This has got to be one of the best videos on this subject. Absolutely no hype, no bravado, just pure common sense and field experience. I have subscribed, keep making these great videos please
@@TomRiverSimpleLiving There is of course the wide subject of 'brush guns'... But I am wondering if when I am using a .308 in dense brush if it is to my advantage to use a 180 grain bullet rather than a 150 or 165 to cut through the brush and keep truer to the original line of sight.
@@jeanmorin3247 I don't think it would help enough to worry about changing? That .308 is going to work great in brush no matter what weight bullet you're using.
Growing up and hunting in New Zealand, my first rifle was a .303Brit followed by .222Rem then finally settled on .270 as a lot of my hunting was mountain tussock country. Add to that I'm old school!! As usual, your video is one of the best on the given subject. Thank you Tom.
The .303 is a great cartridge. Not too popular in the USA for hunting, but very common in Canada. Canadians use it for everything and it is perfectly adequate for moose and even big bears.
Top three 30:06, 308, and 270. Choose one. The 7mm Rem Mag works well if you can ethically shoot at extreme distance. 7mm08, 243, 25:06 choose one if you need light recoil. KISS is always best. These cartridges have been and will be around for a long time. If you pick a new or exotic caliber you may have trouble finding ammunition down the road.
I totally agree with you and ammo is available for all, everywhere except ammo for the .25/06 and 7mm-08 (my go to) is not as widely available as all the others.
Great vid, I done the same thing, 22 years old went and bought a 30-06. So proud of my purchase I went and showed my grandfather. He asked me why I bought such a big cartridge. So I realized I couldn’t shoot it accurately, cuz it made me develop a flinch. Well when you for a 3030 to a 30-06 it a significant difference. So after that I traded it went to a 270. Great caliber but still more than I needed and the flinch was still there. By the way I live and hunt in Maine. So now I use a 308. I can shoot it accurately and it’s perfect for the type of short range hunting that I do. But here I am now at 41, and last hunting season, guess what I grabbed? My old 94 in 3030. I love my 308 rifle, but at 8.8 pounds it’s not fun to carry all day anymore. My 94 is 6.6 pounds it’s a dream to carry all day. No scope to worry about getting snow and rain to fog the glass. I have been hunting since I 10 years old, in 1989. I had the perfect rifle all along and didn’t realize it until I got older and wiser.
This is a great video for experienced and new hunters to see! Well thought out and very good information! I learned my lesson after some testing with different firearms over the past 15 years or so. I though i needed to use my .300 Weatherby at crazy speeds for deer and bear that i was hunting. The farthest i have ever shot a deer with that rifle...... 45 yards. I hunt mostly thick brush on the east coast and have went to a .358 Winchester instead now. The rifle is about 4lbs lighter and the barrel is 4 inches shorter with smaller optics. It is so much lighter to carry and kills deer just as dead as the .300 did. MUCH less damage to the meat now. It took me a few years to realize that i was carrying that 3lb hammer around with me all day.
Thanks, like I said in the video I was speaking from experience for myself. LOL I hope it helps others, but I have to wonder if this is one of those things we all just have to learn from experience?
I fell in love with the 308 a long time ago once a guy finds a caliber he really enjoys shooting that may very well be the best deer hunting caliber I've got several different caliber rifles but I always go back to the 308 it just suits me Great Channel I absolutely enjoyed every minute of it
I agree. I love the .308. 3 of my rifles are .308 Win. The only different one is my WW M4A3 Dissipator and that is 5.56 x 45 mm NATO. But I could hunt anything with a .308 Win 180 grain. Mainly where I live is whitetail and in the western part of my state is mule deer, which is a large blacktail and not quite as big as an elk.
@@308guy8 I live in Texas and the TPWD has drawings you can enter. And one of them is to go to the Cap Rock Canyon WMA near Amarillo in the Panhandle. The hunt description is that you will be shown areas you can post a safe direction to shoot. Be prepared for snow and ice conditions (it's the high desert.) And be prepared to make shots that could average 200 yards, maybe a little more. (It's the high desert and not a lot of trees to hide behind. Mule deer and whitetail deer live long and get big not because they are geniuses but because they bolt and run at the slightest reason. Including humans getting too close for their liking.
The one that works best for me is the 7mm-08 because my father-in-law gave me a single shot with about 300 rounds of ammunition. So, I just went and bought a bolt action 7mm-08. I have enjoyed it.
And that is one outstanding cartridge you went with Burke. Personally I think the 7mm-08 is the most underrated cartridge out there. It's balletically identical to my beloved 7mm Mauser and if you're every curious as to just what the 7mm-08 is truly capable of do a little research on the 7mm Mauser and William Bell's 800 plus elephants he took with it.
Not even finished watching the entire video and it’s already one of the best I’ve seen that truly explains in simple terms the REAL pro/cons between calibers….thanks for doing these they are great and I’ll be showing them to a few friends who really need to see this….keep this stuff coming for us
I used to hunt woods/mountains in NC where shots were 50-125 yards with an old 336 Marlin chambered in .35 Rem.with a 2-3/4 Bushnell Scope Chief scope with a tapered post reticule. For open country, shots out to 400 yards I used a Rem 700 BDl in .300 WIn Mad loaded with 165 grain Nosler ballistic tips at around 3300 fps.. Both systems worked well in their environment.
Sounds similar to how an old friend of mine used to hunt. He used a Browning BAR in 308 in the woods and a 300 mag in open areas. He killed a lot of deer with those rifles.
I hunt in the mountains of NC as well, my Dad used a marlin 336 .35 rem with an old world class tasco for years! killed truck loads with it. what a great caliber! I have one probably about a 1965 model 336 marlin in .35 as well
I just discovered your channel last night, and I wanted to let you know how much I appreciate your realistic view on hunting, rifles and cartridges. Many channels I’ve discovered focus on the latest and greatest, and focus on long long range shooting. Thank you for providing your thoughts and knowledge to the community.
I’ve been saying basically the same thing for decades. Where I live and hunt deer and hogs, it’s mostly thick and swampy. You CAN carry a 300mag with a scope if you want to. You CAN carry whatever you fancy. I have several long range rifles with scopes. I choose a lever gun with Skinner sights , every time. 30-30, 44mag, 45-70, whatever. Light, short quick handling. It’s what works. Most shots never make 50, let alone 200 yds. If I go hunt over a friends pasture land for deer or coyotes or such, I take a scoped rifle of whatever caliber and the levers stay home.
Really great points. Though you neglected the .223, .22-250, 204 Ruger, 222. Many Ranchers that I know in Montana shoot smaller Calibers. I've shot dozens of Deer and antelope with the .223/.556 over the decades. Large Bodied Mule deer bucks to 400 yards. Though I'm typically a 300 yard and in, Hunter. The closer the Happier I am w/ Any cartridge. You said the criteria. It Works for Me. Its Human and very effective. Because the .223 works so well and I can shoot it year around so therefore I am Confident and Competent with my Rifle/Cartridge combination. For Me .223 is my go to Gun. And for Me it's the Best. With that said, Everything you said is Spot on! Best Wishes! M.H.
Now that's interesting because I personally wouldn't use any of the .22 caliber cartridges for deer. Based on a lot of years of killing deer with various cartridges I don't think the .22 calibers would work out well at all for me? I have no doubt I would take some, but I'm just as confident that I would loose a lot of deer. With that said I do believe you when you say it has worked great for you and others where you're at. I'm wondering if it has worked so well for you because you're hunting in wide open places? If that's the case then you have time to watch the deer and pick the shot. Plus you can probably see the general direction of where they're going when they run off and you can probably see them from a distance when they're down? Here in the south we rarely get to pick our shots or have very much time because the vegetation is so think. So we're taking the occasional broad side shot but we also take a lot of raking shots from every angle imaginable through low places and holes in the vegetation. And if the deer run any distance after the shot we need a really good blood trail to follow or it's gong to be tough because they are going to head for the thickest stuff they can find. If that sounds about right to you Mike then it goes back to whatever works for each of us and where we hunt. But that is interesting that a .223 works so well for you. Thanks for sharing that.
Ya. I know those .223 hunting ranchers. They seem to gather at the local country bar, and go out hunting just after it closes. They seem to have a lot of lights on their trucks.
I am a long time deer hunter who lives in North Carolina. This is really a very good video for less experienced hunters. I hunt in very different places at different times. On my family's land I hunt in a more populated area with smaller fields and more dense woods and always hunt that area with a Marlin 336 30/30 rifle and have killed many deer and love it. I am a member of a hunting club that hunts in an area that is much more rural that has very large fields surrounded by woods. At those times I have shots that are upwards of 250 yards or better and I use a Browning 7mm mag. Once when hunting at the hunting club about 15 mins before last shooting light, I had a doe walk out into a cornfield about 30 to 50 yards to my right. It was the 1st part of deer season and I decided to wait see it a buck might ease on out in the field. After 10 minutes or so, a buck never showed and I needed some meat for the freezer so I shot the doe with the 7mm mag and she went straight down. When I started to clean the deer I couldn't hardly find a enter or exit wound and hardly and blood. The bullet had gone so fast through the deer's heart and lung and exited that it never expanded and the wound never hardly bled. The deer pretty much bled out internally. To fast a bullet for such short range,
Very well done. One thing worth mentioning to anyone getting into hunting is what I call the Walmart Test. If you can't buy the cartridge at Walmart (in normal times) then you don't want it for your deer rifle. Sure I love my 300 Savage, or your 257 Roberts. But 308 does the same job and is always on the shelf. Experienced hunters may disregard if they want because they know the drill. Nice woodworking bench and workshop BTW. Subscribed.
Thanks, and that's a great point that I should have included. I'll have to keep that in mind in the future when I mention cartridges that people that don't reload should probably stay away from. And not just because of availability. I mentioned 7mm Mauser quite a few times, but I should have explained that the factory cartridges are under powered.
