Finally someone that i learned something from.. thx for straight to the point ,informative. Finished up ford 390 tonight. Turn key purfect . Appreate the knoladge. Thx
One shaft on my 390 was put on upside down and the bolts were in the wrong place. Not all shafts have notches, one of mine didn't. So I had to look where the holes were. When I corrected all that and put a restrictor in the oil galley on each head my oil consumption went way down. The two longer skinny bolts go in where the head has been counter bored. On the right cylinder head it is the third one back, on the left side, it is the second one back counting from the front of the engine. Definitely rotate crank 45 degrees or about 2 inches on the harmonic balancer so that none of the valves are fully open. Tighten each bolt two turns at a time until they are at 40-45 ft. lbs
I put my engine at tdc/0, to change the manifold gaskets . And have the distributor out so shouldn’t rotate the engine at all yet ? If so , when , how would ya know? Thx!
@@Sunevel Use a lot of sealer at the corners where gaskets meet up, also around the water jackets are. Do it on both sides of the gasket for the water jackets. This is extremely important if you have any kind of pitting or corrosion damage. Also with an aluminum intake if you're using one the torque spec. I think is lower. Set the manifold down get help with the cast iron one so the back gasket doesn't slide out. Plus the damn thing is heavy! Leave the bolts finger tight and drop the distributor in. U can move the manifold a hair if you need to so it goes right in. Torque your intake down in the correct order. Now you can rotate the crank a little so there will be less stress when you put the bolts back in for the rocker shafts.
The head is counter-bored where that bolt goes. On passenger side it is the third hole back if you count front to back. On driver's side it is the second one back.
I just removed my rocker rails and intake on me FE390 - 65 Thunderbird, 3 push rods were bent a lot and it burned oil. I plan to rebuild the heads and buy new push rods. Can you recommend a good manufacturer that sells these?
what would the symptoms be if the wrong bolt was put in? low oil pressure, valve clatter? Also how much lift can I go on a new cam without having to change the push rods or shim? what is shimming? thanks for the videos. Especially love the carburetor jetting and manifold vacuum vs ported videos!
Cody & Brooke Hanson - first notice that the oil passage bolt threading is farther in the head away from the SHAFT mount surface. Short bolt barely grabs the threads and if it might torque to spec its durability is questionable. The smaller dia shank on the bolt was to ensure more than adequate oil flow even when passages started to get "gunked up" with 1950s oil blends. Almost all performance builds drill and tap that oil passage in the head for a restrictor = often Holly carb jets are used. The reason for the addition of oil deflector plates under the shaft mounting stands was Ford learned from the 272-312 & MEL Y blocks that too much oil was accumulating around the valve stems and being drawn either into the combustion cycle or scavenged by the exhaust pulses. The last Y blocks had an actual oil drain tube added to the end shaft mounting stand to reduce the amount of oil that was forced out the rocker to shaft clearance space. New push rods are not required unless you alter the cam base circle (custom re-ground that gains lift by reducing the base) or to go with solid shell lifters. Shells are very light weight in comparison to hyd lifters. Of course solid lifters require the adjustable rocker arms OR adjustable push rods for clearance. 95% of all "street cams would not require new push rods. Extreme -- well your spending big bucks so buy better material - stronger push rods to deal with increased valve spring pressures. -- Your "shimming" is usually shimming the valve spring to obtain the correct installation height. Correct height ensures equal pressure (resistance to movement) on all the valves. Even IF you had a major head planning done to correct warpage of the block mating surface, it would be very unlikely that you could use a head with so much removed that the hyd lifter would not accept the change.
all my bolts are identical in thickness but there's one longer one. i don't want to put the wrong bolt in the wrong place how do i go about figuring this out?
Hello greetings from Germany. I have a question, maybe you could tell me something about it. I have a 63 galaxy with 390 FE When the engine is really warm after 20 minutes of driving. Does he make loud noises. When cold it is quiet. Have made two very short videos about it. Once where you hear the noise and after removing the valve cover. Now I noticed on the right side of the engine that there is a lot of play when I press on the rocker arm. What do you think? Is this a characteristic of bad hydraulic tappets. Because this should not be so easy to press. Here are the two videos. Thank you very much.
I just put an intake gasket on, I am having a hard time getting my passenger rocker rail to set properly. the drivers side went in perfect, but the other the pushrods seem uneven. any advice you have will be appreciated, thank you
+ChapmanPaving, If they are uneven you probably have a pushrod or two out of the lifter cups. Also make sure you use the splash shield on both sides. Leaving the shields out increases pushrod preload too far.
