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Mixing With Mike Mixing Tip: BD Keyed Bass Compression
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- Опубліковано 14 вер 2015
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Thanks Mike! Tried this using the SSL bus comp plugin and just like you said the 30ms attack gives it that instant good sound. The way everyone else explains it made me think a fast attack was what i was looking for. Youre the only one that explains it this way. Thanks again! You are the best!!!
Very good demonstration for Sidechain technic! But the way Mike likes is the opposite of the EDM trends. EDM's most important is the Kick that dominates everything. Mike is one of the best engineers I have ever seen in Youbute. He taught us many many very decent, very delicacy technics to Mixing. Thank Mike.
Great video
Wonderful - thanks for your excellent videos. I had been doing this the wrong way. Now i understand - best explanation i have seen.
+dhssib Cheers!
Perfect example,just perfect !! Great stuff,love it!!! Learning this is just beginning to multitudes of ideas. YA-FREAKIN HOO!!
It's such a subtle thing, but it's that little bit of extra knowledge that has been improving all my mixes recently.
Would there be any advantage to using the H-Comp as your compressor for this purpose, and using its ability to sync the release time with the tempo of the project..? I've been meaning to try it but I keep forgetting 'cos there's so much else to do.
+kye903 Hey Kye903,
I'm not sure there is an advantage other than the fact that you don't have to convert the BPM to Milliseconds in musical timings. I like the H-Comp a lot, great compressor!
Cheers!
Mike
Mike! I cant hear the difference! What i should listen for? I know how fast atack and release times react to the sound. But this example is too transparent. i had listened to it for 4 -5 times & still i cant hear the difference..... do i need a subwoofer?
+Kay V ™ Hi Kay V,
The difference should be felt more than heard. When you listen, try to notice the position of the bass and kick in the 3d sound field. Not just left and right, but also up-down and front-back. When the S/C is in, you should notice that the kick and bass drop lower on the speakers. This creates space for other instruments to occupy and come through more clearly.
Another approach would be to focus on everything else in the mix other than the bass and kick and notice what happens there.
Cheers!
Mike
with the slow attack doesnt the transients of bass and kick drum clash and create too much LOW END energy ?
+Kay V ™ No, because low frequency energy is more of a sustain thing than a transient thing. This is do to the physical wavelength as it transmits in air. The Mud comes from the combination of the low frequency sustain energy of both the kick and bass combined. Hope this makes sense...
Cheers!
Mike
+Michael White I love your videos .. These all are GOLD! :D & thanx for replyin & your time.
Mike, great video! Wondering if we could use the SC eq/filter on some of the compressors to our advantage in that case? Like filtering all the HF information, so compressor hears only the sustain part of the BD? Then we probably should use 0 attack or low'ish attack time?
+overbe Hi overbe,
In this case, you might be able to get that to work because it is programmed and the levels are consistent. In general, I find it much more difficult to set a consistent threshold to the sustain portion of the waveform when cutting high freqs from the s/c. I have been getting more into multiband s/c processing for this process and will be shooting a video on it soon.
Cheers!
Mike
Michael White thanks for the answer, agree with you that MB is much more efficient method in this case. Btw did you try using TrackSpacer? It's probably even better than multiband compressor for this purpose.
Ah yes, TrackSpacer! I forgot about that one. Could be a good plugin of the week.
Cheers!
Mike
Michael White awesome! waiting for video already:)
Michael White Forgot to mention one more plugin: MSpectralDynamics. Imho this plugin is a beast and i'm pretty sure you could find many uses for it. Hope one day to see video from you, as atm there is pretty much none. And developer is very friendly, pretty sure he would provide license for your review. Cheers.
Great video! However I'm afraid I'm not agreeing with you on this one Mike, especially if it comes to mixing urban genres (like that mix session you loaded up).