So far, we’ve found cartridges for the 300 Savage model 99. Got my first deer with it (in 1972) but none since because Dad kept rotating other guns in front of me! A friend put it back into action last year, more than 40 years after its last use. Got him a young buck for meat is is happier with the lever than with the 760 pump in 280 Remington Dad gave me. There’s another caliber seldom found. So I use Dad’s 760 in 30-06. We do use the 180 gr so a little slower. Thanks for mentioning the 300 Savage.
Hey Tom I’m about your age and I’ve heard this argument for years. As a retired Diesel Tech I think your hammer illustration was brilliant! If more hunters used your common sense approach they would have the BEST caliber for the job and kill more deer cleanly. I’m a 30-30 and 45-70 guy in the woods, 6.5 CM for medium, and .270 win. for longer shots. Seems many hunters want to use various calibers for various reasons, but I think the longer you hunt the more common sense kicks in. All the calibers you demonstrated are stone dead killers used at their intended ranges.
North central BC is blessed with lots of public land for hunting as well as ranchers who often give permission if you a) ask, b) be polite, and c) leave gates the way you found them. (A bottle of Rye always helps!) The type of deer hunting encompasses all of those four types; short range, intermediate, long and extreme long range. By dumb luck as opposed to good management, I have a .30-30 carbine, a .243, a .270 and a .300 Win Mag. That said, because BC deer hunting country can vary mile by mile, my usual choice is my .270 with 150 Gr. handloads. That way, I've usually got it all covered. I can think of only a few deer trips where my .30-30 was ideal. Also, in BC we often go out with both a deer tag and a moose tag. Again, the .270 covers both.
It's similar for me. I find myself reaching for my 30-30 less and less. And this really starts getting into versitility and that's one thing about a 270 it's versatile.
Tom, I don't disagree with anything you said. I get asked the same question but much less often than you and this is my answer, if you'll allow me: I have always felt that deer are really not difficult animals to kill. So I say, know where you will be hunting, keep your prospective cartridge above 1000 FPE, and most important, use the round that you can handle, specific to recoil. For me, The answer is 270WIN. Those guidelines have never failed me. And I appreciate being a guest on your channel. Thank you and God bless, my brother.
For me my favorites are 7mm08 and 308 for deer. I have used 300 winmag it worked but i wouldn't recommend it unless you know youre shots are at 300 to 500. But i that works for me, i am looking at a 16 inch 3030 using 150s for 75 and in
I don't know if I could choose between the 7mm-08 and .308 because they are so close with each having their merits, but I think either one are about as good as it gets for a deer cartridge? Unless as you pointed out shots will be at longer ranges. But for the majority of hunting ranges both are about perfect. Except for me it would be the 7mm Mauser, but it's ballistically identical to the 7mm-08. I just appreciate the history of the 7 Mauser plus it's a sentimental favorite. That 30-30 setup sounds nice for the thick stuff. And if you ever run across a 7mm Waters you might want to give that a try? I've never had a rifle chambered in it but I sure have wanted one.
Tom I just discovered you channel and I'm very impressed with your common sense and reasoned advice. You are the first American I saw cycle an Enfield action correctly" ie flick of the wrist vs moving arm and forearm to rack the action" Great info keep up the good work! you and gunblue490 are the best guys I've watched on hunting and gun choices.
Thank you very much for that Alexander. I'm also a fan of gunblue490 and I consider it a very big compliment to even be mentioned in the same sentence as him.
Great video and very informative. Obviously well thought out. I am in my 70s and have been hunting deer for over 50 years here in Canada. When I lived in Manitoba, a 280 Remington model 700 with hand loaded 150 gr nosler ballistic tips were my favourite. I now live on the coast of British Columbia and find the 358 Winchester BLR with 225 gr partitions to be my favourite. Not that a load so powerful is needed for coastal black tails but the possibility of bumping into a grizzly bear makes that powerful round very comforting. Our government geniuses in B.C. have outlawed grizzly hunting in this province and they have become more numerous. Anyway, thanks for the great video and keep them coming.
30 years ago I sporterized a Sedish Mauser in 6.5 Swede. It is still my go to deer rifle out to 300-350 yds which is twice what I need. Depending where I plan to hunt elk, it also serves very well
I have no need for another rifle, but I have been keeping an eye out for something in 6.5x55. It's one of those cartridges that I've always thought a lot of.
Thanks for doing this video. When starting a new shooter, start small 22 lr with a lot of practice...then with the same type of action 30-30, 243 win, 6mm rem. 257 Robert’s
The best video I have seen on this topic. You just got a way with explaining things best. Please do one like this on a .243 rifle with a 23.5 inch barrel. Thank you.
Thank you very much for that. I actually did a video ".243 for Deer Hunting" that you might enjoy? I didn't cover that barrel length specifically but all of the info in it still applies.
I am from South Africa. As I understand you hunt with tags in America so you can only shoot what you target? Here you can shoot just about any of the normal target game. You don't always get shots on what you planned to hunt so your planning should include several species. You will shoot what is available. A blue wildebeest is the most value for money for meat. Impala will most usually be the most prevalent species in the area. This means you should at all times be ready to shoot a 200-250kg bluewildebeest or a 40-70kg Impala. That is why the allrounder rifle is such a major thing in South Africa and that is why the 308 and 30-06 is the most popular hunting rounds by far in South Africa. Would be cool to have someone make a video about the perfect hunting cartridge in South Africa, bearing in mind you don't always target a certain species and should rather be ready for anything to become available.
That is a great point Francois, and honestly something I hadn't thought about. And you are right about the tags. There might be a few states left that don't use tags but probably not many?
A few months ago I was researching the ballistics of the 9.3x57 cartridge and it was stated that the bullet construction wasn't allowing for reliable expansion at the low velocity that it runs at. BUT it it was used as you said under 75 yards then the results that one wants might be achieved. Tradeexcanada has rifles in this calibre but no bullets. So one would pretty much have to special order bullets for that cartridge and handload. 1800 fps is suggested as a minimum velocity for reliable expansion and since that bullet only has a mv of 2000 fps then you kinda need to keep your shots under 75 yards with the 9.3 x57. And if you get the 9.3x62 you get such excessive recoil that you might want to wear a sponge on the stock😂
.300 Savage. The best DEER cartridge ever. Good for any range out to 300 yards. You don't need anything more than that for deer. I have two rifles for this cartridge, a Model 81 Remington and my all time favorite deer rifle, a Model 99 Savage. Nice, light, slim, trim and easy to carry all day. Accurate, and does well with any type bullet. They both have box magazines, so pointed bullets are OK. I have used 165 gr and 180 gr bullets for all my hunting with these.
We have an m99 in 300 Savage. Great gun - was my grandfather’s. Got my first deer with it. The 165 would be good. All we can get factory load now is 150 though.
@@johnsadler8637 Both of my .300s were also my grandfather's. I haven't fired a factory round in either of them for at least 40 years. I use exclusively handloads. I always preferred the 180 gr. bullet, though the 165 gr. BT Spitzer is better for longer range. I never used 150 gr. bullets for hunting, but I do use a 150 gr. cast bullet for practice shooting.
@@johnsadler8637 😕 I started handloading as a small child, stacking fiber and card "wad columns" for my dad for loading shotshells. (no 1 piece wads in those days.) I inherited a bunch of guns from my grandfather and father, some being chambered for what are now obsolete cartridges. I currently load for 5 shotshell gauges and 81 different metallic cartridges, and I can cast at least one bullet for all of them. Some use the same bullets, of course, and some are interchangeable. I use cast .41 magnum pistol bullets for reduced loads in a .405 WCF for example. Handloading gives a lot of options and keeps old guns shooting. I use a simple single stage press from everything. I have 2. An RCBS "Junior" which is nearly 50 years old for small rifle and pistol cartridges and a Lyman "Orange Crusher" for large rifle cases. The largest case I load is the .45 -110 2-7/8" and I needed the large frame opening to cycle those cases. When you load for a LOT of different cartridges, but not large amounts, a single stage press is great! Bullet casting is fading, simply because the lead supply has dried up or gotten expensive. Fortunately I have tons (literally) of lead wheel weights I collected from local service stations for decades. I cast all my bullets from straight wheel weights and use them for practice. I have a lifetime supply of bullets on hand.
Our family used to pass an old model 340 savage 30-30 around to each family as their children got old enough to hunt. My grandfather liked the 30-30 but didn't trust lever actions for young kids starting to hunt after an accident when he was a young man. He thought the 30-30 had about the same recoil as a.243 but was the better deer round. We hunted in timber so even 100 yards was a long shot.
With shots in the timber under 100 yards I'd have to agree with your grandfather on the 30-30 being the best option. That's were the 30-30 shines and the reason it's still here after over 125 years.
I bought one at auction recently. A 340 C. It would be a perfect kids gun for 100 yard shots in the woods. I carry it to protect my dogs from coyotes when we hike on the Natl Forest. No fancy wood. No scope, Just simple and easy to carry.
I just am sitting here and found this video - I started deer hunting about 20 yrs ago in the woods of New England / New York - and I e been fortunate enough to have taken a deer really almost every year - my first rifle , Marlin 336s 30-30 - I think it cost me about $270 - I have .308 - 30-06 - 8mm - 7.62x54R another words lots to choose from - that lever action is what I always reach for .. thanks for such an interesting video! Got you a sub here
I’ll also add when there are ammo shortages you can find that caliber. I noticed in 2020 the popular calibers disappeared first but were the first to get restocked.
I mentioned something similar in a video about picking a rifle right now. I pointed out that the less popular ammo can still be found so someone might want to consider a rifle in a less popular cartridge but they had better make sure they can actually get that ammo because it will be the last to come back.
