To restore is to rebuild it to exact original factory specs. Any changes or upgrades make it a restomod. Cars in original condition are becoming more valuable than both above. Your Landy can never be original again, wrong top, changed color, etc. The choice is then between restore (get the correct top, use factory color, etc) and restomod (like the leather seats mentioned, keeping the top, mechanical upgrades, deviations etc.) How deep you go with these 2 is another discussion, budget related and will require a more descriptive term, like full restoration, partial restoration, frame off restoration etc. The way you guys talk, I will call it a restomod. My 2 cents😊
Thanks Div! I think partial restoration is a good description. Restomod is also good however, when I hear the word, it makes me think of metalic paint, magwheels, engine change and other non original upgrades.
@BroughBuilt partial resto fits well, yes. The definition of a restomod is a type of vehicle restoration that combines vintage cars' classic design and style with modern technology and components. But yes, these days, it does refer to the type of car you are referring to. The original definition of resto, restomod, street rod, hot rod and even rat rod has become very distorted and are used very loosely now. Partial resto is a perfect description 😀
I love the fact that with an old Rover the fact that "it doesn't leak too much oil" lands it in the "runs beautifully" category lol. As far as the semantics of "restoration", I agree that a "full restoration" would take the car back as close as possible to the way it left the factory. That process can be insanely comprehensive and extensive and the "quality" of that restoration can hinge on a wide variety of factors, such as how original the car was to begin, with, the availability of NOS parts, and obviously the skill and knowledge of those working on the car. Personally, I agree that what kind of restoration you pursue depends on the goals of the owner and any value judgements regarding the choices they make should be taken with a grain of salt. Ultimately, if the owner does work that preserves the car in it's generally factory configuration and keeps it on the road that's a good thing.
My definition of restoration is to make good. It should not look brand new, as it is already in good condition. Repair what is necessary and leave the rest. Service the brakes and trans, engine refresh as required, Full repaint.
Just stumbled onto your account and I’m so excited. I’m starting a 2 door Range Rover classic restomod and have a heavy interest in getting into composites, so I’m running through your videos. Thanks for documenting your projects!
I'm really looking forward to these Landy videos Danie. I'm sure your restoration will be exceptional, entertaining and interesting. Landy's are one of my passions. I owned a restored Series 3 Short wheel base Landy for 28 years. My personal opinion on restorations...try to get as close to factory condition as possible within your allocated available time and budget. Usually Landy owners themselves are their own worst critics about restorations. Restored SWB Series Landys are getting rare and are extremely sought after world wide. cheers Paul
I believe it‘s up to the owner how far he/she wants to go. As a restore myself i always buy my projects in the worse condition for the model and make as you know what are the common problems are with certain models as in rust traps and so on. I think the patina thing is overrated and sometimes used as an excuse to not do the work. I always think the devil is in the detail and watching you both work is a joy knowing there is great craftsmen out there doing it right. Cheers Dave
Nice video and discussion, I have just faced these same questions “restoring” a 1955 Land Rover. Doesn’t matter what you call it. What matters is the quality and depth to the work. If you rebuild everything properly you will have 100% new and reliable. The more you leave the more you take short cuts, the less reliability you get.
One suggestion I would have is to get a 55 gallon poly drum and fill it with water and molasses; I've hear one part molasses to ten parts water, so roughly six gallons of probably the livestock feed grade molasses and the rest water, and you'll need a top for the drum But I'd just throw any parts that are rusty (after degreasing into the drum and let them sit for a couple weeks. When you take them out the remaining iron oxide just rinses right off or with a light brushing. The benefit is if you leave it sitting too long it doesn't damage the metal, unlike some of the acid solutions.
Restoration is a complete stripping the car down to frame and rebuilding everything- refresh is getting it running fix what’s needed it depends on how much you want to spend on it and is it worth a total restoration
I agree with you but then it begs the question, how many cars has actually ever really been restored? Because there is almost always some components that are left untouched
I agree with you both. The level of restoration is determined by time, budget and dedication. I believe every build is unique, while one person might enjoy the slow ageing of their vehicle (rust patina) another person would want to see theirs looking like it just rolled off the line. I like stock showroom condition cars, old rust buckets, bangers and fully custom, crazy engine, turbos that make your ears bleed.. everything 😅 If you could travel in style, what car would you pick Danie & Matt ? one rule, has to have 4 doors 😛 Great discussion lads, looking forward to the next post 👍🏽
That's the exact reason why I've never been able to niche down on a specific type of vehicle. Travel in style with four doors? Tough one🤔. I'm big on Euro cars... Bentley has to be one of the most amazing cars I've ever had the honour of driving.
