9mm Spanks .38 Special? Underwood 9mm+P JHP VS .38 Special+P LHP - Short Barrel Ballistic Test
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- Опубліковано 5 вер 2024
- I hear a lot that the 9mm is significantly more effective and a better choice than .38 Special for ballistics. Is this true? Today I test the Underwood 9mm+P 147 gr Nosler JHP VS the Underwood .38 Special+P 158 gr LHP in a 10% Clear Ballistics gel test. Alway Specials appreciative of any channel help :) www.patreon.co...
I been getting trolled a lot on videos like this as if I rigged up this test to favor the .38 Special+P and make the 9mm+P look bad. I have zero reason to do this, I use 9mm+P and .38 Special+P and other calibers for my own personal defense needs. I used two Underwood loads with similar bullet weights and similar energy ratings that I have tested in the past in longer barrels, and in those tests, the 9mm+P did better than the .38 Special+P. The point was not to "rig up a win for the .38 Special", rather it was to come out with two loads that I assumed would perform similarly in shorter barrels, and show that the .38 Special+P is just as good as the 9mm+P here, I had no idea or reason to think that the 9mm+P would fail so badly.
It's not a rigged test. In my most recent test with the .38 Special+P round here, I tested it in the 4.125" S&W 686 a year ago and got 1,153 FPS/466 ft lbs energy, it actually performed poorly at that energy because it blew off the hollow point skirt after it expanded, over-penetrated to 23" and expanded the broken skirt to .670" in plain gel, through the denim and MDF it penetrated to 19.75", again broke the skirt and expanded the broken skirt to .625". With the 9mm+P that I recently tested in my 5" M&P (VS 200 gr .40 S&W) I got 1,148 FPS/430 ft lbs energy, it penetrated to 16.25" and expanded to .799" in plain gel and then through the denim/MDF penetrated to 16" and expanded to .710", overall it performed fantastically.
So going into this test, I knew that the higher energy of this .38 Special+P load that was achieved through a 4.125" barrel was going to not be higher than the 9mm+P in short barrels, but rather the same if not lower than the 9mm+P as a 9mm+P tends to lose less energy than .38 Special+P in short barrels. I had every reason to believe that this 9mm+P would perform better than this .38 Special+P load, but I was HOPING to not have the .38 Special+P lose it's skirt, HOPING that the .38 Special+P was close enough in performance to the 9mm+P to make people stop saying that the .38 Special is weak and that the 9mm 'spanks it', hence the name of the title.
But because for whatever reason, in the denim/MDF test, this 9mm+P round "failed" I am now accused over and over again of rigging this test up, I have to delete a lot of comments because i'm so sick of it. Knowing my past experience in longer barrels with what information I gathered, in what world would I think that this 9mm+P would fail and this .38 Special+P would do better? I would be very interested to know this, please enlighten me. Also, those who troll, get a life.
Past tests in longer barrels: .38 Special+P ua-cam.com/video/5_JFgqJvTSE/v-deo.html and 9mm+P ua-cam.com/video/cKjfvg1BSKg/v-deo.html
Gun Sam not from me
I love 38 spl /357 .mag. I've taken Pennsylvania white tails with both rounds from ruger blackhawk revolver
Your integrity is beyond reproach buddy. Those that question it are those who would commit the acts they accuse you of. Bang on as always and God bless you for your effort! 😇👍💪
@gunsam I very much appreciate your videos and the thought that you put into them also when you stretch out to 75 yards I like seeing that I like seeing the challenge a person needs to challenge themselves these other people that gripe about your videos and this other stuff they just need to grow up and get a life
I KNOW I will get more than one comment from someone along the way, SCREAMING in all caps about this is "NOT APPLES TO APPLES!" Let me reply. The 9mm is a high pressure cartridge with a small case capacity and requires a faster burning powder at a lower charge weight to work effectively. The .38 Special is a low pressure cartridge with a large case capacity, and needs a little slower burning powder at a higher charge weight to work well. Overall, lead hollow point bullets tend to work really well at slightly slower velocities, so that is what was used with the .38 Special+P, because that's the better choice.
