' shape, compare that to the more familiar 'O' shaped backs on top bodybuilders today where the lower lats are highly developed. Some people, myself included, prefer to have the wider looking (but not neccessarily wider) 'V' shape. You are also correct regarding scapular spreading, it wasn't until I incorporated wide grip chins that I could actually see my teres/lats in the mirror from the front. 'Bringing out' the lats is not broscience other than the nomenclature, it's also the teres major which is brought out, and wide grip chins are one of the best ways to achieve that.
@@asprinklingofclouds This is a great exchange. Somewhere, Vince Gironda is smiling.
I have 5 different grip options on my pull-up rack.
I use all grips 2 times, one set without a 14kg weighted vest and one with it on, for a total of 10 sets.
It has, and keeps on building both my back and my biceps.
10 sets???!!!!
@@tiesvanrooij2706 Yepp, and 3 sets of back-rows. And I super-set all this with 10 different variations of push-ups and 3 sets of weighted dips.
Use the 14 kg vest on all my push-ups except for the one-arm push-up.
Then I finish with 2 sets of heavy flyes and 2 sets of heavy chest-presses before I move on to shoulders, underarms and neck training. Could have gone even more into detail about my training but won't bother you with that.
Oh, and yes, I also do shrugs to make it a complete upper-body workout. Takes me about 1h30 mins+/- a min or two in total.
And don't even get me started on my leg workout, burpee workout, muy-thai workouts or my rowing-machine workouts.😜
6:27 I do NOT think there is any inward force from the hands on the bar. Instead, there is elbow flexion because, as the shoulders are at a lower postion, the elbows have moved inward; and on the way up again (as the elbows move out again), the biceps flex (in a lengthened position).
Why is chin-up easier than pull-ups in that case?
bc you re using your biceps a lot
I personally find pull ups easier as I find a supinated grip not comfortable, maybe because of the carrying angle of the elbow (I'm a woman so maybe greater angle?)
He explains it in the video - because it recruits more lats which are very big and strong. Far larger and stronger of a muscle than the bicep
Because the force pattern is entirely vertical, that's about it. Just look at how your arms are on a pull-up, your muscles are twisted and pre-stretched wich make the movement more difficult.
harder doesnt mean better
At 4:56 and onwards, isn't it an oversimplification to consider the pull-up as a single-plane exercice? I'd argue that the biceps are more so pulling the bar back than inwards, and thus pulling your shoulders -which are behind the bar- towards the bar, by closing the angle between the forearms and the upper arms. I'd be interested to see an EMG study comparing biceps activation on a bar vs on rings. You would predict lesser biceps activation on the rings, am I correct? I'm not convinced this would be the case.
I don’t think wide grip activates the back any more than close grip but I do think it makes the back wider by stretching it out that way
Notice how the nerves from the tricep, forearm and traps do not show the movement pattern. While the focus is on the main muscle group, other muscles contribute to the entire functionality of the movement.
Further, nerves can impact the force you generate with the muscles. Misalignment, overuse and weakness all contribute to the generation of force. Overuse can impact how your nerves function but can be offset with other exercises, but only cause harm in the future.
To goal is to ensure you can lift yourself up and climb. No need to do more than 20 or 40 consecutive pullups.
My biceps grew much more when I started doing pullups instead of chins ups. Yet the lats grew more from chin ups.
With pulldowns and curls eliciting similar/same muscle growth in the biceps, my question is: can sets of pulldowns be factored into a training program when designating a total number of sets for biceps stimulation. For example, does 4 sets of pulldowns + 4 sets of curls twice a week = 16 total sets of work?
Best grip is the one you can make the highest number of clean reps -> highest degree of muscle mass involved.
For those with f#$%ed shoulders, thumbs pointed up (hammer grip with appropriate attachment, i.e. midway between pronated and supinated) is the only way that won't continue tearing up the shoulder.
In these studies we are talking only about the muscles. How about the tendons? For example when we are doing chin-ups we feel that biceps is more engaged, but that in my opinion is because of the lengthening of the tendon. Am I right and is this better for the tendons strength in the biceps?
you know the tendon is attached to the bicep , right ?
