I remember my instructor saying at the end of my Airbus type rating; “remember how bad you flew today. One day, when you become a captain, you’ll fly with a new FO and his handling wouldn’t be very good, never forget that you were once just as bad, maybe even worse.” Wise words from a wise man.
Kelsey, I was a firefighter in northern California at a small uncontrolled county airport. I have to tell you that when we were doing fire drills on the airport, one of the hardest things to get the volunteers to do was to look for planes......ON the runway! Invariably they would be searching the sky for planes, and not one landing or taxing. I'm not surprised that the driver didn't see the plane.
6:09 This happened in Roanoke, Texas. The road in question isn't actually part of the airport itself, it's privately owned. According to USA Today, the airport has tried to buy the road from the owner, but they refused. The owner of the road *did* paint the word "STOP" on the road, but there was no actual stop sign. The pilot of the plane, William Davis, was a student pilot doing his solo cross-country. He temporarily halted his training after this incident, but would later return to aviation and get his license. The runway now has a displaced threshold. (Edit: It wasn't the pilot's first solo, he was doing his required solo cross-country.) (Edit 2: He didn't give up permanently.)
Is this Northwest Regional Airport? That's what shows up of Google Maps. I can't imagine they built a fairly large airport without securing property around the airport.
The way I see it, that private owner should pay for that former-student-pilot's expenses. Unless that private owner has a damn good reason to keep the road, keeping it private makes it a threat to the airport. Had something gone just a little bit worse, that former student could've been seriously injured. Yes, he was flying fairly low on approach, but he was still on-track to land ON the runway. The only reason he didn't land safely was because of that vehicle. So either the runway gets extended in the other direction to restore it to its full operational length (at the expense of that private owner), or the owner should be compelled to sell the road. Snobby prick needs to get off his high-horse.
I love how you prove a saying I love, 'The difference between a professional and an amateur is the pro has already made the mistakes before and knows how to fix them.'
I must say, having a captain that is yelling at his first officer, is a major safety concern... If I remember correctly, there have been crashes, because of this. You create an enviroment where the first officer might be apprehensive to tell the captain he is making a crucial mistake. And captains are still ppl to, that still are able to make mistakes....
I have to agree. I had a maths teacher like this. Screwed me up forever. But, seriously, I get what you're saying: that behaviour does no-one any favours. it's no kind of mentoring at all.
Putting domineering captains with junior pilots is never gonna work. Gonna make a hostile work environment. Couple of big examples: northwest airlink flight 5719 and Korean air flight 801.
Kelsey - you made some wrong suppositions about the collision of the two Cessna 182 skydiver planes. I was at one time an avid jumper. Most of my jumps were made from the venerable Cessna 182. We ALWAYS pulled back throttle during jump run. Pilot pulls back power - 'DOOR!' is loudly announced (the modified skydiving door is hinged across the top and the latch is at the bottom) the door flies up and open - pressure differential causes the door to 'fly' up against the underside of the wing - then the jumpers all try to climb out in a staging position before all jumping together. During that staging maneuver the plane is going to be in a shallow descent to maintain airspeed and the engine is back to near idle. The STC for those doors limits it's operation to BELOW 80kts (or something like that) and prop blast at throttle would also tend to blow the jumpers off the 'crotch' (the area you see them sitting on the wing strut). Water is a liquid, right? Trying to deal with 100mph horizontal air is a lot like trying to cross rapids in a fast moving stream. The force is impressive. Once just for fun - I had our pilot allow me to climb out, hang on to the strut while he closed the door and then throttle up while I TRIED to hang on. It didn't take long before I lost my grip. :)
True story: I used to be a "road warrior" in Southern California: one of those people that would commute 60 miles or more from the Antelope Valley to the greater Los Angeles area. One time I was coming home really late from work (I worked near LAX). It was after dark, the weather was bad, and the cloud layer was very low, so that once I got past Santa Clarita it was actually fog conditions going up the 14 freeway northbound. Now about 12 miles northeast of Santa Clarita is a little airport at a place called Agua Dulce, for light planes (Cessnas, Pipers, etc.). So I was past the Soledad Canyon exit and heading up the hill, into a thick fog layer. Suddenly out of the fog I see coming straight at me a small plane. It must have taken off from Agua Dulce and right into a fog bank, and decided to try to follow the freeway southwest toward the coast. It pulled up just as it got near me and I could hear its engine and feel the car shake from it passing by me. One of the scariest moments of my life! No idea what happened to that plane or the pilot.
I actually occasionally fly the Cessna that hit the car while on final. I was a student pilot and the plane showed up as a new plane at my flying club. The next week, my CFI is showing me how to go through all the maintenance records on that particular plane to ascertain airworthiness. We're going through the records and see all these receipts and records and we're both saying, "boy, this plane has gotten a LOT of work". A few days later, my CFI tells me, "I found out about that plane" and pointed me to the youTube of this collision, and the tail number in the video and the maintenance records matched up. The news reports in the original youTube said the student pilot was giving up on flying, so I was glad to hear from the comments on you that he'd gotten back into the cockpit after all.
Kelsey, you have great experience and wisdom combined with a fine attitude, great assets for a pilot I would trust. I love your humor. Anyone flying with Kelsey should be sure to bring some tasty snacks to stave off any chance of Kelsey's hunger taking over ! LOL.
@@74gear You don’t need the goofy faces unless you need the $$$, promote your videos on your reputation and the content, don’t play the “anything for views” game , same message went to Petter.
I don't agree on two points, visibility and hitting the bars: A Cessna that close to the car can't see it because it's under the nose. It's the same reason you yell "clear prop" before starting the engine, because you can't see what's below the cowling. The left seat PIC had little hope of seeing that car. Many small airports that don't have 1000 foot marks because they are less than 2000 feet long (google "list of shortest runways", I've landed at a few of them). Many small airports count on you hitting the numbers and using every available foot of runway (some have dirt "extensions" on each end, primarily for TO, but...). Landing "in the dirt" in a small airport without end-lights/antennas likely won't result in damage (forget failing the checkride; remember the "solely responsible for plane and passenger" thing), but overrunning the end is a whole different story. Small, piston engine planes, uncontrolled airports, short runways (often at altitude), single pilot, ... is a different world.
On the Best Captain portion of the video you couldn't be more correct. I think this goes with any line of work but your advice is spot on. I worked as a Professional Firefighter for 28 years on one of the busiest Truck Companies in the South. We averaged 3500 runs a year so we were busy all the time. I got promoted to Captain at 10 years. I remember when I came out #3 on the promotional test that I would be promoted within that year. So I started thinking "what kind of leader do I want to be?". I decided that I would take the best qualities of the people that I enjoyed working for and put the experience that they passed on to me whether it was how to good leader or they were able to remain calm and collected in a time of crisis. I also decided that I would take the same approach with those Captains that I did not enjoy working for or that I didn't respect (it happens in every line of work) and make sure that I didn't incorporate their behavior into my style of leadership. I know that this is an aviation video but what you said is spot on. I've been in that same situation while driving before I was promoted to Captain and even though it is stressful listening to someone yelling at you at the time, it is your responsibility to get the apparatus to the scene safely. Worry about what was said after you complete your job. Very good advice you gave in this situation. It applies to many different lines of work and I kind of laughed along with you as the Captain was throwing his fit. If you work in any line of work you will run across people like this. But when it involves the safety of the equipment, safety of the passengers (in this case), or getting to a fire scene safely, that falls on you. The disagreement can come later. I really enjoy your videos. I've learned a lot from them. Keep up the good work and stay safe my friend.
I had a fair few teachers in school who would raise their voice at students, and generally I didn't like it. There is only one exception to this. One of the only teachers I ever truly respected in school was my high school band director, who was definitely a shouter. However, he never demeaned or belittled students, he rarely directed it at specific students, and when he did direct it at specific students, there was usually some sort of major concern. During marching season, he also had to shout over 200-odd teenagers, outdoors, and those acoustics are different from classrooms. He was certainly rough around the edges, but he genuinely cared about us. He was also one of the few teachers I had who looked past my disabilities. I had teachers who were far quieter, but who I came to hate very much. It's one of those things that's hard to explain, but I think it comes down to this: My band director saw us differently from other teachers. Other teachers saw us as lacking in capacity and needing to be taught how the world works. He saw us as capable people who wanted to become better, and especially with band, that's usually true. I would be there, assuming I was physically well, every day at 7:00 a.m. on that (usually) wet, (more into September and October) cold, and quite honestly foul-smelling practice field (or the band room, after marching season, which would only smell like the field into mid-October) because I loved band. Technically we didn't have to be at school until 8:00 a.m., but we signed up for band knowing full well we'd be losing out on sleep, working hard, occasionally risking trench foot, and often getting very near frostbite. The point is, if you can't show your student(s) you care, in school or the air, you shouldn't yell.
