Is there a 4th method for pommel attachment?
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- Опубліковано 7 лип 2024
- Kingdom Come Deliverance is meant to be historically accurate. But they show something I've never seen before. Can you really attach a pommel through wedged compression alone?
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I found the biggest historical inaccuracy to be that Henry can't climb stairs... I have it on pretty good authority that people in 15th century Bohemia COULD infact easily climb stairs. Most historians agree on this matter.
show me any evidence that 15th century Bohemians could climb stairs while holding 2 deers' worth of meat in their pockets
....this has what to do with this video?
KnightSquire Dude I've seen armor marionetted by ghost in daylight.
The only Henry in history I know of that couldn't and wouldnt climb stairs is Henry VIII.
Nonsense! It is well known that 15th century Bohemians had great difficulties, in climbing ladders and that they would occasionally start flying ...or just suddenly disappearing, without a trace. Also, it is well established that they could lock-pick a horses arse, with great ease!
I was more concerned about where the point was resting as he pounded the pommel
As others mentioned, in the scene where sir Radzig comes, the sword now magically has a pean. I suppose they either recorded the scene and did not have the resources to do it again so they at least added a pean in the next one, or simply wanted to make the already quite long cutscene a bit shorter.
00Trademark00 they said in a interview they had to take out some cut scenes because of lack of funds
If you look at the pommel of sword you can see a pean so I think they might have just animated it wrong.
H.Walker yup. There is a peen block after it cuts away for a minute. I think it was both wedged and peened. Wedged through to extend the tang and then peened
Why are you blinking so much?
with that pummel you can't end him rightly
will at this time frame threading the tang is not possible because of the technology
Ohh Henry is a Pommel and you where Raised by a Blacksmith
yeah, one could guess is that the animator(s) in charge of that particular scene were just not as informed as many enthusiasts of historical sword making. But I would venture that its more likely that the were less focused on that actual historical processes and more in making sure the wireframe animation hotspots don't clip, and that the texture and lighting effects rendered well.
Probably they didn't want to change the animation of the guy hammering the pommel to account for the extended tang, so they shortened it for the scene, the sword looks like its peened later.
I had the same reaction during this cut-scene when I first saw this, however it does appear to be peened in the final model.
I noticed the same thing as well when I looked at the bottom of the pommel on his sword. I guess they just got lazy in the cut scene.
Crimsonfang I wouldn't use the word lazy. The main director of the game said things had to be cut because of budget. Its more than being "lazy"
Art Attack really hope a bunch of shit gets added later on. Kingdom come is a wonderful game but man it’s really missin some stuff. Maces and axes aren’t balanced right. You can’t carry a pole arm places with you so no heavy fighters. Ladders don’t work, stairs don’t work (both don’t work at times) oh and the late game balance needs work. With dlc and work though I see this game becoming one of the best rpgs ever
T Kay I dont think there will be dlc. I know next week a huge patch is coming out to all platforms. But yeah there are bugs and things that need to be tweeked.
I'm a game developer. I can think of a few ways you could animate the sword tang to look like it being peened but all of them would be very resources heavy and time consuming for the payoff. There are four basic ways to change an objects shape. you could change the model on the processor. this is very slow in most cases and is usually used for things like combining models so that it render more efficiently basically technical non animation type stuff. the other three ways are all done on the graphics card. One method is bones great for animating arms and legs but not great for things being mushed like hammered metal. The two most likely methods would be vertex animations. One is a method called shape keys. this is how changing faces in character creators are done. in the case of peening you would need a version of the tang not peened and one peened all the way. you then match the 3d points from one copy to the other and mathematically move them in between the two extreams so that it looks like the tang is slowly being peened into another shape. because of the shapes involved this would take a lot of points that multiplied by the need of having two copy's of the tang and the math of blending from unpeened to peened would be a lot of system resources for a game that is already very heavy. The last method could be a little better. you could store the peened shape in a texture and use a shader (the little programs graphics cards use to know how to draw and object) to move the 3d points around this would use less system resources but programing shaders are very technically difficult and time consuming. often development teams will only have one shader developer that goes beyond basic customizing. All in all animating peening would be a pain in the rear and not worth it if you wont be ding it alot.
