Did Tears of the Kingdom Ruin the Zelda Timeline? (Zelda Theory)
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- Опубліковано 1 чер 2024
- In this UA-cam video, Andy from Zeldom explores how Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom fit into the larger Zelda timeline. He proposes a controversial theory that suggests Nintendo may be retconning all previous Zelda titles and explains how this would resolve inconsistencies and references to past games. Andy also highlights similarities between Tears of the Kingdom and past games, proposing that the new game may be rewriting past events as part of this retcon. Despite this theory, Andy plans to continue creating content about traditional Zelda lore and hopes to offer additional theories on how the latest games fit into the larger universe.
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⏱ Timestamps:
0:00 Intro
0:55 Timeline Descrepencies Since Breath of the Wild
2:47 Why A Zelda Timeline Convergence Isn't Likely
3:38 Why A Zelda Timeline Retcon from Tears of the Kingdom makes sense - Ігри
It's funny though. if hyrule warriors were cannon it would be a pretty good explanation for a convergence because that's what that game is.
Honestly, I wish they just went with starting a new, seperate continuity instead of basically retconning everything before BotW. Its kinda destroyed any investment I had in the series' lore.
I think nintendo is just doing complete retellings of everything and that BOTW and TOTK dont fit anywhere in the timeline because it is simply just a completely different world.
I dont think Nintendo is ret conning it per say. What I think they're doing is making TOTK take place so far in the future that even totk's past is after the main timeline. This way all past games could still be cannon but Nintendo wouldn't be restricted when making a narrative.
Yeah, this is the only way it works imo. There are just too many inconsistencies for TotK's past era to fit in the timeframe of the other games, but the theory that it takes place far in their future, with Hyrule being re-founded by the Zonai and Hylians after falling into a primitive era, actually makes sense.
This is what makes most sense. Also the Sheikah, I'm delaying ending the game, but I've watched the memories, and one thing I noticed is the lack of the Sheikah.
They do not serve Rauru's Hyrule, which would make sense, as they are servants of Hylia, and her bloodline.
They probably only started serving this Royal Family after Hylia's blood got introduced.
There's also the tradition of naming the female descendant of the Royal family "Zelda" mentioned by Rhoan in Botw, something that we see no signs of in Rauru's Hyrule, if anything it would probably be Sophia's in honor of the first Queen. Probably this tradition also came from Zelda's ancestor from Hylia's bloodline marrying into this new Hyrule Royal Family.
@@knight-of-aether its not that all three timelines with entirely different histories combined, its that the game you are playing is a projection of all three timelines at once. The story can be told in any timeline depending on what you want to consider canon, the game itself simply refrences it all at once to give the player that freedom in deciphering a Legend lost to history.
@JsYTA I think its more that all three time-lines reach the same point, with different histories. Because of the similarities, the time-line just blends together. No one in game can notice any problems with the history because there isn't enough left to make out that it was actually three different histories.
but whats the point of saying 'all the games before botw take place 'so far back in the past theyve become legend' then have zelda explicitly phrase it that she's in a time 'so far back in the past its become legend' in totk. like, whats the point of creating such a godawfully huge time gap between games to 'distance' botw from all other stories just so your next game can BYPASS THAT with time magic shenanigans?
It can be just going with the theme of "All Of This Has Happened Before And Will Happen Again" type of story.
I still favor the "Dragonbreak" idea; where the three timelines that were originally one (pre-OoT) break apart and eventually meld together, with various people, locations, items, clothing, types of monsters, etc. are meshed together into one world--like Aionios from XB3.
Same here I hoped it would turn out like that ngl
I'm still very much in favor of this theory tbh.
That just isn't what's happening in ocarina of time, though. If we take hyrule historia at its word, the downfall timeline IS an alternate reality, but the child and adult timelines exist within the same causality. Two completely different things are happening here, and jamming a vaguely similar magic system from a completely different franchise on top of that just isn't very coherent.
I am very much aboard for a Zelda game tackling this idea
@@superthorc6894 That makes two of us.
I'm willing to bet there's already a fanfic on that in the works, maybe having multiple Links and Zeldas from the different timelines coming together.
The problem i have with this idea (despite it being the worst possible way they could continue with the story) is that even if you retcon everything, it still doesnt make sense. The one game that they seem to want to keep canon appears to be skyward sword, since fi seems to be very much still a thing inside the sword. The sheer fact that there is a "goddess" who is credited for creating the master sword throws a huge wrench into this. Even the zonai have statues of hylia, and she looks nothing like a zonai at all despite them claiming to be "the gods that descended"
Then theres the issue of the triforce itself. You could say that during the story it never shows up so it might not even exist, but that cant be true either. Its image is everywhere throughout the games. Its on the master sword, in the throne room, the temple of time and its 3 smaller temples for each of the goddesses, sonia's arm tattoos. And ofcourse this isnt even starting on the 3 springs being direct references to the pieces of the triforce, or the fact it appears with zeldas sealing power. The triforce itself definitely seems to exist, but its just gone. You'd really think rauru would have tried using it when ganon started all his stuff
Then theres other minor issues with the timeline that doesnt seem to add up, like... ** SPOILERS AHEAD **
The ancient hero, we find out he was a half zonai hybrid that existed during the calamity. Yet this was long after rauru and mineru (the last remaining zonai) died. This guy supposedly existed during just the previous calamity cycle before botw, and its also stated there was numerous calamity cycles between rauru and the ancient calamity. How was there still zonai hybrids around then and where are they now if their genetic appearance could last that long in the bloodlines
It really feels like nintendo went into this with the express intention of just destroying the continuity, none of it makes sense anymore. Even self contained it still doesnt add up, like all the shiekah tech just vanishing. Cleaning away all the guardians is one thing (which i still doubt they could do), but the divine beasts and towers too, even stripping away the walls of the shrine of resurrection when that was just a medical facility and not a single person has anything to say about that, not even the shiekah tech developers
Hate to say it, but this games story is completely broken, so much so i hesitate to even call it canon at this point
They're Yiga. Like Zonai is an anagram of Nazo-i, Yiga is an anagram of 'yagi'. Not Owl, Boar or Dragon, but GOAT. However, 'jaki' is an etymological variant of East-Asian words like kim, kuma, and kami, which assocaites with all these "forest god" animal creatures. OUT OF these animal creatures comes the domestication of dogs out of foxes (as far as the myth goes, or mixup between wolf and fox). Which is the archetypical tale of bringing civilization out of hybridization.
Secret Stones are like a weapon that makes humans god-like, but also animal-like like wild bears. I think Yiga invented something like Secret Stones and became such cretures, while these other races close to Hyrule Royal family, namely Zoras, have a history of transforming every which way between all kinds of forms, and Gerudo being Hylians' closest offshoot without that power would covet it..
They follow up after Mineru as Sheikah and Ganondorf as Yiga. If you just match the inventinve fantasy visuals to standard japanese tropes like miko and shrines and Ainu, it's pretty straightforward.
@@sboinkthelegday3892 huh?
Totally feeling all of this, I‘m so in love with Zelda since I am a kid, the lore is meaningful to me. The game, even though it‘s great and all, left a hole inside of me. For mainly all the reasons you mentioned, it makes no sense, even as sequel for botw it‘s just not working. The most painful about all this is, it can‘t even be fixed, it‘s just how it is..
@@sboinkthelegday3892I'm very intrigued by what you said. Could you explain it a bit more in detail somewhere? I'd love to learn more. Like how there is much about shintoism in OoT. Cheerz!
As much as I loved the gameplay of tears of the kingdom, I just couldn’t wrap myself up around the story. It doesn’t make sense. I feel like Nintendo doesn’t care about the story at all.
Realistically, they just want to be able to make games without being constrained to ensure every little detail fits into the crazy timeline narrative that people have constructed.