I used to work at a cabelas. This guy from Kentucky comes in one day, a good 80-100 lbs overweight and swearing he's a SWAT team sniper in kentucky, and he says can't make a 308 work for dear so now he needs a 30-06. My eyes rolled so hard I thought they might roll out of my head. We also had a guy that worked there, 75 years old, 5'5, MAYBE 130 lbs. Swore up and down that a 416 Rigby was minimum for dear. All that to say (as well as this seemed like a good place to tell a couple anecdotes), people that should have a clue, probably don't know their ass from a hole in the ground. Like you said, you can make anything work, and caliber doesn't matter if you can't hit what you're shooting at.
born in Ga. lived in Eastern NC most of my life found for me hunting in Pine forest and swamp land I could not beat a 30.06 for everything from deer to bear..
Sometime in the future I want to do a video just on the 30/06 because it is such a great cartridge. It always gets the job done. At the same time I was watching a poor guy at the rifle range a couple of months ago. He was probably 120 lbs soaking wet and he was getting the snot beat out of him with a light weight 30/06. It was like watching a cartoon every time he pulled the trigger. His head would stay still but his entire body would go back 1ft. So as great as it is there are some people that would be so much better off going with something else. I just think that would be a good topic and something some people like that guy should be aware of.
My top 3 are from the low end 7mm-08 and on the high end the 6.8 Western and the king is of course the .270 Winchester it has win in its name 130 gr bullet still traveling over super sonic out past 700 yards
My 264 win mag will always be my favorite but I’m starting to love my new 6.5-300 weatherby. Never stuck with 270,30-06,30-30 etc. took my first bighorn in New Mexico last season with my 6.5-300 and it went clean through him at 400 yards. Turned his lungs into jelly
"you can put any bullet in any caftridge".....When I was in college and handloading my .30-06, we did not have a gun store for buying bullets in the college town. I told my Dad that I needed some 150 grain bullets. When the package arrived, i opened and it had 150 grain flat nose 30-30 bullets....I was so upset, but you deal with what you have. I loaded those bullets a little slower than I normally would, and my normal rifle range was around 150 to 200 yards. The first deer I killed was shot at 150 yards with a neck shot. The performance of that bullet was superior than the normal 150 spitzer that I normally used. The next 2 were lung shots and both dropped like a rock......so "you can put any bullet in any cartridge"...I used the 150 flat nose for several years and the results were stupendous..........
Excellent video I know it's been a year but I totally agree with personal preference and ideal ranges There are some rifles like Remington that come with 24" in 308 great video enjoyed watching it
From my personal experience with Whitetail 200 yards is a rare shot I have shot 1 at 250 yards down a pipeline right of way but every other deer has been 100 yards and less instead of worrying about having to make super long shots do some scouting and figure out where the deer are feeding and bedding and how they are traveling to and from those areas creeks and drainages are like a interstate highway for deer just set you a tree stand up or make a little brush blind and wait for them to walk by
Yep I'd have to say 30-06. Its tried and true available in lots of model rifles and with available commercial ammo and hand loading supplies you can take anything in the United states from white tail wild hog elk moose even Grizzlies
Good to hear such common sense. Years ago Dominion- a Canadian ammo manufacturer- made a round nosed 215 grain loading for the .303 British. Thanks in no small part to that loading more moose and bear were taken in the Canadian bush country with the .303 British than any other caliber. It was a heavy-for-its'- caliber bullet travelling at a modest velocity.
CIL made great ammunition back in the day with their Dominion, Imperial and Canuck brands. They had polymer tipped bullets, the Sabre Tip, long before any other manufacturer. Their 22 LR ammunition was exceptional - never encountered a rifle that wouldn't shoot it accurately. Had some of their 7.62 NATO military ammunition made in the late 1960s, and it was absolutely top drawer stuff. CIL faded from the scene in the 1980s.
If you're using the same bullet and discussing the the same impact velocity at different ranges, you're discussing ranges, which takes you back to the original 4 groups things were divided into. And those 4 groups are a pretty sensible way to split it even if the ranges are a tad short (even for "best" ranges).
Thanks, I wanted to keep the ranges on the short side for some of the lighter cartridges like the .243. And I know it can reach out further also but I think it's best 200 yards and in? And like I mentioned they can all reach out further if needed but I think it takes a little more knowledge on the hunter's part anytime you start reaching past those ranges.
Tom, Great video as usual. I have a thought for a future video. What is deer hunting today? Let's be honest, most sit in a nice blind watching deer feeding within 100 yards and most much closer than that! As a 58 year old hunter I have never hunted game at a feeder but don't judge those who do and can't say I never will. Shot my first with a 30-30 and shortly thereafter switched to the 270. Never got caught up in antler size rather enjoyed the pleasure of being in the outdoors. I could go on and on about what that means but I get the feeling you know where I am coming from. Just a thought...keep up the good work!
Thanks for that and I know exactly what you mean. I've never hunted over a feeder either. I did hunt over food plots before but I let way more deer walk than I ever shot out of them. When I was hunting private land and able to do the food plots I was also able to manage the heard in there and I turned it into a really nice place to be and not just for deer. All of the critters had a good time there. And I took what I needed buy never anymore than that. And something I know you'll understand, but horns never factored into any of it.
Just found your channel and subscribed! Really liking your videos. Concerning a .308 with a 24" barrel, you get that with a Weatherby Vanguard. But to me if you're getting a 24" barrel just go ahead and get 30-06 or 270. I got a Vanguard in 270 and I love it! I think they are the best rifle for the money these days.
I can't say that I disagree with any of your points. I do have a .308 with a 24" barrel but it's a target rifles. If I were picking a .308 for hunting I would definitely get a 22" barrel. And those Vanguards are certainly good rifles for the money.
30-30 (1890's), 30-06 (1906), 308 Win (1950's), 300 Rem Mag (1960's). When 99% of hunting takes place in 200 yards and under, I don't need a magnum. This is why 30-30, 308 Win, 30-06 have stood the test of time. The difference in a 308 vs 30-06 is only 100fps - 50yds range difference. One was made in 1906 and the other shortened the case in 1950's to fit it in a short action.
This is a truly sensible, down to earth discussion about deer cartridges. The only exception is the bullets. Not all bullets are the same. For years gun writers would say that if you could load a pointed bullet in 30-30 lever guns they would attain sniper rifle capabilities. What nonsense. There were plenty of 30-30 rifles around that were not tube feed. The problem was .308 bullets that would open up at 30-30 velocities. I have heard many times "I reload and the first round I put in the chamber is a pointed bullet". Got to wonder how many deer were hit and lost due to that. NO, not all bullets are "The same". I have a 7.62x39 bolt action I built to hunt deer. Using Hogdons max load and a Remington 150 gr Corlokt bullets, I get the same results as a 30-30 on deer. I am not a fan of hollow points, or HP's with teflon fillers on big game. Many of these new "Super bullets" are really being used on the wrong cartridge. I had problems with smaller diameter bullets that would not open up well under 100 yards. Know your bullets.
I couldn't agree more about the bullets but I was trying to keep this video simple and I didn't want to get into all of that. And I actually did a video on just the bullets and got into how some bullets are tougher than others and so on, but that was one of my first videos and I did a poor job explaining it and took way to long doing it. I'll have to redo that video one day. And another great example of what you're talking about with the 30-30 is the 7mm bullets. At first all of the 7mm bullets where made for the 7mm Mauser. Those bullets were too soft for the 7mm mag when it came out so they made the bullets tougher. Well now most of the bullets are to tough to get good performance at the slower velocities of the 7mm Mauser and 7mm-08 for that matter. So bullets selection is a big deal for both of those cartridges.
@@TomRiverSimpleLiving Good pick for an example. I went through that with the 7-30 Waters. Hornady dropped their 140 grain F/P and I am not a fan of the 120 gr. I can use pointed bullets, but not attain the pressure because of the weak case. The barrel is on a 99 Savage and IT would easily handle more pressure. The ironic part is I re-barreled a .303 Savage because I could not get ammo anymore. Now I can get .303 ammo.
Great discussion but IMO 6.5 Grendel trumps the 308 Win after 400m, but before that its neck and neck. But it's a short action, can fit into an AR action, light recoil.
I have a friend that loves the 6.5 Grendel but I have yet to try it for deer. But for me personally the 6.5 Grendel is starting to get a little on the light side for deer. I have no doubt it will get the job done but if given an option I would go with just a little more powder in a 6.5 Creedmoor first. But we all have our own preferences and thankfully we have a lot of different options to choose from.
I have over a dozen calibers for deer hunting and the absolute best deer rifle I think has got to be a .30 m1 carbine. Because any of the calibers I have will work just fine, deer are really not hard to kill at all. The thing is, no one ever remembers the guy who killed a deer with a 270 or a 308 or a 7mm Magnum etc, etc. But anyone who can successfully hunt and kill a deer with such a lousy rifle as an M1 carbine (especially at long range) is a hero and should be honored around camp fires for the duration of his lifetime.
Where knowledge meets experience, you get this thing called "Wisdom"...and this video is just chock full of wisdom! The only fly in the ointment is that bullet and propellent technology have changed the game, in so many ways. One excellent example is the combination of FTX bullets and LVR powder, in the 30/30 Winchester. It is possible to drive bullets considerably faster, and they retain that velocity quite a bit farther, plus those bullets deliver accuracy and terminal performance that is dramatically improved over the old flat-nosed jobs. Another example is the well-designed hunting bullets that also happen to have a very ballistic coefficient. These bullets change the paradigm, because of how they retain velocity, and therefore energy, plus they are engineered to deliver good to excellent terminal performance. In combination, this makes rounds like the 6.5 Creedmoor into something more than the wisdom given in this video would suggest it should be. The last thing I'll mention is this: The hammer analogy is a good one, but carrying a rifle chambered in a medium or long-range cartridge is not like driving in a finish nail with a 3lb sledge-hammer. You aren't compromising what you're trying to do in any way, if you carry a 30-'06 or 270 Winchester into a hunting location where 100 yards might be the longest shot you get. It really boils down to the specific bullet you've chosen for you hunting...not the "caliber". Anything from 24 to 35 is perfectly suitable for hunting deer, provided you've chosen a bullet that will get the job done, and you are reasonable in the shots you take.
