The answer is: Kinda. VR makes you able to be more precise in your driving, which makes you faster, as you can drive nearer to your opponents, know your place on the track better and therefore cut the corners and hit the apexes where it's best. As somebody who's done triples and VR, I prefer VR by far (And Elite Dangerous looks impressive on VR, and I'm more accurate on Payday 2, and Beat Saber, and...)
I would love to be able to compare VR and monitor in a racing situation with opponents and more of an 'improvised driving' situation as opposed to just hotlaps but it's so incredibly hard to create the same situation in two sessions and press play. One little AI move different and the butterfly effect kicks in and everything after that is compounded. That said, I do personally prefer VR but wouldn't mind giving triples a go one day 🤔 also, Elite Dangerous is awesome! Haven't played it for a long time now, but that's a world I can get lost in for days at a time. Maybe that's why I stopped 😅
You nailed it with your thoughts on immersion in VR. I don't really care if I'm a bit slower or faster than on the monitor, you can't beat the immersion factor. I just need something with a wider FOV than the CV1 now... and a new PC to power it!
Nothing comes close to the feeling you get in VR, it seriously doesn't. Well...maybe the real thing 🤣 but only a fortunate few of us actually get to experience that. Many people here in the comments have touched on it but it'll be fascinating to see what tech comes out in the next few years, both in terms of headsets and GPU/CPUs...so many graphics detail settings are turned right down at the moment but the thought of being able to crank it up and also keep the frames...oh my 🤤
That was a super interesting video with a result I didn't really expect. I wrote you a comment some months ago about the same topic but on a different video and my expectation was that you will be faster in any sim on a monitor. But now that I think about it and even had a first-hand experience with AMS1 I can only wholeheartedly agree with you. Going back from VR to a flat screen is like learning how to drive again. You can't just go back and expect to be fast, I mean even the tracks look different. The corner markers and brake points will still be on the same spot but the surroundings are so different due to the forced perspective and the narrow field of view. If you're so used to how it feels to drive the car, it's so completely off to go "back" driving "flat". Guess all the people who say that you can't go back have a deeper meaning than I always thought it had. I always thought this is a really entitled saying but they're not wrong at all. Though my point still stands. If you want to drive for consistency and maximum pace then triples is the way to go. But it will take time getting used to monitors again before you have the pace. I guess that's also the reason why you were faster in ACC because that sim is still new for you and there's still time to find. But VR offers so much more than just depth perception and the ability to look around freely. It just feels so natural to strap your headset on your head and just drive. I cannot emphasise enough how *_natural_* it feels. It feels like you're home, like you are now connected with the car itself and not with the cheaply made G27 in front of you or the monitor, like you know exactly what to do. I can't go back to monitors because driving in VR is not only more fun but also something I fell in love with. And as entitled as it sounds, driving a sim on a monitor is not that fun for me anymore.
It's such a surreal feeling driving on a monitor again after all these years...it's a lot less natural like you say. Because of that I fully expected to be *wayyy* off the pace compared to VR but the results were a big surprise to me too, but I wouldn't go back ever I think, not even to triples if I had the option. The depth perception is invaluable and trumps all other disadvantages of VR in my opinion, also the immersion. I like to think of virtual reality as 'my escape' and when the headset goes on I'm in a different world, as cliche as that sounds. Having the physical inputs mirror the digital ones (i.e. steering wheel and pedals in the same place) just convinces my brain it's all real and away I go...two hours of simracing like it's absolutely nothing 😅
VR was an absolute game changer for me, pun completely intended. Although it's more demanding on your system and more prone to random technical problems, the trade-off of the increased immersion through spatial awareness and depth perception is something you never quite come back from. Perhaps when graphics can be pushed a little further and the headsets have a better resolution it'll be a no brainer, but at the moment it's definitely in the realms of 'enthusiast' as opposed to 'casual'. Well worth it though!
Ahh why thank you Perts 😃 doing this whole UA-cam thing has been one big learning experience. I started out uploading whole races with no commentary or webcam a few years ago and now I'm making videos like this which are mostly, like you say, presenting. Never imagined I'd end up making content like this 🤔
@@DDFRacer At your age I was mostly broke as well and unfortunately still far from rich. Not only for Adelaide I used the ghost function in the TimeTrial, tried their setups and copied their lines, but the 1.0 is coming soon and will wipe the leaderboards anyway. I hope they are on schedule and will bring the 70's F1 cars. The Vintage Gen 2 and the Vee are my favourites, but not with default setup. The Rocco rocks as well and the modern Stockcar drives more like the Super V8 before it got funny.
I hope you keep using the Logitech G29 as you grow! It's nice to have a UA-camr who is a peasant like us, since I don't intend to ever upgrade. It's harder to relate to UA-camrs with expensive setups!
I'll be honest with you Sebastian, I've been thining about an upgrade for a while now 🤔 I've got my eye on some Fanatec v3 inverted pedals, those are a priority, but then most likely a Simetik K2 rig/frame and then a wheelbase and rim lastly. It's not that I don't like my G29, I love it! It's been great and served me well for years, but the pedals are definitely starting to fail (I've recently replaced the potentiometers but they're starting to go again already) so if I'm going to spend money on replacement gear then I might as well make it worthwhile 👍 I do enjoy being the peasant though and sticking it to the guys with fancy gear 🤣 it must be what driving for Minardi felt like (sorry Brodie...)
Nice video Dan, the stats are pretty interesting. Being lucky enough to have triples and vr I think the gap is actually even closer. But the emersion you get in VR is irreplaceable. I do find certain sims easier (probably due to resource) to race on screens - ACC being the obvious one. Interesting how you immediately missed the detail in R3E after coming from a monitor, would love to see them move to dx11 for a better optimised experience. Race room with the graphic caperbility of ams2 or iracing would be a winning formula!
I think with triples and a bit more practice there'd be absolutely nothing in it for laptime, but significantly less enjoyment and trust in the car on a monitor which might make all the difference in a longer race 🤔 I'd absolutely love a VR headset with the resolution of a monitor though, but I feel nervous just thinking about the kind of hardware I'd need to run it 😅
Great comparison Dan, I'd agree there isn't much gap between both and the immersion of VR is a the best thing about it. After that first go of VR I was hooked, slowly though over time the resolution issue of VR wore me down and ended up switching to triples. The other bit that bugged me was FOV, I know you can turn to see stuff in VR, but if you're driving along it's that peripheral vision that is giving you your braking marker. I'm sure both will be sorted in the future, can't wait for the improvements over the next decade when we get two 4k screens next to each other and a 170 degree vision.
Yeah I noticed after a few of the hotlap challenges you switched from VR to monitor and I always meant to ask you what the deal with that was, but turns out you just answered that for me 😉 and be honest mate, you didn't switch to triples, you switched to quads 🤣 I'm still counting that top monitor! You're completely right though, once technology progresses a little more and we can increase the FOV and resolution inside the headset then it'll be a no brainer. Not only for simracing, but for all kinds of VR use in general. I saw a fantastic video the other day of someone who recreated their room 1:1 in Oculus home and could walk around freely with furniture that he could actually sit on in both worlds...in the same way we simracers and feel like we're physically in the car when we're on the wheel and pedals. It's awesome stuff.
Dan, I figured out your problem in Automobilista 2 with the monitor: your field of view (FOV) is wayyyyyy too narrow. Try increasing it for better situational awareness and being able to hit apexes more consistently. Also, as a general rule of thumb on all sims, in my opinion playing with your seat position (height, distance, etc.) is what I find most crucial to being comfortable in the car.
It does look pretty narrow on the screen but I did the math(s 😉) and using the FOV calculator this is what I should have been using apparently. A lot of the sim racing purists say you need to have a 1:1 ratio when using a monitor so you actually see what you would see through that screen in real life and get a proper feel for the car. I might go and play around with it and try again some time just to see 🤔 but you're completely right about feeling comfortable...it's so hard to drive a car you don't trust or can't understand .
I always struggled to sim race on flat screens, as it’s completely alien to driving in real life. VR gives me a sense of distance, space and speed which helps me enjoy sim racing. I personally am faster and more consistent in VR compared to flat screens. A large part of this is that you can look into Apex’s, turn to see where your competitors are and feel that you are in the car. I also learn new tracks far quicker in VR than I ever did on flat screens. Since I switched to VR, I play my sims a lot more now, than I did on flat screen because it’s more immersive and more enjoyable. When I watch esports 99% of them are playing in flat screens or trebles, so I would say if you want to be a pro sim racer that’s the way forward! But for me personally, being a non alien I want total immersion and VR gives me that and total escapism too.
I think for eSports it's much more reliable to race on a monitor, you can't run the risk of a screen freeze or VR glitch which do, unfortunately, seem to be a little too common than is comfortable 😅 you're completely right about the immersion though, it's almost as if VR was designed with simracing in mind! Although Elite Dangerous is pretty good for some escapism too 😉 Thanks for watching and for taking the time out to write that comment anyways 👍 much appreciated as always!
Great comparison and yes, the Super V8 got nasty with the updates, but this might be more accurate with it's spool-not-differential. Ken Block tried this car and was unintentionally spinning the first corner with it, saying, it drives completely different than any other car he tried and need opposing skills from what he was learning all those years. I did some TimeTrial with it and got a 1:19,2 at Adelaide, about 1,5 sec. off the record. The trick is to brake a bit more early (as straight as possible), coast to the very early apex and power-oversteer out of the corner. If you do this mid-apex like with other cars, you get too much rotation because almost all the torque goes to the outside tyre (more grip=more torque). Karts need a similar approach as well if you want to go fast in them. They are just far more forgiving for different approaches because of the weight distribution and no suspension, so no roll and pitch. I was using VR exclusively over 2 years (Oculus CV1, Samsung Odyssey, HTC Cosmos) and bought a Samsung HG90 because the performance in ACC sucked too much. Now i'm using the Samsung for every sim because it's great. It's not just the size, but the curved shape and certainly performance. If you get used to 144 Hz, back to 90 Hz with far lower framerates and worse graphics is just not an option. I also noticed that VR is stressing my eyes quite a bit. Also i'm using a motion/tactile feedback setup and the Cosmos doesn't handle it like it should. My advise: don't switch to anything else than a Rift S or Ultrawide. The Oculus software performs the best with the least amount of shaking. With higher resolutions there are too huge performance hits, both on displays and HMDs. Displays need native resolution and HMDs always want more than that. The Cosmos needs more than 4k resolution both eyes combined or it looks awful.