@@plows2940Thematic continuity, yes. Chronological continuity, no. Like Final Fantasy.
We call that lazy writing, so glad they have conditioned people to accept it.
Okay but TotK contradicts BotW lore too, not just previous Zelda lore
You mean the timeline narrative that Nintendo themselves constructed, and have now seemingly abandoned?
I like to think anything before TOTK and BOTW is just a myth too far in the past to remember, and that the TOTK Ganondorf is simply just another reincarnation of Demises' curse, and that trying to fit those two games in the timeline is simply impossible.
You know, I would be fine with abandoning the timeline but Nintendo drummed up SO MUCH HYPE over it that I can't help but look unfavorably on it now. I was never one to enjoy hashing out this timeline, nor it's inception, so I feel like I'm a little opinionated on the whole Timeline thing, but they pushed so hard for it and now they have some seemingly crazy plotholes, like they didn't even try to keep to it. Is Nintendo losing it's polishing skills?
Totk flashbacks take place sometime after skyward sword but before the other games. Eventually so much time passes that the timelines converge into one timeline which would explain why there's references to all of the timelines in botw and totk since every game is canon to those games. Then the events of botw take place, and then sometime after that the present of totk takes place. The reason there would be two ganondorfs is because the one in totk is because of demises curse and the other ganondorf could've been influenced by totk Ganon since we do know that he can influence the outside world even if he's sealed. That might also be why the other ganondorf is so drawn to Hyrule castle because he's influenced by a person that's literally under that castle.
@@k1ng135 i have what i call the 'unknown wish' theory, that being someone made a wish so powerful/strong that it broke time itself, and all three timelines were crammed together as a result. and possibly even removed the triforce from existence. which is why even though zeldas part of totk takes place between SS and minish cap, no one ever thinks to simply use the triforce to wish her home, or bring back sonia, or wish away ganon getting the stone, or wishing him sealed instead of using rauru's magic. why past ganon isnt obsessed with getting the triforce like the others, why the light/golden realm is completely empty when the light dragon takes you there when you get the master sword back. as for ganon, maybe thats why its always been so hard for people to seal/kill ganon, his real body was always being held by the arm. the others were just people infected with his spirit/power/malice
I noticed that Naydra, Farosh, and Dinraal all have longer ears than Zelda's draconified form. They were probably the three goddesses who were Zonai and draconified to protect the land.
Yeah the ears make me think the dragons were zonai. Otherwise how would mineru know about the draconification process. It needed to happen first for documents to be produced later.
You would think that if the 3 dragons were once zonai, they would each have a 3rd eye since thats a pretty defining trait the zonai have
but wouldnt that require there having been three more secret stones?
That def requires more secret stones existing but Mineru's knowledge about what happens when you eat a secret stone doesn't seem like something that you could just guess from studying, the way she talked about it seemed like something that she's seen happen so I don't find it hard to believe that's how she found out about draconification.
@@jan.akisa. Actually possibly upto 6 more stones if you count in the giant dark dragon skeletons in the depths
This is a message from the Timeline Police. It says, "We are coming for you Zeldom. No one was supposed to know about the Zelda timeline dying. We are partnering with the TVA, and with you gone, we will maintain the illusion that the Zelda timeline is not dead."
😂
Here's how I personally help explain the convergence.
Think of BotW and TotK as an old school projector, with a drawing of link in the center. Now imagine you have three separate sheets for the projector, each representing different branches of the timeline, with drawings of refrences to other games
Each sheet is its own telling of the timeline, but the game we are playing is the projector displaying all three sheets at once simultaneously. Removing a sheet from the projector still tells its own version of BotW. The canon really just depends on what you want to take out. But its not the convergence people think it is.
I had this idea that the Hyrule in BotW and TotK is some kind of temporal and spatial dumping ground, a dimension of sorts that runs parallel to all these timelines, where everything happened concurrently and ran-off into this realm, like the Land of the Lost. That could be why there's all these conflicting references to past games. Especially like the Rito and Zora existing at the same time. Zelda herself can also now be considered some kind of a time paradox. Since Zelda is confirmed as a "descendent of Sonia and Rauru", but we never see or hear of them having any children. Perhaps that's why Hylia never made a connection with Zelda, it's because she should not exist, like she's not even perceptible to Hylia. Either Zelda is a paradox and should not exist or the royal family lineage is just wrong, which if Zelda has Sonia and Rauru's powers, then that can't be the case. If Age of Calamity is also canon in any capacity, then Zelda is a paradox twice-over. Which, time-travel is a messy subject in story-telling, but it sure is a lot more interesting than "oh, we forgot" or "sorry, we lied about what we told you"
Best theory yet! Works with the concept for a never ending, self producing, yet self destroying cycle within cycles. After so many years even the goddesses have gotten confused.
I mean, the Rito and Zora could exist at the same time. What we're told of how the Rito came into existence is impossible. And stupid. Like, to the Nth degree stupid and ridiculous.
Also, maybe Sonia was married before Rauru and is a widow. Zelda could descend from that lineage. Also, I think Age of Calamity was confirmed as the canonical prequel to Breath of the Wild.
Legends aren't embellished, they're symbolic. They still have to be coherent and logical in a way that fits with historical
Honestly, the cleanest theory... it's a parallel universe. No one really questioned Termina. Yes, it's the same link from Ocarina, but the world he accidentally ends up in is not his timeline. It is vastly different, with almost no references at all to the triforce, or the godesses, or hyrule itself. What if BotW and TotK are just on that parallel. That would explain... a lot. The hero from another world saves the day, then tells the tales he knew, but... well, tens or hundreds of thousands of years are separated in there, so... they get changed or forgotten. Or it's just a new one entirely.
Lol ig you haven't seen my Termina theories. I personally advocated for Termina being a "dream world" of Link's. My Tragedy of Time video highlights why I think it's actually more meaningful that way than *another* parallel world Nintendo nonsensically added.
I liked the way you phrased your idea btw. Well said.
@@Zeldom You are correct, I have not (I haven't had the chance to go through your backlog yet), but hey, thanks for responding! Always happy to add more fuel to the theory fires.
@@Zeldom if termina is a dream then how do you explain link retaining his gear that he picked up in termina after leaving termina
Exactly what I was thinking. The Dragonbreak theory that is currently emerging and floating around is unnecessarily convoluted and doesn't make a lick of sense to me but even it comes to a similar conclusion about botw/totk past being a combination of all past games in a single timeline where the events aren't exactly as we see them in those titles.
It's not even a theory its copying a term from a phenonema in The Elder Scrolls that happens under certain circumstances real trashy for people to want the Zelda franchise to steal complex original concepts like that.
@@AL-nv4gk I did hear that it's borrowed from Skyrim but not to what extent and never played that game myself. Care to elaborate or point to a good resource?
The old Zelda that i love is gone... as long as this game makes millions it will never be coming back. I loved totks gameplay, but it makes me sad that there will probably never be a return to form.
A lot of the games lore was created before we reached an agreed timeline, ofc we are gonna get retcons, some old things may not fit the creators vision anymore, ideas change
Yes, BotW was effectively a soft-reboot.
The fact that Aonuma said that the placement of BotW was for fans to debate, it meant he had no intentions of placing it anywhere in the timeline. The timeline was hurting the series and I'm glad it's gone.
@@groom_of_the_stoolright. I feel the games are the LEGEND of Zelda. LEGEND. Yes the events happened and there is somewhat a timeline but these are all legends in the universe. That’s why some games are so similar/names and characters get reused/locations move wildly…. It’s all retellings of legends.
@@groom_of_the_stoolThe timeline is really useful…
@@IdentifiantE.S The timeline is absolute trash
Timeline useful, timeline trash... lol we'll always have this discussion... ppl are 🐑
The most logical answer is that the Zelda franchise has undergone at least two major reboots, so the "timeline" actually consists of 3 separate continuities, and every new continuity formed with the release of a new Zelda game that changed the formula.