According to the '62 Ford Thunderbird Shop Manual, the 390 crankshaft damper "must be" rotated 45 degrees past TDC (identified by "XX" on the damper) when both REMOVING and INSTALLING the rocker arm assembly "to avoid damage to the valve mechanism", I take this to mean that if this procedure is not followed, there could be damage to the push rods [e.g., bent push rod(s)] and/or the hollow rocker arm shaft (e.g., bent shaft). So Ford said this "procedure must be followed", but is this just being overly cautious?
Some Windsor Ford engines used rail rockers -- FE's never used rail rockers - never ever never. "All 289 engines built after 1966 1/2 (except 289/271HP), and all 302 and 351 engines use "rail" rocker arms. Early 289 engines and 289/271HP use conventional rocker arms. The rail rockers are designed to "allign" the rocker and pushrod assembly with the valve. To do this, they have "lips" or edges that extend over the valve stem. Conventional rockers have no such "lips" and rely on either guide plates or "slotted" push rod holes in the head to keep the valve train alligned. "Rail" rockers should be replaced with some form of conventional rocker on performance engines that will see higher rpms."
the fact that it is a shaft system doesn't have a lot to do with the cam, the FE rockers can take any lift they might need shimmed to accommodate higher lifts, but running a stock cam because of them just isn't right.
you have to shim them, and get different push rods. a bunch of different stuff thats fairly spendy. this went in a truck. an rv cam for towing was put in the engine that had the same base circle as the stock cam, so no valvetrain geometry change.
@@theovallas Layla by Derek and the Domino’s featuring Eric Clapton. The song is about how Eric stole George Harrison’s wife Patti, kind of a mythical take on Sir Galahad falling in love and stealing King Arthur’s wife Layla.
IF you do NOT know the proper technical terms then expect to get schooled... EVERY Ford manual calls them shafts so grow up and learn the correct terminology for the parts you are referring to.
+10susan10 well, they are called rail rockers. Of course the rod is referred to as a shaft. Really who cares. I'm no idiot, check my channel, I do engine build walkthroughs and I build engines for people for f sake.
rail rockers are used on some engines that do NOT use shaft mounted rockers to locate and stop the rocker from twisting side to side and hence OFF the valve stem. The "rail rocker" valve stem end of the rocker arm is a downward facing U shape hence the rails on each side of the actual valve actuation area of the rocker arm. You further prove your lack of ability to refer to the parts by their correct nomenclature. A rail rocker could not be used in this application as the rail edges would press on the valve spring retainer possibly dislodging the valve spring retainer locks. One look at the difference between the valve stem height above the retainer of a FE vs 260-289-302-351 shows the obvious differences in design. BTW my first FE build was a 427HR in 1968 when I switched from MaxWedge MoPar 413-426.. I NEVER built a 2bbl FE -- 2-4s six packs & 1-4bbl., I still own my 69 428 CJ 4spd fb stang that I bought in June 1969.. If you are unable to learn the correct nomenclature for the components that you are describing then just call it a "thinga me gigit" as that would be just as close the the correct nomenclature as what you are now using.
Finally someone that i learned something from.. thx for straight to the point ,informative. Finished up ford 390 tonight. Turn key purfect
. Appreate the knoladge. Thx
One shaft on my 390 was put on upside down and the bolts were in the wrong place. Not all shafts have notches, one of mine didn't. So I had to look where the holes were. When I corrected all that and put a restrictor in the oil galley on each head my oil consumption went way down. The two longer skinny bolts go in where the head has been counter bored. On the right cylinder head it is the third one back, on the left side, it is the second one back counting from the front of the engine. Definitely rotate crank 45 degrees or about 2 inches on the harmonic balancer so that none of the valves are fully open. Tighten each bolt two turns at a time until they are at 40-45 ft. lbs
I put my engine at tdc/0, to change the manifold gaskets . And have the distributor out so shouldn’t rotate the engine at all yet ? If so , when , how would ya know? Thx!
@@Sunevel Use a lot of sealer at the corners where gaskets meet up, also around the water jackets are. Do it on both sides of the gasket for the water jackets. This is extremely important if you have any kind of pitting or corrosion damage. Also with an aluminum intake if you're using one the torque spec. I think is lower. Set the manifold down get help with the cast iron one so the back gasket doesn't slide out. Plus the damn thing is heavy! Leave the bolts finger tight and drop the distributor in. U can move the manifold a hair if you need to so it goes right in. Torque your intake down in the correct order. Now you can rotate the crank a little so there will be less stress when you put the bolts back in for the rocker shafts.
Remember though, if your rail rocker are bolted on too tight (torque), you will not get any compression readings and you don't want to lose either.
@@asther113 The rocker arms are not bolted on to anything. They slide onto a rocker shaft which is bolted to the cylinder head by rocker pedestals.