With the 9mm+P, a lead bullet should not be used as a soft lead hollow point would deform in the cycling process and be unreliable, so a jacketed hollow point bullet must be used. So what we have here, is two cartridges using their best possible option for performance. How is that NOT apples to apples? You don't compare the best of one thing VS the worst of another. My ballistic tests are NOT COMPETITIONS! I bring forth the best options so that the consumer (you viewers) can choose what might be best to protect yourself with.
I don't have a dog in this fight. I may not be a super duper expert in all things ballistics, but I know enough to show some good options. And no, I honestly had no idea how this 9mm+P was going to perform prior to testing it, as it performed well in a longer barrel when I tested it in the past. I assumed both cartridges would perform nearly the same overall.
You already did a video on that point called, "The most overlooked advantage of .38 special vs the 9mm. The screamers are just emotional. I want to know the strengths and weakness of the different rounds in each of the calibers so that I can make the best decisions for my needs. You make that possible. Thank you.
NO WORRIES MY FRIEND == THIS WAS AN INTERESTING TEST
9mm Inadequate has been losing wars, gunfights and lives since 1902. If it’s apologists have not gotten the memo yet they never will. 😜
This is KUMQUATS TO ASPARAGUS!!!!!!!! There you go. Just wanted to mix it up for you.
I wonder how that lead hollow point would perform loaded in a 357 Mag case.. 🤔
I don't know why people complain about these comparisons; bullet design is probably the most critical component (of a properly loaded round) in a sub 4" barrel. I appreciate your content and was convinced to get a 3-inch 32 revolver for my elderly father who has issues with recoil thanks to your testing. He loves it, shoots it well, and it's way better than a .22. Keep it up!
Once AGAIN!!!! The 9mm boys just dont like the facts. 38sp is and always will be a great caliber. Yes, 9mm has capacity over 38sp, but for me, I'll take reliability and consistency each and every time.. keep up the great work Sam.
They do me a 38 supers semi auto that you could get a bigger magazine for if you could ever find it I think they need to bring it back. It would be above the 9 mm below the 10 somewhere around the same as a 357 Sigg.
When society has raised a couple of generations of emotionally whack individuals, who have not exercised judgement, reason, the ability to juggle sets of data simultaneously and by deduction reach a logical pattern, or weigh correctly through priorities in data sets, what you have is a bunch of people who FEEL some way and believe THAT way to be facts, science, truth, and will fight you tooth and nail about it.
If I ever got into a gunfight with someone I hope they think like you....
@@Daniel-qe8qe yeah, I’ve been in gun fights in the military 9 mm Beretta 10 mm colt Delta elite not much difference you hit them you hit them
@@Daniel-qe8qe I know you aren't talking to me.
The .38 Special Underwood load is giving almost exactly the same results I get from the Buffalo Bore 158 gr. +P in my S&W 642.
Expansion is similar also. Another good choice for .38 snubbies.
Looks like the old “FBI load,” +P 158 SWCLHP was not all that bad.
The FBI load was about 100 FPS slower, and that's from a 4" barrel. This load is like two steps higher than that. Barrel length aside, a 158 gr lswchp at 1,000 FPS is the RCMP load. The Canadian mounted police had a load produced at that power level.
@@GunSam wow, this one is worth getting. I dug out my 1974 edition of Cooper on Handguns, to reread page 37 for handloads to get 158-160 bullets up to 1000 in a snubby or 1300 in 6” guns. He was willing to accept scary pressures. This performance in a safer load is impressive.👍
I enjoy this content so much. It’s like watching your favorite TV show. It’s familiar, you know what your going to get, and it’s entertaining. 👍✌️
Thanks for watching!
