This fail recovery video is more useful than 10 'how to' videos, even yours which was excellent - it's a necessary counterpart. Your previous video looked so perfect that it looked easy to get right (albeit hard work).
It takes real courage to show your mistakes. Thank you for showing your lessons learned. It will be very helpful in a very similar project I'm working.
I really appreciate your hard work - Its nice to know I'm not the only crazy person trying to do this stuff. I spent 2 months on one fender liner mold - I still have to make another for the other side. But now I know from your mistakes, and mine - how to do a better job on the other mold.
Probably the 6 or 7th time watching this video lol . Really hope I can make my molds pretty good but at least I better know how to tackle problems and not just get frustrated and quit . Thank you as always for the videos . I look forward to seeing the progress on your project.
Watching this after attempting to make a pair of molds simultaneously. For some reason I tried to add another layer of fiberglass after the resin began to harden. I’m extremely grateful for these quality, detailed videos, you are THE MAN!
I bought a set of widebody fiberglass fenders, and had to cut them up a bit to fix the fit to the OEM body parts. I can agree how much dust sanding creates. It gets EVERYWHERE. I appreciate your honesty and showing the struggles. I used Evercoat products on my fiberglass also (although mostly fillers).
I notice a lot of people brushing on gelcoat instead of spraying it. You will avoid a lot of lifting from brushing it in. That is the whole purpose of tooling gelcoat, to make molds. I just don’t think gelcoat is strong enough even for a one or two part time mold. Make a resin slurry in tight areas also to fill sharp areas/angels.
Two things that are a concern. 1, Gelcoat - I dont understand why or who lead you to believe the practice to let it tack and then start laying up? that can some many headaches and you will start throwing moulds parts and money away. let the gelcoat cure then go in with you first layer. CSM is fine to use but I'd go with a 225csm as a first layer tissue is also good to use to help prevent print through. also that first layer is important and is best to let cure before pressing on. 2, ROLLERS - come on people I see so many people have at it with a bush and dabbing, Dabbing doesnt remove air. and just because its drown in resin all the air is removed. No... rollers are the only way to remove air. use them please. To be fair you are a first timer so alot of this is new. Youve done really well. Your 90% the way there. Its the little details that are missed that can set you back or potentially course you to throw molds parts and money away.
Working on more molds right now...thanks so much for the timely advice. I've got some veil this time and will let the gel coat set completely. Is there any issue with letting it dry for a day?
@@ThrottleStopGarage You can let it sit for a day. but any longer then that you will in counter pre-release issues. If the gel coat is still in the early staggers of curing the resin can attack the gel coat and course triping.
well I feel 90% less stupid... I did this entire process myself and was pretty discouraged.. I got it done FINALLY.. but it was a nightmare.. What I learned? prep and attention to the initial setup is MOST important.. the GelCoat was my biggest headache.. I did not know it was a two step hardening process and also had the delam issues... Guess I know much more now than I did then.. Appreciate the help here.. was really informative and helpful... Oh one other thing... Thank you for "numbering" your videos... small detail but sure helps on this side of the computer.. :)
A batch Cabosil mixed in the epoxy to make a putty. And you apply it to all the seams radius it will help prevent any voids also. One layer of C veil then apply csm when making molds
@@ThrottleStopGarage I used galvanized sheet metal and Bondo to make flange extensions on the parts I made molds from. The Bondo stuck well enough but popped off easily when removing the mold. I made molds to make copies of the parts for a 1978 Mustang King Cobra. Some of the original parts were soft urethane and the fiberglass copies I'd bought were badly distorted because whomever made the molds didn't have the parts mounted on a Mustang. So the parts had to be cut up and pieced back together and fit to the fenders. When done they weighed a lot and were really thick. So I made molds to make my own copies. Then because the King Cobra airdam hangs so low I made a 3 piece set just to shorten its height by 2 inches then made molds from those. I should get the molds out and do a video on them.
Thanks Alan - this part of the project has been a trial. I'll only win because I'm that stubborn. Failure is not an option...it is an outcome, but not an endpoint.
Cool video. But do yourself a vavpur nex time... wipe cobra floor polish in the inside of the mould first before you lay the fireglass down.... it will stop it from sticking
I've just made some of the same mistakes, wish I'd watched before, would it be worth putting the mould surface under vacuum to help locate the gelcoat blisters ? Thanks for the great videos.
It was really just me not having enough experience and making a complicated part first. Now I would make this fender mold in two parts and it would be less work than the "repair" that I had to do!
