Oh wow it’s another titan video where the premise in the clickbaity title is dismissed completely in the video as soon as the question is asked. Not human noises, the navy said…
@@trickhealey I remember hearing about the noises and appreciated a thorough explanation of the search process, handing information off for analysis and erroneous media reports. I can’t speak for them in general, but I appreciate the titling of this video and am happy that is satisfied my curiosity in regards to the reported sounds at consistent intervals; I’ve been curious. As he did reveal the truth, I am confused about your claim.
At least you can recover a body that looks somewhat human at Niagara Falls. As opposed to some organic goo, mixed with carbon fiber, and plastic fragment, in the Ocean Gate case. Plus that goo is a mix of all 5 occupants.
@@koalanectar9382 They were definitely not well informed of the risks. That's part of what this whole trial has been about. Stockton lied to them and they were massively under informed.
Quite true they have all been a few cards short of a Deck. Niagara falls draws in the lunatics. You have a 1 out of 4 chance of making it irregardless of preparation. It either spits you back out or it takes you. Feel bad for the kid that got shamed into going.
When the media first reported "noises/banging" and kept chirping the 96 hours of remaining air line over and over again, I remember noting to myself it sounded like deja vu. ARA San Juan went missing in 2017. I was as sure as anyone could be that they were dead before those reports began. When they did, all but confirmed it for me. The ocean is not kind, or gentle. It will kill you on a whim on a nice day, let alone fucking around 2 miles underwater in a home made death trap.
I mean the pressure at those depths will kill anyone instantaneously if something goes wrong. It was pretty much a certainty that they had all perished. The media making up stories though about the knocking bothered me for that reason.
Are you in fishing or crabbing? My husband's family come from Maine and a longline of fishermen. I'm from Florida and have a VERY healthy respect and fear of the ocean(lakes and rivers as well). Humans in the ocean need to realize we are just humble visitors and all it takes is a rogue wave to wipe you off the face of the Earth possibly to be found. My Mother was a emergency dispatcher and radio controller for Florida Fish and Game when it was FMP. The sheer amount of completely stupid, reckless, total utter disregard for the safety of themselves and frequently passengers onboard their vessels would make my skin crawl. 95% of these ppl either never were found or found dead much later. Plus the put the lives of the rescue crews both local, state and Coast Guard in danger.
oh, my lord. I think you just said what all of us were really thinking - I would also add the "first responder" language and big words such as "assets" "checklist" "computer models and search patterns" "so they are" "and uh" and of course "well they didn't " were very comforting statements. and don't even get me started on the very slight raspy tone of his vocal communication! man, he's got it ALL! give this man a raise!
It's a shame that other people died in the submersible, so Stockton Rush can't even be nominated for a Darwin Award. I swear, stupidity like this needs to be remembered.
exactly Sometimes breaking the rules and being the rebel can lead to innovation, and it might work out. But you don’t play with other people’s lives. If you want to take risks, do it on your own-don’t involve others and falsely assure them it's safe.... I feel terrible for that one kid who was afraid to go but just wanted to make his dad happy. He knew in his gut something was wrong, and now he’s gone.
yeah i feel if he was taking solo dives his legacy might be MUCH different. Like "Brave, innovative man dies piloting homemade sub with a game controller"
@@tankerd1847Can you clarify? If that was the case, why wasn't the destruction announced then and there? Did the Navy not tell the coastguard what they heard? Or did they tell the coastguard, but neither body wanted to publicly acknowledge their listening capacity? Or did they simply have to make absolutely certain that the noise they heard was the sub imploding, not just a chance correlation?
@@PonderingStudentThis gentleman from @wgowshipping explained why a year ago: It's not that the Navy "knew", they were requested by Coast Guard to check the log files from around the time the vessel went missing. That search takes time, it could be reams of printed paper or whatever media this data is saved on (this systems date back from the cold war times). That's why it took several days for them to come back and say: "yes, we found something in our data, consistent with a bang around that area". Also, implosion of that small vessel in the vastness of the ocean probably will not be captured as a loud bang (even if it was a nuclear submarine it would have been difficult to listen). You might want to check that YT channel out, interesting and zero sensationalistic info there (he's invited/called by TV networks to share insights about sea related news) . All the best.
Oh they would have heard it for sure. But, they have their own operational procedures a lot of which is based on not sending signals that could be nefariously intercepted by adversaries. That’s a WHOLE DIFFERENT game of hide and seek! But yes, they knew based on their detection systems that ‘something’ from that precise location had all the earmarkings of a catastrophic implosion, but need visual conformation to verify it.
The fact he mentioned they did not know a fraction of what had been explained tells a lot about how Rush's mentality, to have a majority of people he could entirely control and lie to ; I could think of a scenario of a mix of gullible, easily impressed, interested (if they were lied to about the money they would make), not experienced people that could still protect Rush and this project at this time and omit details to the USCG during a rescue mission. And you clearly see it in the hearings ; anyone taking their side is either ignorant, arrogant, stupid or the three at the same time. This whole thing was a screaming red flag under any point of view.
That isn't what he's talking about, though. Most of the information that's come out in the inquiry would've been completely irrelevant to the SAR mission. Even if they'd known that there way, say, an 80% chance that the vessel had been lost, they would've continued SAR operations until they were _certain._ The fact that one of the guys aboard was an arrogant prick who thought he could out-brazen engineering was beside the point.
@@Werrf1 Okay - my bad, even after all these years speaking english I sometimes slip on translation. I thought he was meaning that there were information being withheld that could have clarified/helped at any point in the situation from the crew. And all this being said, it's true I've seen people saying that they could have stopped the search on the first day, but I also understand that they searched until they saw the tail cone on the ocean floor.
It takes a special kind of person to be successful enough to afford this trip, and yet be dumb enough to go on it. Actually mind blowing.. I guess they thought Mr Rush was the aquatic version of Elon Musk.. let that sink in? - I mean no disrespect to the lives lost, it was his negligence, but they also should have known.
Will never stop declaring that multi millionaires/billionaires playing and adventuring must be held liable for their own rescues and/or RECOVERIES. Nations need to pass laws that adventuring millionaires/billionaires must put up sufficient ESCROW to cover taxpayers’ intervention into all of their rescues/recoveries. PERIOD!!