You've got great insight to acknowledge that you learn from both types of interactions, the positive ones with people as well as the negative ones. And again, you are smart to avoid confrontation when it could cause a dangerous situation. Handling a problematic situation with calm logic instead of heated emotion is definitely preferable, and a sign of your maturity. I'm 71; I try to handle things in a mature manner, because I often did not when I was younger and often unbalanced! I always enjoy your videos, thanks so much!
What I heard you say from 15:40 about learning just as much from a bad instructor/captain as from a good one really struck me. It applies to many other disciplines, too. Thanks for all these awesome videos, and all the effort you put in!
@@74gear one of my boys (I have seven) is an FO with a regional right now… began training in late 2017. Been a captain and asst. chief pilot at a small airline …. Moving up faster than I expected…..Anyhow, watching your channel has helped me understand what he does - thanks.
Im not a pilot. I hope to be one day when I can afford to stay current. I found you channel on accident and was attracted by a funny clip. I stay interested in your channel not only because of the great videos, but more importantly because your lessons of leadership and patience are super valuable for even non-aviation life. You are a very wise and smart dude.
Kelsey, your videos continue to be an inspiration to me, an EFL (English as a Foreign Language) instructor in Japan, passionate about his work. They have been helping me re-frame my mindset and re-evaluate my delivery in my profession of choice, with me as the pilot in control, the classroom as my plane, and the students as my passengers for which, through my dedication and training, I am responsible and striving to offer a safe and pleasant journey and a smooth landing. Thank you!
I love the fact that UA-cam channels by pilots, accident investigators, ATC transcribers etc now make so much learning material freely available! Must be an awesome resource for instructors and student fliers... 😊
Really good information Kelsey. I learnt to fly on a short runway (3000 feet). I was also taught to land on the numbers. It stems more from the fact that the owner of the FBO wanted to save some money on brake pads. He told us to use aerodynamic braking instead of using at all until necessary. This really puts things into perspective. Of course landing a Cessna 414 needed to come in shallow and land on the threshold since he took up the whole runway to land.
@@74gear you're nice guy regardless and relatable personality (for simple folk) I think is very important on YT - unless you aim for fanbase of edgy kids 😂
Hey Kelsey. I don’t think I’ll ever fly, but I’m student teaching in the Spring. Your advice helps me to realize if I get a combative teacher to work with, there’s always something to be learned, some things to emulate, and some things not to do if I become the teacher that has a student learning under me. Thanks!
Good points! I have often thought that the "runway behind you is good for nothing" saying is only true so far. There's a reason that airlines use the 1000 ft markers.
dude, i cherish you sharing mistakes you made in flight school and stuff. most people keep that stuff a secret and it's a huge help to see pilots people look up to sharing mistakes they made
Kelsey! How old was the first video (hard landing/go around)? There was a Concorde out on the tarmac in the background right when the tires hit? Anyway, keep it going im loving the commentary.
I have lived in a mixed civilian/military airport town and I think it took about 50 years before they put up a warning light/stop sign on the dirt road just beneath the end of the flightline. We all thought it was odd as we have always had our attention to the strip because so many planes landing all the time. Some even petitioned to get it removed again as they claimed that the light and sign gave a false sense of security. I kind of agreed in some cases but it was also a help as some planes wasn’t as visible from the road as others. If your car wasn’t heavy enough there’s a chance you could be blown off the road. Just a small anecdote. Thanks for reading all this.
Kelsey was right on the numbers (no pun intended) as to the runway not being particularly short on the collision between the Cessna and the SUV, and no reason for the Cessna to come in this low. This was a student pilot on a solo flight in Northwest Regional (52F), Roanoke TX. The runway is 3,500'. Currently it has a displaced threshold, possibly as a result of the accident in question (I'm not sure whether it had a displaced threshold at the time).
⬆️ good info. However, the black 4-wheel could have, should have seen the small plane out their own **'DRIVERS' SIDE WINDOW** and ***STOPPED SOONER!!!!**
@@stevenr8606 Yeah, it was neither side's proudest moment. The two people at the SUV said they didn't realize anything was coming until the crash as airplane parts were falling around them.
@@stevenr8606 If pilots can get tunnel vision and not notice that they're about to hit a car, it's certainly also easy for people in cars to not be looking upwards. The driver knows they're near an airport (probably) but the pilot can see that there's a road there. Pilot doesn't expect actual traffic to be on a road that close to the runway, driver doesn't expect planes to come in so unnecessarily low. The real problem here is whoever decided the order of actions should be step one, commit to putting a runway here, step two, see if we can acquire this other piece of land which will be a problem for our runway.
I'm a retired 767 captain and currently a Sim instrucor. I recently went through training for a 737 type so I can instruct on that also. My sim partner was and FAA guy getting his type; at one point while I was in the left seat and he was doin support, he said I was the "Quintesential Airline Captain" I told him I wasn't sure if it was meant as a compliment or a criticism, but I chose to take it as a compliment (him being the FAA and all). The only FO's I ever got mad at were the ones that didn't want to learn (luckily, even though they are out there, they are not in the majority). Keep up the excellent work Kelsey!!!!
Things I’ve learned about Kelsey after several weeks of binging 74Gear. Kelsey loves free breakfast. Kelsey values snacks. Kelsey is probably the kindest pilot I’ve ever seen. Thank you Kelsey for taking the time to break these vids down. I’m 60- wondering if I am too old to become a pilot?
One of the best officers I ever sailed with on Fast Craft was a First Officer and also the lead TO. He had quite a firey temper and would go off at times BUT he would always make a point of coming back to the person he went off at and sit down to calmly go back over what the issue was to make sure the point wasn't lost because of his hot head. He also NEVER went off like that during ship operations. He'd stow it, pop off after ships tied up, go cool off then come back and explain. If someone's screwing up a berthing the last thing you want is to jump scare them.
But there is a reason for a student to land right on the numbers: because your CFI told you to keep practicing soft- and short-field even after reaching cross-country stage. During my private checkride, one of the DPE's instructions was "I want you to land and get stopped easily before that stripe, and try for half of that if you're able to do so safely." The stripe was at 1,000 feet. "Not every runway is dry and 6,000 feet long, and you should learn it here before going to a short grass field somewhere," my CFI said.
Sadly a friend of mine lost his life hitting a vehicle in a plane just like that. He was doing a low-pass flyby during an exhibition at a small airfield and clipped the top of a parked van. Unfortunately it flipped the plane and he was killed in the crash. Glad the pilot was okay in this instance.
More proof that the snobby, entitled owner of that private road in the clip should be compelled to sell the damn thing. Condolences for your friend. I hope regulations come out to prevent private road ownership that close to runways in the near future.
@@hauntedshadowslegacy2826 Or maybe snobby, entititled airstrip owners should find places to put their fields that don't have roads running beside them?
@@jamiegagnon6390 I'm not sure the irony is registering there... A road is probably one of the least disruptive uses of land in this case. Could be a tree line, a manure pile, or a lake....
For my commercial flight test my examiner told me to put it down on the numbers, but it wasn't a runway with a road crossing at the threshold of course, and he was just wanting to test my skill legitimately (I put it down precisely on the numbers btw and the examiner actually said "that was excellent" which I have since gathered is a rare complement during a flight test and one I needed as he wasn't quite so enthralled with my altitude maintainence during steep turns earlier in the test :-)
For my commercial checkride the examiner wanted me to put it down right on the 1000' markers, not an inch before and no more than 200' after. The ACS doesn't specify which point to choose, it just says "specified point".
@@homomorphic That's an old timer all right! I took my PPL ASEL, IR and CPL ASEL all with the same DPE, he flew F-4 (I *think* in Vietnam) and then flew cargo for some years. Great guy. My CPL AMEL I took elsewhere, so a different DPE.
You're right... you should tell them to their face, but what I would expect is that the captain would get out ahead of the criticism and write the report on the pilot he's abusing.
You are absolutely correct on „landing on the number“, however we do have fields here that are just 1500ft long and you need to do very precise landings.
This was in North Texas in 2012 (Northwest Regional Airport, 52F in Roanoke, TX)! We actually talked about this one in an aviation class I was in in high school since it happened so close by (this was maybe 30 minutes drive away at the time). The class consensus at the time was the same as your assessment: plane came in way too low for no reason (looking at a map of the airport, he was actually going to hit about 400 feet before the numbers), but also the car was supposed to stop at the stop sign and ignored it. He was a student pilot, and he gave up flying after this. The pilot and the people in the car all survived; the people in the car only had light injuries. That nosewheel smashed in the driver's side window when it impacted.
And it was true at the time, but that interview happened the day after the crash. I felt low and hadn’t had a chance to talk to anyone about what happened,” said Davis. “But after the shock wore off, I realized that I still had a passion to fly. It was my childhood dream.” Quote source: AOPA article
@Kelsey. Second video is at 52F, just east of KAFW. Pilot was a student pilot on either his second or third solo. And there is a stop sign there. They have actually changed where the numbers are to help prevent this from happening again.
