Mike Barnes vs Chozen vs Johnny - Your Comments!
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- Опубліковано 1 сер 2024
- Do you think Mike Barnes is a better fighter than Chozen, Johnny, Dutch or Bobby? In this follow-up video, Ken discusses your comments and ideas about how to rank the top teen enemies to fight Daniel LaRusso from the first three Karate Kid movies. Of course, all of these characters could appear and fight in future seasons of Cobra Kai.
This review goes through a number of your comments in detail from "Could Mike Barnes beat Johnny, Chozen, Bobby, and Dutch?" • Could Mike Barnes Beat... and examines how those ideas impact fighter rankings.
Leave a comment and let us know who you think is the best fighter!
Check out @xavitrompeta and his cover of "You're the Best Around" • 🥋 The Karate Kid: You'...
The Cobra Kai students from Karate Kid Part I, Johnny, Bobby Brown, Dutch and Tommy were trained by John Kreese. All lost to Daniel LaRusso except Bobby, who was disqualified. Chozen, from Karate Kid Part II, trained under his uncle Sato, and started a fight to the death with Daniel. Finally, Mike Barnes from Karate Kid Part III was known as Karate's "Bad Boy" and "Tournament Terror," and hired by Terry Silver to defeat Daniel LaRusso.
0:00 Intro
1:35 Chozen landed a hit on Miyagi
2:42 Chozen trained US military with Sato
3:52 Mike was a national fighter
4:38 Chozen is willing to kill
6:23 Chozen gives the shirt off his back
6:35 Chozen wins in street fight, Barnes wins in tournament
8:31 Villains got tougher each movie, so Barnes is toughest
9:39 Karate Kid Part 2 and Part 3 are in the wrong order
11:08 Daniel has PTSD from death match with Chozen
12:34 Daniel didn't show signs of PTSD, beats Dennis
14:01 Terry Silver manipulated Daniel to be afraid
15:36 Doesn't make sense that Barnes gave Daniel trouble after Chozen
15:55 Barnes fought many fights in All Valley, Daniel fought once
17:02 Dutch looks the best, is underrated
17:36 Bobby was second place to Johnny the previous year
18:07 Kreese protected Johnny by sacrificing Bobby
19:05 If Bobby had Miyagi as a teacher, he could be champion
20:01 Bobby wins in real life
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Check out previous videos:
“Why Terry Silver Rocks:” • Why Terry Silver Rocks
"What Terry Silver Wants:" • What Terry Silver Wants
"Terry Silver in Cobra Kai Part 1:" • Terry Silver in Cobra ...
"Terry Silver in Cobra Kai Part 2:" • Terry Silver in Cobra ...
"Mike Barnes, Master Bully:" • Mike Barnes, Master Bully
"Dynatox Commercial:" • Terry Silver Dynatox C...
"New Terry Silver Promo! Quick Thoughts:" • New Terry Silver Promo...
"Terry Silver Promo Analysis" • Terry Silver Promo Ana...
"Karate Kid 3 - Storytime with Ken" • Karate Kid 3 - Storyti...
"Does Col. Dugan Know Kreese and Terry Silver?" • Does Col. Dugan Know K...
"Could Mike Barnes beat Johnny, Chozen, Bobby, and Dutch?" • Could Mike Barnes Beat... - Розваги
Ok, so as an experienced martial artist, and as someone who has been competing for years, being "fresh" is a HUGE disadvantage in a tournament fight. The first fight is always the hardest, it's when you freeze up the most, it's when you are at your most stiff, and when you are at your least sharp. When you go into fight 2 or three, you are sharp, agile, and far more loose. In MMA it's different because the level of contact is different, I couldn't see myself having 2 MMA fights in a row, it'd be brutal, but in point sparring? Barnes having had the opportunity to go through so many opponents before getting to Daniel who was fresh off the boat, huge advantage in Mikes favor. That being said, I think if we look at technique, and overall ability in a "real" martial arts situation, I would say that little Filipino dude from the first one would own all of them in real life. In the entire three part movies, he was the only one who showed real Martial arts technique and execution. You can tell that he was a real martial artist brought in to work as an extra in the tournament, as opposed to the rest of them who are clearly all just actors, lol.
Thank you for your excellent perspective! Have you ever seen a defending champion limited to just one fight in a real tournament?
@@KenCole Nope, never, and I don't think it's something that's ever been done from my experience..... I mean in all honesty, i stopped doing point sparring years ago when i started competing in BJJ tournaments and then when i made my transition to Muay Thai now that i'm living in Malaysia......When I competed in point sparring, the styles usually aren't mixed, not sure if they do something where there are point sparring martial arts tournaments referring to different styles now and days (i think there are freestyle competitions, but i never took part in those so couldn't really say), but when i was competing it was per division (age), rank above a certain belt level, and finally, within the organization. I was part of the WTSDA (world tang soo do association), and the tournaments were divided by regions. I mainly competed in Region 8 which composed most of the north eastern states given that I lived in NJ and since i placed, I made it to Nationals both years. In general, you competed with individuals from your same style as the tournaments were sanctioned by your organization. Every year the slate was cleaned, and most people didn't even remember who the prior years champ actually was or even if they were competing again, lol. That is what I like about these movies, they are so over the top it's funny. Like this idea that there are all of these thousands of fans all going wild in the stands, when you go to actual competitions it's usually just different Matts with the judges on the side, and maybe 10 to 20 seats in the sidelines for the very few people who go to actually watch the events..... BJJ tournaments and Muay Thai are far more like what you would see in these movies in terms of attendance and cheering fans, but then again, it's continuous action and open contact so it is far more entertaining than point competitions.
@@KenCole As someone who has been competetive for a long time (if you want to know my experience I can put it in a reply but I doubt you care to call it into question as is lol), the cloesest I have seen is a prior champion skipping preliminary rounds/qualfiers. Mainly in smaller shotokan, Kyokushin, etc. tournaments (offshoots and stylized, usually not in any main shotokan or kyokushin schools. Like never in world oyama/ashihara/seidokaikan/enshin/etc). I am also pretty sure this happened when 80% of kyokushin decided to basically sell out to K1 as a way to promote possible champions. As far as I know this didn't happen during the Andy Hug/Francisco Filho/Hajime Kazumi/Glaube Feitosa/Ryu Narushima era.