That's reassuring to know it wasn't just me that thought the car was nasty 😅 and thanks for those tips, next time I try it out I'll keep them in mind. It surprised me also because I recorded that race at Montreal in the same car and didn't have anywhere near the same amount of trouble trying to keep it going in the right direction. Also, I just had a quick look at the HG90 and wow! Not only the specifications, but the price too 😉 something like that might be a little out of my range at the moment, but would certainly be a welcome addition to the setup in the future! With regards to HMDs, again, thank you for the advise 👍 some very useful stuff you've mentioned and, to be honest, I don't think I'd move away from Oculus after having years of faithful service from my CV1. The other alternatives just don't seem to stack up for what I need.
It sounds like it's an obvious statement but it's honestly so true 😅 you can get the same visibility with a good set of triples though, but you don't get the same 'feeling' of being in the car and being able to judge the space around you properly. It definitely feels a lot more natural. Also, thanks for remind me about this video! It's a few years old now and I'd kind of forgotten about it. Might have to revisit the topic now I've got even more experience.
I was definitely faster in VR than on a monitor, as the depth perception was the key ingredient that was missing. I might've gotten quick on a monitor, too, but it felt unintuitive and clunky. So one thing to test would be how quickly do you learn/adapt to a new car/track combo in VR versus monitor. That is a good thing to test, as it is a quality of life feature to get used to new cars and/or tracks, as a beginner.
I think that's a good idea but quite hard to test because you'd want to have the same car and track between monitor and VR... But once you learn the car and track on whichever goes first then you'll already have the advantage for the 2nd run 🤔 I do feel like VR makes it easy to get up to speed much more quickly though and certainly makes it easier to establish reference points!
@@DDFRacer That's true, but you can compare it by alternating VR and monitor between car/track setups and see where there is an easier/quicker improvement and if it transitions to the other medium easily or not. So the comparison would be, how quickly are lap times gained in the first medium and does it translate quickly to the other display option.
It's amazing how much difference it makes, especially in terms of consistency like you say. It feels so much easier to judge distances around the circuit which makes it much easier to hit those marks every time, even with the reduced resolution and clarity when trying to pick out brake markers and landmarks.
new to sim racing and still considering my upgrade path. i'm heavily debating the VR vs triple monitor aspect, to me it's not about being the absolute best or fastest, but more importantly for me is the immersion and fun feeling not the tryharding. this is kinda why i think im leaning towards a VR headset, not only that but also considering it will likely end up cheaper than a triple monitor setup. i equally enjoy doing a race in iracing or ACC as i do cruising around and doing laps at the nordschleife just for the fun of driving. SIM will be as close to i can get to so many super cars and different roads so might as well focus more on the immersion side than the lap times.
Nothing beats VR when it comes to immersing yourself in the experience of going sim racing, so if you have the chance to upgrade then you should definitely take it! Especially for just cruising round, being able to take in the views in 3D and move your head around is special. Just keep in mind you'll need a decent PC to be able to get a solid framerate (for example the CV1 I'm using requires a constant 90) 👍
My pc is pretty powerful but I have a potato GPU. unfortunately got caught out in the gpu shortage and was never able to upgrade. Hopefully prices will drop soon.
Cheers Captain, glad you enjoyed it mate! In this instance, the driving was by far the easiest part 😉 writing the script and thinking of a way to pretty much talk about a spreadsheet for an entire video was the challenge this time! I would have definitely expected the gap to be much bigger and with a little more practice on a monitor, who knows... 🤔
Good Sir, your timing is as impressive as your apexes. I decided just yesterday to get a monitor for my rig. Warm summers being number one reason, but ofc also has to try out Eaglecott Junction lol. The monitor I'm looking at right now is very close to your. An AOC 32" curved. Monitor stands are sold out at GTOmega Racing, so I'll have to build one to begin with :) Thanks for an informative and inspiring video.
I can't say I've ever had a problem with my AOC monitor and it's pretty good for what I need, which is mostly video editing but it does perform well for simracing too. I wouldn't mind a slightly bigger screen so I can get some more side detail, as I find I need to put my monitor right behind the wheel to get a decent FOV. Oh, that's actually really important mate, make sure you set your FOV correctly 👍 and if you have the option of getting a slightly larger screen then I'd recommend it, you won't regret it 😉
@@DDFRacer Ok, you're probably right. I did find an alternative one. Samsung 49" Curved ultra wide 144Hz with 1ms response time. The store will have it in stock later this week. Bit more pricey ofc, but probably better to get what I want than only half way.
Loving this video (still watching). A question came to mind during the ACC runs: do you think there is more lag in VR over the monitor? Could that explain why you were faster on the monitor in ACC? Edited after I finished: very well done! For me, VR wins because it's more fun and more immersive. It's the future of sim racing. Someday, it's just how everyone will do it. Right now it's a bit of an early adopter thing. Can't wait to see what VR will be in the next 3-5 years...
Good question Moonie, and that could be a whole new rabbit hole for me to go down 😂 I honestly can't say I've ever had any issues with input lag...but then again I've never actually gone looking for it. I would expect more lag on a monitor though as I always tend to run vsync or cap the frames at 60. If I don't do that then I get awful stuttering on my Streamlabs recordings as the game is trying to throw too many frames at my encoder and it just gets overloaded...it's a big problem with AMS2 at the moment but Vsync doesn't fix it and there's no frame limiter option in the menu that I can find.
@@DDFRacer Hmm... I use plain old OBS to record AMS2 (and everything else) and things have gone smoothly for me. You might try that as a backup method? But maybe it is too hard to change all your recording stuff over. I've been meaning to try streamlabs, but haven't gotten to that yet...
Really interesting video mate!! Wonder if the ACC numbers had anything to do with performance? ACC is really heavy on the system. Actully thought it would be a bigger difference, especially concistancy! But as you say, nothing beats the immersion you get in VR!!
I had the majority of settings turned right down on ACC in both VR and on the monitor to ensure I didn't have of those performance issues you mention, same for AMS2 also...didn't want to risk anything upsetting the recording once I started my run 😬 and I completely agree about the results, I didn't expect it to be anywhere near as close! The sense of fun, enjoyment, satisfaction...whatever you want to call it, is unbeatable in VR though 😉 although I'd be worried if you said anything otherwise, being the VR champion!
That's a very interesting & enjoyable analysis of the differences, I use VR & head tracking, you might give track IR / Trackhat / Delanclip a go to get something not quite as immersive as VR but better than a flat monitor (in my opionion anyway). One note for me as a big fan of both ACC & AMS2: the combo of Super V8 & Adelaide is a real test, much more demanding than the other combos used, especially the GT3s which are a relative breeze to drive, so I'm not surprised the AMS2 section was the least consistent. Great video though, I'd join you in the Volvo event but I'd likely last about 20 seconds & take several innocent drivers out with me.
I previously used TrackIR, many many years ago, a long time before I used VR actually, and really didn't enjoy the experience at all. Something about it felt really unnatural and when I turned my head to the side to have a look around it made me a little motion sick, which is odd because I've never had any such troubles in VR. I can definitely see the benefits though, especially on a single monitor setup. Looking back at the AMS2 V8 combo I can see I was a long way out of my depth 😅 that car needs a lot of practice! Still, the results are the results and it actually proved to be a meaningful test as not every single car you drive is going to be planted to the road and stable like the GT3s you mentioned.
What a great video, thank you! You definitely deserve more views and subs so keep at it and they will come! I was recently thinking of getting into VR just for sim racing since it look so immersive. The looking ahead and into and beyond the apex is huge and what I'm looking most forward to (well that and the overall immersion). My concerns are motion sickness and reduced screen time vs a monitor. Do you get sick with VR? And do you feel more fatigue after playing vs just with a monitor? Also how is the clarity? For reference my gaming monitor is 27" 1440p with freesync
You're more than welcome, was a pleasure to put this one together! After my recent stint in AMS1 on a monitor and being out of my comfort zone I was really intrigued to see what the difference might be and...yeah, you saw the results 😉 although I wasn't expecting it to be anywhere near as close! Regarding motion sickness and fatigue, I can report neither of those affect me too much, although I know this can vary a lot from person to person so just because I'm fine doesn't mean you will be. I know that's not particularly reassuring but I guess the only way to find out is to give it a try somewhere before you buy, if thats at all possible 👍 however even when I first started racing in VR I didn't have any problems. Games which physically move the viewpoint in an unnatural way tend to affect me the most, such as flying through the air on Google Earth or a pre-scripted character movement in Alien Isolation like opening a door or ducking out the way quickly without me actually ducking in real life. Sitting in a car with a wheel and pedals makes so much sense, once you get past the fact there are no g-forces affecting the body. Regarding fatigue, I actually find racing on a monitor much more tiring! I need to use more concentration and find myself getting distracted a lot more easily. VR feels a lot more natural and shuts you off from the outside world making it easier to keep focus, if you can adjust your headset to be comfortable then you shouldn't even notice it 😎 Clarity is definitely less in VR, but it's not terrible. Details in the distance tend to get lost a little but I'm only using a CV1 which is a few years old now, the newer headsets have better resolutions so you shouldn't notice as much 👍
@@DDFRacer Thank you so much for the detailed reply! Amazon allows returns on the Oculus Rift so I may just take the plunge and see if it's for me. There's also the Oculus Quest but that's seems geared towards mobile gaming and is more expensive. Re: Alien Isolation on VR, I can't imagine how creepy that would be. The game freaks me out just playing on a monitor with headphones in a dark room. 😳
Nice video DDF. I think an interview/discussion with some of the lads that have transitioned from single screen to VR and then to Triples would be interesting. I personally can't do VR but I can say that if you have a chance to play it with a triple monitor setup the experience would be very different as you would be able to look into those blind corners that a single monitor does not allow for. I also use tracking iR at times so I too can look around while driving or sitting in the pits.
Great idea! This video was probably a bit one sided as it was only my perspective, but this is why I love the comments section and Discord etc, the community get stuck in and share their thoughts too. Wouldn't mind trying out a triple screen setup one day to see what it's like and, if I enjoy it, then perhaps I might commit to that as a backup to VR 🤔 have tried track IR previously though and, funnily enough, it made me way sicker/dizzier than VR ever has. How does that one work?! 🤷♂️
@@DDFRacer I'm using it with the facial recognition software that also comes with it & works well once you have tuned it in. I tend to use it more for Elite Dangerous & my Trucking Sims more though as visibility with the triples for racing works fine without it for me.
I think it’s down to preference really. For me in VR I feel I can judge the breaking better, the turning points and it’s easier to battle other cars because you can feel the distance and space, the downside would be awareness as you constantly have to look as your FOV is a lot smaller. Alot of people and professionals don’t use VR because of the FOV they like to be able to see their surroundings on one Peripheral.