I had to smile reading that Jason because you remind me of myself 20 years ago. But I have since learned that nothing has really changed in all this time for firearms and hunting. At least not since the early 20th century. I was reading "The Hunting Rifle" by Jack O'Connor and it amazed me at how similar the things he wrote about then are to what I'm saying now. He talked about bullet placement either behind the shoulder or in the shoulder just like I've spoken about. He favored behind the shoulder with his beloved .270 in 130gr for deer but he also stressed using bullets that would expand as rapidly as possible and his favorite bullet was a hollow point. Then I read "The Modern Gunsmith" written by James V. Howe in 1934. Again it's amazing at how little things have changed. I will say that laser range finders have made a difference and you can reliably reach out much further with a slower cartridge like the 6.5 Creedmoor than once was possible but only if you have time to use that laser range finder and make the necessary elevations adjustments. And in my area you don't normally have the time. And without the laser range finder and a lot of misunderstandings about rifle cartridges for hunting the 6.5 Creedmoor wouldn't be any more popular than the 6.5 Swede was. Even though the 6.5 Swede was and still is an outstanding hunting cartridge just like the 6.5 Creedmoor. It's just neither are very good long range cartridges. In the past 100 years physics hasn't changed a bit. We understand it a little better now but what they knew then still hasn't changed a bit. And in many ways they knew more then than we know now, at least with mechanics. And I suspect as you get older you'll come to realize the same thing?
@@TomRiverSimpleLiving - I suspect we aren't more than a few years apart. I started loading my own rifle ammunition when I was 17 years old, so 33 years ago. I hung around with some dedicated reloaders and competitive shooters who dispelled a lot of myths that were prevalent in those days. I have harvested game with virtually of the popular American calibers and currently reload for more than 20 different cartridges, including three wildcats, one of which I designed myself and is probably the only one of its kind. You say it's amazing how little things have changed. How many factor rifles were truly capable of MOA accuracy, back then, without handloading? How many bullets had a BC well over .500? How many pointy bullets were safe to use a tubular magazine? How many different powders were there to choose from? I say things have changed a great deal, in many small ways. You undoubtedly make use of many of those changes. Is the H4831 you use in your 270 Winchester loads the old powder or the short cut grains which meter so much better? What you attempted to do in this video was a very challenging thing, and you succeeded, for the most part. However, the answers you presented were painted with a very broad brush. It's not that any of the conclusions you reached were incorrect, but you left out a lot of information that simply doesn't agree with those conclusions. It's easy enough to say that there have been very few meaningful improvements in centerfire rifle cartridge design since the 8mm Lebel, but it's more accurate to say that we are fortunate enough to have seen a great many small, incremental improvements. I am as nostalgic as anyone, and I still read a bit of O'Connor every year, but I don't have my head in the sand where advancement is concerned.
I use 7rem mag I’ve killed all my deer with it. I know if I aim to much in front I’ll blow out the shoulder, but it just puts them down so easily. And it’s the gun my dad gave me.
It did sound like I was being a little hard on the mags. I just didn't want anyone to think they had to have that much gun for deer at closes ranges. But now if someone chooses to hunt with one and that's just what they like then there is nothing wrong with that. And the 7mag in particular is an outstanding deer cartridge that has taken an awful lot of deer over the years. And for me personally, if I were to setup an extreme long range deer rifle the 7mag would probably be my first choice? A 7mag will definately get the job done!
There are so many great cartridges including the .308 that it's hard for me to decide on just one. I have to admit though, I have taken an awful lot of deer with a .308 and it has never let me down.
Thanks for the Great information... I've always said. By the gun that you can handle and shoot the best. And for yr location on where you hunt. Thank You for your show and all the great advice.
I wholeheartedly agree, the ranges should not be exceeded. Even the magnums that are energy - wise capable of 800 - 900 yard elk shots. Personally I make sure that I hit consistently a target at 700 meters( 770 yards), while hunting use it within 500 meters ( 550 yards) UNDER NEAR IDEAL CONDITIONS, low wind, no precipitation, no tangible level differential and preferably broadside. Obviously the bullet should be hunting construction.
And your approach is something that a lot of young people can learn from. When you pull the trigger you know you're going to make the shot and you aren't guessing. And that's because you put in the work ahead of time and you know your limits. Thanks for sharing that.
Tom, what are your thoughts on 130 grain Nosler partition bullet from a 270 Winchester for deer hunting. Shots where I hunt can be from 50 to 300 yards.
I think that would be an excellent choice. In my opinion the Nosler partition is probably the best all around bullet ever made for all game? I will say that I tend to not use Partitions just because they are expensive and I do a lot of shooting with a lot of different rifles and it would get expensive for me to feed all of those rifles with Partitions. And I know that a premium bullet like a Partition isn't needed for deer. Deer are small and light framed compared to something like an elk and the old cup and core bullets work just fine for deer. But if I were going to only use one rifle no matter what caliber I would probably.load it with Partitions? And for the .270 I would probably go with the 130gr. but if they ended up being a little to destructive I would try the 140gr Partitions just to slow them down a little but. Hope that helps.
I have a 24 inch heavy barrel 308 and use 22s on my 06s which seem to not loose the full 25 fps per inch. Both my Browning 06s shoot 2670 there abouts with 22 inches.
I love the 30-30 lever action. Who doesn't? All shooters love them but as a deer gun .... no ..... And I'll tell you why. Well, I May take any of those short-range guns if I have a set tree stand with a max known shooting distance of 100 yards. But that is quite situational and may fit an elderly or handicapped shooter who may be fixed to that location. But even in the north woods shots present themselves at ranges of over 400+++ plus yards all the time. Most people will sit on the edge of a clear cut, a reed swamp, a cut bean, or cornfield. A logging road. A power line cut, a fire break or burn. For deer hunters that can only buy one gun: pick an intermediate caliber from the video in a bolt action rifle. Spend at least as much on the scope as you did the rifle. With a low end of at max 3 power top end of at least 9 and a minimum 40 mm objective. And you will not, sorry CAN NOT go wrong..........
The hunting conditions here sound like they're about identical to yours, and for that reason most people do opt for intermediate or long range cartridges. But there are an awful lot of places were a 30-30 still shines. And I've started hunting public land more and more in the past few years and I've found myself reaching for the old 30-30 more and more. So it still has it's place for deer hunting but I have to agree about the intermediate range cartridges being more versatile.
This has got to be one of the best videos on this subject. Absolutely no hype, no bravado, just pure common sense and field experience. I have subscribed, keep making these great videos please
Glad you enjoyed it!
This is a straight, leveled, no-nonsense overview that beats all I have seen on the subject.
Thanks!
@@TomRiverSimpleLiving There is of course the wide subject of 'brush guns'... But I am wondering if when I am using a .308 in dense brush if it is to my advantage to use a 180 grain bullet rather than a 150 or 165 to cut through the brush and keep truer to the original line of sight.
@@jeanmorin3247 I don't think it would help enough to worry about changing? That .308 is going to work great in brush no matter what weight bullet you're using.
I have other calibers up and down the chart, but I just love the 7mm-08!
The 7mm-08 is the best whitetail cartridge ever!!!! My go to!!!!
The best video on this topic EVER. Thanks for making it.
I'm glad you liked it and I appreciate the feedback.
Growing up and hunting in New Zealand, my first rifle was a .303Brit followed by .222Rem then finally settled on .270 as a lot of my hunting was mountain tussock country. Add to that I'm old school!! As usual, your video is one of the best on the given subject. Thank you Tom.
And thank you Sam for your comments. I appreciate that.
The .303 is a great cartridge. Not too popular in the USA for hunting, but very common in Canada. Canadians use it for everything and it is perfectly adequate for moose and even big bears.
Top three 30:06, 308, and 270. Choose one. The 7mm Rem Mag works well if you can ethically shoot at extreme distance. 7mm08, 243, 25:06 choose one if you need light recoil. KISS is always best. These cartridges have been and will be around for a long time. If you pick a new or exotic caliber you may have trouble finding ammunition down the road.
Agreed
I totally agree with you and ammo is available for all, everywhere except ammo for the .25/06 and 7mm-08 (my go to) is not as widely available as all the others.
Great vid, I done the same thing, 22 years old went and bought a 30-06. So proud of my purchase I went and showed my grandfather. He asked me why I bought such a big cartridge. So I realized I couldn’t shoot it accurately, cuz it made me develop a flinch. Well when you for a 3030 to a 30-06 it a significant difference. So after that I traded it went to a 270. Great caliber but still more than I needed and the flinch was still there. By the way I live and hunt in Maine. So now I use a 308. I can shoot it accurately and it’s perfect for the type of short range hunting that I do. But here I am now at 41, and last hunting season, guess what I grabbed? My old 94 in 3030. I love my 308 rifle, but at 8.8 pounds it’s not fun to carry all day anymore. My 94 is 6.6 pounds it’s a dream to carry all day. No scope to worry about getting snow and rain to fog the glass. I have been hunting since I 10 years old, in 1989. I had the perfect rifle all along and didn’t realize it until I got older and wiser.
Strange how we sometimes just have to go out and try everything only to end up right back where started.
@@TomRiverSimpleLiving history teaches us that men will behave wisely once they've exhausted all other alternatives
@@ianscottlewis Well said
So that's why 30-30 is probably the most popular cartridge after a century or so.
No one ever talks about caliber choice for distance. Different take on the subject. I really enjoyed this video. Thank you for posting.
And thank you for your comment.
I have watched hundreds of UA-cam videos on this subject. This is the best video made on this subject by far . Thank you sir for making this video.😀
Thank you, I appreciate that.