You beat me to it. I had flown from there just a couple of weeks before that happened. With a 3500' runway and a 400' offset you'd think they wouldn't have that problem.
@@1OldBuzzard you would think.. I learned to fly from this airport and before my first solo. My CFI showed me this video and told me not to do what they did.
Don't know how old the raging left seater video is, but it's been around a while. Crew Resource Management really didn't become a global standard until the 1990s, albeit it's concepts had been being emphasized in UK, USA & few others for a couple decades prior. My thoughts go back to those instructors & others in left seats who’s careers began well before CRM emphasis. Some old timers (some) seem to be set in their ways & patterns as Kelsey says, “Theyre out there”. Regardless of why or how they became air tyrants, you definitely will learn composure under stress to some degree by flying with them, even if they quit learning to cap their fuses decades earlier. TYVM for another fine video.
I’m a hot air balloon pilot but I love your discussions on pilot decision making and hazardous attitudes. I’d love to take you on a balloon flight sometime if you’re in the Charlotte area!
Go arounds are initially scary, but you're right there is nothing to be worried about. As a passenger I experienced a go around. Coming in to land at Melbourne Airport (Australia) there were some high winds and turbulence coming into Melbourne but it was still safe to land (talked with pilot after, he was so awesome). Then suddenly there were very strong cross wind gusts so pilots decided to go around and try again. I had my young son with me. At first it was scary but I knew that I was in good hands. I stayed calm and kept my son calm. Also the lovely gentleman across the aisle from me talked us through what was happening so my son stayed calm. As a parent travelling with a child I tend to wait for the other passengers to disembark first as it can take me a while. So we got to chat with the pilots for a minute. My son asked what happened and they were patient and gave a quick explanation. He wanted to do it again once he realised everything was perfectly safe. 😅😅😅
I used to fly into Aeroflex (12N) in Andover NJ a lot. 1900 foot runway, lakes at both ends, and a road crossing the runway right at the threshold. I was always worried about something like this happening. It was a great place to bring students to teach them what short-field operations were really all about.
Kelsey is my favorite aviation UA-camr. A true professional who I’d be wholly comfortable to fly with, but who also seems realistic and would be cool to have a beer with.
One note on the Navy landing on a very specific area: They've got someone on the ship observing and telling them to go around if their approach looks bad, and even if it looks perfect, the pilots always follow through prepared for a go around in case they overshoot the cables.
And also, about not landing on the very edge, they usually aim to hook the third of the four cables, for safety margins. (Apparently it's bad style to be smeared all over the aft hull of the carrier)
Yes, the best approach is to aim for the middle cable and apply full dry thrust as soon as the wheels touch. That way if the hook misses or the wire breaks, the plane can roll through the 1000' or so of the flight deck and go around. I'm not a naval aviator, but I watch any old training videos I can find and read the pilot's manuals for old types.
Great advice!! The "don't escalate" advice applies to dealing with controllers too. Those guys/gals get very stressed sometimes, best just ignore when they lose their $4!t, get what you need out of them, ignore any bs, and be done with it. If it needs to be dealt with, ask for a phone number and deal with it on the ground.
Don't escalate is pretty solid advice for ANY situation where focus and awareness is a factor. Hard to pay attention to what you're doing if you're losing your shit and screaming at each other. lol
I trained at this airport (Roanoke, Texas) and know it well, as well as the accident. Not to defend the pilot who did appear to be coming in a bit low, but it's very tempting to land early in this direction as the runway "was" much shorter (at the time of this accident) and on a downhill slope in that direction. I see some comments about how most people can't believe the airport would have such small acreage, but it is a pretty tight piece of property. They recently were able to acquire some additional land and have completed a runway extension, now at 3500', up from 2500' I believe. Plenty of room to stop, but again that downhill grade while you're skimming into that little valley will make you want to drop in as quick as you can. If you're looking for a challenging landing, try landing this Rwy 17 at 52F sometime while the winds are from the south. Survive that then head to T67 (Hicks) airport for a great bite to eat, mind the car traffic there as well as the taxiway is also the road.
Kelsey, you say some very wise things in this video. Especially on the subject of communication and yelling at someone. Your way of overcoming crises can also be used in many other situations in life instead of screaming. You are the born leader. Next time you land in ATH Greece I would like to meet you personally before you say "V1", "rotate", "positiv range" again and take off. Greetings from Europe
I have been watching many of your videos and now I'm becoming more and more fascinated with airplanes rather than very scared what I used to be 3 weeks ago when I flew. Thank you so much!
I passed my flight test in 1981. In '85 I moved to FL from MN and found an airport to rent from. The checkout 'CFI' literally screamed at me from taxi to shutdown. He wanted me to touch and go, all the while screaming at me. I landed, taxied back, and shut down. I realized how expensive flying was and I didn't need the hassle of this moronic attitude. I paid for the plane rental (15 min) and refused to pay the "instructor" and walked away from aviation. A bad instructor can ruin a great hobby.
To the FO getting screamed at, "Good decisions come from experience. Experience comes from making bad decisions." - Mark Twain To the entitled man/child FO segment... the Dunning-Kruger effect comes to mind.
Regarding the first video, I was a passenger on a commercial jet landing at Buffalo. If you have flown into BUF you know that it can be very windy. This was one of those days. In order to stay lined up whit the runway the flight crew came in with some power to the engines and crabbed in on final all the way until right before they landed. Obviously I could not see the runway from the back but it must have worked. They straighten up and killed the engines but we almost on the ground by then. We hit hard but we made it. I used to live near Buffalo and have flown in and out several times. It was almost always an experience.
The advice at 13:22 also applies to farm emergencies. Whatever a farmer yells while a ram has his horns tangled in a fence and is of two minds whether to kill you or himself; or while a ewe is having a difficult delivery and the two little hooves are not presenting themselves, you just zoom in and focus on the actual problem. And when you're all done, you just might remember what *you* had said as well. And then you both just causally move on :D .
Ok, I subscribed because of this 14:29. tell them to their face. That's my personal policy and it shows character and integrity. good for you 74 Gear :)
I failed my first attempt at my PPL checkride by touching down just short of my mark on the short field. The DPE was quite apologetic because he had no leeway in judging that. Basically, the plane floated a bit on my first attempt, and I went around. The second time, I anticipated a bit of float, and it didn't come. Mains touched down about 20 feet short of the line. My retest was about .4 in the logbook. Nailed it that time.
Where I used to live, there was a road that ran right behind the runway. Before I cross, I always check to make sure planes aren't landing on it because even with a slight displaced threshold, I've seen planes come in really low. Then one day, I was about to cross, I checked my left side to make sure there weren't any planes landing, especially because I heard the sound of a propeller somewhere. Didn't see anything to my left. I looked out my right window and was shocked to see an old vintage warplane doing a low flyby over the runway. Needless to say his left wing almost went right through my windshield. Didn't know there was an airshow that day. Also would have been a bit difficult trying to explain to my dad why his car was destroyed if that had actually happened.
@@hauntedshadowslegacy2826 Yeah, that would suck. Here’s a plane that went into furious battle against flak & hundreds of 109’s, and came out victorious, only for my $1,000 Corolla to be the cause of that gallant plane’s demise.
"needless to say". Actually it was needed. I had assumed you had stopped before looking both ways - and therefore his wing wouldn't have been close to your windshield. Why do people just cross uncontrolled runways and railway tracks without stopping?!
Pilot Kelsey, I appreciate the wisdom and character that you have and that you share. You are a great pilot but more important you are a great man! Thank you for choosing to be the man you are. Blessings to you.
Just some constructive analysis. The first video seems to be related to wind, the aircraft was already unstable during the last 100ft hence the left to right motion of the aileron. The pilot attempted to level the wing before pushing power for the G/A, thats the reason for the hard slam.
Happened to me flying into Taipei on my very first flight 😆 It was really windy and we were just several feet from touching down but luckily we didn't slam into the tarmac like that one in the video.
I actually *haven't* flown commercial all that much, but I have experienced one very late go-around (like, less than 20 feet off the runway). The pilot explained that there was another plane on the runway that couldn't get out of the way in time.
They are rare, actually. Most pilots I've heard say that they do real world go arounds about 2-3 times a year I've seen only one as a plane spotter. DHL 767 was on ILS-Z for 13R at SKBO and went around because they got unstable at 200ft AGL Pretty cool sight
One of the times I flew into YKF, the plane ended up going around 2x then diverted to YYZ. The Issue at YKF was too low of a ceiling to see the runway from fog, then too strong of a tail wind on the attempt from the other direction. It wasn't a big deal because they fueled up a bit at YYZ and flew to YFK from YYZ after the situation cleared up some at YKF. shortest flight I have ever been on in a commercial plane. no sooner after we got liftoff, the pilots said to prepare for landing :P
Just discovered your channel this week. I"m a private pilot, only ever flown single engine aircraft so I'm loving your explanations of airline procedures. Regarding the Cessna that hits the car one thing that really struck me is that the plane doesn't have it's flaps down. With the popularity of STOL competitions now every light plane pilot wants to play bush pilot these days and stop as close to the threshold as possible, but if that's what they're doing they would have full flaps in and a much steeper approach. Maybe they had engine problems and were struggling to make the runway? Jammed flaps maybe? Makes no sense to me. Thanks again for the great informative videos.