Having never tried triples I can only speculate about the advantages but I imagine it would be pretty nice to be able to flick your eyes over to one side and check who's alongside instead of having to move your entire head and take your focus off the road. There are definitely more advanced VR headsets on the market now compared to when I made this video a few years ago but not many of them have a wide FOV, in fact there's a fair few that actually have a narrower view than the CV1 that I'm still using. Aside from that though, I do agree, the depth perception and spatial awareness of driving in VR makes it easier to judge the distances and feel your way around the track more easily. I guess in reality when you're wearing a crash helmet with foam padding you wouldn't see too much in your peripheral vision anyway 😅 that's my excuse at least ha!
Ahh how the turn tables 🤔 I'm sure motion sickness would play a pretty big part in it though! I think VR is a lot more intuitive though, I certainly find it much easier to learn a new circuit in the headset compared to on a monitor 👍
Awesome stuff Dan! I managed to get on a VR rig (with motion too) at an event back in January - takes a bit of getting used to but it's definitely easier - just wish I had the money to get myself one!
Oh wow, that must have been a great experience! I've personally never tried a motion rig and, to be honest, I'd be slightly concerned about the reaction Mrs DDF would have to the noise one of those things puts out 🤣 actually no, you're right...I'd be more concerned about her reaction to the bank balance 😬
Fascinating. I wonder if the consistency with monitor comes down to you being able to get to the limit and stay there due to not having the same level of feel, as opposed to the headset where you're much more comfortable and so naturally then start pushing the car harder and harder? Great experiment anyway. I really want to try a headset one day but I'm a bit worried about what might happen if I like it.
That's a very good point and I think to test the consistency some more would need a lot more practice and a bigger data set, maybe a few hours worth of stints 👍 could be one to keep in mind for next season's VLMC perhaps, with doing a longer race in rF2 on the monitor to test it out! Once you try VR then it's hard to go back though 😉 and I can certainly imagine it'd help you a lot with balancing the type of cars you drive which are always right on the knife edge of grip.
"I really want to try a headset one day but I'm a bit worried about what might happen if I like it." That is exactly what I think since the first usable headsets came out. And I am still hesitant to try it, because I believe I will like it a lot. Anyway, as headsets will get better and more affordable, the day will come. Maybe getting dizzy and sweaty will help us then to return to the real world again... : )
Very nice video, facing the facts and figures whilst being pretty neutral and explaining the whats and whys! I have almost no experience with VR at all, but I'm sure it helps out by looking into the corners and general immersion and awareness of where you are and where the track limits & the opponents are. I use a pretty much square small monitor which is 12 years old, but still works fine as on day one. Only negative point is the very limited vision left and right and the pretty pixelated quality, on small dashes you sometimes can't read the numbers (No I don't need glasses). But as Elvis Presly once said: 'You're so square, baby, I don't care.' :D When you said: 'Let's drive on Nürburgring' I immediately knew what was going to come. T1 and T4 of the Mercedes Arena are completely blind for me, as is the last turn. What helps a bit is the 'look to apex' option and multipliers in % in RaceroomRacingExperience. That gives you a glance into corners before entering and is quite helpful, as are the adjustable virtual mirrors and the Radar in OtterHUD. In the end, I can drive reasonable fast with my cheap setup (using an original dining chair) and I'm fine with that. When the day comes and the old monitor says farewell, I'll buy a wider screen, but VR is a bit too expensive for me and wouldn't be used the way it should be. If I ever get the chance to try a VR Headset and race with it, I'll take that but am not 100% convinced that I'll buy one after that for myself.
Ah there it is. I was waiting for it. Olafpedia 😉 When you mentioned on Discord about your 4:3 monitor I was both astonished and impressed at the same time. If it still works then there's no point getting rid of it, but I struggled with vision issues on 16:9 and all that extra space at the sides, so can't imagine how difficult it would be for you! I personally can't use any look to apex features as it really unsettles my feel in the car, makes it even harder for me to judge how much the car is rotating when my viewpoint changes also...but if it works for you then, hey, that's great news! I have a new found respect for you at the oval race now too, considering the above 😂
@@DDFRacer Olafpedia then, huh? I can live with that XD I could upload a short video with 'live' footage instead of replays so one can see how all looks to me :D Look to apex, Crew Chief Spotter, Radar in HUD, constantly looking left and right and remembering what I last saw in my mirrors and in front of me is what helps me most.
Great video Dan! All that data hurt my brain! ;-) Here's my experience: I have used Single screen, VR and Triple screen. I am fastest in VR, then triples, then the single - all by tiny margins like you were in most cases (except single where I suck - see below). I like VR for the immersion the best, but because of the heat and the weight of the headset, I rarely use it these days I got the triples because I couldn't stand single screen (mostly because it's my TV and it's too far away from the wheel so the FOV is screwy at that distance) The triples is where I now spend all of my sim racing time - and it's really great most of the time. It took me a long time to get the FOV right in all of the sims (and in some I still find I drive in bonnet/hood cam so that I can see what I need to see of the track. It's the vertical view that makes it feel restricted - so I guess this is a hold over from what I miss from VR You are spot on about feeling what the car is doing in VR. The immersion tricks your brain into thinking you are actually there, which helps you feel the movement of the car rather than actually having to observe it on a screen or 3 (it's easier with 3 than 1 screen as the change in your peripheral vision is very noticeable - and I can confirm you can get motion sick watching replays on triple screen!). Thanks for the video Dan - was really interesting to watch. That Super V8 in AMS2 is really tricky.
Oh wow, thanks for taking the time out to write that one mate! Hopefully I didn't hurt your brain too much with all that data 😂 might need a few watches to take it all in... Some great insight from you though, especially about triples 🤔 I'm sure you already have but, just incase, there's an awesome tool called fovcalculator which tells you the right fov to use based on your screen size and distance etc. I used it for my monitor runs and it makes such a difference having it all set up correctly 👍
@@DDFRacer You're welcome Dan - I hope it helps someone. I have couple of different FOV calculators bookmarked that I refer back to, however after EmptyBox made me aware many years ago of how important FOV is, he also noted that it is very important to be comfortable as well, and I find I have to change the recommended settings back a bit or I feel like the track in front of me is compressed. The added benefit of doing this is that I am far more consistent, and quicker too.
Great video mate .. Empirical even :) Just from the outside looking in as a non VR owner, it does appeal to me for the same reasons that Track IR was a game changer back in the day. Being able to turn the head to see an apex or an opponent. I'm probably going to go down the triples route but mainly because of the added value for other aspects of my computer using (ie music production and programming). However, if I didn't have those in my life VR would be very appealing. Maybe I'll do both when I'm rich and famous (at 50+ I better get a wriggle on on that one) ... :)
Ah thanks Simon, that's actually the perfect word to describe what I was going for! I know a lot of people would say "it feels like x or y" but it's mostly just anecdotal...I wanted to try and put some numbers on things and give people some actual data to look at 👍 Having multiple monitors really is a massive advantage for non-sim related stuff...my 2nd monitor comes in so useful when doing video edits and I imagine it would be super handy for your music stuff too. Sadly I'm a mac pleb and do all my audio stuff on a single screen 😉 but the extra screen real estate is invaulable for keeping your mind clutter free and focusing on what you're working on. I cannot recommend VR highly enough though for the ultimate 'experience', once you give it a try you'll never look back!
Cheers Richard, glad you found it interesting mate! I wouldn't mind getting some triples and running the experiment again though 😉 but I could certainly get used to monitor driving, especially in rF2!
@@DDFRacer Yeah that was a very interesting finding. I guess I've never tried rf2 in flat screen, but it's so damn good in VR, I keep going back to it. I also can't get ACC to look good enough in VR to feel immersed. Just such a blurry mess. Such a shame compared to the beautiful graphics I get on a screen.
good comparison ... VR for me is an improving tech which is very immersive. i tried it last year,but struggled to get on with the screen door/blur in the image. i also have Nvidia 3d vision which was pretty freaky. my monitor i use now doesnt support 3d vision but the high refresh rate[165hz] is equally a step up from 60hz monitors. i look forward to trying VR again when they iron out a few things. nice video DDF ... and i can understand your view point !
In about 5-10 years when VR gets an increased resolution, FOV and reliability, it'll be a much quicker question to answer 😉 but for the moment we're extremely limited by the current gen of graphics cards and processors. Those monitors you've got sound pretty fancy though 👍 do you notice much of an increase running above 60hz? I've had the opportunity to try it 🤔
@@DDFRacer it was the biggest leap for me FPS shooters are smoother than butter ! tbh i try to run games as close 165 fps,but sometimes that just isnt possible/practical. i limit the fps with AMS2 to 141 fps,which keeps the graphics card cool [2080 that architecture of cards can physically heat the room up!.when i had a 1070 it ran cool as a cucumber] ,plus i would say there is no visual difference [not for my ageing [eyes]. plus if i try to run anything at 60hz it just looks terrible,but thats down to the way the monitor is!
Great video! I used to race a little bit in VR, especially on Project Cars but i've not had that much experience with it. I do think it helps with consistency though!
Cheers mate! The F1 96 season got me thinking about all of this really and I wondered whether I was terrible in the car because of not having my usual VR... Or whether it was just the car. I still don't know 😂 but at least I can confidently say I'd have an extra half second when I wasn't putting that Jordan in the fence...
Awesome video! I haven't done a test like this, but I feel like driving is easier for me in Vr and I can be more consistent. Also I feel like my racecraft got better through Vr because I can actually see my opponent besides me.
Cheers Marc, glad you enjoyed it mate! VR helps racecraft so much and it's something I only really touched on at the start and end of the video, the majority being about laptimes. You're so right though, it's a massive advantage to be able to properly judge your opponents and also the barriers... Not so much for laptimes but because your incident rate goes down so much 👍
Nice Video. Oculus Rift made me a faster driver. Not from the very beginning, but after a few days of practice. And of course, the sensation of being behind a wheel in a car, is so much greater in VR.
Ah that's quite interesting to hear Thomas, did you have any motion sickness or problems adjusting? I was lucky enough when I got VR that I hadn't actually done any simracing or gaming *at all* for about a year. I moved from the UK to Australia and didn't bring my rig with me, so decided to save up and get a new setup, which meant I went straight in to VR and never looked back really. I love it, but I'd be fascinated to hear what the transition was like for you.