The first reboot happened with Ocarina of Time, and the second reboot happened with Breath of the Wild.
So, we have the pre-OoT continuity, which goes from The Minish Cap to The Adventure of Link;
the post-OoT continuity, which goes from Skyward Sword to Twilight Princess / Spirit Tracks (including the time-split);
the BotW continuity, which include BotW, TotK and all future games that will share the same formula.
Not all future games need to be part of the BotW continuity, because Nintendo can still decide to release a game with an older formula, take this for example: A Link Between Worlds was released in the post-OoT era, yet it's part of the pre-OoT continuity, so it's totally possible that at some point in the future, Nintendo will release a 3D game with the "old" formula and that game will be part of the post-OoT continuity.
TotK doesn't reduce all other Zelda games to legends. Simply, the Zelda franchise is SO vast that it is actually made of three "sister franchises", which are connected by references but have no actual lore connection, in fact are full of contradictions in that aspect. The games in every continuity can be reconnected to each other, but things get complicated and distorted once you try to form connections between different continuities. The result is the conception of weak solutions such as the Downfall timeline to connect the Pre-OoT and the Post-OoT continuities, and the Convergence theory to connect the BotW continuity to the rest of the franchise.
Parallel worlds such as Lorule, Termina and the world of the Ocean King are also different continuities which Link has managed to reach. When the Golden Goddesses created the universe they made many worlds, and every world tells a slightly different version of the same story. Basically, Termina and OoT's Hyrule, or Lorule and ALBW's Hyrule, or TWW's Great Sea and the World of the Ocean King are "sister worlds" the same way OoT's and TotK's Hyrule are.
minish cap proves that wrong as the ending of minish cap where you kill vatii is incompatible with four swords as such the bad ending of minish cap where you fail to reach vatii in time must therefor be the connector to four swords and thus the main ending must therefor lead to ocarina of time as for breath of the wild and tears of the kingdom we don't have all the connecting games yet however tears of the kingdom confirms it to be a fourth timeline
@@darkdagger5237 It doesn’t directly lead to Ocarina of Time, but rather the A Link to the Past version of Ocarina of Time, which is the Imprisoning War
@@GabrieleTarallo no because four swords adventures fits in before a link to the past and the good ending to minish cap does not contradict ocarina of time or skyward sword and doesn't even contradict twilight princess
@@darkdagger5237 yes
@@GabrieleTarallo is that yes to my statement or is that you trying to say I'm wrong without any evidence?
Ive seen the theory of the dragonbreak idea being thrown around, but im a little more inclined to the idea that time was altered similar to how it happens when the Flash goes back in time. You change one thing, you unintentionally change a wide array of things. Maybe Zelda meddling with time did that.
Yeah, that theory makes little sense if you actually pay attention to the beginning cutscene where it literally confirms that theory is false, because Ganondorf knew link and Zelda before Zelda went back in time proving that that was always supposed to happen no matter what
@@YuyaSakaki385It's a chicken-or-egg situation, or a "stable time loop", for a more concise name. Zelda's actions in the past indirectly caused the events (Ganondorf's attack) that would send her back to the past in the first place.
Stable time loops are kinda mind-screwy on paper, but they're easier to grasp than the myriad of time paradoxes we have in sci fi.
@@agent3689 that doesn’t change the fact zelda didn’t change time. time loops yes but if it’s a loop it’s always meant to happen
@@YuyaSakaki385 In this context, it's very hard to define whether or not Zelda truly "changed" time in any sense. Because of how her stable time loop was set up, we never see the outcome of the scenario where she did NOT travel back in time, because she was always meant to be there.
Because she was there in the past, the events could fold out so that she could eventually end up being confronted by Ganondorf underneath Hyrule Castle and sent back in time as a result.
What would happen in the "vanilla" scenario, where she never went back in time? Would she still have stumbled upon Ganoncorpse? Would she even have existed? We don't know.
We tend to see time travel as having a "divergence point", where the story starts from a "vanilla" scenario, and then time travel shenanigans in the past affects the future, so it splits off from the start scenario. Stable time loops don't have that kind of divergence, because the shenanigans were always meant to happen.
Time travel is wack asf.
@@agent3689 if you play tears of the kingdom and see all the memories and have a least played, breath of the wild is enough that you’ve seen dragons go into the sky it shows that the events in tears of the kingdom were always meant to happen because the dragons go into the sky, showing that they were always sky islands just hidden and if you see the memories each of the events line up to it being that nothing had originally changed at all
I’m in the “BoTW/ToTK is a separate linear timeline of its own wherein the other games are legends loosely based on events and confrontations with aspects of Ganondorf that happened in the last tens of thousands of years” camp. I actually don’t think it’s that bad of a thing- we are literally playing STORIES, so the only thing that changes is that these stories aren’t “real” in-universe instead of fiction only to us.
Think about it, if all three timelines, converge, their past is now a combination of all three which means they remember a completely different timeline than the three that we know. So whether or not you want it to be all three merging or just saying that all the other games were legends, it’s kind of saying the same thing because regardless there past is a different one that we know. But Personally, saying that all timelines converged keeps the value of the old stories.
When I think about it I see a company that doesn't care about the timeline as much as we do, and considering how much epic fantasy I read I'm probably right.
I can't wait for more theories from this game, and I would actually be more than happy to watch a super long video pointing out a bunch of examples where these two games "rewrite" history
In TotK when Zelda first arrives in the past, she outright said that she must have ended up in the "Age of Myth" (aka the era of the pre-BotW games). There is no reboot lol.
The flashbacks in TotK are obviously after Skyward Sword but before everything else.
"The past Legend of Zelda games may just be 'LEGENDS' of Zelda..."
... I like this a lot actually. I thought all the parallels seemed very weird to me but looking at this game in that light, it kinda makes perfect sense and settles the storm in my mind that was brewing trying to reconcile all these overlapping story elements. So thanks for that!
They should just outright declare that the timeline is not important. Or reboot the timeline starting with botw
Reboots are for lazy writers and even more mentally slow fans. Stop asking questions just consume more product.
I admit I did find the part of Rauru becoming the first king of Hyrule confusing along with Sonia, as the way he worded it made it sound like there was no rulers before. I know in the first game in the timeline, there was no Hyrule, as it was only refereed to as the surface.
My theory has always been that something happened to Hyrule thousands of years before the First Calamity and Sonia and Rauru only became king and queen of this Hyrule. From Creating a Champion we learn that no Gerudo male has been born since the chief who became the Calamity and given that we know that was 10000 years ago we can infer that this kingdom is about that old.
As for the other games, I think they still happened given we still have Fi and Hylia which confirms at least Skyward Sword happened but we also have historical records of Ruto and Nabooru's existences so that seems to confirm Ocarina of Time as well.
Fi & Hylia dont confirm anything imo (since their existence in myths wouldnt be a problem) and Nabooru could be seen as proof for the retcon (in both TotK & OoT a Gerudo betrays Ganondorf to become a sage)
@@hokton8555 But we don't know the names of the ancient sages either and Creating a Champion confirmed that Ruto and Nabooru were the ones who helped the Hero of Time. However, Fi and Hylia's existences do link directly to Skyward Sword and Link in this game is supposed to be an incarnation of the Hero's Spirit. All that stuff also doesn't defeat what I said from Creating a Champion so it's probable that this is only the kingdom of 10000 given that there was a civilization before Skyward Sword and a new Hyrule in Spirit Tracks so it isn't like this is the first time something like this has happened.
