Great to see reviews of available (in store) inexpensive planes. Not everyone can go to sales or wants to go eBay. Next we need inexpensive plow planes!
It was Rex Krueger who tossed the no4 over his shoulder to see if it was made of ductile cast iron, it was, and it didn't break, just the way ductile cast iron should behave. When you consider that a brand new Stanley requires exactly the same set up as just about any other brand new plane, it should make you think. I own a full set of Faithfull hand planes, very economical and I'm very pleased with them, and yes, they too required the "Full Monty" before they were good to go. As for Lie Nielson and the other premium plane manufacturers, I would never buy them, my woodworking skills are not premium plane standard, and I don't think a top of the range hand plane would some how turn me into a master craftsman overnight. So I think your absolutely right in promoting these and other less than stellar hand planes to new and experienced woodworkers and leave the premium hand planes to master craftsmen who make a living from them.
Yes, this guy tossed it on a concrete floor, then complained that it was not straight! Ductile iron is just that, ductile, and rather prone to bending rather than breaking. Guess where it was bent - the nose and tail, just where it hit and bounced. Surface grinders do not produce curved surfaces but throwing your tools on the floor?
I had put my 2 cents in before. If you got the money go ahead and buy the more expensive ones. But with the prices of old planes going up. And you still have to work on them. It makes more sense to me to buy the new ones and do a little bit of work on them.
I was a solid boatbuilder for a lot of years and I loved my Lie Nielsen planes. They performed beautifully. One day I woke up and my ridiculously expensive tools were just gone, never to be seen again. That was a bad day. I just got the $15 Jorgensen mini and I'm very pleased, indeed. Yeah, it needed maybe a couple hours of love to make it prim and proper and it's a little fidgety , but I can easily get professional results with it without any issues. I can tell you that there is no way in hell will I buy another 60 1/2 Lie Nielsen if Jorgenson has essentially the same thing minus the spa treatment. I am perfectly capable of giving a tool the spa treatment and I rather enjoy the process. Jorgensen hit the ball out of the park, IMHO. Excellent value stuff.
I am sorry to hear about the loss of your tools! I would have been devastated tbh, worked hard to get the tools I have as did you. And I agree with you the Jorgensen line is awesome, just gotta put in some work! Thank you for sharing!!
I saw a #4 at Lowes the other day and after watching your video decided to return and buy the Jorgensen. Got it home and started to work on it by cleaning the shipping oil and checking the sole for flatness. It's not dead flat, but close, so minor wet/dry sanding paper work will yield perfection. Put a secondary bevel on the blade and worked the back of the blade to ensure it was perfectly flat. It is. Also, it's 90 degrees dead on, but I did smooth the edges of the sole with 1000 grit. I'll likely repaint it black as I just can't have an orange plane in my collection. So far, I am confident she'll cut great shavings. I'll post results after finishing the sole work.
Really enjoyed the series! I just got a Woodriver 5-1/2 and love it. I had to put in a lot of work to a couple of old Stanley - similar to what you had to do with the Jorgensens.
Just bought the smooth plane. The handle is a bit small for my hand, but looking at it, a quick rasping and sanding near the bottom will give room to my pinky finger for a nice fit.
I have my reliable standleys but had to try these. I’ve been super impressed. I’m gonna end up painting them though. Orange just looks wrong in my till.
Bought a jorganson low angle block plane and I’m sold. It was flat and square out of the box. All I had to do was flatten the iron back, although it took a lot of honing. The bed was nicely machined and well supporting of the iron. The mouth adjustment was good and tight to the body. Overall, very impressed.
I am very happy to hear that!!! My 60.5 had issues as you saw I may buy another. The 102 also had issues but I bought a 2nd one and it has 0 issues! QC worked in your favor! :D
I recently bought the 60 1/2 jorgenson to replace my old Stanley as my jobsite block plane. I was very surprised at the quality and only had to sharpen the blade and clean up the corners, no shim needed. Now I've got a great block plane that I wont be too sad about if it gets damaged or lost on the job.