@@DDFRacer Hello DDF Racer. First of all. I have no experience of motion sickness. Not by flying, not by sailing and not by driving. That’s fortunate, I know. Once one of my colleagues was invited to try my Oculus Rift. I believe he moved the car about 10 feet, made a hard brake and took off the headset and turned white in a second. So listen to a good advice. Don’t buy a VR mask and a new computer to fit the VR-set, without testing it first. For me there is a limit regarding for how long I can be wearing the mask due to exhaustion of my eyes and forehead. I believe the stereo view in a VR headset makes it easier to determent distances. And that’s probably the reason why you begin to drive faster lap times. Also I think the headset gives you a part of the feeling you get from the seat in the real world. When you sit in a real car, you feel the cars movements in the seat, before you see it with your eyes, but when you are wearing a headset with stereo view, it’s like you are much more connected to the car in a sim. Pardon my “french”. English is not my mother tongue. ;-)
Oh man, rally!! I should have included a rally run too 🤦♂️ why didn't I think of that! I had to record some footage for my DR2 review video a few months ago and I actually found it a LOT harder to do on a monitor, I just had no idea how much the car was sliding and didn't trust it going sideways at all. Hairpins were horrible too 😬 and the scare factor you mention is probably a good thing. I couldn't make it through a stage without a huge crash on desktop whereas in VR I was much safer (and therefore survived much more 😉)
Glad you enjoyed it 😁 would be interesting to run another test now almost two years later, considering I've gotten even more experience under my belt across more sims and equipment too. Compared to this video I now have an ultrawide 144hz monitor which gives me a lot more peripheral vision and a lot more frames, two things which make it much easier to drive.
@@DDFRacer that would actually be a great video too! Lap time reduction also. I actually watched the video in two parts, that good I went back to finish it off. Just got into the vr side of it myself. Initial tests my lap times decreased especially short sharp chicanes. Always messed these up before always inconsistent. But what vr offers is amazing!
Can you put together a video detailing how you configure VR and iracing settings? I’m struggling to find a sweet spot for frame rates vs graphic quality on iracing and quest 2
Hey James, this is still a work in progress for myself too as I'm dialling in the settings also. What might work for me would be different for yourself as I'm using a CV1 instead of a Quest 2, also running a 3080 card which might skew more settings, especially considering I turn things down an extra step to give me some headroom when streaming. Those kind of videos go out of date _very_ quickly 😅 but more than happy to point you towards the guide I use as a reference: www.reddit.com/r/iRacing/comments/f0ac4p/another_vr_settings_post/ Also, this might be quite useful in your case maybe: www.reddit.com/r/iRacing/comments/rroarl/comment/hqhoooz
@@DDFRacer Hi Dan. Thanks for the links. I think you're right on this one, I've pretty much drawn the same conclusion in the last few days. For me, it's been a balance between oculus settings, what my PC is capable of and iRacing settings. There is no one size fits all setup. I've found a good compromise that's providing good enough visuals with a high stable framerate. I'm really pleased with the results. VR has been a total game changer, couldn't go back to monitor as the depth perception has been key. It feels like the missing piece of the puzzle after all these years. That and upgrading to the CSL DD
You should look into the HP Reverb G2 when it comes out. I have the current Reverb and the resolution is very good. I would say its close to playing on a 1080p monitor for clarity. I don't think I could ever go back to a monitor now.
Awesome, thanks Steven, I'll definitely check it out! I've been using my CV1 for a few years now and will need to upgrade eventually, so it's always nice to know these things in advance 👍 do you find having a headset with a higher resolution is more demanding on the computer though? When I'm racing, streaming, recording, using SimHub, Crewchief and Discord etc at the moment I'm finding I'm getting near to the limit of what my equipment can handle and not sure how much more I can push it 🤔
@@DDFRacer It is more taxing on gpu for sure. I currently have a 1080ti and 8700K. In Raceroom I am still able to run about 115% super sampling as long as I have no more than 20 ai and shadows and few other graphic settings on low. All I use is Crewchief though so not sure how it would do streaming. I am Hoping the 3000 series gpus aren't going to be to crazy expensive when they come out. But I doubt it lol.
As far as I'm aware you would definitely need two sensors, as it needs to track depth as well as position. I've had a sensor drop out before and been running on one only and it gets confused, starts to jump all over the place.
The rift have now arrived. All plugged in. Everything is recognized. Sensors, HDMI and and and. Steam VR installed and tested. Tracking but no image on the rift . Automobilista 2 launched. Track loaded and again no picture. But on the monitor I see all movements. Do you have an idea?
Interesting comparisons and observations, not the outcomes I expected to see. DDF, if you had access to head/eye tracking and ultra wide or triple monitors, do you think that would give you more situational awareness?
I tried TrackIR out a *long* time ago when I used to race in rF1 and I found it didn't really help me too much. The way you need to move your head but keep your eyes fixed on the screen became quite disorientating and made me dizzy, much more so than VR has ever made me 🤔 although I think triples would definitely be an advantage here for situational awareness...but honestly the biggest thing I miss outside of VR is the depth perception. It's incredibly useful to be able to instinctively know exactly how far away objects are and I think that gives me many more cues for racing/driving than any type of monitor would.
Definitely not mate, you can view anything in VR that would be able to if playing on a monitor/TV...although the motion sickness does happen much more easily when the camera is moving around in chase cam or trackside, it's definitely more suited to fixed camera positions. For example, you could grab a beer and go and sit in the stands and spectate a race replay if you wanted to. I've done it a few times before and it's a pretty cool experience 👍
very interesting, thank you for the video. there's really something going on when half of the games showed even better consistency on the monitor than in VR, despite the less comfortable feel for you. hmm... now I wonder what would the results be for a race pace when mental exhaustion starts to build up. would it be better in VR or would there be some other weird moments that put the monitor higher?
The consistency on a monitor was a big surprise for me also, as I thought it didn't feel too great when I was driving and I wasn't expecting that result at all! I would need to practice *a lot more* on a monitor to be comfortable in the car as I just don't feel like I have as much control as I do compared to VR. With virtual reality I feel like I can react better and understand what's actually happening 🤔 To answer your question about longer races, I can speak from experience having just completed a full season of 1 hour races driving the F1 1996 cars in Automobilsta 1 (no VR of course). It was exhausting. I couldn't concentrate on my chat anywhere near as much and I was making a lot more little mistakes, especially towards the end of the race. I've done plenty of 2 hour races in rFactor 2 in VR and my concentration hasn't been an issue but on a monitor in AMS1...man, my brain was fried 🤣
I certainly did...it look a lot of tweaking of graphics settings and config files but I got there, it doesn't look too fantastic though 😬 ACC is definitely the worst performing sim in VR as far as visuals go but one of the best in terms of enjoyment. I had a 1 hour race against the guys at AUSNZ Simracing the other night and it was one of the best driving experiences I've ever had. The race itself wan't particularly action packed but I was chasing the leader down for pretty much every single lap, giving it everything and the gap varying between 1 and 4 seconds...man, I got lost in the zone big time in ACC like no other sim I've experienced.
Very good video. But the results are altered, it depends largely on what you run usually is what the brain adapts the easiest, if you run 90% of the time with vr these results are expected. The vr monitor switch can be done but it is not instantaneous, the fov will never be the same as you are used to using in vr. I run Oculus and Samsung 49 and I am at least as fast on both. Anyway good video!
Definitely agree with you, and I completely expected to be faster on VR, but I was expecting it to be by a much bigger margin to be honest. The majority of my driving is inside the headset but being forced to use a monitor for AMS1 recently got me thinking about doing this comparison 🤔 with more practice on the monitor on a specific car/track I think I would be the same as you and just as fast in either VR or monitor...but I know it wouldn't feel as easy on a monitor. Glad you enjoyed the video anyway mate, thanks for watching! 😎
Thanks Paul, glad you enjoyed it! Over the past few months I've been focusing on streaming and racing more than making these style of videos, but I miss a good experiment/project video like this 🤔 I have a few interesting ones in the works at the moment though...
I would love to try VR but I wear glasses (like you). Not sure what it would be like taking my glasses off to wear VR goggles. Not sure I want to pay hundreds of dollars to find out. LOL
I used to race without my glasses when I first got VR but then I found a company called VR Lens Lab who can make custom 3d printed inserts using your prescription 👓👍 they clip inside the headset and it's like having 2020 vision, makes using my oculus so much better!
@@rchelipilot3581 Hi. I use glasses in VR. It works on PSVR and on Rift S, but not the original Rift (not for me at least), so it depends on what headset you are aiming for. On the Rift I put the headset on with the headband first, but now with the Rift S I can mount it with the front part first, then tighten the halo. You can also do what DDF does, and print the glasses on the outside of the headset. Haven't tried that myself.
Monitors have less input lag. Easy decision for me. I got faster much quicker when shifting to a low input lag, high refresh rate gaming monitor. I can tell when I have exceeded maximum slip angle much, much faster and react much faster with a monitor than vr.
Interesting 🤔 Aidan Millward made a video a few months ago about the benefits of higher framerates and certainly found some time so what you're saying kind of reinforces that belief too. I can see why the reaction times would be quicker, but I personally found the lack of depth perception made it more difficult to react correctly. Maybe more practice is required 👍
@@DDFRacer VR is definitely more immersive and is easier to find your lines. And FAR more immersive too. It just can't compete with really low input lag gaming monitors. Once I made an effort to go high fps and reduce my input lag there was no looking back. I struggle to race on vr now as I can't find the "edge". It just feels "wrong" having that extra lag.
Oh yeah, I love it! But I was curious to see the pace difference to a monitor after being thrown in at the deep end to an AMS1 F1 1996 championship and...well...I honestly didn't think it would be so close 😬
Oh if only it was that easy 😂 I'd love for everyone to try VR at least once and experience what it feels like to actually sit in the car. If I had the money I'd probably end up starting one of those sim racing experience centres 🤔
@@DDFRacer i plan on getting one eventually...semi worried about motion sickness so need to try it first...prolly get back n2 flight sims should i take to it alright
The answer is: Kinda. VR makes you able to be more precise in your driving, which makes you faster, as you can drive nearer to your opponents, know your place on the track better and therefore cut the corners and hit the apexes where it's best.
As somebody who's done triples and VR, I prefer VR by far (And Elite Dangerous looks impressive on VR, and I'm more accurate on Payday 2, and Beat Saber, and...)
I would love to be able to compare VR and monitor in a racing situation with opponents and more of an 'improvised driving' situation as opposed to just hotlaps but it's so incredibly hard to create the same situation in two sessions and press play. One little AI move different and the butterfly effect kicks in and everything after that is compounded. That said, I do personally prefer VR but wouldn't mind giving triples a go one day 🤔 also, Elite Dangerous is awesome! Haven't played it for a long time now, but that's a world I can get lost in for days at a time. Maybe that's why I stopped 😅
@@DDFRacer Yeah, no scientific method from me. Just the fact I could beat the AI better, faster (and at last)
You nailed it with your thoughts on immersion in VR. I don't really care if I'm a bit slower or faster than on the monitor, you can't beat the immersion factor. I just need something with a wider FOV than the CV1 now... and a new PC to power it!