My own classic is absolutely a 'restomod' a term not invented when I first rebuilt it. It's much more than a 'refresh', and way past a 'restoration', but I have done it sympathetically using original parts from the original manufacturer, plus period correct parts. It's appearance is more important to me than how 'correct' every mechanical part may be. It was of course a financial disaster with thousands of my hours spent on it. I have no regrets, but I would not do it again. If I should ever have another, it will be kept original.
Hi Darnie, (apologies if I have spelt your name wrong) if your client is going to use the Landy on his farm, by all means build it up from a reconditioned chassis but if the engine, gearbox (poss a new clutch) and body (after a good T cut) are fine, there is no point going mad on the interior other than recovering the seats, in my humble opinion. David from the UK - ps I really miss South Africa and the friendly population
Danie, moenie worry oor wat die couch builders se nie. Hulle is meer bek as binnegoed soos wat die spreek woord lui. Jy doen wat jy dink is goed. Jou werk is puik.🇿🇦🇦🇺🇬🇪🇷🇺🇷🇺🇷🇺
I suppose the purest would say that's not original, but for me I lıke the practicality and looks of them and as you say leather is more durable plus a V 8 wouldn't change it's looks!
I restore wood boats as a vocation. The restoration hinges on what the client wants. Generally the goal is to maintain as many of the original parts as possible. In some cases that means almost nothing can be reused re: ship of Theseus. Whatever is decided between you and your client is the correct answer. I’ve found armchair critics on YT usually add nothing and when you click on their profile have zero content. Don’t waste your time on them.
If the intention of the Owner is to use on his farm, then a full nuts & bolts restoration is not warranted. It would be ensuring the structure is OK as well as mechanicals. I am not a Land Rover fundi but would suggest a check is done regarding the desirability of this one. If very rare and desirable then you don’t want to compromise that.
I think you answered your own question during the video when you said “in my opinion”. Whatever your opinion of a restoration is, then that’s a restoration. Mathew also explained the various “restoration” types, mechanical restoration, body restoration or both. It comes down to every person’s own opinion. For some, a bit of an all over tidy up is a restoration and for others only a concourse restoration will do. Perhaps a more formal level of restorations could be agreed upon by professional restorers, organisers and governing bodies so that restorerslike yourselves could say I’m going to do an X restoration on this vehicle and everybody knows what to expect. How deep do you go? Are upgraded parts and materials OK? What about upgrading some safety item? What about repaired parts or reproduction parts? You do absolutely amazing work and for those that sit in their armchairs and criticise, tell them to fuck off. What’s happening with the motr ohm.😂 Cheers, Stuart 🇦🇺
The problem is not the definitions because those inevitably evolve. The problem is what youcalled "couch warriors": If you replaced everything including all the sheet-metal because there was one molecule of rust on each panel, some will say it's not the original car. If you preserved the panels others would say you cut corners. You won't win either way, so just do what you think is best in each situation, and there's plenty of evidence on this channel that suggests you have great judgment.
Some people have nothing better to do than find fault & criticise others. Who cares? Restoration comes in different formats & I would consider a body off, refurbishment & repaint, a restoration, even if it's not quite back to original. We have better materials & better options available these days, to give longevity, improved performance & a more user friendly end product. Matthew can surely confirm that Leyland had its issues with build quality & the series 3 suffered the most, so enhancements here & there, will only keep the old girl on the road for many more years to come.
Definition of restoration is that every single system has been taken apart and rebuilt to as new or better than new condition. Otherwise it is a refresh. No offence intended. Of course you don't HAVE to do any more than necessary!
I hear you. And what about things parts that's already in near perfect condition? For instance should you rebuild the engine even if it's running well?
@BroughBuilt That really depends on it's true condition, what you find when you look inside, it might be running well today, but...which knows how well it has been maintained? At least inspect the bores and the bearings.
Maybe stop using the word "restore" and call it a "rebuild". "Restore" means to return it to its original condition and it's often senseless to do that.
More ppl need to find yr channel. The work that you do is excellent.
To restore is to rebuild it to exact original factory specs. Any changes or upgrades make it a restomod. Cars in original condition are becoming more valuable than both above. Your Landy can never be original again, wrong top, changed color, etc. The choice is then between restore (get the correct top, use factory color, etc) and restomod (like the leather seats mentioned, keeping the top, mechanical upgrades, deviations etc.) How deep you go with these 2 is another discussion, budget related and will require a more descriptive term, like full restoration, partial restoration, frame off restoration etc. The way you guys talk, I will call it a restomod. My 2 cents😊
Thanks Div! I think partial restoration is a good description. Restomod is also good however, when I hear the word, it makes me think of metalic paint, magwheels, engine change and other non original upgrades.