I find wide grip pullups hits the Traps, rear delts and Teres minor and major better
Where a chinup close grip works your Lats and Serratus muscle better.
I do both wide grip pullups and close grip chin ups in my program.
Narrow grip has close to full flexion of the elbow vs. wide grip that only flex close to 90 degrees. I would assume that the strengh in the angles close to flexion will be greater in close grip.
This was an amazingly informative video! Thank you, was nervous abandoning wide grip pull ups due to shoulder issues in favor of ring pullups which feel MUCH better.
Awesome to hear that maximally im still effecting the same muscle groups, and moreso that im doing it much more optimally.
The bit about how pronated grip over supinated grip is actually more beneficial for bicep activation was honestly mind blowing. Know im not alone in feeling like a supinated grip (wheter in chin-ups or bicep curls) feels like its hitting the bicep more. Kind of hard to wrap my mond around that not being the case.
Note: he said pronated pullups vs supinated Barbell CURLS.
Not sure if that applies to chin-ups (might be the case that Chin-Ups>Pullups>Curls .... W/ Curls being the better SFR after compound pulls are done - just a hypothesis).
Why are pull-ups wide more for the lower fibres and pull-ups narrow more for the upper fibres?
The horizontal fibres are involved in vertical abduction ("upper fibres") -> pull-ups with a wide grip
And the vertical fibres ("lower") in a shoulder extension -> pull-ups with a narrow neutral grip?!?!!
Where is my error in thinking?
Doug Brignoli would be proud of you. Great video
When I heard about the drag forces that's exactly who I thought of. RIP
It would be useful if (in this type of content) you would give advice exactly which exercise to use and which not. Eventually make a quick list from best to worst. As always good content. Thanks.
Sincerely-don't waste your time trying to find this, for a few reasons. 1. The "scientific" answer today may be different tomorrow. This happens all the time. Menno mentioned regional specificity (last I saw, lats had 7 or so sections) which was LAUGHED AT by "scientists". Many quoting "science" were SURE you couldn't train parts of a muscle. So the "facts" change. 2. Individual morphological differences are very real. What is "the best" for one person may not be "the best" for another person. For example, some people have no separate teres major! Some people have 3 major innovations to the brachialis under the bicep. Some have 1. There is a starting place though. Include: SOME kind of Press for chest and shoulders, SOME kind of pulldown and row for back, SOME kind of squat for legs, SOME kind of deadlift for posterior chain, SOME kind of Curl, SOME kind of Tricep ext..... you get the idea. Despite what anyone says, feel DOES matter, so start with the basics, but follow your instincts.
How come you are stronger on chinups than pullups? Don't chinups have a longer ROM?
Back in the late 70’s early 80’s Nautilus had a lat isolation machine with roller pads that would provide resistance to moving your arms from above your head straight down to your sides. Not like the pullover machine that rotated forward.
Thank you very much Menno, great video!
I have a quick question related to pullups and training in general, would be glad to hear your insight as well.
It is advised that we rest between the sets until we feel ready and recovered, for pullups this period is around 5 minutes for me personally.
My reps for 4 sets look like this for now as this is my traditional pull workout which lasts around 20 minutes:
10-8-7-6
I realize that I am highly affected by the rest times and the more time I rest the more reps I can do.
As someone who works from home, I theoretically can do 1 set of 10 or 11 reps every working hour.
In this case I'd hypothetically get 10x10 volume every pulling day.
10-10-10-10-10-10...
So which way would be the most advantageous, considering I have the opportunity to strike a pullup set every hour and not doing it; am I or -is everybody- missing out the probability of better gains by limiting oneself to 20 mins traditional workout, or is my inference totally wrong and we need to totally destroy the muscles in a short time period hypertrophy wise?
A bit confused :)
Thank you in advance though
That would constitute increased volume via increased frequency. You can find many articles on the effects of that on my site. If you can recover from it, it should be beneficial. Lot of warm-up time though!
@@menno.henselmans thank you very much! I will check them out
Remember two things - exercise adherence and stimulate not annihilate.
