The King & Queen's Robes in 2023 - Reuse and Symbolism
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- Опубліковано 30 тра 2024
- #coronation #coronationrobes #charlesIII
News of the coronation is now coming thick and fast - the order of service has now been released and I will give you my initial thoughts on that tomorrow. One of the items of news we have heard is about the robes that King and Queen will wear to the coronation next week. I speculated in my video about the pages some weeks ago that I wondered if new robes might be produced that dispensed with the fur and were lighter - I was completely wrong. The King and Queen will wear the traditional style of velvet robes, trimmed with gold and fur, but they have made, except in one case, the very sensible and economical decision to primarily reuse older garments for their coronation.
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I thought he wouldn't use the robe... Because of modern times... But i am so happy he keep tradition❤❤
He isn't wearing the 1700's knee length pants and stockings (think Louis xiv style
or George iii style)
@@here_we_go_again2571 Has that been confirmed?
No, it is all press speculation.
I expected new, lighter robes, this us much better than that.
@@allanbarton
I would think that the trousers of his
navy uniform would look out of place
under the robes --- But what do I know?
I love minutiae in general and embroidery in particular, so this video ticked all the boxes. The whole series has been a master class on the intricacies and traditions involved with the coronation.
I'm impressed with the King's ability to balance tradition with sensitivity to 21st century expectations. I suppose it helps to have had 70-odd years to ponder. 😊
I've been a subscriber to the channel for six months or so and also subscribe to The Antiquary magazine. I highly recommend both! The magazine is well worth the modest subscription price.
Thank you very much indeed. I agree that he has done a wonderful job of balancing all the various expectations upon him - it is a difficult time for a coronation to take place and to juggle the transfer of authority from his late mother. The ceremony will be splendid.
Love the embroiderers' work! Delicate, precise, and whimsical! Great choice!
and the CR robe will do nicely for Catherine in her turn. Excellent news
It will - it is all very sensible and economic.
@U. J. that may well change - all the robes are traditionally new, at least they have been for some centuries.
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Her cipher will be different. They are all unique.
No, It will change.
Wonder if they will remove the fur and use synthetic?
George will be hustling that day. Those robes are HEAVY.
Can't wait to see Camilla's robe. Its sounds delightful and beautiful.
Happy it will be traditional robes and delighted we still have the skills needed to make and embroider such robes. Also re use fits with the times. Lovely video thank you Allan.
There is a Royal School of Needlework in Hamton Court Palace. They made the lace for the Princess of Wales' wedding dress.
@@sheilaghbrosky4150 that is so good to hear thanks 😀
Excellent video!! I especially like the little bees and the lily of the valley in remembrance of the late Queen Elizabeth. 🥰💜
Queen Camilla's robe looks so beautiful in that shot, with the flowers and bees. They both look so heavy. It's going to be a wonderful day.
Can i just say that it is of no surprise that King Charles111 is reusing old robes, as he has always been a conservator of all things whether it be the planet, land, animals or items. I truly expected him to recycle the royal robes that are already made because he has always thought about wastage and has always been frugal, so well done to His Majesty for carrying on in his same vein of conservation.
Isn't it simply exciting? Can't wait for your next video delving into the Liturgy! Take care and have a speedy recovery Allan! X
I'm so excited, despite feeling ill I'm carrying on with the videos. I can't wait for Saturday.
@@allanbarton Bloody Covid! I think this suspense is killing me, really can't wait! Will you be in London?
@@AlexandrinaVictoria1819 no I'm going to watch it at home and then do a video in the afternoon. I think I would struggle with the crowds. Are you going?
@@allanbarton Me neither, with the same reason lol. Anyway, I just read that Buckingham Palace said that The Queen (besides her screen-less, public Anointing) will only touch the Sceptre and Ivory Rod and not hold them. Really weird and disappointing. TM won't wear the Rings either. What do you make of it?
@@allanbarton oh, I Do hope you can take good care of yourself! What a terrible time to fall I’ll! 😢
The needle work is incredible, they are very talented craftsmen. As a Texan with ancient British roots I can’t wait for the coronation. I missed the late Queen’s by seven years so this will be a treat. Thank you for your work on educating us about the service and what to look for.
My pleasure, glad you are finding the series informative!
I like how the King and Queen will be reusing the robes wherever they can. I think it also alludes to the fact that their reign will be understandably shorter and so reusing robes make sense now and possibly sets up William and Catherine to have new ones made on their coronation.