Honestly, I learned a lot from his videos. I gained a lot of confidence that I could do the job. The truth came when I tried -- slopped things on, used clay (that was pure fail - it dried out and fell off) and became discouraged. Then I worked it out - experience can't be replaced. He's able to pull stuff off because he's done it a thousand times.
I know this is an older video, but for your molds what kind of polyester resin were you using? Laminating resin, ISO tooling resin, Or just General purpose resin? By the way, thank you for going into detail the way you do in all your videos.
Thanks - the resin used on these was just a GP polyester. I know better now - I also would NEVER have made that mold in one piece knowing what I now know. It would have been faster to just junk the molds and start again.
@@ThrottleStopGarage What type of resin would you use knowing better now? Asking because i'm thinking of making parts for my build and just trying to absorb as much info as possible.
@@jamest3618 A tooling polyester resin is great for molds. compositeenvisions.com/product/tooling-polyester-resin-isophthalic-1-gallon-with-hardener-mekp-ddm-9/
17:03 I think your premise about vacuum pushing the part/mold apart is false. It is true that air pressure pushes down on the infusion stack, part itself and inner part of the mold. But that same air pressure exerts the same force on the outside of the mold. The only force hat mold has to counter is the natural tendency of infusion stack and laminate to resist being contorted into curves. This was just a comment on your reasoning. Other than that it is always good idea to add stiffness to a mold.
Question for everyone, I bought gelcoat from composite envision and they mention that the gelcoat I bought has a three month shelf life. Does this apply even if I haven't opened the containers at all ? I don't want to ask the company because some companies, even if the product is good, they will say it's bad so you end up buying it again 😔. I'm not saying this company is like that, I'm just taking measures just in case. How can you tell if the gelcoat is bad ?
@@ThrottleStopGarage im familiar with that, but on the 13:35 mark on your video, you attached a flexible material to the mould to fabricate the flange around the headlight portion.
@@ThrottleStopGarage Okay , now u mention that can put a bit gel coat on the repaired spot... but will gel coat can dry completely ... all i know is .. you must put gelcoat and top layer resin to dry ? again thanks for your reply ,,, very passionate video DYI ! amazing best on UA-cam.
@@ThrottleStopGarage Ok , i have Gelcoat that came with additive wax , these are the gelcoat i use to make the mould. will try it. thank you . Amazing Videos All around !! Very passionate , humble and Cute dog also . :) thanks
@@ThrottleStopGarage I noticed you used the cloth instead of light weight chop strand right after your gelcoat. I wanted to know the reason for it, and if the cloth will conform better than a 100gsm chopstrand to a fender that has a wide flare. A project im currently working on. I was also looking at the old guy , and he always say not to use chopstrand, but I think that the cloth can be used in some imstances, just my opinion.
@@rubenrobles7275 What I would use now is fibreglass veil - much more reliable. The cloth I was using is very light weight material and provided a good strong back up to the gel coat. The cloth doesn't conform as well as the chop can do almost any shape - it's just light and an easy first layer. I only use veil now - much better idea.
@@ThrottleStopGarage Thats what i wanted to know, since I was told I could start with 2 layers of 100gsm chopstrand. Also when using release agent, not wax or pva, and gelcoat is applied, is it normal for the gel not wanting to stick at first, and then once its on , after about hr or so once ot starts to tack, it sort of like wrinkles, but doesnt come off?
@@rubenrobles7275 In my later videos, I cover spraying gel coat with conventional spray guns (just a big needle) - that works the best and you build layers quickly. Brushing is next best in my experience and you're not painting...so get it on and don't play with it. Get a "mil gauge" to measure your film thickness. Alligatoring (when it wrinkles) can happen if gel coat is applied too thin on a first coat and the second coat bites too deep and pulls it off the surface. Wax and PVA (again - later video - making the intake plenum...Ep 71 I think) I cover how to spray PVA successfully is a very reliable mold making option. I've used chemical releases for making parts, but I do still wax and PVA for mold making.
I'd try a baking soda blaster to find all the bubbles under the gel coat. Toss some Arm & Hammer into one of these and got at it. www.harborfreight.com/21-oz-hopper-gravity-feed-spot-blaster-gun-95793.html The baking soda is a very mild abrasive so it won't be very roughening to the plastic, but it should be abrasive enough and add enough impact to punch through the thin gelcoat layer where there are bubbles behind it. The finish it leaves behind will be clean and with the right 'tooth' to spray on a layer of gelcoat to wet sand, polish, and buff. I made some fiberglass molds in the 90's and went through these same problems figuring things out on my own with nothing but The Fiberglass Repair and Construction Handbook 2nd Edition by Wiley for a guide. Copies of the book are readily available used online. If you're wanting to get into FRP mold and part making it's a good place to start.
