in my opinion lilith is only really good in high ranks when your team is grouped and you can heal them, because in lower ranks or casuals when you need to heal 4 people in 4 places of the map someone like jenos is way better
My problem on low rank with Lilith was that I didn't manage to defeat the fast flanks with her. I jumped away the flank followed and killed me. There seemed to be no counter strategy against this.
Yep, I think Jenos is a really great support for solo ranked or casuals because he still has the ability to support your team even when they stray away from being grouped. Not to mention his ult is great at picking up enemies who're grouped.
@@elmercy4968 you shouldn’t be 1v1ing any flanks whatsoever unless they are really low health and isolated. If your team is getting my wiped the best thing to do is run and try to pull a unit or two towards you so your other teammates coming back into the battle can gank them giving you a numbers advantage.
@@cadestockman On low rank you are on your own as support. You teammates wont come back, they only fight or go forward. So an escape ability like Grover's or a good chance to defeat a flank is useful.
I feel like Inara needs a tier of its own.. (SS tier) She is incredibly powerful right now even more so after the speed buff. In addition to her already massive tankiness she now also has a lot more mobility which means she can retreat faster and also dodge more shots + her hitbox is really skinny compared to other tanks such as khan, makoa, raum, azaan etc.. which also makes her harder to hit.
Yup! I agree with that opinion! She really is the least tweaked and most stable champ to date! The set of skills, talents make for a perfect inara, there are quite a few different playstyles and she is truly among my favorite champs!!
Just started playing her two days ago after like 2 years of on and off play. Immediately fell in love and felt borderline immortal at times. Crazy survivability and she can run multiple builds successfully instead of having just one meta kit like most others. I was nuts for sleeping on her. Which is ironic really, bc sleeping on her is something I’d actually do now that she finally has a couple skins that don’t make her look like an ugly rock sculpture….🤔. SS tier, indeed 👌🏻
i’m just getting back into the game, and am curious why Kasumi is in her own tier called “nobody loves you” ? lmao this is a genuine question someone plz help
Honestly, i was convinced BK was crap for the last years, he's not picked a lot, and one out of 2 games, the BK just SUCKS (when he's in your team, ofc) And i played him again lately with grumpy bomb talent, and i had a GREAT time. Powerful, tough to flank, and VERY FUN
Really great tier list, even though I play with a controller I still find this list useful because you've mentioned genuine points about said hero so to me it really helped. I do like these sort of videos from you and I hope to see more in the future for sure.
Oh my, thank you for that Andrew! Finally a recent tierlist (especially for returning players like me) from a trustable friend! I love your work keep up 😊
As someone who's a casual non ranked player this is interesting just because I do want to try some characters and I was between unlocking Moji or Term next. Maybe I shouldn't unlock either yet...
Term is actually a beast against dredge and betty players that don't exactly know what they do, and considering that these are the ice mines meta, Term is really solid there
I'm honestly curious how you can consider terminus top tier. Which loadout do you run ? I love his melee gimmick and his looks, but i cant manage to do anything with him
One thing technically unrelated to the tier list but relevant, calling Seris the "training wheels of the support class" and "noob-friendly", isn't accurate to how actual new Seris's play Is it just holding m2? Yes, but new players don't realize this. They will use M1 and M2 interchangably, and end up playing extremely aggressively, as they have the ability to just go invincible at will and forgive any mistakes they made. Meanwhile, their team is getting sub-par heals thanks to the noob seris hitting the go-invincible button as soon as she takes chip damage. A proper training wheels for support, in my opinion, is Grover. Grover teaches you to stay back by rewarding you with higher damage, while also teaching you to stay close to your team, it is required of you in order to heal people. They have a get-out-of-jail card that isn't nearly as punishing for misusing for you or your team, and a slightly higher health pool and passive regen to help you deal with flanks. Strongly recommend recommending Grover over Seris for new players.
I placed her there in anticipation of her no-reg issue being fixed. Her crowd control is pretty devastating, but ofc resil exists so she can't go any higher.
@@AndrewChicken I enjoy playing tanks so I've tested her recently and the main issue she has is her lack of DR and no card or method to reduce the cooldown of her shield. Also her shield being weaker the farther it is deployed is a detriment to her role. Her CC is great but still her main fire is too weak compared to the damage output of other tanks.
I think B+ is extremely generous. I'd put her at C or below. Really easy to deal with her (full disclosure, experience from casual, maybe ranked Nyxes are better, idk)
sha lin is one of the best characters in the meta rn lmao and calling his dps low is hilarious considering its 1111 plus rapid shot and cripple which adds 300. saati should prob be in strong, and i think some flanks are waaaay too high. finally drogoz is the DEFINITION of a situation pick, gets countered by half the cast and is a throw pick if u choose him anything other than 4th or 5th and their team doesnt counter him. other than that i mostly agree
Waiting for some more pip love LOL as a GM pip main I can tell you that its genuinely advantageous for UA-camrs to place him in situational or bad tiers, because people often don't play those characters like him or evie, thus when people run across a good one, it throws them off even more!!! I do think he is a extremely strong character in lower ranks but just gets marginally worse the more skilled people you come across, and wether or not you are good (ofc) anyway great vid man loved the placements!
Great vid and list! That one that need not be named still needs to leave the game...no one will miss her. Hope Hi-Rez is reading this and hearing you, too. Glad to see some of my mains now back in the A and S tiers. Sweeeeeet!
I am terribly sorry. MAEVE IN THE SAME TIER AS VII? "She also has the mobility to keep pace with him" In your dreams, I am so sorry but that is just not at all true. VII has the highest mobility by a long shot, and out speeds Maeve by about 20 billion lightyears.
