Chevy's 427 MONSTER That Ford Was Scared To Race - The 1963 Impala Z11
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- Опубліковано 17 лис 2023
- In this Rare Cars documentary, we are diving into the history of one of the most ridiculous and winning factory built Racers of the day, the 1963 Chevrolet Impala Z11. This purpose built bracket brawler went toe to toe with some of the fastest cars of the day like the Ford Thunderbolt and a slew of HEMIs.
Learn all there is to know about the 1963 Chevrolet Impala Z11 in episode 39 of the Rare Cars documentary series.
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*Note, we are not historians. If you see an error in our research then please mention it in the comments!
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Ford was scared to race? I guess some folks have never heard of a Ford 427 Fairlane Thunderbolt...
I agree the Thunderbolt crushed them all. But they came in 64.
@@paulabes4220 Mopar down sized their cars for 1962, That same year they also introduced the Max wedge 413. Both Ford and Chevy full size cars Were 700 pounds heavier than A Mopar. Both Ford and Chevy built a lite version of their full-size cars but they were still to heavy to compete with the Mopar Cars. the thunderbolt was built to run against the Max wedge Mopar's, Chevy was not a factor. In the mid 1960's NHRA got lost with their modified funny cars. Then decided to get back to what Fans could identify with. Super Stock class was born that is when Mopa built the hemi Dart and Cuda. they were the only Cars to be a true A/super Stock.
@@paulabes4220they go boom a lot
Maybe if a guy had a 1960 ford with a 352 he may not want to race a z11, I'll bet there was never a Thunderbolt owner that would shy away.
Ford wasnt backing down from NOBODY ! Thunderbolts and Comets would wring bowtie out like a wet towel.
The Z-11 427 and the 427 Mystery Motor used in NASCAR are two completely different engines, what they have in common is the displacement.
The mystery motor was the mark 4 bbc
I believe it was the predecessor of the Mk IV, and it was called the Mk II.
The Mystery Motor was totally different from the 427 that would replace it immediately. The Mystery Motor had a bigger bore with a shorter stroke vs the 427 that GM engineers decided to go with instead. The reason was COST CUTTING: The Mystery Motor would cost far more to produce. Other than the valve train issues, the Mystery Motor was much more powerful & could rev better than the 427 that replaced it, due to the Mystery Motor's shorter stroke. Both Junior Johnson ( with Ray Fox as his engine builder ) and Smokey Yunick loved the Mystery Motor in nascar competition, even though they were having major problems with the valve train holding together for an entire 500 mile race. But in EVERY race that Junior Johnson ran the Mystery Motor, it was leading the most laps until it blew up, and if the valve train held up, IT WON THE RACE.......blowing the doors off everything else. And they won many races in '63, but their DNF's kept them from winning the '63 championship. Both Junior Johnson and his engine builder Ray Fox stated that if they could've solved the valve train issues so the engine would live, they would've easily won nearly every race........providing they didn't crash, get crashed, or screw up somehow with bad pit stop strategies. It's a damned shame, because if the bean counters were ignored & pushed aside by GM's top brass and had chosen to stick with the Mystery Motor, their engineers could've had the time & money to solve the valve train issues that plagued the Mystery Motor. They simply didn't allow enough time for Chevy's engineers to "get it right". Smokey Yunick even stated that aside from the sketchy valve train, the Mystery Motor was a far superior and more potent engine vs the 427 that replaced it........which was totally different due to a smaller bore and longer stroke. @@HioSSilver1999
For 1963. It was tough 400 lbs lighter than the Ford's. But in 64. The ford 427 hi riser blew it away. Then the 426 hemi blew it away. The mk2 mystery motor. Had nothing for them so Chevy pulled out of racing. They were out gunned and knew it. But I am glade that some of these cars survived. They deserved there place in history