👍😀❤️
I have been following wound ballistics since my teens in the late 80's. I was also a street cop for 21 years, which stoked my interest in the subject even more, and i started with a 357. The 158 gr LSWCHP has been getting it done since 1972. The additional velocity given ro us by modern companies like Underwood and Buffalo Bore is just more of a good thing. The original loads from the Big 3 were specced at 890 fps from a 4" barrel, and did well. A bit less expansion than in your test (typically about .52-.54"), and similar penetration. The RCMP used a version soecially loaded for them by Winchester, which would deliver 1000 fps from their 5" Model 10's, and they were very happy with it. So much so that they stuck with revolvers well into the 1990's. I use the Buffalo Bore version for house guns. It is quite accurate. In carry snubbies (mostly my backup, which i also carried off duty in hot weather), it was the BB or the Speer 135 gr Gold Dot. You make good points about capacity not being a huge issue. I always said the first 3 shots are almist all of it- that is your initial double tap, and a followup shot if needed. The mechanics of movement and the dynamics of fighting being what they are, after that your hit probability goes way down due to their movement and yours (and you had better be seeking cover). As one of the gurus, probably Jeff Cooper, said ling ago, you cannot miss fast enough to win. Only hits count. If you shoot your double stack auto well and don't mind the extra bulk, more piwer to you. But do not disparage revolver shooters. The 38 with good ammo more than meets the need, and many oeople still shoot revolvers better for various reasons. Your skill level with the tool you have matters more than the tool itself. That being said, i do not own a 380 and would not use one. But that is me. Many people use them well, especially the more medium size ones like the Beretta 84 (which did impress me as a training gun years ago) or the Shield EZ. THE Bersa Thunder seems to be a great gun for the money too. STAY SAFE!
Thanks for your service and thanks for sharing!👍💪❤️
I used to watch the Yankee Marshal, and he completely avoided the 38 special, like it wasn't even an option.. I never understood that..
The Yankee Marshal isn’t someone who is testing and using real world data.
He’s another Fez Whatley !
Me either. Like, yes the .357 Magnum has good exterior and terminal ballistics from a snub, but you pay for that with recoil a good 3 times as harsh as a short barrel .38 Special. To me the trade off isn't worth it. In a snub, .38 Special+P is the way to go even if the gun says .357 Magnum on it. I need at least 3" of barrel, 30 OZ of firearm weight, or both, to consider carrying .357 Magnum.
He likes power. He says that power isn't everything but it matters. He also states that he believes people underestimate the need to shoot through objects in a gun fight. And therefor more power is beneficial. Essentially if you're carrying a 38 why not just carry a 357 and have the extra power.
@timrobinson6573 because most carry size revolvers are chambered in 38 only and the ones that are 357 would be unmanageable for many..
AND, if there was a barrier between you and your attacker, you probably be questioned pulling the trigger in the first place!
Does it fit easily in a pocket? Does it make a load bang every time you pull the trigger? Does it inflict intense pain as it travels through human flesh and bone? Yes, yes, and yes. Good enuf for me 👍✌️
38 special isn't anything to turn your nose up to. Very powerful cartridge for the size of firearm you can use them in.
As you know my .38 saved me three times over the course of my career & it’s what I carry in retirement. My preference is for a J Frame mostly b/c they can be had in super light weight frames, safer & easier to pocket carry IMHO.
Thanks Sam. Useful information. I bet that a 147+P HST would have done much better. Either way, good info. Not using a Nosler 147+P out of a 3" Barrel. I would be interested in seeing a similar video using 125 +P .38 vs 124 +P 9mm.
The speed of that 38spl is more like a lighter 357 mag loading.
Excellent scientific comparison! This is why I sub to this channel. Thanks Gun Sam!
Thanks. I am subbed to you as well. Have been for awhile.
Gel-only tests seem to be inconclusive, and the whole tale is told when the MDF and denim are added in.
The Norma bullet in the 9mm is probably not one that I would be comfortable carrying. Just not a big fan. 🤷♂️
The .38, on the other hand, seemed to perform quite well.
Well shown as usual GS . Keep doing what your doing and dont listen to the haters. FJB
Haters gonna hate. 💁
The "old school" non-jacketed lead hollow points just work 👍.... I would like to see how the Taurus 905 9mm does with the same type of bullet.
GS. Another very good and interesting video. Nice comparison and I appreciate your commentary as well. Thanks for sharing and take care.
Great video Sam, thank you!!!!
Well put together video thanks.
Very informative test.
Thank you!
Revolver beats spray & pray .
That's sort of like saying, first I spray, then I pray that I don't have to pay for a lawyer attached to each of those bullets. But honestly, God isn't going to hear that prayer.