@@poxcide6191 i actually like it. If u know what ur doing on him it’s a great survival tool also good to use aggressively. Better than yag, or term ult imo
Imani main here. Love her to death, so I’ll be the first one to say that she definitely fits where you put her. Outside of her dragon, she does not feel very good to play at all. Ice bolts are too slow and the slow effect may as well not even be there. Fire balls don’t do anything unless fully charged (might as well play sha Lin). Abilities have some of the longest CD in the game without running a specific build. Movement is bad without cards. Only her frost bolt talent is viable. She should be a blast to play with a deceptively high skill ceiling…but she just gives me the “why did I pick this champion” feeling
Can someone give me some advice? I've been playing Sky and I max her smoke bomb heal and make it an AOE with the crowd talent. I consistently get top Heals and top damage, and I stay on and around the objective. My win rate is reaching 85% and I don't know if this is a strategy that's going to get stomped at high level play or if it's actually good. People are building illuminate to counter me, but it's not doing much because I'm not overly reliant on the invisibility. I feel like it's a strong build because sky has percent health damage on her darts and she can stand on the tanks face and unload without consuming ammo, getting all critical hits and killing the tank in 2 seconds
I have a lot of minor disagreements with this tierlist on a champion by champion basis, but that's to be expected in something like this. The most outrageous placement is Sha Lin being in C- tier. Keep in mind he received 2 buffs last patch, the first being to his firerate and the second being a 150 buff to his max hp. The base firerate increase only increases his overall dps by 50 dmg per second, but you have to factor in that sha lin was capable of dealing 2300 dmg in ~1.5 seconds of seeing an enemy player before. The extra firerate shaves off a portion of his time to kill which means a lot in a game like paladins. The projectile is so fast its practically hitscan and does not suffer from falloff dmg, meaning with skill it is applied cross map. This crippling burst along with his inbuilt Invisibility makes Sha Lin a terrifying champion to fight - if he catches any squishy out of position it is uniquely easy to burst down and confirm a kill. Crippling burst damage like this cannot be regulated to simply "having a small edge in a duel." In addition to winning nearly all his trades against squishy champions, his tank busting potential is similarly not to be underestimated. Sha lin's rapid shot deals 3125 dmg over 1.8 seconds if you hit all your arrows. Combine that with a sand trap cripple arrow, that's 4425 damage in literally 3 seconds! Tank diving on a prepared Sha Lin is a VERY tough thing to deal with, so you are forced to playing it slow and poking him behind defensive cooldowns. You also lose the matchup involving many common scenarios since you have to push into the enemy backline to get to the Sha lin, such as him receiving a heal, popping ult so he can burn you more effectively and juke your shots, or even simply backing up and jiggle peeking you around cover. Sha lin has always been a nightmare to deal with, even more so considering his buffs. A lot of good players, including myself, have expressively stated they only avoid him because drawing Sha's arrow can randomly cause massive FPS drops and make it harder to hit your shots in practice. Thus the character is exceptionally good until Hirez randomly decides to tank your game. In light of this tierlist however, I don't think you're really being fair to Sha Lin as a Champion. If the game wasn't poorly optimized, Sha Lin would certainly be a strong A tier. As he is now however, he definitely deserves to be above the likes of Tiberius and Viktor.
You can make terminus one of the fastest characters in the game. So I don’t agree with the that spot for him. But he’s definitely on the lower end still.
It is kind of funny to figure out once Androxus got that big change/nerfs, practically all the spam/blasters champs became meta. I missed the old Androxus tho 😢
@Shiny not sure how old you mean so I'll assume recent nerf so I'll assume pre nerf cursed revolver. Let me explain it as simple as possible. 2 headshot = dead flank, dead DPS, low HP tank, dead healer. He was capable of 2 shooting people almost and if your aim wasn't that good you were still able to almost 3 tap body shot for a kill unless they were pocketed. Also reversal is one of the most braindead skills in the game since its free damage and 100% DR if you know what your doing. (Androxus, still in current patch is annoying and a busted character) but cursed revolver is why he got nerfed
@@Darklordn0va Andro and busted now? Damn he is uber mid at best if u are a good andro player (guess what? Most ppl suck with andro) there are way more better picks than andro :v
I agree with the Capsian placement tbh. His measured cadence talent is like useless after the nerf and they changed the way his stacks work. I’ve had to relearn him after the patch, and he’s still playable but not as good.
Seeing Skye in S tier on the thumbnail made wanna ask "Just how did she go from E to S from such a minor buff?". Also, IMO; I'd put Torvald in C Tier, if your enemy team are too stubborn to buy Wrecker. I just don't see how he can be strong if all you need to hard counter him is to buy a perk from the shop. It's basically the same problem with people saying Cauterize being too manditory to buy, back then.
Facts. If other team gets wrecker he is screwed, and those pockets he then gives will get one tapped if team gets wrecker. (Who doesn’t get wrecker against torvald lol) . I say A tier though because hes still good
Vivian is crazy if you can stay alive cause her ultimate stay activitie Morale boost Resilience Guardian Havin Then the talent that increases your damg by 100percent after shooting for 2 seconds
I'm a Seris Main, and I agree with what u said... If u do dmg ur yelled at for ur "Healing" and if u heal ur yelled out for "Damage". I do still love her as a combat medic depending on the team but my highest Heal/Dmg was 100k+ Dmg and 70-80k+ Healing. My heals normally are either burst with my team grouped or Self heal. I also play most supports because of my friend group and fill in for dmg if they can't perform. I dont care for flanks cus high movement while letting my team go off. That said my other Champions i play are Raum often running group heal and ult spam to help/support the team. Or Tyra (For Xbox/Ps) to use burn monster to delete grouped up enemies. (Sorry for grammar or Spelling late in the night)
Don't ever let them shit talk you for healing. If you are a solo healer and you healbot you are a Saint and need to be protected. If you go damage talent as a solo healer your dead to me.
@@Darklordn0va That depends on the enemy team, and mine. Main reason I go for the Dmg talent is when I see the enemy lack of cc or they play around distance. Mainly for the Max Hp and Dmg since Seris autos have no drop off. But if they have alot of cc or played around grouping, or our team doesnt really Flank I'd gladly go the healing cus we will be grouped up. (Either way heals are my priority regardless of talent or team)
Hot take but in my opinion VII is really weak rn. On the one hand you of course have insane movement but in reality I haven´t seen a Vii getting any value in this patch at all. He gets shut down by everything that is good right now
Dawg I feel like you just hate Vii tbh. All he has going for him is his movements now. Everything else is average now. The man isn't what he once was fam. Tbh I honestly think evie out preforms Vii now.