This fail recovery video is more useful than 10 'how to' videos, even yours which was excellent - it's a necessary counterpart. Your previous video looked so perfect that it looked easy to get right (albeit hard work).
Thanks Alex.
Between watching all of Bill's videos and then your's that's how I learned to build Carbon Fiber parts myself. Bill is a true Gem.
I'm a car enthusiast's who lives in Oklahoma. Youxve inspired me to make molds for parts off my car (WRX) to make them out of carbon fiber. Thank you
It takes real courage to show your mistakes. Thank you for showing your lessons learned. It will be very helpful in a very similar project I'm working.
Thanks Bill.
I really appreciate your hard work - Its nice to know I'm not the only crazy person trying to do this stuff. I spent 2 months on one fender liner mold - I still have to make another for the other side. But now I know from your mistakes, and mine - how to do a better job on the other mold.
Good to know neither of us are alone! I wish I had these to watch before I made my molds.
@@ThrottleStopGarage , you can see some of my fun on my facebook page Shurr Things.
Sometimes it's not how you succeed, but how you recover that measures your success. Great job on this. I... can't... stop... watching! Cheers! Mike
Thanks Mike...this was a struggle to be sure.
Probably the 6 or 7th time watching this video lol . Really hope I can make my molds pretty good but at least I better know how to tackle problems and not just get frustrated and quit . Thank you as always for the videos . I look forward to seeing the progress on your project.
You can do it. Take your time and breathe when it doesn't work. I wish I had tossed those molds out and made them differently.
Watching this after attempting to make a pair of molds simultaneously. For some reason I tried to add another layer of fiberglass after the resin began to harden. I’m extremely grateful for these quality, detailed videos, you are THE MAN!
Thanks - glad to hear that it worked out for you.
Love the humility and hard lessons.
Glad I found your channel.. Got a lot of catching up to do now.
Keep it up!
Thanks!
keep doing what you are doing! this is immensely helpful and your delivery is friendly
Thanks! I'm glad you found this useful.
Finally, someone who knows to speak up and clearly thanks.
New viewer and watching and learning. Thank you for the lectures 🙏🏾
Thanks!
I bought a set of widebody fiberglass fenders, and had to cut them up a bit to fix the fit to the OEM body parts. I can agree how much dust sanding creates. It gets EVERYWHERE. I appreciate your honesty and showing the struggles. I used Evercoat products on my fiberglass also (although mostly fillers).
I'll show it in the spring...I take a leaf blower into the garage and blow the dust out!
I notice a lot of people brushing on gelcoat instead of spraying it. You will avoid a lot of lifting from brushing it in. That is the whole purpose of tooling gelcoat, to make molds. I just don’t think gelcoat is strong enough even for a one or two part time mold. Make a resin slurry in tight areas also to fill sharp areas/angels.
great work, thanks for sharing lessons learned!
Glad it was helpful!
Two things that are a concern. 1, Gelcoat - I dont understand why or who lead you to believe the practice to let it tack and then start laying up? that can some many headaches and you will start throwing moulds parts and money away. let the gelcoat cure then go in with you first layer. CSM is fine to use but I'd go with a 225csm as a first layer tissue is also good to use to help prevent print through. also that first layer is important and is best to let cure before pressing on. 2, ROLLERS - come on people I see so many people have at it with a bush and dabbing, Dabbing doesnt remove air. and just because its drown in resin all the air is removed. No... rollers are the only way to remove air. use them please. To be fair you are a first timer so alot of this is new. Youve done really well. Your 90% the way there. Its the little details that are missed that can set you back or potentially course you to throw molds parts and money away.
Working on more molds right now...thanks so much for the timely advice. I've got some veil this time and will let the gel coat set completely. Is there any issue with letting it dry for a day?
@@ThrottleStopGarage You can let it sit for a day. but any longer then that you will in counter pre-release issues. If the gel coat is still in the early staggers of curing the resin can attack the gel coat and course triping.
You have patience for sure. Mistakes are all part of the learning process. That's just the way it is.
well I feel 90% less stupid... I did this entire process myself and was pretty discouraged.. I got it done FINALLY.. but it was a nightmare.. What I learned? prep and attention to the initial setup is MOST important.. the GelCoat was my biggest headache.. I did not know it was a two step hardening process and also had the delam issues... Guess I know much more now than I did then.. Appreciate the help here.. was really informative and helpful... Oh one other thing... Thank you for "numbering" your videos... small detail but sure helps on this side of the computer.. :)
Glad you found this useful. The disappointment of having mold fail is pretty terrible.