Fantastic point. It would kill an already expensive industry but I would really like to know the total cost of the Titan recovery operation. Certainly in the tens of millions of dollars range.
@@Gravitys-NOT-a-force and each time the glue and carbon fiber got weaker and weaker. Everyone knew this will happen. It was just a matter of when will it happen...
@@fffffffflei6589 , you're suggesting that Stockton Rush was suicidal? You've a lot of experience with wrapped carbon fiber under extreme, multi-axial, cyclic loading?
As soon as Canada said they heard noises at regular intervals I was skeptical. I think they got caught up in the hype and didn't take time to analyze it properly. Unless someone is tapping out SOS I'd take everything with a grain of salt. There are a lot of noises in the ocean, especially when there are a half dozen or so ships in the area.
As a former USN submarine Sonar Operator I knew as soon as it went down what happened and where it was. Even people that have just read about submarine war or accidents would know. The break up sounds are unmistakable if you ever heard a recording of an accident. Was wondering at the time what they were doing for hours
Yeah, from my understanding a corporation offers a layer of protection to the owner as an individual. However, in some cases, the owners can be held personally liable.
As far a the coast guard part goes, the coast guard does not charge no matter the cicumstance or the status, rich or poor, of those involved. It is all figured into the annual opperations budget.
Any Engineer knows that carbon fiber is strong in tension, not compression, like a rope that doesn't do anything if you push the ends together. Deep sea hydrostatic pressure is compression. This was a total mis-application of engineering principles by a marketing fandango and/or questionable engineering expertise or even common sense. Look at any ASME pressure vessel used in vacuum. They have ribs on the outside to prevent compressive failure. No such thing on OceanGate.
Not just that. If you bond two materials that expand and contract at different levels under pressure, like titanium and carbon fiber, connected by glue, and then alternate the pressure between 1atm and 400atm repeatedly, it will fail. The only question is when. I know this and I am not an engineer.
So what are you suggesting? That stockton and also the other passengers, including a highly experienced sub expert, didn't know any of that? Nobody jumps all over nasa for their insanely negligent fire during the apollo testing that killed three astronauts, yet that was a highly regulated endeavor. So many armchair engineers trying to dogpile this thing.
I just feel in the last few years we really hyped carbon fibers up, and there is potential there but in actuality I have experienced more failures than sicuccesses, and whwn things failed, they failed somewhat unlike people predicted. It's like, something that is like very strokg rope, is not going to behave like steel. The vibe of it reminds me about when I learned in school about wankel engines that at some point had everyone convinced future cars will only have those, if only we ever figure out how to deal with heat distribution and oiling them without having to take the thing apart on every other oil change. We just kept waiting for the day when that will finally happen and now we are not even talking about them anymore. Will we ever figure out that we can not replsce eveeything steel with carbon fibre?
Much appreciation to the USCG and all the unified command to make sure that the correct resolution to this incident was verified. They had to conduct the surface search in case the sub surfaced and simultaneously the underwater search far below normal ROV depths. Stockton and his company should have had an ROV go down with his submersible to monitor and assist if something went wrong. James Cameron speaks of entanglement for example. This should be standard practice for deep submersibles.
In addition to the loss of life and the suffering of the families of the deceased, imagine the sheer cost of the search and rescue efforts. All the result of Rush's ego.
Oceangate had no rescue plan?! I've followed this story closely from day one, and I have lost count of the number of times I've thought "This is it, this is the limit of their stupidity" only to be proved rapidly wrong.
The knocking sound was the sound of Stockton being thrown under the bus so hard by Oceangate in the future that the sound revereberated back through time as the Bus ran him over and backed over him a few times.
They hadn't done a submarine recovery operation in forever, regardless of the realistic outcome it was an opportunity to test the systems and procedures. It was good practise. Too expensive to do without a reason but given a reason it was good to do. Next time someone might still be alive, submarines have become stuck before.
Wait, people don’t have to file a plan with the coastguard before going down in a submersible? He didn’t even know if such a protocol was in place? Aircraft are way safer and more common and they need to file flight plans, how do we not have something so basic in place? Especially with experimental crafts.
This vessel was never approved by any American standard or organisation, that's why they went out on the Atlantic and launched the Titan there. Stockton knew exactly what he was doing, he was playing with people's lives. All deep sea diving vessels are sphere shaped, and at school we all learned why that shape is the best option. Stockton made an empty beer can from two different materials and was lucky to get away with it several times before it finally imploded and ended up on the bottom of the ocean. I don't feel sorry for Stockton or OceanGate at all, they all knew what was coming their way. Can't post links here, but watch Scott Manley's video about it, very sobering ...
@@bertholdbouman3007 Also said materials were not up to grade quality wise (he bought scrap materials at discount) or even known for not withstanding extreme water pressure (carbon fibre will crack with repeated exposure to pressure). Hence the "popping" noises in the hull people would hear. Stockton paid the price for his arrogance. I just wish it wasn't at the expense of 4 innocent lives that he took with him.
its crazy how they knew wasn't a rescue why tell the world rescue mission 30 hrs of air left or whatever it was like a timed rescue giving fake hope. Very weird
They were searching for the sub on the surface. It's constructed in such a way that you cannot exit it from the inside (it's bolted from the outside). So the 30 hours is meaningful.
I thought the same until a coast guard said although they knew Navy had heard possible implosion, they work on 100% confirmed information not assumptions. If they did not treat it like they did and told the world the Navy heard a noise that implied implosion had happened and they would wait until a submersible arrived on Thursday to confirm, people would be outraged and on that chance they died floating on the surface waiting for rescue, could you imagine what rage would ensue because they didn’t do all of it? Hindsight is 20/20 but if it was my loved one I would hope they would do everything possible if only slim chance.
I recently saw another interview with the USCG mustached man where he was pressed on this issue and his (paraphrased) response was “in the business of search and rescue, in the absence of definitive evidence, we have a moral and statutory responsibility to continue searching.” Plus the Navy info was classified at the time so the USCG couldn’t publicly admit that info although it had been circulated via anonymous channels.