I think it alludes to the fact that financial times are difficult at the time and the crown is mindful about that. Even Queen Elizabeth I wore second-hand coronation finery of her sister, Mary I, because of the financial difficulties of the time.
The embroidery is exquisite. I love the bees and the choice of flowers. All these details. Incredible. ❤❤❤❤❤
How resplendent they will be on Coronation Day!!
Very informative look at the robes of state and estate Allan. Thank you for your detailed insights. The design and embroidery of Queen Camilla's robe is really lovely. Personal and even a touch whimsical. Can't wait for your analysis of the coronation Allan!
God save King Charles and Queen Camilla
Allan, you are a historian extraordinaire - and a journalistic diplomat as well. You present the changes in this coronation in just the right and reasonable tones that make them acceptable to those with a conservative and traditional nature. WELL DONE !
UA-cam asked in a survey if your video was a good recommendation, I gave you a thumbs up for each of their questions. Always a great program.
Thank you very informative and interesting
Its quite convenient that Camilla and Catherine have the same first initial! When William comes to be crowned (not too soon I hope!) Catherine will be able to use Camilla's Robe of Estate.
Thank you for another fascinating video. I have enjoyed this series very much.
Oh, I didn't even think of that - I hope she does; it will be such a publicly economical/ecological gesture!
It’s a good idea but won’t Catherine have a cipher of her own? Distinct from Camilla. The embroidery is outstanding.
Catherine will have a unique cipher. They’re all different from each other.
@@bluebellflora2510 That's ridiculous I think Harry made that up.. what a stupid thing! dont they like embroidering curly letters or something?🤣
She shouldn’t, she shouldn’t wear mistresses robe!
I've NEVER heard of the Royal School Of Needlework before your videos!! I wonder what they do when there's no coronations being held?!
Another BRILLIANT video, Allan!!👍💗❤
They are a very famous group among the world’s fiber artists and offer excellent instruction and wonderful books about embroidery.
@@starrycrown Wow!! Thanks for the info!!
Pretty sure these are the same people who also make Royal wedding gowns. In general, I'm sure they do a LOT of upkeep.....
My grandma was there immediately after World War One. They were constantly busy making, conserving, and restoring all kinds of textiles - banners, flags, vestments, robes, tapestries, curtains, uniform, liveries etc etc - military, civilian, ecclesiastical, secular... basically everything and anything
@@ludovica8221 Oh wow!! How interesting!! I bet she had a LOT of stories to tell!!
SO THRILLED that he's going to be wearing his grandfather's robes!!!!!
It is wonderful, a really nice touch.
This is a very interesting video. I enjoy learning more about this kind of history. It is nice that tradition is still done even now. I am totally amazed that the robe the King will enter the Abbey has been around for so long. It is so beautiful. Learning about coronation robes is so interesting especially for an American who is interested in learning more about things like this.
It is interesting that The king will choose to wear traditional clothes or military uniforms.
I have been following your channel for a long time. Because I have to comment on live broadcasts. this coronation in my country thank you very much for this great information
Very respectful.
As a student of the RSN its been lovely to see this video.
How wonderful to learn these skills and to keep these traditions going. Thank you.
For the life of me, I couldn't make out a CR on Queen Camilla's robe . . . that is until I realized I was viewing it *upside down!* 🤦
😂 yes they took the photo with it upside down, probably because of where the embroider was sitting.
They should add a small disclaimer to the printed coronation program: No weasels were harmed in the production of this coronation. 😅
Hello, I think stoats are used!
You make the robes sound so beautiful Alan. What a joyous time this is
As always, thank you, Allan! Brilliant!
The embroidery!😍
I hope they later display the purple robes for those to view while touring. Much detail will be lost during video of event. History that should be preserved, despite.
So do I, it would be wonderful to see it in person.
How are the historic robes and relics technically preserved for so long? Would be an interesting video after the coronation hubbub calms down. Like your detailed historical accounts!
kept in the cool and dark in acid free paper and archival boxes I expect
These robes have real ermine fur. Keeping that in good condition would be quite a challenge.
Beetle is visible at 7:33, about halfway between the hands and the bottom of the screen, crawling up a stem.
Yay! Was waiting for this whole day ❤😅
Good to know and I figured that’s what they’d do. To change robes that are already made for new ones made no sense.