A big salute to the photographer of the little plane hitting the SUV. In time honored tradition photog remembered to aim at the ground as soon as there was something to film.
You can! It only really becomes a hassle if you are: A) the problem and no one wants to fly with you or, B) the problem and you don’t want to fly with anyone else. I don’t actually know if there is a limit, when I bid for flights (I am pretty low on the totem pole), I have never run into this issue. One of my first flights I flew on was a had a Captain that was an uncompromising douche, but Kelsey is right, his attention to detail and straight-shooting attitude caught an issue before we took off and I just kinda… respected him more after that, which probably changed my attitude because he likes flying with me now more than a lot of my other colleagues.
It has happened to me once. I was very green FO then and the other chap was a very green captain that was not exactly brilliant. Amazingly we have not flown together, even though this took place a long time ago, and may never happen, since I’m now a few months away to start my captain training. Nevertheless, I learned a LOT from that experience.
I really like your channel. Especially the Viral Debriefs. I know that nervous airline passengers can take seminars to help them get over their fears. A bunch of your videos seem to me would be perfect for such a purpose. When you talked about how Navy pilots are highly skilled, it is also worth mentioning that the types of aircraft designed to land on carriers have some features designed for that task. (Massive beefed-up landing gear. The arresting hook catching wires). Also (I believe) they have other specific procedures like adding throttle at (or just before) touch-down (good landing or not), to help with a possible go-around. I think I also saw a documentary about carrier operations where there were specific crew on the ship, who's task was to watch the flight path of the aircraft as it was coming in (in direct communication with the pilot) to aide with the landing. -Totally understand that the bit about navy pilots was a side-note, and only had a short mention in this video. -After all, only a small fraction of pilots do this kind of flying. Next to no civilians get to be a passenger...
As for the Fire scene. Your looking at multiple injuries, aircraft fuel, vehicle fuel spills, a bunch of debris on the runway that needs to be cleaned before the runway can be opened again for future flights. What a mess and I hope no one was injured.
11:50 During my apprenticeship I had a Journeyman like this. Straight up told me, "There are two ways to do this. MY way and the WRONG way." To be honest, he was VERY good and I learned well from him, then moved on. Unfortunately for him, when you "know everything"... you cannot learn anything new.
I remember when the car and plane hit. The car never stopped, and there was a STOP and a line as you drive passed the runway. It was decided the car was at fault. Even though it doesn't cross the runway, it is very close. There is an airport like that at Kellys Island, OH on Lake Erie. No vehicles over 10 feet high and all vehicles must stop for airplanes crossing their path.
Watching cross traffic at runway boundaries - in early '70s regularly flew into 2800' runway that had a road and railroad tracks at one end and small town at the other [airstrip is now a WalMart, lol] landing a J3 Cub was no problem, landing our Beech Bonanza was tricky getting in and getting out. Navigator definitely paid attention to traffic, ie we always had two of us in plane, one to watch airstrip, one to watch roads. [ours was an older plane, 2650' minimum landing]. Having a mile long airstrip was luxury!
Wish I had video of my flight home from Cuba into Pearson (yyz). I'm not a pilot, just along for the ride. Snowstorm and wind gusts made it interesting, before the first time the pilot decided to spool back up right about the time I would assume wind hit us and thought the plane off axis, once back up in the air, the pilot came on and said we were going to make another attempt and that "it would be a good time to review emergency procedures"..real comforting lol on the second attempt we got on the ground, but not before being sideways for a second before hitting the tarmac, then sliding all over the same runway. Thought maybe I was just a wuss for being scared, then I saw the emergency vehicles ready to go, luckily they were not needed. We were safe and sound on the ground, on exiting the plane I thanked the pilots (as I always do) and noticed the visible and audible stress from the crew. Waiting for our bags we saw our flight attendants exiting visibly choking back tears and giving eachother lots of hugs. Really cool to experience the expertise of a flight crew in a not so great situation, next time though...I'd rather experience it on UA-cam lol
I loved my first go around 😂 I was landing Leeds Bradford (England, highest airport, short runway, ex RAF base basically on top of a mountain) the visibility was ridiculous. Couldn’t see the end of the wings for fog. This airport is notorious for crosswinds and fog. We came in, barely touched the main gears down and bam TOGA. People were panicking, I was like wow yes my first commercial passenger go around! 😂 That feeling of the full power was awesome. We circled a while and came back in when visibility was a little better (could almost see the end of the wings this time 😂).
What you said about "people in general" is so, so true - even in my IT business. You learn more about other persons by the questions they ask and not their bold statements. But in my business this is just annoying or costs only time and/or money. And lot's of guys saying "I'm responsible for..." _peanuts_ and the end! *My full respect and thanks to all the great pilots/captains/ATCs/other staff out there beeing responsible for the "souls" onboard to get down safely!* Love your videos, liked! Best regards, Stefan
I had an instructor who was a Marine pilot. YOU CALL THAT A TURN?!?! USE SOME RUDDER, BOY! THEY’RE PUKING IN THE BACK RIGHT NOW! I learned more from him than any other instructor.
About "landing on the numbers"; the shortest landing I've experienced was in a STOL ultralight. The pilot put the wheels down right on the end of the tarmac and turned off into the taxiway that aircraft normally enter the runway from. I'm not sure how short it was, but maybe as little as 100m.
I remember my instructor saying at the end of my Airbus type rating; “remember how bad you flew today. One day, when you become a captain, you’ll fly with a new FO and his handling wouldn’t be very good, never forget that you were once just as bad, maybe even worse.” Wise words from a wise man.
As time goes on sometimes we forget our early years. We all start out a nube. Great comment.
ya its good to always stay humble for sure, always someone who knows more always something new to learn
Real ego booster 😂
Same in the police world also. The command staff frequent forget where they started and how crappy they were....and most of them, still are, lol
Lame
Kelsey, I was a firefighter in northern California at a small uncontrolled county airport. I have to tell you that when we were doing fire drills on the airport, one of the hardest things to get the volunteers to do was to look for planes......ON the runway! Invariably they would be searching the sky for planes, and not one landing or taxing. I'm not surprised that the driver didn't see the plane.
6:09 This happened in Roanoke, Texas. The road in question isn't actually part of the airport itself, it's privately owned. According to USA Today, the airport has tried to buy the road from the owner, but they refused. The owner of the road *did* paint the word "STOP" on the road, but there was no actual stop sign. The pilot of the plane, William Davis, was a student pilot doing his solo cross-country. He temporarily halted his training after this incident, but would later return to aviation and get his license. The runway now has a displaced threshold.
(Edit: It wasn't the pilot's first solo, he was doing his required solo cross-country.)
(Edit 2: He didn't give up permanently.)
Good report!
Thanks for sharing this piece of background knowledge.
That’s too bad
Is this Northwest Regional Airport? That's what shows up of Google Maps. I can't imagine they built a fairly large airport without securing property around the airport.
The way I see it, that private owner should pay for that former-student-pilot's expenses. Unless that private owner has a damn good reason to keep the road, keeping it private makes it a threat to the airport. Had something gone just a little bit worse, that former student could've been seriously injured. Yes, he was flying fairly low on approach, but he was still on-track to land ON the runway. The only reason he didn't land safely was because of that vehicle. So either the runway gets extended in the other direction to restore it to its full operational length (at the expense of that private owner), or the owner should be compelled to sell the road. Snobby prick needs to get off his high-horse.
I love how you prove a saying I love, 'The difference between a professional and an amateur is the pro has already made the mistakes before and knows how to fix them.'
I must say, having a captain that is yelling at his first officer, is a major safety concern... If I remember correctly, there have been crashes, because of this. You create an enviroment where the first officer might be apprehensive to tell the captain he is making a crucial mistake. And captains are still ppl to, that still are able to make mistakes....
I have to agree. I had a maths teacher like this. Screwed me up forever. But, seriously, I get what you're saying: that behaviour does no-one any favours. it's no kind of mentoring at all.
Agreed. I had a captain that treated his FO's as idiots. Had he not single piloted the ship and abused his crews, he would have been pretty good.
Facsimile
Putting domineering captains with junior pilots is never gonna work. Gonna make a hostile work environment. Couple of big examples: northwest airlink flight 5719 and Korean air flight 801.
