For lats I do: •Weighted Pull-Up variations •Single arm cable rows (elbow low and in) •Single arm cable lat pull-in (elbow up coming down at an angle) For upper traps: •Incline barbell row (elbows at 90 degrees). For mid back: •Barbell Helms row (elbows at 45 degrees). This is what worked for me. The lat pulldown is good too, but the weighted pull-ups are better for me because I lift too much on lat pulldowns and it’s annoying to set up as I’m lifting significantly higher than my body weight.
Video idea. I have 3 spartan races at big bear mountain at the ski slopes. A 21k, 10k, 5k in 2 days. Trying to balance gym training and running I can find a bit difficult espiwhen you add work and life since running seems to take so much time compared to gym
I will say one small chnage that has helped is making sure I'm having enough soduim before and after running so I don't feels sluggish after runs. Since I live in the desert where it's dry.
I'm not sure why people shut-off common sense when it comes to back training. You have a complex nervous system that provides a ton of feedback when you train, use it. You can feel exactly what is being hit if you're training at an appropriate intensity. Or, maybe people just aren't up to speed on anatomy and are working in the wrong way to get where they're trying to go. This really seems to be the case for people trying to get "wider". It's more than your lats that gives you back width, and you won't get it if you ignore the other muscles.
Teres and lats are the muscles that come out and create a wider v taper. Most other back muscles are central and create a thicker back. I'm not sure if I'm understanding you. How are muscles like the rhomboids going to make you wider?
@@JoshBenware You answered your own question, it's the teres that people overlook or under-train. It's that muscle that makes the difference in the appearance of a wider back, especially from the front view. I pulled up your profile, you did a great job on your teres, and it shows with a great taper. I doubt that was an accident.
@nickvoelker7180 thank you, but I lacked good lat development in that pick. I had more of a T-taper rather than a V, 😅. I blame it on too many rows and wide grip pullups. Now that I've been doing more neutral narrow grip pullups with a lean away from the bar, my lats are starting to fill in much better that they were in that pic.
@@JoshBenware Haha, I was comparing you to real world people. Neutral close grip is my primary vertical pull, it does the job quite well. I've been working the last year to widen my lats out too. I've been more strength focused previously, so, lots of heavy rows. Lats were there, but lacking that flare and under developed teres from 30yrs of ignoring them.
I enjoy, and feel like I get more out of, various row movements vs. pull-ups. I haven't done them in quite a while. Nothing wrong, just not where I spend my time.
I do think pullups are eventually a must. Eventually, you rep out the full stack at the lat pulldown station, and you have to find something more to continue progressing. I think the pulldown full stack in my gym is ~250 lbs and my combined body weight neutral grip pullup 1RM is 275 lbs. I can absolutely get a TON out of doing lat pulldowns with "only" a 250# stack, probably for several more years. But what happens when I'm at a 3 plate weighted pullup? 4 plates? There are a ton of variations to make pullups harder but if you like the basics (grip width / amount of supination) you just gotta add more weight. TLDR just do both as your vertical pulls. Strive to get better at chinups / pullups along the way, they're challenging but oh so rewarding 💪
If you're out of three play weighted pull-up man you're a natural Beast because the rest of your lifts are going to be equal to that. At that point it's about how much punishment you want to put on the body to get 1% gains
@@MassiveIron I'm not sure if I can get to a 3 plate chinup this year, but it's certainly a mid term goal for me (probably laser-targeted for late next year). I'm learning to use all of the tools at my disposal to work toward those goals. I'd be flat out elated if I hit a 300 lb combined body weight pullup this year. I think that's totally achievable with a dedicated bulk and working my back as hard as I know how. Luckily all of that lifting volume is so flexible in loading that I can do almost everything from lat pulldowns to higher rep bodyweight pullups, to 'crazy' weighted pullups and it's all productive in the grand scheme. For what it's worth, hammering my rows helps greatly too. 💪
I only like pull-ups in the 3-5 rep range, I love pull-ups but trying to do higher reps gets me no progress while 3 reps has me constantly getting stronger
This was a very good video. I love training my back, it can take a lot vs most of the rest of my muscle groups. I do 18 sets/wk, 21 if you include traps. Hamstrings on the other hand…6 sets of those per week and I can barely walk. 😂
I hate pull-ups, but do five sets every week. With a bad genetics for lats - meaning poor insertions - they only grew significantly after I started doing pull-ups…
Yeah man no doubt I wish I would have done more pull-ups in my first 10 years. I have long arms and pull-ups kind of suck for me but looking back that's one of the things I wish I would have done more of
It's also quite limiting to think that only vertical pulling can hit the lats. Depending on the type of grip you use, you can easily hit the lats on a cable row/chest supported row/ row machine. It also lacks nuance to say you must hit a 50/50 split between back thickness and width focused training. That split should be adjusted based on the person's goals and weaknesses. Perhaps thickness isn't a problem, but width is lagging. Adjust accordingly. Or perhaps you just straight up want a thicker back (as i do), adjust accordingly.