Thanks to this video I found the machine shop that rebuilt my engine put the tin plate for oil return in backwards
I love the vids. I gotta say, you are stronger willed than I am. I couldn't have resisted the temptation of a 4 barrel intake and carb🍻
Great video!!! I just watched and heading out to garage to put my intake on right now!!! Thx.
Same here !
perfect video. no extra BS. Thanks
You are welcome sir!
Thanks for showing all of this. Just one question, if there is only one skinny bolt per side could you have shown us exactly what one.
The head is counter-bored where that bolt goes. On passenger side it is the third hole back if you count front to back. On driver's side it is the second one back.
So .. hydroelectric … I thought that’s what I did wrong. Nice video
Been wrenching on FE’s for 50 years never heard of the rocker shafts being called rails before ? Maybe east coast thing ?
Frosted Flakes! There GREAT !!
How is your performance with the 2 barrel? If you add bigger cams and such do you need a 4 barrel? I am building a 390
Any specific way to take them off heard engine has to be 45° before or after tdc or does it matter
Great stuff
Hey bud was wondering i hve the same eng8ne . Did you have to adjust the valves at all or just thst shaft spec ??.thx again
I just removed my rocker rails and intake on me FE390 - 65 Thunderbird, 3 push rods were bent a lot and it burned oil. I plan to rebuild the heads and buy new push rods. Can you recommend a good manufacturer that sells these?
Hey I have an odd question for you what size of Bolt do you use when installing a 390 engine on a engine stand
what would the symptoms be if the wrong bolt was put in? low oil pressure, valve clatter? Also how much lift can I go on a new cam without having to change the push rods or shim? what is shimming? thanks for the videos. Especially love the carburetor jetting and manifold vacuum vs ported videos!
Cody & Brooke Hanson - first notice that the oil passage bolt threading is farther in the head away from the SHAFT mount surface. Short bolt barely grabs the threads and if it might torque to spec its durability is questionable. The smaller dia shank on the bolt was to ensure more than adequate oil flow even when passages started to get "gunked up" with 1950s oil blends. Almost all performance builds drill and tap that oil passage in the head for a restrictor = often Holly carb jets are used. The reason for the addition of oil deflector plates under the shaft mounting stands was Ford learned from the 272-312 & MEL Y blocks that too much oil was accumulating around the valve stems and being drawn either into the combustion cycle or scavenged by the exhaust pulses. The last Y blocks had an actual oil drain tube added to the end shaft mounting stand to reduce the amount of oil that was forced out the rocker to shaft clearance space. New push rods are not required unless you alter the cam base circle (custom re-ground that gains lift by reducing the base) or to go with solid shell lifters. Shells are very light weight in comparison to hyd lifters. Of course solid lifters require the adjustable rocker arms OR adjustable push rods for clearance. 95% of all "street cams would not require new push rods. Extreme -- well your spending big bucks so buy better material - stronger push rods to deal with increased valve spring pressures. -- Your "shimming" is usually shimming the valve spring to obtain the correct installation height. Correct height ensures equal pressure (resistance to movement) on all the valves. Even IF you had a major head planning done to correct warpage of the block mating surface, it would be very unlikely that you could use a head with so much removed that the hyd lifter would not accept the change.
The necked down bolt is on cylinder. No.3 and 7.
@@jimmyhawkins5357
I read many places
3 &6 . Uh oh. I’ll be Checking again!
@@10susan10 wild amount of info!! Thanks !!
great video thanks....
all my bolts are identical in thickness but there's one longer one. i don't want to put the wrong bolt in the wrong place how do i go about figuring this out?
A 360s and 390s push rods should be the same right? 9.590? Inches
Hello greetings from Germany.
I have a question, maybe you could tell me something about it.
I have a 63 galaxy with 390 FE
When the engine is really warm after 20 minutes of driving. Does he make loud noises. When cold it is quiet. Have made two very short videos about it. Once where you hear the noise and after removing the valve cover. Now I noticed on the right side of the engine that there is a lot of play when I press on the rocker arm. What do you think? Is this a characteristic of bad hydraulic tappets. Because this should not be so easy to press.
Here are the two videos. Thank you very much.
How do I get more oil flow down the rails? I get plenty of oil up to the bolt hole oil gally but the rails don't seem to oil much...
What are the spring washers called on the end of the rockers
Where is the location of the stepped down bolt? Is it 3 and 7?
Where can I find a set of bolts for a 2105 Edelbrock intake with the two bolts for for the oil hole on a fe390
I just put an intake gasket on, I am having a hard time getting my passenger rocker rail to set properly. the drivers side went in perfect, but the other the pushrods seem uneven. any advice you have will be appreciated, thank you
+ChapmanPaving, If they are uneven you probably have a pushrod or two out of the lifter cups. Also make sure you use the splash shield on both sides. Leaving the shields out increases pushrod preload too far.