Bet the Captain’s officer review board was tougher. One must applaud the Captain’s professionalism … notifying the next of kin has to be the emotionally hardest part of the job. Take note, the Captain sad that most SAR operations start as a muddle. If those lost in the woods knew where they were they wouldn’t need to be found, rescued yes, but not found.
Seems like a gigantic waste of time and money for all of these hearings. This all falls at the feet of 1 man and his wife. She is just as responsible imo.
Tbf it’s not just to find out guilt. The govt benefits from doing investigations to determine where they can prevent future events (e.g. what regulations, safety procedures).
If you listen to the noise, it sounds quite the same as the sound of the implosion (the second one), especially the last one of the 4 bangs, of course the sound of the implosion is louder but sounds quite the same.
*Before the implosion Everybody: That thing is going to implode ! *After the implosion Everybody: We don't know what happened but we're sure we heard them making banging noises ? *Reality: They were instantly vaporized, and we already knew that would be the result.
What about the telltale sound of an implosion heard by the US and British navies? Why did the nonsense about banging sounds even get released to the press? Ridiculous. We had several days of people running around speculating about underwater noises, depleting oxygen and huge search areas but when they (eventually) searched in the last known location…hey presto! There it was on the sea floor directly below.
@@Leewise1 I’m talking much less about the media and more about what the coastguard was saying at the time. They kept the media speculating with the nonsense about banging noises and large search areas instead of sticking to what they knew and nothing more.
@crabbit101 Again, the media takes whatever they think they can make a story, and what will make money. The coastguard, essentially, does what they're told and says what they're told to say.
Is there public information available about why it took so long to look for the sub in the most likely place it was? The most likely situation by far was that the sub was destroyed very near to the time communication was lost.
It’s effectively an internal oversight committee. Someone in the USCG not related to the rescue was assigned to build a report, so that includes talking to USCG personnel who were involved in the rescue who are still doing their day to day jobs.
Nothing mysterious about the sound of carbon fibre delaminating whilst under immense pressure…. Given the construction of the vehicle and the pressure it was at, it was a foregone conclusion that the occupants were gone. The ‘rescue’ display was a sham and a waste of money.
He did say-when asked if Ocean gate gave him enough info- that he didn't have a fraction of the information revealed at the inquiry-basically that the Titan was a death trap that consistently had failures of every sort.I guess he thought it was a search for a safe sub like the certified subs which would have had a chance. But he should have been aware of what the certified sub owners do-"15 minutes of losing comms-emergency mode.30 minutes-locate and recover" Oceangate didn't bother contacting for 8 hours. And-"Lost comms lost tracking ? Lost sub."-another quote from certified sub owners/experts.
Lol😂. It is search and rescue. That isn't a consideration. It is like the fire department. They save people, put out the fire and THEN let others determine a cause.
Its a rescue mission unless theres clear evidence of an implosion. They had to find the evidence first. Even if you were to be swept out to sea they would call it a rescue mission for at least 24-36 hours before theyd consider it a 'recovery' mission
Anyone that has ever done a SUBSAFE audit on submersibles knows this thing would never have passed. Why couldn’t he have just gotten the damn thing SUBSAFE certified? All that ego. Ego get’s more people killed than anything else I can think of.
It cost money, and he was already underwater on the company. He had $100M from investors and planned to get about $1M per tour with full passenger load; he would have to have had 100 dives just to break even, which wasn't going to happen. Lots of effort was put into ducking standards to save money, while the worldwide sub community told them repeatedly it was a bad idea. One joker on this site said it was like Rush had heard the word "substandard" and misunderstood it.
I've done Subsafe-style work, on a US Navy submarine, related to the 4500psi nitrogen system on a Trident (Ohio) class. It requires a mindset that Stockton Rush wouldn't have supported.
I was certified as a SUBSAFE QAI and served on two boats including a Thresher/Permit class boat. It still horrifies me his total lack of concern of safety.
These interviews and the whole investigation are fascinating, of course, but we aren't getting a true read on when the USN/USCG knew the Titan submersible imploded......which I'm sure was due to the secrecy of our acoustic sensing systems. Im guessing they knew when it happened but kept that confidential.
I kind of think it’s like when the police or detectives find a body. The community will know there was a girl with a pink shirt that has been missing for weeks. And then the police find a body of a girl with a pink shirt on. But they don’t say anything right away or if they do, they don’t say much because they need to confirm who it is. That’s what I think with the they probably knew that it imploded but they wanted to make sure they could find it first or really confirm it. That’s just my thoughts.
Agreed. We should still keep exploring the deep ocean. There were rules in place *before* ocean gate that they negligently decided to break and it shouldn’t tarnish the premise completely. It’s like Chernobyl that was designed to fail tainting nuclear energy which is totally safe.
Some popping and creaking would be normal. The titan sub had a loud crack on an earlier dive which also showed a change on the strain sensors. The hull should have been retired at that point. They talked about safety systems and then decided to ignore those safety systems when they showed things going bad.
Yes, I did watch the video on those strain sensors and if they would’ve paid attention to that, I think they would probably be alive today. Because I’m no kind of scientist but the way that the gentleman explained it was pretty elementary just gotta look at the data! and I really do think OSHA should’ve looked into that whistleblowers information a little closer!! because if they did, I think that would also mean all of those people would still be alive today. thank you very much for your reply, sir or ma’am.
@@waltmann66 Like someone else said, everything just keeps getting dumber and dumber. There’s just so many points where it was wrong and should have been stopped then reevaluated. But, that’s hard when they fire anybody slowing down the progress.
Great to discus this....missing the point...Why is the US Government spending even a penny on these investigations? Coast Guard, NationalTransportationSB, OSHA, Congress. 370 miles of the coast of Newfoundland. Not US jurisdiction. Private enterprise with volunteer daredevils, not domestic workers. - Simple: substandard (marketing) or incompetent engineering led to failure. End of Story. - Investigations are attempts to expand the scope of these departments for future funding? - Ocean Gate and the estate of the CEO Stockton Rush should be charged for every penny spent.
Because the US government has an interest in learning what worked and what didn’t. Because the various orgs can then improve their processes. Because next time it might not be a an idiot doing idiotic things.