@BroughBuilt partial resto fits well, yes. The definition of a restomod is a type of vehicle restoration that combines vintage cars' classic design and style with modern technology and components. But yes, these days, it does refer to the type of car you are referring to. The original definition of resto, restomod, street rod, hot rod and even rat rod has become very distorted and are used very loosely now. Partial resto is a perfect description 😀
I love the fact that with an old Rover the fact that "it doesn't leak too much oil" lands it in the "runs beautifully" category lol. As far as the semantics of "restoration", I agree that a "full restoration" would take the car back as close as possible to the way it left the factory. That process can be insanely comprehensive and extensive and the "quality" of that restoration can hinge on a wide variety of factors, such as how original the car was to begin, with, the availability of NOS parts, and obviously the skill and knowledge of those working on the car. Personally, I agree that what kind of restoration you pursue depends on the goals of the owner and any value judgements regarding the choices they make should be taken with a grain of salt. Ultimately, if the owner does work that preserves the car in it's generally factory configuration and keeps it on the road that's a good thing.
My definition of restoration is to make good. It should not look brand new, as it is already in good condition. Repair what is necessary and leave the rest. Service the brakes and trans, engine refresh as required, Full repaint.
I agree with you 100%. Cheers!
Just stumbled onto your account and I’m so excited. I’m starting a 2 door Range Rover classic restomod and have a heavy interest in getting into composites, so I’m running through your videos. Thanks for documenting your projects!
I'm really looking forward to these Landy videos Danie. I'm sure your restoration will be exceptional, entertaining and interesting. Landy's are one of my passions. I owned a restored Series 3 Short wheel base Landy for 28 years. My personal opinion on restorations...try to get as close to factory condition as possible within your allocated available time and budget. Usually Landy owners themselves are their own worst critics about restorations. Restored SWB Series Landys are getting rare and are extremely sought after world wide. cheers Paul
I believe it‘s up to the owner how far he/she wants to go. As a restore myself i always buy my projects in the worse condition for the model and make as
you know what are the common problems are with certain models as in rust traps and so on. I think the patina thing is overrated and sometimes used as
an excuse to not do the work. I always think the devil is in the detail and watching you both work is a joy knowing there is great craftsmen out there doing
it right. Cheers Dave
Thanks Dave! I agree with the patina argument to an extent because I've personally used it as an excuse on some builds in the past😁
Nice video and discussion, I have just faced these same questions “restoring” a 1955 Land Rover. Doesn’t matter what you call it. What matters is the quality and depth to the work. If you rebuild everything properly you will have 100% new and reliable. The more you leave the more you take short cuts, the less reliability you get.
One suggestion I would have is to get a 55 gallon poly drum and fill it with water and molasses; I've hear one part molasses to ten parts water, so roughly six gallons of probably the livestock feed grade molasses and the rest water, and you'll need a top for the drum But I'd just throw any parts that are rusty (after degreasing into the drum and let them sit for a couple weeks. When you take them out the remaining iron oxide just rinses right off or with a light brushing. The benefit is if you leave it sitting too long it doesn't damage the metal, unlike some of the acid solutions.
Restoration is a complete stripping the car down to frame and rebuilding everything- refresh is getting it running fix what’s needed it depends on how much you want to spend on it and is it worth a total restoration
I agree with you but then it begs the question, how many cars has actually ever really been restored? Because there is almost always some components that are left untouched
I agree with you both. The level of restoration is determined by time, budget and dedication. I believe every build is unique, while one person might enjoy the slow ageing of their vehicle (rust patina) another person would want to see theirs looking like it just rolled off the line. I like stock showroom condition cars, old rust buckets, bangers and fully custom, crazy engine, turbos that make your ears bleed.. everything 😅
If you could travel in style, what car would you pick Danie & Matt ? one rule, has to have 4 doors 😛 Great discussion lads, looking forward to the next post 👍🏽
That's the exact reason why I've never been able to niche down on a specific type of vehicle.
Travel in style with four doors? Tough one🤔. I'm big on Euro cars... Bentley has to be one of the most amazing cars I've ever had the honour of driving.
Having done a full "frame off" restoration on my 1973 LR "88" back in 1995 I'm looking forward to this series of restoration videos.
