Remington 1890: A Half-Hearted Attempt to Dethrone the Colt SAA
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- Опубліковано 7 вер 2024
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In 1886, the Remington company fell into financial insolvency. It was reorganized as the Remington Arm Co under the leadership of Marcellus Hartley, and in 1890 the company made an attempt to compete once again with Colt. Remington introduced the Model 1890, which was essentially their tried-and-true Model 1875 revolver reimagined a bit to look more like a Colt SAA. Available in .44-40 with either a 5 3/4” or 7 1/2” barrel, the gun was a complete flop. Only 2,020 were made and sales lasted just 4 years (1891-1894). The buying public was just no longer interested in a single action cowboy-style revolver. Double action gun were becoming the norm, and anyone who really wanted something nostalgic simply got a real Colt.
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Remington in financial trouble? Almost like things never change
Facing bankruptcy is Rimingtons long standing MO. Its bizarre when you think how popular Rimington rifles and shotguns have always been
It's like Colt; they've gone bankrupt and been bought out how many times now? A dozen?
Remmington's going bankrupt again - it must be a day of the week ending in -y.
nihil sub sole novum
So Remington/Winchester went to all the trouble of designing, manufacturing, and marketing this revolver just to troll Colt? Nice.
more like to keep their head above water as Colt was selling the absolute s*** out of their guns
@@thickoc4539 do
Never discount the effect of Ego in firearms industry.
I'm not sure design and manufacture cost all that much, these were just cobbled together, and from spares no less
Even Colt made the 1873 revolver model in .44WCF under de name frontier 6 shooter so as to be used alongside rifles made for the same .44-40/.44WCF. Original design for .45LC amo was pretty good but was imediately downgraded to .45 S.W. level at army request. The .44-40 was full power from the start, and was not downgraded but even upgraded fast to smokeless and some variants were loaded even hoter.
I swear, Remington has been a HUGE player in American arms, but has managed to go bankrupt several times... WTF?!
Can you name an Arms company from the 1800s that hasn't gone bankrupt that still exists today?
@@rubbafunk That is the exception rather than the rule. Almost all major manufacturers have gone into bankruptcy and reorganized across all industries.
Let me introduce you to a little company named Colt....lol
Colt
hell even colt's gone bankrupt what, four times? high risk industry gun smithing is.
It's amazing how much trouble Remington has had over the years while still being respected.
Only Remington that mattered was the 870... even that went to s***. The H&R Pardner Pump 870 clone from 15 years ago wound up being good at a better price. Which is sad. Damn thing was probably made from American recycled steel.
@@SuperEvilmonkey88 the model 11 and model 8 would like to talk
Am watching this sipping a cold beer, on a sunny and warm day in Rome, waiting for a 108 years old gun shop to open. Life is good.
What are you going to buy???
@@stefanmolnapor910 Just window shopping, it is my form of tourism. Got a new pair of ear defenders though.
@@scipio10000 smart! And fun! Enjoy
Will always remember this revolver for being (For some reason) in the Call of Juarez series instead of the SAA , even when it is anachronistic .
When you can't get Colt's license
Fortunately the OG game had a Colt SAA.
From my understanding, sometime in 2008, Colt and Ubisoft had some sort of falling out, and so none of Ubisoft's shooters had Colt weapons for the period between 2008-2013.
@@1Morey That's hilarious
@@delayedhoe9714 did a little digging. Allegedly, Colt wasn't happy about their guns being in Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six: Vegas or something, and the enemies being American.
@@1Morey Wait til they find out who the real FBI usually shoots.
I own a Herter's 357. magnum revolver which is itself a clone of the Colt SAA, made by J.P. Sauer and Sohn in 1967 from West Germany. I found this revolver at a pawn shop and every part is like a midnight black color with a deep bluing. May not be the real deal, but man she's a beauty! Shoots well and accurate too.
5:05 Functionally same as the Colt SAA, but slightly different in its internal arrangement, of course. Remington gets away with two screws in the frame (hammer and trigger) because in their single action guns the trigger and stop bolt are nested one atop the other and pivot in place on just the one screw.