Yes, steep authority gradients have killed:(
Kelsey - you made some wrong suppositions about the collision of the two Cessna 182 skydiver planes. I was at one time an avid jumper. Most of my jumps were made from the venerable Cessna 182. We ALWAYS pulled back throttle during jump run. Pilot pulls back power - 'DOOR!' is loudly announced (the modified skydiving door is hinged across the top and the latch is at the bottom) the door flies up and open - pressure differential causes the door to 'fly' up against the underside of the wing - then the jumpers all try to climb out in a staging position before all jumping together. During that staging maneuver the plane is going to be in a shallow descent to maintain airspeed and the engine is back to near idle. The STC for those doors limits it's operation to BELOW 80kts (or something like that) and prop blast at throttle would also tend to blow the jumpers off the 'crotch' (the area you see them sitting on the wing strut).
Water is a liquid, right? Trying to deal with 100mph horizontal air is a lot like trying to cross rapids in a fast moving stream. The force is impressive. Once just for fun - I had our pilot allow me to climb out, hang on to the strut while he closed the door and then throttle up while I TRIED to hang on. It didn't take long before I lost my grip. :)
True story: I used to be a "road warrior" in Southern California: one of those people that would commute 60 miles or more from the Antelope Valley to the greater Los Angeles area. One time I was coming home really late from work (I worked near LAX). It was after dark, the weather was bad, and the cloud layer was very low, so that once I got past Santa Clarita it was actually fog conditions going up the 14 freeway northbound. Now about 12 miles northeast of Santa Clarita is a little airport at a place called Agua Dulce, for light planes (Cessnas, Pipers, etc.). So I was past the Soledad Canyon exit and heading up the hill, into a thick fog layer. Suddenly out of the fog I see coming straight at me a small plane. It must have taken off from Agua Dulce and right into a fog bank, and decided to try to follow the freeway southwest toward the coast. It pulled up just as it got near me and I could hear its engine and feel the car shake from it passing by me. One of the scariest moments of my life! No idea what happened to that plane or the pilot.
Probably a Situation Brown
Probably wanted to land in emergency on the road or didn't realize how close he was to the ground and did a go around.
@@sharoncassell5273 It was a major L.A. freeway full of rush-hour road warriors. And he was going the wrong way! He needed to pick a better spot lol
I actually occasionally fly the Cessna that hit the car while on final. I was a student pilot and the plane showed up as a new plane at my flying club. The next week, my CFI is showing me how to go through all the maintenance records on that particular plane to ascertain airworthiness. We're going through the records and see all these receipts and records and we're both saying, "boy, this plane has gotten a LOT of work". A few days later, my CFI tells me, "I found out about that plane" and pointed me to the youTube of this collision, and the tail number in the video and the maintenance records matched up.
The news reports in the original youTube said the student pilot was giving up on flying, so I was glad to hear from the comments on you that he'd gotten back into the cockpit after all.
what field was that exactly? N number?
@@FLYSUBS89 Somewhere in TX; not sure. Tail number from the original video (search plane hits car) is N985GE. That tail # has been changed since then.
Dude, that’s a wild experience! 👍
Kelsey, you have great experience and wisdom combined with a fine attitude, great assets for a pilot I would trust. I love your humor. Anyone flying with Kelsey should be sure to bring some tasty snacks to stave off any chance of Kelsey's hunger taking over ! LOL.
ya the threat of hangry is very real over here haha
Kelsey should let us know what he likes so we can make certain he's well supplied.
@@74gear You don’t need the goofy faces unless you need the
$$$, promote your videos on your reputation and the content, don’t play the “anything for views” game , same message went to Petter.
@@The_Original_forresttrump u mad for them making good aviation content?
@@The_Original_forresttrump go make videos for your 3 subscribers, let me know how it goes.
I don't agree on two points, visibility and hitting the bars: A Cessna that close to the car can't see it because it's under the nose. It's the same reason you yell "clear prop" before starting the engine, because you can't see what's below the cowling. The left seat PIC had little hope of seeing that car. Many small airports that don't have 1000 foot marks because they are less than 2000 feet long (google "list of shortest runways", I've landed at a few of them). Many small airports count on you hitting the numbers and using every available foot of runway (some have dirt "extensions" on each end, primarily for TO, but...). Landing "in the dirt" in a small airport without end-lights/antennas likely won't result in damage (forget failing the checkride; remember the "solely responsible for plane and passenger" thing), but overrunning the end is a whole different story. Small, piston engine planes, uncontrolled airports, short runways (often at altitude), single pilot, ... is a different world.
On the Best Captain portion of the video you couldn't be more correct. I think this goes with any line of work but your advice is spot on. I worked as a Professional Firefighter for 28 years on one of the busiest Truck Companies in the South. We averaged 3500 runs a year so we were busy all the time. I got promoted to Captain at 10 years. I remember when I came out #3 on the promotional test that I would be promoted within that year. So I started thinking "what kind of leader do I want to be?". I decided that I would take the best qualities of the people that I enjoyed working for and put the experience that they passed on to me whether it was how to good leader or they were able to remain calm and collected in a time of crisis. I also decided that I would take the same approach with those Captains that I did not enjoy working for or that I didn't respect (it happens in every line of work) and make sure that I didn't incorporate their behavior into my style of leadership.
I know that this is an aviation video but what you said is spot on. I've been in that same situation while driving before I was promoted to Captain and even though it is stressful listening to someone yelling at you at the time, it is your responsibility to get the apparatus to the scene safely. Worry about what was said after you complete your job. Very good advice you gave in this situation. It applies to many different lines of work and I kind of laughed along with you as the Captain was throwing his fit. If you work in any line of work you will run across people like this. But when it involves the safety of the equipment, safety of the passengers (in this case), or getting to a fire scene safely, that falls on you. The disagreement can come later.
I really enjoy your videos. I've learned a lot from them. Keep up the good work and stay safe my friend.
I had a fair few teachers in school who would raise their voice at students, and generally I didn't like it. There is only one exception to this. One of the only teachers I ever truly respected in school was my high school band director, who was definitely a shouter. However, he never demeaned or belittled students, he rarely directed it at specific students, and when he did direct it at specific students, there was usually some sort of major concern. During marching season, he also had to shout over 200-odd teenagers, outdoors, and those acoustics are different from classrooms. He was certainly rough around the edges, but he genuinely cared about us. He was also one of the few teachers I had who looked past my disabilities.
I had teachers who were far quieter, but who I came to hate very much. It's one of those things that's hard to explain, but I think it comes down to this: My band director saw us differently from other teachers. Other teachers saw us as lacking in capacity and needing to be taught how the world works. He saw us as capable people who wanted to become better, and especially with band, that's usually true. I would be there, assuming I was physically well, every day at 7:00 a.m. on that (usually) wet, (more into September and October) cold, and quite honestly foul-smelling practice field (or the band room, after marching season, which would only smell like the field into mid-October) because I loved band. Technically we didn't have to be at school until 8:00 a.m., but we signed up for band knowing full well we'd be losing out on sleep, working hard, occasionally risking trench foot, and often getting very near frostbite.
The point is, if you can't show your student(s) you care, in school or the air, you shouldn't yell.
You've got great insight to acknowledge that you learn from both types of interactions, the positive ones with people as well as the negative ones. And again, you are smart to avoid confrontation when it could cause a dangerous situation. Handling a problematic situation with calm logic instead of heated emotion is definitely preferable, and a sign of your maturity. I'm 71; I try to handle things in a mature manner, because I often did not when I was younger and often unbalanced! I always enjoy your videos, thanks so much!
What I heard you say from 15:40 about learning just as much from a bad instructor/captain as from a good one really struck me. It applies to many other disciplines, too.
Thanks for all these awesome videos, and all the effort you put in!
its always a good time when Kelsey uploads
glad you are enjoying the videos RBNK!
@@74gear one of my boys (I have seven) is an FO with a regional right now… began training in late 2017. Been a captain and asst. chief pilot at a small airline …. Moving up faster than I expected…..Anyhow, watching your channel has helped me understand what he does - thanks.
This is about the best thing on UA-cam 👍🏻
Another video, another week without my flight school lessons winding up on Viral Debrief!
Im not a pilot. I hope to be one day when I can afford to stay current. I found you channel on accident and was attracted by a funny clip. I stay interested in your channel not only because of the great videos, but more importantly because your lessons of leadership and patience are super valuable for even non-aviation life. You are a very wise and smart dude.
Kelsey, your videos continue to be an inspiration to me, an EFL (English as a Foreign Language) instructor in Japan, passionate about his work. They have been helping me re-frame my mindset and re-evaluate my delivery in my profession of choice, with me as the pilot in control, the classroom as my plane, and the students as my passengers for which, through my dedication and training, I am responsible and striving to offer a safe and pleasant journey and a smooth landing. Thank you!
thank you glad you are finding it helpful. I always enjoy my time in Japan, very safe and clean!