Anecdotally I found that having a 'volume session' (4-6 sets of pullups with traditional rest times leaving a rep in the tank each set) once a week combined with 1-2 'max effort' sessions (one all out set for max reps) sprinkled throughout the week lead to very good overall gains, you can add in sets slowly to the volume day and treat it like a specialization phase if you will
It takes me 5 minutes between pull up sets too. I listen to a full song between sets. I've annoyed people at gym over it over the years, but going any faster just means a poor set.
I doubt I could ever do a ten sets in a single day no matter how much rest between sets. Something would become the limiting factor whether it be tearing up my hands, etc..
Keep on crushing it!
This gent, and Athleanx Jeff, are about the only two gents on the net that actually understand biomechanics, and can put that knowledge into understandable language.
Thank you.
The model at 8:15 has got some severe imbalances!
Interesting! In which situations would a wide grip pull-up have an advantage in carry-over to a certain movement or skill? Always found wide grip to feel a bit off.
Basically only to some weird movements you'd do with an equally wide grip.
@@menno.henselmansso iron cross for example? heard of people training for it using wide grip
Very informative, thankyou. I always wondered whether the pull up bars and lat pulldown bars where the ends slope downwards by 45° would make a difference. I guess they do allow a more natural movement for lats when you look at how lats join the body and direction of the muscle. Any studies on this?
Wider grip can Development more teres major. I really can feel the pump more there
You gotta put more visual examples of what you are talking about
Killing it with the videos Menno! Thank you for the content.
As someone who nearly always does neutral grip because of elbow and wrist pain from RA this is good news.
One thing I didn't hear you mention was neutral grip pull-ups. I think that untrained people would benefit more from them, but I also wonder what difference in muscle recruitment they have as contrasted with pronated or supinated grips.
What is neutral grip?
@@davidgifford169When your hands are facing each other.
I love the science, but...videos of people actually doing the movements would help illustrate you points more clearly. Many of us are visual learners. Love your work, thank you.
No videos also hide the crucial fact that the elbows move inward during the movement - disproving the claim that there is no elbow flexion (on the way up).
I think it's important to mention that with a wide grip the sarcomers of the biceps arr not at their ideal length, therefore fheoretically it's possible that the latissimus dorsi is forced to do more work. not sure why this would not show up on an EMG, but not measuring the lats at more than one site is a possible explanation. in other words I'm not sure if the research paper was accounting functional differentiation.
I feel it more in my lats when doing pull-ups just slightly outside of shoulder width apart with a pronated grip.
i have a question i can do 2 chin ups in a set but cant do one pull up will training chin ups improve my pull up strength to the point i can do 1 pull up?
Its most comfortable on my shoulders when i use a wide grip, so im sticking with that.
Before I watch the video, I'm going to guess neutral grip? I always felt neutral grip does way more for me.
So let me get this right the best grip for pull ups is suicide grip ,and slightly more then shoulder grip width?
Literally just watched an Alex Leonidas video talking about how great super wide grip pull ups are king
Guess I'll go do some pullups
Would you explain what you mean by pronated and supinated for us dummies?
In this case, pronated means a traditional pull-up (palms facing away from you) and supinated (palms facing you) means chin-up.
In the upper body, pronation occurs when the wrist rotates posteriorly and turns the palm down (with a 90-degree bend at the elbow). When this happens, the radius crosses diagonally over the ulna (two bones of the forearm). Turning a door handle is an example of pronation in the forearm.
On rows let's say cable row. Do we need high elbow rows or there a grip that hits everything?
What is your opinion regarding the pullover exercise, which utilizes resistance applied directly to the upper arm, thus minimizing biceps work and emphasizing lat work?
A narrow grip pull down gives the back a longer stretch range of motion.
Wouldn't a narrow grip stretch the back more @menno?
Yep.
Great video Menno
Menno, what effect on this does lat pull downs with individual cables in each had have? As opposed to a bar? Since it seems the immovability of the bar plays a part in bi activation?