I speculate that some blacksmith that worked with them showed them a few methods, this being one possible method, and they might have chosen the easiest to animate.
could also be that the method was intentional by the character. make it easier to remove the pommel and grip.
I noticed it too and I think it was just a problem of rendering something so detailed and small for programmers
when I first saw that I assumed it was like a smash rivet, where the hole in the pommel flares out on the inside. If the pommel is hardened and the peg on the tang isn't it could work. But I have never heard of or seen that
Do you have any idea how much work rigging, and animating the deformation of the exposed tang in a real-time 3D engine? It could genuinely take a couple afternoons.
In my mind, this is the real reason.
Kick Saunders or minutes...
It would basically be one simple blend shape. They went trough building all the separate pieces, so this would not be much additional work. Or does CryEngine not support blend shapes? Doing it with bone animation would be kind of tedious.
And that would be over-doing it! Considering the speed of the deformation, a single-frame, model-swap, could do the trick...
A full model swap would be more resource-heavy than a blend shape (full geometry vs. only vertex positions) for a worse result (a blend shape could be animated in a few steps, just like the pommel we see hammered down as it is now). All assuming that CryEngine does support blend shapes and the pipeline for those is not totally messed up, compared to other engines.
@TheWallF
I'm not familiar with CryEngine. In fact, I kinda took for granted the fact that it would be done with bone animation... Hmm... Blend shape... Good thinking.
Once the sword is complete it has a peen block and is peened. I think that was meant to be them peening the sword together, but they shorted the tang so that they would not have to animate it compressing.
Hey, nice review but I think he did pinned the pommel. At 6:28, you can see a peen sticking out at the bottom of the pommel. They probably made the pommel already snug fit and add a pin later.
Every time I see Henry try and use the sword for the first time I can't help but laugh. Every. Damn. Time.
New sub here found this channel whilst looking at KCD video's, and you have a very good channel here keeping history alive love it !!
Maybe it's not so far fetched, the Morse Taper has been around for at least a century but tapers were used before Morse quantify the taper as a way to hold tools in machinery. This technology may of had it's beginning in sword making. Even today, the Morse Taper is used for both high speed and high torque machining processing.
I've not played the game, but after watching a couple of reviews/play thoughs (that included that clip), I had assumed the pommel was a friction/interference fit, but the tang was long enough to peen to hold it all together once the pommel was in place.
You're quite correct that wedges were and are quite common in woodwork. They were also used in early steam engines, Jay Leno has such an engine in his collection. Pull the headstock of a bicycle apart and you'll find a type of wedge there as well. So I could see someone doing this as a means of attaching the pommel.
They might have used an old wood working idea of dehydrating the wood hilt. Then you put it all together, then you re hydrate the wood causing it to expand and make a super tight fit.
i am a blacksmith,been doing it for years,one possible method would be to have the tang slightly larger than the hole in the pommel, heat the pommel to a dull red,install onto the unheated tang,..as the pommel cools it will contract ,this method is sometimes just as strong as a weld ,although i have not seen this method done in sword construction ,this method of joining two pieces of steel was quite common
I had noticed this when I was playing myself, however I noticed that right after the scene where he hammered on the pummel that it was peened.
I think the animators were given just a verbal explanation of what to animate, and misunderstood the peening process and came up with that.
Probably the most legit explanation.
I wouldn't do it the way that they did it, but I've occasionally thought of something similar.
If one could heat the end of the tang and the pommel at the same time (without burning the handle components), then hammering the pommel onto the tang could cause a forge weld between the tang and pommel. If I were doing this, I'd want the tang to be just hot enough to expand slightly. This would make the tang a little longer during the process. Heating the pommel more would mean that during this wedging process, the pommel would be expanded by the heat. As everything cooled, the pommel would shrink to grip the tang even tighter. If I were making a knife or sword, I'd cut some grooves in the end of the tang to give a tighter grip to the pommel after the shrinking process. The cooling of the tang would pull the pommel closer to the crossguard and put a little more compression on the handle. As long as the handle material had enough give, the tang could return to size and wouldn't be under permanent tension.
I say all of this as a guy who has never made a knife or sword in his life but has three engineering degrees including two in metallurgy. Granted, most of my education and experience is in corrosion and not fabrication, but I still bring a metallurgical background to the thought process.