@@annieandelsieofarendelle3294 yeah but these two cases play out quite different
TotK is pretty much a retelling of both SS & OoT, I mean it works but tbh very unlikely
@@hokton8555 I always took the similarities as being part of Demise's curse, where Hyrule along with Zelda, Link, and Ganondorf are stuck in a cycle of rising and falling and rising again. Remember Mark Twain's saying, 'History doesn't repeat but it tends to rhyme.'
@@annieandelsieofarendelle3294 true but if why should Nintendo mislead their fans so much, since at every single possible point its said: "Rauru is the founder", "Rauru is the first king", "Foundation of Hyrule", "Origin of the dynasty" ect.
Or... hear me out, it is a multiverse that can allow as many retcons as Nintendo sees fit until LoZ as a property stops being profitable.
Yeah, when BOTW came out, I always believed in convergence. HOW it happened, I was never sure. Though I always wanted to point out that if there's magic that helped split the timeline in the first place, it's possible there's magic that fixes it up. (Not to mention the goddesses themselves could've intervened.) And yeah, now with TOTK? Yeah, I'm starting to feel the idea that this is a bit of a reboot. Way too many inconsistencies. I won't even bother listing, especially since you listed most. Though, there are still a few holes, even between the 2 games. A, in BOTW, the Sky Islands aren't up there. Or at least, they aren't visible. (Oh, and you can count Light Dragon too. Unless said dragon was keeping said islands hidden somehow.) B, there's the obvious bit about the Sheikah tech. All the shrines/towers/etc are gone. Only one guardian, and that's on top of Hateno Tech Lab, and inactive. All the rest, including the dead ones near the Temple of Time and elsewhere, are all gone without a trace. Nobody even mentions them either. It's ALL about the Zonai now, they're the new hotness, the new ancient civilization to go nuts for.
Now, one thing that you could say throws off all theories? The amiibo outfits. In TOTK, you can actually get them, without said amiibos, you just have to hunt around in the depths. Be it NES Link, Link's Awakening Link, (the remake,) Hero of Time, Winds, Twilight, Sky, and even the Wild outfit from the last game, they're all down there. All from different timelines. Which supports convergence, but if the past games are supposed to be legends now....where did these outfits come from? Now, the easy answer is to say they're non-canon. BUT, I'll admit, I'm not a fan of that idea.
it is the other way around. the games came out of the outfits
I believe BoTW and ToTK are in a different timeline that isn’t connected to the previous games, but parallels the events of multiple games.
1) ToTK’s past is Zelda 2’s backstory + OoT’s child events. Ganondorf’s betrayal of the king is the same in both ToTK and OoT, and the backstory of Zelda 2 is that the Princess falls into an eternal slumber.
2) BoTW is Zelda 1 + Majora’s Mask. In both BoTW and Zelda 1, an old man tasks you with saving Zelda and that’s it. Since Ganondorf is sealed, the parallel events of Majora’s Mask can still occur. In both BoTW and MM, you must go to four regions to help grieving spirits pass on, and find four giants to stop a calamity at the center of the world.
3) ToTK’s present is Zelda 2 + OoT’s adult events. You find Sages and get their Medallions/Stones. Giving the Master Sword to Zelda in the past is the same as pulling the sword from the Temple of Time. Pulling the Master Sword from the Light Dragon is the same as Sheik’s reveal in the Temple of Time. The finale of Zelda 2 is about fighting your shadow (Ganondorf in ToTK copies all of Link’s moves), and freeing Zelda from her eternal slumber.
If this pattern continues, then my guess is that the next game will be a mix of A Link to the Past + Skyward Sword. The story could be about the Ancient Hero forging the Master Sword and discovering the Triforce.
I dont think ToTK is necessarily retconning everything. The most simple explanation for me is simply that the old games are still ancient history even by the time of the memories we see in ToTK. Rauru and Sonnia might have simply re founded Hyrule based on the ancient kingdom of legend. This would mean that the time gap between the old games and BoTW might be a lot greater than we realised, enough for hyrule to fall and rise again.
I understand and think that your theory could very well be true, but saying that "so much time passed that previous games are barely remembered anymore", is a terrible excuse for countless plot holes and continuity errors/terrible writing. But still your theory could be the truth.
@@Boc_theSeamster Yea it is a terrible excuse, but i think it is what nintendo was going for since BoTW, so they wouldnt have to worry about any timeline placements while also not outright rebooting everything
Nah, they aren’t ‘legends’.
Its just a reboot, and fine to do.
References to old games are for fans, not lore bases connections.
Don’t overthink it, you guys forced the fudged timeline stuff, we don’t need to connect all the games, just enjoy it.
Nobody forced shit it was in the manuals since day 1 before we knew the world Zelda big cope 🤣
So, I have a theory. A hybrid theory of sorts (can’t say I intended the LP reference there, but I do like the band, so I’m keeping it). So, this is a piggyback off of MatPat’s (Game theory’s) take on a multiversal convergence with the Ganondorf based events being a branch off a a FOURTH timeline that began during Skyward sword. Remember how they killed Demise in two separate points in time (once as the Imprisoned, and once in the past when he fully returned)? It’s likely that the events of all other Zelda games happened in the timeline where Demise himself was killed, as Zelda and Link were around to become the founding members of Hyrule. Since they just disappear after they kill the Imprisoned, Rauru and Sonia (Sonia likely being a direct descendant of one of the other Skyloftians, or perhaps a Zelda-gen Skyloftian we hadn’t had the opportunity of being introduced to yet) fill that role instead. We’re just going to assume that since Demise conquered time itself, that the curse breached timelines. At some point, the events of Hyrule Warriors (yup, that’s the MatPat bit) converges the timelines, hence the reference to the other games. Also, this theory still has the least conflict without being the cop out “soft reboot” explanation, as the lanayru mining robots in SS could be interpreted as Zonai constructs; permitting the Zonai existence predating Hyrule long enough to be viewed as deities along with both Rauru and Sonia and Link and Zelda both somehow founding Hyrule.
I don't think this is a retcon at all. My thoughts on the matter are that this takes place tens of thousands of years at the end of the Adult Timeline after Wind Waker. The Zonai discovered the old Hyrule after it had been washed away and so Rauru came down and decided to found a new Hyrule. Hence why we have Zora, Rito, and Koroks all in this game. As well as explaining the description of the rock salt.
It could be at the end of all of them, as botw and totk becoming events that happen in all of them. They being so far into the future that similar events from one timeline ended up happening in all of them.
the timeline convergence theory came from a game theory video about how hyrule warriors being canonized would fix the timeline problem
The way I pictured it was Link is currently a few years after the events of BotW and Zelda is sometime in between the events of Skyward Sword and The Minish Cap. Which is also kind of confusing because I assumed Skyward Sword Link and Zelda went on to become the first King and Queen of Hyrule, but now I'm starting to think Link, Zelda, and Groose went on to make the civilizations in the different regions and perhaps Sonia is Zelda's daughter.
But the idea that the stories and history we've been told in past games are just legends, told and retold by many people with different details and aren't 100% accurate crossed my mind as well. The Zonai descending from the sky with their power could have been a variation of the Minish story and vice-versa. It kind of sucks that that is a possibility, but honestly, it could grow on me after a while
It makes you think of what's most important to Zelda fans. Is it the stories themselves or the logic behind them?
I do get a bit annoyed at the Aonuma comment, since he was the one that made the timeline and referenced it when new games were released.
I mean the easiest way for this to make sense is if hylia's way of becoming mortal was to have a child where the bloodline reincarnates her power. The zonai are the people of skyloft. Numerous games talk of help and the like from sky people. Twilight princess and spirit tracks are 2 of them.
The Zonai are aliens. Like from another planet aliens. It's a parallel to the ancient astronaut theory, where humans and aliens coexisted on Earth for a while.