@@GokuInfintysaiyan So basically in your experience, returning champions would always be "warmed up" by higher-level prior fights before the championship match.
@@KenCole
Absolutely! Your instincts are sharper, your attention is faster, you’re already loose, you already have adrenaline so you’re less likely to get hurt by love taps, etc
Chozen would win for his sense of fashion alone. His shiny matching shirts and pants, his expensive chains and watches plus I dig his hair so I gotta give it to him
also he's jacked af
Definitely, he's the more experienced, being trained by Sato, better moves and more athletic.
LOL
@Glen Ros i think mike barnes is stronger then chozen but i think chozen is stronger then johnny
@@Mrd9960 how do u know he’s more athletic and experienced
"Dennis" must have been TOTALLY INFERIOR to Mike for Mike to not be intimidated by Daniel beating him up so easily.
Perhaps Johnny was easier for Kreese to control than Bobby was. Which was shown in the first movie. When Kreese told Johnny to sweep the leg, he clearly didn't wanna do that but didn't argue, whereas when he told Bobby to take Daniel out of commission, Bobby threw a fit, complained and argued then apologized to Daniel for it.
If we’re going by their older versions I gotta go with Chozen cause he knows the complete Miyagi Do system including those paralyzing strikes!
@Mike H Johnny is not "second". Daniel is superior to him too especially since he got the "upgrade" training with Chozen and Johnny became an alcoholic bum later in life and would lose to Barnes if Barnes kept up his training.
@@Zurround he's probably talking abt the 3 villains not all characters
@@justthinking650 then Johnny would be 3rd because Mike Barnes and Chozen both are superior to him.
@@Zurround that depends, we haven't seen current barnes yet but I bet ur right
@@justthinking650 I was talking about teen Barnes. So many jerks on these KK blogs keep insisting that Johnny would have beaten Mike back in the day and they have zero understanding of how plot devicing works. Way too much of a big deal was made PLOT wise in KK3 about how "superior" Mike was for Johnny to stand any chance against him. Ultimately its the script writers who get to decide who would beat who if the scene ever comes up and if Johnny wins it effectively turns the 3rd movie into a giant continuity error where Silver and Kreese are super over confident with a national level champion who is INFERIOR TO THE GUY DANIEL BEAT A YEAR EARLIER WITH A BROKEN LEG. It just really gets on my nerves.
The only reason Daniel beat Chozen was because the village, and his Uncle, turned against him. He was mentally unprepared and still hurt Daniel worse than anyone else. Additionally, when he was a quick stomp away from finishing Daniel Kumiko got involved. One cannot discount all that. Moreover, Chozen has been trained to fight with weapons, which buttresses the idea that a street fight is different than a tournament. And not all street fights are equal, eg Barnes likely has experience fighting street thugs which aren’t the same as other practitioners.
Daniel was mentally not the same guy in KK3. Was he traumatized? Maybe. Was he arrogant? More likely, and that would explain why he was dominated so easily by Barnes, after which Barnes lived rent free in his head.
You said it best!
Daniel has the biggest plot armour
Yessir
plus in kk3 he lacks the guidance of miyagi which he always has in kk2
Daniel was 100% traumatized against Barnes lol. And no arrogance there
Terry Silver: "A man can't stand, he can't fight."
Chozen: "... and I took that personally."
Chozen easily he trained American soldiers in Sotos dojo in karate kid 2. He was trained in full contact karate for killing ever since he was a child
I think, thematically, it makes sense that the trilogy would end on a tournament. But, I agree that a fight to the death has higher stakes
I’m not even sure how people can come up with Johnny or Chozen as the answer... without using conjecture. They have to create their own myths about those characters and not use the source material. Mike Barnes was a national level champion of karate. Featured in national magazines. Terry Silver could have recruited any Under 18 fighter in the world and had them fight for him as a ringer. He chose Mike Barnes. He didn’t pick Chozen “the great street fighter” who lost to Daniel in a street fight. He didn’t pick last year’s runner-up Johnny. He chose Mike Barnes. Mike also clearly had the best performance against Daniel. He beat him multiple times before the tourney, and then beat the hell out of him in the finals and literally had Daniel crying and saying he’s scared of him. How is Mike Barnes not the correct answer here?
Now that you bring up Terry Silver personally selecting Mike Barnes, the argument becomes devastating 😄
@@KenCole I feel like KK3 was going to be the finale, regardless of box office performance. John Avildsen was treating it the same way he would Rocky V a year later. Therefore, the script stacked the whole deck against Daniel. He had to fight a guy that we can assume was the top Karateka in the U.S. at least. Mike Barnes was set up to be Daniel’s greatest challenge. That’s just how the trilogy plays out, objectively.
no myths I just think chozen is more aggressive
he was trand by a 9ht/10ht dan
and he can fight pasntle when needed
You do realise Mike at his peak level was fighting a soft out of practise/training right?
Terry silver just wanted to pick someone in america that can hurt Daniel aggressively and its show again in the end fight.
Terry didn't care about anything else. Even when Terry train daniel, he made him hurt himself further. Making Danie more of a disadvantage.
Does Terry even knew about Chozen, i don't think so.
@@KenCole You do realise Mike at his peak level was fighting a soft out of practise/training right?
Terry silver just wanted to pick someone in america that can hurt Daniel aggressively and its show again in the end fight.
Terry didn't care about anything else. Even when Terry train daniel, he made him hurt himself further. Making Daniel more of a disadvantage.
Nobody talking about that. Daniel waste time training under Terry who only pretended to train him but really just hurting.
Yeah, Daniel was always up against Terry Silver, Kreese AND Mike. And Dennis, etc. as well... In Okinawa, it was basically just Chozen at some point, because Sato changed...
Yeah, that "ganging up" factor. I think that really DID affect Daniel... 🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔
A very great point - there was a lot of ganging up!