Nothing comes close to the feeling you get in VR, it seriously doesn't. Well...maybe the real thing 🤣 but only a fortunate few of us actually get to experience that. Many people here in the comments have touched on it but it'll be fascinating to see what tech comes out in the next few years, both in terms of headsets and GPU/CPUs...so many graphics detail settings are turned right down at the moment but the thought of being able to crank it up and also keep the frames...oh my 🤤
That was a super interesting video with a result I didn't really expect. I wrote you a comment some months ago about the same topic but on a different video and my expectation was that you will be faster in any sim on a monitor. But now that I think about it and even had a first-hand experience with AMS1 I can only wholeheartedly agree with you. Going back from VR to a flat screen is like learning how to drive again. You can't just go back and expect to be fast, I mean even the tracks look different. The corner markers and brake points will still be on the same spot but the surroundings are so different due to the forced perspective and the narrow field of view. If you're so used to how it feels to drive the car, it's so completely off to go "back" driving "flat". Guess all the people who say that you can't go back have a deeper meaning than I always thought it had. I always thought this is a really entitled saying but they're not wrong at all.
Though my point still stands. If you want to drive for consistency and maximum pace then triples is the way to go. But it will take time getting used to monitors again before you have the pace. I guess that's also the reason why you were faster in ACC because that sim is still new for you and there's still time to find.
But VR offers so much more than just depth perception and the ability to look around freely. It just feels so natural to strap your headset on your head and just drive. I cannot emphasise enough how *_natural_* it feels. It feels like you're home, like you are now connected with the car itself and not with the cheaply made G27 in front of you or the monitor, like you know exactly what to do. I can't go back to monitors because driving in VR is not only more fun but also something I fell in love with. And as entitled as it sounds, driving a sim on a monitor is not that fun for me anymore.
It's such a surreal feeling driving on a monitor again after all these years...it's a lot less natural like you say. Because of that I fully expected to be *wayyy* off the pace compared to VR but the results were a big surprise to me too, but I wouldn't go back ever I think, not even to triples if I had the option. The depth perception is invaluable and trumps all other disadvantages of VR in my opinion, also the immersion. I like to think of virtual reality as 'my escape' and when the headset goes on I'm in a different world, as cliche as that sounds. Having the physical inputs mirror the digital ones (i.e. steering wheel and pedals in the same place) just convinces my brain it's all real and away I go...two hours of simracing like it's absolutely nothing 😅
Awesome video. You have me convinced now. Gonna do more VR racing.
VR was an absolute game changer for me, pun completely intended. Although it's more demanding on your system and more prone to random technical problems, the trade-off of the increased immersion through spatial awareness and depth perception is something you never quite come back from. Perhaps when graphics can be pushed a little further and the headsets have a better resolution it'll be a no brainer, but at the moment it's definitely in the realms of 'enthusiast' as opposed to 'casual'. Well worth it though!
So enjoyable, thank you! You are really talented as a presenter as well.
Ahh why thank you Perts 😃 doing this whole UA-cam thing has been one big learning experience. I started out uploading whole races with no commentary or webcam a few years ago and now I'm making videos like this which are mostly, like you say, presenting. Never imagined I'd end up making content like this 🤔
@@DDFRacer At your age I was mostly broke as well and unfortunately still far from rich. Not only for Adelaide I used the ghost function in the TimeTrial, tried their setups and copied their lines, but the 1.0 is coming soon and will wipe the leaderboards anyway. I hope they are on schedule and will bring the 70's F1 cars. The Vintage Gen 2 and the Vee are my favourites, but not with default setup. The Rocco rocks as well and the modern Stockcar drives more like the Super V8 before it got funny.
I hope you keep using the Logitech G29 as you grow! It's nice to have a UA-camr who is a peasant like us, since I don't intend to ever upgrade. It's harder to relate to UA-camrs with expensive setups!
I'll be honest with you Sebastian, I've been thining about an upgrade for a while now 🤔 I've got my eye on some Fanatec v3 inverted pedals, those are a priority, but then most likely a Simetik K2 rig/frame and then a wheelbase and rim lastly. It's not that I don't like my G29, I love it! It's been great and served me well for years, but the pedals are definitely starting to fail (I've recently replaced the potentiometers but they're starting to go again already) so if I'm going to spend money on replacement gear then I might as well make it worthwhile 👍
I do enjoy being the peasant though and sticking it to the guys with fancy gear 🤣 it must be what driving for Minardi felt like (sorry Brodie...)
Nice video Dan, the stats are pretty interesting. Being lucky enough to have triples and vr I think the gap is actually even closer. But the emersion you get in VR is irreplaceable. I do find certain sims easier (probably due to resource) to race on screens - ACC being the obvious one.
Interesting how you immediately missed the detail in R3E after coming from a monitor, would love to see them move to dx11 for a better optimised experience. Race room with the graphic caperbility of ams2 or iracing would be a winning formula!
I think with triples and a bit more practice there'd be absolutely nothing in it for laptime, but significantly less enjoyment and trust in the car on a monitor which might make all the difference in a longer race 🤔
I'd absolutely love a VR headset with the resolution of a monitor though, but I feel nervous just thinking about the kind of hardware I'd need to run it 😅
Great insight as I'm tossing up this exact decision :)
Great comparison Dan, I'd agree there isn't much gap between both and the immersion of VR is a the best thing about it. After that first go of VR I was hooked, slowly though over time the resolution issue of VR wore me down and ended up switching to triples. The other bit that bugged me was FOV, I know you can turn to see stuff in VR, but if you're driving along it's that peripheral vision that is giving you your braking marker. I'm sure both will be sorted in the future, can't wait for the improvements over the next decade when we get two 4k screens next to each other and a 170 degree vision.
Yeah I noticed after a few of the hotlap challenges you switched from VR to monitor and I always meant to ask you what the deal with that was, but turns out you just answered that for me 😉 and be honest mate, you didn't switch to triples, you switched to quads 🤣 I'm still counting that top monitor! You're completely right though, once technology progresses a little more and we can increase the FOV and resolution inside the headset then it'll be a no brainer. Not only for simracing, but for all kinds of VR use in general.
I saw a fantastic video the other day of someone who recreated their room 1:1 in Oculus home and could walk around freely with furniture that he could actually sit on in both worlds...in the same way we simracers and feel like we're physically in the car when we're on the wheel and pedals. It's awesome stuff.
Dan, I figured out your problem in Automobilista 2 with the monitor: your field of view (FOV) is wayyyyyy too narrow. Try increasing it for better situational awareness and being able to hit apexes more consistently.
Also, as a general rule of thumb on all sims, in my opinion playing with your seat position (height, distance, etc.) is what I find most crucial to being comfortable in the car.
It does look pretty narrow on the screen but I did the math(s 😉) and using the FOV calculator this is what I should have been using apparently. A lot of the sim racing purists say you need to have a 1:1 ratio when using a monitor so you actually see what you would see through that screen in real life and get a proper feel for the car. I might go and play around with it and try again some time just to see 🤔 but you're completely right about feeling comfortable...it's so hard to drive a car you don't trust or can't understand .
I always struggled to sim race on flat screens, as it’s completely alien to driving in real life. VR gives me a sense of distance, space and speed which helps me enjoy sim racing. I personally am faster and more consistent in VR compared to flat screens. A large part of this is that you can look into Apex’s, turn to see where your competitors are and feel that you are in the car. I also learn new tracks far quicker in VR than I ever did on flat screens. Since I switched to VR, I play my sims a lot more now, than I did on flat screen because it’s more immersive and more enjoyable. When I watch esports 99% of them are playing in flat screens or trebles, so I would say if you want to be a pro sim racer that’s the way forward! But for me personally, being a non alien I want total immersion and VR gives me that and total escapism too.
I think for eSports it's much more reliable to race on a monitor, you can't run the risk of a screen freeze or VR glitch which do, unfortunately, seem to be a little too common than is comfortable 😅 you're completely right about the immersion though, it's almost as if VR was designed with simracing in mind! Although Elite Dangerous is pretty good for some escapism too 😉
Thanks for watching and for taking the time out to write that comment anyways 👍 much appreciated as always!
Great comparison and yes, the Super V8 got nasty with the updates, but this might be more accurate with it's spool-not-differential. Ken Block tried this car and was unintentionally spinning the first corner with it, saying, it drives completely different than any other car he tried and need opposing skills from what he was learning all those years. I did some TimeTrial with it and got a 1:19,2 at Adelaide, about 1,5 sec. off the record. The trick is to brake a bit more early (as straight as possible), coast to the very early apex and power-oversteer out of the corner. If you do this mid-apex like with other cars, you get too much rotation because almost all the torque goes to the outside tyre (more grip=more torque). Karts need a similar approach as well if you want to go fast in them. They are just far more forgiving for different approaches because of the weight distribution and no suspension, so no roll and pitch.
I was using VR exclusively over 2 years (Oculus CV1, Samsung Odyssey, HTC Cosmos) and bought a Samsung HG90 because the performance in ACC sucked too much. Now i'm using the Samsung for every sim because it's great. It's not just the size, but the curved shape and certainly performance. If you get used to 144 Hz, back to 90 Hz with far lower framerates and worse graphics is just not an option. I also noticed that VR is stressing my eyes quite a bit. Also i'm using a motion/tactile feedback setup and the Cosmos doesn't handle it like it should. My advise: don't switch to anything else than a Rift S or Ultrawide. The Oculus software performs the best with the least amount of shaking. With higher resolutions there are too huge performance hits, both on displays and HMDs. Displays need native resolution and HMDs always want more than that. The Cosmos needs more than 4k resolution both eyes combined or it looks awful.
That's reassuring to know it wasn't just me that thought the car was nasty 😅 and thanks for those tips, next time I try it out I'll keep them in mind. It surprised me also because I recorded that race at Montreal in the same car and didn't have anywhere near the same amount of trouble trying to keep it going in the right direction.
Also, I just had a quick look at the HG90 and wow! Not only the specifications, but the price too 😉 something like that might be a little out of my range at the moment, but would certainly be a welcome addition to the setup in the future! With regards to HMDs, again, thank you for the advise 👍 some very useful stuff you've mentioned and, to be honest, I don't think I'd move away from Oculus after having years of faithful service from my CV1. The other alternatives just don't seem to stack up for what I need.
I'm definitely more consistent on VR, and I'm able to be more aggressive on wheel-to-wheel battles, because well... I can see.
It sounds like it's an obvious statement but it's honestly so true 😅 you can get the same visibility with a good set of triples though, but you don't get the same 'feeling' of being in the car and being able to judge the space around you properly. It definitely feels a lot more natural.
Also, thanks for remind me about this video! It's a few years old now and I'd kind of forgotten about it. Might have to revisit the topic now I've got even more experience.
I was definitely faster in VR than on a monitor, as the depth perception was the key ingredient that was missing. I might've gotten quick on a monitor, too, but it felt unintuitive and clunky. So one thing to test would be how quickly do you learn/adapt to a new car/track combo in VR versus monitor. That is a good thing to test, as it is a quality of life feature to get used to new cars and/or tracks, as a beginner.