Surely genetics plays a big role in getting an ideal back, but.... I believe mid and low rows, and verticals pulls to mid and low sections of the back are not utilized enough by many while nearly everyone is upper trap dominant in the rows and pulls, even rear delt flys without realizing. I concentrated in the low and mid sections in both rows and pulls and the thing just keeps on growing.
it's pretty new to me that Goodmorning actually work the entire back like RDL's , i always thought because the weight is not pulling against the Traps it only works the Lowerback (and posterior chain ofc)
@@barbellbryce SSB is my new Love in the Gym (even tho the one we have in the gym is fully metal there no cushions ☠️💀) , but Good morning and Bulgarian Split Squat has ALWAYS felt so awkward and uncomfortable untill i tried the SSB .. Even swapped out Back Squat completely for SSB Squat (as i never been a good squatter and SSB felt natural intently) .. But ye good to know actually , i always thought ye RDL work the traps somewhat because the weight stretch but Goodmorning is only a posterior chain movment but ye good to know
Vertical pulls are INCREDIBLY effective. Like how on earth did my back balloon up so fast? 2/3 of my back volume was just pullups last year. Weighted, body weight, didn't matter. I literally recomped +3" on my chest measurement last year (I stayed at basically the same body weight...the entire year). If you love RDLs, I'd give a 'yates' style row a try. I do mine double overhand with straps. Strict torso around 45 degrees. I set it up just like a RDL, eccentric to bar at the knees (or wherever you feel is a good starting position). It feels like an amazing compliment to a deadlift or RDL, especially if you have the posterior strength to stay locked in. If you let your scaps really protract during the eccentric and really stretch, it feels amazing on both the traps and rhomboids.
I Love the deadlift, but it is an exercise that has the potential to eat up a lot of training time due to the number of warm up sets needed after one has built a fair amount of strength. This is the first time in years where I have not programmed the deadlift and instead focused more on pendlay rows, dead rows, and rdls instead. While I do miss the doing deadlifts weekly, my posterior A workout time is reduced by around 10min.
Yeah that's one of the reasons I've always pushed 20 to 25 reps tops per week, and really you can get away with doing only two sets per week if you wanted to just to save about energy for other things
Struggling with pull-ups? Check this out... ua-cam.com/video/eUMns4tLDwQ/v-deo.html
Weighted Pull-up variations, heavy rowing, and a little deadlifting summarizes my approach.
Worlds strongest gripper is what I aim for
Grip and rip
For lats I do:
•Weighted Pull-Up variations
•Single arm cable rows (elbow low and in)
•Single arm cable lat pull-in (elbow up coming down at an angle)
For upper traps:
•Incline barbell row (elbows at 90 degrees).
For mid back:
•Barbell Helms row (elbows at 45 degrees).
This is what worked for me. The lat pulldown is good too, but the weighted pull-ups are better for me because I lift too much on lat pulldowns and it’s annoying to set up as I’m lifting significantly higher than my body weight.