I love the fact that UA-cam channels by pilots, accident investigators, ATC transcribers etc now make so much learning material freely available! Must be an awesome resource for instructors and student fliers... 😊
@@anna_in_aotearoa3166 TV
Really good information Kelsey. I learnt to fly on a short runway (3000 feet). I was also taught to land on the numbers. It stems more from the fact that the owner of the FBO wanted to save some money on brake pads. He told us to use aerodynamic braking instead of using at all until necessary. This really puts things into perspective. Of course landing a Cessna 414 needed to come in shallow and land on the threshold since he took up the whole runway to land.
414 has a landing distance of 3100' [rounded from 3050] .. infact... you should be insisting on a grass landing😂
Kelsey seems a mature, well adjusted person with a good sense of humour.
its all a big act, he's still a kid at heart
@@74gear actually the best kid ever ;) It's visible on the smile ;)
@@74gear you're nice guy regardless and relatable personality (for simple folk) I think is very important on YT - unless you aim for fanbase of edgy kids 😂
@@74gear If you can be a big kid but know when not to get angry (and a few other things), you're living pretty well in my books! :D
Dunno about mature but I'll give you the rest. 🤣
Hey Kelsey. I don’t think I’ll ever fly, but I’m student teaching in the Spring. Your advice helps me to realize if I get a combative teacher to work with, there’s always something to be learned, some things to emulate, and some things not to do if I become the teacher that has a student learning under me. Thanks!
Good points! I have often thought that the "runway behind you is good for nothing" saying is only true so far. There's a reason that airlines use the 1000 ft markers.
Great video, thanks kelsey.
dude, i cherish you sharing mistakes you made in flight school and stuff. most people keep that stuff a secret and it's a huge help to see pilots people look up to sharing mistakes they made
Kelsey! How old was the first video (hard landing/go around)? There was a Concorde out on the tarmac in the background right when the tires hit? Anyway, keep it going im loving the commentary.
Your advice about captains with "incompatible personalities" is just good life advice in general. 74 Gear, more than the sum of its parts.
I have lived in a mixed civilian/military airport town and I think it took about 50 years before they put up a warning light/stop sign on the dirt road just beneath the end of the flightline. We all thought it was odd as we have always had our attention to the strip because so many planes landing all the time. Some even petitioned to get it removed again as they claimed that the light and sign gave a false sense of security. I kind of agreed in some cases but it was also a help as some planes wasn’t as visible from the road as others. If your car wasn’t heavy enough there’s a chance you could be blown off the road. Just a small anecdote. Thanks for reading all this.
Kelsey was right on the numbers (no pun intended) as to the runway not being particularly short on the collision between the Cessna and the SUV, and no reason for the Cessna to come in this low. This was a student pilot on a solo flight in Northwest Regional (52F), Roanoke TX. The runway is 3,500'. Currently it has a displaced threshold, possibly as a result of the accident in question (I'm not sure whether it had a displaced threshold at the time).
⬆️ good info. However, the black 4-wheel could have, should have seen the small plane out their own **'DRIVERS' SIDE WINDOW** and ***STOPPED SOONER!!!!**
whats the pun? Do you even know what a pun is?
@@stevenr8606 Yeah, it was neither side's proudest moment. The two people at the SUV said they didn't realize anything was coming until the crash as airplane parts were falling around them.
@@Legendary-zh9hd whoosh!
@@stevenr8606 If pilots can get tunnel vision and not notice that they're about to hit a car, it's certainly also easy for people in cars to not be looking upwards. The driver knows they're near an airport (probably) but the pilot can see that there's a road there. Pilot doesn't expect actual traffic to be on a road that close to the runway, driver doesn't expect planes to come in so unnecessarily low. The real problem here is whoever decided the order of actions should be step one, commit to putting a runway here, step two, see if we can acquire this other piece of land which will be a problem for our runway.
I'm a retired 767 captain and currently a Sim instrucor. I recently went through training for a 737 type so I can instruct on that also. My sim partner was and FAA guy getting his type; at one point while I was in the left seat and he was doin support, he said I was the "Quintesential Airline Captain" I told him I wasn't sure if it was meant as a compliment or a criticism, but I chose to take it as a compliment (him being the FAA and all). The only FO's I ever got mad at were the ones that didn't want to learn (luckily, even though they are out there, they are not in the majority). Keep up the excellent work Kelsey!!!!
“You should have some common sense while driving…” oh Kelsey if only.
Things I’ve learned about Kelsey after several weeks of binging 74Gear. Kelsey loves free breakfast. Kelsey values snacks. Kelsey is probably the kindest pilot I’ve ever seen.
Thank you Kelsey for taking the time to break these vids down.
I’m 60- wondering if I am too old to become a pilot?
One of the best officers I ever sailed with on Fast Craft was a First Officer and also the lead TO. He had quite a firey temper and would go off at times BUT he would always make a point of coming back to the person he went off at and sit down to calmly go back over what the issue was to make sure the point wasn't lost because of his hot head. He also NEVER went off like that during ship operations. He'd stow it, pop off after ships tied up, go cool off then come back and explain. If someone's screwing up a berthing the last thing you want is to jump scare them.
But there is a reason for a student to land right on the numbers: because your CFI told you to keep practicing soft- and short-field even after reaching cross-country stage. During my private checkride, one of the DPE's instructions was "I want you to land and get stopped easily before that stripe, and try for half of that if you're able to do so safely." The stripe was at 1,000 feet. "Not every runway is dry and 6,000 feet long, and you should learn it here before going to a short grass field somewhere," my CFI said.
Sadly a friend of mine lost his life hitting a vehicle in a plane just like that. He was doing a low-pass flyby during an exhibition at a small airfield and clipped the top of a parked van. Unfortunately it flipped the plane and he was killed in the crash. Glad the pilot was okay in this instance.
More proof that the snobby, entitled owner of that private road in the clip should be compelled to sell the damn thing. Condolences for your friend. I hope regulations come out to prevent private road ownership that close to runways in the near future.
@@hauntedshadowslegacy2826 It's fixed now, no?
@@hauntedshadowslegacy2826 Or maybe snobby, entititled airstrip owners should find places to put their fields that don't have roads running beside them?
ya thats the sad part about that type of flying there is a lot more risk
@@jamiegagnon6390 I'm not sure the irony is registering there... A road is probably one of the least disruptive uses of land in this case. Could be a tree line, a manure pile, or a lake....
One of the best channels I've ever subbed too
For my commercial flight test my examiner told me to put it down on the numbers, but it wasn't a runway with a road crossing at the threshold of course, and he was just wanting to test my skill legitimately (I put it down precisely on the numbers btw and the examiner actually said "that was excellent" which I have since gathered is a rare complement during a flight test and one I needed as he wasn't quite so enthralled with my altitude maintainence during steep turns earlier in the test :-)
For my commercial checkride the examiner wanted me to put it down right on the 1000' markers, not an inch before and no more than 200' after. The ACS doesn't specify which point to choose, it just says "specified point".
@@talreichert my examiner was 90 years old at the time, and he was a flight instructor (not a pilot an instructor) in World War 2.
@@homomorphic That's an old timer all right! I took my PPL ASEL, IR and CPL ASEL all with the same DPE, he flew F-4 (I *think* in Vietnam) and then flew cargo for some years. Great guy. My CPL AMEL I took elsewhere, so a different DPE.
@@talreichert Congratulations! You had today’s highest acronym/initialism density for this video’s comments!
@@HylanderSB lol
You're right... you should tell them to their face, but what I would expect is that the captain would get out ahead of the criticism and write the report on the pilot he's abusing.
You are absolutely correct on „landing on the number“, however we do have fields here that are just 1500ft long and you need to do very precise landings.
Thanks a lot Kelsey, very interesting.
This was in North Texas in 2012 (Northwest Regional Airport, 52F in Roanoke, TX)! We actually talked about this one in an aviation class I was in in high school since it happened so close by (this was maybe 30 minutes drive away at the time). The class consensus at the time was the same as your assessment: plane came in way too low for no reason (looking at a map of the airport, he was actually going to hit about 400 feet before the numbers), but also the car was supposed to stop at the stop sign and ignored it. He was a student pilot, and he gave up flying after this. The pilot and the people in the car all survived; the people in the car only had light injuries. That nosewheel smashed in the driver's side window when it impacted.
Did the suv driver quit driving too? Lucky that no one was seriously hurt.
And it was true at the time, but that interview happened the day after the crash. I felt low and hadn’t had a chance to talk to anyone about what happened,” said Davis. “But after the shock wore off, I realized that I still had a passion to fly. It was my childhood dream.”
Quote source: AOPA article
A corollary to "runway behind you is useless" is "runway you can't reach is even worse".
@Kelsey. Second video is at 52F, just east of KAFW. Pilot was a student pilot on either his second or third solo.
And there is a stop sign there.
They have actually changed where the numbers are to help prevent this from happening again.
You beat me to it. I had flown from there just a couple of weeks before that happened. With a 3500' runway and a 400' offset you'd think they wouldn't have that problem.
@@1OldBuzzard you would think..