In the Colt single action guns the trigger and bolt sit side-by-side and use two different pivot points, hence they each get their own screw-- add in the hammer, and you get a total of three screws in the frame of a Colt.
The Remington 1875 felt better in my hand than the Colt 1873, but I found few who felt the same.
@@michaelmurdock4607 EXACTLY! The Colt grip just feels too cramped and uncomfortable to me.
I believe Frank James preferred the Remington over the Colt.
First single action I bought was the 1875
You've probably got big hand's like me. I like the feel of a Remington. 44 over the Colt Plow handle too.
I’ve been toying with the idea of getting some Remingtons. Like we all need an excuse to buy more single actions!
1858 Remington cap and ball pistols were very much liked in the CW. Locally one was found in a pasture 100+ years after the Civil War and was likely a Union pistol lost in a skirmish. (NW Arkansas)
1858 were so good I still own and use one today 🤣 Of course, not an original, but still 95% faithful to Colts design
It's nice to see a older firearm review again. The matches/ food are cool but I really enjoy seeing videos like this.
I love single action revolvers. Always have. Seeing more obscure ones crop up on the channel will always be fun to watch!
I can just see Winchester discussing this move with his cronies,and saying," Here's our chance to give Sam kick up his ass! Let's do it!" And the cheer going around the room.
@@bimmypedersen8412 Well,he most likely thought about it,anyway!
I would have liked a closer look at how the ejector mechanism itself works and maybe the base pin retainer mechanism.
Interesting how instead of making a break action double action Colt SAA lookalike they just made a "we have a SAA at home" in a period when single action revolvers were fading away
@@justforever96 literally copy a SAA frame's general look, make it a bit beefier, slap a hinge on the front and a latch on the top (you know, like a Webley or a Schofield or any other top break action revolver. I have yet to see a top break revolver that opens like a shotgun, with a long side swinging latch), design its frame's internals to hold a double action mechanism and you got it. It's a bit of a more expensive thing to do, but you can leech off of the SAA fame and profit a lot from it, you can market it as "like a Colt SAA, but faster to fire and reload" and old Sammy can go suck a lemon cause you didn't infringe any patent, having a similar look doesn't mean there is a copyright violation, he got a copyright on the mechanism and not on the aesthetics
@@Momo_Kawashima if you want a double action 44-40 break-top, S&W already has the double action frontier. The whole point was to try and use the 1875 parts they already have and make something "new"
I had a pair of Uberti clones of one of these. Felt better in the hand than a SAA - bit more space between the grip and the back of the trigger guard, so a titch more "reach" for the trigger finger. Lovely things.
The other unspoken virtue of the 1875 Remington revolver...the ability to whomp somebody over the head with impunity.
Something Randolph Scott's character, in western action flicks, did with regularity. 😉
The Colt Walker was the OG skull crusher, It Was designed to be shot from horseback then double as a club.
@@akatripclaymore.9679 13 lb sounds embellished to me...cursory searches bring up 4.5 pounds for the Walker. Which is still pretty close to the M1 carbine and REALLY HEAVY for a handgun.
@@akatripclaymore.9679 To be fair, the M1 carbine also never developed a reputation for exploding. :)
@@ZGryphon True...we were talking club's though.
@@WhitzWolf92 That is what Walker Wanted, but I've only held a Walker once. It was a 100 year anniversary model, but a real Colt nonetheless have you ever held one? I worked at a Taxidermy/ Black Powder shop in Puyallup Washington. That was the only reason I was able to see & hold a real one. Even Copies are hard to find now.
Why am I not surprised to learn that Remington has had serious money problems for a long, long time?
Going out of Business is a milestone moment for any gun company in the US
Very interesting. I didn't realise Remington made these. I picked up some knowledge about their black powder guns but I never caught this or don't remember it. Thanks Ian.
God bless all here.
I own both the Colt SAA and the Remington 1890. Similar but the Remington gets shot more often.It just fits me better. Love them both though.
I'd love to time travel to those times and see how they made guns back then. It's hard to imagine that they could machine things without widespread electric grids, although electricity and generators did exist, whether they used them or not.