This is a great video for experienced and new hunters to see! Well thought out and very good information! I learned my lesson after some testing with different firearms over the past 15 years or so. I though i needed to use my .300 Weatherby at crazy speeds for deer and bear that i was hunting. The farthest i have ever shot a deer with that rifle...... 45 yards. I hunt mostly thick brush on the east coast and have went to a .358 Winchester instead now. The rifle is about 4lbs lighter and the barrel is 4 inches shorter with smaller optics. It is so much lighter to carry and kills deer just as dead as the .300 did. MUCH less damage to the meat now. It took me a few years to realize that i was carrying that 3lb hammer around with me all day.
Thanks, like I said in the video I was speaking from experience for myself. LOL I hope it helps others, but I have to wonder if this is one of those things we all just have to learn from experience?
I fell in love with the 308 a long time ago once a guy finds a caliber he really enjoys shooting that may very well be the best deer hunting caliber I've got several different caliber rifles but I always go back to the 308 it just suits me Great Channel I absolutely enjoyed every minute of it
Thank you, and that's sort of how I feel about the .303 British which is very similar to the .308.
I agree. I love the .308. 3 of my rifles are .308 Win. The only different one is my WW M4A3 Dissipator and that is 5.56 x 45 mm NATO.
But I could hunt anything with a .308 Win 180 grain. Mainly where I live is whitetail and in the western part of my state is mule deer, which is a large blacktail and not quite as big as an elk.
@@ronws2007 man that sounds like a lot fun I've never got to hunt a mule deer
@@308guy8 I live in Texas and the TPWD has drawings you can enter. And one of them is to go to the Cap Rock Canyon WMA near Amarillo in the Panhandle. The hunt description is that you will be shown areas you can post a safe direction to shoot. Be prepared for snow and ice conditions (it's the high desert.) And be prepared to make shots that could average 200 yards, maybe a little more. (It's the high desert and not a lot of trees to hide behind. Mule deer and whitetail deer live long and get big not because they are geniuses but because they bolt and run at the slightest reason. Including humans getting too close for their liking.
@@ronws2007 wow that sounds fun I bet they are big I live in virginia 200yds is a fairly long shot here
And hand loading does a lot too, especially with the versatile .30-06 Springfield. Great video : )
Yes it does! And I'm glad you liked the video.
The best video I’ve ever seen and I’ve grown up hunting and guns but never heard it explained so clearly
The one that works best for me is the 7mm-08 because my father-in-law gave me a single shot with about 300 rounds of ammunition. So, I just went and bought a bolt action 7mm-08. I have enjoyed it.
And that is one outstanding cartridge you went with Burke. Personally I think the 7mm-08 is the most underrated cartridge out there. It's balletically identical to my beloved 7mm Mauser and if you're every curious as to just what the 7mm-08 is truly capable of do a little research on the 7mm Mauser and William Bell's 800 plus elephants he took with it.
Not even finished watching the entire video and it’s already one of the best I’ve seen that truly explains in simple terms the REAL pro/cons between calibers….thanks for doing these they are great and I’ll be showing them to a few friends who really need to see this….keep this stuff coming for us
I haven't heard so much common sense for years. More power to you Tom.
Thanks John I appreciate that.
I used to hunt woods/mountains in NC where shots were 50-125 yards with an old 336 Marlin chambered in .35 Rem.with a 2-3/4 Bushnell Scope Chief scope with a tapered post reticule. For open country, shots out to 400 yards I used a Rem 700 BDl in .300 WIn Mad loaded with 165 grain Nosler ballistic tips at around 3300 fps.. Both systems worked well in their environment.
Sounds similar to how an old friend of mine used to hunt. He used a Browning BAR in 308 in the woods and a 300 mag in open areas. He killed a lot of deer with those rifles.
I hunt in the mountains of NC as well, my Dad used a marlin 336 .35 rem with an old world class tasco for years! killed truck loads with it. what a great caliber! I have one probably about a 1965 model 336 marlin in .35 as well
Yup....336 in 35 Remington here in the Michigan woods. Luv it.
imho, i always come back to the 7x57 or 7-08. 30 cals sure work, but you can get into meat shredding as early as the 30-06.
That's about how I look at it these days. Plus those 7mm's are a lot easier on the shoulder.
This guy is the Mr Rogers of the gun world. Best explanation i have ever heard. Every potential hunter should watch this before they buy a rifle.
Thanks!
Absolutely one of the best, non-bias, well-explained videos on Caliber distinction on YT. Great job Tom!
Thanks Robert, I really appreciate that.
I just discovered your channel last night, and I wanted to let you know how much I appreciate your realistic view on hunting, rifles and cartridges. Many channels I’ve discovered focus on the latest and greatest, and focus on long long range shooting. Thank you for providing your thoughts and knowledge to the community.
I’ve been saying basically the same thing for decades. Where I live and hunt deer and hogs, it’s mostly thick and swampy. You CAN carry a 300mag with a scope if you want to. You CAN carry whatever you fancy. I have several long range rifles with scopes.
I choose a lever gun with Skinner sights , every time. 30-30, 44mag, 45-70, whatever. Light, short quick handling. It’s what works.
Most shots never make 50, let alone 200 yds.
If I go hunt over a friends pasture land for deer or coyotes or such, I take a scoped rifle of whatever caliber and the levers stay home.
Really great points.
Though you neglected the .223, .22-250,
204 Ruger, 222. Many Ranchers that I know in Montana shoot smaller Calibers.
I've shot dozens of Deer and antelope with the .223/.556 over the decades. Large Bodied Mule deer bucks to 400 yards. Though I'm typically a 300 yard and in, Hunter. The closer the Happier I am w/ Any cartridge.
You said the criteria. It Works for Me. Its Human and very effective. Because the
.223 works so well and I can shoot it year around so therefore I am Confident and Competent with my Rifle/Cartridge combination. For Me .223 is my go to Gun. And for Me it's the Best.
With that said, Everything you said is Spot on!
Best Wishes! M.H.
Now that's interesting because I personally wouldn't use any of the .22 caliber cartridges for deer. Based on a lot of years of killing deer with various cartridges I don't think the .22 calibers would work out well at all for me? I have no doubt I would take some, but I'm just as confident that I would loose a lot of deer. With that said I do believe you when you say it has worked great for you and others where you're at. I'm wondering if it has worked so well for you because you're hunting in wide open places? If that's the case then you have time to watch the deer and pick the shot. Plus you can probably see the general direction of where they're going when they run off and you can probably see them from a distance when they're down? Here in the south we rarely get to pick our shots or have very much time because the vegetation is so think. So we're taking the occasional broad side shot but we also take a lot of raking shots from every angle imaginable through low places and holes in the vegetation. And if the deer run any distance after the shot we need a really good blood trail to follow or it's gong to be tough because they are going to head for the thickest stuff they can find. If that sounds about right to you Mike then it goes back to whatever works for each of us and where we hunt. But that is interesting that a .223 works so well for you. Thanks for sharing that.
Ya. I know those .223 hunting ranchers. They seem to gather at the local country bar, and go out hunting just after it closes. They seem to have a lot of lights on their trucks.
I am a long time deer hunter who lives in North Carolina. This is really a very good video for less experienced hunters. I hunt in very different places at different times. On my family's land I hunt in a more populated area with smaller fields and more dense woods and always hunt that area with a Marlin 336 30/30 rifle and have killed many deer and love it. I am a member of a hunting club that hunts in an area that is much more rural that has very large fields surrounded by woods. At those times I have shots that are upwards of 250 yards or better and I use a Browning 7mm mag. Once when hunting at the hunting club about 15 mins before last shooting light, I had a doe walk out into a cornfield about 30 to 50 yards to my right. It was the 1st part of deer season and I decided to wait see it a buck might ease on out in the field. After 10 minutes or so, a buck never showed and I needed some meat for the freezer so I shot the doe with the 7mm mag and she went straight down. When I started to clean the deer I couldn't hardly find a enter or exit wound and hardly and blood. The bullet had gone so fast through the deer's heart and lung and exited that it never expanded and the wound never hardly bled. The deer pretty much bled out internally. To fast a bullet for such short range,
Finally! Your definition of the distances was spot on! Fantastic!
Thanks!
Weatherby vanguard makes a 24 inch barrel for a 308. Awesome vid. Completely agree
Very well done. One thing worth mentioning to anyone getting into hunting is what I call the Walmart Test. If you can't buy the cartridge at Walmart (in normal times) then you don't want it for your deer rifle. Sure I love my 300 Savage, or your 257 Roberts. But 308 does the same job and is always on the shelf.
Experienced hunters may disregard if they want because they know the drill.
Nice woodworking bench and workshop BTW.
Subscribed.
Thanks, and that's a great point that I should have included. I'll have to keep that in mind in the future when I mention cartridges that people that don't reload should probably stay away from. And not just because of availability. I mentioned 7mm Mauser quite a few times, but I should have explained that the factory cartridges are under powered.
So far, we’ve found cartridges for the 300 Savage model 99. Got my first deer with it (in 1972) but none since because Dad kept rotating other guns in front of me! A friend put it back into action last year, more than 40 years after its last use. Got him a young buck for meat is is happier with the lever than with the 760 pump in 280 Remington Dad gave me. There’s another caliber seldom found. So I use Dad’s 760 in 30-06. We do use the 180 gr so a little slower. Thanks for mentioning the 300 Savage.
Hey Tom I’m about your age and I’ve heard this argument for years. As a retired Diesel Tech I think your hammer illustration was brilliant! If more hunters used your common sense approach they would have the BEST caliber for the job and kill more deer cleanly.
I’m a 30-30 and 45-70 guy in the woods, 6.5 CM for medium, and .270 win. for longer shots. Seems many hunters want to use various calibers for various reasons, but I think the longer you hunt the more common sense kicks in. All the calibers you demonstrated are stone dead killers used at their intended ranges.
Bravo my friend. Excellent video - so thoughtful, calm and true.
Why thank you very much for that. And i have to say that I have thoroughly enjoyed and appreciated your videos.