Awesome reviews Jamie. I'm gonna have to check out those Jorgensens. One more thing to consider for guys or gals on a tool buying budget are the vast numbers of old Stanley and Sargent woodworking planes on eBay and in old flea markets. I've picked up everything from a Stanley Squirrel-tail 101 (100-1/2), to a Stanley Bedrock 604, to a half dozen different block planes. The quality of the earlier planes is almost invariably superb and the prices are generally way lower than most of the China-made rubbish at the big box stores. You need to educate yourself about what you're looking for but a bit of homework really pays off. A great place to start is Patrick's Blood and Gore - I know it's a weird name but it's an amazing resource for every plane that Stanley ever made. If you could do a comparison video of some vintage planes to the Lie Neilsons and Jorgensens it'd be a terrific yarn. Thanks again and keep up the great work.
I would love to do a comparison like that! Deff tough tho because Stanley over the types had alot of changes I wouldn't know which to pick lol maybe I'll start collecting different types and do a video that way
@@BatCaveCreations A good starting point would be a comparison of the beefy Stanley Bedrock 604, which ended production in the early 1940's, to the Lie Nielsen No. 4 Smoother. Lie Nielsen borrowed heavily from the Bedrock design, including the distinctive 'flat-top' body shape. Good Luck.
@@wintermutt9090 604 would be a great start! I'll deff need to keep an eye out for one but they are $$ and idk about investing that much for a video haha maybe I'll try to borrow one from a friend :) I would love you do a video looking at ALL stanley and comparing then to LN. Looking at what they improved and why. Man... it would take a long time to collect all those haha. Maybe just a comparison from experience with the Stanley's I've had before and the LN I have now
I completely agree with this assessment of those planes. YES, they need work...but then THEY WORK. Having said that, I'm sticking to my Stanley planes and their clones, (Sears, Montgomery Wards, etc.)
Think about what the guys did 500 years ago, and they did just fine work. It's more about the skill of the hands than the precision of the tools. Keep the good stuff coming.
Yes! I was just talking to a guy about this. The old wooden planes didn't have all the bells and whistles we do now. All these new features are not *needed* but make it easier... sometimes haha Thank you!!
Thanks for the reviews. I am sure it took a great deal of effort on your part. I am an artist and wood crafter and needed a Mini Plane (Squirrel Tail) for occasional use. I didn't want to spend a lot of money for a plane that I would use only once in a while. I found the Jorgensen Mini Plane at Lowes for $15. (About the same price as a Big Mac Value Meal) I could return it to Lowes if I didn't like it. Well, I love it. I'm going to keep mine. I flattened and sharpened the blade by hand. (The blade is too small for my honing guide) I flattened the sole. My plane didn't need a shim like your plane did. My only complaint is the orange color is butt ugly! But, I don't have to look at it very often. 😂
Haha I get you about the orange I want to strip mine and repaint it but haven't yet lol It's an awesome little plane and the price is amazing imo. Thank you!!!
I have a few Clifton plane's the first ones before Clifton Changed hands, and they have the two part chip breaker, they are absolutely amazing plane's to use.
I have the 60 1/2 and the 102 (101) and they both work great. The only thing I notice really on both of them is, they were machined but never had that final hand held touch to ease edges and finesse them for final feel. They're great if you want to spend a few minutes to get them user friendly. Oh and honestly, the paint wasn't very well applied. Runs here and there. Only aesthetics but still kind of annoying.
I agree!! A lot of people have been stripping the paint and repainting them black or other colors and having fun like "decorating" them haha I almost started a FB group about it lol
It was Rex Krueger who launched the number 4 over his shoulder, just to see if it was made of ductile cast iron which shouldn't break, it was, and it didn't.
You can avoid the paper shims entirely by grinding/honing the blade to the proper angle to get it square to the plane body. Took me about 10 minutes on a diamond stone to get it right. (referring to the small guy)
You are correct, I tried that before on a diff plane but got annoyed by having to keep trying to find that angle and then repeat it haha I may use painters tape or just file the bed down. But lots of diff ways to get it to work! Thank you for sharing!