PS. If you commission someone to make something using this technique, I really should get a huge discount on a second copy for giving you the idea.
Maybe I could even get a percentage if the technique catches on. Maybe we should patent this.
There is only one rightful method for pommel attachement: Enemy's face.
I recently got the game and when Henry's dad hammered the pommel from the side (not the top), I thought it was going to dent the pommel.
I was watching this video while chopping mortices as in the woodworking wedge example shown. SYnChRoNiCiTy!
You could do it with a Morse taper or a covered rived like you described (A rivet that deforms in the material).
It was often done for handrails.
But I have never seen a sword made like this; maybe there some.
What is really wrong is heating the tip portion and hammering further down, where it is colder. And I personally think that it is a too wide portion of the blade that is glowing. You want to save coal and use a fire with a small very hot area. Looks like the smith didn’t use enough water to extinguish the coal on the outer parts of the fire.
But the burning out the tang would not be done with a blade. Could be, but you heat the blade longer and without deformation, that will cause bigger grains in the structure.
I know of another way to attach those pieces together. A hole is drilled or punched into the tang and the pommel, then when those holes line up a pin is inserted perpendicular to the tang , through the tang and the pommel, finally the pin is peened. Don't know if this has been done historically but I've seen it done on modern blades.
Guildy cone pin to expand inside the thang that expand inside pommel...?
no, perpendicular to the tang, like a full tang knife handle is assembled. But then through the guard and the tang
Thought it was gonna be riveted.
I have never heard of it historically, but I was remounting some hilt furniture a year ago. I had bought a Windlass Longsword blade at the clearance sale some years ago. It unfortunately is too whippy a blade for use, but was a decent looking blade. The components were off an old Windlass "Early Claymore" aka Braveheart Sword. I measured the tang wrong & realized the pommel hole was too narrow. I filed the sides to the Tang to try to make it fit, but as I was checking it the pommel got stuck! So I decided to just take a hammer & wedge it on the tang. As the blade isn't really stiff enough for test cutting I can't put it through stresses & see if the pommel ever loosens however. Also I didn't have all the tools I needed to make a proper grip. My blowtorch had vanished so couldn't burn it out. Since it's basically a wall hanger I went with a grip of epoxy infused paper mache. Probably would fall apart with use, but for decoration it works fine & allowed me to shape grip very easily lol
And he hammered the sword without holding it in a vise.
The one thing I noticed is that when they put the pommel on it's smooth, but later when he starts cutting the stick and the lord comes to look at it there is little thing sticking out of the pommel.
What if they chose this to hammer home the fact that Henry's dad was one of the best and most unique blacksmiths? They hint at it through the while prologue. Maybe they wanted to put in a word method for him to make swords, therefore making him a great smithy?
Good video, I agree with the limitations on the cutscene. If you look from 6:56 to 7:01 you can actually see the tang coming out the other end of the pummel...Looks like the peening was done 'off camera'.
I have always heard the process refered to as pressing, or press fitting. I agree that this method would be very difficult to guarantee solid construction. Also, there should be some press (a few thousandths of an inch) on the hilt furnature construction anyway before the tang is piened. I have heard this wedging process was done, but like yourself Thomas I have not found any historical documentation on it either. As a history teacher I work a lot of stuff like this in to bolster history lessons, the kids really seem to enjoy the extra information. I would also like to know if this process was historically used. I look forward to more videos about this!
Sean Pearce
Seems similar to a press fit, a technique used today in machining applications. In this case the hole in the pommel would actually be slightly smaller than the tang and by forcing them together it causes a very tight interference fit. Not sure how durable it would be but modern disassembly often requires a hydraulic press.
The technical term for this kind of mechanical adhesion is interference fitting. It is actually pretty common in modern manufacturing and is strong enough to use in connecting motor vehicle components strongly enough that they are very difficult to unbind when it becomes necessary.
A common method to improve the binding properties of an interference fit is to have a high temperature differential between the components, so for instance if the pommel is heated up (so the slot for the tang expands) and is driven onto the tang and allowed to cool the bind onto the tang will be much more effective. I have no idea if this would work well for binding a pommel to a tang because there are MANY variables that come into play (material types, surface area of the friction fit & the shape of that area are most important) and the best way to tell would be through experimentation.