I would like to see a Ron Thomas aka Bobby against William Christopher Ford aka Denis. Both are masters of their form of marshal arts....
Chozen be trying to regain his honor like zuko LMAOOO😂😂😂. Love the channel brotha
Thank you!
Daniel in KK3 was more skilled than he was in KK2 and KK1, he took care of Barnes goons with ease and didn't fear Mike at first but when he threw all his skills at him…Barnes had countered every single move he had. Mind you Daniel is at his strongest, That's when Daniel started fearing Barnes. Silver was messing with him further and took away his focus from developing.
Excellent point!
he was not at his best in kk3,he was sloppy and not fighting up to his kk2 standards up until the last fight where even Miyagi himself says his best karate is still inside him.
Chozen was more tough than Mike ever was because he simply fed off of fear and a Daniel who wanted to run a business and not fight in the tournement,huge difference buddy
While, Hawk in Cobra Kai was kinda acting like Dutch, Hawk and Bobby seem to play the same role in the dojo. We don't know exactly how Kreese treated Bobby as a individual away from the other Cobra's, but I have a feeling that Kreese likely played Psychologically games with Bobby, like Kreese did with Hawk. Kreese would kinda play with Hawk's desire to be the best, but whenever Miguel or Robby were around, Kreese made it clear who he favored from a distance and Hawk noticed it. It wasn't until the end of season 3, where Hawk finally realized that no matter what he did, Kreese would never see him as the best. Bobby doesn't seem as competitive as Hawk, but it wouldn't be surprising, if Kreese would rise Bobby up only to reinforce that he sees Johnny as the best.
A really fascinating parallel.
@Mike H hawk = johnny + dutch
Miguel = johnny + daniel
Robby = mike barnes + johnny
Tory = mike barnes + young kreese
Johnny = mr miyagi + kreese
Samuel
Samuel
Samuel
Chozen is the most advanced of all them!
No. Barnes.
@@marissashantez6051 really it's chozen
@@jindrichsander7271 I like him too.
Even though Chozen, Johnny, have definitely improved, I don’t think a fighter like Barnes, even though his career may be gone, would ever stop training.
@Mike H I wonder if Silver stopped training?
@Mike H that’s true.
Wow I got mentioned!!! Thanks. Yea I’ve been too my through a tough time recently and watching through your videos is like therapy for me. Thanks
Thanks Richard, I appreciate your comments.
Ken, please theorize on the season four finale fight we know has to come: Terry vs. Daniel.
You're videos are so amazing. I love how much depth you give and how much breakdown you go into for each point. I'm a detail oriented person as well so I truly appreciate that, especially for a series/show/franchise of this magnitude. It's been beloved by many world wide for decades by so many and touches the hearts even more for martial artists such as myself who were greatly inspired growing up with it's influence.
One point I wanted to add to Daniel being fresh against Mike, is that it also means he's extremely cold, with no warm up matches etc to get his blood and adrenaline going while also knocking away that first time fear fighters experience when freshly approaching the ring. Mike had alot of matches, but he had no competition so he was uninjured and had plenty of energy on top of being warmed up and fully engaged in the heat of battle. Mike's domination over Daniel was there 100% of the time, but that's just another point I wanted to throw in as a competitor myself.
I can't thank you enough for these incredible videos my guy. I'm so happy I found your channel as I'll be supporting fully going forward 💯
Thank you so much for the comment, and thanks for watching! That's an excellent point about Daniel going in cold, and it may not be that much of an advantage for him.
Truly enjoy your breakdowns, man!!! Great stuff, and so nice to hear these things from an adult, hehe.
Chozen for sure is the best out of the lot as he trains for real life to the death style karate. If we go back to season 3 where Danieal re-unites and trains with him you now can see what he truely knows. He may not have known those skills he showed Daniel but you can be sure he would have known how to defend and counter most attacks already.
I agree and to add to the fact Chozen was the perfect student under Sato which is the same style as Miagi and Daniel. Also, Chozen was trained with an undercurrent of bitterness to make him extra mean. Both proteges embody the philosophy of their masters, Chozen finally adopted to release his anger in later years after Sato had died.
I agree ....if Chozen would have focus on that fight with Daniel he wouldn't lost.
Dang my comment didn't make it in. I was hoping it would since I made a few points i didn't see talked about.
Well anyhow a few things
1) Chozen and Barnes fought in different ways against Daniel and the sense of what was happening was different. With Barnes he saw a big scary guy (with the same haircut as Chozen) who was bigger and stronger while also a fighting champion. With Chozen, Daniel was effectively fighting an evil version of himself. Chosen was pissing him off, Barnes was terrifying him
2) Chozen used the same style as Daniel, meaning daniel had familiarity with Chozen's tactics. Barnes was stated to make up his own moves and used Cobra Kai kara(tang soo do)te which Daniel hadn't seen in a year
3) Daniel didn't come in "fresh", he came in cold. Barnes came in warm and already prepped to fight with that mindset present. Daniel was scared, unsure of what he was doing (also he was pudgy), and hadn't fought in a tournament in a year so he likely wasn't all that tactically prepared. Miyagi didn't care about tournaments meaning anything Daniel learned was meant to help him in a real fight, which is not efficient for a point-style tournament.
4) In the fights before the tournament Barnes was presented in a sequential pattern of unbeatability. The first thing displayed was his sheer power and size combined with his aggression. The second was skill and ferocity (foot on the throat). And finally that he was fully backed while Daniel was being ruined on every turn. Daniel only knew about Barnes' strengths. Barnes on the other hand knew tournaments better, fought dirty in the tournament (something daniel struggles with unlike in normal fights), and had time to get to know who Daniel was so he could beat him as best as possible for Terry. Barnes was never presented as stupid after all.
5) Chozen initiated a death match as a man abandoned by his family who fell from the top to the bottom, fighting in a style Daniel knew and in a situation Daniel was trained for. Barnes fought in an enviornement Daniel barely understood and hadn't seen in a year, with a style Daniel didnt know, while at the peak of his fame and support even from recognized champions. Chozen lost at his lowest. Barnes lost at his best. He lost to kata from traditional karate, something he never sees in tournament and something Chozen knows perfectly and can likely better execute.