Man... if I could have gotten this advice 45 years ago I might have talked myself into 3 more rifles instead of just my 30 06. Good video.
Just 3? LOL
Great video! Right on the point describing THE BEST CALIBER FOR DEER HUNTING related to the target range.
Thanks
North central BC is blessed with lots of public land for hunting as well as ranchers who often give permission if you a) ask, b) be polite, and c) leave gates the way you found them. (A bottle of Rye always helps!)
The type of deer hunting encompasses all of those four types; short range, intermediate, long and extreme long range. By dumb luck as opposed to good management, I have a .30-30 carbine, a .243, a .270 and a .300 Win Mag. That said, because BC deer hunting country can vary mile by mile, my usual choice is my .270 with 150 Gr. handloads. That way, I've usually got it all covered. I can think of only a few deer trips where my .30-30 was ideal.
Also, in BC we often go out with both a deer tag and a moose tag. Again, the .270 covers both.
It's similar for me. I find myself reaching for my 30-30 less and less. And this really starts getting into versitility and that's one thing about a 270 it's versatile.
Tom, I don't disagree with anything you said. I get asked the same question but much less often than you and this is my answer, if you'll allow me: I have always felt that deer are really not difficult animals to kill. So I say, know where you will be hunting, keep your prospective cartridge above 1000 FPE, and most important, use the round that you can handle, specific to recoil. For me, The answer is 270WIN. Those guidelines have never failed me. And I appreciate being a guest on your channel. Thank you and God bless, my brother.
For me my favorites are 7mm08 and 308 for deer. I have used 300 winmag it worked but i wouldn't recommend it unless you know youre shots are at 300 to 500. But i that works for me, i am looking at a 16 inch 3030 using 150s for 75 and in
I don't know if I could choose between the 7mm-08 and .308 because they are so close with each having their merits, but I think either one are about as good as it gets for a deer cartridge? Unless as you pointed out shots will be at longer ranges. But for the majority of hunting ranges both are about perfect. Except for me it would be the 7mm Mauser, but it's ballistically identical to the 7mm-08. I just appreciate the history of the 7 Mauser plus it's a sentimental favorite.
That 30-30 setup sounds nice for the thick stuff. And if you ever run across a 7mm Waters you might want to give that a try? I've never had a rifle chambered in it but I sure have wanted one.
Tom I just discovered you channel and I'm very impressed with your common sense and reasoned advice. You are the first American I saw cycle an Enfield action correctly" ie flick of the wrist vs moving arm and forearm to rack the action"
Great info keep up the good work! you and gunblue490 are the best guys I've watched on hunting and gun choices.
Thank you very much for that Alexander. I'm also a fan of gunblue490 and I consider it a very big compliment to even be mentioned in the same sentence as him.
Great video and very informative. Obviously well thought out. I am in my 70s and have been hunting deer for over 50 years here in Canada. When I lived in Manitoba, a 280 Remington model 700 with hand loaded 150 gr nosler ballistic tips were my favourite. I now live on the coast of British Columbia and find the 358 Winchester BLR with 225 gr partitions to be my favourite. Not that a load so powerful is needed for coastal black tails but the possibility of bumping into a grizzly bear makes that powerful round very comforting. Our government geniuses in B.C. have outlawed grizzly hunting in this province and they have become more numerous.
Anyway, thanks for the great video and keep them coming.
Thanks Mike, I'm glad you enjoyed it. I can't fault you a bit for wanting a little extra with those big bears roaming the woods!
I'm in New Mexico USA my family goes
(25-06)-and(300wm) my avreg 300 yard's
Out big open space for Mule Deer 🦌
New 6.8 Weston yes
I really like the 25-06 and I hope to try one on our whitetail deer one day.
30 years ago I sporterized a Sedish Mauser in 6.5 Swede. It is still my go to deer rifle out to 300-350 yds which is twice what I need. Depending where I plan to hunt elk, it also serves very well
I have no need for another rifle, but I have been keeping an eye out for something in 6.5x55. It's one of those cartridges that I've always thought a lot of.
@@TomRiverSimpleLiving me too
My favorite 6.5 heavy hitter is 156 gr norma oryx. Load those in 6.5 creed, i know in the 6.5 swede it will be great on elk size game
Thanks for doing this video.
When starting a new shooter, start small 22 lr with a lot of practice...then with the same type of action 30-30, 243 win, 6mm rem. 257 Robert’s
It definitely helps to work your way up.
The best video I have seen on this topic. You just got a way with explaining things best.
Please do one like this on a .243 rifle with a 23.5 inch barrel.
Thank you.
Thank you very much for that. I actually did a video ".243 for Deer Hunting" that you might enjoy? I didn't cover that barrel length specifically but all of the info in it still applies.
I am from South Africa. As I understand you hunt with tags in America so you can only shoot what you target? Here you can shoot just about any of the normal target game. You don't always get shots on what you planned to hunt so your planning should include several species. You will shoot what is available. A blue wildebeest is the most value for money for meat. Impala will most usually be the most prevalent species in the area. This means you should at all times be ready to shoot a 200-250kg bluewildebeest or a 40-70kg Impala. That is why the allrounder rifle is such a major thing in South Africa and that is why the 308 and 30-06 is the most popular hunting rounds by far in South Africa. Would be cool to have someone make a video about the perfect hunting cartridge in South Africa, bearing in mind you don't always target a certain species and should rather be ready for anything to become available.
That is a great point Francois, and honestly something I hadn't thought about. And you are right about the tags. There might be a few states left that don't use tags but probably not many?
Thanks for explaining how to optimize loads for the types of hunting we do.
A few months ago I was researching the ballistics of the 9.3x57 cartridge and it was stated that the bullet construction wasn't allowing for reliable expansion at the low velocity that it runs at. BUT it it was used as you said under 75 yards then the results that one wants might be achieved. Tradeexcanada has rifles in this calibre but no bullets. So one would pretty much have to special order bullets for that cartridge and handload. 1800 fps is suggested as a minimum velocity for reliable expansion and since that bullet only has a mv of 2000 fps then you kinda need to keep your shots under 75 yards with the 9.3 x57. And if you get the 9.3x62 you get such excessive recoil that you might want to wear a sponge on the stock😂
.300 Savage. The best DEER cartridge ever. Good for any range out to 300 yards. You don't need anything more than that for deer.
I have two rifles for this cartridge, a Model 81 Remington and my all time favorite deer rifle, a Model 99 Savage. Nice, light, slim, trim and easy to carry all day. Accurate, and does well with any type bullet. They both have box magazines, so pointed bullets are OK. I have used 165 gr and 180 gr bullets for all my hunting with these.
That model 99 in 300 Savage is a great combination. If I ever run across one at a decent price it will be going home with me.
We have an m99 in 300 Savage. Great gun - was my grandfather’s. Got my first deer with it. The 165 would be good. All we can get factory load now is 150 though.
@@johnsadler8637 Both of my .300s were also my grandfather's. I haven't fired a factory round in either of them for at least 40 years. I use exclusively handloads. I always preferred the 180 gr. bullet, though the 165 gr. BT Spitzer is better for longer range. I never used 150 gr. bullets for hunting, but I do use a 150 gr. cast bullet for practice shooting.
@@garyK.45ACP We always wanted to get into reloading but never got past the want-to stage. So we’re stuck with factory stuff.
@@johnsadler8637 😕 I started handloading as a small child, stacking fiber and card "wad columns" for my dad for loading shotshells. (no 1 piece wads in those days.) I inherited a bunch of guns from my grandfather and father, some being chambered for what are now obsolete cartridges. I currently load for 5 shotshell gauges and 81 different metallic cartridges, and I can cast at least one bullet for all of them. Some use the same bullets, of course, and some are interchangeable. I use cast .41 magnum pistol bullets for reduced loads in a .405 WCF for example. Handloading gives a lot of options and keeps old guns shooting. I use a simple single stage press from everything. I have 2. An RCBS "Junior" which is nearly 50 years old for small rifle and pistol cartridges and a Lyman "Orange Crusher" for large rifle cases. The largest case I load is the .45 -110 2-7/8" and I needed the large frame opening to cycle those cases. When you load for a LOT of different cartridges, but not large amounts, a single stage press is great!
Bullet casting is fading, simply because the lead supply has dried up or gotten expensive. Fortunately I have tons (literally) of lead wheel weights I collected from local service stations for decades. I cast all my bullets from straight wheel weights and use them for practice. I have a lifetime supply of bullets on hand.
Our family used to pass an old model 340 savage 30-30 around to each family as their children got old enough to hunt. My grandfather liked the 30-30 but didn't trust lever actions for young kids starting to hunt after an accident when he was a young man. He thought the 30-30 had about the same recoil as a.243 but was the better deer round. We hunted in timber so even 100 yards was a long shot.
With shots in the timber under 100 yards I'd have to agree with your grandfather on the 30-30 being the best option. That's were the 30-30 shines and the reason it's still here after over 125 years.
I bought one at auction recently. A 340 C. It would be a perfect kids gun for 100 yard shots in the woods. I carry it to protect my dogs from coyotes when we hike on the Natl Forest. No fancy wood. No scope, Just simple and easy to carry.
I just am sitting here and found this video - I started deer hunting about 20 yrs ago in the woods of New England / New York - and I e been fortunate enough to have taken a deer really almost every year - my first rifle , Marlin 336s 30-30 - I think it cost me about $270 - I have .308 - 30-06 - 8mm - 7.62x54R another words lots to choose from - that lever action is what I always reach for .. thanks for such an interesting video! Got you a sub here
I'm glad you enjoyed it Max, and isn't funny how those old rifles just on quietly getting the job done.
I’ll also add when there are ammo shortages you can find that caliber. I noticed in 2020 the popular calibers disappeared first but were the first to get restocked.