I have 3 guesses.
1. Animation oversight. It would be too difficult to animate that for just one scene to the detail of every other animation in that same scene.
2. Mistake in the model. After the sword is complete, the pommel is peened. Perhaps it was meant to be peened after all?
3. Status sword. The sword was not made for battle and just be worn as a status symbol. A common practice among nobles just to show off a cool and expensive sword.
Honestly, the answer could be all three.
What bugged me was that when they heated the tang to bore through the handle, they also heated base of the blade and ruined the whole thing! XD
I thought this was game's inaccuracy. This was my first "what a hell" on that cutscene.
Knowing nothing, it looked wrong... I can imagine how you felt.
It was pointed out below as well but you can quite clearly see in this video, at 6:16, we see the sword and it's hilt, look at the Pommel and you'll notice the bottom of the pommel is completely flat, which supports what we've seen so far that the thing was just hammered onto the bottom. But at 6:30, when the sword is completed, the pommel has a little something on it's bottom, it actually looks like it's been peened! So the sword was peened, it was just too difficult to show that part of it's creation so it was left out in the cut scene due to limitations put the sword was in fact peened.
I haven't played the game or watched it be played, so correct me if there's something missing here but if you look at the pommel at 6:16 - 6:25 _(just after fitting)_ it has been hammered down and the tang does not show through _(presumably the pommel is solid on top)._ However, if you look at the pommel after this part _(__6:28__ for instance)_ there is a small nub on the top of the pommel, as if it had been fitted via peening the tang. This makes me think there was more to this cutscene that didn't quite make it through production, maybe the piece of the scene where it's just kinda wedged on there was "added in post" so to speak.
Finally, when you were talking at the start I was so sure you were going to talk about glued pommels. Which should have definitely been on your list of modern methods, but they also show up historically. I think Matt Easton talked about an indian example he had at one point.
TL;DR:
1. I think this method is due to a cutscene limitation.
2. Yes, there's a fourth method, it's gluing.
I think they aimed to be as accurate as they could, but it's a pretty tough job to be looking out for every single little detail. They might even change the odd things now that people point them out.
As a Game Developer i am 99% sure they did it that way for visual simplicity sake and budget constraints, he puts the pommel on top, bangs it with the hammer and boom, you don't even see the handle being wrapped with leather or whatever goes there it just goes to the next scene so doing it that way saves a lot of money on cutscene animations and focus on the narrative. I found that the scene serves it's purpose and don't overstay their welcome, although i surely realized it was a simplified "accurate enough" making of a sword.
Cheers for the video!
I'm not a sword genius at all but I was actually wondering how that method that his dad used would keep the sword together, considering all the use I thought it would definitely fall apart easily in real life
i aslo found it wierd. but was more worried about the blade. and the tip of the blade.. being hammered into the ground like that.
It's probably due to some limitation of the cutscene engine - the sword is clearly peened a few cuts later when they're showing it off to Radzig.
Press fitting parts together like that is certainly possible to do and can be very strong and durable (typically called an "interference fit"). A few things to note though.
First, you would not want a "wedged" (tapered) shape, but rather a straight pin to get a durable bond, tapered press fits are not reliable for a variety of reasons.
Second, press fits of any kind require a high level of precision in the dimensions, usually to within a one thousandth of an inch on the diameter, which is difficult to achieve even with modern day equipment (but certainly possible, as many things today are press fitted, such as many gear / shaft assemblies), otherwise, the steel will crack or you must use a softer metal (e.g. brass). Today, both parts involved will typically be precisely machined before a press fitting.
And finally, there is no mechanical advantage (in the sense of a lever) with a press fit, so basically, the force required to press the piece in is the force required to pull it apart. So, if you can put the pommel on with a few bangs of a hammer, it will fall apart just as easily, and if you use your sword much, that won't take long, and this is why most press-fits today (if cold) are done with a hydraulic press and with tremendous force. And that's another issue, how are you going to hold the sword in a fixture such that you can press in the pommel without bending or otherwise damaging the sword, tang, guard or handle. One way around this problem is to heat up the outside part (i.e., the pommel) so that it expands sufficiently that it can be easily put onto the pin (i.e., the tang) and left to contract as it cools, but that still leaves you with the precision problem, as you don't want to do this just to end up having the pommel or tang crack during cooling.