The main challenge behind mixing the kick & bass tracks focuses on creating some sort of contrast between the two. What you'd rather want to achieve is some form of separation between the kick drum and the bass, and that separation can only ever be a dynamic-based one (put simply : one track being louder than the other either across the whole frequency spectrum, or across a specific fraction of it).
Because your bassline would usually be playing most of the time, whereas your transient kick drum would only punch in and out every now and then, you need to approach that dynamic contrast by factoring in the time domain : and that's exactly why side-chain compression would help you achieve greater results than just setting static gain faders.
For this reason, your attack time should be short enough to move the bass out of the way when the transient of the BD kicks in (that transient carries the dynamic impact of the BD), and adjust the release time so the gain reduction resets as soon as it is no longer needed for that said dynamic contrast. Because our ears can't make sense of too much low end information, they will hear & feel the contrast, yet while nonetheless grasping at the sustain of any bass note played in-sync with the BD.
All in all, that's what I learnt from my years of mixing hip hop. And I should add that reference tracks really come handy when dealing with that BD & Bass conflict, as the contrast you should be going for heavily relies not so much on what you hear but on what your feel. Hence reference tracks, for maximum objectivity as regards your overall balance of the kick & bass tracks and your attack/release times settings.
+Tax Money Hey Tax Money,
Thanks for the feedback! Of course every production and style is going to vary in degrees of how heavily the process is applied but perhaps I could have explained this better in terms of why the slow attack is more beneficial.
I think what you are talking about is an effect which is meant to be heard rather than felt. By using the slow attack you are not making the track muddy of you do it right. Low frequency content is a VERY minor component of transient information particularly in the first 30 ms or so. Because of the nature of the length of low frequencies, it is at least 95% sustain energy. If I turned this into a gate where only the first 30ms was allowed through, I guarantee you the mix would not be muddy or have too much low end. Everything with this process is after the transient area and how the sustain of the kick and bass are weaved together.
You can use a fast attack on the compressor, but then you lose the ability to pulse the low frequency energy of the bass for that short burst and I think lose the subtle impact that adds to the energy of the kick.
All this said, I don't think your approach is necessarily 'wrong' if you are getting the results you want. I have just never found it to be better than the slow attack.
Cheers!
Mike
+Michael White Hey Mike, yes, I understand your point. Well, that "pulse" effect you mentioned is exactly what I am going for, and in my experience it is really easy to lose your (mix balanced) kick drum, should it hit along with a (mix balanced) bass instrument (that's generally speaking, it can naturally varies a great deal depending on things like the key being played by that bass instrument when the kick hits). You'd get yourself in that scenario where they both sound great (in the mix context) when the other one is muted, but then the energy of the kick drum gets lost when you bring up the bass instrument track. You could move the BD fader up, but by the time its "pulse / impact" finally competes against the bass instrument, it already objectively sounds too loud against the other tracks of the mix.
In that lose-lose scenario, fast attack side-chain compression may be the safest route to regain that low end / low-mid energy. Because the kick drum is a percussive sound, it will always be dynamically louder than the bass instrument (as your peak meter should point out, much to your mastering limiter discontent!), as that dynamic gap is what provides it with its percussive impact.
So, letting the bass instrument be when the transient of the BD hits, means narrowing the dynamic gap against the bass instrument and therefore softening the BD impact (for instance, what could be an 8db gap, now only is a 3db one).
Anyway, I will have a closer look at your slow-attack technique. I may indeed have dismissed it before granting it enough trials and errors. I've also recently upgraded my monitoring to a 2.1 sealed cabinet setup, so I may need to review my habits in light of my new hearing abilities !
+Michael White +Tax Money
you both made valid points. I feel with what Mike is demonstrating here is best for that particular type of base..which is more of a pluck bass; sharp hits with little sustain needed to be effective. Works with funky house tracks like this beat. With the short attack and long release I feel you get more of a sustained full tight sound used in trap music and EDM for 808s etc. Cheers! Mike your the man!
Thanks Rob!