I have enjoyed using mine so far. I may try a Stanley lever cap on the NO. 4 sized one. The side thrust of the adjuster on the 60 1/2 could possibly be reduced with more of your deburring and I might try to give it more clearance in the slot.
@@BatCaveCreations I just tried a 1 7/8 Stanley lever cap. It fit so well I didn't even have to adjust the hold down screw! This one was too rough for my Stanley NO. 5 but I think it just found a new home.
Finally got to watch this video. Great job on the series! Good to know about the lifetime warranty on the #4, because I know there will be a lot of destroyed caps. Getting into the political piece of this, I'm waiting for the LN/Jorgensen lawsuit. These are an obvious clone of a currently produced product. Or did LN license their pattern to Jorgensen?
Why would they waste their time and money on a law suit? Sure they could be considered a clone, but they are not exactly taking customers from Lie Nielsen. The people buying the Jorgensen planes are not the same people buying Lie Nielsen planes. Sure you may get similar performance out of them, but those that are willing and able to buy Lie Nielsen are going to buy Lie Nielsen. they are two different markets. It would be a different story if Jorgensen was putting in the same fit n finish and selling around the same price point as the Lie Nielsen planes, then they would be in direct competition with them using a clone of their planes. After saying all of that, their is a good chance that Lie Nielsen did license their designs to Jorgensen specifically to fill that hole in the market at the lower price point as they knew they would not be competing against them for market share. They are to much of a copy of Lie Nielsens designs for a company like Jorgensen to think that they could get away with selling them as a complete retail product through a business like Lowes, it makes the most sense that they are licensed designs.
True that! But with a price difference that large some may not have the option to drop so much $ a plane. Pay more = less time/work, pay less = more time/work. That's the balance/scale that goes into alot not just planes haha
I tried the 60 1/2. It went back to Blowes. Then hopefully back to the land of compulsive gambling and chop sticks. Cause making chopsticks was about all mine was ever going to be good for. I'm no master shimmer like yourself however. Also my iron was magnetized so that was a new experience at least.
Deff give it another shot! I did a dedicated video to the 60 1/2 swimming is easy just how to figure out how many pieces of paper you need lol I will be filing the bed down so I don't have to shim in the future. You can also look for old stanley planed on the FB marketplace and ebay. Or even local flee markets. They may need some fiddling but that's to be expected for any block plane south of $100+ ahah
@@BatCaveCreations I find it holds an edge longer than Bridge City. I really like the guides on the side of Bridge City Block plane. Harvey Tools does a good job on both the modern design and the manufacturing too. I think Nielsen has better steel.
Was it me, I would buy several of the No. 4s and ignore the others. Why bother with something that you already have a solution for? You can tune the No. 4s to do just about anything you need to do, so why not buy several of them and then mark them according to their assigned purpose?
![[UA] NAVI проти G2 Esports | Blast Premier Fall Final](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/QWlIm4FGESQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Great to see reviews of available (in store) inexpensive planes. Not everyone can go to sales or wants to go eBay. Next we need inexpensive plow planes!
It was Rex Krueger who tossed the no4 over his shoulder to see if it was made of ductile cast iron, it was, and it didn't break, just the way ductile cast iron should behave. When you consider that a brand new Stanley requires exactly the same set up as just about any other brand new plane, it should make you think. I own a full set of Faithfull hand planes, very economical and I'm very pleased with them, and yes, they too required the "Full Monty" before they were good to go. As for Lie Nielson and the other premium plane manufacturers, I would never buy them, my woodworking skills are not premium plane standard, and I don't think a top of the range hand plane would some how turn me into a master craftsman overnight. So I think your absolutely right in promoting these and other less than stellar hand planes to new and experienced woodworkers and leave the premium hand planes to master craftsmen who make a living from them.
I beleive good tools make for good work .
No I don't have a premium plane. I make my own
Yes, this guy tossed it on a concrete floor, then complained that it was not straight! Ductile iron is just that, ductile, and rather prone to bending rather than breaking. Guess where it was bent - the nose and tail, just where it hit and bounced. Surface grinders do not produce curved surfaces but throwing your tools on the floor?