Very interesting. Thank you.
My pleasure, glad you enjoyed it!
I wonder how the little black tails are attached to the white ermine fur. In some capes they are longer than others. Is there any explanation of how they create the ermine portions of these royal garments?
I'm loving these!!! Thank you ❤😊
thank you! your presentation and voice are soothing and informative.
Thank you … it’s getting quite exciting…
Wonderful video! This explains my previous questions. Thank you.
Glad it was helpful!
Great video. Allan
Reading the liturgy I thought Camilla would just have the one robe, so this is a big surprise. And it looks like they have removed the ermines thankfully
The fur will be present, certainly on the king's robe. You can't tell with the photos of the embroidery work on Camilla's robe as this work takes place before the garment is made up and thr fur is added. There may be fur, but probably faux fur.
@@allanbarton Ah I see, from looking at the long photo I could't work out if they had removed it from Charles' since it looks like there's a red border beyond the gold. Then again, that could be part of the conservation and might look odd without!
That was the casein 1937 for Queen Elizabeth who arrived wearing already the purple robe
@@RoyalTravelEvents Queen Alexandra and Queen Mary likewise. They were all anointed and crowned wearing their robe of estate.
@@allanbarton I REALLY hope she puts on the robe of estate quite quickly and sits in it whilst watching Charles get crowned. The robe of state is pretty boring although now that there won't (apparently) be peer robes, theres not so much red. I was hoping we would at least get to see peeress robes especially one more time. But, I imagine few people even have them anymore. Lots go to auction...
What a delight!
Ah I see the beetle on a stem. I was thinking stag beetles LOL. At any rate, I really was imagining short velvet robes for the King (like the Lord Mayor etc) or even similar to the garter, omiting the fur or...silk robes like the other orders. A nice embroidered silk court train for camilla could be beauitful.
Ha, now we are all waiting to see what he'll wear with the robes of estate, but luckily the times of the codpiece are long gone. 😅😂
@@murphychurch8251 Its not going to happen but I'm hoping for a 'court uniform' similar to the Lord Chamberlain but not in red. Black with gold and silver foliate embroidery tailcoat worn with trousers I guess. That would be better than the military uniform that we've seen a billion times.
Yeah, I have my robe hung up in my bathroom or shall I say loo.
First off, with the current fiscal situation and everything, I agree they did a good job, reusing Robes where they could. That being said, and yes, I realize you said which set they were, although I already forgot, but I can't help but wonder whether they should have made a new set of Robes for Charles III. I'm not talking both sets of Robes, but the ones he'll be wearing, annually, for the State Opening of Parliament, I can't help but wonder whether he shouldn't have had a new set made, due to that usage. I also can't help but wonder whether he'll still have a new set made, just due to the increased usage they would be getting, due to being worn, annually, and the set he's wearing, on Saturday, is already many decades old, and needing to be refurbished for the Coronation. I don't know if they're up to being worn, annually, for the State Opening.
I say he cares more about “modernizing” the monarchy. I bet he doesn’t wear a robe on these annual occasions
Late queens gown included the English Tudor rose, Scots thistle, Welsh leek, Irish shamrock, Canadian maple leaf, Australian wattle, New Zealand silver fern, South African protea, Indian lotus flower for India, the Lotus flower of Ceylon, and Pakistan's wheat, cotton, and jute.
I am very curious to know what you think about the removal of the Nicene Creed from the coronation liturgical service? What am I missing?
I think the roles of the pages will be a little different. We don't know much of it yet. I've been wondering if George and the other kids have been practicing during the school break.
what was the significance of these robes though?
Thanks again for a great video, this reuse isnt great for robe industry 😊
It isn't, but I think it might be a good political move this time.
Any thought on what the senior royals will wear i.e. William Catherine Anne (Tim) Sophie & Edward?
Hello, it is expected that the royals you mention will wear the robes and coronets of a Royal Duke. In the case of Prince William this will be the coronet of the Heir Apparent, which has a single arch and a globe with cross in the middle. This was last worn in 1911 by the future King Edward VIII. Prince Edward will wear the second version of the princely coronet which is the English cross alternating with the fleur-de-lis. Also royal dukes have six rows of dots in the ermine, where ordinary dukes only have four. So this will be s very special occasion to see Prince William in the full regalia as first in line to the Throne. Hope that helps.
We don't know for certain yet.