You're so off the mark, it's pathetic. When Junior Johnson with Ray Fox raced in the '63 season in nascar, they led the most laps until 1 of 3 things happened: either the valve train failed in the Mystery Motor, or they were crashed, or a bad pit stop/strategy. In any race where none of those things happened, and that was a lot of races, they won EVERY race. But too many DNF's kept them from winning the championship that same year. You better tighten up on your racing history Buckwheat. Furthermore: Chevy didn't back out of racing "because they had nothing for the competition"............that's pure bullshit. During the off-season, Chevy had already promised & delivered a handful of Mystery Motors and complete Impala's to both Junior Johnson and Smokey Yunick.......but then Chrysler, Ford, and GM had a private meeting where all 3 agreed that "racing was taking over their bottom line & something had to be done". So the top brass of all 3 companies arrived at a mutual agreement to stop racing altogether, so they could focus on building cars for the general public. But just before the next season began for nascar, both Ford and Chrysler renegged, with each of them believing "we'll be the only factory backing our cars in the races"............Chevy/GM was the only one who stood behind their decision to keep out of racing for a period. Again: YOU NEED TO RESEARCH THE HISTORY. Then, in '66 or '67, Smokey Yunick decided to run Chevelle's with motors he built himself & planned to race only at the Daytona 500, Atlanta, Charlotte, and Talladega........all out of his own pocket because he had no factory backing. With Curtis Turner as his driver, and his race motor sitting on a stand, they went out for practice with AN EVEN SMALLER shakedown motor ( around 403 or 408 cu in ) during BOTH practice sessions and blew the f*cking doors off all of the big factory backed teams of both Ford AND Chrysler.......to add insult to injury, they kept running that little de-stroked shakedown motor AND WON THE POLE POSITION. Smokey was then ready to install what he called his "Gorilla Motor" for the actual race: his special 427 de-stroked down to around 418 cu in I think it was. But his driver Curtis Turner kept insisting "this little motor we're running right now has already proven itself & still running strong". Smokey was leary of the valve train in that motor because he only designed it for shakedown's. But Turner kept insisting and Smokey relented, on 1 condition: Turner could lead some laps, but then lay back & save the engine for the final 20 laps, then use the extra power this little motor obviously had OVER THOSE BIG CHRYSLER & FORD TEAMS and in his own words: "Pass all of those son's a bitches and win this damned race". Turner was following the plan: he led many of the early laps, allowing other cars to pass him, then he would pass them right back into the lead, then he was laying back as he was ordered. But Smokey's little rag-tag team gave Curtis the worst pit stop time of the entire field which placed Turner near the back of the field. That pissed Turner off, so he floored it. Within several laps, he had the leader, Ford driver Mario Andretti in his sights and timed laps proved Turner was running faster........but then blew up the motor. They were also fastest in practice at the very next event in Atlanta, but Turner crashed during practice and totaled the car. Smokey was so pissed, he backed out for the rest of that season. All of the above humiliated top brass at Ford & Chrysler SO much, that they threatened Bill France before the start of the next Daytona 500: "If you let that bastard enter this race, we're pulling every car we are backing". Bill France kept assuring Smokey that "he would have no problem passing inspection with his Mystery Chevelle for the next 500. HE WAS LYING. With only hours left before practice sessions began, they failed Smokey's frame and many other things. Track promoter Humpy Wheeler stated on camera that never was he so proud of any man in the history of nascar, as he was the year before, when Smokey ran as the independent underdog "in that Chevelle with the little motor" and totally embarrassed all of those big factory back teams by Ford and Chrsyler". So you don't know what the f*ck you're talking about. @@dce428
I have seen the mystery head 427 Z11 impala drag race at the super Chevy show out at Charlotte NC, and yes when it launched the front tires were up in the air, very impressive for such a heavy car!!!❤
You need to watch the video on you tube called..."Old School Impala"! The white '62 409 Impala 4-speed is racing a '63 burgundy Impala automatic in a 3 race grudge match! Real cool video!
My '63 Super Sport 409/425 gave me lots of beautiful views of the sky back in 1967 when I raced it at Tri-City Dragstrip in Saginaw, Michigan, so I can vouch for your claim with the Z11s.
You thumbnail is in error, the Z-11 was no Hemi destroyer, the 426 Hemi wasn’t introduced until part way through 1964.
i believe chrysler did have hemis from 1951-8 timeframe but nit 426 s
Bingo! was thinking the same thing. And the Z11 was no Hemi destroyer, ever!
That is what I thought. Mopar was running Max Wedge engines at the time.
Well do you think guys stopped running this Z-11 427 after one year?