I think that's a good idea but quite hard to test because you'd want to have the same car and track between monitor and VR... But once you learn the car and track on whichever goes first then you'll already have the advantage for the 2nd run 🤔 I do feel like VR makes it easy to get up to speed much more quickly though and certainly makes it easier to establish reference points!
@@DDFRacer That's true, but you can compare it by alternating VR and monitor between car/track setups and see where there is an easier/quicker improvement and if it transitions to the other medium easily or not. So the comparison would be, how quickly are lap times gained in the first medium and does it translate quickly to the other display option.
I went from a single 27" 4k. to a Hp reverb G2 it felt so much more normal and natural hands down also far more consistent. Great comparisons, subbed
It's amazing how much difference it makes, especially in terms of consistency like you say. It feels so much easier to judge distances around the circuit which makes it much easier to hit those marks every time, even with the reduced resolution and clarity when trying to pick out brake markers and landmarks.
new to sim racing and still considering my upgrade path. i'm heavily debating the VR vs triple monitor aspect, to me it's not about being the absolute best or fastest, but more importantly for me is the immersion and fun feeling not the tryharding. this is kinda why i think im leaning towards a VR headset, not only that but also considering it will likely end up cheaper than a triple monitor setup. i equally enjoy doing a race in iracing or ACC as i do cruising around and doing laps at the nordschleife just for the fun of driving.
SIM will be as close to i can get to so many super cars and different roads so might as well focus more on the immersion side than the lap times.
Nothing beats VR when it comes to immersing yourself in the experience of going sim racing, so if you have the chance to upgrade then you should definitely take it! Especially for just cruising round, being able to take in the views in 3D and move your head around is special. Just keep in mind you'll need a decent PC to be able to get a solid framerate (for example the CV1 I'm using requires a constant 90) 👍
My pc is pretty powerful but I have a potato GPU. unfortunately got caught out in the gpu shortage and was never able to upgrade. Hopefully prices will drop soon.
really interesting video. Must have taken a long time to do all this science work. Thank you =)
Cheers Captain, glad you enjoyed it mate! In this instance, the driving was by far the easiest part 😉 writing the script and thinking of a way to pretty much talk about a spreadsheet for an entire video was the challenge this time! I would have definitely expected the gap to be much bigger and with a little more practice on a monitor, who knows... 🤔
Good Sir, your timing is as impressive as your apexes. I decided just yesterday to get a monitor for my rig. Warm summers being number one reason, but ofc also has to try out Eaglecott Junction lol. The monitor I'm looking at right now is very close to your. An AOC 32" curved. Monitor stands are sold out at GTOmega Racing, so I'll have to build one to begin with :) Thanks for an informative and inspiring video.
I can't say I've ever had a problem with my AOC monitor and it's pretty good for what I need, which is mostly video editing but it does perform well for simracing too. I wouldn't mind a slightly bigger screen so I can get some more side detail, as I find I need to put my monitor right behind the wheel to get a decent FOV. Oh, that's actually really important mate, make sure you set your FOV correctly 👍 and if you have the option of getting a slightly larger screen then I'd recommend it, you won't regret it 😉
@@DDFRacer Ok, you're probably right. I did find an alternative one. Samsung 49" Curved ultra wide 144Hz with 1ms response time. The store will have it in stock later this week. Bit more pricey ofc, but probably better to get what I want than only half way.
Loving this video (still watching). A question came to mind during the ACC runs: do you think there is more lag in VR over the monitor? Could that explain why you were faster on the monitor in ACC? Edited after I finished: very well done! For me, VR wins because it's more fun and more immersive. It's the future of sim racing. Someday, it's just how everyone will do it. Right now it's a bit of an early adopter thing. Can't wait to see what VR will be in the next 3-5 years...
Good question Moonie, and that could be a whole new rabbit hole for me to go down 😂 I honestly can't say I've ever had any issues with input lag...but then again I've never actually gone looking for it. I would expect more lag on a monitor though as I always tend to run vsync or cap the frames at 60. If I don't do that then I get awful stuttering on my Streamlabs recordings as the game is trying to throw too many frames at my encoder and it just gets overloaded...it's a big problem with AMS2 at the moment but Vsync doesn't fix it and there's no frame limiter option in the menu that I can find.
@@DDFRacer Hmm... I use plain old OBS to record AMS2 (and everything else) and things have gone smoothly for me. You might try that as a backup method? But maybe it is too hard to change all your recording stuff over. I've been meaning to try streamlabs, but haven't gotten to that yet...
@@DDFRacer You can use nvidia inspector to limit FPS, maybe that helps with AMS2. (I think you have an nvidia GPU.)
@@jorn-jorenjorenson5028 Oh nice, I hadn't heard of that, will check it out! And yep, you're right, I have the Nvidia GTX 1080 8GB card 😉
@@DDFRacer Never, ever run vsync on a monitor. That is why you can't tell the difference in input lag.
Really interesting video mate!!
Wonder if the ACC numbers had anything to do with performance? ACC is really heavy on the system.
Actully thought it would be a bigger difference, especially concistancy!
But as you say, nothing beats the immersion you get in VR!!
I had the majority of settings turned right down on ACC in both VR and on the monitor to ensure I didn't have of those performance issues you mention, same for AMS2 also...didn't want to risk anything upsetting the recording once I started my run 😬 and I completely agree about the results, I didn't expect it to be anywhere near as close! The sense of fun, enjoyment, satisfaction...whatever you want to call it, is unbeatable in VR though 😉 although I'd be worried if you said anything otherwise, being the VR champion!
@@DDFRacer 😎✌😁
That's a very interesting & enjoyable analysis of the differences, I use VR & head tracking, you might give track IR / Trackhat / Delanclip a go to get something not quite as immersive as VR but better than a flat monitor (in my opionion anyway). One note for me as a big fan of both ACC & AMS2: the combo of Super V8 & Adelaide is a real test, much more demanding than the other combos used, especially the GT3s which are a relative breeze to drive, so I'm not surprised the AMS2 section was the least consistent. Great video though, I'd join you in the Volvo event but I'd likely last about 20 seconds & take several innocent drivers out with me.
I previously used TrackIR, many many years ago, a long time before I used VR actually, and really didn't enjoy the experience at all. Something about it felt really unnatural and when I turned my head to the side to have a look around it made me a little motion sick, which is odd because I've never had any such troubles in VR. I can definitely see the benefits though, especially on a single monitor setup.
Looking back at the AMS2 V8 combo I can see I was a long way out of my depth 😅 that car needs a lot of practice! Still, the results are the results and it actually proved to be a meaningful test as not every single car you drive is going to be planted to the road and stable like the GT3s you mentioned.
What a great video, thank you! You definitely deserve more views and subs so keep at it and they will come! I was recently thinking of getting into VR just for sim racing since it look so immersive. The looking ahead and into and beyond the apex is huge and what I'm looking most forward to (well that and the overall immersion). My concerns are motion sickness and reduced screen time vs a monitor. Do you get sick with VR? And do you feel more fatigue after playing vs just with a monitor? Also how is the clarity? For reference my gaming monitor is 27" 1440p with freesync
You're more than welcome, was a pleasure to put this one together! After my recent stint in AMS1 on a monitor and being out of my comfort zone I was really intrigued to see what the difference might be and...yeah, you saw the results 😉 although I wasn't expecting it to be anywhere near as close!
Regarding motion sickness and fatigue, I can report neither of those affect me too much, although I know this can vary a lot from person to person so just because I'm fine doesn't mean you will be. I know that's not particularly reassuring but I guess the only way to find out is to give it a try somewhere before you buy, if thats at all possible 👍 however even when I first started racing in VR I didn't have any problems. Games which physically move the viewpoint in an unnatural way tend to affect me the most, such as flying through the air on Google Earth or a pre-scripted character movement in Alien Isolation like opening a door or ducking out the way quickly without me actually ducking in real life. Sitting in a car with a wheel and pedals makes so much sense, once you get past the fact there are no g-forces affecting the body.
Regarding fatigue, I actually find racing on a monitor much more tiring! I need to use more concentration and find myself getting distracted a lot more easily. VR feels a lot more natural and shuts you off from the outside world making it easier to keep focus, if you can adjust your headset to be comfortable then you shouldn't even notice it 😎
Clarity is definitely less in VR, but it's not terrible. Details in the distance tend to get lost a little but I'm only using a CV1 which is a few years old now, the newer headsets have better resolutions so you shouldn't notice as much 👍
@@DDFRacer Thank you so much for the detailed reply! Amazon allows returns on the Oculus Rift so I may just take the plunge and see if it's for me. There's also the Oculus Quest but that's seems geared towards mobile gaming and is more expensive. Re: Alien Isolation on VR, I can't imagine how creepy that would be. The game freaks me out just playing on a monitor with headphones in a dark room. 😳
Ha yeah, it's absolutely terrifying! I can't do more than 15 mins without having to take a break 😂 my heart can't take it!
Nice video DDF. I think an interview/discussion with some of the lads that have transitioned from single screen to VR and then to Triples would be interesting. I personally can't do VR but I can say that if you have a chance to play it with a triple monitor setup the experience would be very different as you would be able to look into those blind corners that a single monitor does not allow for. I also use tracking iR at times so I too can look around while driving or sitting in the pits.
Great idea! This video was probably a bit one sided as it was only my perspective, but this is why I love the comments section and Discord etc, the community get stuck in and share their thoughts too. Wouldn't mind trying out a triple screen setup one day to see what it's like and, if I enjoy it, then perhaps I might commit to that as a backup to VR 🤔 have tried track IR previously though and, funnily enough, it made me way sicker/dizzier than VR ever has. How does that one work?! 🤷♂️
@@DDFRacer I'm using it with the facial recognition software that also comes with it & works well once you have tuned it in. I tend to use it more for Elite Dangerous & my Trucking Sims more though as visibility with the triples for racing works fine without it for me.
I think it’s down to preference really. For me in VR I feel I can judge the breaking better, the turning points and it’s easier to battle other cars because you can feel the distance and space, the downside would be awareness as you constantly have to look as your FOV is a lot smaller. Alot of people and professionals don’t use VR because of the FOV they like to be able to see their surroundings on one Peripheral.
Having never tried triples I can only speculate about the advantages but I imagine it would be pretty nice to be able to flick your eyes over to one side and check who's alongside instead of having to move your entire head and take your focus off the road. There are definitely more advanced VR headsets on the market now compared to when I made this video a few years ago but not many of them have a wide FOV, in fact there's a fair few that actually have a narrower view than the CV1 that I'm still using.