I mentioned something similar in a video about picking a rifle right now. I pointed out that the less popular ammo can still be found so someone might want to consider a rifle in a less popular cartridge but they had better make sure they can actually get that ammo because it will be the last to come back.
I used to work at a cabelas. This guy from Kentucky comes in one day, a good 80-100 lbs overweight and swearing he's a SWAT team sniper in kentucky, and he says can't make a 308 work for dear so now he needs a 30-06. My eyes rolled so hard I thought they might roll out of my head.
We also had a guy that worked there, 75 years old, 5'5, MAYBE 130 lbs. Swore up and down that a 416 Rigby was minimum for dear.
All that to say (as well as this seemed like a good place to tell a couple anecdotes), people that should have a clue, probably don't know their ass from a hole in the ground. Like you said, you can make anything work, and caliber doesn't matter if you can't hit what you're shooting at.
I can only imagine how many times you've had to shake your head working behind a gun counter!
Honestly, this is probably the best video on the subject! Very easy to understand!
Thanks, I appreciate that.
I use 303 british, 270 , 30.06 . Or else 7.6x39 from the sks. For deer. My little bro uses 243 or 7mm mag for bigger game.
born in Ga. lived in Eastern NC most of my life found for me hunting in Pine forest and swamp land I could not beat a 30.06 for everything from deer to bear..
Sometime in the future I want to do a video just on the 30/06 because it is such a great cartridge. It always gets the job done. At the same time I was watching a poor guy at the rifle range a couple of months ago. He was probably 120 lbs soaking wet and he was getting the snot beat out of him with a light weight 30/06. It was like watching a cartoon every time he pulled the trigger. His head would stay still but his entire body would go back 1ft. So as great as it is there are some people that would be so much better off going with something else. I just think that would be a good topic and something some people like that guy should be aware of.
@@TomRiverSimpleLiving Wish you would do a video on 30.06 and explain you can load it up and down for different game.
@@leeadams5941 and I would definitely mention that and how versatile it is.
You have a wonderful common sense approach to explaining this decade long debate
Thank You
For once finally someone who puts it i layman's terms, i thank you Tom.....
Great video. You have the common sense most people need to apply to their hunting situations
Thank you very much for that Joyce.
Tom, your "what if?" dilemma is exactly right! Very helpful. Thanks.
I'm glad it helped
You must shoot a slow 30-06 or use round nose bullets to only match the 30-30 at those ranges. And I am a big fan of both cartridges.
My top 3 are from the low end
7mm-08 and on the high end the 6.8 Western and the king is of course the .270 Winchester it has win in its name 130 gr bullet still traveling over super sonic out past 700 yards
My 264 win mag will always be my favorite but I’m starting to love my new 6.5-300 weatherby. Never stuck with 270,30-06,30-30 etc. took my first bighorn in New Mexico last season with my 6.5-300 and it went clean through him at 400 yards. Turned his lungs into jelly
"you can put any bullet in any caftridge".....When I was in college and handloading my .30-06, we did not have a gun store for buying bullets in the college town. I told my Dad that I needed some 150 grain bullets. When the package arrived, i opened and it had 150 grain flat nose 30-30 bullets....I was so upset, but you deal with what you have. I loaded those bullets a little slower than I normally would, and my normal rifle range was around 150 to 200 yards. The first deer I killed was shot at 150 yards with a neck shot. The performance of that bullet was superior than the normal 150 spitzer that I normally used. The next 2 were lung shots and both dropped like a rock......so "you can put any bullet in any cartridge"...I used the 150 flat nose for several years and the results were stupendous..........
Excellent video I know it's been a year but I totally agree with personal preference and ideal ranges There are some rifles like Remington that come with 24" in 308 great video enjoyed watching it
Solid video ! Great knowledge and explanations👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻.
Thanks!
From my personal experience with Whitetail 200 yards is a rare shot I have shot 1 at 250 yards down a pipeline right of way but every other deer has been 100 yards and less instead of worrying about having to make super long shots do some scouting and figure out where the deer are feeding and bedding and how they are traveling to and from those areas creeks and drainages are like a interstate highway for deer just set you a tree stand up or make a little brush blind and wait for them to walk by
Yep I'd have to say 30-06. Its tried and true available in lots of model rifles and with available commercial ammo and hand loading supplies you can take anything in the United states from white tail wild hog elk moose even Grizzlies
There's a reason it's been so popular for so long, actually a couple of reasons!
@@TomRiverSimpleLiving 👍
Good to hear such common sense. Years ago Dominion- a Canadian ammo manufacturer- made a round nosed 215 grain loading for the .303 British. Thanks in no small part to that loading more moose and bear were taken in the Canadian bush country with the .303 British than any other caliber. It was a heavy-for-its'- caliber bullet travelling at a modest velocity.
That would have to be one tough bullet!
@@TomRiverSimpleLiving To get a bear you mean?
I mean at 215 grains in a 30cal it would take just about anything.
CIL made great ammunition back in the day with their Dominion, Imperial and Canuck brands. They had polymer tipped bullets, the Sabre Tip, long before any other manufacturer. Their 22 LR ammunition was exceptional - never encountered a rifle that wouldn't shoot it accurately. Had some of their 7.62 NATO military ammunition made in the late 1960s, and it was absolutely top drawer stuff. CIL faded from the scene in the 1980s.
If you're using the same bullet and discussing the the same impact velocity at different ranges, you're discussing ranges, which takes you back to the original 4 groups things were divided into. And those 4 groups are a pretty sensible way to split it even if the ranges are a tad short (even for "best" ranges).
Thanks, I wanted to keep the ranges on the short side for some of the lighter cartridges like the .243. And I know it can reach out further also but I think it's best 200 yards and in? And like I mentioned they can all reach out further if needed but I think it takes a little more knowledge on the hunter's part anytime you start reaching past those ranges.
Tom, Great video as usual. I have a thought for a future video. What is deer hunting today? Let's be honest, most sit in a nice blind watching deer feeding within 100 yards and most much closer than that! As a 58 year old hunter I have never hunted game at a feeder but don't judge those who do and can't say I never will. Shot my first with a 30-30 and shortly thereafter switched to the 270. Never got caught up in antler size rather enjoyed the pleasure of being in the outdoors. I could go on and on about what that means but I get the feeling you know where I am coming from. Just a thought...keep up the good work!
Thanks for that and I know exactly what you mean. I've never hunted over a feeder either. I did hunt over food plots before but I let way more deer walk than I ever shot out of them. When I was hunting private land and able to do the food plots I was also able to manage the heard in there and I turned it into a really nice place to be and not just for deer. All of the critters had a good time there. And I took what I needed buy never anymore than that. And something I know you'll understand, but horns never factored into any of it.
Probably the best break down I've seen on this topic. Really great video.
Thanks, I really appreciate that.
Starting to really love your segments
Well thank you
Just found your channel and subscribed! Really liking your videos. Concerning a .308 with a 24" barrel, you get that with a Weatherby Vanguard. But to me if you're getting a 24" barrel just go ahead and get 30-06 or 270. I got a Vanguard in 270 and I love it! I think they are the best rifle for the money these days.
I can't say that I disagree with any of your points. I do have a .308 with a 24" barrel but it's a target rifles. If I were picking a .308 for hunting I would definitely get a 22" barrel. And those Vanguards are certainly good rifles for the money.
Absolutely makes perfect sense.....few others can boast that. Enjoyed the video!
Thank you
30-30 (1890's), 30-06 (1906), 308 Win (1950's), 300 Rem Mag (1960's). When 99% of hunting takes place in 200 yards and under, I don't need a magnum. This is why 30-30, 308 Win, 30-06 have stood the test of time. The difference in a 308 vs 30-06 is only 100fps - 50yds range difference. One was made in 1906 and the other shortened the case in 1950's to fit it in a short action.
This is a truly sensible, down to earth discussion about deer cartridges. The only exception is the bullets. Not all bullets are the same. For years gun writers would say that if you could load a pointed bullet in 30-30 lever guns they would attain sniper rifle capabilities. What nonsense. There were plenty of 30-30 rifles around that were not tube feed. The problem was .308 bullets that would open up at 30-30 velocities. I have heard many times "I reload and the first round I put in the chamber is a pointed bullet". Got to wonder how many deer were hit and lost due to that. NO, not all bullets are "The same". I have a 7.62x39 bolt action I built to hunt deer. Using Hogdons max load and a Remington 150 gr Corlokt bullets, I get the same results as a 30-30 on deer. I am not a fan of hollow points, or HP's with teflon fillers on big game. Many of these new "Super bullets" are really being used on the wrong cartridge. I had problems with smaller diameter bullets that would not open up well under 100 yards. Know your bullets.
I couldn't agree more about the bullets but I was trying to keep this video simple and I didn't want to get into all of that. And I actually did a video on just the bullets and got into how some bullets are tougher than others and so on, but that was one of my first videos and I did a poor job explaining it and took way to long doing it. I'll have to redo that video one day.
And another great example of what you're talking about with the 30-30 is the 7mm bullets. At first all of the 7mm bullets where made for the 7mm Mauser. Those bullets were too soft for the 7mm mag when it came out so they made the bullets tougher. Well now most of the bullets are to tough to get good performance at the slower velocities of the 7mm Mauser and 7mm-08 for that matter. So bullets selection is a big deal for both of those cartridges.
@@TomRiverSimpleLiving Good pick for an example. I went through that with the 7-30 Waters. Hornady dropped their 140 grain F/P and I am not a fan of the 120 gr. I can use pointed bullets, but not attain the pressure because of the weak case. The barrel is on a 99 Savage and IT would easily handle more pressure. The ironic part is I re-barreled a .303 Savage because I could not get ammo anymore. Now I can get .303 ammo.
Great discussion but IMO 6.5 Grendel trumps the 308 Win after 400m, but before that its neck and neck. But it's a short action, can fit into an AR action, light recoil.