Thank you. It is good to see some successful 38 snubby performance.
Surprised that that nosler bullet didn't expand through the "real world" test; not at all surprised that the .38 spl performed ideally all the way around, ballistically. I never feel under gunned carrying .38 spl. It will make a bad guy plenty dead, as long as I do my job. I add a 9mm to the mix only when my errand running might bring me to places where greater onboard capacity might be a good idea. Thanks as always!
P.S. .38 spl Derangement Syndrome is real.
Thank You again Gun Sam! Keep straightening them out on the facts.
Great comparison 👍 keep them coming
Thanks for the video. They are always informative.
Thanks !
A hot 38 Special load to be sure but the "secret sauce" is in the 158 grain lead hollow point bullet. The lead has to be a certain softness to be able to expand properly at that velocity and also have adequate penetration. Some people may deride the load, calling it "grandpa's bullet" etc, etc. but it works far better than most people might suspect and the testing proved it.
The 9mm crowd may shout that the .38 Special will lead at velocities over 1k fps. I understand that Buffalo Bore gets their LSWCHP bullets from Rim Rock Bullets and I would suspect that the Underwood version is similar. The bullet has a copper gas check applied to the base to allow for higher velocity over 1k fps. I want to say they are Brinell 5.
If you want to duplicate the old Metro/FBI load you can buy the bullets from Rim Rock but I buy Zero 158 grain LSWCHP bullets from Powder Valley. The original Metro load was a swaged bullet sans gas check and the Zero is a good option. I load mine to 950 fps. from a 4” barrel. It hits quite hard.
I always watch these videos with interest and learn a bunch. I would like for you to do some “ classic” videos with the bologna packs and water jugs! I know the price of bologna is getting up there though😂
Another great video. The best UA-cam tests are on this Chanel. Happy subscriber here.
You have a great show.. Long time Sub
Thank you
"That 9mm spanked the perp good."
"You also spanked a bystander."
Nice episode.
Thank you for a “Fair & Balanced” comparison. (P.S. I would never attempt to shoot a handgun in self-defense at 75 yards! That’s because I’m old and even with the new glasses, I STILL cannot see a target at 75 yards. Maybe if I was being attacked by the ‘Broad Side of a Barn’.)
People joke about that stuff. I grew up on a farm, bb gun hitting the broad side was something I did quite a lot! We got one of those oldschool classic barns, rounded roof, 39 ft tall.
@@GunSam 🤣😂😅
Interesting results!
🇲🇽 México. Saludos. me gustaría. que hiciera un test de Prueba. del calibre .38 Super. Auto.+P contra el .9mm +P. Saludos de México.
38
Excellent job
Let’s Go!
Nice presentation. I still love the .38 special personally. I did move to .32 H&R Magnum recently and am liking that as well.
I agree with you and also the 32 long is also better than most people think. Nobody wants to get shot, and there is six in j-frame 32's. Clay
Thanks for the test. I carry both .38 Spl and 9mm. My gut feeling is a slight edge in effectiveness for the .38, while the 9mm gives a few more rounds. With .38 I tend to practice 2-round controlled pairs. In 9mm I practice 3-round bursts. In either case, if I think I blew one shot, I do a follow-up shot. There's no magic bullet, shot placement is a factor. It might be a 1-shot gunfight. Thanks again for all your hard work in producing these tests.
I think you're high bro.
9mm bois: "I felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced...I fear something terrible has happened"
I get accused of being a .38 Special fanboy, all because I tend to like .38 Special. The ".38 SPECIAL FANBOY!" and other names come out when I happen to test one that outperforms a 9mm. There is some fanboy issues going on, but it's not from my end.
Isn't "fanboy" kind of sexist? 😆
Another great comparison, nice video
Excelente trabajo. Saludos desde España
Personally I feel if I was using this 38 caliber cartridge, I'd prefer a upper 20 to lower 30oz range revolver, probably a 3-inch barrel 6-shot which can also double as a .357mag. This of course isn't a pocket pistol due to extra weight and slightly larger size. Maybe the perfect pocket revolver is the .327 Fed LCR.