I would argue, there is no real throwpick. Moji can work on a couple of specific maps, but requires to know all her tech (ult anim cancel, ult eat cancel, bhop.....). Basically, if you don't get hardcounters and on the correct maps, she is ok, not great, not throw🤔 for term, ot's like moji, but the draft is more impactfull. They really gotta draft perfectly for term for him to be good. But for example on jaguar he is playable🤔
I hate how Lillith is only getting nerfs because people are just now realizing how strong her healing has always been. Now she’s most likely going to get nerfed to the ground and become unplayable.
@@scythxe10 yeah but noe its significantly higher and its also way easier to manage due to the higher cd so less micro and spam, so she can get a bit of dps, re-position, hex someone, etc
Interesting Tier list. Good stuff! Seeing Nyx in "Average" feels so wrong. You can't tell me a point tank who has zero sustain and cannot hold/take space by herself is a good tank. Even Yagorath is better than her -- at least she has a Mount-speed approach to take space, a hefty-damage reduction once she starts taking fire, then GTFO by curling up and Accelerate-ing away. Nyx feels like a sitting duck in every bad situation she finds herself in.
Once they fix dark stalker andro is gonna be a menace again. I hope term gets buffs soon, more health, a bigger melee range and maybe adding the syphon charge speed card to his base kit would be nice
So... If you know how to hit every Viktor grenade with the hot potato card. You can play Bomb King. I learned that cuz I was asked to play BK in ranked Diamond, and I somehow managed to stomp. I kept playing him and still stomped. He's way easier than I expected and his bombs are pretty much Viktor's grenades but smaller.
Kinda true, but vik cant just constantly blow you up in a duel or detonate them above shields as BK does, his cd reset and throw animation make it even harder to use (not saying vik is hard, I hate that guy as I hate all the rifle dps guys)
@@polarblade1159 I mained Viktor back in the day because of how broken he was if you had good comms with your team. A free Viktor means that the Mid Tank will be in massive trouble, Off Tank with shields would have issues and Viktor can easily poke damage spam and finish enemies with the grenade. I'm just saying that from experience BK's bombs are very easy, I'd say even more easy than Viktor's grenades. It's mostly about being used to the new range and animations.
I think Lilith heals are amazing and deserve S tier! but when it comes to team healing, she really isn't the best unless everyone is grouped up. BTW the amount of times I and other competitive players have accidentally put a blood hex on the opponent instead of your teammate, and gotten them killed is way to much do even say! In my opinion I think and some others can agree that putting blood hex on an opponent is super useless because why give up SOOO much healing just to do tickle damage. To fix this, I think when using only using the Cursed Accord talent, u should not be able to use blood hex on the opponent and only should be able to use on your teammates, making Lilith feel better when it comes to healing! YES Ik her healing is strong and should be nerfed, but if they ever are going to nerf her healing, I think they should also give her a quality of life change and make it so where Her blood hex cannot be used on the opponent when only using the Cursed Accord talent.
++imany is good counter for evie... I mean, me on imany is good counter for evie +snowball not always stop the victim from shooting, I don't know if it's a bug or a feature Imani is only reason why im still in this game. He is complicated. if u miss ur first fireball, u will lose this 1 vs 1. But anyway, she requires more than "just shoot well" (Because half of the icicles and abilities will go into milk, thank you hi-res)
I feel sorry for all those people who will agree with this opinion as truly true, since in my opinion many characters should be changed in some positions. But what's the difference, I want everyone reading this to just enjoy the game and improve their skills on every character they are interested in. (but I hate those people who spread all sorts of crazy thoughts about characters breaking the balance and destroying good characters)
Seris absolutely not a D tier, she can kill almost any dmg 1v1 if you're close quite easily and consistently, and insane zoning in tight spaces coz of her huge AoE projectiles with no falloff dmg, though I never play a pure heal build. She's obviously not broken like Lillith but definitely better than say Rei
Could someone be so nice and explain to me what does it mean that Imani is "buggy"? I just don;t know what to expect, I like her and currently am at lvl24 grinding to 50 :D
You are right pc tier list is completely different from controller because terminus and moji terrorize controller players(I'm a controller player) and skye also I hate playing against a skye main.
Sha lin as a good anti flank champ?For me hes like the hardest damage bc i cant deal with the flanks when i am playing with him bc its so much time to "charge up" the bow when a flank is on me but maybe its just me but like yes i cant play him so i would love to taking some sha lin advice from someone
I think it’s due to the tried and true combo of crippling arrow into rapid shot. Kinda like how Imani’s appeal as an anti-flank is her root and inferno cannon
Just a suggestions for the future have the champion you are talking about in the background for new people just saying names doesn't mean much to someone who doesn't know the champions yet
Easier said than done. Getting a match with all 58 champions is VERY time consuming, and for the sake of not getting repetitive with each video, I'd have to get fresh footage every video or every other video.
@AndrewChicken doesn't have to be game play of them. at least just a picture or something. I had to go watch different video to decide on who I wanted to unlock 1st then
I'd put term in situational tier cuz he just shreds dredge and betty, also skye is still a throw pick imo and I'd put sha at least to b+ for all lobbys plat+, and a to s for top level ranked
@@scythe0003 maybe Tiberius too if you build into defense so he survives vatu's combo and bursts him down with the shoot-swordbomb-shoot combo, but sha is more reliable against him
So you're saying Evie doesn't even reach Average but Vatu is definitely one of the metas? Also do you know why it is intended that Vatu achieves a high damage with his combo attack ? I think , because first of all you can't poke your opponents with Vatu, because the kunais already loses its value at a short range and thus becomes pretty useless. So you have to put yourself in danger with Vatu and get pretty close to your opponents. Let's say he gets nerf and that is a damage nerf. This nerf would have massive impact on one of his core concepts as an assassin. He already has below average pokedamage anyway, a reduction in damage for melee would drive this character into ruin and make him more or less useless as an Asassin flank. And about evie …. U put her defi wrong :)
Eh andro is definitely on a league of his own, counters nearly anyone except for Vivian its impossible to win against a good andro he will single handedly carry the team
Why is Vivian in D tier? Everytime I see someone play her it's always 100k damage with 30kills... She seems like a super solid rifle user with really good supporting abilities...