How the heck would people in Skyloft become completely different people from human to zonai that just makes absolutely no sense
even with the "Myth" style aspect could point to SS still being the root of all timelines but given some off beats and no mention of the triforce but the aspect of the mark being on the hands was still in SS before link found the actual triforce. given demise's defeat in the past you are looking at an alternate timeline where demons lowered in some number and there were 3 dragons in SS. if we take key games (the ones that make it like a paradox) and figure out how they fit together you are looking at a possible single timeline that could lead to BOTW and TOTK with as you stated the possibility of the "past" shown in TOTK being an alternate or "true" history of OOT. heck the curse is of the demon tribes hatred (other games have demon tribe members as main boss' like ST and a few games before OOT like MC) also there could be enough time between all games that what if they were never split to begin with. when people think about time we humans think in vague distance. so aside from direct sequals many of the games could actually play out in a single timeline with many ages between them ending with BOTW and TOTK. which would allow them to be "real" and "myths" at the same time and no need for a "timeline merge" if it never really split in the first place.
TLDR; possibility of BOTW and TOTK being the end of an alternate timeline off SS or there never was a split in the timeline and the timespan between games is bigger than we actually think they are with exceptions for the direct sequals.
Awesome video
From my perspective, this isn't really a retcon but rather a new universe, let me use spiderman movies as an example:
Despite being different universes, the spiderman movies always have mostly the same main character and many characters that are the same but different, like Harry Osborn in Tobey's and Andrew's movies existing in both but having completely different stories, or Miles being really important in his own movies but just exists as a normal person in Tom Holland's Spiderman.
In Zelda botw's universe, the many events in the other games happened but in completely different ways, the hero of time and Ruto existed, but they never met Ganondorf, and that would explain the relation between the oocca, Picori the Zonai, they share the same stories but in different universes, in fact you could even explain inconsistencies between Skyward sword and the sequels of ocarina (like Fi never appearing, Hylia apparently not being important and the master sword being created by the sages in one but by the goddess and Link in the other) by saying Skyward sword exists only in the canon of botw/totk, and in the other universe similar but different events to skyward sword may have happened
I’d like to believe that the timeline prior to BOTW recalls events that are so far in the past that they are now seen as “legends” as you said. So I’m thinking that there must be a gap of several centuries, even millennial between BOTW and the last games on the timeline.
Great video!
My one problem with the LEGENDS of zelda theory is that the last 3d zelda game to come out before botw is skyward sword, so the thought of them making skyward sword and then immediately retconing it as a LEGEND of zelda in the next 2 games just doesnt sit right with me
I literally was awake last night trying to determine where totk is on the timeline or if it should be divided into two like totk oat and totk present
My theory is that the events shown in totk were the events before skyward sword like what if demise was the first incarnation of the curse and he wasnt placeint the curse but stating an already existing curse. And sonia was hylia and her and zelda existing at the sane time was the part where she died agsint the demon king and where she sealer him via Sonia dying and zelda being amongst those who sealed him and her name being remembered as hylia due to being a hylian and she also holds power over time. When Gannondorf summoned all his monsters in totk was the part where the demon king attacked with his army and everything...im not to good at explaining things but hopefully i explained it well enough to make sense lol, but i feel it ties in well and also explains the sealing war spoken of
Edit: also hylia was said to have worked together with the different races aroune the land to seal the demon king which zelda did in totk
The first point that is wrong with this is Sonia is said to be a Hylian by rauru proving she is not goddess Hylia Also hyrule did not exist in skyward sword, until after skyward sword, and that demise started the curse in the first place, and also in tears of the Kingdom if Hyrule was established before skyward sword, it would make no sense
That it would be established afterwards as well
@@YuyaSakaki385 won't let me add this to my other response but many parts of the theory line up well
Pick an argument somewhere else lol
@@IrishBrotato even though to you that lines up, the one point that does not line up is demise cause the curse in the first place, and that Sonia is obviously not the goddess Hylia she has the powers of time not light like rauru or hylia so if this was to take place before skyward sword, skyward, sword would’ve never happened, and it would’ve made no sense, because Ganondorf is not a demon like it stated, in skyward sword Hylia was fighting the Demon tribe the title Demon King does not change the fact that they’re not the Demon tribe
@@YuyaSakaki385 again what if demise wasn't truly the one to place the curse and was just the first incarnation which is why he looked so similar to Gannondorfs demon form also what if the truth of hylia was lost to legends and time... again theory lines up
Edit: and again it's my theory u don't have to agree about it
@@IrishBrotato I thought of this to end this happened after I put my comment if Sonia was hylia there’s no way she could’ve ever told Impa, who seemingly doesn’t exist, yet to tears of Kingdom, knowledge protect my future reincarnation, and that it said she sealed demise not Rauru
I think that Hyrule has been refounded several times over the millennia and it has always been given the same name by the will of the gods, that would be the only other possibility. However, it must also be said that TotK was not actually planned, which is why the whole thing could also play in a parallel world. Just to explain parallel worlds briefly: These places follow the same course as in your own world, the only difference is that if you feel like you should have done something differently, you change them, regardless of whether that was good or bad in hindsight. So it could be that what happened before TotK is not at all what we experienced in BotW. In addition to the story of Hyrule, this would also explain the many new characters. I'm sorry if the text isn't clear, English isn't my mother tongue.
I think it's pretty simple, the flashbacks in totk take place somewhere after skyward sword showing the founding of Hyrule. A big misconception is that hyrule was founded right after skyward sword when that was never even shown, for all we know hyrule could've been founded hundreds of years afterwards. And then some time before botw the timelines converge into one timeline. The reason i say this is because there are elements of every single timeline in both games so it would make sense that maybe so much time passed that all the events of the timelines happened in all the timelines causing them to become pretty much become the same timeline. And then of course the main plot of totk happens sometime after botw. I dont think these games retcon everything.
I mean it was mentioned in BOTW that all previous confrontations with Ganon have faded into legend. That doesn't mean the games are ret-conned tho
Prior to BotW: "Where did Zelda get her powers?" The goddess.
After BotW: "Where did Zelda get her powers?" Alien sex.
I wonder if there was a timeline split from Skyward sword. One where Demise was defeated in the "Past" and the Other where The Imprisoned, Demise's reduced form, was sealed in the "Present" time in the story. My theory is that Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom takes place in the timeline that Demise was defeated in the past, the Triforce was not obtained or discovered in the Silent Realm at least definitely not the same way, and Rauru was incarnated as a Zonai rather than a Hylian in Ocarina of Time. I also think that the prehistory of Tears of the Kingdom took place in parallel to Ocarina of time.
I've considered the very same thing and am trying to work it into a timeline theory, but there are just a very complications I'm still working through!
that does not explain finding objects from all timelines
I swear if they give us the "It was just a dream ending" I'll be a bit upset, but if it stops my brain from hurting, from thinking about the timelines it wouldn't be that bad.
I like his Introduction So nice and genuine😊
I say that Tears of the Kingdom and Breath of the Wild is in an entirely separate timeline. It starts when Link and Zelda lost the battle with Ganon at the end of Ocarina of Time but didn’t die. They retreated but decided to go back to free Hyrule. When they did a rematch with Ganon, Ganon, Link, and Zelda all died in the same battle causing Hyrule to break apart. Also, the original Master Sword completely shattered all the way to the handle the only thing left of the sword was shattered pieces. Thousands of years after Hyrule broke apart, the Zonai came from the skies and Hyrule is restarted Ganondorf comes and all o that stuff.
I believe Zelda caused a timeline where the ancient hero was never born, and essentially merged them back together by becoming an immortal dragon (i sense strong symbolism towards a dragon break). Sonia as the spirit of hylia and the ancient hero’s spirit weren’t needed in the new timeline, so the gods played a divine prank once again, on poor Sonia. Two spirits of hylia cant exist at the same time, and Sonia paid the price for that. I wonder if the story of the ancient hero is referencing to a first form of calamity ganon, or if it’s talking about the sealing of ganon. I wonder if the hand we saw on ganon wasn’t originally Rauru’s, but the first hero of the calamity, and it changed to rauru’s hand instead when zelda changed the course of history.