Water wheels, energizing a flywheel, with power taken on or off via a clutch and/or a differential setup.
@@BogeyTheBear It's one thing to know the theory, but to see it in practice, to see how the old masters did it, that would be awesome.
It's cool to see Ian making a stop at one of the auction houses again. There's always something weird and different drifting across the auction block. Hope he makes a habit of it.
I really like the distinctive Remington features.
.44-40 also has the advantage of being a lever action rifle cartridge.
So is .45 LC.
@@alexanderhenley7307 It is _now,_ but .45 Colt back in the old days didn't have a robust rim for the lever-action extractor to grip onto.
@@BogeyTheBear Fair enough, I hadn't thought about that.
I've always loved the look of the Remington 1875. The long grip and 'fin' under the barrel just makes it look cool :) I need to pick up a reproduction 1875 one of these days.
I honestly like it better than a bog standard SAA if I’m being honest. “I prefer something with a little heft to it.” - Bluebonnet Spearman in Open Range.
Agreed, I always loved that fin as a kid :)
@@rogerwennstrom6677 Same here. I had a cap gun that was clearly inspired by the Remington 1858 and 1875, complete with that fin.
Nothing on that 'WK' scratched into the frame?? THAT intrigues me!
Walter Kwhite
@@Aperson156 Thanks! I was expecting Ian to mention it; however crudely done, that's part of the gun's history and provenance.
@@petesheppard1709 The genuine tone of your reply makes me think you didn't get my joke and now I feel bad. It was a Breaking Bad reference.
4:40 'WK' to the right of the caliber and a 'W' near the cylinder
Ian actually has that Model 1875 in his lap in every video.
Always a great watch to start my Monday! Have a great day everyone!
I might add that some of the Early Colt and Remington Double actions (1870-1900 era) broke often, the SAA was a tank and RARELY failed to fire.
In the move Open Range, Robert Duvall carried a Remington 1875 and when he was talking to Kevin Costner he mentions that he preferred a heftier handgun than Costner's Colt SAA.
5:55 A new SA revolver in the 1890s. DAs exist, auto loading pistols are being developed. Timing.
Well they could try for a contract with the Russian military at least
Why is it that late 19th century American revolvers just look so good even when they’re not embellished?
Oh man, I have recently gained a liking for the Remington Model 1890 since it is that gun that "looks like a Colt 1873 but isn't" , and then you make a video about it?! Man, Gun Jesus is so cool. 😎
Thank you for talking about this gun.
interesting piece. would love to see something on the Cap and Ball era Remington Pistols. They seem so superior to that of the Colt's army and navy revolvers (even though they broke the ground of the weapon)
To quote a great warrior-poet: When you come at the King, best not miss.
thank you ian. i prefer the videos of the older guns, and i really like the stories that go with them.
the late 1800s were a wild time to be in the market for firearms, you had a not zero chance of buying a 'new' gun that was made of 50 year old parts or a gun that was made before the civil war and sat in a warehouse
Would have been a dig at Colt by Remington themselves as well since a great deal of the Colt SAA was "borrowed" from the Remington New Model Army. As memory serves, a gun smith from Remington moved over to Colt and helped develop the SAA.
There's just something special about those old western revolvers!
I used to have the Uberti version in .357, but man was that pistol overbuilt and heavy.
I bet it really made for smooth shooting, though.
@@kirkmooneyham That it did. :D I always wondered how it's weight compared to something drilled out for 45 cal.
I never knew of the Remington 1890 revolver. I knew of the 1875, from an episode of The Simpsons, but I didn't know that's what it was. Thanks, I always wondered what that angled support was, I always thought it was for the barrell, I didn't think ejection rod.
This pistol was made just down the road from where I live. RIP Remington Arms Ilion, NY. thanks to New York's friendly gun laws.
New York government is just one big early life section
Could be worse? You could be in Canada.....
@@WALTERBROADDUSeven worse; Australia
@@Fulcrumn9 folks in North Korea might disagree. But then, it doesn't pay to disagree in North Korea.😏🇰🇵
This feels like an aggressively forgettable gun for its day.