I am almost 100% with this tier list,I think Tyra is more a B- because if you dont now good positioning you are the worst part of your team,but if you now positioning you are S tier so...maybe that is the reason why you put her in the middle of that
They are not called healers, they are support… that’s why each one had a healing, damage, flank or even “tank” type ability. Also, the dumbest “healing” is from groover… he just need “to be around” 😂
Zhin not at s tier astounds me. He is absolutely dreadful to play in at most levels of play and is painfully easy to understand. I hate all zhin mains with a fiery passion and will emote them at every chance i get for it. But zhin is capable of handeling most situations with a counter capable of nullifying high damage opponents, billow to avoid ults and secure getaways or even heal yourself for a second divw. And your beyblade spin perfect for diving or evading for a quick kill. His entire kit doesnt have vertical mobility but thats quickly fixed when he is hitting you with 600-850+ damage every peak and has the projectile hitbox of vora allowing him TO HIT YOU THROUGH WALLS AROUND CORNERS. Not to mention his ult talent allowing him to effectively 1 shot tanks or off tanks like its nothing. He is situated for basically any situation. There is almost no counterplay. And god forbid you play into shooting his counter, he is immortal if you do. And even if you do somehow manage to do that. All he has to do is billow or dash away make a little space and he has it back.
unless you are the one person in the world who can make them work me with the worm: 😎 nah fr i have a yago addiction im strting to realize im the only one who plays yago regardless of team comp and plays around them instead also nice to see vatu up there based
ANDREW I HAD A GREAT IDEA WHILE WATCHING THIS!!! What if skye's smoke bomb gave her a high bump? Something like pip's first jump in his F ability but stronger! And after using she could still get invisible for 3 to 5 seconds or so. Would give her what she needs (mobility) and still be a fun mechanic! (And would pair well with her recent changes) Do you think that it is worth to try to get this idea to the devs?
@@AndrewChicken well it's still kind of anticlimactic to have a character you want to have it spoken on just get ignored. heck i was thinking you'd actually speak about kasumi more because of how she can either completely dominate or completely be dominated by the meta and which might happen in the future, etc
@@_Flame9029 I understand. Honestly, I just hate Kasumi to the point that I'd rather just ignore her than discuss her for even a moment. Let her fade into the dark depths of the abyss, never to be seen again. She's a total waste of a character slot.
Wtf why is koga not E tier?!?!?!?! I main him and he I'd dogsht dumpster water But to be fair my Wingate when I was regularly playing paladins with koga was 50% which is average but in my heart. Koga is dogsht because you can't grow with the champion, zero potential
You forgot to mention Grover's most powerful ability. Vine crashing people hoping it was an opponent. 😂
Thats only for PC, Grover hasn't been bugged since Caspian released. Even longer for that particular one 😂
I was GM in every season, quit in the middle of Season 4. seeing this TL makes my head spin.. cant belive so much stuff changed
What platform do you play on?
in my opinion lilith is only really good in high ranks when your team is grouped and you can heal them, because in lower ranks or casuals when you need to heal 4 people in 4 places of the map someone like jenos is way better
My problem on low rank with Lilith was that I didn't manage to defeat the fast flanks with her. I jumped away the flank followed and killed me. There seemed to be no counter strategy against this.
best way to say it
Yep, I think Jenos is a really great support for solo ranked or casuals because he still has the ability to support your team even when they stray away from being grouped. Not to mention his ult is great at picking up enemies who're grouped.
@@elmercy4968 you shouldn’t be 1v1ing any flanks whatsoever unless they are really low health and isolated. If your team is getting my wiped the best thing to do is run and try to pull a unit or two towards you so your other teammates coming back into the battle can gank them giving you a numbers advantage.
@@cadestockman On low rank you are on your own as support. You teammates wont come back, they only fight or go forward. So an escape ability like Grover's or a good chance to defeat a flank is useful.
Moji somehow having a consistent statistical win rate despite being the bottom of every single tier list video known to man: *I AM INEVITABLE*
I assume Moji is simply frustrating if you are bad with her. Being bad at Lex is more fun.
And here I recently reached masters with Moji lmao
Might just be loyal mains?
@@MajinNova786 On what platform? What’s your in-game name?
@The monster Within last year na pc UndeadNova. This year eu pc KittenSmitten66
I feel like Inara needs a tier of its own.. (SS tier) She is incredibly powerful right now even more so after the speed buff. In addition to her already massive tankiness she now also has a lot more mobility which means she can retreat faster and also dodge more shots + her hitbox is really skinny compared to other tanks such as khan, makoa, raum, azaan etc.. which also makes her harder to hit.
Yup! I agree with that opinion! She really is the least tweaked and most stable champ to date! The set of skills, talents make for a perfect inara, there are quite a few different playstyles and she is truly among my favorite champs!!
Just started playing her two days ago after like 2 years of on and off play. Immediately fell in love and felt borderline immortal at times. Crazy survivability and she can run multiple builds successfully instead of having just one meta kit like most others.
I was nuts for sleeping on her. Which is ironic really, bc sleeping on her is something I’d actually do now that she finally has a couple skins that don’t make her look like an ugly rock sculpture….🤔.
SS tier, indeed 👌🏻
1:40 The problem is every Paladins player from Bronze V to GM thinks they're the one player who can force a garbage champion to Masters.
In case of a gm, they'll succeed as the bad char drops their elo
i’m just getting back into the game, and am curious why Kasumi is in her own tier called “nobody loves you” ? lmao this is a genuine question someone plz help
Love a tierlist. I get flamed picking BK cuz people seem to have no clue how strong he is.
I doubt you’ve been flamed. Just about Everyone knows how good BK is
Hes banned literally every game I play
Welp bk has to be good to be good :) I rarely see even decent bks XD
BK is either strong or weak he is never in the middle
Honestly, i was convinced BK was crap for the last years, he's not picked a lot, and one out of 2 games, the BK just SUCKS (when he's in your team, ofc)
And i played him again lately with grumpy bomb talent, and i had a GREAT time. Powerful, tough to flank, and VERY FUN
Really great tier list, even though I play with a controller I still find this list useful because you've mentioned genuine points about said hero so to me it really helped. I do like these sort of videos from you and I hope to see more in the future for sure.