I explain this to another guy, but it is proven. Zelda never change the timeline. When you watch the cut scene were Ganondorf says their names before zelda goes back in time immediately proving the timeline never changed in the first place and even more proof is the sky islands always existed because in breath of the wild, the dragons always went back to the sky with clouds part when they go back to the sky, proving the sky islands could’ve always been there, and the light dragon just remained up there
she changed the geoglyphs existing at the very least@@YuyaSakaki385
how could that mess be ruined?
A reboot with “just legends” is oversimplified and arises from a misunderstanding of Demise’s curse. When he says that this prophesy applies across all time, we should believe him.
Zelda games are set over an infinite expanse of time in a world that is eternally bound by this prophesy. BotW and TotK can exist in the distant future, as a setting of this cycle. Since the cuese is infinite, then you can write settings of this story in 2-3 act installments, or even as stand-alone stories. A cycle can be set arbitrarily long after the previous cycles and still exist comfortably in the same canon.
Basically, people are confused because they aren’t applying the concept of infinity appropriately when they think of Demise’s curse and how it relates to the “timeline”.
It’s about cycles, not about a linear and branching timeline. Branching can still happen inside cycles, but there are no direct contradictions with previous lore as we can allow an arbitrary amount of time between stories, where stories are simply settings of the cycle.
In practical terms this works out as being a soft reboot that creates the license for more soft reboots in the future.
Many fans may not like it, but I believe that’s what Nintendo are doing. And I get it: if I were them, I would feel burdened and constrained by the pre-existing lore and I would be annoyed that it restricted the types of new games I could develop
I think you're on the right track, but that it's not necessarily a retcon. My theory is that BotW and TotK are a timeline of their own where those other games are depicted as legends. The other timelines still exist, but in the BotW timeline, various sources of inspiration created similar stories that were just that: Stories. So, not an overall retcon, but rather, a new continuity that makes reference to the others.
I don’t think they would retcon all of them, first of all, these games have to be like hundreds of thousands of years apart from each other so some things might not completely line up with others, second if everything was to be retconned then that wouldn’t explain where the master sword came from, there still would have to be something that made it, and leaving it just sitting there WITH Fi inside it still wouldn’t make sense, plus theres still the curse on link, Zelda, and Ganon, I firmly believe that there was a timeline cross between the 3 and that botw and totk are what results from it, especially since there are species from different games all in these 2 games, and my theory is that in the future we will have a third game in the botw world, where we have the triforce, and either the main villain will be Vaati, or someone new entirely to take on
King Rauru, the main Zonai we see in Tears of the Kingdom, is married to Queen Sonia who is a descendant of the Zelda from Skyward Sword. When Rauru wed Sonia there were very few Zonai left from what we see. Their race was dwindling, unlike the Oocca who had remained up in the sky.
When the people of Skyloft left for the surface it does not seem they went and made the Kingdom of Hyrule right away. Before settling the surface they defeat Demise and the curse begins which brings about the repeated cycle involving Zelda, the Hero, and Ganondorf.
When we hear of the Imprisoning War in Tears of the Kingdom it is Ganondorf and not Demise. Meaning this is some time into the cycle and the first time the seven sages seal Ganondorf.
Later in, in a Link to the Past, there is another Imprisoning War where things...don't go as planned (similar to Calamity). Ganondorf got a wish off the Triforce. The Dark World is created. Ganondorf and his army start to invade Hyrule and a little bit late the King of Hyrule and the Seven Sages seal him and his army in the Dark World again. Though it doesn't last.
During the 2nd Imprisoning War the Zonai are loooong gone and that may be part of why the second Imprisoning War was the last. Despite the cycle of rebirth.
As such, I don't think this is a retcon, but instead a 'repeat' of why the Imprisoning War failed (similar to how the second fight against the Calamity failed).
Knowledge becomes lost, so do the lessons learned and any mistakes. This is how and why Ganondorf has kept going between the Calamity in BotW and TotK.
A good example of how people can forget lessons and lose knowledge as time passes is the re-discovery of the Divine Beasts. Despite the fact the Sheikah have rebounded from their previous 'lows' in terms of numbers.
The Zonai, like the Oocca, are rarely seen as their relevance to 'modern' Hyrule diminished in time when they were not specifically needed. Only reappearing when Ganondorf (or his minions) try and abuse what was lost to the passage of time.
TL;DR - Not a retcon, but another entry which is an example of 'fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me'. Ganondorf does not want to be the fool and plays the waiting game as it has been clear that the Royal Family of Hyrule is prone to forgetting their past. Hence why the games involving 'time travel' are quite pivotal to the Zelda lore.
If Sonia were a descendant of Skyward Sword Zelda, she wouldn't have been so confused when BotW Zelda told them her name. Sonia would have said something like, "Oh, that was my great-grandmother's name."
@@groom_of_the_stool She is though.
As the first Queen of Hyrule and a Hylian she is a descendant of Zelda from Skyward Sword. Sonia's 'divine magic' is a clear indicator as the females of the Hyrule royal family are the ones to carry that power.
It is also not at all clear how many years are between Skyloftians settling the surface and Sonia being born. It easily could be ten generations.
I think your idea of the retcon timeline is the good answer, although I think Skyward Sword is still a part of the new timeline since it didn’t get in contradiction with any of the events in totk. Also, there are way more references to skyward sword in totk/BOTW that shows it definitely happens.
So you know how in Skyward sword, Demise's sealed form was killed, then they went back in time and killed demise again, then returned to the present to continue?
What happened with the timeline where Link killed demise in combat?
the bringer of demise is killed using the triforce and after the final battle you seal him not kill him this then leads to the moment when you use the triforce he is still in his seal at that time thus he is killed at that moment so not a time split
The secret stones must have a source, possibly from a "original" dragon, if we assume the three other elemental dragons were Zonai who were powerful magic users that went under dragonification during the Zonai War.
My personal theory is that TotK doesn't change the timeline, and just takes place after all the other games, like BotW. Basically:
- Zonai exist as a mysterious unseen sky civilization during all games before BotW (perhaps evolving from beings who created the ancient robots in Skyward Sword, were sent to the sky by Hylia, and remained there after Skyloft returned to the surface; this explains why Zonai-style technology appears in different games)
- The timelines that split in Ocarina of Time reach their ends and converge in a cataclysmic event, probably involving the Triforce (this explains why the Triforce seems to work differently in BotW and TotK, and why the world of Hyrule itself looks similar between the two games, while combining elements of all past games)
- Zonai return to the land, a new kingdom of Hyrule is founded, and the events of TotK and BotW come to pass.
The story is a mess even without considering past games, honestly. I don't know why Nintendo has such a big desire to throw a wrench into every past Zelda game's story every single time they release a new game in the series. It's not like the past games "restrict" the story very much, it would've been pretty easy to avoid that here if they just paid any heed to it at all
Or just... give any explanation at all for this weirdness. If the explanation is that someone (maybe Ganon) used the triforce to rewrite history and converge many timelines, causing all this weirdness, then I don't think anyone would have an issue anymore
This latest game is quite the mystery…
I'm so glad I'm not the only who thinks it's a reboot
I honestly don't believe they are retconning the games. I mean, the world has places from each timeline like arbiters grounds and stuff. I simply believe that a timeline reconvergence did happened but after multiple centuries after said convergence the stories became harder and harder to recount eventually leading to a regression in civilization and to Raru's kingdom of hyrule becoming the "first." In addition to the skyloft islands rising into the sky once more during Raru's era. Explaining his trust in Ganondorf because the adventures of the heroes faded away from memory.