With the heavier weight revolver, this 38+p would probably gain more control with the rapid firing.
Appreciate the test Sam, as always! Your choices between platforms and ammo comparisons are logical.
Shows how sensitive the modern bullet designs are to velocity. They are tuned to a specific velocity. The old school lswchp not so much.
I think .38 special is certainly a great cartridge for defense regardless, but where I think it's true capacity to shine is with non-expanding rounds like a standard LRN for areas that prohibit HPs for self-defense. Granted, I don't ever have to worry about that, but even so I'll still happily take .357 and .38 with me when I go camping or stay out in rural areas. Just some boxes of ammo and a revolver + leveraction carbine make it easy not having to worry about dealing with magazines or anything.
I like your videos because they make so much sense without a lot of bs. I am also one of those people who shoot a revolver better than a semiauto. Don’t know why but I’m far more accurate with a 38 or 357 tham a 9mm. I would rather have 6 accurate shots than 17 where only half hit the target. Keep up the videos and thanks.
Interesting test.
Also, succinct statement about my bullets not hitting their bullets down range.
Sam: what is you experience with Hornady American Gunner 38 spl hollowpint, 125 grain? This is my defensive ammo with my snubbie 64-2 S&W
I just bought a box of them and interested in his opinion too.
I think you have said it before that the 9mm is always a great round until you encounter any type of barrier… either it performs ideally, or it doesn’t. No in between, and the more videos i see, the more i believe you’re right!
Gun Sam. You are one awsome pistol revolver shot. . You shoot different small handguns at distance.. and hit steel. Damm good shooting. If you were using my super Blackhawk or security 6. What you were doing would be alot easier. I use .y rugers to hunt deer here in Pennsylvania. . Good shooting gun Sam. Better than I could do with the same handguns. God bless.
Very good information and test here !
I like both calibers and both are really good cartridges. It shows at least that you should carefully choose what ammo you use. I would feel as well armed with a .38 Special as with a 9mm. With the right load in it...
For civilian self defence a 5 or 6 shot capacity is imho still fine. This is not what Hollywood shows or the tactical guys tell you but it is what the statistics say.
With that ammo you compared here a 4 inch revolver will be on par, even with a full size 9mm, as the .38 will gain more velocity out of a longer barrel than the 9mm. I really like the 9mm, but the .38 has the added advantage to be reliable with any load. From target wadcutter to the full power ammo you showed. There is a load for everyone in the repertoire of the .38 special.
One difference and disadvantage for the real world might be that if you shoot ammo like that out of an aluminum lightweight, but still + P rated revolver, it will probably beat the gun to death pretty soon.
You also showed again that old shool ammo and bullet design is in no way less effectiv than the modern expensive hollowpoint ammo.
In my experience the 158 grain lead bullet is the best for .38 special if you go for energie. A jacketed bullet can not be driven to the velocitys a lead bullet can without increasing camber pressures.
Good test! Thanks Sam!
It will be more messy, but I think you should consider using a tile instead of MDF. MDF is hard, but bone is much harder compared to MDF. Maybe put the MDF behind the tile to see how the tile impacted the bullet based on the bullet hole in the MDF.
Missing the steel so much could be BTFD! ( bad trigger finger disease. ) Hang in there!
According to one source, cited by Dick Fairburn, 38 special 158 grain wad cutters were actually better man stopper rounds than the vaunted 357 magnum 125 grain. It was only by 1%, but that counts.
I think the 9 mm is adequate for civilian self defense, but really a bit overrated as to its effectiveness.
Besides the officer body cam footage and police department documentation of higher round counts since returning to 9 mm, take out a dime and lay it on a table... That is roughly the same diameter as a fully expanded 9 mm... It is also about the same size as a 45 ACP ball round. Simple physics precludes the 9 mm from being equal to 45 ACP.
Again, I believe it is adequate, but I will never feel under prepared with 38 special wad cutters.
But that's just me.
A 38 with a 6 " barrel works just fine for every day plinking, steel plate matches or defense. IMO.