Oh my, thank you for that Andrew! Finally a recent tierlist (especially for returning players like me) from a trustable friend!
I love your work keep up 😊
As someone who's a casual non ranked player this is interesting just because I do want to try some characters and I was between unlocking Moji or Term next. Maybe I shouldn't unlock either yet...
no, you should, matches could be as lost same as won
Don't let this video discourage you from giving them a try if you think they're interesting!
Also low skilled lobbies last way too long me and my friend are both above level 200 but we still get teammates and enemies who are really dumb
Term is actually a beast against dredge and betty players that don't exactly know what they do, and considering that these are the ice mines meta, Term is really solid there
S-Tier: enjoying yourself regardless of winning or losing.
Moji and term are very unique and fun to mess around with
Hey! I was the Jenos in the game in frog isle. Your defense was insane!
As a controller-player, seeing Terminus and Moji at the lowest rank sortta breaks my heart 💔. Two of the top tier champs in controller games
This is his tierlist so his opinion. You can make your own tierlist and put those 2 on top
I'm honestly curious how you can consider terminus top tier. Which loadout do you run ? I love his melee gimmick and his looks, but i cant manage to do anything with him
Finally found a video to watch while I eat my dinner!! Love your videos Andrew!!
your tierlists are always awesome bro. Keep up the good work
One thing technically unrelated to the tier list but relevant, calling Seris the "training wheels of the support class" and "noob-friendly", isn't accurate to how actual new Seris's play
Is it just holding m2? Yes, but new players don't realize this. They will use M1 and M2 interchangably, and end up playing extremely aggressively, as they have the ability to just go invincible at will and forgive any mistakes they made. Meanwhile, their team is getting sub-par heals thanks to the noob seris hitting the go-invincible button as soon as she takes chip damage.
A proper training wheels for support, in my opinion, is Grover. Grover teaches you to stay back by rewarding you with higher damage, while also teaching you to stay close to your team, it is required of you in order to heal people. They have a get-out-of-jail card that isn't nearly as punishing for misusing for you or your team, and a slightly higher health pool and passive regen to help you deal with flanks. Strongly recommend recommending Grover over Seris for new players.
Nyx on "average" is particularly funny when Kreepers straight up called her garbage, even after her recent buffs.
I placed her there in anticipation of her no-reg issue being fixed. Her crowd control is pretty devastating, but ofc resil exists so she can't go any higher.
@@AndrewChicken I enjoy playing tanks so I've tested her recently and the main issue she has is her lack of DR and no card or method to reduce the cooldown of her shield. Also her shield being weaker the farther it is deployed is a detriment to her role. Her CC is great but still her main fire is too weak compared to the damage output of other tanks.
I think B+ is extremely generous. I'd put her at C or below. Really easy to deal with her (full disclosure, experience from casual, maybe ranked Nyxes are better, idk)
He called kasumi bad even when she was OP
sha lin is one of the best characters in the meta rn lmao and calling his dps low is hilarious considering its 1111 plus rapid shot and cripple which adds 300. saati should prob be in strong, and i think some flanks are waaaay too high. finally drogoz is the DEFINITION of a situation pick, gets countered by half the cast and is a throw pick if u choose him anything other than 4th or 5th and their team doesnt counter him. other than that i mostly agree
Waiting for some more pip love LOL as a GM pip main I can tell you that its genuinely advantageous for UA-camrs to place him in situational or bad tiers, because people often don't play those characters like him or evie, thus when people run across a good one, it throws them off even more!!! I do think he is a extremely strong character in lower ranks but just gets marginally worse the more skilled people you come across, and wether or not you are good (ofc) anyway great vid man loved the placements!
I went up against a flank flying inara. Absolutely destroyed out team when she jumped into the backlines. She's scary lol
Great vid and list! That one that need not be named still needs to leave the game...no one will miss her. Hope Hi-Rez is reading this and hearing you, too. Glad to see some of my mains now back in the A and S tiers. Sweeeeeet!
I couldn’t wait for this to be posted
I am terribly sorry.
MAEVE IN THE SAME TIER AS VII?
"She also has the mobility to keep pace with him"
In your dreams, I am so sorry but that is just not at all true.
VII has the highest mobility by a long shot, and out speeds Maeve by about 20 billion lightyears.
We demand an Ultimate tier list Andrew
Strix at the bottom
@@poxcide6191 i actually like it. If u know what ur doing on him it’s a great survival tool also good to use aggressively. Better than yag, or term ult imo
@@poxcide6191 Challenged hard by Io.
@@elmoktaeb4228 terrible take
@@1onewonwun when are u ever hitting anyone with term ult tho😭. Flashbang provides s tiny bit of utility at least
Imani main here. Love her to death, so I’ll be the first one to say that she definitely fits where you put her. Outside of her dragon, she does not feel very good to play at all. Ice bolts are too slow and the slow effect may as well not even be there. Fire balls don’t do anything unless fully charged (might as well play sha Lin). Abilities have some of the longest CD in the game without running a specific build. Movement is bad without cards. Only her frost bolt talent is viable. She should be a blast to play with a deceptively high skill ceiling…but she just gives me the “why did I pick this champion” feeling
Been waiting for this video!
Can someone give me some advice? I've been playing Sky and I max her smoke bomb heal and make it an AOE with the crowd talent. I consistently get top Heals and top damage, and I stay on and around the objective. My win rate is reaching 85% and I don't know if this is a strategy that's going to get stomped at high level play or if it's actually good. People are building illuminate to counter me, but it's not doing much because I'm not overly reliant on the invisibility. I feel like it's a strong build because sky has percent health damage on her darts and she can stand on the tanks face and unload without consuming ammo, getting all critical hits and killing the tank in 2 seconds
I have a lot of minor disagreements with this tierlist on a champion by champion basis, but that's to be expected in something like this. The most outrageous placement is Sha Lin being in C- tier. Keep in mind he received 2 buffs last patch, the first being to his firerate and the second being a 150 buff to his max hp. The base firerate increase only increases his overall dps by 50 dmg per second, but you have to factor in that sha lin was capable of dealing 2300 dmg in ~1.5 seconds of seeing an enemy player before. The extra firerate shaves off a portion of his time to kill which means a lot in a game like paladins. The projectile is so fast its practically hitscan and does not suffer from falloff dmg, meaning with skill it is applied cross map. This crippling burst along with his inbuilt Invisibility makes Sha Lin a terrifying champion to fight - if he catches any squishy out of position it is uniquely easy to burst down and confirm a kill. Crippling burst damage like this cannot be regulated to simply "having a small edge in a duel."