Aside from that though, I do agree, the depth perception and spatial awareness of driving in VR makes it easier to judge the distances and feel your way around the track more easily. I guess in reality when you're wearing a crash helmet with foam padding you wouldn't see too much in your peripheral vision anyway 😅 that's my excuse at least ha!
Makes you wonder what it would look like if someone brand new to VR tried it.
Ahh how the turn tables 🤔 I'm sure motion sickness would play a pretty big part in it though! I think VR is a lot more intuitive though, I certainly find it much easier to learn a new circuit in the headset compared to on a monitor 👍
Awesome stuff Dan! I managed to get on a VR rig (with motion too) at an event back in January - takes a bit of getting used to but it's definitely easier - just wish I had the money to get myself one!
Oh wow, that must have been a great experience! I've personally never tried a motion rig and, to be honest, I'd be slightly concerned about the reaction Mrs DDF would have to the noise one of those things puts out 🤣 actually no, you're right...I'd be more concerned about her reaction to the bank balance 😬
Fascinating. I wonder if the consistency with monitor comes down to you being able to get to the limit and stay there due to not having the same level of feel, as opposed to the headset where you're much more comfortable and so naturally then start pushing the car harder and harder? Great experiment anyway. I really want to try a headset one day but I'm a bit worried about what might happen if I like it.
That's a very good point and I think to test the consistency some more would need a lot more practice and a bigger data set, maybe a few hours worth of stints 👍 could be one to keep in mind for next season's VLMC perhaps, with doing a longer race in rF2 on the monitor to test it out!
Once you try VR then it's hard to go back though 😉 and I can certainly imagine it'd help you a lot with balancing the type of cars you drive which are always right on the knife edge of grip.
"I really want to try a headset one day but I'm a bit worried about what might happen if I like it." That is exactly what I think since the first usable headsets came out. And I am still hesitant to try it, because I believe I will like it a lot. Anyway, as headsets will get better and more affordable, the day will come. Maybe getting dizzy and sweaty will help us then to return to the real world again... : )
I love your streams and videos keep up the good work.
Thanks mate, will do! Anything in particular you'd like to see in the channel I should add to my to do list?
@@DDFRacer kartkraft, assetto Corsa and euro truck simulator 2 or American truck simulator
Very nice video, facing the facts and figures whilst being pretty neutral and explaining the whats and whys!
I have almost no experience with VR at all, but I'm sure it helps out by looking into the corners and general immersion and awareness of where you are and where the track limits & the opponents are. I use a pretty much square small monitor which is 12 years old, but still works fine as on day one. Only negative point is the very limited vision left and right and the pretty pixelated quality, on small dashes you sometimes can't read the numbers (No I don't need glasses). But as Elvis Presly once said: 'You're so square, baby, I don't care.' :D
When you said: 'Let's drive on Nürburgring' I immediately knew what was going to come. T1 and T4 of the Mercedes Arena are completely blind for me, as is the last turn. What helps a bit is the 'look to apex' option and multipliers in % in RaceroomRacingExperience. That gives you a glance into corners before entering and is quite helpful, as are the adjustable virtual mirrors and the Radar in OtterHUD.
In the end, I can drive reasonable fast with my cheap setup (using an original dining chair) and I'm fine with that. When the day comes and the old monitor says farewell, I'll buy a wider screen, but VR is a bit too expensive for me and wouldn't be used the way it should be.
If I ever get the chance to try a VR Headset and race with it, I'll take that but am not 100% convinced that I'll buy one after that for myself.
Ah there it is. I was waiting for it. Olafpedia 😉
When you mentioned on Discord about your 4:3 monitor I was both astonished and impressed at the same time. If it still works then there's no point getting rid of it, but I struggled with vision issues on 16:9 and all that extra space at the sides, so can't imagine how difficult it would be for you! I personally can't use any look to apex features as it really unsettles my feel in the car, makes it even harder for me to judge how much the car is rotating when my viewpoint changes also...but if it works for you then, hey, that's great news! I have a new found respect for you at the oval race now too, considering the above 😂
@@DDFRacer Olafpedia then, huh? I can live with that XD
I could upload a short video with 'live' footage instead of replays so one can see how all looks to me :D
Look to apex, Crew Chief Spotter, Radar in HUD, constantly looking left and right and remembering what I last saw in my mirrors and in front of me is what helps me most.
Great video Dan! All that data hurt my brain! ;-)
Here's my experience:
I have used Single screen, VR and Triple screen.
I am fastest in VR, then triples, then the single - all by tiny margins like you were in most cases (except single where I suck - see below).
I like VR for the immersion the best, but because of the heat and the weight of the headset, I rarely use it these days
I got the triples because I couldn't stand single screen (mostly because it's my TV and it's too far away from the wheel so the FOV is screwy at that distance)
The triples is where I now spend all of my sim racing time - and it's really great most of the time. It took me a long time to get the FOV right in all of the sims (and in some I still find I drive in bonnet/hood cam so that I can see what I need to see of the track. It's the vertical view that makes it feel restricted - so I guess this is a hold over from what I miss from VR
You are spot on about feeling what the car is doing in VR. The immersion tricks your brain into thinking you are actually there, which helps you feel the movement of the car rather than actually having to observe it on a screen or 3 (it's easier with 3 than 1 screen as the change in your peripheral vision is very noticeable - and I can confirm you can get motion sick watching replays on triple screen!).
Thanks for the video Dan - was really interesting to watch. That Super V8 in AMS2 is really tricky.
Oh wow, thanks for taking the time out to write that one mate! Hopefully I didn't hurt your brain too much with all that data 😂 might need a few watches to take it all in...
Some great insight from you though, especially about triples 🤔 I'm sure you already have but, just incase, there's an awesome tool called fovcalculator which tells you the right fov to use based on your screen size and distance etc. I used it for my monitor runs and it makes such a difference having it all set up correctly 👍
@@DDFRacer You're welcome Dan - I hope it helps someone.
I have couple of different FOV calculators bookmarked that I refer back to, however after EmptyBox made me aware many years ago of how important FOV is, he also noted that it is very important to be comfortable as well, and I find I have to change the recommended settings back a bit or I feel like the track in front of me is compressed. The added benefit of doing this is that I am far more consistent, and quicker too.
Great video mate .. Empirical even :)
Just from the outside looking in as a non VR owner, it does appeal to me for the same reasons that Track IR was a game changer back in the day. Being able to turn the head to see an apex or an opponent. I'm probably going to go down the triples route but mainly because of the added value for other aspects of my computer using (ie music production and programming). However, if I didn't have those in my life VR would be very appealing. Maybe I'll do both when I'm rich and famous (at 50+ I better get a wriggle on on that one) ... :)
Ah thanks Simon, that's actually the perfect word to describe what I was going for! I know a lot of people would say "it feels like x or y" but it's mostly just anecdotal...I wanted to try and put some numbers on things and give people some actual data to look at 👍
Having multiple monitors really is a massive advantage for non-sim related stuff...my 2nd monitor comes in so useful when doing video edits and I imagine it would be super handy for your music stuff too. Sadly I'm a mac pleb and do all my audio stuff on a single screen 😉 but the extra screen real estate is invaulable for keeping your mind clutter free and focusing on what you're working on.
I cannot recommend VR highly enough though for the ultimate 'experience', once you give it a try you'll never look back!
@@DDFRacer Yup I have two at the moment and n the odd occasion I have to use a system in another studio with a single screen it just seems so clumsy.
That's really interesting mate. Great video!
Cheers Richard, glad you found it interesting mate! I wouldn't mind getting some triples and running the experiment again though 😉 but I could certainly get used to monitor driving, especially in rF2!
@@DDFRacer Yeah that was a very interesting finding. I guess I've never tried rf2 in flat screen, but it's so damn good in VR, I keep going back to it. I also can't get ACC to look good enough in VR to feel immersed. Just such a blurry mess. Such a shame compared to the beautiful graphics I get on a screen.
good comparison ... VR for me is an improving tech which is very immersive.
i tried it last year,but struggled to get on with the screen door/blur in the image.
i also have Nvidia 3d vision which was pretty freaky.
my monitor i use now doesnt support 3d vision but the high refresh rate[165hz]
is equally a step up from 60hz monitors.
i look forward to trying VR again when they iron out a few things.
nice video DDF ... and i can understand your view point !
In about 5-10 years when VR gets an increased resolution, FOV and reliability, it'll be a much quicker question to answer 😉 but for the moment we're extremely limited by the current gen of graphics cards and processors. Those monitors you've got sound pretty fancy though 👍 do you notice much of an increase running above 60hz? I've had the opportunity to try it 🤔
@@DDFRacer it was the biggest leap for me FPS shooters are smoother than butter !
tbh i try to run games as close 165 fps,but sometimes that just isnt possible/practical.
i limit the fps with AMS2 to 141 fps,which keeps the graphics card cool [2080 that architecture of cards can physically heat the room up!.when i had a 1070 it ran cool as a cucumber] ,plus i would say there is no visual difference [not for my ageing [eyes].
plus if i try to run anything at 60hz it just looks terrible,but thats down to the way the monitor is!
Great video! I used to race a little bit in VR, especially on Project Cars but i've not had that much experience with it. I do think it helps with consistency though!
Cheers mate! The F1 96 season got me thinking about all of this really and I wondered whether I was terrible in the car because of not having my usual VR... Or whether it was just the car. I still don't know 😂 but at least I can confidently say I'd have an extra half second when I wasn't putting that Jordan in the fence...
Awesome video! I haven't done a test like this, but I feel like driving is easier for me in Vr and I can be more consistent. Also I feel like my racecraft got better through Vr because I can actually see my opponent besides me.
Cheers Marc, glad you enjoyed it mate! VR helps racecraft so much and it's something I only really touched on at the start and end of the video, the majority being about laptimes. You're so right though, it's a massive advantage to be able to properly judge your opponents and also the barriers... Not so much for laptimes but because your incident rate goes down so much 👍
Nice Video.
Oculus Rift made me a faster driver.
Not from the very beginning, but after a few days of practice.
And of course, the sensation of being behind a wheel in a car, is so much greater in VR.
Ah that's quite interesting to hear Thomas, did you have any motion sickness or problems adjusting? I was lucky enough when I got VR that I hadn't actually done any simracing or gaming *at all* for about a year. I moved from the UK to Australia and didn't bring my rig with me, so decided to save up and get a new setup, which meant I went straight in to VR and never looked back really. I love it, but I'd be fascinated to hear what the transition was like for you.
@@DDFRacer
Hello DDF Racer.
First of all. I have no experience of motion sickness. Not by flying, not by sailing and not by driving. That’s fortunate, I know.
Once one of my colleagues was invited to try my Oculus Rift. I believe he moved the car about 10 feet, made a hard brake and took off the headset and turned white in a second.