6) Barnes benefits from tournaments due to being bigger and stronger. Single hits mean more. Chozen was in way better shape than Daniel, but was only a bit bigger. Chozen still would easily have the advantage of knowing more realistic combinations and would be better at asserting pressure in real fight by comparison. Would Barnes be bad at it? Not at all. We see him street fight. Would he be the level of Chozen? Unlikely. Chozen training soldiers was meant to demonstrate the caliber of his technique, the choreography level of the film shouldn't be what we go by considering Daniel was more skilled in 2 than in 1 and yet Johnny lost to an injured Daniel in 1 while Chozen at his lowest was still nearly even with (in my opinion) peak Daniel in 2. This is even more in his favor considering Daniel displayed good street-fighting instincts in all 3 films.
7) Barnes tries to make you fear him, Chozen likely would not be scared and would instead get pissed off, instantly going for a full-force assault. Barnes was shown to be really good at handling the defensive style of Daniel, but how would he fair against an aggressive swarmer like Chozen?
In a tournament I could see Chozen losing due to not understanding the rules, or being provoked into breaking them himself. In a fight? Chozen is far too experienced in martial arts taht are meant to be used for real world self-defense. Mike is not weak by any means and holds the size advantage, but Chozen knows more, has more experience, likely has better conditioning, definitely would have (in-lore) better technique, knows a martial art that would have grappling (okinwan karate has loads of grappling traditionally, especially from the family Miyagi), and couldn't care less about being a bad-boy. Chozen was mean always for an advantage or to prove that he was of a higher class. Barnes was invested in his badboy persona and the first time he encountered something remotely new he lost his composure. Chozen only lost to the knew technique after a long drawn-out bare-knuckle brawl. And again, Barnes was at his highest, Chozen at his lowest.
Thank you
i agree holy shit this is great chozen number one barns close second :p danielthird ahahah :p
Great analysis, I hope Ken Cole notices this
I disagree, Mike Barnes is better.
These three guys together is something I never knew I needed. They all compliment each other so well. You almost don't even need Daniel lol..
I got to be honest. Johnny is amazing at karate. But Chozen literally teaches army men, and is number one in karate in Okinawa. But… Mike Barnes is definitely driven to beat Daniel OVER A TOURNAMENT which is not insanely serious. However, Chozen was going to “earn” his honor back that Daniel took from him in a fight to the death. Not a fight for points in a tournament.
Well you have to remember for Barnes it was just a tournament. Beating Daniel was a career move. He would’ve become a Sensei by Kreese and Silver with financial compensation and would be leading Cobra Kai.
*wasn’t just a tournament
Understood. Thanks for another POV
Driven by wealth and Daniel had PTSD from Chozen
@@lordoffaiyum9727 eh, I see where you are coming from… but there was no CLEAR (CANON) evidence. Many say that in KK2- Cobra Kai show (LEGEND)
I still think Chozen is the strongest. He went up against Daniel using an offensive style which is not Miyagi-do, he was not mentally well during the fight, his focus was interrupted by the villagers turning on him using the drums which likely took him out of his mental game, also Kumiko got up behind him when he had Daniel up against the ropes... besides him hitting Kumiko likely made Daniel more motivated to fight and Chozen less so since we learn later he always loved her.
Chozen has so many mental hang ups going into that fight, yet he still beat a fresh Daniel who had plenty time to get into the right head space, while Barnes jumps Daniel while Daniel is trying not to pick a fight and Daniel was trained by Silver which is very much against everything he has been taught so far, probably losing a lot of his skill briefly until Miyagi told him to calm down.
While I liked the character of Mike Barnes, he was a loud mouth tournament fighter and a point fighter at that. Chozen was trained as a combat fighter with his Uncle's military background he would wipe the floor with Barnes in a street fight.
What if Bobby was fighting mike Barnes in the tournament?
That would be something to see.
Really enjoy your videos they are so fun
Thank you!
I like your content... keep the good work up, i only just found your channel!
Thanks for the shout out Ken! A lot to digest from this video. I am on team Mike Barnes but one thing Daniel had going for him is that both Johnny and Chozen were over confident walking into their respective fights against Larusso. Mike Barnes took the fight seriously and prepared accordingly. With that being said, you made an excellent point, it was not like Chozen was fighting Navy Seals. Mike mopped the floor with every fighter he faced in KK3. An untrained Daniel even landed a solid sucker punch on Johnny and gets a cheap shot on Chozen's balls. He never comes close to rattling Mike until he gets a lucky punch in the tournament
Yes, I think you're right - Johnny and Chozen had much more ego going on and were maybe too overconfident. Barnes was a level-headed machine.
just recently came across your channel. Glad I did. Great content. You put a serious spin and give some great facts and perspectives on an otherwise fun popcorn and bubblegum type movie.
Thank you, I really appreciate that!
Chozen landed that (cheap) hit on Mr. M using a weapon, not his hands/feet. Love your videos sir!
Thank you! Yes, that's great point about Chozen using a weapon.
Brilliant as always brotha. 👍👍🥋
Your logic is impeccable in regards to Mike Barnes procuring the coveted role of #1 antagonist against Daniel... Period... And, love your channel... "Your the best! Around!"
Thanks so much Russell!
We must remember that Barnes was fighting illegally in the final tournament fight. With Daniel only being trained to score points legally it would of been very hard to defend strikes that come illegally. For me its too close to call between Mike and Chozen. Two different situations. Point scoring tournament and fight to death. If Daniel had no rules with Mike as he did with Chozen I think Daniel would of landed his own strikes the same as he did against Chozen.