Sorry if I may, but I have 5 questions: don't you want the word 'truth' to be used because: 1) Do you believe that objective truth doesn't exist because you're a staunch relativist? 2) Do you believe that objective truth exists but is not accessible through this particular channel? 3) Do you know the objective truth yourself and know that this channel doesn't? 4) Do you believe that the word 'truth' is a trap to attract views from people who are easily impressed and lack critical thinking? 5) Does the sound of the word 'truth' bother you?
Is it just me or does it seem like the lady asking the questions is just getting familiar with the basics of search and rescue mission. Seems rediculous!!
This is how inquest hearings work. That “lady asking the questions” is a member of the Coast Guard, specifically the the Coast Guard Marine Board of Investigations. Don’t criticize her just because you are ignorant to what an inquest hearing is. I assure you she knows more about search and rescue missions than you ever will, and I guarantee she is more brave and has done more to serve her country than you ever could. Have some respect.
To understand Leviathan, watch this video. The bureaucracy is using this incident as juatification for staffing up, and adding ever more pages to its rulebook. Note the CFR already has a million pages... but we clearly need more because otherwise someone might do the wrong thing.
Why does a private enterprise endeavor of volunteer daredevils headed for 400 miles off the coast of Newfoundland need to be "certified" by any US government interest other than Lloyds of London?
Same reason US citizens are required to pay tax on income earnt outside the US, even if income tax has already been paid on it: the US claims jurisdiction over all US citizens regardless of location.
Same reason US citizens are required to pay tax on income earnt outside the US, even if income tax has already been paid on it: the US claims jurisdiction over all US citizens regardless of location.
They don't, and they weren't, unless you engage in commercial activity over certain thresholds. That is why their customers were classed as "mission specialists". That said, your business will suffer if you aren't certified. Certification is a statement of competency and testing that informs a consumer that a business is operating within the relm of best practices and safety. Oceangate was less than forthcoming to their customers about the deficiencies of their submersible, deficiencies that likely would have been exposed during a certification process.
I don't really understand the seething hatred for stockton in these comments. This is all a love letter to regulatory agencies, which don't have a particularly good track record either.
FYI: start at 2:40 for the question about the noises
Oh wow it’s another titan video where the premise in the clickbaity title is dismissed completely in the video as soon as the question is asked. Not human noises, the navy said…
Thanks
@@trickhealey I remember hearing about the noises and appreciated a thorough explanation of the search process, handing information off for analysis and erroneous media reports. I can’t speak for them in general, but I appreciate the titling of this video and am happy that is satisfied my curiosity in regards to the reported sounds at consistent intervals; I’ve been curious. As he did reveal the truth, I am confused about your claim.
A true hero.
3:30 for the answer to the "noises".
Stockton was just like the guy who wanted to go down the Niagara Falls in a wooden barrel... Atleast the dude in the barrel was alone...
A barrel over the Falls is way safer than going down 3800m in that contraption..
At least you can recover a body that looks somewhat human at Niagara Falls. As opposed to some organic goo, mixed with carbon fiber, and plastic fragment, in the Ocean Gate case. Plus that goo is a mix of all 5 occupants.
To be fair, he did not force any of the other occupants to go on this highly risky journey, and they were also relatively well informed of the risks.
@@koalanectar9382 They were definitely not well informed of the risks. That's part of what this whole trial has been about. Stockton lied to them and they were massively under informed.
Quite true they have all been a few cards short of a Deck. Niagara falls draws in the lunatics.
You have a 1 out of 4 chance of making it irregardless of preparation.
It either spits you back out or it takes you. Feel bad for the kid that got shamed into going.
When the media first reported "noises/banging" and kept chirping the 96 hours of remaining air line over and over again, I remember noting to myself it sounded like deja vu. ARA San Juan went missing in 2017. I was as sure as anyone could be that they were dead before those reports began. When they did, all but confirmed it for me.
The ocean is not kind, or gentle. It will kill you on a whim on a nice day, let alone fucking around 2 miles underwater in a home made death trap.
They said that was 1 week of air in ara san juan.
I mean the pressure at those depths will kill anyone instantaneously if something goes wrong. It was pretty much a certainty that they had all perished. The media making up stories though about the knocking bothered me for that reason.
That first report was on TikTok. And it was confirmed fake soon after being posted.
Are you in fishing or crabbing?
My husband's family come from Maine and a longline of fishermen.
I'm from Florida and have a VERY healthy respect and fear of the ocean(lakes and rivers as well).
Humans in the ocean need to realize we are just humble visitors and all it takes is a rogue wave to wipe you off the face of the Earth possibly to be found.
My Mother was a emergency dispatcher and radio controller for Florida Fish and Game when it was FMP.
The sheer amount of completely stupid, reckless, total utter disregard for the safety of themselves and frequently passengers onboard their vessels would make my skin crawl. 95% of these ppl either never were found or found dead much later.
Plus the put the lives of the rescue crews both local, state and Coast Guard in danger.
@@mish375 I think the Canadian Coast Guard is partially to blame. They got caught up in the hype and tweeted out they heard noises right away.
This man has a reassuring cadence and moustache. I also like the shape of his head
I agree
The head shape inspires confidence and trust
It’s the Naval man head shape. If he’s a naval man and has that head shape, he’s gonna be a damn good person to be around. Add in the mustache. Boom.
oh, my lord. I think you just said what all of us were really thinking - I would also add the "first responder" language and big words such as "assets" "checklist" "computer models and search patterns" "so they are" "and uh" and of course "well they didn't " were very comforting statements.
and don't even get me started on the very slight raspy tone of his vocal communication! man, he's got it ALL!
give this man a raise!
The spherical shape of his head reminds me of the end caps of the sub
It's a shame that other people died in the submersible, so Stockton Rush can't even be nominated for a Darwin Award. I swear, stupidity like this needs to be remembered.
exactly Sometimes breaking the rules and being the rebel can lead to innovation, and it might work out. But you don’t play with other people’s lives. If you want to take risks, do it on your own-don’t involve others and falsely assure them it's safe.... I feel terrible for that one kid who was afraid to go but just wanted to make his dad happy. He knew in his gut something was wrong, and now he’s gone.