I believe that with modern machining techniques, you could conceivably use such an interference fit to put a pommel on a sword in a way that would be stronger and more reliable than a peen, but it would certainly take more effort and cost. And in historical times, I think it would have been extremely difficult to get it right, and it probably would not have been worth the effort considering how much easier it would have been to peen it (even cold). And considering how peening rivets was the de facto standard way to assemble everything in those days, I doubt they would have even considered an alternative way, especially one as difficult as that.
Thank god im not the only one that thought this wasnt right.
later in the cutscene like when Radzig has the sword, you can see the little bit where the peen hasn't bee filed down yet, so I'd say cutscene limitaions
It could be an internal pien but that has to be done hot. Essentially it's the same thing but the goal is to flare the piece into an internal slot. It's hard to do well especially with medieval tech but I've pulled it off once. It's good if you have troubles with piening since the pommel is the piening block and you don't have to grind off the excess lump on the back, wouldn't say it's very useful though
I could see advantages to this in reinforcing the wood to keep it from splitting, however the wood would need to be super dry because otherwise your sword will start rattling wen humidity drops, this happens to hammers and axes all the time. i could see this being done on a cheaper sword tho, but not a noblemans sword.
Hi Thomas, Darksword Armory attaches the pommels of their herioic fantasy swords such as Anduril with a variation of this fourth method..... "Given the pommel geometry, the Anduril sword was not topped with a peened pommel but rather hot peened. That being said, the pommel and tang were heated and pressure set. This is a favourite among fantasy sword collectors. The Anduril battle ready sword is a powerful two handed medieval sword capable of delivering considerable damage." See sbg-sword-store.sword-buyers-guide.com/product409.html . It's a wonderful video that you've made here, as are all your videos! Thanks so very much for being such a fabulous participating member of the Sword Community! Best wishes, Wolf
Perhaps this method could have been used for ceremonial swords and display pieces, because the shock of being in a battle could cause it to come loose
If you watch later in the cutscene it is peened. I think it was just a limitation of the software or whatever
I'm pretty sure this was either a game limitation or early oversight. This cut scene was done when they first came out with the proof of concept alpha, so probably a good chance they were still doing research and never went back to update assets. Take a look at the hilt after he tests the sword. The model has the nut at the bottom of the pommel for the tang. I think this was meant as a peened construction, but the tang model was never updated to match.
Îf you look at the sword a bit later in that sequence, you can see the tang or peen sticking out of the pommel. So that animation was most likely done simplified or the person in charge didn't know better
Short answer. It is a game.
If you look in the actual cutscene vs the in game cut scene the sword has a nub at the bottom of the pommel I think its limitations of the in game cutscene and they maybe cut the actual peening process either because of time or resources.
On indo-persian swords they glue the handle to the blade with resin, people all over had different ways to make the same tool. This is just the famous "Henry's Dad method"
I have no knowledge of sword making, but Metatron visited Warhorse Studios and met the historian they hired. He said she is specialized in medieval interior design. So it could possibly be unfamiliarity of the topic.
I feel like the friction fit would be a quick and easy way to do wallhangers, but no way would I trust a blade on it, I might try this in the forge though, if I do ill report back on how well it holds up.
Im mostly worried about how he burns out the grip but apparently doesnt treat the blade afterward.
maybe it was used idk I could see it being used for a show sword for a buyer to see what it could look liked finished and let the buyer later pick the fittings at a Cutlers?