So there's no preload??
I caught you a delicious bass
Lol dude, lol.
Is this the same for a 1968 FE 360? I'm going to replace the top end gaskets, but it might take a while for my shop manual to get here.
Exactly the same my friend
Thanks bud
Quick question...do these type of rockers require valve lash adjustment?
Did you ever get an answer anywhere ? I had same question.
@@pauliebots they don’t, they’re self adjusting.
@@droughornz6080 thanks
What about preload?
Does the timing have to be set 45 degrees past TDC No.1 cylinder?
ignition timing ???
In my manual, it says to rotate it 45 degrees past TDC on No.1 cylinder. Sorta threw me off.
I was going to ask the same question. Or can we leave the engine TDC and reassemble the rest of the engine.
Rotating it 45 degrees past TDC insures all pistons are down slightly in the bore so there is no chance of a valve contacting the pistons.
According to the '62 Ford Thunderbird Shop Manual, the 390 crankshaft damper "must be" rotated 45 degrees past TDC (identified by "XX" on the damper) when both REMOVING and INSTALLING the rocker arm assembly "to avoid damage to the valve mechanism", I take this to mean that if this procedure is not followed, there could be damage to the push rods [e.g., bent push rod(s)] and/or the hollow rocker arm shaft (e.g., bent shaft). So Ford said this "procedure must be followed", but is this just being overly cautious?
Some Windsor Ford engines used rail rockers -- FE's never used rail rockers - never ever never.
"All 289 engines built after 1966 1/2 (except 289/271HP), and all 302 and 351 engines use "rail" rocker arms. Early 289 engines and 289/271HP use conventional rocker arms. The rail rockers are designed to "allign" the rocker and pushrod assembly with the valve. To do this, they have "lips" or edges that extend over the valve stem. Conventional rockers have no such "lips" and rely on either guide plates or "slotted" push rod holes in the head to keep the valve train alligned. "Rail" rockers should be replaced with some form of conventional rocker on performance engines that will see higher rpms."
What exhaust was ran and what cam?
The stock cam was ran due to the rail rocker set up. I have no idea on the rest. Sold the engine
the fact that it is a shaft system doesn't have a lot to do with the cam, the FE rockers can take any lift they might need shimmed to accommodate higher lifts, but running a stock cam because of them just isn't right.
you have to shim them, and get different push rods. a bunch of different stuff thats fairly spendy. this went in a truck. an rv cam for towing was put in the engine that had the same base circle as the stock cam, so no valvetrain geometry change.
yeah i get what you mean by spendy, i like your vids there pretty informative
ThunderHead289 question what size bolts for the bellhousing to block? Putting one on a stand and not sure what size bolt to buy
Help me out buddy please im having a brain fart whats the name of the intro song lol
Layla by Eric Clapton
@@theovallas Layla by Derek and the Domino’s featuring Eric Clapton. The song is about how Eric stole George Harrison’s wife Patti, kind of a mythical take on Sir Galahad falling in love and stealing King Arthur’s wife Layla.
Its a SHAFT not a rail....
Was that comment really necessary, make you feel important? Lol
IF you do NOT know the proper technical terms then expect to get schooled... EVERY Ford manual calls them shafts so grow up and learn the correct terminology for the parts you are referring to.
+10susan10 well, they are called rail rockers. Of course the rod is referred to as a shaft. Really who cares. I'm no idiot, check my channel, I do engine build walkthroughs and I build engines for people for f sake.
rail rockers are used on some engines that do NOT use shaft mounted rockers to locate and stop the rocker from twisting side to side and hence OFF the valve stem. The "rail rocker" valve stem end of the rocker arm is a downward facing U shape hence the rails on each side of the actual valve actuation area of the rocker arm. You further prove your lack of ability to refer to the parts by their correct nomenclature. A rail rocker could not be used in this application as the rail edges would press on the valve spring retainer possibly dislodging the valve spring retainer locks. One look at the difference between the valve stem height above the retainer of a FE vs 260-289-302-351 shows the obvious differences in design. BTW my first FE build was a 427HR in 1968 when I switched from MaxWedge MoPar 413-426.. I NEVER built a 2bbl FE -- 2-4s six packs & 1-4bbl., I still own my 69 428 CJ 4spd fb stang that I bought in June 1969.. If you are unable to learn the correct nomenclature for the components that you are describing then just call it a "thinga me gigit" as that would be just as close the the correct nomenclature as what you are now using.
oh boy. you know, iv never run across someone like you. congrats for that. how did you even wind up on my video if you know everything