@C. W. Sayre There is a car review series called Regular Car Reviews; they once did a review on the Oldsmobile Alero, a car that is also aggressively forgettable. That's all I think of when I see this gun. In a cowboy movie this is the gun that would be used by some background character.
@@daltonbecker4494 yeah, it was used by one of Lawrence's (Clifton Collins Jr.) cousins in Westworld (2016) during a shootout with the Man in Black (Ed Harris), and by Buddy (Sid Haig) and Purvis (David Arquette) in the intro of Bone Tomahawk (2015).
As Heath Ledger once said “It’s not about the money. It’s a bout sending a message.”
Heartly owned 50%-Half hearted attempt… I see what you did there😂
I wonder what the cost difference was between the Remington to the Colt. If comparable , most would buy a Colt.
I prefer the Remington’s grip geometry over Colt’s, and I like the balance of the 1875.
Personally, I find the looks of the 1875 as more menacing than that of the Colt, due to the fin underneath the barrel (which also makes it somewhat resemble a previous, more famous handgun by Remington, their 1858 revolver).
Remington and pistols, no thanks for 100 years!
Colt broke that "gentleman's agreement" with the Colt-Burgess lever action rifle from 1883-1885 and exploited a loophole with the "slide-action"(pump action) Colt lightning rifle from 1884-1904. Both rifles were chambered in Winchester's 44-40 cartridge.
Remington made a number of 1911 .45 auto's too, during WW1. I don't think it was a coincidence the 1875 looked alot like the 1858 they basically look the same. The largest buyer of the 1858 .44 Cap and Ball were the Confederate Army. I love that pistol ( maybe it was the top strap) which the 1851 Colt lacked. But they also fit my hand better & I believe they were a little more accurate.
They also made a lot of rifle barrels around the world, Samuel Bush was on the board, and l think the Harrimans had a large piece of Remington.
I meant Bush was on the War Commision board, they decided who got government contracts.
@@jakeroberts7435 Harriman's... was that the guy who owned the munitions storage & made some crossover arm's in New York harbor- Then later there was an explosion? Some Dynamite that was stored turned to nitroglycerin ( or that is what is surmised)?
@@akatripclaymore.9679 Could have been, they owned Railroads, his name in Skull and Bones was "Thor". Samuel Bush ran Buckeye Steele for the Rockefellers, the 322 club owned Remington. The 870 was always my favorite shotgun for birds, so finding that out kinda sucked. It was a big stink about the Remington contracts, kinda like Cheney and Haliberton, but a fire mysteriously destroyed all the records.
@@jakeroberts7435 The 1100 was the best shooting shotgun I ever owned, But yeah the 870 was legendary' the 780 Woodsmaster in 30/06 was up there in my favorite rifle's category too! Yeah I lost most of my gun's in a fire too, the last few were lost in a boating accident.😮💨
Actually, at least all the Remington replicas I've handled had too short a hammer and the action always felt "mushy" to me, as opposed to the Colt which had a proper hammer spur and an action as crisp as celery.
Ok, so here's a question: out of the two, imagining them unseparated in time and market share, which is the better revolver, by some objective measure and in your opinion as well?
It's not possible to make an objective call on that: the Remington grips feel better in larger hands while the Colt's fit better for smaller ones. The Remington is definitely more durable, with it's one-piece frame. Some like the weightier 1875 as it helps tame recoil, some prefer the lighter 1890 or SAA.
Sort of reminds me of the late 1960's when AMC was buying parts from the other automakers as they tried to hold on.
Thank you , Ian .
🐺
Nobody ever mentions that the grips are set back about 3/8ths to 1/2 an inch further than the Colt pistols, making them feel very different to handle. To my mind, this feels much better for those with large frame hands
like mine.
The Remington cartridge revolvers might have been expected to have had some appeal to folks who had preferred (or at least been used to) using Remington’s solid frame full size cap and ball revolvers during the unpleasantness of the 1860s. Colt had seemingly seen the light on the strength and simplicity of solid frame revolvers with integral top-straps, and responded with their 1873 offering.