I had put my 2 cents in before. If you got the money go ahead and buy the more expensive ones. But with the prices of old planes going up. And you still have to work on them. It makes more sense to me to buy the new ones and do a little bit of work on them.
I was a solid boatbuilder for a lot of years and I loved my Lie Nielsen planes.
They performed beautifully.
One day I woke up and my ridiculously expensive tools were just gone, never to be seen again.
That was a bad day.
I just got the $15 Jorgensen mini and I'm very pleased, indeed.
Yeah, it needed maybe a couple hours of love to make it prim and proper and it's a little fidgety , but I can easily get professional results with it without any issues.
I can tell you that there is no way in hell will I buy another 60 1/2 Lie Nielsen if Jorgenson has essentially the same thing minus the spa treatment.
I am perfectly capable of giving a tool the spa treatment and I rather enjoy the process.
Jorgensen hit the ball out of the park, IMHO.
Excellent value stuff.
I am sorry to hear about the loss of your tools! I would have been devastated tbh, worked hard to get the tools I have as did you.
And I agree with you the Jorgensen line is awesome, just gotta put in some work!
Thank you for sharing!!
I saw a #4 at Lowes the other day and after watching your video decided to return and buy the Jorgensen. Got it home and started to work on it by cleaning the shipping oil and checking the sole for flatness. It's not dead flat, but close, so minor wet/dry sanding paper work will yield perfection. Put a secondary bevel on the blade and worked the back of the blade to ensure it was perfectly flat. It is. Also, it's 90 degrees dead on, but I did smooth the edges of the sole with 1000 grit. I'll likely repaint it black as I just can't have an orange plane in my collection. So far, I am confident she'll cut great shavings. I'll post results after finishing the sole work.
That's awesome! Lemmie know how you like it and I agree about the orange hahah
Black is the new orange. LOL.
I enjoyed your " keeping it real" review. Good video
Thank you!!
Really enjoyed the series! I just got a Woodriver 5-1/2 and love it. I had to put in a lot of work to a couple of old Stanley - similar to what you had to do with the Jorgensens.
Just bought the smooth plane. The handle is a bit small for my hand, but looking at it, a quick rasping and sanding near the bottom will give room to my pinky finger for a nice fit.
I have my reliable standleys but had to try these. I’ve been super impressed. I’m gonna end up painting them though. Orange just looks wrong in my till.
I agree the orange is ROUGH. Like I get orange is the Jorgensen color but..... my eyes and south both hurt looking at it hahaha
Bought a jorganson low angle block plane and I’m sold. It was flat and square out of the box. All I had to do was flatten the iron back, although it took a lot of honing. The bed was nicely machined and well supporting of the iron. The mouth adjustment was good and tight to the body. Overall, very impressed.
I am very happy to hear that!!! My 60.5 had issues as you saw I may buy another. The 102 also had issues but I bought a 2nd one and it has 0 issues! QC worked in your favor! :D
I recently bought the 60 1/2 jorgenson to replace my old Stanley as my jobsite block plane. I was very surprised at the quality and only had to sharpen the blade and clean up the corners, no shim needed. Now I've got a great block plane that I wont be too sad about if it gets damaged or lost on the job.
That is awesome! Great to hear! And 100% that's a big bonus to this, drop it, throw it, break it, etc. It won't cost you an arm and a leg to replace!
Awesome reviews Jamie. I'm gonna have to check out those Jorgensens. One more thing to consider for guys or gals on a tool buying budget are the vast numbers of old Stanley and Sargent woodworking planes on eBay and in old flea markets. I've picked up everything from a Stanley Squirrel-tail 101 (100-1/2), to a Stanley Bedrock 604, to a half dozen different block planes. The quality of the earlier planes is almost invariably superb and the prices are generally way lower than most of the China-made rubbish at the big box stores. You need to educate yourself about what you're looking for but a bit of homework really pays off. A great place to start is Patrick's Blood and Gore - I know it's a weird name but it's an amazing resource for every plane that Stanley ever made. If you could do a comparison video of some vintage planes to the Lie Neilsons and Jorgensens it'd be a terrific yarn. Thanks again and keep up the great work.