I have a friend that loves the 6.5 Grendel but I have yet to try it for deer. But for me personally the 6.5 Grendel is starting to get a little on the light side for deer. I have no doubt it will get the job done but if given an option I would go with just a little more powder in a 6.5 Creedmoor first. But we all have our own preferences and thankfully we have a lot of different options to choose from.
@@TomRiverSimpleLiving try looking at the kinetic energy charts, you may be surprised .
I have over a dozen calibers for deer hunting and the absolute best deer rifle I think has got to be a .30 m1 carbine. Because any of the calibers I have will work just fine, deer are really not hard to kill at all. The thing is, no one ever remembers the guy who killed a deer with a 270 or a 308 or a 7mm Magnum etc, etc. But anyone who can successfully hunt and kill a deer with such a lousy rifle as an M1 carbine (especially at long range) is a hero and should be honored around camp fires for the duration of his lifetime.
Now I never thought about it that way! LOL
Where knowledge meets experience, you get this thing called "Wisdom"...and this video is just chock full of wisdom!
The only fly in the ointment is that bullet and propellent technology have changed the game, in so many ways. One excellent example is the combination of FTX bullets and LVR powder, in the 30/30 Winchester. It is possible to drive bullets considerably faster, and they retain that velocity quite a bit farther, plus those bullets deliver accuracy and terminal performance that is dramatically improved over the old flat-nosed jobs. Another example is the well-designed hunting bullets that also happen to have a very ballistic coefficient. These bullets change the paradigm, because of how they retain velocity, and therefore energy, plus they are engineered to deliver good to excellent terminal performance. In combination, this makes rounds like the 6.5 Creedmoor into something more than the wisdom given in this video would suggest it should be.
The last thing I'll mention is this: The hammer analogy is a good one, but carrying a rifle chambered in a medium or long-range cartridge is not like driving in a finish nail with a 3lb sledge-hammer. You aren't compromising what you're trying to do in any way, if you carry a 30-'06 or 270 Winchester into a hunting location where 100 yards might be the longest shot you get. It really boils down to the specific bullet you've chosen for you hunting...not the "caliber". Anything from 24 to 35 is perfectly suitable for hunting deer, provided you've chosen a bullet that will get the job done, and you are reasonable in the shots you take.
I had to smile reading that Jason because you remind me of myself 20 years ago. But I have since learned that nothing has really changed in all this time for firearms and hunting. At least not since the early 20th century. I was reading "The Hunting Rifle" by Jack O'Connor and it amazed me at how similar the things he wrote about then are to what I'm saying now. He talked about bullet placement either behind the shoulder or in the shoulder just like I've spoken about. He favored behind the shoulder with his beloved .270 in 130gr for deer but he also stressed using bullets that would expand as rapidly as possible and his favorite bullet was a hollow point. Then I read "The Modern Gunsmith" written by James V. Howe in 1934. Again it's amazing at how little things have changed.
I will say that laser range finders have made a difference and you can reliably reach out much further with a slower cartridge like the 6.5 Creedmoor than once was possible but only if you have time to use that laser range finder and make the necessary elevations adjustments. And in my area you don't normally have the time. And without the laser range finder and a lot of misunderstandings about rifle cartridges for hunting the 6.5 Creedmoor wouldn't be any more popular than the 6.5 Swede was. Even though the 6.5 Swede was and still is an outstanding hunting cartridge just like the 6.5 Creedmoor. It's just neither are very good long range cartridges.
In the past 100 years physics hasn't changed a bit. We understand it a little better now but what they knew then still hasn't changed a bit. And in many ways they knew more then than we know now, at least with mechanics. And I suspect as you get older you'll come to realize the same thing?
@@TomRiverSimpleLiving - I suspect we aren't more than a few years apart. I started loading my own rifle ammunition when I was 17 years old, so 33 years ago. I hung around with some dedicated reloaders and competitive shooters who dispelled a lot of myths that were prevalent in those days. I have harvested game with virtually of the popular American calibers and currently reload for more than 20 different cartridges, including three wildcats, one of which I designed myself and is probably the only one of its kind.
You say it's amazing how little things have changed. How many factor rifles were truly capable of MOA accuracy, back then, without handloading? How many bullets had a BC well over .500? How many pointy bullets were safe to use a tubular magazine? How many different powders were there to choose from? I say things have changed a great deal, in many small ways. You undoubtedly make use of many of those changes. Is the H4831 you use in your 270 Winchester loads the old powder or the short cut grains which meter so much better?
What you attempted to do in this video was a very challenging thing, and you succeeded, for the most part. However, the answers you presented were painted with a very broad brush. It's not that any of the conclusions you reached were incorrect, but you left out a lot of information that simply doesn't agree with those conclusions. It's easy enough to say that there have been very few meaningful improvements in centerfire rifle cartridge design since the 8mm Lebel, but it's more accurate to say that we are fortunate enough to have seen a great many small, incremental improvements. I am as nostalgic as anyone, and I still read a bit of O'Connor every year, but I don't have my head in the sand where advancement is concerned.
@@jasonbroom7147 I do not believe you.
Great discussion!
It depends on where you hunt. Around here 50yards is max. Really no need for a speed demon. Personally I love my old Model 99 Savage in .300 Savage.
I also like to mention 257 Roberts 120 grain Nolser petition is a great medium range rifle
No real answer given range, terrain, shooter recoil tolerance....etc. But awesome conversation.
I use 7rem mag I’ve killed all my deer with it. I know if I aim to much in front I’ll blow out the shoulder, but it just puts them down so easily. And it’s the gun my dad gave me.
It did sound like I was being a little hard on the mags. I just didn't want anyone to think they had to have that much gun for deer at closes ranges. But now if someone chooses to hunt with one and that's just what they like then there is nothing wrong with that. And the 7mag in particular is an outstanding deer cartridge that has taken an awful lot of deer over the years. And for me personally, if I were to setup an extreme long range deer rifle the 7mag would probably be my first choice? A 7mag will definately get the job done!
7mm-08. great for deer.
Agreed!
Practical advise , very refreshing 👍
Favorite deer rounds 3006 35 Remington 243 win 7mm rem
Close to semi close range, shooting lane , highline, or in brushy forested areas .
Excellent! .308 for me.
There are so many great cartridges including the .308 that it's hard for me to decide on just one. I have to admit though, I have taken an awful lot of deer with a .308 and it has never let me down.
Your logic is right on. Love it.
Thanks
Nice video
I got the 6.5 cm
And 7mm rem mag
I think I got the between for now
Hopefully I get in between those two
Gosh you can never have enough!
Agreed! LOL
Very helpful, thank you very much
Glad it was helpful!
I would go with 30-06 with 180gr Thunder-Clapper not to obliterate a 120lbs deer, but for the big bad black bear that lives rent free in my head.
LOL!!!!
Thanks for the Great information... I've always said. By the gun that you can handle and shoot the best. And for yr location on where you hunt. Thank You for your show and all the great advice.
I wholeheartedly agree, the ranges should not be exceeded. Even the magnums that are energy - wise capable of 800 - 900 yard elk shots. Personally I make sure that I hit consistently a target at 700 meters( 770 yards), while hunting use it within 500 meters ( 550 yards) UNDER NEAR IDEAL CONDITIONS, low wind, no precipitation, no tangible level differential and preferably broadside. Obviously the bullet should be hunting construction.
And your approach is something that a lot of young people can learn from. When you pull the trigger you know you're going to make the shot and you aren't guessing. And that's because you put in the work ahead of time and you know your limits. Thanks for sharing that.
@@TomRiverSimpleLiving You are very welcome!
Bang on discussion.
Thanks Eddie
We spend a lot time debating caliber but honestly it matters so little.
Tom, what are your thoughts on 130 grain Nosler partition bullet from a 270 Winchester for deer hunting. Shots where I hunt can be from 50 to 300 yards.
I think that would be an excellent choice. In my opinion the Nosler partition is probably the best all around bullet ever made for all game? I will say that I tend to not use Partitions just because they are expensive and I do a lot of shooting with a lot of different rifles and it would get expensive for me to feed all of those rifles with Partitions. And I know that a premium bullet like a Partition isn't needed for deer. Deer are small and light framed compared to something like an elk and the old cup and core bullets work just fine for deer. But if I were going to only use one rifle no matter what caliber I would probably.load it with Partitions? And for the .270 I would probably go with the 130gr. but if they ended up being a little to destructive I would try the 140gr Partitions just to slow them down a little but. Hope that helps.
I have a 24 inch heavy barrel 308 and use 22s on my 06s which seem to not loose the full 25 fps per inch. Both my Browning 06s shoot 2670 there abouts with 22 inches.
Well done on the explanation.
That was great 👍
Thank you, and God Bless
Good naleg thank you.👍👍👍
From chilly capitol New Mexico USA
The right way to explain Ammo.
Thanks Jason
I love the 30-30 lever action. Who doesn't? All shooters love them but as a deer gun .... no ..... And I'll tell you why. Well, I May take any of those short-range guns if I have a set tree stand with a max known shooting distance of 100 yards. But that is quite situational and may fit an elderly or handicapped shooter who may be fixed to that location. But even in the north woods shots present themselves at ranges of over 400+++ plus yards all the time. Most people will sit on the edge of a clear cut, a reed swamp, a cut bean, or cornfield. A logging road. A power line cut, a fire break or burn. For deer hunters that can only buy one gun: pick an intermediate caliber from the video in a bolt action rifle. Spend at least as much on the scope as you did the rifle. With a low end of at max 3 power top end of at least 9 and a minimum 40 mm objective. And you will not, sorry CAN NOT go wrong..........
The hunting conditions here sound like they're about identical to yours, and for that reason most people do opt for intermediate or long range cartridges. But there are an awful lot of places were a 30-30 still shines. And I've started hunting public land more and more in the past few years and I've found myself reaching for the old 30-30 more and more. So it still has it's place for deer hunting but I have to agree about the intermediate range cartridges being more versatile.
Great video sir. !