In addition to winning nearly all his trades against squishy champions, his tank busting potential is similarly not to be underestimated. Sha lin's rapid shot deals 3125 dmg over 1.8 seconds if you hit all your arrows. Combine that with a sand trap cripple arrow, that's 4425 damage in literally 3 seconds! Tank diving on a prepared Sha Lin is a VERY tough thing to deal with, so you are forced to playing it slow and poking him behind defensive cooldowns. You also lose the matchup involving many common scenarios since you have to push into the enemy backline to get to the Sha lin, such as him receiving a heal, popping ult so he can burn you more effectively and juke your shots, or even simply backing up and jiggle peeking you around cover.
Sha lin has always been a nightmare to deal with, even more so considering his buffs. A lot of good players, including myself, have expressively stated they only avoid him because drawing Sha's arrow can randomly cause massive FPS drops and make it harder to hit your shots in practice. Thus the character is exceptionally good until Hirez randomly decides to tank your game. In light of this tierlist however, I don't think you're really being fair to Sha Lin as a Champion. If the game wasn't poorly optimized, Sha Lin would certainly be a strong A tier. As he is now however, he definitely deserves to be above the likes of Tiberius and Viktor.
Thanks for putting my boy vii AT LEAST above B tier. Absolutely deserving of an A or S tier!
You can make terminus one of the fastest characters in the game. So I don’t agree with the that spot for him. But he’s definitely on the lower end still.
It is kind of funny to figure out once Androxus got that big change/nerfs, practically all the spam/blasters champs became meta. I missed the old Androxus tho 😢
Ye andro got deleted and nobody knows why XD
@Shiny not sure how old you mean so I'll assume recent nerf so I'll assume pre nerf cursed revolver. Let me explain it as simple as possible.
2 headshot = dead flank, dead DPS, low HP tank, dead healer.
He was capable of 2 shooting people almost and if your aim wasn't that good you were still able to almost 3 tap body shot for a kill unless they were pocketed. Also reversal is one of the most braindead skills in the game since its free damage and 100% DR if you know what your doing. (Androxus, still in current patch is annoying and a busted character) but cursed revolver is why he got nerfed
@@Darklordn0va Andro and busted now? Damn he is uber mid at best if u are a good andro player (guess what? Most ppl suck with andro) there are way more better picks than andro :v
I like how the bottom 4 tiers are double the champions in the previous tier
I feel like terminus case we can give him shatterfall in base kit and give him more health and a new talent to make up the fact that he is melee
I agree with the Capsian placement tbh. His measured cadence talent is like useless after the nerf and they changed the way his stacks work. I’ve had to relearn him after the patch, and he’s still playable but not as good.
Oddly enough I didn’t learn support through Seris, but through Grover
Seeing Skye in S tier on the thumbnail made wanna ask "Just how did she go from E to S from such a minor buff?".
Also, IMO; I'd put Torvald in C Tier, if your enemy team are too stubborn to buy Wrecker. I just don't see how he can be strong if all you need to hard counter him is to buy a perk from the shop. It's basically the same problem with people saying Cauterize being too manditory to buy, back then.
Facts. If other team gets wrecker he is screwed, and those pockets he then gives will get one tapped if team gets wrecker. (Who doesn’t get wrecker against torvald lol) . I say A tier though because hes still good
People hard counter by picking double damage in ranked then wrecker and the enemy's entire team support is gone
Torvalds silence still screws over a lot of flankers with his silence
Vivian is crazy if you can stay alive cause her ultimate stay activitie
Morale boost
Resilience
Guardian
Havin
Then the talent that increases your damg by 100percent after shooting for 2 seconds
I'm a Seris Main, and I agree with what u said... If u do dmg ur yelled at for ur "Healing" and if u heal ur yelled out for "Damage". I do still love her as a combat medic depending on the team but my highest Heal/Dmg was 100k+ Dmg and 70-80k+ Healing. My heals normally are either burst with my team grouped or Self heal. I also play most supports because of my friend group and fill in for dmg if they can't perform. I dont care for flanks cus high movement while letting my team go off. That said my other Champions i play are Raum often running group heal and ult spam to help/support the team. Or Tyra (For Xbox/Ps) to use burn monster to delete grouped up enemies. (Sorry for grammar or Spelling late in the night)
Don't ever let them shit talk you for healing. If you are a solo healer and you healbot you are a Saint and need to be protected. If you go damage talent as a solo healer your dead to me.
@@Darklordn0va That depends on the enemy team, and mine. Main reason I go for the Dmg talent is when I see the enemy lack of cc or they play around distance. Mainly for the Max Hp and Dmg since Seris autos have no drop off. But if they have alot of cc or played around grouping, or our team doesnt really Flank I'd gladly go the healing cus we will be grouped up. (Either way heals are my priority regardless of talent or team)
Hot take but in my opinion VII is really weak rn. On the one hand you of course have insane movement but in reality I haven´t seen a Vii getting any value in this patch at all. He gets shut down by everything that is good right now
He gets countered really hard
One thing I tend to think helps with playing as a terminus is to siphon over your ally over siphoning over yourself.
Dawg I feel like you just hate Vii tbh. All he has going for him is his movements now. Everything else is average now. The man isn't what he once was fam. Tbh I honestly think evie out preforms Vii now.