In other words, Colt copied the Remmies. But not because they "saw the light," but because the US Army demanded a top strap revolver.
Actually, when Colt came out with a cartridge revolver, it was an open top like their Army/Navy models, and the US gov demanded a full frame, "like the Remington." So the colt is a "copy" of the Remington, not the other way around.
Great video. 1875 looks cool and a bit unique.
Thank you Ian for the history of this interesting revolver. I would like to see the 1890 made again in replica form . It would add a forgotten bit of history to the replicas that are available. Thanks again.
I think that any replica would fail again, for the exact same reason the original did.Why would I buy a replica of a copy of peacemaker when I could buy a replica of a peacemaker?
Uberti does make a replica of the Remington Model 1890.
@@paleoph6168 thanks Paleo, I stand corrected.
The 1890 was not a copy of the SAA. The SAA is a copy of the Rem, 1858, because the US demanded a top strap revolver.
This was on the leading edge of smokeless powder. The gun was pretty much outdated when the first one came off the line.
If Smith and Wesson decided to chamber their Schofield models in .45 Colt would Colt be just a an answer to a trivia question?
Right. It had a solid one piece steel frame all the way to the tip of the grip. I’m surprised that Ian didn’t mention this.
Remington half-assing something? Ian I don't believe such nonsense...
it would be interesting to see a side by side with the single action army colt, do they shoot alike on the range?
Well with that rare Remington revolver out of the way, hopefully we'll see a video on that double action 1858 Remington at some point.
I love the lines of the 1875 Remington revolvers.
The extra bit of metal beneath the barrel on the 90, and the sturdier looking grip frame, make the 90 a bit more handsome than the SAA in my opinion.
I´d love to see you bring this to the range!
God. I wish you could have been my History teacher in school...
It would have been so much more interesting, and relevant, than the World History we got force-fed
High school teacher here. Most of the important things in life, you will learn yourself. Take advantage of school as much as you can but it is only the start.
@@mrmicro22 I finished school more than 3 decades ago.
But still, every day, I learn😉
Was just looking at buying a cimmeron 1890 police pistol and was delighted to see Ian.
I've never heard of a revolver that looks like the Colt Single Action Army that was produced just to make fun of Colt, well done Ian. Remington and Colt had this gentleman's agreement but it didn't say one party could commit patent infringment just for laughs and kicks.
Thanks Ian. Another bit of firearms history I was unaware of.
.
Man, Remington just cannot be financially viable can it... Every 75 years it seems to go bankrupt
Is that a Remington Model of 1875 in your lap or are you just happy to see me?
As an attempt to make some extra money from leftover stock I can honestly see, at least somewhat, what they werr going for with this.
I wonder how many of these 2000+ guns were made from old parts, vs how many (if any) were produced fresh. I can understand making a small run with the old tooling, and simply milling out the web under the barrel, to try to slavage some value. But in the end, I do wonder what the cost and final loss was for making this gun. I seriously doubt it made enough money to cover the tooling and labor, with so few sales.
Rem already had the tooling, and the 90s were made with new parts. All the left over 1875 parts were used up making the 1888 model. The web were probably made that way, and not made as a full web and then milled out. They were all sold for a profit, it just took 5 years to sell the 2020 guns.
Interesting story. Thanks Ian. 👍
I'd be curious as to whether the 1896 gun is currently accounted for and if so who owns it.
>Project ends in total commercial failure
>Colt and Winchester didn't even notice
>Still in crippling debt
Remington: Heh heh, gottem
My Uberti 1875 has a nasty habit of breaking it's ejector rod. I'm not sure if that is the the same for original guns.
Supposedly Blackhawk has more in common with the Remington than the colt
1890 seems very late in the game for a single action revolver, maybe they though double action swing out cylinder revolvers wouldn't catch on
I have the Remington and the Colt in my collection I felt the Remington was a well made pistol but according to the old timers the Colt just looked better and if you where going to spend a years wage’s on a tool that must matter besides apparently Colt had cheaper more plentiful ammunition
44-40 was all over the place in the late 1800s, and the colt was also chambered in it. If anything, 45 was rarer as it was exclusively a revolver cartridge
Interesting and informative, as always.