That is true. The son and father probably didn't know it was a death trap but Stockton and the other 2 did 100%. They just wanted more clout.
But sadly most Sapiens have short memories!
yeah i feel if he was taking solo dives his legacy might be MUCH different. Like "Brave, innovative man dies piloting homemade sub with a game controller"
You think this wont be remembered?
Has anyone mentioned a few seconds after the implosion every American and British subs in the northern Atlantic heard it?
Nope. Don’t forget the Russian and Chinese subs too lol.
Not just that but US Navy anti-submarine listening arrays. They knew those guys were toast as soon as it happened.
@@tankerd1847Can you clarify? If that was the case, why wasn't the destruction announced then and there? Did the Navy not tell the coastguard what they heard? Or did they tell the coastguard, but neither body wanted to publicly acknowledge their listening capacity? Or did they simply have to make absolutely certain that the noise they heard was the sub imploding, not just a chance correlation?
@@PonderingStudentThis gentleman from @wgowshipping explained why a year ago: It's not that the Navy "knew", they were requested by Coast Guard to check the log files from around the time the vessel went missing. That search takes time, it could be reams of printed paper or whatever media this data is saved on (this systems date back from the cold war times). That's why it took several days for them to come back and say: "yes, we found something in our data, consistent with a bang around that area". Also, implosion of that small vessel in the vastness of the ocean probably will not be captured as a loud bang (even if it was a nuclear submarine it would have been difficult to listen). You might want to check that YT channel out, interesting and zero sensationalistic info there (he's invited/called by TV networks to share insights about sea related news) . All the best.
Oh they would have heard it for sure. But, they have their own operational procedures a lot of which is based on not sending signals that could be nefariously intercepted by adversaries. That’s a WHOLE DIFFERENT game of hide and seek!
But yes, they knew based on their detection systems that ‘something’ from that precise location had all the earmarkings of a catastrophic implosion, but need visual conformation to verify it.
The fact he mentioned they did not know a fraction of what had been explained tells a lot about how Rush's mentality, to have a majority of people he could entirely control and lie to ; I could think of a scenario of a mix of gullible, easily impressed, interested (if they were lied to about the money they would make), not experienced people that could still protect Rush and this project at this time and omit details to the USCG during a rescue mission. And you clearly see it in the hearings ; anyone taking their side is either ignorant, arrogant, stupid or the three at the same time. This whole thing was a screaming red flag under any point of view.
That isn't what he's talking about, though. Most of the information that's come out in the inquiry would've been completely irrelevant to the SAR mission. Even if they'd known that there way, say, an 80% chance that the vessel had been lost, they would've continued SAR operations until they were _certain._ The fact that one of the guys aboard was an arrogant prick who thought he could out-brazen engineering was beside the point.
@@Werrf1 Okay - my bad, even after all these years speaking english I sometimes slip on translation. I thought he was meaning that there were information being withheld that could have clarified/helped at any point in the situation from the crew. And all this being said, it's true I've seen people saying that they could have stopped the search on the first day, but I also understand that they searched until they saw the tail cone on the ocean floor.
Shame how stockton rush can never be trialed for murder..
It takes a special kind of person to be successful enough to afford this trip, and yet be dumb enough to go on it. Actually mind blowing.. I guess they thought Mr Rush was the aquatic version of Elon Musk.. let that sink in? - I mean no disrespect to the lives lost, it was his negligence, but they also should have known.
Agree 100%
The one guy was actually warned by others not to go down on that death trap.
He still went...
More money then brains.
The only one is the young man he didnt want to go but his dad forced him to
@@jone8626 exactly
@GeorgeLucas1138 that's the sad part right there.. been so long I forgot I heard that. R.I.P
Will never stop declaring that multi millionaires/billionaires playing and adventuring must be held liable for their own rescues and/or RECOVERIES. Nations need to pass laws that adventuring millionaires/billionaires must put up sufficient ESCROW to cover taxpayers’ intervention into all of their rescues/recoveries. PERIOD!!
Fantastic point. It would kill an already expensive industry but I would really like to know the total cost of the Titan recovery operation. Certainly in the tens of millions of dollars range.
Well said. They really expect people that aren't even involved to their bullshit to come and rescue their asses when things go terribly wrong 😂😂
As a peasant, your money belong to the billionaires. Was and will always be like this.
Stockton Rush’s wife, where is she? She worked there. Very protected.
How can you defend the indefensible, especially knowing how it worked out.
@@xiaoka , WHAT is indefensible?! The Titan made dives, successful dives, to the depth of the Titanic 13 times!
@@Gravitys-NOT-a-forceit’s a miracle too.
@@Gravitys-NOT-a-force and each time the glue and carbon fiber got weaker and weaker. Everyone knew this will happen. It was just a matter of when will it happen...
@@fffffffflei6589 , you're suggesting that Stockton Rush was suicidal? You've a lot of experience with wrapped carbon fiber under extreme, multi-axial, cyclic loading?
The lack of emergency self egress on the surface alone would have prevented the Titan from being certified
Imagine suffocating in that thing while it's bobbing on the surface, with breathable air mere inches away and yet a world apart.
explosive bolt or blow off hatch tech exists
@@toomanyaccounts Which would make it sink immediately
@@bernieeod57 nope. It's to allow people to escape a sinking craft
@@toomanyaccounts When the entire bow dome blows off, it floods, sinks, and kills everyone on board. This craft had no self egress
As soon as Canada said they heard noises at regular intervals I was skeptical. I think they got caught up in the hype and didn't take time to analyze it properly. Unless someone is tapping out SOS I'd take everything with a grain of salt. There are a lot of noises in the ocean, especially when there are a half dozen or so ships in the area.
As a former USN submarine Sonar Operator I knew as soon as it went down what happened and where it was. Even people that have just read about submarine war or accidents would know. The break up sounds are unmistakable if you ever heard a recording of an accident. Was wondering at the time what they were doing for hours
Denial, disbelief
Finally, someone I can understand... it takes a certain level of mustache to bring light to these events....
I read somewhere that they should pass the bill to whoever is in charge of OCEAN GATE.