I learned to fly from this airport and before my first solo. My CFI showed me this video and told me not to do what they did.
there is a town near me, where there is about 3 feet of gravel between the road and the numbers. big signs on the road to watch for aircraft.
ya sadly a lot of learning in aviation happens off major mistakes like this
@@74gear "smart men learn from their mistakes. Wise men learn from other people's mistakes."
Don't know how old the raging left seater video is, but it's been around a while. Crew Resource Management really didn't become a global standard until the 1990s, albeit it's concepts had been being emphasized in UK, USA & few others for a couple decades prior. My thoughts go back to those instructors & others in left seats who’s careers began well before CRM emphasis. Some old timers (some) seem to be set in their ways & patterns as Kelsey says, “Theyre out there”. Regardless of why or how they became air tyrants, you definitely will learn composure under stress to some degree by flying with them, even if they quit learning to cap their fuses decades earlier. TYVM for another fine video.
I’m a hot air balloon pilot but I love your discussions on pilot decision making and hazardous attitudes. I’d love to take you on a balloon flight sometime if you’re in the Charlotte area!
Go arounds are initially scary, but you're right there is nothing to be worried about. As a passenger I experienced a go around. Coming in to land at Melbourne Airport (Australia) there were some high winds and turbulence coming into Melbourne but it was still safe to land (talked with pilot after, he was so awesome). Then suddenly there were very strong cross wind gusts so pilots decided to go around and try again. I had my young son with me. At first it was scary but I knew that I was in good hands. I stayed calm and kept my son calm. Also the lovely gentleman across the aisle from me talked us through what was happening so my son stayed calm. As a parent travelling with a child I tend to wait for the other passengers to disembark first as it can take me a while. So we got to chat with the pilots for a minute. My son asked what happened and they were patient and gave a quick explanation. He wanted to do it again once he realised everything was perfectly safe. 😅😅😅
Great settling way to explain things. No better reassurance than talking to the pilots themselves.
That first clip looked like a Ryanair Landing 😂😂😂
I used to fly into Aeroflex (12N) in Andover NJ a lot. 1900 foot runway, lakes at both ends, and a road crossing the runway right at the threshold. I was always worried about something like this happening. It was a great place to bring students to teach them what short-field operations were really all about.
Kelsey really dropping some knowledge on this one
Kelsey is my favorite aviation UA-camr. A true professional who I’d be wholly comfortable to fly with, but who also seems realistic and would be cool to have a beer with.
I love your commentary👏🏽👍🏽😻
One note on the Navy landing on a very specific area: They've got someone on the ship observing and telling them to go around if their approach looks bad, and even if it looks perfect, the pilots always follow through prepared for a go around in case they overshoot the cables.
And also, about not landing on the very edge, they usually aim to hook the third of the four cables, for safety margins.
(Apparently it's bad style to be smeared all over the aft hull of the carrier)
Yes, the best approach is to aim for the middle cable and apply full dry thrust as soon as the wheels touch. That way if the hook misses or the wire breaks, the plane can roll through the 1000' or so of the flight deck and go around. I'm not a naval aviator, but I watch any old training videos I can find and read the pilot's manuals for old types.
I've known this channel for some time now, but I think its time I sub
Hey Kelsey, quick question...When the captain says "Positive rate, gear up" do you always answer "Coming up"?
That hint on how to react is pure gold.
Great advice!! The "don't escalate" advice applies to dealing with controllers too. Those guys/gals get very stressed sometimes, best just ignore when they lose their $4!t, get what you need out of them, ignore any bs, and be done with it. If it needs to be dealt with, ask for a phone number and deal with it on the ground.
Don't escalate is pretty solid advice for ANY situation where focus and awareness is a factor. Hard to pay attention to what you're doing if you're losing your shit and screaming at each other. lol
"Please give me your phone number, I have a call to make."
*Uno reverse card*
The Concorde in the background of the first video. Lovely.
I trained at this airport (Roanoke, Texas) and know it well, as well as the accident. Not to defend the pilot who did appear to be coming in a bit low, but it's very tempting to land early in this direction as the runway "was" much shorter (at the time of this accident) and on a downhill slope in that direction. I see some comments about how most people can't believe the airport would have such small acreage, but it is a pretty tight piece of property. They recently were able to acquire some additional land and have completed a runway extension, now at 3500', up from 2500' I believe. Plenty of room to stop, but again that downhill grade while you're skimming into that little valley will make you want to drop in as quick as you can. If you're looking for a challenging landing, try landing this Rwy 17 at 52F sometime while the winds are from the south. Survive that then head to T67 (Hicks) airport for a great bite to eat, mind the car traffic there as well as the taxiway is also the road.
Thank you for that additional information on the "Car Crash" clip.
Kelsey, you say some very wise things in this video. Especially on the subject of communication and yelling at someone. Your way of overcoming crises can also be used in many other situations in life instead of screaming.
You are the born leader.
Next time you land in ATH Greece I would like to meet you personally before you say "V1", "rotate", "positiv range" again and take off.
Greetings from Europe
I'm not a pilot but I love your videos because they explain things so well.
I have been watching many of your videos and now I'm becoming more and more fascinated with airplanes rather than very scared what I used to be 3 weeks ago when I flew. Thank you so much!
I passed my flight test in 1981. In '85 I moved to FL from MN and found an airport to rent from.
The checkout 'CFI' literally screamed at me from taxi to shutdown. He wanted me to touch and go, all the while screaming at me.
I landed, taxied back, and shut down. I realized how expensive flying was and I didn't need the hassle of this moronic attitude.
I paid for the plane rental (15 min) and refused to pay the "instructor" and walked away from aviation.
A bad instructor can ruin a great hobby.
he's probably dead by now. so, have comfort in that fact
I am glad you made the decision to get out this situation. There is no point continuing the lesson if someone is screaming at you.
It's always those tiny guys you have to watch out for. Like those little yippie dogs.
To the FO getting screamed at, "Good decisions come from experience. Experience comes from making bad decisions." - Mark Twain
To the entitled man/child FO segment... the Dunning-Kruger effect comes to mind.
IT IS NECESSARY FOR US TO LEARN FROM OTHERS’ MISTAKES. YOU WILL NOT LIVE LONG ENOUGH TO MAKE THEM ALL YOURSELF.’
- Admiral Hyman G Rickover
Why do I have this feeling that @74gear Kelsey has a nice snack or meal before every video....😂
Regarding the first video, I was a passenger on a commercial jet landing at Buffalo. If you have flown into BUF you know that it can be very windy. This was one of those days. In order to stay lined up whit the runway the flight crew came in with some power to the engines and crabbed in on final all the way until right before they landed. Obviously I could not see the runway from the back but it must have worked. They straighten up and killed the engines but we almost on the ground by then. We hit hard but we made it. I used to live near Buffalo and have flown in and out several times. It was almost always an experience.
I'd like to know where that airport is. If you look in the background a Concorde is parked outside.
Of all the channels I follow I really look forward to yours, nice work.
The advice at 13:22 also applies to farm emergencies. Whatever a farmer yells while a ram has his horns tangled in a fence and is of two minds whether to kill you or himself; or while a ewe is having a difficult delivery and the two little hooves are not presenting themselves, you just zoom in and focus on the actual problem.
And when you're all done, you just might remember what *you* had said as well. And then you both just causally move on :D .
all the while thinking,
"FOOKIN SHEEP"
Ok, I subscribed because of this 14:29. tell them to their face. That's my personal policy and it shows character and integrity. good for you 74 Gear :)
I failed my first attempt at my PPL checkride by touching down just short of my mark on the short field. The DPE was quite apologetic because he had no leeway in judging that.
Basically, the plane floated a bit on my first attempt, and I went around. The second time, I anticipated a bit of float, and it didn't come. Mains touched down about 20 feet short of the line.
My retest was about .4 in the logbook. Nailed it that time.
As a passenger when you notice a go-around you should start chanting: one more time! one more time! and then start cheering.
Where I used to live, there was a road that ran right behind the runway. Before I cross, I always check to make sure planes aren't landing on it because even with a slight displaced threshold, I've seen planes come in really low. Then one day, I was about to cross, I checked my left side to make sure there weren't any planes landing, especially because I heard the sound of a propeller somewhere. Didn't see anything to my left. I looked out my right window and was shocked to see an old vintage warplane doing a low flyby over the runway. Needless to say his left wing almost went right through my windshield. Didn't know there was an airshow that day. Also would have been a bit difficult trying to explain to my dad why his car was destroyed if that had actually happened.
Not only would the car damage have been hard to explain, but vintage airplanes are damn near priceless.
@@hauntedshadowslegacy2826 Yeah, that would suck. Here’s a plane that went into furious battle against flak & hundreds of 109’s, and came out victorious, only for my $1,000 Corolla to be the cause of that gallant plane’s demise.
@@hauntedshadowslegacy2826 Seeing as this is my dad we're talking about here, the damage to the plane would have been the least of his concerns.