No, Miyagi had no tournament experience, Daniel learned what was legal there. Remember he nearly lost points for retreating so much that he was out of bounds
@@HepCatJack I disagree. Daniel and Miyagi would know the rules by now in his second tournament. Daniel going out of bounds was not cause he didn’t know the rules it was because he was scared of Mikes attacks. Also would like to note that Miyagi Do Karate is defensive in nature with a counter. This type of fighting is perfectly suited to a tournaments point scoring. We also know that Daniel didn’t get nearly enough training for this tournament and Miyagi only had time to teach him the kata technique and not refining the skill set he already had. Not to mention Silver had probably bought the referee off to allow Mikes numerous illegal strikes and out of match cheap shots. There is no way Daniel would be able to perform at his best under these conditions. Making Barnes look better than he actually was in the fight.
@@skintrader100 you wrote: "With Daniel only being trained to score points legally it" where in the film does Miyagi mentions "scoring points legally" ? He only said focus on defense, points will come.
Look at the first fight of the tournament of the first film. He's not facing a Cobra Kai opponent, and he gets warned by the ref. He doesn't know about the boundaries. He
maybe be feeling some stress from having been threatened earlier but not afraid of this kid he doesn't know.
ua-cam.com/video/sj6R4nkotKI/v-deo.html
@@skintrader100 on the same video whose link I posted at the 2 minute 10 mark, he says: "What are the rules here ?". Miyagi answers: "Don't know". If not for Allie who did her best to remember from when she had attended for Johnny, Daniel would have been lost.
@@HepCatJack Yeah thats at the first Tournament. When here have I spoken about the first Tournament? My comments are about the 3rd film. About how it seemed Mike Barnes outclassed Daniel more than Chozen seemed to of done. Keep up.
You made some really good points there 🌳🐍🦅🥋
Chozen literally kicked off part of a Stone Statue, it's no contest.
and mike should scale to that
REMEMBER - Terry the bad guy also pretend to train Daniel but was really wasting his time and injuring Daniel further.
Mike fought against a injured, soft and out of practise Daniel.
plus daniel got chubby and slower in karate kid 3 lol
@@123hockey9 I mean that was more the actor not the character
Agreee
Thanks Ken for another enjoyable video and for putting my comment up! By the movies timeline it is clear that Mike is the biggest challenge and no one dominated Daniel like him. What I wonder is, if Johnny and all the other Cobras quit Karate after the first movie or if someone of them had to fight Mike in KK3? From the board we see, it seems that only new or unknown characters took part in that tournament so one could argue that the overall competition in KK3 was weaker than in KK1. Btw, how often did Darryl Vidal fight in the All-Valley? As he won in 81 he probably was too old in KK3.
Ken, your videos are amazing! I agree with the point that Daniel was fresh in KK3 but I think he also didn't warm up. He was pushed to the final round and didn't have the adreline and physical practice you get in a real fight.
This is a great point. Maybe it's worse to go into the final fight cold.
We can speculate all we want, but ultimately it comes down to the writers. You have to think about what the writers want. The writers want the audience to get invested and keep coming back for more. Therefore, the writers will always present the characters in a way that keeps us guessing and subsequently speculating. So much so, that some of us will even stat a UA-cam channel to discuss it. That way at the end of the day we'll all keep tuning in to see what happens. With that being said, I really love your work. Your knowledge of this particular universe, passion, and analysis makes it that more fun to follow this franchise.
Thank you very much! And hopefully all these videos are a fun way to get at exactly what you're saying.
The writers are a squirrelly lot. Kudos to them. However, based on what they've given us to go off of, your breakdowns and analysis is really good. I'm subscribed and can't wait for your next vid!
@@robhoppe9189 thank you and its great to have you aboard! Some fun stuff coming 😉
An element you might not be thinking about when it comes to Daniel. He trained hard for months for the all valley tournament. Then his training slowed down. Miyagi was building an audition on his house for Daniel. Daniel was going to prom and everything was okay with Johnny so his training has slowed down. When he went to Okinawa they still only train briefly. But still relatively close to his first tournament. Then he fought chosen. Which took a lot out of him. So after that he wasn't training. Then he had to fly home. And once again his training was very little. Almost a year goes by before the all valley starts coming around again. He's not prepared for Barnes not physically or mentally. Then when miyagi tells him he will not train him for the tournament. That puts Daniel in a bad mental state. Then he gets his mind twisted by Terry silver. And still very little training and bad training at that. No new moves. No repetition of moves. To become second nature. Then when miyagi starts training Danielle again he's teaching him kata. No real skill training. But he knows Daniel isn't right mentally.
Think about it. Daniel Wednesday all valley and basically stops or slows down his training. Gets into huge fight with Ali and breaks up with the love of his life. Danny has to fly to Okinawa. Starts falling in love with what another girl. His mind is not on training or fighting. Miyagi starts training him more. Knowing there could be trouble. Gets into a fight to the death. Where he's hurt. Spence the rest of the time healing and spending it with the girl. She ends up leaving him to stay the course for her dream of dancing. Then he flies all the way home. No training. Not in a great mental state. Now enter Mike Barnes who's a bully. Daniel was simply not prepared.
It's like saying that Clubber Lang was a better boxer/fighter than Apollo Creed just because he knocked out Rocky so quickly. Yet Rocky also knocked out Clubber Lang very quickly too...
I would give it to chozen as he was taught all of the Miyagi secrets which was to defend against warring factions against Okinawa with him knowing all of the secrets to fight to the death he would easily dominate over Mike Barnes or Johnny in a real fight I would give Mike Barnes the trophy as the the best tournament fighter as he had more experience fighting in a certain parameter of limitations
You deserve more subscribers
Thank you! New subscribers are welcome!
You deserve wayyyyyy more subs
Thank you!
Another argument that I didn't see..
As the antagonist becames more tougher movie after movie, the tech to defeat him becames better too..
Crane's kick worked on Johnny, but didn't work against Chozen. To defeat Chozen, he had to use the kk2 technique.. But I think even trying to use that on Mike, it wouldn't work.
Only the ultimate kata worked against Mike. On the cobra kai's dojo fight, Silver told ironic to Daniel to use Crane's kick against Mike, because he knew that wouldn't work. Theoretically, the kk2 tech wouldn't work too..
Another great video for u channel! U channel deserves much more..