Who paid for the rescue efforts? Citizens?
Who pays for the coastguard?
His wife is owner too. She seems to be MIA
Yeah, from my understanding a corporation offers a layer of protection to the owner as an individual. However, in some cases, the owners can be held personally liable.
As far a the coast guard part goes, the coast guard does not charge no matter the cicumstance or the status, rich or poor, of those involved. It is all figured into the annual opperations budget.
Any Engineer knows that carbon fiber is strong in tension, not compression, like a rope that doesn't do anything if you push the ends together. Deep sea hydrostatic pressure is compression. This was a total mis-application of engineering principles by a marketing fandango and/or questionable engineering expertise or even common sense.
Look at any ASME pressure vessel used in vacuum. They have ribs on the outside to prevent compressive failure. No such thing on OceanGate.
Not just that. If you bond two materials that expand and contract at different levels under pressure, like titanium and carbon fiber, connected by glue, and then alternate the pressure between 1atm and 400atm repeatedly, it will fail. The only question is when. I know this and I am not an engineer.
So what are you suggesting? That stockton and also the other passengers, including a highly experienced sub expert, didn't know any of that? Nobody jumps all over nasa for their insanely negligent fire during the apollo testing that killed three astronauts, yet that was a highly regulated endeavor. So many armchair engineers trying to dogpile this thing.
I just feel in the last few years we really hyped carbon fibers up, and there is potential there but in actuality I have experienced more failures than sicuccesses, and whwn things failed, they failed somewhat unlike people predicted. It's like, something that is like very strokg rope, is not going to behave like steel.
The vibe of it reminds me about when I learned in school about wankel engines that at some point had everyone convinced future cars will only have those, if only we ever figure out how to deal with heat distribution and oiling them without having to take the thing apart on every other oil change. We just kept waiting for the day when that will finally happen and now we are not even talking about them anymore.
Will we ever figure out that we can not replsce eveeything steel with carbon fibre?
@@koalanectar9382there is a very human aspect where we skip over the technical parts and trust stockton.
But yes, Stockton should have known better
@@koalanectar9382🤡🤡🤡
Much appreciation to the USCG and all the unified command to make sure that the correct resolution to this incident was verified. They had to conduct the surface search in case the sub surfaced and simultaneously the underwater search far below normal ROV depths. Stockton and his company should have had an ROV go down with his submersible to monitor and assist if something went wrong. James Cameron speaks of entanglement for example. This should be standard practice for deep submersibles.
In addition to the loss of life and the suffering of the families of the deceased, imagine the sheer cost of the search and rescue efforts. All the result of Rush's ego.
Oceangate had no rescue plan?! I've followed this story closely from day one, and I have lost count of the number of times I've thought "This is it, this is the limit of their stupidity" only to be proved rapidly wrong.
Hey maybe we should make it illegal to use mass grave sites for tourism... oh wait... maybe we should just enforce laws
International Waters... thats the Problem i guess.
Yeah, i don't think anything about the sounds are "mysterious".
Great content and beautifully presented thanks for the upload watching from Melbourne Australia 😢
I don't know about you but I can't wait for the movie to come out.
The noises was a warning that got ignored by the arrogant Rush. It was the cracking of the carbon fiber.
The knocking sound was the sound of Stockton being thrown under the bus so hard by Oceangate in the future that the sound revereberated back through time as the Bus ran him over and backed over him a few times.
How can you bang against carbon fibre and hear it.
Sound waves will propagate through any material. In fact, sound travels faster underwater, it's just distorted.
The morally responsible thing to do was to assume there was a possibility of rescue but then the Navy already knew…
They hadn't done a submarine recovery operation in forever, regardless of the realistic outcome it was an opportunity to test the systems and procedures. It was good practise. Too expensive to do without a reason but given a reason it was good to do. Next time someone might still be alive, submarines have become stuck before.
Wait, people don’t have to file a plan with the coastguard before going down in a submersible? He didn’t even know if such a protocol was in place? Aircraft are way safer and more common and they need to file flight plans, how do we not have something so basic in place? Especially with experimental crafts.
Apparently operated in international waters
This vessel was never approved by any American standard or organisation, that's why they went out on the Atlantic and launched the Titan there. Stockton knew exactly what he was doing, he was playing with people's lives. All deep sea diving vessels are sphere shaped, and at school we all learned why that shape is the best option. Stockton made an empty beer can from two different materials and was lucky to get away with it several times before it finally imploded and ended up on the bottom of the ocean. I don't feel sorry for Stockton or OceanGate at all, they all knew what was coming their way. Can't post links here, but watch Scott Manley's video about it, very sobering ...
@@bertholdbouman3007 Also said materials were not up to grade quality wise (he bought scrap materials at discount) or even known for not withstanding extreme water pressure (carbon fibre will crack with repeated exposure to pressure). Hence the "popping" noises in the hull people would hear. Stockton paid the price for his arrogance. I just wish it wasn't at the expense of 4 innocent lives that he took with him.
its crazy how they knew wasn't a rescue why tell the world rescue mission 30 hrs of air left or whatever it was like a timed rescue giving fake hope. Very weird
They were searching for the sub on the surface. It's constructed in such a way that you cannot exit it from the inside (it's bolted from the outside). So the 30 hours is meaningful.
I thought the same until a coast guard said although they knew Navy had heard possible implosion, they work on 100% confirmed information not assumptions. If they did not treat it like they did and told the world the Navy heard a noise that implied implosion had happened and they would wait until a submersible arrived on Thursday to confirm, people would be outraged and on that chance they died floating on the surface waiting for rescue, could you imagine what rage would ensue because they didn’t do all of it?
Hindsight is 20/20 but if it was my loved one I would hope they would do everything possible if only slim chance.
Also media was using it to captivate audiences not so much searchers
I recently saw another interview with the USCG mustached man where he was pressed on this issue and his (paraphrased) response was “in the business of search and rescue, in the absence of definitive evidence, we have a moral and statutory responsibility to continue searching.” Plus the Navy info was classified at the time so the USCG couldn’t publicly admit that info although it had been circulated via anonymous channels.
They are also saying We will eventually search for not more than 30 hours, so don't be surprised if we stop tomorrow.