Once again 'Mentzer et al' was right decades ago with his emphasis on narrow grip under hand grip pulldowns being the best for targeting lats and biceps. RIP Mike 🕯
You better be growing a nice mustache for movember.
Is the biceps not disadvantaged as you further pronate the forearm? I thought that would be the minor difference between the various degrees of grip angle. I would think that the brachialis would be basically always involved but there'd be a little bit of bias between brachioradialis and biceps (pronations vs supination).
I think your comments about row mechanics with regard to elbow 'flare' can also be applied to pullups when you arch your thoracic spine to either bias more or less lats. I've also found that modifying my hip position changes the 'feel' on my lats in a vertical pull. A v-sit pullup or chinup really gets my lats sore.
In any case, thanks for the video. I love doing pullups and I think your summary covers it well. Shoulder width neutral grip is my go-to. It basically comes down to how my elbows and shoulders feel, and varying grips slightly over time helps not get too beat up from one movement. 💪
Disadvantaged?
See mennohenselmans.com/best-grip-for-biceps/
what about the eccentric phase? does the same logic apply? considering the eccentric phase is easier > less biceps recruitment needed/done? and/or moving pattern changes a bit: not pulliing "inwards" as much in the eccentric phase?
Such awesome info. So much value
So how does one explain the fact that most people can do significantly more chin-ups than pull-ups…aren’t the biceps assisting more?
Excellent video bro thank you🙂👊
I think the idea that a wider grip works back width more is that when you take a wide grip it flares your back out and you look wider.
Stupid but i bet that is why. You also feel it more in the terres.
There are some things that i trust gym knowledge over studies for and one would be supinated grip recruiting stimulating more.
So if the biceps minimise the lever arm for the lats during pull ups, what's the reason most people find chin ups easier than pull ups?? I always thought it was because lever arm
The biceps have better leverage during chin-ups due to forearm supination, and the moment arm for shoulder adduction is much lower. The rear delts also have much better leverage.
@menno.henselmans Thanks Menno!
What about ring pullups & chinups?
Yep, very wide grip pull ups have always felt sub optimal to me. They just don't hit the lats the same. Although I had to do some experimenting just now and I was surprised to find there was not a huge difference in feel between the different grip widths. Ive been training with a width of the centers of my index finers being 26 inches apart. My arms are roughly 22inches long from inside shoulder to the bottom of my hand and Im 5'11". Maybe its just that Ive been training at that width for so long but it really seems to hit my lats the way I want perfectly. It feels like the narrower grips hit the part of your lats closer to the spine, and the focal point of tension moves outward as your grip widens. But they do all seem to hit the lats and biceps at the same ratio. It feels to me like the wider grips hit the biceps more, but I thinks its just an illusion because my lats are much weaker in the super wide grip position.
They will if you do them right
I love neutral grip. But i do a lot of variants
Your opinion on the lats supposedly having “no leverage” at maximum shoulder extension i.e. end range of a dumbbell pullover, lat prayer or dead hang during a pull-up/Pulldown and it instead being “all pecs”?
lat prayers are the 1 excersise where i feel my lats burn the most.
Why so much focus on biceps when the pull-up is for back.
Or maybe the muscle activation measurement method is imperfect
"Wide grips are useless... bla-bla-bla" Maaan you should see the shock on people's faces when I do 20 clean Curved-Back Perfect-Form Extreme-Width Neutral-Grip Pull-Ups on the Monkey bars: Priceless! :D
Great video 👏🏼😊
I've cut out rows after reading Menno's material. Just been doing vertical pulls and lat prayers for lats, bent over reverse flies for rear delts. But the animation and explanation at 9:50 shows the middle and lower traps contracting with rows. Am I neglecting those traps by not doing rows?
prob neglecting rhomboids and traps yeah. you will get some trap stimulus from the reverse flies but it won’t be substantial
I'd do high row type movements for those.
So it is like a nordic curl, but for the biceps.
How about the thumbs over or under the bar?
I have literal never had a stronger bicep pump than off of neutral grip or pronated grip or even supinated inverted rows bodyweight
Ja ik ga dus nooit meer de wide grip gebruiken
So why is a narrow pronated grip/“chin up” just easier to do?!