Gun Sam. A 38 spl with a pure lead bullet. Is very effective. . Doesn't need to be +p to be effective. . 😊
I’d suggest the Underwood load is quiet a bit hotter than a lot of .38SPL+p. However I could be wrong. The Federal HST and Speer Gold Dot bullet designs are better than the Nosler. I own, shoot, and carry .38 and 9mm. They’re both great-with appropriate bullet selection for the barrel length.
When I would handload, I would load a lot of .38 Special+P loads. What I found, was that if you take the max charge with the cheapest, lowest charge powder weight/fast burning powder that is typically used in a standard pressure 9mm load, and use that for a given .38 Special+P load (as the load data showed it this way) what you got is basically 125 gr at 900 FPS in a snub with an XTP, ironically identical to most factory .38 Special+P loads. This saves the ammo companies money, puts their load to probably barely over 17,000 PSI, now they can market it as +P and get people to buy it thinking it's good, while dually knowing that this load wouldn't blow up an antique revolver.
In contrast to 17,001 PSI trash with bad powder that most companies load, I suspect that Underwood not only uses a slower burning powder or a proprietary blend, and they also push it up there to a true +P 20,000 PSI level. Just my thought on what is probably happening.
"It would do fine on a naked attacker."
Quote of the day!
Interestingly does happen a lot, but the papers usually start the story with "Florida Man......."
I love this video , you probably saw that jack@ss on military arms channel 😂. It's a horribly skewed video it's also almost a drinking game the amount of times a s&w 340pd is mentioned take a drink. But that BS aside great video I really like how fair you are and show honestly how each load performs.... 👍🏻💯
In terms of performance they’ll realistically *probably* perform the same, as in the guy either dies or falls over wheezing from the entry holes in his lungs.
The 9mm might be inferior because if you are shooting a lighter bullet with a lighter load for plinking fun, the gun might not cycle reliably, can’t say the same for a .38 special.
The bottom line is that the .38 Special+P, .357 Magnum and ,45 ACP are not ineffective, they just are not sexy anymore. When you consider that they replaced RNL loads, talk about a paradigm shift.
Great video. Tks.
Hey Sam thanks for posting really enjoy your videos. Have you tried PPU standard pressure 38 special 158 grain LRN or SWCHP?
38 Sp. Question. How would you compare the Underwood +P 158gr LHP round to the Buffalo Bore +P 158gr SWC-HP?
9mm vs 38 special. What one is better? I guess that depends on a lot of different factors.
Most of the time I'd have to say the 9mm. Why? Cheaper ammo, and less problems finding a dependable round. 38 Special's are great for dependability most of the time. However, finding a dependable, defense round that will expand with a 2" barrel can be quite the task.
But Thanks to this video channel, I've learned a lot about them, and I'm quite happy with my 38 special.
I like the Underwood .38 Special load, as the smoke seems to be less. For 9mm, I don't like 9mm at all because of it's street credibility. I watch video after video of it being next to useless. A lot of people like to read ammo boxes, come to the conclusion that 9mm is more powerful and then leave it at that. Reality comes, for whatever reason 9mm takes like 6-7 shots to stop a threat but .38 Special often takes one or two. All I can sum up is that a .38 Special expands faster as it has a bigger hollow cavity, and tears through more shallow. A 9mm tends to go in deep before it expands, thus making not effective. The 9mm always 'wins' in ballistic testing as it eventually expands and make's people think it's great, oh look .60" expansion, but there's a lot more to that equation. Comparing stories told by old LE that used .38 hollow points VS the footage I see of 9mm hollow points, there's no way I would ever choose 9mm unless (like I do) have a 5" 9mm pistol loaded with 115 gr Federal 9BPLE 9mm+P+, as I know that will energy dump.
@@GunSam I was torn between the Taurus G3c & the 856. As my budget wasn't good enough at that time for the 605.
I ended up going with the 856 because I felt my wife would be more comfortable with a revolver. Since then, I've came to love that Snub Nose quite a bit.
Seeing what you just said makes it all the better for me too. Thanks for making these video's. You've taught me a lot about guns & ammo. Peace.. Joe
Good
The 9mm Sub Sonic 147 grain JHP used by law enforcement in the early 90’s had very poor expansion with many over penetration incidents. I recall an innocent bystander during a robbery. An LA County Deputy Sheriff shot the suspect and the bullet exited shattered the store window striking the employee killing him.