I seem to remember and for the life of me can't be sure of where I know this from. But the peen method had another method that used a round cone that as Said in the video was hammered into the pommel and tang This as it deformed would also look like a normal peening of the tang One has to look closely on some one can see the 2 lines or strata that give this method away you have the line of ID of the pommel and the OD if the cone. The the ID of the cone against the tang. The cone is made of a softer metal and as its driven into the space malforms and grips both outward and inward. I would think this would also though not as sure as just a tang pommel mate Would allow for handles and furniture to be replaced after they had been worn We know wood eventually will split especially if used alot and is the weakest link in the swords body. Sword repair was a very lucrative living back in those days. Smith's followed armies as the marched Just to repair weapons after battle. One would think the cross guard handle pommel area was probably one of the main problems. A crossguard that is hammered into the tang In doing its job in battle would probably come loose after taking strikes in the opposite direction. The method or methods were probably a close kept secret as much as the making of swords. So complete knowledge of this may not have been as common as we may believe. Having a handle if a sword that didn't rattle after a battle may have been a very sought after thing among swordsman. As again the very use of a sword promotes the parts to loosen
Most likely it was just shortened of the part of extensive hammering, so that it fit the scene lenght. Even with this cut It is still probably best sword making scene in videogame up to date. Even the Lord of the Rings and other "fantasy/historical" holywood movies ive seen up to date never actualy shown any solid historical sword making metod in them. Not to mention that as of late, I cant recolect any new movie, that have at least partialy accurate historical costumes in it.
Latest thing (except Kingdom come) I did see, that was at well made and somewhat accurate in the medieval department was the japan anime "maria the virgin witch".
Hey, don't know much about swords but I am studying mechanical engineering. Wheter this works or not depends on the angle of that endpart you are putting the pommel on and the coefficient of static friction. An angle of 5 degrees is enough so that it won't come of by itself. The lower the angle the tighter the grip. We design connections between shafts and gears that way sometimes.
Tho it's not stated just for the sake of 'potential' even tho I didn't notice it elsewhere in the clip at 8:19 when the sword is behind held pommel up you can see a slip bump suggesting perhaps it was an overlooked peening scene? Also if I recall they also stated the sword was unfinished but they did only mention polishing.
As a big fan of Messers, my favourite method of attaching a pommel is not having a pommel
you could put a pin through it to keep it held in place I guess
Well it looks like kinda fast way to get it done and Im kinda sure it would fit very tight together although it may eventually vibrate or rot away and fall off much faster than other methods (I doubt it would stay together hundreds of years like other methods) but it would hold long enought to outlive its owner i guess
Intresting I wonder if a company like Albion would know the historical information about this. I wonder if they would be interested in answering.
8:17 it looks like it's peened there with a tiny nub of the tang sticking out that as not been filed off yet.
You know, I did not notice that. But now that you mention it, it is very odd looking.
My guess is it's cold pinned but they had to simplify the animation a bit for budget and time reasons.
some very early swords were glued into their grips you don't really see that in the game but it could be a possibility.
It's odd cause if you look at them handing the sword around it looks peened at the bottom pause and look at it closly.
just spit balling, but it is it possible that the pommel is being wedged over the wood handle rather than the tang?
I think it would be more of a status thing, as the lord of a castle and the surrounding areas i don't think that he would maintain his own weapons. Rather he would just hand it to his personal blacksmith who could replace the handle every single hour if his lord asked him too
First off, at this period a sword should be assembled by a cutler rather than the smith. As far as this being a viable method of attachment I can only see it working if the pommel was heated first and allowed to shrink onto the tang, this would work even better if it were brass as the greater coefficient of expansion would give even more shrinking on cooling as well as allowing for removal by heating and the higher ductility of brass would help it deformed around the iron tang.
I mean, i believe the sword for radzig was more of a status piece, which may explain the construction if it was more of a show-offish piece, especially considering the ornate design and etchings in the crossguard
I am sure, somebody pointed this out already, but still. Love the game, and being a sword smithing enthusiast by myself, I have got pissed off by this moment as well... But then I thought about it a little more and found some points... 1. The hilt is burned through, which means that it wasn't actually put on till the very end of the tang, there was some space between the blade and crossguard, and between the guard and hilt, therefore the tip of the hilt wasn't sticking out as long as it should... 2. The smith is striking at an angle with the hammer, obviously to let the tang come through the pommel... 3. When you look at the sword later, when it is ready and wrapped - you may see the pin-head in the pommel, which leads me to the conclusion, that the sword is definitely pinned. Most likely, that's just a minor mistake of the animators, just like the gloves in Henry's hands when he is helping with the hilt... Otherwise, the game, the cut-scene is awesome...