I would argue, there is no real throwpick. Moji can work on a couple of specific maps, but requires to know all her tech (ult anim cancel, ult eat cancel, bhop.....). Basically, if you don't get hardcounters and on the correct maps, she is ok, not great, not throw🤔
for term, ot's like moji, but the draft is more impactfull. They really gotta draft perfectly for term for him to be good. But for example on jaguar he is playable🤔
I haven't played paladins in a minute, and already guessed corvus wasn't gonna be that high. RIP 😭
I hate how Lillith is only getting nerfs because people are just now realizing how strong her healing has always been. Now she’s most likely going to get nerfed to the ground and become unplayable.
nah she wasnt as good before, shes crazy because her swarm uptime is well over 100% now
Her swarm uptime was 100% back then as well because of the short cooldown.
@@scythxe10 yeah but noe its significantly higher and its also way easier to manage due to the higher cd so less micro and spam, so she can get a bit of dps, re-position, hex someone, etc
Interesting Tier list. Good stuff!
Seeing Nyx in "Average" feels so wrong. You can't tell me a point tank who has zero sustain and cannot hold/take space by herself is a good tank. Even Yagorath is better than her -- at least she has a Mount-speed approach to take space, a hefty-damage reduction once she starts taking fire, then GTFO by curling up and Accelerate-ing away. Nyx feels like a sitting duck in every bad situation she finds herself in.
Once they fix dark stalker andro is gonna be a menace again.
I hope term gets buffs soon, more health, a bigger melee range and maybe adding the syphon charge speed card to his base kit would be nice
Hum...YES please !!!
Jenos being pick or ban in every controller game rn
Putting my Gurl seris in the thumbnail in S tier and then stuffed her into D tier in the actual video like WHAT 😭
So... If you know how to hit every Viktor grenade with the hot potato card. You can play Bomb King. I learned that cuz I was asked to play BK in ranked Diamond, and I somehow managed to stomp. I kept playing him and still stomped. He's way easier than I expected and his bombs are pretty much Viktor's grenades but smaller.
Kinda true, but vik cant just constantly blow you up in a duel or detonate them above shields as BK does, his cd reset and throw animation make it even harder to use (not saying vik is hard, I hate that guy as I hate all the rifle dps guys)
@@polarblade1159 I mained Viktor back in the day because of how broken he was if you had good comms with your team. A free Viktor means that the Mid Tank will be in massive trouble, Off Tank with shields would have issues and Viktor can easily poke damage spam and finish enemies with the grenade. I'm just saying that from experience BK's bombs are very easy, I'd say even more easy than Viktor's grenades. It's mostly about being used to the new range and animations.
where is io?
Been loving Tremors Inara on payload, not letting the other team close to the cart 😂
Why did he skip Kasumi? Im new
I think Lilith heals are amazing and deserve S tier! but when it comes to team healing, she really isn't the best unless everyone is grouped up. BTW the amount of times I and other competitive players have accidentally put a blood hex on the opponent instead of your teammate, and gotten them killed is way to much do even say! In my opinion I think and some others can agree that putting blood hex on an opponent is super useless because why give up SOOO much healing just to do tickle damage. To fix this, I think when using only using the Cursed Accord talent, u should not be able to use blood hex on the opponent and only should be able to use on your teammates, making Lilith feel better when it comes to healing! YES Ik her healing is strong and should be nerfed, but if they ever are going to nerf her healing, I think they should also give her a quality of life change and make it so where Her blood hex cannot be used on the opponent when only using the Cursed Accord talent.
that's a skill issue...
here after not playing paladins since like 2017 lmfao... lets see where this goes!!!
I love terminus, I don’t think he’s that bad. I destory people in casuals. I guess he sucks in ranked I haven’t tried him in ranked yet.
Oh boy here we go - before I watch the video
you should cover your face with a picture of evie cuz its weird seeing your face but different words coming out 😂
Or show the whole tier list.
Think you're overselling Torvald post nerf. 500 extra shield and 250 additional recharge compared to his prebuff state and no one respected him then.
++imany is good counter for evie... I mean, me on imany is good counter for evie
+snowball not always stop the victim from shooting, I don't know if it's a bug or a feature
Imani is only reason why im still in this game. He is complicated. if u miss ur first fireball, u will lose this 1 vs 1. But anyway, she requires more than "just shoot well" (Because half of the icicles and abilities will go into milk, thank you hi-res)
I feel sorry for all those people who will agree with this opinion as truly true, since in my opinion many characters should be changed in some positions. But what's the difference, I want everyone reading this to just enjoy the game and improve their skills on every character they are interested in. (but I hate those people who spread all sorts of crazy thoughts about characters breaking the balance and destroying good characters)
Could you make a video about positioning, plz? It would be pretty helpful
This new meta surprises me in a lot if ways wow. I gotta get back in lmao I main evie, Ying and like willow so very unconventional characters 🤧💗
I still find it crazy to see skye down so low now and makoa being so high. I swear I've killed makoa so easily in the past
Seris absolutely not a D tier, she can kill almost any dmg 1v1 if you're close quite easily and consistently, and insane zoning in tight spaces coz of her huge AoE projectiles with no falloff dmg, though I never play a pure heal build. She's obviously not broken like Lillith but definitely better than say Rei
Terminus should have auto regenerating calamity charges imo.
where to find konfigurations?
Could someone be so nice and explain to me what does it mean that Imani is "buggy"? I just don;t know what to expect, I like her and currently am at lvl24 grinding to 50 :D
You are right pc tier list is completely different from controller because terminus and moji terrorize controller players(I'm a controller player) and skye also I hate playing against a skye main.
Is Vatu really that good? I always thought he was super mid
he is cancer level 4
but he need high skills to use him and good aim
Seeing imani in D tier hurts since I’m an imani main and I love playing her :(
Sha lin as a good anti flank champ?For me hes like the hardest damage bc i cant deal with the flanks when i am playing with him bc its so much time to "charge up" the bow when a flank is on me but maybe its just me but like yes i cant play him so i would love to taking some sha lin advice from someone
I think it’s due to the tried and true combo of crippling arrow into rapid shot. Kinda like how Imani’s appeal as an anti-flank is her root and inferno cannon
Just a suggestions for the future have the champion you are talking about in the background for new people just saying names doesn't mean much to someone who doesn't know the champions yet
Easier said than done. Getting a match with all 58 champions is VERY time consuming, and for the sake of not getting repetitive with each video, I'd have to get fresh footage every video or every other video.