Can you provide a link to the news article?
@@timrobinson6573Like many other shootings in the early 90’s. Some of the Gun Magazines did write an article about the 9mm 147 JHP.
Great video but I'll stick to my 9mm w HP.
-Combat Vet
I'd like to se a bit closer comparison, with the revolver having a 3" barrel (Yes, yes, I know autos measure barrel length from the breechface, and revolvers from the forcing cone) but still...
My preference for daily carry is a 3" .38 five-shot revolver. I actually have two - although only carry one at a time - but I will have additional ammo in an old Bianchi Speed Strip. Why? because I am not a fan of striker-fired semis, and absolutely hate 'trigger-dongle' safeties!! Less than 5% of the time, I'll carry my old S&W 39-2. My 'discrete carry' ankle gun is a 1st gen Ruger LC9 - the original hammer-fired version.
As for loads, I won't get in to what loadings I carry in mine, because it is MY choice, not anyone else's business.
great video Sam
Thanks!
I like both 9mm and 38/357 but tend to shoot more accurately with a revolver. I would not feel under gunned with either. 🙂
The 38 is MUCH more powerful than the 9mm when you open the comparison to hand loading. SAAMI specs keep it mild because of all the old guns out there chambered in 38 spl. How couldn’t it be more powerful? It’s the same diameter bullet but it has almost twice the powder capacity of the 9mm!
I'll always choose .38spl over 9mm. I'm not a fan of the metric system. 😅
What weight load is best for a snub nose 38? 158 gr are tough on the hand & thumb, at least after 50+ rounds. I only have 130 gr JHP now, but I'm not sure that'd enough. I carry either my .38 or my G43X, but I prefer my 638 S & W.
If I had to pick a general use weight, i'd probably say 125 gr in a +P. With normal ammo like Federal, Hornady etc, a 110 gr +P tends to work well but under-penetrates. A 125 gr expands and penetrates well, and heavier tends to not expand well (but Winchester Defender 130 gr does well). Now when talking Buffalo Bore or Underwood, most weights are pretty good, they tend to all expand and penetrate well.
Spit up my Pepsi reading your comment. Thanks bud.SF🇺🇸
Hi gun Sam. Both are good rounds are good. But when a semi jams ,under oh shit situation. My 38 spl revolver will give me 6 rounds. .im not bashing 9 mm. But ill take for sure 6. God bless and good shooting. Awsome video. 😊
I get a lot of comments on my channel about semi autos never jamming, if they do you just rack it and fix it, but when a revolver 'jams' you can't fix it yourself. What's funny is I been shooting a lot of rounds for the past 15 years, never had a revolver do that but had probably a dozen semi auto jams that could not be remedied without taking the pistol apart or sending back in to the gun company to fix it.
I agree. Gun Sam. I have been shooting revolvers since forever. My rugers have never failed. I'm 57 this year. And I'm old fashioned. I'm an army. Vetern. The only semi I own is a colt 1911 45. . I know that the new ones are good. But I know what works. And watching you shoot at distance . Is awesome. You are good. Your buddy from Pennsylvania.
Looked like they all hit low but with that burn, hard to tell
So they’re basically the same. One is just designed for a revolver while the other is designed for a semiautomatic.
No the 38 is way more powerful.
Chickens plus Guns = *Chicken Militia*
They died in a secret training accident.............those birds are HEROS!
If you could find one, you should try a super 38
There's just not enough ammo for it to be worth my time. I could however, try to shoot it in a revolver I already have. From what I have gathered, Remington .38 Super tends to be just small enough to chamber in a .38 Special or .357 Magnum revolver, as where most brands are just a tad bigger than a .357./38. I believe it, as when I used to handload .38 Special a lot I tended to not get much crimp when I was adding a Remington brass into the mix, as if their brand of brass is thin.
Why wouldn't you expect the 9mm to be superior. Homer Simpson says "Duh"
Strange how incorrect information keeps getting repeated. There was a 160 grain, 1100 fps .38 Special “high speed” load introduced in 1930.