I think that we all want see u making analysis of cobra kai series: Johnny, Daniel, Kreese, Chozen, Miguel, Robby, Tory, Sam, Hawk...
For example, it would be interesting an analysis of the fight with Kreese vs the two big guys on ep 6, s3..because it's a thing that we don't see on the series.
How u think he won? Did u think that is possibly he used the weapons on the wall?
Very interesting point about the skills learned/used in the different films! Would love to delve into Cobra Kai more and it will definitely happen with Terry Silver joining the series!
I've always espoused the Daniel has had PTSD theory after KK2. It's not just present in his fights with Barnes. His entire personality is more amplified and erratic regarding basically everything in KK3. PTSD does not just present itself as fear. I don't know if this was intentional by the writers, directors, Macchio, etc., but it does work.
Another thing with chozen is, when Daniel went for the crane kick, chozen proceeded with caution, faked out the rush, then punished Daniel, Johnny just ran straight in
Great video! I love your channel 👍🏻👍🏻
And thank you very much for sharing my music 🙏🏻🎺
by thw way, it was my bday today, what a great gift 👍🏻
Amazing job! And everyone should check out your channel! Happy Birthday!
My question is did Johnny continue his karate training with someone else ? Cause it seems his knowledge & skill
In the first episode of Season 2, Kreese says "I taught you everything you know." And Johnny says, "not everything." So that's very interesting and makes it possible he learned from someone else too.
Daniel did NOT beat Chozen in the fight. Chozen defeated himself. the entire fight, Chozen was dominating and countering. it wasn't until he saw his master, Sato, supporting Daniel that he lost focus and was distracted, allowing Daniel one last chance to survive.
Almost every fight, Daniel was beaten completely and won only by distraction. In a real fight, and no rules like a tournament, Daniel is the weakest of all the KK movies and would lose.
Distraction is what cause the 3 antagonists to lose
Johnny distracted when Kreese tells him to use illegal hits
Chozen distracted when Sato supports Daniel
Barnes distracted when Daniel does meditation during bout.
They all knew Daniel's weakness. But Daniel knew theirs too. Distraction. Deflection. Misdirection.
its amazing that this guys analyzes e movies that are just that a movie?
We all saw Mike Barnes vs. Chozen in season 5, it was a pretty close fight. I hope they give us a backstory on Mike Barnes' upbringing or background
Its tough to say, all points are really thought out
I'm not disagreeing with you, I will say however, you made the point several times that Barnes dominated Daniel in non tournament settings, however, those fights were very short and eventually interrupted. In his final fight with Chozen, it not only takes Daniel a while to land a hit on Chozen, it takes him longer than those fights Daniel had with Barnes early on. So we don't know of Daniel could have gained his feet had those fights with Barnes gone on longer.
Here is the thing. Dennis attacked Daniel and reacted the way he was taught by Mr M. On the other hand he did the complete opposite with Barns after seeing Jessica kicked he went on the offensive and attacked. This took Daniel out of his comfort zone since he was taught the karate was for defense only and Barns took advantage of that.
I was praying that I would be in the video, I’ve watched most of it but I won’t get my hopes up but I hope I will next time, but it’s a really good video
Thank you for commenting, and I hope to do more of these in the future!
I'd have to go with Chozen bothback during the original trilogy and even more so now, though we don't know what Barnes has been up to since Karate Kid 3.
Personally, I'm a fan of all of them but I always felt that we never got to see enough of Barnes fighting nor were we given much information about his training etc.
Would love Barnes to comeback!
That's a good point about Barnes, we didn't get too much info back in the day. 100% agree on a Barnes comeback.
In Cobra Kai Kreese often refers to Johnny as his greatest student. Would that technically include Mike as well?
One thing I said in the previous video but..i was kind of late,is that Daniel was in a bad physical shape in the third movie,and not only that but a thing with PTSD really bothers me: Daniel was indeed taunting Mike Barnes but I think his PTSD kicked in when he took that harsh beating,a physical pain that would remind him of another very painful moment,like a..fight to the death.😉
This debate could go for hours and we would still not have a clear answer,and I think that's really amazing
It sounds like it can only be settled by... a fight on Cobra Kai!
So what about the movie who might would you think would win out of all tenager fighters?
DL managed to give Chozen a good fight and ultimately defeated him. DL couldn't one decent hit on Mike Barns before plot armor kicked in for DL.
Yeah but you don’t think Daniel won against Chozen in KK2 because of plot armor too? He’s the main character but on paper had no business not being beaten handily by Chozen. Main character privileges imo.
Chosen for this event but it will always be a good asset in your work to do so for miyagi vs chosen by you and your business partners in ota
Thanks for the shout out and mentioning my comment. Not sure that's ever happened to me before. I stand by my comment though. Barns would be breakfast for Chozen. While Barnes dominated Daniel Everytime they scuffed... to be honest so did Chozen. Only Chozen floored Daniel much quicker. Also, I believe Chozen lost the final fight because he lost his honor and wanted to die.
For sure and thank you for the excellent comment!
that guy who kicked daniels leg was a great theory. he was really good but threw it away for his sensei.
As an Okinawan Goju ryu karate practitioner myself.Karate is sometimes misunderstood.there are some people who think that they are better than others because of their belt.Which is so not true.In order to be a good martial artist we must have balance as Miyagi said ''Lesson not just karate only,lesson for whole life,If whole life have balance,everything be better".
Why does Silver say when Robby is training Kenny say one of rules of QuickSilver I forget which one it was
Chozen is the most strongest antagonist of the karate kid trilogy, during the final fight/death match in KKII, 1 small detail is that Chozen fought smarter than the rest, he baited out Daniel’s crane kick then anticipated, grabbing Daniel’s leg putting him in a very vulnerable position and then knocking him over. He’s the only antagonist that dodged the crane kick, he’s a miyagi-do prodigy, that knows a lot more than Daniel. Daniel only knows Miyagi-do defence only, no offence, Chozen knew both offence and defence, let’s not forget he’s the only antagonist in the karate kid trilogy with a six-pack, at least for the younger side. Daniel only won because of lot Armour. In my opinion 1 of the things that went wrong with KK2 is how powerful the writers made Chozen out to be, they made him so powerful that it doesn’t make sense how Daniel won despite it actually happened in the movie. Realisticly Chozen would’ve won.