I hope we don't disappoint 😉
My own classic is absolutely a 'restomod' a term not invented when I first rebuilt it. It's much more than a 'refresh', and way past a 'restoration', but I have done it sympathetically using original parts from the original manufacturer, plus period correct parts. It's appearance is more important to me than how 'correct' every mechanical part may be. It was of course a financial disaster with thousands of my hours spent on it. I have no regrets, but I would not do it again. If I should ever have another, it will be kept original.
Love it! I think I'm going to use that description from now on. Sympathetic Restoration 👍👍
Hi Darnie, (apologies if I have spelt your name wrong) if your client is going to use the Landy on his farm, by all means build it up from a reconditioned chassis but if the engine, gearbox (poss a new clutch) and body (after a good T cut) are fine, there is no point going mad on the interior other than recovering the seats, in my humble opinion. David from the UK - ps I really miss South Africa and the friendly population
thanks for your feedback David! Hope you visit SA from time to time
Danie, moenie worry oor wat die couch builders se nie. Hulle is meer bek as binnegoed soos wat die spreek woord lui. Jy doen wat jy dink is goed. Jou werk is puik.🇿🇦🇦🇺🇬🇪🇷🇺🇷🇺🇷🇺
For me so long as you use the correct parts it can be a part or full restoration! If you want to change parts it surely becomes a "Restomod"
Agreed. And how about updating like leather upholstery? Same stitch and style though
I suppose the purest would say that's not original, but for me I lıke the practicality and looks of them and as you say leather is more durable plus a
V 8 wouldn't change it's looks!
I restore wood boats as a vocation. The restoration hinges on what the client wants. Generally the goal is to maintain as many of the original parts as possible. In some cases that means almost nothing can be reused re: ship of Theseus. Whatever is decided between you and your client is the correct answer. I’ve found armchair critics on YT usually add nothing and when you click on their profile have zero content. Don’t waste your time on them.
Thanks Nick. Well said!
If the intention of the Owner is to use on his farm, then a full nuts & bolts restoration is not warranted. It would be ensuring the structure is OK as well as mechanicals. I am not a Land Rover fundi but would suggest a check is done regarding the desirability of this one. If very rare and desirable then you don’t want to compromise that.
They definitely have value, not so much as older models but still enough to spend some effort on.
I think you answered your own question during the video when you said “in my opinion”. Whatever your opinion of a restoration is, then that’s a restoration. Mathew also explained the various “restoration” types, mechanical restoration, body restoration or both. It comes down to every person’s own opinion. For some, a bit of an all over tidy up is a restoration and for others only a concourse restoration will do. Perhaps a more formal level of restorations could be agreed upon by professional restorers, organisers and governing bodies so that restorerslike yourselves could say I’m going to do an X restoration on this vehicle and everybody knows what to expect.
How deep do you go? Are upgraded parts and materials OK? What about upgrading some safety item? What about repaired parts or reproduction parts?
You do absolutely amazing work and for those that sit in their armchairs and criticise, tell them to fuck off.
What’s happening with the motr ohm.😂
Cheers, Stuart 🇦🇺
Thanks Stuart! I like your argument. At the end of the day one cannot possibly satisfy everyone's critique.
@@BroughBuilt 👍👍👍
Aaaah julle is so oulik! Love die videos.
The problem is not the definitions because those inevitably evolve. The problem is what youcalled "couch warriors": If you replaced everything including all the sheet-metal because there was one molecule of rust on each panel, some will say it's not the original car. If you preserved the panels others would say you cut corners. You won't win either way, so just do what you think is best in each situation, and there's plenty of evidence on this channel that suggests you have great judgment.
Thank you! Yeah it is tough to satisfy everyone but I'm always looking for ways to evolve and become better, so your feedback helps a lot!
Some people have nothing better to do than find fault & criticise others. Who cares? Restoration comes in different formats & I would consider a body off, refurbishment & repaint, a restoration, even if it's not quite back to original. We have better materials & better options available these days, to give longevity, improved performance & a more user friendly end product. Matthew can surely confirm that Leyland had its issues with build quality & the series 3 suffered the most, so enhancements here & there, will only keep the old girl on the road for many more years to come.
Definition of restoration is that every single system has been taken apart and rebuilt to as new or better than new condition. Otherwise it is a refresh. No offence intended. Of course you don't HAVE to do any more than necessary!
I hear you. And what about things parts that's already in near perfect condition? For instance should you rebuild the engine even if it's running well?
@BroughBuilt That really depends on it's true condition, what you find when you look inside, it might be running well today, but...which knows how well it has been maintained? At least inspect the bores and the bearings.
Maybe stop using the word "restore" and call it a "rebuild". "Restore" means to return it to its original condition and it's often senseless to do that.
Good argument 🤔