Sam, what are your thoughts on using lighter .38 bullets in a snub-nosed revolver?
I generally recommend a Hornady .38 Special+P 110 gr Critical Defense as one of the better loads. Most of the time, I do say lighter is a little better as you tend to get some expansion and good penetration when you are talking 110-125 gr and a +P.
Are you still carrying a 40 S&W?
40 ftw
I have one with me in the vehicle. Rarely on body carry a semi auto though
In a damned if you do damned if you don’t world this is exactly why I have a 10mm way bigger than both of these and people love to argue about it
BuT 9mM hAs MoAr BoOlEtZ aNd LeZ rEcUrL!
10 mm is a very interesting round. What platform are you carrying? Glock, 1911, S&W?
But if I test a 10mm and happen to not hold it tight enough.....I never hear the end of the screaming that I limp wristed it. That's why I been planning on getting a S&W model 610 when I can afford it. It will run, I know that much. I'll probably go one step further and not use moon clips in my testing just to be sure there's no rotational hang-ups.
I carry each.
I hope to never have to use either.
I also hope to never be shot by either
I'd hate to get shot with either round ! I use the old school Remington 58 grain LRN .38 Special for defense. Grand Dad put down many a Bootlegger with this round.
What the What ...........
The caveat here is that Underwood has loaded these .38s EXTREMELY spicy. The hottest +P loading in my Speer manual pushes a 158 grain HP to 1037 fps (and that’s maximum charge with Alliant propellant). These Underwood .38 velocities are similar to standard .357 Mag loadings with a 158 grain projectile. I wonder if they’ve trimmed back .357 cases to keep the brass from blowing out? Bottom line, I would run these in a cylinder rated for .357 Mag but no way in hell would I run these in my ancient .38 snubby which isn’t even expressly rated for +P.
While I wouldn't run them in a revolver not rated for +P, because they are a +P, they are still .38 Special+P and I have ran them in S&W J-frames before just fine. It's a misconception that just because a cartridge is loaded a certain way to get maximum potential, that it means automatically it's over SAAMI or CIP limits. They're not, you just have a misconception of what a true max loading is, because of all the underloaded ammo out there.
But I’m looking at the Speer reloading manual which clearly lists the loads and velocities for regular and maximum charge for about a dozen propellants, under the section for +P. This Underwood loading clearly exceeds the Speer numbers for +P velocities *at maximum charge* by about 15%. I’m not looking at pre-manufactured ammo claimed velocities.
The Speer manual is data for a swaged bullet without a gas check. This ammo uses a cast bullet with a gas check.
I should have added that swaged bullets should not be pushed over 1k fps. Gas checks allow for higher velocity without leading.
I follow what you’re saying about swaged bullets, though can they really reach 1150 fps (in the .38 +P) using cast and gas check without exceeding SAAMI pressures? I don’t know. Only Underwood and Buffalo Bore claim anywhere close to those velocities with their .38+P offerings. It just seemed quite peculiar to me that these velocities are so much higher than the book shows as maximum.
140 wadcutters have all the size, penetration, and tumbling that you would want.
Is that LHP a GC or PB ?
Idk imo tyvm ttyl
Gas checked. It is a soft cast bullet with a gas checked applied. I believe it is made by Rim Rock for Underwood.
Thanks. I was thinking it might be , was not sure.
👍😊
Algorithm
PizzA
ALL CAPS ‼️‼️‼️‼️
Preach it. Just make sure after getting mad, to yell upstairs at mama "sorry"
Source?
Caps Lock is a button on a computer keyboard that causes all letters of Latin and Cyrillic based scripts to be generated in capital letters. It is a toggle key: each press reverses the previous action.
@@GunSamTell it like it is !
Capacity 5 or 6 rounds are not enough
Maybe not for YOU. Statistical averages are that 5 are nearly always enough.
In tactical/combat scenarios maybe 5-6 is not enough, but in self defense scenarios it's plenty if you know what you're doing (precision/shot placement).
@@techsun9581 I would rather have ten rounds and not need it than need it and not have it
9mm sucks