Yes you need draw or draft in relation to the direction of the part being released to prevent mechanical locking!
A batch Cabosil mixed in the epoxy to make a putty. And you apply it to all the seams radius it will help prevent any voids also. One layer of C veil then apply csm when making molds
That's basically what I now do and I've had zero drama since. Good learning experience.
Another great video. I never thought about flashing for making flanges and it has a smooth surface.
And the resin doesn't seem to stick to it. I just applied two coats of mold release wax and it released just fine.
@@ThrottleStopGarage I used galvanized sheet metal and Bondo to make flange extensions on the parts I made molds from. The Bondo stuck well enough but popped off easily when removing the mold. I made molds to make copies of the parts for a 1978 Mustang King Cobra. Some of the original parts were soft urethane and the fiberglass copies I'd bought were badly distorted because whomever made the molds didn't have the parts mounted on a Mustang. So the parts had to be cut up and pieced back together and fit to the fenders. When done they weighed a lot and were really thick. So I made molds to make my own copies. Then because the King Cobra airdam hangs so low I made a 3 piece set just to shorten its height by 2 inches then made molds from those. I should get the molds out and do a video on them.
Where do you buy flashing from?
lem bordeaux . The metal flashing can be found at hardware stores, roofing supply houses or building supply outlets.
There are no mistakes, only solutions!!
Thanks Alan - this part of the project has been a trial. I'll only win because I'm that stubborn. Failure is not an option...it is an outcome, but not an endpoint.
Excellent
the Australian guy was wjp004 on youtube or something like that lol
My thoughts exactly.. He gets the exact results he wants though. There is no doubt he knows what he is doing!
Lmao, everyone that knows him, got that reference lol
That Australian is the man when it comes to fiberglassing learned a lot from that old bloke!!!
Cool video. But do yourself a vavpur nex time... wipe cobra floor polish in the inside of the mould first before you lay the fireglass down.... it will stop it from sticking
I’m itchy just watching!
I've just made some of the same mistakes, wish I'd watched before, would it be worth putting the mould surface under vacuum to help locate the gelcoat blisters ?
Thanks for the great videos.
It was really just me not having enough experience and making a complicated part first. Now I would make this fender mold in two parts and it would be less work than the "repair" that I had to do!
I laughed when you referenced wjp004 🤣
I alway watch his videos but I’m often like 😬
His stuff ain’t pretty but he gets the job done 🙃
Honestly, I learned a lot from his videos. I gained a lot of confidence that I could do the job. The truth came when I tried -- slopped things on, used clay (that was pure fail - it dried out and fell off) and became discouraged. Then I worked it out - experience can't be replaced. He's able to pull stuff off because he's done it a thousand times.
Use clay or mold dough for holes or spots hard to reach for repair
Good tip!
I know this is an older video, but for your molds what kind of polyester resin were you using? Laminating resin, ISO tooling resin, Or just General purpose resin? By the way, thank you for going into detail the way you do in all your videos.
Thanks - the resin used on these was just a GP polyester. I know better now - I also would NEVER have made that mold in one piece knowing what I now know. It would have been faster to just junk the molds and start again.
@@ThrottleStopGarage What type of resin would you use knowing better now? Asking because i'm thinking of making parts for my build and just trying to absorb as much info as possible.
@@jamest3618 A tooling polyester resin is great for molds. compositeenvisions.com/product/tooling-polyester-resin-isophthalic-1-gallon-with-hardener-mekp-ddm-9/
Sometimes its better to learn from someone who is not an "expert" .
True - though I have leaned on a few people that have given me excellent advice through this project. I wish I knew them when I made these molds.
17:03 I think your premise about vacuum pushing the part/mold apart is false. It is true that air pressure pushes down on the infusion stack, part itself and inner part of the mold. But that same air pressure exerts the same force on the outside of the mold. The only force hat mold has to counter is the natural tendency of infusion stack and laminate to resist being contorted into curves. This was just a comment on your reasoning. Other than that it is always good idea to add stiffness to a mold.
Understood. I really should have tossed out these molds and made something two part and better. Live and learn.