@@allanbarton Hello, I have heard that all royals and peers taking an active part will wear robes and coronets. However all other peers and royals not taking part but in the audience will just wear military uniforms or morning suits. I think this is a bit of a shame. I'm also surprised looking at the Order of Service that the Duke of Norfolk as Earl Marshall and Premier Peer is not paying homage. Prince William is the only peer to pay homage as Heir Apparent, as well as the Archbishop of Canterbury. I really think they've got this one wrong, but that's just my view on it. Oh well at least they're sticking to the full coronation robes for the King and Queen!
@@reggiebosanquet1525 My understanding is that William will pay homage on behalf of ALL the peers, and the Archbishop will do the same on behalf of the clergy. This will be a huge time saver.
@@JWRogersPS Hello, I'm sure you're right. However in the Order of Service Prince William is stated with a heading as being representative of the Princes of the Royal Blood. Yes he is representing all peers but that's not what is stated. I still think the Duke of Norfolk should pay homage for all the non royal peers, that is the Dukes Marquess Earls Viscounts and Barons (called Lords of Parliament in Scotland). I don't think adding one extra homage will take up much more time. More concerning is asking everyone to pay homage to the King both in the Abbey and throughout the UK and Commonwealth Realms. That's never been done before and is just very strange. Almost as strange as a Hindu Prime Minister reading the Gospel at a Coronation service, yet here we are.
Will the coronation edition of your magazine be available in digital format too, or just as a physical copy?
It will be, should be available by the end of the day.
I can't even imagine how many hours all that embroidery takes to do. I just had a thought. King Charles' mother wore that beautiful all diamond diadem during the procession to the Abbey on her coronation day. Is he likely to wear that or something similar on his coronation day?
@Bluebell Flora Thanks! I'll check that out. Edited to add: I finally found some video that included the procession. Thanks again.
The King’s Robe of State had no fur lining or trim in those photographs. Maybe they’ve lightened it by removing it and only keep the ermine cape? Possibly the same for all 4 robes? I wonder…
I think they have probably removed it to restore the velvet and gold lace - it would be impossible to do that with the fur attached - we are seeing a mid point in the conservation work.
@@allanbarton thanks. Let’s hope. Otherwise will look like a curtain.
Is there a way to subscribe to your antiquarian magazine? I am interested in receiving the PDF copy on a regular subscription basis. If this is possible, could you direct me to where I can subscribe?
There is - if you follow this link it will take you to the subscription page where the link to the digital subscription is on the right hand side. www.antiquarymagazine.co.uk/subscribe.html
@@allanbarton Thank you!
Thank you for your videos ! King Charles and Queen Camilla will they wear their robe of State during state opening of parliamant ??
I do hope so.
Just add hiding wheels under the robe,
so the children can handle it.
Do you think they will use new ermine for Her Majesty's new robe of estate, or recycle ermine from old garments? It seems questionable to slaughter hundreds of small animals for the purpose
I don't think they're using any ermine from studying the photos
The photos show the embroidery which is undertaken on the cloth before the garment is made. Adding ermine would be part of the next stage.
I don't see why anyone should grieve over the lives of some stoats for such a splendid purpose. After all, real fur is natural, environmentally friendly and sustainable, unlike the fake stuff made with horrible polluting chemicals.
@@postscript67 I dunno, maybe because killing a whole bunch of animals purely in the name of tradition, pomp and quite frankly, ostentatious and outdated frippery is maybe a bit sick? Not to mention that stoats are a protected species, so if it is the case it's another egregious example of the aristocracy being given special privileges over the common person.
Plus there's the fact that the whole thing is being paid for with taxpayer's money and it isn't like we have a choice in any of it.
Honestly it's high time we became a republic like most other European nations. Monarchies, constitutional or not, are outdated and have no place in democracies.
@@postscript67 Real fur is not environmentally stable, especially ermine given it only uses the end of the tail (and to my understanding is seasonal). Not to mention, I think the best outcome here would be recycling generally rather than plastic fur, but I don't know how well ermine survives use. Most of all, I'm pretty sure ermine would cost quite a bit more.
Do you think that Charles will wear the traditional breeches and stockings, or will he wear a uniform.
My feeling is breeches and stockings, I'm not sure I believe the rumours about the uniform. That was tried in 1831 for William IV and not only did he overheat, but it proved impractical. Lighter clothing would make more sense for your 74 year old king.