I personally feel like the them song of BOTW and TOTK perfectly support this by the way they both go together, have little notes, and motif references to past themes. As if the wind is desperately trying to tell the real tales long forgotten to the inhabitants of Hyrule because just like the goddesses of time the wind is always there never seen or acknowledged too much but it is always there and it remembers the adventures of the heroes.
Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if whenever the Zelda series ends or moves on from Hylia and demise. That it could end with OOT Link just showing up to break the curse or something with the power of the goddesses of time taking the triforce. Destroying the malice of demise and sealing Hylia away from the world. Changing the theme song to that of the OOT theme containing all other game themes being more pronounced than the BOTW/TOTK theme song like the tales the wind was trying to tell are finally returning. (I know a lot of you will complain about Zelda ending or moving on to becoming another series, but eventually, the cycle will need to end, just as all things eventually meet their end)
I dont see how it doesnt make sense to Skyward Sword. I did notice that in BOTW Zelda has the entire triforce when using her light powers, so the triforce just has yet to become relevent since Skyward Sword. After Skyward Sword is when Hyrule is established, with Rauru erecting the temple of time. I can see how that may have been retconed or misinterpreted by the actual characters in the later games since well botk already take place 10k years after. 10k is a lot of time...however i can imagine some time travel w the zonai being culprit to separating botk into its Own timeline unassociated with minish cap onwards. Would love a look into that. Id pefer all refrrences to previous games to be purly easter eggs or having happened in a different order unique to a timeline botk creates? Maybe other games named people and built things based on botk rather than the other way around.
Is there a possibility that the story of skyward Sword is the same story that is referenced by Ganon in totk during the memories, when the zonai came down to the surface of hyrule they seemed like gods but could the legends about that get retold at the story of the skyloftians coming down to hyrule? They both had a version of link after all
Hey, good to see someone else talking about it. Also I think this is good that it is separate from all else. Alternative timeline
I think that the game is just so far into the future that it’s more of a ‘reestablish’ of hyrule. Tbh if it was the origin of hyrule or a
retcon, I think they wouldn’t of missed a chance to explain the origin of Hylian’s long ears. (it was said to hear the voices of the Gods in OoT but that’s the point that would’ve been retconned)
As for merging of the timelines, I stood by this statement back when BotW first came out.
It’s almost like there needs to be a game where all timelines converge into one and Links/other characters tell their stories and other legends. It would also be very interesting if that game’s map was surprisingly very similar to BotW’s. All Nintendo would have to do is say “Actually we changed our minds. this is canon”
I wonder if they would even make such a game? 🤔
It's kinda hard to say till we get more games but I think botw timeline might kinda be it's own separate series maybe or like u said "legends" different stories explaining some areas in that world
I personally believe that the distant past in TOTK actually takes place long after all other games
I could go into more detail but there's another person who knows more about what they're talking about that left a comment on a different TOTK theory video much more in detail
If I find it I will give credit
I hope they didn't get rid of it
I really don't like the retconning, but it does make sense in the current world they have provided.
Dinraal, Farosh, and Naydra quite literally ARE the Golden Goddesses. Zelda quite literally IS Hylia. All achieved "Godhood" via Draconification. The stories of the Golden Goddesses in previous games are just misinterpretations passed down as the "Legends of Zelda".
Yea, I know. I don't like it either, but it sorta fits.
that does not explain why sonia has time powers. skyward sword might be true
I'd like to think this is a reboot of the series and thus has its own separate timeline.
The way I see it:
Option 1) the timeline is now rendered as practically meaningless due to how far ahead in time it seems BOTW and TOTK take place.
Option 2) The timeline is getting completely rearranged and (this part is highly speculative on my part so bear with me) Skyward Sword caused a seperate timeline split and this is where things eventually lead up to BOTW. In my headcanon the entire fallen timeline goes here before BOTW to "legitimize" it as a seperate timeline and not an alternate reality.
Option 3) The timeline stays almost the same, the only addition is the Zonai stuff taking place pre Minish Cap as that is what used to be the earliest iteration of Hyrule before Totk altered that.
Option 4) the other games are actually apart of a multiverse and we get to explore important events in each universe's timelines
I think it’s a new timeline, where the events even before Skyward Sword were altered.
All they had to do was hire a loremaster, lmfao.
They could've had this exact plot with very minor changes, or even just some throwaway item descriptions.
Instead we got 20 years of Nintendo INSISTING Zelda has a coherent timeline, and then just throwing that on the ground without telling anyone.
Facts so mamy people coping and trying to playcate insisting there are no retcons and even if 20 years of lore was just thrown out it's fine 🤣
I have a theory that hyrule warriors 1 converged the timeline and hyrule warriors is a split timeline from Zelda Breath of the wild because the tiny white gardian went to influence the history splitting the timeline in 2 again
I personally believe (I haven't watched the video yet) that botw/totk are in a different universe/timeline or so far in the future that history has repeated itself.
idk if it was straight up a retcon, saw someone mention a thing called a dragon break?And that its a Parallel Reality Timeline. That seems more plausible than just "retcon the old timeline"
Still a great video! I did enjoy watching it so i am gonna leave a like!
And i think it was split in Skyward sword. People still complain but i believe....
just checked, video i watched was made by some dude named bioalpha
There are many variations of the dragonbreak theory, but at the end of the day the "Dragonbreak" timeline theory turns out to be a sort of timeline convergence, which I think isn't plausible. But, I do have to say that I haven't heard or been able to come up with any way to make a timeline work between TOTK and the traditional timeline, so if we're trying to force a timeline to exist, technicall Dragonbreak isn't impossible, but I think it's very unlogical and forced.
How do you explain Fi being present in the story of both BotW and TotK? If Skyward Swords events never happened, why is she there?
U know what, that theory actually works out well, i mean "the past games are more of a legend" thing, since Legends can have some truth and some Made up elements, i think is a plausible way to take in and out the elements that add up with the current world and those that really don't.
No it is not a reboot.
1:Breath Of the wild was stated to take place after Ocarnia of time
2: The Divine Beasts Are named after sages.
3: The Ancient sages in The twilight timeline was never killed and As Result The next generation of sages never awakened.
4: As a result it's safe to assume that Child timeline should be ruled out
Meaning it's over the adult timeline or downfall timeline.5: Regarding Divine Beast Being Named After Medili The Sage of Earth who is Rito Makes It Possible.
However there's the issue of the master sword.. The Ocean Probably Changed Due To Events.. The Rock Salt im Game Implied something happened toward the ocean levels lowered to the Point The Orginal Hyrule Re emerged.. Maybe Zonai Had Something To Do With It.. Or Maybe After Rauru Sacrifice himself to Seal Ganondoef, Zelda Told The Others To look for the master sword.. Which they did Consideeing That Link Rencarnated as Zonai To Fight The Calamity and He Had The Master Sword.. But the question is..Why Was There No Incarnation of Link When zelda traveled back to the past and When Ganondorf used The Sacred Stone tobecome Demon King?
Another Hint Is that there is an Island Named After Lineback From Is phantom Hourglass.
Yes Even When Zelda went Back To Past..That Ancient Past Is probably Long after Spirit tracks.
All of This is A Theory and Issue of The Master Sword is Subjective..But It cannot Be Denied That The Divine Beast is Named after Medli
Or Another Theory that the Distant Past Text place during the unification timeline.. Raura Bringing zelda to the past and Zelda Becoming A Dragon is what Eventually Merged Timelines Together.. Probably almost 4 centuries before Ocarnia of time becausecof The Gerudo Apprance in tears of The Kingdom and Guess how old they are? Around 400 Years at the Time of Their Death.
Who knows what could it be. But we could at least a narrow it down.