@AndrewChicken doesn't have to be game play of them. at least just a picture or something. I had to go watch different video to decide on who I wanted to unlock 1st then
Can this be carried to Console?
No he said this is his opinion for playing on keyboard, characters good on keyboard are not always good with controller, Vice versa
Is there still a pro scene for paladins?
I'd put term in situational tier cuz he just shreds dredge and betty, also skye is still a throw pick imo and I'd put sha at least to b+ for all lobbys plat+, and a to s for top level ranked
Sha is S tier for the simple reason hes the only damage who counters vatu
@@scythe0003 maybe Tiberius too if you build into defense so he survives vatu's combo and bursts him down with the shoot-swordbomb-shoot combo, but sha is more reliable against him
I'd def have to put raum....even yag in the B- category. Great vid though.
ONLY because of the 'in the right hands'...I'd let some people play raum/yag into anything.
Maybe it's bc Pc but corvus is definitely the 2nd best support behind lillith.
So you're saying Evie doesn't even reach Average but Vatu is definitely one of the metas?
Also do you know why it is intended that Vatu achieves a high damage with his combo attack ? I think , because first of all you can't poke your opponents with Vatu, because the kunais already loses its value at a short range and thus becomes pretty useless. So you have to put yourself in danger with Vatu and get pretty close to your opponents. Let's say he gets nerf and that is a damage nerf. This nerf would have massive impact on one of his core concepts as an assassin. He already has below average pokedamage anyway, a reduction in damage for melee would drive this character into ruin and make him more or less useless as an Asassin flank.
And about evie …. U put her defi wrong :)
do more of these tierlists pls
With the Khan buffs, I dont agree with his B+ and would say is alot higher.
I love moji aesthetically and in fun so not being meta is sad
You didnt mention flank rei, i play her in an aggro way and no one can 1v1 me. Not even vatu or saati, no oneee
Drogoz maybe with fusi, direct spit, shouldnt take more than 3 hits
Are yu sure??😂😂
Eh andro is definitely on a league of his own, counters nearly anyone except for Vivian its impossible to win against a good andro he will single handedly carry the team
i was so confused when i saw drogoz in A tier
Why is Vivian in D tier? Everytime I see someone play her it's always 100k damage with 30kills... She seems like a super solid rifle user with really good supporting abilities...
Every flank in the game pretty much just destroys her. She’s a menace in low level play, but against smart players she has nothing.
@@OriginalSystem37 oh damn, hmm okay. I thought about buying her, but might buy Lian instead
@@Crimson50 Definitely a better choice.
@@OriginalSystem37 Yeah, Been mostly playing Dredge, Tiberius and a bit of Tyra recently
I am almost 100% with this tier list,I think Tyra is more a B- because if you dont now good positioning you are the worst part of your team,but if you now positioning you are S tier so...maybe that is the reason why you put her in the middle of that
This list is assuming you’ve mastered the champion, so thats why shes A
They are not called healers, they are support… that’s why each one had a healing, damage, flank or even “tank” type ability.
Also, the dumbest “healing” is from groover… he just need “to be around” 😂
Zhin not at s tier astounds me. He is absolutely dreadful to play in at most levels of play and is painfully easy to understand. I hate all zhin mains with a fiery passion and will emote them at every chance i get for it. But zhin is capable of handeling most situations with a counter capable of nullifying high damage opponents, billow to avoid ults and secure getaways or even heal yourself for a second divw. And your beyblade spin perfect for diving or evading for a quick kill. His entire kit doesnt have vertical mobility but thats quickly fixed when he is hitting you with 600-850+ damage every peak and has the projectile hitbox of vora allowing him TO HIT YOU THROUGH WALLS AROUND CORNERS. Not to mention his ult talent allowing him to effectively 1 shot tanks or off tanks like its nothing. He is situated for basically any situation. There is almost no counterplay. And god forbid you play into shooting his counter, he is immortal if you do. And even if you do somehow manage to do that. All he has to do is billow or dash away make a little space and he has it back.
unless you are the one person in the world who can make them work
me with the worm:
😎
nah fr i have a yago addiction
im strting to realize im the only one who plays yago regardless of team comp and plays around them instead
also nice to see vatu up there based
Oh how console is so different I’m in diamond an every single game terminus is banned, not even just banned first picked to be banned. His alt too op
Why isn’t jenos in S tier?
Why Fernando so low? Dude is goat
id put drogoz in situational and vii in s tier. otherwise good list
does anyone still use the atlas?
ANDREW I HAD A GREAT IDEA WHILE WATCHING THIS!!! What if skye's smoke bomb gave her a high bump? Something like pip's first jump in his F ability but stronger! And after using she could still get invisible for 3 to 5 seconds or so. Would give her what she needs (mobility) and still be a fun mechanic! (And would pair well with her recent changes) Do you think that it is worth to try to get this idea to the devs?
I went against Raventric's buck. its s tier
Maeve has DR after using pounce with cards tho...
Yes, but not during the pounce. Key difference.
I swear I thought it was a bug that vatu had damage reduction on dash
What kinda moronic idea was that
when your main is in the E tier :')
apparently no one even likes my main, you're in a good enough spot
I love terminus I destroy people in casuals with him, I guess he’s not good in ranked I haven’t tried him in ranked yet.
@@zgbenzz yeah playing against term in casual is an actual f_cking nightmare, too many people feeding his siphon
why did you skip most characters?
A lot of characters in the middle aren't interesting to talk about, and the video still lasted almost 40 minutes even though I skipped a lot.
@@AndrewChicken well it's still kind of anticlimactic to have a character you want to have it spoken on just get ignored.
heck i was thinking you'd actually speak about kasumi more because of how she can either completely dominate or completely be dominated by the meta and which might happen in the future, etc
@@_Flame9029 I understand. Honestly, I just hate Kasumi to the point that I'd rather just ignore her than discuss her for even a moment. Let her fade into the dark depths of the abyss, never to be seen again. She's a total waste of a character slot.
Wtf why is koga not E tier?!?!?!?! I main him and he I'd dogsht dumpster water
But to be fair my Wingate when I was regularly playing paladins with koga was 50% which is average but in my heart. Koga is dogsht because you can't grow with the champion, zero potential