Bet the Captain’s officer review board was tougher. One must applaud the Captain’s professionalism … notifying the next of kin has to be the emotionally hardest part of the job.
Take note, the Captain sad that most SAR operations start as a muddle. If those lost in the woods knew where they were they wouldn’t need to be found, rescued yes, but not found.
Do you ever get the impression that these hearings are just for show? What exactly does this accomplish?
Seems like a gigantic waste of time and money for all of these hearings. This all falls at the feet of 1 man and his wife. She is just as responsible imo.
Which part of the submersible did she design?
Tbf it’s not just to find out guilt. The govt benefits from doing investigations to determine where they can prevent future events (e.g. what regulations, safety procedures).
@@fluxington she was there every step of the way. Design be damned. Also , she ran the comma. She was just as involved as her husband.
Right. She freakin christened the sub
If you listen to the noise, it sounds quite the same as the sound of the implosion (the second one), especially the last one of the 4 bangs, of course the sound of the implosion is louder but sounds quite the same.
an implosion is going to generate sonic boom.
*Before the implosion
Everybody: That thing is going to implode !
*After the implosion
Everybody: We don't know what happened but we're sure we heard them making banging noises ?
*Reality: They were instantly vaporized, and we already knew that would be the result.
Search, yeah. But there's not going to be any rescue.
What about the telltale sound of an implosion heard by the US and British navies? Why did the nonsense about banging sounds even get released to the press? Ridiculous.
We had several days of people running around speculating about underwater noises, depleting oxygen and huge search areas but when they (eventually) searched in the last known location…hey presto! There it was on the sea floor directly below.
For the viewership, clicks, attention. The media made money through everyone's obsession with the story, just like they're doing now with this enquiry
@@Leewise1 I’m talking much less about the media and more about what the coastguard was saying at the time. They kept the media speculating with the nonsense about banging noises and large search areas instead of sticking to what they knew and nothing more.
@crabbit101 Again, the media takes whatever they think they can make a story, and what will make money. The coastguard, essentially, does what they're told and says what they're told to say.
Is there public information available about why it took so long to look for the sub in the most likely place it was? The most likely situation by far was that the sub was destroyed very near to the time communication was lost.
Yes, all of those questions have been answered.
Hello, it took days to get an ROV capable of diving to those depths on site.
Need a pop filter on that mic.
Get this man a pop-filter jeez
Making those next of kin calls must have been rough.
Why is the coast guard interviewing the coast guard???
It’s effectively an internal oversight committee. Someone in the USCG not related to the rescue was assigned to build a report, so that includes talking to USCG personnel who were involved in the rescue who are still doing their day to day jobs.
I was wondering the same thing.
There's no party like a Diddy party.
Nothing mysterious about the sound of carbon fibre delaminating whilst under immense pressure….
Given the construction of the vehicle and the pressure it was at, it was a foregone conclusion that the occupants were gone.
The ‘rescue’ display was a sham and a waste of money.
How ocean gate operated was a sham.
He did say-when asked if Ocean gate gave him enough info- that he didn't have a fraction of the information revealed at the inquiry-basically that the Titan was a death trap that consistently had failures of every sort.I guess he thought it was a search for a safe sub like the certified subs which would have had a chance. But he should have been aware of what the certified sub owners do-"15 minutes of losing comms-emergency mode.30 minutes-locate and recover" Oceangate didn't bother contacting for 8 hours. And-"Lost comms lost tracking ? Lost sub."-another quote from certified sub owners/experts.
Lol😂. It is search and rescue. That isn't a consideration. It is like the fire department. They save people, put out the fire and THEN let others determine a cause.
It wasn't known when the search and rescue was conducted that the Titan imploded. In hindsight it was a waste of time, but that wasn't known then.
Its a rescue mission unless theres clear evidence of an implosion. They had to find the evidence first. Even if you were to be swept out to sea they would call it a rescue mission for at least 24-36 hours before theyd consider it a 'recovery' mission
Remember the rule, kids: The water wants to kill you..............................
Anyone that has ever done a SUBSAFE audit on submersibles knows this thing would never have passed.
Why couldn’t he have just gotten the damn thing SUBSAFE certified? All that ego. Ego get’s more people killed than anything else I can think of.
It cost money, and he was already underwater on the company. He had $100M from investors and planned to get about $1M per tour with full passenger load; he would have to have had 100 dives just to break even, which wasn't going to happen. Lots of effort was put into ducking standards to save money, while the worldwide sub community told them repeatedly it was a bad idea. One joker on this site said it was like Rush had heard the word "substandard" and misunderstood it.
I've done Subsafe-style work, on a US Navy submarine, related to the 4500psi nitrogen system on a Trident (Ohio) class. It requires a mindset that Stockton Rush wouldn't have supported.
Religion kills more than ego.
I was certified as a SUBSAFE QAI and served on two boats including a Thresher/Permit class boat. It still horrifies me his total lack of concern of safety.
Simply put he wanted to do it on the cheap. That's all it was. Greed.
These interviews and the whole investigation are fascinating, of course, but we aren't getting a true read on when the USN/USCG knew the Titan submersible imploded......which I'm sure was due to the secrecy of our acoustic sensing systems. Im guessing they knew when it happened but kept that confidential.
I kind of think it’s like when the police or detectives find a body. The community will know there was a girl with a pink shirt that has been missing for weeks. And then the police find a body of a girl with a pink shirt on. But they don’t say anything right away or if they do, they don’t say much because they need to confirm who it is. That’s what I think with the they probably knew that it imploded but they wanted to make sure they could find it first or really confirm it. That’s just my thoughts.
@katrinat.3032 Good analogy. They knew but didn't confirm until the deep diving drone got visuals 4 days after.
@@rickbase833ROV
The navy already knew what happened the picked it hp.on there underwater microphones just like the lost Argentinan sub they heard it implod
Spare yourself 10 mins and hear the answer, "it was 100%...NOT human". Have a nice day.
The amount of UA-cam armchair engineers in here is hilarious. 😂😂😂😂
Admit if this never happened everyone would still be wanting to go see the Titanic
Agreed. We should still keep exploring the deep ocean. There were rules in place *before* ocean gate that they negligently decided to break and it shouldn’t tarnish the premise completely. It’s like Chernobyl that was designed to fail tainting nuclear energy which is totally safe.