Video idea. I have 3 spartan races at big bear mountain at the ski slopes. A 21k, 10k, 5k in 2 days. Trying to balance gym training and running I can find a bit difficult espiwhen you add work and life since running seems to take so much time compared to gym
I will say one small chnage that has helped is making sure I'm having enough soduim before and after running so I don't feels sluggish after runs. Since I live in the desert where it's dry.
I cant do pull ups instead i do heavy lat pull downs
That's me right there
👍👍👍
I'm not sure why people shut-off common sense when it comes to back training. You have a complex nervous system that provides a ton of feedback when you train, use it. You can feel exactly what is being hit if you're training at an appropriate intensity. Or, maybe people just aren't up to speed on anatomy and are working in the wrong way to get where they're trying to go. This really seems to be the case for people trying to get "wider". It's more than your lats that gives you back width, and you won't get it if you ignore the other muscles.
I know this is a controversial statement but the belief that only a pull-up or lat pulldown gives you a wider appearance is really narrow-minded.
Teres and lats are the muscles that come out and create a wider v taper. Most other back muscles are central and create a thicker back. I'm not sure if I'm understanding you. How are muscles like the rhomboids going to make you wider?
@@JoshBenware You answered your own question, it's the teres that people overlook or under-train. It's that muscle that makes the difference in the appearance of a wider back, especially from the front view. I pulled up your profile, you did a great job on your teres, and it shows with a great taper. I doubt that was an accident.
@nickvoelker7180 thank you, but I lacked good lat development in that pick. I had more of a T-taper rather than a V, 😅. I blame it on too many rows and wide grip pullups. Now that I've been doing more neutral narrow grip pullups with a lean away from the bar, my lats are starting to fill in much better that they were in that pic.
@@JoshBenware Haha, I was comparing you to real world people. Neutral close grip is my primary vertical pull, it does the job quite well. I've been working the last year to widen my lats out too. I've been more strength focused previously, so, lots of heavy rows. Lats were there, but lacking that flare and under developed teres from 30yrs of ignoring them.
100%
I can’t totally agree. If you suck at pull-ups, that’s a good indicator to work on pull-ups. If pull-ups are a struggle bus, you should attack that
Considering vertical pressing is equally limited it's no wonder it's similar with vertical pulling.
That's why i call this channel Goat lifting channel.
Alpha destiny, massive iron ❤
Love from India
Thanks man
I used versas a lot this winter. I was surprised to find my raw grip strength was as good or better than its ever been
I enjoy, and feel like I get more out of, various row movements vs. pull-ups. I haven't done them in quite a while. Nothing wrong, just not where I spend my time.
I just follow the biggest bang for the buck
I do think pullups are eventually a must. Eventually, you rep out the full stack at the lat pulldown station, and you have to find something more to continue progressing. I think the pulldown full stack in my gym is ~250 lbs and my combined body weight neutral grip pullup 1RM is 275 lbs. I can absolutely get a TON out of doing lat pulldowns with "only" a 250# stack, probably for several more years. But what happens when I'm at a 3 plate weighted pullup? 4 plates? There are a ton of variations to make pullups harder but if you like the basics (grip width / amount of supination) you just gotta add more weight.
TLDR just do both as your vertical pulls. Strive to get better at chinups / pullups along the way, they're challenging but oh so rewarding 💪
If you're out of three play weighted pull-up man you're a natural Beast because the rest of your lifts are going to be equal to that. At that point it's about how much punishment you want to put on the body to get 1% gains
@@MassiveIron I'm not sure if I can get to a 3 plate chinup this year, but it's certainly a mid term goal for me (probably laser-targeted for late next year). I'm learning to use all of the tools at my disposal to work toward those goals. I'd be flat out elated if I hit a 300 lb combined body weight pullup this year. I think that's totally achievable with a dedicated bulk and working my back as hard as I know how.