👍 Thank you for the information, Ian. Take care!
Always interesting and informative content. Thank you.
I have an Uberti 1875 in 45 Colt. It is very accurate at 25 yds.
I too, enjoy an Uberti, and it is very accurate. I love the quality of the color case hardening as well, very nicely done, have quite a few Uberti's.
I will call this the Remington Single Action Salvation Army
Please tell us for who the last remington 1890 was made in 1896, it seems to be interesting
The 1890s were made in a single batch in 1891 or 91-92. The guns were made, boxed, and shelved. They were sold as orders came in, so there is no way to know who bought the last one, and it probably wasn't the highest serial number. The highest serial known is 2028.
1890 seems like a really late time to be selling these guns
Still better than the Remington R51. Speaking of, that would be a rather interesting topic for a video!
I had a 2nd Gen R51. It deserves to be forgotten....making it a perfect fit for this channel.🤣
By 1877, Colt had marketed its first double-action revolver, so buyers were likely moving to the more advanced design. There is so little difference between the 1875 and the 1890 (just that the "sail" had been trimmed off, basically) that I'm surprised Remington/Winchester even bothered building the 1890 and should have just finished out the remaining parts as 1875's, since it had been in production for 24 years. For that curved rib under the barrel on the 1875 to make any real sense, you need to show the Remington 1858 and 1858 Conversion. The 1858 was a percussion revolver and the rib reinforced the loading lever under the barrel, and was kept even after the 1858 was converted to a cartridge gun. It was kept as a styling item to fit the 1875 into the Remington family.. I own Uberti clones of both the 1873 Colt and the 1875 Remington.
And colt built the rifle of Burgess?
A beautiful looking revolver nontheless.
4:23
I always misread that as "Illinois" lol
I have to say that the Colt SAA is the prettiest looking of those three.
For all the great things Remington could build, they always were behind. It seems like someone at Remington was afraid of taking a risk and by the time they built something, it was behind the times. The Remington rolling block was a Great rifle action and should have had more market but was behind Sharp's for hunting (and had a Good military rifle by the time the other companies were marketing repeating rifles)...
Ya'll Take Care and be safe, John
Rem was never behind the times. Their percussion revolvers were the best made, with steel barrels and cylinders, with a top strap, and removable cylinders. Colt didn't have removable cylinders until 1896. Rem made the first DA pistols, they made the O/U derringers, they made over 1 million rolling block rifles, so how many more should they have made? The RB rifles were the most used military rifle in the world in the 1870s to 1890s. They were the preferred rifle for long range competition. They were the first with a removable box magazine rifle, They were the first to adapt the Mauser bolt action system, the 870 shotgun is the standard which all shotguns are measured, and none of this sounds like a company behind the times.
Let's be honest here, as well as people buying the SAA if they wanted a SAA, there were also *far* superior revolvers out there on the market even by 1890, never mind 1896.
Not only did you have reliable double action revolvers by then, you were also starting to see swing out cylinders and top breaks, both of which reload a lot faster than this ole thing.
And then there's the not so small matter of reliable automatics starting to become a thing as well..
@@lafeelabriel Top breaks predated the SAA, funnily enough.
@@zacharyrollick6169 Just goes to show, for all it's fame the SAA was not exactly revolutionary, when compared with the rest of the world, even when brand new in 1870.
@@tomhenry897 Unless I was misinformed, the Colt SAA was significantly cheaper than a Smith & Wesson. As well as having less parts and being considered more durable.
should have made it double action
Mike Beliveau also has a great video about them.
Lots of companies peak and drop off, but Remington takes that to the extreme.
So why is it that we have modern reproductions of 1890 remingtons (only a few thousands made) but we don't have a modern reproduction of a Winchester-Hotchkiss (around 85 thousand or so were made)
Because you can't shoot a winchester hotchkiss in cowboy action.