Because it puts your biceps in a more favorable position for efficient pulling...
Imagine if you put a trolley on each side of the bar, and gripped the trolley instead of the bar. If you could do a pull-up at all, it would all be on the lats to make it happen.
I remember in the 90s being told "train wide to get wide"
I've only started watching you recently, I thought you said "wide grip is good for the *pec* "
and thought "no shit that's the chest" 😂
I have a question if grip width doesn't have anything to do with lats/traps development what caused my lats to be overdeveloped compared to traps. I have been doing always 2 Front lever hold exercises per week With 1 shoulder width pull up(inverted L pull up,L-sit pull up) and always 1 wide grip pull up? Is this cause by the isometric hold of FL if it have nothing related to width?
Simple, front lever is hands down the best for lats!
@@dannymeslier6658 ok thanks. What about inverted L sit pull ups and front lever pulls are they counted towards horizontal pull?
They're very lat dominant and incredible for developing them. If you care about traps and rhomboids, you can do one-arm rows, for instance, focusing on scapular movement (protraction / retraction)
@@1m2ogaming
@@1m2ogamingFront lever pulls are more lats. Inverted L-Sit pullups are tricky, it depends on how you execute the movement. If your elbows are travelling past your body and you are squeezing the scapula at the top and stretching the scapula at the bottom, you are working your traps. However, this is really hard to do without leg support, usually people just use their lats by keeping their elbows tucked in. For traps specifically, just do inverted rows and focus on your scapula.
clear and thorough explanation. thanks.
could you maybe do a video on the rec fem? and how its active in different exercises?
I do my leg extensions with the seat far back and hip almost extended but I don´t know if my other exercises hit this head of the quad enough.
Can the rec fem produce a good amount of force in a back supported hack squat machine? and How about close stance dumbbell bulgarian split squats? Does the rec fem of the back leg contribute to the force production?
You can check my channel: I did a video on precisely this recently.
Interesting video!
Ironically the stretch I get from a very wide grip pullup (on an angled bar) feels so good on my shoulders, shoulder blades and thorastic spine and helps me relieve pain and tightness in this area like no other movement.
But now I know why my biceps is always more sore after backtraining than actual curls. :-)
Menno, Christopher Sommer (American men's gymnastics) has been pointing out for decades that they are getting a significant part, if not the better part, of biceps development from the straight arm strength work.
If you aren't familiar with what they do, compare rings planche, maltese work with humble (moderately-flexed-at-elbow) rope climbs - the latter being used there for something more like 'light' conditioning (don't just jump into these with expectations of being able to leverage these for the same functions that the gymnasts do, though, without extensive prior conditioning ... because - as per what Chris pointed out - you will get "a raging case of elbow tendonitis")
Experience >>>> studies.
drop that exposure papi
These are stuff immerging from 20+ years ago. Is it possible that it is that simple🤔🤔😢
Great video. Thank you, Coach.
M'y favorite grip is Neutral grip
Horizontal pull, horizontal push, vertical pull, vertical push, quads, hams, and glutes, toss in a few accessory exercises, get the hell out of the gym and get on with your life.
If you are so impatient to leave the gym why are you going? You people make me seek with your superior attitude, nobody force you to train, nobody ask your opinion what to train.
@@MrOvidiuk Life is short. Do you want to spend it in the gym with a bunch of sweaty hyperventilating strangers? Stop obsessing over details that don't really matter much, if at all. Get in, put in the work, get out, and then go enjoy life. It's over in the blink of an eye. Peace!
@@copernicus99 That's the secret! Peace my friend!
Looool ain't this the truth. Fitness content is too saturated
Isn’t knowing the exact biomechanics helping to design your training more efficiently and therefore save time to get faster out of the gym and on with your life? 🤔
Or just do all the different grips
so whats the best exercise for the lower lats?please answer
If there is such a thing as a 'best lat exercise', it's lat prayers: mennohenselmans.com/lat-prayers/
Cable Iron Cross pulldowns (bent arm @ 45° or straight arm) work the entire lats and the teras major very well.