The coronation robes are a one size fits all? The older ones are probably small.
There is lots of fabric and lots of give in them.
Fake fur; i hope!
I want one of those robes to wear around the house
If Charles dies, Camilla can/cannot inherit the crown? The throne would go to William, wouldn't it? I'm from a backwoods trailer park in Oklahoma so I have trouble keeping all this straight. I thought Camilla was going to be a Queen Consort, but apparently shes gonna just be Queen,right.
She is the Queen Consort, but she will be styled as Queen as other Queen Consorts have been. When Charles dies, William will become King and Camilla will then be the Queen Dowager, as Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother was.
@@allanbarton -- That presumes That the King will predeceased the Queen, which might not be the case. She is older than him after all.
@@markmh835 I wasn't making that assumption, just answering the question.
@Allan Barton - The Antiquary Thank you for making this clear to me.
...of Holy Communion... 4:47
Disappointed at how plain Camilla's gown was. Expected more of what Queen Elizabeth wore at her coronation.
And crowned without a robe and enthroned wearing just her gown and crown. It looked very wrong.
Hi Allan, do not forget to discuss at length and reverence, the Holy Eucharist and the reverent taking if Holy Communion...it is the seventh part and the most profound, since Christ himself is present. 3:58
That will be the last video in my series and will land on Friday.
No wonder charles robe looked so drabe. Why didnt camilla use a recycled robe?
Queen Camilla used the Robe of State which was worn by Queen Elizabeth II at her own Coronation in 1952. Her robe of Estate was custom made, I expect because it contained her Royal cypher, which is unique to the wearer.
Pretensious
🤺💐
I wish so much that I could accept Camilla in this role. I can not. They didn’t marry, both single, when they had the opportunity. They didn’t. So Charles doesn’t now get to slide her into the position. You have to merit this exalted position. Camilla does not.
Merit is not a criteria for either role. And if you disapprove of their behaviour you need to read some history. Including how the Church of England came into being.
Such a shame that these two have tarnished the event with their tawdry behavior over the years. It is hard to celebrate the holy anointment of such an unholy union.
I don’t like hearing Queen Camilla!
🤢🤢🤢🤮🤮🤮
They’re billionaires, just make new robes😂😂
Charles should have commission new robes to wear,the ones his granddad wore are now dated and dull.
Had he commissioned new robes they would be identical in form - they have been for centuries.
@@allanbarton agree ,but the Gold on the old robes are Dull in color
@@oneileo66 It is gold. Gold May get dirty but it does not tarnish. I expect them to be bright for the coronation.
@@leahnichol6665 hey Leah! Do u feel like the gold was as you expected?
@@allysonh6410 Yeah, No! I was really surprised they could not bring the shine up. I noticed that when I saw him in the robe.
Don't understand why you folks still have a monarchy. But find all the pomp and pageantry fascinating to watch. (from the United States of America 🇺🇸)
We tried having a Republic in the seventeenth century, it didn't work.
Just because the house is crooked and old fashioned, doesn't mean it can't keep us warm and dry 🤗 Our house, our choice 🥰
@@allanbarton Still, your monarch has no political power really. Your parliament actually makes and passes the laws of your country. You have so many political parties represented in your parliament it's kind of mind boggling ... how do they ever get anything accomplished for the benefit of the common citizens? Here in the USA we only have two major political parties representing the citizens in our Congress and they rarely agree on anything of late . Anyway, democracy is a messy business and far from perfect. But do enjoy watching the pomp and pageantry of your country ... the British are the best at it when it comes to putting on a really spectacular show! 👏🤗
All that being said I still don't understand why in the 21st century the British still have a monarch and royal family that they financially support and who have no power. ... 🤔
@@travisgrant5608 it has some power just not total plusvtheyvare our best ambassadors for our country and have made lots of treaties on the ujs behalf and our best figure heads and bring in lots of money for us and they do a lot of work for chsrities in this country and the world and they are our history plus to be honest if your country is an example of not having royals no ty it sucks
@@margaretmclennan5169 I NEVER put down England or the British! I only stated that I didn't understand the reason for a monarch in the 21st century. My country is FAR from perfect in any way and right now is serious trouble because of the fascist right-wing-nut Republican Party. You don't have to stoop so low as to petulant immature childish name calling. It sheds a bad light on the wonderful BRITISH people.