@@CaptainKevin Ah, we have similar dads......
"needless to say". Actually it was needed. I had assumed you had stopped before looking both ways - and therefore his wing wouldn't have been close to your windshield.
Why do people just cross uncontrolled runways and railway tracks without stopping?!
Pilot Kelsey, I appreciate the wisdom and character that you have and that you share. You are a great pilot but more important you are a great man! Thank you for choosing to be the man you are. Blessings to you.
Just some constructive analysis. The first video seems to be related to wind, the aircraft was already unstable during the last 100ft hence the left to right motion of the aileron. The pilot attempted to level the wing before pushing power for the G/A, thats the reason for the hard slam.
Great advice, thank you!
What's crazy to me is that I've flown as a passenger a lot in my life and I've never experience a touch and go or go around.
I've only seen one, another plane was too slow getting off the runway
Nor have I. I was expecting it one time when we landed at heathrow and we were flying sideways but the landing ended up as one of the smoothest.
Happened to me flying into Taipei on my very first flight 😆 It was really windy and we were just several feet from touching down but luckily we didn't slam into the tarmac like that one in the video.
I actually *haven't* flown commercial all that much, but I have experienced one very late go-around (like, less than 20 feet off the runway). The pilot explained that there was another plane on the runway that couldn't get out of the way in time.
They are rare, actually. Most pilots I've heard say that they do real world go arounds about 2-3 times a year
I've seen only one as a plane spotter. DHL 767 was on ILS-Z for 13R at SKBO and went around because they got unstable at 200ft AGL
Pretty cool sight
Great segue to those other videos at the end there!
One of the times I flew into YKF, the plane ended up going around 2x then diverted to YYZ. The Issue at YKF was too low of a ceiling to see the runway from fog, then too strong of a tail wind on the attempt from the other direction. It wasn't a big deal because they fueled up a bit at YYZ and flew to YFK from YYZ after the situation cleared up some at YKF. shortest flight I have ever been on in a commercial plane. no sooner after we got liftoff, the pilots said to prepare for landing :P
Just discovered your channel this week. I"m a private pilot, only ever flown single engine aircraft so I'm loving your explanations of airline procedures. Regarding the Cessna that hits the car one thing that really struck me is that the plane doesn't have it's flaps down. With the popularity of STOL competitions now every light plane pilot wants to play bush pilot these days and stop as close to the threshold as possible, but if that's what they're doing they would have full flaps in and a much steeper approach. Maybe they had engine problems and were struggling to make the runway? Jammed flaps maybe? Makes no sense to me. Thanks again for the great informative videos.
A big salute to the photographer of the little plane hitting the SUV. In time honored tradition photog remembered to aim at the ground as soon as there was something to film.
it was the pilot's wife filming.
I like this guy...he makes sense.
Wow, can you really refuse to fly with another pilot? That's got to be a huge hassle for Crew Scheduling.
You can! It only really becomes a hassle if you are: A) the problem and no one wants to fly with you or, B) the problem and you don’t want to fly with anyone else.
I don’t actually know if there is a limit, when I bid for flights (I am pretty low on the totem pole), I have never run into this issue. One of my first flights I flew on was a had a Captain that was an uncompromising douche, but Kelsey is right, his attention to detail and straight-shooting attitude caught an issue before we took off and I just kinda… respected him more after that, which probably changed my attitude because he likes flying with me now more than a lot of my other colleagues.
ya we have a no fly list at every airline, and its less hassle than having a crew there and a plane not moving
@@74gear or their problem becoming an incident or crash.
It has happened to me once. I was very green FO then and the other chap was a very green captain that was not exactly brilliant. Amazingly we have not flown together, even though this took place a long time ago, and may never happen, since I’m now a few months away to start my captain training. Nevertheless, I learned a LOT from that experience.
Humility beats entitlement. Always.
I really like your channel. Especially the Viral Debriefs.
I know that nervous airline passengers can take seminars to help them get over their fears. A bunch of your videos seem to me would be perfect for such a purpose.
When you talked about how Navy pilots are highly skilled, it is also worth mentioning that the types of aircraft designed to land on carriers have some features designed for that task. (Massive beefed-up landing gear. The arresting hook catching wires). Also (I believe) they have other specific procedures like adding throttle at (or just before) touch-down (good landing or not), to help with a possible go-around. I think I also saw a documentary about carrier operations where there were specific crew on the ship, who's task was to watch the flight path of the aircraft as it was coming in (in direct communication with the pilot) to aide with the landing.
-Totally understand that the bit about navy pilots was a side-note, and only had a short mention in this video. -After all, only a small fraction of pilots do this kind of flying. Next to no civilians get to be a passenger...
As for the Fire scene. Your looking at multiple injuries, aircraft fuel, vehicle fuel spills, a bunch of debris on the runway that needs to be cleaned before the runway can be opened again for future flights. What a mess and I hope no one was injured.
11:50 During my apprenticeship I had a Journeyman like this.
Straight up told me, "There are two ways to do this. MY way and the WRONG way."
To be honest, he was VERY good and I learned well from him, then moved on.
Unfortunately for him, when you "know everything"... you cannot learn anything new.
Wisdom
The whole speech you made about good and bad captains etc requires at least one person to act like an adult which is rare these days lol
I remember when the car and plane hit. The car never stopped, and there was a STOP and a line as you drive passed the runway. It was decided the car was at fault. Even though it doesn't cross the runway, it is very close. There is an airport like that at Kellys Island, OH on Lake Erie. No vehicles over 10 feet high and all vehicles must stop for airplanes crossing their path.
0:00 You thought I was gonna let that one slip didn't you Kelsey? "Vibal debrief." Nice one.
Watching cross traffic at runway boundaries - in early '70s regularly flew into 2800' runway that had a road and railroad tracks at one end and small town at the other [airstrip is now a WalMart, lol] landing a J3 Cub was no problem, landing our Beech Bonanza was tricky getting in and getting out. Navigator definitely paid attention to traffic, ie we always had two of us in plane, one to watch airstrip, one to watch roads. [ours was an older plane, 2650' minimum landing]. Having a mile long airstrip was luxury!
Wish I had video of my flight home from Cuba into Pearson (yyz). I'm not a pilot, just along for the ride. Snowstorm and wind gusts made it interesting, before the first time the pilot decided to spool back up right about the time I would assume wind hit us and thought the plane off axis, once back up in the air, the pilot came on and said we were going to make another attempt and that "it would be a good time to review emergency procedures"..real comforting lol on the second attempt we got on the ground, but not before being sideways for a second before hitting the tarmac, then sliding all over the same runway. Thought maybe I was just a wuss for being scared, then I saw the emergency vehicles ready to go, luckily they were not needed. We were safe and sound on the ground, on exiting the plane I thanked the pilots (as I always do) and noticed the visible and audible stress from the crew. Waiting for our bags we saw our flight attendants exiting visibly choking back tears and giving eachother lots of hugs. Really cool to experience the expertise of a flight crew in a not so great situation, next time though...I'd rather experience it on UA-cam lol
I loved my first go around 😂
I was landing Leeds Bradford (England, highest airport, short runway, ex RAF base basically on top of a mountain) the visibility was ridiculous. Couldn’t see the end of the wings for fog.
This airport is notorious for crosswinds and fog.
We came in, barely touched the main gears down and bam TOGA.
People were panicking, I was like wow yes my first commercial passenger go around! 😂
That feeling of the full power was awesome.
We circled a while and came back in when visibility was a little better (could almost see the end of the wings this time 😂).
Kelsey you have great experience and wisdom combined with a fine attitude great job
Anyone else saw the Concorde parked in the first video?
yes at 3:52, looks like one.
What you said about "people in general" is so, so true - even in my IT business. You learn more about other persons by the questions they ask and not their bold statements.
But in my business this is just annoying or costs only time and/or money. And lot's of guys saying "I'm responsible for..." _peanuts_ and the end!
*My full respect and thanks to all the great pilots/captains/ATCs/other staff out there beeing responsible for the "souls" onboard to get down safely!* Love your videos, liked! Best regards, Stefan
At the 1 million mark, let's see video of your first solo before you became an airline pilot
Did they have cell phone with cameras 35 years ago?
"You're breaking the plane, Sami"
So what did we learn?
If your a pilot with kelsey have a Mars bar in your flight bag. Throw it at him when the angry vein starts throbbing.
My experience is that most people can need a mars bar when irate.
I had an instructor who was a Marine pilot. YOU CALL THAT A TURN?!?! USE SOME RUDDER, BOY! THEY’RE PUKING IN THE BACK RIGHT NOW! I learned more from him than any other instructor.
About "landing on the numbers"; the shortest landing I've experienced was in a STOL ultralight. The pilot put the wheels down right on the end of the tarmac and turned off into the taxiway that aircraft normally enter the runway from. I'm not sure how short it was, but maybe as little as 100m.