I would love to do a comparison like that! Deff tough tho because Stanley over the types had alot of changes I wouldn't know which to pick lol maybe I'll start collecting different types and do a video that way
@@BatCaveCreations A good starting point would be a comparison of the beefy Stanley Bedrock 604, which ended production in the early 1940's, to the Lie Nielsen No. 4 Smoother. Lie Nielsen borrowed heavily from the Bedrock design, including the distinctive 'flat-top' body shape. Good Luck.
@@wintermutt9090 604 would be a great start! I'll deff need to keep an eye out for one but they are $$ and idk about investing that much for a video haha maybe I'll try to borrow one from a friend :)
I would love you do a video looking at ALL stanley and comparing then to LN. Looking at what they improved and why. Man... it would take a long time to collect all those haha. Maybe just a comparison from experience with the Stanley's I've had before and the LN I have now
I completely agree with this assessment of those planes. YES, they need work...but then THEY WORK.
Having said that, I'm sticking to my Stanley planes and their clones, (Sears, Montgomery Wards, etc.)
Think about what the guys did 500 years ago, and they did just fine work. It's more about the skill of the hands than the precision of the tools. Keep the good stuff coming.
Yes! I was just talking to a guy about this. The old wooden planes didn't have all the bells and whistles we do now. All these new features are not *needed* but make it easier... sometimes haha
Thank you!!
Thanks for the reviews. I am sure it took a great deal of effort on your part. I am an artist and wood crafter and needed a Mini Plane (Squirrel Tail) for occasional use. I didn't want to spend a lot of money for a plane that I would use only once in a while. I found the Jorgensen Mini Plane at Lowes for $15. (About the same price as a Big Mac Value Meal) I could return it to Lowes if I didn't like it. Well, I love it. I'm going to keep mine. I flattened and sharpened the blade by hand. (The blade is too small for my honing guide) I flattened the sole. My plane didn't need a shim like your plane did. My only complaint is the orange color is butt ugly! But, I don't have to look at it very often. 😂
Haha I get you about the orange I want to strip mine and repaint it but haven't yet lol
It's an awesome little plane and the price is amazing imo.
Thank you!!!
I have a few Clifton plane's the first ones before Clifton Changed hands, and they have the two part chip breaker, they are absolutely amazing plane's to use.
I have the 60 1/2 and the 102 (101) and they both work great. The only thing I notice really on both of them is, they were machined but never had that final hand held touch to ease edges and finesse them for final feel. They're great if you want to spend a few minutes to get them user friendly. Oh and honestly, the paint wasn't very well applied. Runs here and there. Only aesthetics but still kind of annoying.
I agree!! A lot of people have been stripping the paint and repainting them black or other colors and having fun like "decorating" them haha I almost started a FB group about it lol
It was Rex Krueger who launched the number 4 over his shoulder, just to see if it was made of ductile cast iron which shouldn't break, it was, and it didn't.
Thank you! I think he got a bad one when they first started making them
You can avoid the paper shims entirely by grinding/honing the blade to the proper angle to get it square to the plane body. Took me about 10 minutes on a diamond stone to get it right. (referring to the small guy)
You are correct, I tried that before on a diff plane but got annoyed by having to keep trying to find that angle and then repeat it haha I may use painters tape or just file the bed down. But lots of diff ways to get it to work! Thank you for sharing!
I have enjoyed using mine so far. I may try a Stanley lever cap on the NO. 4 sized one. The side thrust of the adjuster on the 60 1/2 could possibly be reduced with more of your deburring and I might try to give it more clearance in the slot.
Great point!! Let me know if a stanley lever cap works too, I'm curious!
@@BatCaveCreations
I just tried a 1 7/8 Stanley lever cap. It fit so well I didn't even have to adjust the hold down screw! This one was too rough for my Stanley NO. 5 but I think it just found a new home.