If it does take place in Adult time but it could explain why there is the absence of the triforce.. Because it is Still in The Sacred Realm
I really do think this is the case. But until we get more new titles, it's impossible to say for sure.
The youtuber Gamba Goons made a theory I really like which is that there's actually another timeline which is completely separate from both the adult and child timelines, which diverged from the main timeline *during the events of Skyward Sword* as a consequence of Link and Zelda's time travel in that game, and this new timeline contains all of the games previously labelled under the "downfall timeline", as well as botw and totk. Personally, I think this is my favorite theory. I don't think Nintendo is retconning previous established lore, rather they just made botw and totk so far in the future (not to mention in a completely separate timeline) that their connection to the other games is very weak and they can continue making more games in this new timeline without having to worry too much about continuity with past lore
Maybe there's just not a timeline. Maybe Nintendo just lied.
except that does not explain how you find things from all timelines
@@unfortunatefall8180 easter eggs? I mean I know it's not as satisfying as a canonical explanation but I really think all the references to other timelines are just easter eggs and aren't meant to be taken seriously as canon in the story.
there is a difference between easter eggs and these fully functional items. In botw they were easter eggs and references. here the intention was clear. there is also lore and races from all timelines. no matter how you cut it wether with multiple reincarnations or kingdoms of hyrule, a reboot is a reboot. Even the website acknowledges that these game are another story apart@@hudsonbakke8836
Saying that all of the past games were just "legends" feels like a really lazy excuse for why their new games seem to contradict them. Especially when they went out of their way to create their own timeline that included all the games up to that point. From what I understand, most people enjoyed studying the timeline and discovering the games' overarching narrative. Now those people just seem really confused because it doesn't add up anymore.
Excellent creation 😀
I do think this is valid I would rather have it where the dragon tiers events take place between skyword sword and minish cap I don't know maybe all the ganons are body's that the sealed Ganon made so he could take the triforce and free himself from the seal that he is under. But I don't know. If they rebut the timeline I hope it is in the next game with the event of that game flowing the death of this timeline and the berth of the next one.
I've always wondered about Skyward Sword's ending because it feels like it has a similar timeline splitting end to Ocarina.
Like there's the timeline where Link wishes on the Triforce to destroy Demise in The Imprisoned form and a timeline where Link defeats him after Ghiraham resurrects Demise in the past.
What if the timeline where Link and Zelda from SS create the kingdom of Hyrule is the one that leads to all other games, and the timeline when Link defeats Demise in the past leads to the events of TOTK and BOTW? In this timeline, the Skyloftians evolve into the Zonia and eventually they return to the surface, create the Kingdom of Hyrule, and Ganondorf does what he does. This could also explain why the Triforce is never named in BOTW or TOTK as it was never formed and used to destroy Demise in this timeline.
I could be way off, and I know that this would just further complicate an already overly complicated timeline, but it does make sense to me.
It's not a split because we have a continuous line from the past to the present; namely Impa having the bracelet and the same MS sitting in the socket.
You can't have both, a congruent past to present and a split. It's either, or.
If it was a split, Link & Zelda would return to a different present, where there's no MS sitting in the socket and no Impa waiting at the Sealed Temple. And we'd have an Impa with the bracelet and the MS sitting in its socket, both waiting for them to return in vain (since they'd return to a different present).
Seeing as the triforce is pretty much disregarded, among other things, I'd say yes. Having all three parts of the triforce is supposed to grant you one perfect wish. That's why previous ganondorf have all been obsessed with it
You should watch Thinking At Max Volume's video titled "How Tears of the Kingdom Fixes Zelda's Timeline"
Then watch Wiz Catches Lightning's video titled "How Tears of the Kingdom HACKS the Zelda Timeline"
As for TotK rewriting events. The entire series is based on cycles. Wiz Catches Lightning also has a video titled "Hyrule's History Doesn't Repeat Itself" which is about how events play out in similar ways throughout the history of Hyrule. Yes, in real life you can't have a set of paradoxes merge into one time; like where Ganondorf kills the king in OoT, then Link both fails and succeeds to defeat him, and he also warns the king in the past. Time travel, at all, creates endless problems for fantasy writers. It might make, conceptually, more sense that an event in time can split based on the outcome. But, in reality, that would mean that three different outcomes all happened in one moment in one time. It already makes no sense to suggest that timelines can split. If you think about it, it, there is no event you can point to that could cause this split. Because any split would have to have different outcomes.
For example; let's use the fight with Ganondorf in OoT. In that fight, Link both succeeds and fails. But how? What specific action caused this split to happen? Maybe Zelda never threw the Master Sword back to him. Maybe Link just got smashed when Ganondorf transformed. Maybe the castle actually fell and crushed Link and Zleda/they didn't make it out in time. It could be any number of events.
But, if we pick one. Let's say the castle fell on Link and Zelda, killing them, in one timeline. And not in another. Now we have another set of problems. How did one pair succeed where the other didn't? Did Zelda trip? Did a different rock fall just right and knock them out? Did Ganondorf manage to lock the front door from the outside?
If we then adopt one of those outcomes, then we then have another layer of problems and differences. This goes for infinite events into the past. It's a reverse butterfly effect. And you never actually have a split timeline, but rather two similar, but parallel timelines that were never connected.
The point is, in science fiction and fantasy, if you examine timeline splits too closely they always make no sense. There is always a preceding cause that must be different between the timelines, and you will never find the actual split. So, merging three timelines is no less ridiculous or paradoxical than a split in the first place.
So, yes, Skyward Sword absolutely happened, there is no doubt about that. All of the games also happened, the timeline split. Then... TOTK ending spoilers:
Zelda accidentally merged the timelines back together via the infinite spiral of her timetravel (again, watch the videos, they explain how this works).
I think I am on board with the dragon-break idea that has been going around, but my initial thought was indeed that it was all retconned as well.
The only issue I keep running into is things like the Goron statues. As impossible as it is for them to exist at the same time, how else would the Goron’s have the capability of getting the exact likeness we know those Goron’s to be.
Naming random lakes and forests are one thing, but the statues are in-world acknowledgement of what these ancient chiefs and heroes looked like.
But then we also get the matter of Lord Jabu-Jabu statue being nothing like the real deal, which is what causes this constant circular arguments I have with myself.
Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom are so far into the future that every timeline happened at some point in its past. Effectively merging the timelines. The ancient past we see in tears of the kingdom is still the distant future of the other games. So far in the future that the Hyrule that was flooded in Wind Waker became land again. When Raaru and Sonia establish their kingdom, they believe it is the first Hyrule when in fact it is simply the next part of the cycle. Hyrule is founded. It lasts for generations. Then it gets destroyed. Generations later it gets founded again, with no one alive to remember the previous kingdom.
Let's be real the zelda team never takes the timeline into considiration when making a new game, they do their own thing and crudely staple the current game on a arbuturity timeline, one that probably wouldn't exist if wind waker didn't decide to flood hyrule
Literally incorrect. Wind Waker and Twilight Princess were both made to be after Ocarina of Time. Wind Waker even says so in the intro.
Yes they shunted older games to fit into it, but most of the 3D games did have a set place.
@@tyranitararmaldo A line of exposition in the intro or a reference to a previous game doesn't mean the developers care about or consider the timeline. Those could have been added in at the end as easter eggs.
I think it's much more likely that they just make the game they want to make, and if there's an easy way to tie it in, cool. If not, oh well.
Wind Waker wouldn't be a different game if that line linking it to OoT weren't there. Twilight Princess wouldn't be different if the Hero's Shade weren't suggested to be the Hero of Time.
@@derrickcrowe3888 they absoulutely would be different there the most memorable plot points about those games.
The Zelda Multiverse is a thing now
It's a Legend, they tend to evolve over time