I agree with everything here 100%
There is no Karate Kid trilogy.
@@giovannigiovanni.7220 my bad, the karate kid movies
@Mike H maybe
@@HumbleHurricane thank you
On Cobra Kai Kreese's Captin in Vietnam im guessing he was his SENSEI is it possible thats style might be Sato training he did train the Military ?
Barnes back in 1985 was better than chosen but now chosen is 3 times better. Also chosen would have won if kumiko was not there to save Daniel and Barnes every time kicked larusos ass
Your right about Kumiko helping Daniel. Plus, Chozen was all offense in trying to kill Daniel, while Daniel was just protecting himself. Chozen punched himself out and he was tired. The crowd gave Daniel that extra support. If you played against a hostile crowd in any sport even in High School the crowd can pressure you, especially on a free throw. When Chozen saw his uncle support Daniel, he lost focus.
Hey Ken Cole, I posted that my money is on Mike over Chozen (as their teen versions) if its a TOURNAMENT FIGHT or a STREET FIGHT not involving certain weapons like sword or spear then Mike wins too. I think the one type of fight where Chozen has the advantage is with sword or spear or nunchuck. I think he SPECIALIZED in that though Mike might have training in that too but not shown in KK3.
That's a good point, Chozen might have dominated with weapons.
Mike Barnes fight was the simple fact that fear had taken ahold through weeks of intimidation, manipulation and some personal failures. He came around but lost some courage. It okay to loose to opponent, not to lose to fear.
Chosen is the best for the simple reason that every time he fights he has accepted that he may have to fight to the death and is prepared to do so!
Don't know about that first one dismissing Chozen landing his shot on Miyagi. I'd usually agree on the cheap shot argument if the fight hadn't already started. Everyone here already knew they were in a fight. To me throwing Daniel at him was a calculated move, a distraction.
I do agree with you on Bobby however.
Season 5 put Johnny above them both when he took out all of Silver's men by himself. It's about time too. Johnny Laurence is not only back in the conversation, I'd say he's a strong contender for the baddest dude in the Karate Kid universe at this point aside from Miyagi himself.
Chozen would tear up anyone in the Karate Kid franchise..... Also, keep in mind, almost every fighting scene in 2, Chozen was inebriated.... The fact that he's inebriated in 2 against Daniel is the only reason Daniel won. Chozen is the best fighter (besides Miagi or Soto) in the entire franchise.
bro Mike 3 shots Chozen how?
Chozen is the true heir of Miygai-Do Karate. His anger and lack of balance was the only thing that held him back. Once Chozen gained his center, his humility, and a purpose -- coupled with the secrets texts of Miyagi-Do -- there is really no one on his level. Personally believe he would mop the floor with everyone, but now there is a new factor: Chozen's moral center. Even though he could, he may choose to do things in a certain way as to not befoul the legacy of Miyagi-Do. Just because he can, doesn't necessarily mean that he will. In fact, I suspect he would do things to avoid violence if all possible. But I guess we'll see!
Your video on "Could Mike Barnes Beat Johnny, Chozen, Bobby, and Dutch?" is my favorite video of your's since "Why Terry Silver Rocks", could you do a sequel to that video expect do it with the sensei's or with the new generation.
Interesting you mention that...
@@KenCole In my mind *SPOILER ALERT*
@Mike H Maybe.
You know Terry Silver is truly a threat when Johnny, Mike Barnes and Chozen all team up against Daniel, their former rival to take him down
In my humble opinion, S5 Chozen proved he is the strongest fighter from them all if he gives all he has. After he hurt Silver s leg, Terry became unsure if he can win, so he took the Katana. And even Katana vs Sai he lost. From a scale 0-100 when nobody has 0 and nobody has 100 i say its like this:
Miyagi: 99 (the only)
Sato/Sunyung: 98
Chozen: 95
Silver: 93
Barnes: 90
Daniel: 88
Johnny: 85
Kreese: 80
etc. From the teeny Miguel is the leader with Robby directly behind him.
Some people, especially many Americans because of the UFC or MMA popularity, forget martial arts isnt just about 1-1 unarmed fighting, thats combat sport or sport martial arts. All kind of blunt or edged weapons belong to the martial arts cake, and if you juge the whole cake, you can see why Chozen and Silver are 1 and 2 in totality. They are both excellent in unarmed but also deadly in edged weapons. They are like two Samurai. Give Barnes, Daniel or Johnny any kind of blunt or edged weapon and let them fight one of the two, they would be death in 10 seconds.
I give you an example: There are some points on your hand which are very sensitive. If you press there on the right spot with the right power, its so painfull that anyone opens his hand so the pain gets lesser, and an object in his hand wont by there anymore. But not in any legal combat sport direct attacks to manipulate the hands, fingers etc. are legal. Even such small things show even MMA/UFC are not the whole cake of martial arts, only a piece of it, a very important piece yes, but still not the whole cake.
HI ken thats a tough one they all have different moves would say mike jonny chozen stay safe my friend 🙌
Thanks Thomas!
9:40 another thing about that take, remember that Wooden Dummy Daniel had a hard time breaking in karate kid 3? It wouldnt make sense because in Karate kid 2, he was able to break all 6 ice and he didn’t have bruises on his hand, now all of sudden he didn’t have the strength to break the Wooden dummy? That’s what confuses me and another reason why Karate kid 3 should have been part 2
There’s an outtake I just saw that was filmed during the karate kid where you see Bobby kneeling after he injures Daniel. Then the ref says he was disqualified. And he walks up to Kreesey takes his belt off and throws it at his senseis feet then storms out. Bobby was the best guy there. Not only was he a great fighter but he was honorable too. He realized his sense I forced him to do a dishonorable thing and once he got disqualified refused to have anything more to do with Cobra Kai.