Oooh! Thank you!!! I have some spare caps I'm going to swap mine out too. I didn't even think of that. Thank you!!!!
@@BatCaveCreations
My pleasure! Let me know how you like it.
Finally got to watch this video. Great job on the series!
Good to know about the lifetime warranty on the #4, because I know there will be a lot of destroyed caps.
Getting into the political piece of this, I'm waiting for the LN/Jorgensen lawsuit. These are an obvious clone of a currently produced product. Or did LN license their pattern to Jorgensen?
Ooh thays a good point... the no 4 they wouldn't be able to go after them but.... the 101 and the 60.5... way to similar. Didn't think about that!
Why would they waste their time and money on a law suit? Sure they could be considered a clone, but they are not exactly taking customers from Lie Nielsen. The people buying the Jorgensen planes are not the same people buying Lie Nielsen planes. Sure you may get similar performance out of them, but those that are willing and able to buy Lie Nielsen are going to buy Lie Nielsen. they are two different markets. It would be a different story if Jorgensen was putting in the same fit n finish and selling around the same price point as the Lie Nielsen planes, then they would be in direct competition with them using a clone of their planes.
After saying all of that, their is a good chance that Lie Nielsen did license their designs to Jorgensen specifically to fill that hole in the market at the lower price point as they knew they would not be competing against them for market share. They are to much of a copy of Lie Nielsens designs for a company like Jorgensen to think that they could get away with selling them as a complete retail product through a business like Lowes, it makes the most sense that they are licensed designs.
@@paulmccullough7352 good perspective!
Great review, now do it again w/ some vintage Stanley's in the mix! 🙂
Deff in the works! Currently trying to find a 604!
Always remember, you get what you pay for!
True that! But with a price difference that large some may not have the option to drop so much $ a plane. Pay more = less time/work, pay less = more time/work. That's the balance/scale that goes into alot not just planes haha
I tried the 60 1/2. It went back to Blowes. Then hopefully back to the land of compulsive gambling and chop sticks. Cause making chopsticks was about all mine was ever going to be good for. I'm no master shimmer like yourself however. Also my iron was magnetized so that was a new experience at least.
Deff give it another shot! I did a dedicated video to the 60 1/2 swimming is easy just how to figure out how many pieces of paper you need lol I will be filing the bed down so I don't have to shim in the future. You can also look for old stanley planed on the FB marketplace and ebay. Or even local flee markets. They may need some fiddling but that's to be expected for any block plane south of $100+ ahah
Bridge city tools certainly will out pace both😉
Lol never tried one they are $$$
I can’t say I agree. I like Lie Nielsens steel better.
Never tried Bridge City, only have LN. What do you like better about the LN steel?
@@BatCaveCreations I find it holds an edge longer than Bridge City. I really like the guides on the side of Bridge City Block plane. Harvey Tools does a good job on both the modern design and the manufacturing too. I think Nielsen has better steel.
Thank you!!! Thats perfect!
This set vs. Veritas atarter set???
Oh that would be a good one too!
Was it me, I would buy several of the No. 4s and ignore the others. Why bother with something that you already have a solution for? You can tune the No. 4s to do just about anything you need to do, so why not buy several of them and then mark them according to their assigned purpose?
I have 2 for that reason. I decided to keep the Jorgensen for rough work and the Lie Nielsen for fine work
What grade of sandpaper are you using when you round the side edges
I used 120 on these, you can go higher if you want it shiny. I just wanted to easy the edge
@@BatCaveCreations Thank you! I'm starting my first woodworking class tonight, your videos have been tremendously helpful.
@@kimwilliams1217 I am very happy to hear that!!! Let me know if there is anything specific you would like a video on that I don't have already!
@@BatCaveCreations Ok thanks I definitely will!
It’s not pronounced “LIE Neilson” it’s “Lee”
Orange may be the new black, but I still think it's ugly. ;)
hahaha love it!
Buy the lie nielsen better out of the box. Easy to keep sharp easy to maintain plus much better resale value