Luckily all of that lifting volume is so flexible in loading that I can do almost everything from lat pulldowns to higher rep bodyweight pullups, to 'crazy' weighted pullups and it's all productive in the grand scheme. For what it's worth, hammering my rows helps greatly too. 💪
I only like pull-ups in the 3-5 rep range, I love pull-ups but trying to do higher reps gets me no progress while 3 reps has me constantly getting stronger
This was a very good video. I love training my back, it can take a lot vs most of the rest of my muscle groups. I do 18 sets/wk, 21 if you include traps. Hamstrings on the other hand…6 sets of those per week and I can barely walk. 😂
Thanks man I appreciate you watching
I hate pull-ups, but do five sets every week. With a bad genetics for lats - meaning poor insertions - they only grew significantly after I started doing pull-ups…
Yeah man no doubt I wish I would have done more pull-ups in my first 10 years. I have long arms and pull-ups kind of suck for me but looking back that's one of the things I wish I would have done more of
It's also quite limiting to think that only vertical pulling can hit the lats. Depending on the type of grip you use, you can easily hit the lats on a cable row/chest supported row/ row machine.
It also lacks nuance to say you must hit a 50/50 split between back thickness and width focused training. That split should be adjusted based on the person's goals and weaknesses. Perhaps thickness isn't a problem, but width is lagging. Adjust accordingly. Or perhaps you just straight up want a thicker back (as i do), adjust accordingly.
Exactly there are so many arbitrary rules based on nonsense. I'm all for exercise diversity but making these types of rules don't really help anyone
Fully agree here, as always
Surely genetics plays a big role in getting an ideal back, but....
I believe mid and low rows, and verticals pulls to mid and low sections of the back are not utilized enough by many while nearly everyone is upper trap dominant in the rows and pulls, even rear delt flys without realizing.
I concentrated in the low and mid sections in both rows and pulls and the thing just keeps on growing.
....and 👍cognitiveiy building vid
Weighted pull ups and RDLs/Goodmornings for volume have easily built 90% of my back 🔥
it's pretty new to me that Goodmorning actually work the entire back like RDL's , i always thought because the weight is not pulling against the Traps it only works the Lowerback (and posterior chain ofc)
@@Abdo.R.Mohamed SSB Goodmornings in particular have put more mass on my upper back than any rear delt flye. It's insane.
@@barbellbryce SSB is my new Love in the Gym (even tho the one we have in the gym is fully metal there no cushions ☠️💀) , but Good morning and Bulgarian Split Squat has ALWAYS felt so awkward and uncomfortable untill i tried the SSB ..
Even swapped out Back Squat completely for SSB Squat (as i never been a good squatter and SSB felt natural intently) ..
But ye good to know actually , i always thought ye RDL work the traps somewhat because the weight stretch but Goodmorning is only a posterior chain movment but ye good to know
Vertical pulls are INCREDIBLY effective. Like how on earth did my back balloon up so fast? 2/3 of my back volume was just pullups last year. Weighted, body weight, didn't matter. I literally recomped +3" on my chest measurement last year (I stayed at basically the same body weight...the entire year).
If you love RDLs, I'd give a 'yates' style row a try. I do mine double overhand with straps. Strict torso around 45 degrees. I set it up just like a RDL, eccentric to bar at the knees (or wherever you feel is a good starting position). It feels like an amazing compliment to a deadlift or RDL, especially if you have the posterior strength to stay locked in. If you let your scaps really protract during the eccentric and really stretch, it feels amazing on both the traps and rhomboids.
I used to fall for the 50/50 vertical and horizontal ratio, realized my back was getting wider but not thicker.
What do you do now? Ratio wise?
@@liamjohnson7887 closer to 65/35
Great tips and way of explaining how to build a big back Steve.
Thank you
I Love the deadlift, but it is an exercise that has the potential to eat up a lot of training time due to the number of warm up sets needed after one has built a fair amount of strength. This is the first time in years where I have not programmed the deadlift and instead focused more on pendlay rows, dead rows, and rdls instead. While I do miss the doing deadlifts weekly, my posterior A workout time is reduced by around 10min.
You prolly just need to be in better shape to recover faster , prolly doing too much volume or intensity
Yeah that's one of the reasons I've always pushed 20 to 25 reps tops per week, and really you can get away with doing only two sets per week if you wanted to just to save about energy for other things
Thanks boss!
Thanks for watching
💪💪
Awesome 🔥
Thanks 🔥