He was also the guy to tell the other Covra kais to go easy on Daniel when they started beating him up. He should be on cobra Kai too.
These Three reminds me of 3 Apprentices of Sidious: Maul, Dooku, and Grievous.
I thought Vidal was second place during 1983?
The Chozen of 2021/22 seems to be more level headed and deliberate and has learned from his past mistakes by letting anger cloud his judgment. He teaches class obviously karate and knows so much more about the craft. I believe he has reached master status.
And one more thing. How do we know if Silver paid off a bunch of the fighters so Barnes could make the finals? I’m reaching at this point but it does fit in with Silvers aproach to things.
I believe it was Daniels focus why Daniel struggled against Mike. Even in the end miyagi tells him to focus! And Daniel focuses up and easily disposed Mike
Johnny is a very skilled fighter, Chozen is beyond him, Mike is more skilled than Johnny, but not as skilled as Chozen. Johnny is the best of the best of LA, Chozen is Okinawa’s greates, and Barnes is USA recognized. Chozen will beat Johnny very easily, the fight won’t last a minute. Now Barnes is a very good fighter too. But I still think Chozen would kick his rear end. From what we know Chozen’s life is Martial Arts. He learned at a very young age. Barnes for all we know started in late elementary or middle school. It would be a good fight, but no question Chozen is the best of them all!
No he is not he lost to daniel in a death match something we know johhny and mike wont do.Daniel keep running out of the ring or he would get injured
Chozen had that chance and still failed.Anybody in karate or a person with high iq or even a normal thinking person can tell ya it comes down to johnny and mike and it would be a hard battle but i favor johhny i mean they are both agressive but mike is way to aggressive and johnny would be forced to go into defense but eventually he might win or mike but nottttttttttttttt chozen who lost the the little baby daniel in a fight to the dammmm death loll
And if you say johnny and mike lost the all valley i can just say daniel keep running like a baby and if you paid attention you would see that johnny won and the ref did not count the point so i dont care what anyone say johnny is beating chozen
@@kymanilinton7777 I like Johnny too, he's cool, funny and badass but he's also a recovering alcoholic.
Chozen and Barnes would beat him decisively.
@@Tigercat-ei8hn are you talking about young versions?
@@kymanilinton7777 Younger versions Johnny is still behind Chozen and Barnes.
Present day Chozen is above Johnny and Daniel.
We don't know about Barnes, but if they bring him back it's highly likely he's going to be a massive threat to Daniel and Johnny otherwise there is no point bringing him into the story.
Cool.
Johnny says in Cobra Kai season 2 episode 6 that Tommy came 2nd in the 1983 All Vally tournament not Bobby
I always thought Sato was ultimately the most powerful fighter. Currently Chozen should be somewhat akin to Sato as he appears to have been training actively all these years. If Mike Barnes has been actively competing and training all these years then he could possibly be a match for Chozen. Although in the end I think Chozen would be victorious.
I've been asking for a Johnny Lawrence vs Mike Barnes showdown in season 4. He will probably show up and be the bad boy he is and Johnny would tell him to cram it and it hits the fan.
I would totally be on board for that.
@Ken Cole And if you listened carefully the very first episode when Johnny was working and got fired by that mean lady with the TV? That phone call he called his boss Mike so......possibility it's Barnes and already some bad blood from that?
@@TheRyantologist I know, it's interesting... could it be the same Mike? Man I don't know.
@Mike H agreed!
@@KenCole I mean it could but it's extremely rare when any series has two characters of the same name, even if one is a background character that no one cares about.
Why is teaching military personnel hand to hand combat seen as being so impressive? I've seen video's of lower level MMA practitioners rolling with soldiers & taking them down/submitting them with ease.
An interesting point...
@@KenCole I mean these MMA guys just used basic wrestling and BJJ.
I would like to see a rematch with Daniel and Mike Barnes in Cobra Kai. It would be interesting to see how that would turn out with Daniel’s experience level now and learning from Chozen.
Yes, and it would be interesting to see what Mike Barnes has been up to...
We have it now, but Barnes is no longer a legit Sociopath
I have nothing against voting Barnes for best fighter. However, there are a few things I would like to point out. If you look at the way Chozen fights when he isn’t fighting Danny, compared to when he is, it is hard not to notice that Daniel has some plot armour on his side. Sato (and therefore also Chozen) knew everything that Mr. Miyagi (and therefore also Daniel) knew. That puts them even. However, Chozen has been training with Sato his whole life, and Daniel has been training what? A year? Also, Sato most likely put more effort into Chozen than Mr. Miyagi did with Daniel. So, I personally think that you should consider how daniel had a lot of plot armour against Chozen.
As far as actor not sure but for today Chozen but back in the 80's Barnes
Remember that Okinawa martial arts dates back to the 1400s. Chozen confirmed that Mr Miyagi's ancestors were involved in using their karate skills to fight off invasions during a war. Thus, I think it's safe to say that a karate dojo in Okinawa would be at least above the average dojo in the rest of Japan. Thus, by extension, if Sato's karate dojo is among the best in Okinawa, it's not too much of stretch to say that it's also among the best in all of Japan, meaning that Chozen's skill level would have been within that of a national Champion of Japan. Since karate(and other martial arts) in the US is seen more as a hobby/sport than something taken as seriously as it is in Japan, being a national karate champion in the US(while still a good achievement) does not compare with being a national karate champion in Japan(the country where karate originated). It's like comparing a straight A honors student in an American high school with an equivalent honors student in places like Seoul or Tokyo. Even an average to slightly below average student from those places would become a straight A student if they were placed in an American high school. Imagine how much better their top students would be. Thus, I still think that on their best day, while Chozen may lose to Mike Barnes in a tournament, he would definitely destroy Barnes in a street fight with no rules
Thank you for your comment!
So many fights. So many battles.
Season 1 had the 1st tournament.
Season 2 had the school brawl.
Season 3 had the home invasion.
Season 4 may have a prom fight.
The graduation will be a war zone.
I fully expect the COBRA KAI series finale will be the karate version of BLAZING SADDLES.
You’re right, how will they keep topping themselves.