Question for everyone, I bought gelcoat from composite envision and they mention that the gelcoat I bought has a three month shelf life. Does this apply even if I haven't opened the containers at all ? I don't want to ask the company because some companies, even if the product is good, they will say it's bad so you end up buying it again 😔. I'm not saying this company is like that, I'm just taking measures just in case. How can you tell if the gelcoat is bad ?
It should be fine. You may need to stir it really well, then test it to be sure it will still cure.
Hey bud, so which material did you use to make that flange?
It's a corrugated plastic. Sold under different brand names.
@@ThrottleStopGarage im familiar with that, but on the 13:35 mark on your video, you attached a flexible material to the mould to fabricate the flange around the headlight portion.
@@rubenrobles7275 that's roof flashing material.
Where are you located man?!?! I’d pay you to make one of my molds!!!!! Please I need to learn this ASAP.
Sorry - I don't do outside work.
What if the scratch is fine and alot ... can be use bondo fiber then sanding ?? Thanks
Sure if not using the mold for many parts.
@@ThrottleStopGarage Okay , now u mention that can put a bit gel coat on the repaired spot... but will gel coat can dry completely ... all i know is .. you must put gelcoat and top layer resin to dry ? again thanks for your reply ,,, very passionate video DYI ! amazing best on UA-cam.
@@Newbenwindowcleaningcom Use either a waxed gel coat or use a wax additive like "Air Dry" to your gel coat. Thanks for the positive comments.
@@ThrottleStopGarage Ok , i have Gelcoat that came with additive wax , these are the gelcoat i use to make the mould. will try it. thank you . Amazing Videos All around !! Very passionate , humble and Cute dog also . :) thanks
What’s the difference between tooling gelcoat and regular gel coat?
More durable, shrinks less and its tougher.
Throttle Stop Garage for molds, should you use gel coat with or without wax? Not sure which one to get.
@@AndySomogyi Without if you're making a mold.
Throttle Stop Garage thanks, that’s exactly what I was thinking.
hey, i fix my molds with gelcoat!
Fix it with gel coat i think it's easier and faster, sand, sand, sand
had a question regarding your mould?
What's the question?
@@ThrottleStopGarage I noticed you used the cloth instead of light weight chop strand right after your gelcoat. I wanted to know the reason for it, and if the cloth will conform better than a 100gsm chopstrand to a fender that has a wide flare. A project im currently working on. I was also looking at the old guy , and he always say not to use chopstrand, but I think that the cloth can be used in some imstances, just my opinion.
@@rubenrobles7275 What I would use now is fibreglass veil - much more reliable. The cloth I was using is very light weight material and provided a good strong back up to the gel coat. The cloth doesn't conform as well as the chop can do almost any shape - it's just light and an easy first layer. I only use veil now - much better idea.
@@ThrottleStopGarage Thats what i wanted to know, since I was told I could start with 2 layers of 100gsm chopstrand. Also when using release agent, not wax or pva, and gelcoat is applied, is it normal for the gel not wanting to stick at first, and then once its on , after about hr or so once ot starts to tack, it sort of like wrinkles, but doesnt come off?
@@rubenrobles7275 In my later videos, I cover spraying gel coat with conventional spray guns (just a big needle) - that works the best and you build layers quickly. Brushing is next best in my experience and you're not painting...so get it on and don't play with it. Get a "mil gauge" to measure your film thickness. Alligatoring (when it wrinkles) can happen if gel coat is applied too thin on a first coat and the second coat bites too deep and pulls it off the surface. Wax and PVA (again - later video - making the intake plenum...Ep 71 I think) I cover how to spray PVA successfully is a very reliable mold making option. I've used chemical releases for making parts, but I do still wax and PVA for mold making.
I'd try a baking soda blaster to find all the bubbles under the gel coat. Toss some Arm & Hammer into one of these and got at it. www.harborfreight.com/21-oz-hopper-gravity-feed-spot-blaster-gun-95793.html The baking soda is a very mild abrasive so it won't be very roughening to the plastic, but it should be abrasive enough and add enough impact to punch through the thin gelcoat layer where there are bubbles behind it. The finish it leaves behind will be clean and with the right 'tooth' to spray on a layer of gelcoat to wet sand, polish, and buff.
I made some fiberglass molds in the 90's and went through these same problems figuring things out on my own with nothing but The Fiberglass Repair and Construction Handbook 2nd Edition by Wiley for a guide. Copies of the book are readily available used online. If you're wanting to get into FRP mold and part making it's a good place to start.
I've switched to tooling gel coat and a proper application protocol (not what I saw on UA-cam) and I've not had a single problem since.