Your mushrooming idea is about the same as I was thinking. Have the inside of the pommel get slightly larger inside then when its pounded on the tang should mushroom like a hot rivet
Maybe the pommel is glued on? Tulwars are glued as far as I know, so maybe that's the idea?
i have a wedged german solingen german youth knife from the 40s. its a 4 and half inch handle and 4 inch blade. Its lasted at least 80 or 90 years =D still sharp. Can you make a video explain how the wedge is done?
I can send pics if you send email or link
I found that cutscene odd too. I though "what is this, a Lego sword?"
I guess two part epoxy! VERY historically accurate!
I've studied an awful lot of different types of sword construction, and haven't ever seen a pommel attached in this manner.
So far I'm very much enjoying the game and its story, but for a game that markets itself on historical accuracy, I do worry about the strange details they decided to emphasize that don't seem to have any basis in historical reality (your example being one). Most of the people who play the game will see that cut scene and simply assume that must be the way swords are made because that's how it's shown in the game, and poof, a new myth is born. He may have also ruined the heat treat on his sword when heating it to fit the grip... :(
Most games and movies takes huge liberties in comparison to reality. You just dont notice because your not experienced on the field or interested in it. The reality is also that 99% of people dont really care.
Yes, I'm aware. The difference in this case is the game is marketing itself as 'historically accurate.' It draws more attention to the material culture and there is an expectation by the audience that those things really are 'historically accurate.' Most forms of media don't do that. Those 99% of people who don't care will take those words at face value and believe what they see. Using those words also opens you up to more criticism if you don't follow through.
Yes he would definitely have ruined the heat treat on his sword getting it that hot. And there's no way he wasn't wearing gloves with the tang being yellow. Once again, most people won't notice, but with them touting the game's historical accuracy and watching them meet with real blacksmiths, they should have done it differently.
Shall we speak about armour? Plate armour in particular, cuirasses are... So off! That was a great delusion for me: with all the fuss around "historical accuracy" and the focus they seemed to have on combat and armour, i was excited to finally see a game where knights looked proper, but no! They had to go for the old "cuirass that covers all the torso"... They did good with the stratified equipment concept, also it seems they had consulence and that's cool and all, then why didn't they get proportions right?
I totally blame Ian for ruining my enjoyment of the game!
This scene also seemed odd to me, but it was the hammering of point of the sword against stone ground what seemed weird to me
They should rework on this scene. They have the time and money to fix the flawes in the game. Suppose to be historically accurate game.
what if it is a 2 piece pommel which has a mushroom-shaped hole in it so when you hammer the pommel on it the hilt will spread out by force and get stuck.
at 6.29 u can actually C a peen coming trought the pummel. and its not there when he hammers it on! seems like they just didnt show that part of the making of the blade. (eventho the residue matherial was waay to short to get trought it)
I don't know alot about swords, but as a mechanical engineer I know, that wedge connections can be really strong. There are some examples in everday objects, where you can observe this fitting. A lot of hammers have the end of their hilts in a conical shape which is then just pushed into the hammerhead. Another example might be a wooden broom. Sometimes there is a metal thread attached to the broom and sometimes it's just pushed together with a conical shape. However the weakest point for these kinds of connections are always vibrations. Vibrations can drastically reduce friction between two components and thus lead to loss of the self locking keeping everything together. So basically everytime you hit something with the sword, the vibrations might loosen the pommel a bit, which is not ideal.
Right, this is why a lot of sword constructions that rely on wedge fit solely in keeping hilt components in place end up loose rather quickly, even if the pommel is peened the rest of the components may not be compressed properly. The combination of the two is what results in a long lasting fit because you have the wedge keeping the fit, and the compression keeping the vibrations from moving them too much.
I think it might be continuity error on War Horse studios part. aside from the assembly all other instances of the sword in the cut scene looks like it has been peened
What really bothered me was that a pro swordsmith took a fresh, spesically ordered high quality pommel and beat on it directly with a work hammer, just like that.
I thought the method was strange too.
If you look at the scene around where Henry’s father cuts the dowel. You can actually see the tang or a possible peen area. Take a look let me know if I’m wrong
If you carved a sort of a Y shape into the end of the recess into the pommel, it would be possible. Extremely difficult, I doubt it would’ve been done that way. It would provide a good mechanical hold, but again, super difficult. Also if you get it wrong you’re screwed. IMHO you’re far better off hot or cold peening the tang