I think before this even happened alot of people didn't want to do it..
Not fan of graves, especially underwater graves with thousands of lost souls. No.
Nope. Let the dead rest in peace
Warning. Detecting multiple leviathan class life forms in the region. Are you certain whatever you are doing is worth it?
Subnautica in VR is the scariest game I've ever played.
If OG had a plan it was not presented to us [unified command/USCG]?.
Legend says that the captain is still trying to get a drink.
USCG doing everything it can to CTA.
Do good submergible vehicles make banging noises on the way down? 😎👊🏾💪🏾🌱
Some popping and creaking would be normal. The titan sub had a loud crack on an earlier dive which also showed a change on the strain sensors. The hull should have been retired at that point.
They talked about safety systems and then decided to ignore those safety systems when they showed things going bad.
Yes, I did watch the video on those strain sensors and if they would’ve paid attention to that, I think they would probably be alive today. Because I’m no kind of scientist but the way that the gentleman explained it was pretty elementary just gotta look at the data! and I really do think OSHA should’ve looked into that whistleblowers information a little closer!! because if they did, I think that would also mean all of those people would still be alive today. thank you very much for your reply, sir or ma’am.
@@waltmann66 Like someone else said, everything just keeps getting dumber and dumber. There’s just so many points where it was wrong and should have been stopped then reevaluated. But, that’s hard when they fire anybody slowing down the progress.
Personally I think the noises were screws coming undone which caused it to lose pressure dumped everyone forwards and implosion/explosion happened
Carbon fiber coffin
Megladon took out the OceanGate Titan Vessel.
it was willy 30 years after being freed
has the navy explained why they let the search and rescue continue for days after they knew when it imploded?
Are you saving poor people who are victimized or just rich idiots with our tax dollars?
Coast Guard doesn’t have submarines
You sure about that? USCG is stealth navy.
@@rickbase833 homeland security
Do this lot get medals for polishing shoes? Are medals not supposed to be exceptionally rare and given for extraordinary work?
Great to discus this....missing the point...Why is the US Government spending even a penny on these investigations? Coast Guard, NationalTransportationSB, OSHA, Congress. 370 miles of the coast of Newfoundland. Not US jurisdiction. Private enterprise with volunteer daredevils, not domestic workers.
- Simple: substandard (marketing) or incompetent engineering led to failure. End of Story.
- Investigations are attempts to expand the scope of these departments for future funding?
- Ocean Gate and the estate of the CEO Stockton Rush should be charged for every penny spent.
It is U.S jurisdiction
its to stop it from happening again, kinda like the FAA, they try to put in new rules in place right every time an accident happens
Because the US government has an interest in learning what worked and what didn’t. Because the various orgs can then improve their processes. Because next time it might not be a an idiot doing idiotic things.
Why would we ever want to learn from failure? 🤔
So many lives have been saved from things learned and applied (new laws/regulations) revealed from these types of investigations.
they detected the noises once hunters laptop surfaced
Government making "work" for itself.
Someone needs to walk up to these guys and say "please keep the mic within 30 feet of your mouth. People can't hear you. "
Can people stop using the term "truth" in every post?
Sorry if I may, but I have 5 questions: don't you want the word 'truth' to be used because:
1) Do you believe that objective truth doesn't exist because you're a staunch relativist?
2) Do you believe that objective truth exists but is not accessible through this particular channel?
3) Do you know the objective truth yourself and know that this channel doesn't?
4) Do you believe that the word 'truth' is a trap to attract views from people who are easily impressed and lack critical thinking?
5) Does the sound of the word 'truth' bother you?
@@trolley4388 4 .... and truth is complicated in most case.
Truth!
True that
Is it just me or does it seem like the lady asking the questions is just getting familiar with the basics of search and rescue mission. Seems rediculous!!
This is how inquest hearings work. That “lady asking the questions” is a member of the Coast Guard, specifically the the Coast Guard Marine Board of Investigations. Don’t criticize her just because you are ignorant to what an inquest hearing is. I assure you she knows more about search and rescue missions than you ever will, and I guarantee she is more brave and has done more to serve her country than you ever could. Have some respect.
Also, you spelled “ridiculous” wrong.
It's for the record. In the future after this is forgotten, those questions will be very helpful for context.
They’re questions for the record, ya dip.
To understand Leviathan, watch this video. The bureaucracy is using this incident as juatification for staffing up, and adding ever more pages to its rulebook. Note the CFR already has a million pages... but we clearly need more because otherwise someone might do the wrong thing.
Why does a private enterprise endeavor of volunteer daredevils headed for 400 miles off the coast of Newfoundland need to be "certified" by any US government interest other than Lloyds of London?
The world is ours
Same reason US citizens are required to pay tax on income earnt outside the US, even if income tax has already been paid on it: the US claims jurisdiction over all US citizens regardless of location.
Same reason US citizens are required to pay tax on income earnt outside the US, even if income tax has already been paid on it: the US claims jurisdiction over all US citizens regardless of location.
They don't, and they weren't, unless you engage in commercial activity over certain thresholds. That is why their customers were classed as "mission specialists". That said, your business will suffer if you aren't certified. Certification is a statement of competency and testing that informs a consumer that a business is operating within the relm of best practices and safety. Oceangate was less than forthcoming to their customers about the deficiencies of their submersible, deficiencies that likely would have been exposed during a certification process.
Interviewer = DEI at its finest.
Why?
Some people love to hear themselves talk
Some people love to leave comments.
Investigations = waste of taxpayer money. Golden Fleece award.
Idiocrcy 😂🎉🎉
I don't really understand the seething hatred for stockton in these comments. This is all a love letter to regulatory agencies, which don't have a particularly good track record either.
Stockton was a real jerk, that's why.
Are you joking?! 😂😂😂
Him and his ego murdered multiple people...get a clue!
@@rbsk999same as governments
@@rbsk999 The more I hear about his submersible designs, the more I don't care for them.
@@seanseanston what a terrible name for a submersible, it reminds me of that tragedy.