So listen to a good advice. Don’t buy a VR mask and a new computer to fit the VR-set, without testing it first.
For me there is a limit regarding for how long I can be wearing the mask due to exhaustion of my eyes and forehead.
I believe the stereo view in a VR headset makes it easier to determent distances. And that’s probably the reason why you begin to drive faster lap times. Also I think the headset gives you a part of the feeling you get from the seat in the real world. When you sit in a real car, you feel the cars movements in the seat, before you see it with your eyes, but when you are wearing a headset with stereo view, it’s like you are much more connected to the car in a sim.
Pardon my “french”. English is not my mother tongue. ;-)
Interesting data. The monitor can probably be faster on rally stages where the scare factor plays a big role. Nice video mate!
Oh man, rally!! I should have included a rally run too 🤦♂️ why didn't I think of that! I had to record some footage for my DR2 review video a few months ago and I actually found it a LOT harder to do on a monitor, I just had no idea how much the car was sliding and didn't trust it going sideways at all. Hairpins were horrible too 😬 and the scare factor you mention is probably a good thing. I couldn't make it through a stage without a huge crash on desktop whereas in VR I was much safer (and therefore survived much more 😉)
That was a great video!
Glad you enjoyed it 😁 would be interesting to run another test now almost two years later, considering I've gotten even more experience under my belt across more sims and equipment too. Compared to this video I now have an ultrawide 144hz monitor which gives me a lot more peripheral vision and a lot more frames, two things which make it much easier to drive.
@@DDFRacer that would actually be a great video too! Lap time reduction also. I actually watched the video in two parts, that good I went back to finish it off. Just got into the vr side of it myself. Initial tests my lap times decreased especially short sharp chicanes. Always messed these up before always inconsistent. But what vr offers is amazing!
Can you put together a video detailing how you configure VR and iracing settings? I’m struggling to find a sweet spot for frame rates vs graphic quality on iracing and quest 2
Hey James, this is still a work in progress for myself too as I'm dialling in the settings also. What might work for me would be different for yourself as I'm using a CV1 instead of a Quest 2, also running a 3080 card which might skew more settings, especially considering I turn things down an extra step to give me some headroom when streaming. Those kind of videos go out of date _very_ quickly 😅 but more than happy to point you towards the guide I use as a reference: www.reddit.com/r/iRacing/comments/f0ac4p/another_vr_settings_post/
Also, this might be quite useful in your case maybe: www.reddit.com/r/iRacing/comments/rroarl/comment/hqhoooz
@@DDFRacer Hi Dan. Thanks for the links. I think you're right on this one, I've pretty much drawn the same conclusion in the last few days. For me, it's been a balance between oculus settings, what my PC is capable of and iRacing settings. There is no one size fits all setup. I've found a good compromise that's providing good enough visuals with a high stable framerate. I'm really pleased with the results. VR has been a total game changer, couldn't go back to monitor as the depth perception has been key. It feels like the missing piece of the puzzle after all these years. That and upgrading to the CSL DD
You should look into the HP Reverb G2 when it comes out. I have the current Reverb and the resolution is very good. I would say its close to playing on a 1080p monitor for clarity. I don't think I could ever go back to a monitor now.
Awesome, thanks Steven, I'll definitely check it out! I've been using my CV1 for a few years now and will need to upgrade eventually, so it's always nice to know these things in advance 👍 do you find having a headset with a higher resolution is more demanding on the computer though? When I'm racing, streaming, recording, using SimHub, Crewchief and Discord etc at the moment I'm finding I'm getting near to the limit of what my equipment can handle and not sure how much more I can push it 🤔
@@DDFRacer It is more taxing on gpu for sure. I currently have a 1080ti and 8700K. In Raceroom I am still able to run about 115% super sampling as long as I have no more than 20 ai and shadows and few other graphic settings on low. All I use is Crewchief though so not sure how it would do streaming. I am Hoping the 3000 series gpus aren't going to be to crazy expensive when they come out. But I doubt it lol.
One question. Is 1 Sensor enough for simracing. Today, i bought a CV1 with one sensor at ebay.
As far as I'm aware you would definitely need two sensors, as it needs to track depth as well as position. I've had a sensor drop out before and been running on one only and it gets confused, starts to jump all over the place.
@@DDFRacer Thanks a lot for your response.
The rift have now arrived. All plugged in. Everything is recognized. Sensors, HDMI and and and. Steam VR installed and tested. Tracking but no image on the rift . Automobilista 2 launched. Track loaded and again no picture. But on the monitor I see all movements.
Do you have an idea?
Interesting comparisons and observations, not the outcomes I expected to see.
DDF, if you had access to head/eye tracking and ultra wide or triple monitors, do you think that would give you more situational awareness?
I tried TrackIR out a *long* time ago when I used to race in rF1 and I found it didn't really help me too much. The way you need to move your head but keep your eyes fixed on the screen became quite disorientating and made me dizzy, much more so than VR has ever made me 🤔 although I think triples would definitely be an advantage here for situational awareness...but honestly the biggest thing I miss outside of VR is the depth perception. It's incredibly useful to be able to instinctively know exactly how far away objects are and I think that gives me many more cues for racing/driving than any type of monitor would.
I just pre ordered the ps vr 2 to play gt 7. When playing in vr on pc, can you only play in cockpit camera?
Definitely not mate, you can view anything in VR that would be able to if playing on a monitor/TV...although the motion sickness does happen much more easily when the camera is moving around in chase cam or trackside, it's definitely more suited to fixed camera positions. For example, you could grab a beer and go and sit in the stands and spectate a race replay if you wanted to. I've done it a few times before and it's a pretty cool experience 👍
@@DDFRacer thanks mate. I play over the hood
very interesting, thank you for the video. there's really something going on when half of the games showed even better consistency on the monitor than in VR, despite the less comfortable feel for you. hmm...
now I wonder what would the results be for a race pace when mental exhaustion starts to build up. would it be better in VR or would there be some other weird moments that put the monitor higher?
The consistency on a monitor was a big surprise for me also, as I thought it didn't feel too great when I was driving and I wasn't expecting that result at all! I would need to practice *a lot more* on a monitor to be comfortable in the car as I just don't feel like I have as much control as I do compared to VR. With virtual reality I feel like I can react better and understand what's actually happening 🤔
To answer your question about longer races, I can speak from experience having just completed a full season of 1 hour races driving the F1 1996 cars in Automobilsta 1 (no VR of course). It was exhausting. I couldn't concentrate on my chat anywhere near as much and I was making a lot more little mistakes, especially towards the end of the race. I've done plenty of 2 hour races in rFactor 2 in VR and my concentration hasn't been an issue but on a monitor in AMS1...man, my brain was fried 🤣
@@DDFRacer that's interesting. I always was pretty skeptical about VR but you video and comments made me question my attitude :D
Did you have constant 90FPS in ACC?
I certainly did...it look a lot of tweaking of graphics settings and config files but I got there, it doesn't look too fantastic though 😬 ACC is definitely the worst performing sim in VR as far as visuals go but one of the best in terms of enjoyment. I had a 1 hour race against the guys at AUSNZ Simracing the other night and it was one of the best driving experiences I've ever had. The race itself wan't particularly action packed but I was chasing the leader down for pretty much every single lap, giving it everything and the gap varying between 1 and 4 seconds...man, I got lost in the zone big time in ACC like no other sim I've experienced.
Very good video. But the results are altered, it depends largely on what you run usually is what the brain adapts the easiest, if you run 90% of the time with vr these results are expected. The vr monitor switch can be done but it is not instantaneous, the fov will never be the same as you are used to using in vr. I run Oculus and Samsung 49 and I am at least as fast on both. Anyway good video!
Definitely agree with you, and I completely expected to be faster on VR, but I was expecting it to be by a much bigger margin to be honest. The majority of my driving is inside the headset but being forced to use a monitor for AMS1 recently got me thinking about doing this comparison 🤔 with more practice on the monitor on a specific car/track I think I would be the same as you and just as fast in either VR or monitor...but I know it wouldn't feel as easy on a monitor. Glad you enjoyed the video anyway mate, thanks for watching! 😎
So amazing these, i waithing to buy vr. Make frist others choice.
Thanks Paul, glad you enjoyed it! Over the past few months I've been focusing on streaming and racing more than making these style of videos, but I miss a good experiment/project video like this 🤔 I have a few interesting ones in the works at the moment though...
I would love to try VR but I wear glasses (like you). Not sure what it would be like taking my glasses off to wear VR goggles. Not sure I want to pay hundreds of dollars to find out. LOL
I used to race without my glasses when I first got VR but then I found a company called VR Lens Lab who can make custom 3d printed inserts using your prescription 👓👍 they clip inside the headset and it's like having 2020 vision, makes using my oculus so much better!
DDF Racer: oh fantastic thanks I’ll look them up
@@rchelipilot3581 Hi. I use glasses in VR. It works on PSVR and on Rift S, but not the original Rift (not for me at least), so it depends on what headset you are aiming for. On the Rift I put the headset on with the headband first, but now with the Rift S I can mount it with the front part first, then tighten the halo.
You can also do what DDF does, and print the glasses on the outside of the headset. Haven't tried that myself.
Eaglecott Thanks for the info. Ill have to research the VR a bit more to see which one interests me the most
@@eaglecott3806 "Print them on the *outside* of the helmet" 😂 don't think I didn't notice what you did there...
Monitors have less input lag. Easy decision for me. I got faster much quicker when shifting to a low input lag, high refresh rate gaming monitor. I can tell when I have exceeded maximum slip angle much, much faster and react much faster with a monitor than vr.
Interesting 🤔 Aidan Millward made a video a few months ago about the benefits of higher framerates and certainly found some time so what you're saying kind of reinforces that belief too. I can see why the reaction times would be quicker, but I personally found the lack of depth perception made it more difficult to react correctly. Maybe more practice is required 👍
@@DDFRacer VR is definitely more immersive and is easier to find your lines. And FAR more immersive too. It just can't compete with really low input lag gaming monitors. Once I made an effort to go high fps and reduce my input lag there was no looking back. I struggle to race on vr now as I can't find the "edge". It just feels "wrong" having that extra lag.
VR FTW 😀
Oh yeah, I love it! But I was curious to see the pace difference to a monitor after being thrown in at the deep end to an AMS1 F1 1996 championship and...well...I honestly didn't think it would be so close 😬
@@DDFRacer 😀 Good comparision. Btw , SKY here 😄
send me vr and ill tell ya lol
Oh if only it was that easy 😂 I'd love for everyone to try VR at least once and experience what it feels like to actually sit in the car. If I had the money I'd probably end up starting one of those sim racing experience centres 🤔
@@DDFRacer i plan on getting one eventually...semi worried about motion sickness so need to try it first...prolly get back n2 flight sims should i take to it alright
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