That's probably why Ronnie Sox was running a Z-11 himself. 😉
I'm 72 and have had two 63 Impala's, 64 Ford Galaxie 390 4-spd. 60's was the best years of my life and fun!! Fun times here in the NW. Good video, thanks.
@thomashuteson6191 I had the 65 Galaxie 500 convertible. Interceptor 427 with a 4 speed. Got me into SOOO much trouble on Friday and Saturday nights. I loved that car.
No mopars musta been shitty getting beat all the time
With all due respect to Ford, Chevy and Pontiac...the Ramcharhers Team of the 60s had much success.
I owned a 1966 Impala SS with the 427 four speed. I'm sure it wasn't the same 427 as that limited production 1963 but the 427 fender badge still earned respect.
It was much much better. That old Z11 is just a punched out 348-409 block
The Z-11 427 was based off the 409 The engine had a larger bore with shorter stroke than the later 427 chevy. The Z-11 still had the goofy combustion chamber chevy used on the 348, Ford tried on the MEL engine that turned out to be a flop.
The 409's were quick and nearly unbeatable. Years later in the mid 80's I found a 409 63 Impala for sale. I reluctantly passed it up because it had dropped valves.
@@LanceisLawson The 409 was quick until you run up against a Mopar max wedge or a Thunderbolt! Both Ford and Chevy built lite weight Impalas and Galaxies, they were to too Heavy to be Competitive with lite weight Mopar's and Thunderbolt. Chevy never made a car competitive with Mopar superstocks or the thunder bolt.
stroked- @@Axeman428
Where did the creator of this video get the idea that Ford was afraid of the 427 Chevy? The 409 was not the worlds most unbreakable engine. The 427 Chevy carme into existance because the 409 was hand granade when run at high power settings. It was known even by us kids back in 1963 that the 409's cylinder walls were too thin. This was evident that the 409 used to explode on the big NASCAR ovals. As a drag engine and street engine the 348/409 were good engines. But they used to drop valves. In the mid 60's/early 70's the junk yards were full of Chevy W motors that had almost always landed there because of dropped valves. The Beach Boys helped sell a lot of 409's but at the end of the day the Ford FE was a much tougher engine.
My uncle's loved those early chevys. But when those 409's blew up, they'd replace it with a 327.
As a kid in the 60's I saw a few of them sitting in the dirt. Used to pee in the intake .
I came here for this comment. It seems time adds to amnesia. Long lasting were two words we NEVER used to describe them.
Amen to that, there's always a FE of some variation at any meet I go to, but I couldn't tell you the last time I saw a 409.
the 409s were noted for engine parts breakage. Anything over 5,800 RPMs and you were asking for it.
The BBC didn't replace the W for no reason. However the "parts breakers" as you state is a stretch seeing as the 348 and 409 were in medium duty trucks. If your saying dummies over revved them constantly and blew them up, that I can agree with.
Speaking of rare drag cars, you should do an episode on the Hemi A bodies. Those are some of the coolest factory drag cars to come out of the late 60s.
You'll have to tell him what an "A body" is, first.
@ramblerdave1339 thanks for letting me know. But I think Hemi should narrow the search results for him.
I own a 69 Dart with a factory 440 Mag known as the M code. It's pretty quick too!
Thunderbolt chuckles.
There’s no such thing as a bad 4 speed big block combination. 👍
I would have to agree with you...
I agree. Also, it doesn’t even matter whether it’s a truck or 4 x 4 whatever it comes in big block four speed rules the day torque and more torque only exception road racing
Probably the .osr powerful engine up to 1963 was the Pontiac421SD.
Properly put together with OTCparts from Pontiac they made around 485 hp at a time the Chev 409s were pushing 425 hp the Ford 406 405 hp and the 426 hp wedge engines around 430..
They were expensive to build and very rare but the engines really made hp.
Only 14 were built, I heard from a man who still has one. When properly built they were about the best sounding cars in my area.
Mickey Thompson put an aluminum hemi-head on the 421 Pontiac. I wonder if the car still exists today?
Mickey did the same with his Blue T-Bolt . . . saw that care at a car show 20 years ago with the Aluminum Hemi Head on the 427 Ford. Bore spacing on both motors were close which made it possible.
Back in 1972 my older brother worked dragging cars from peoples back yards to the scrap yard . He would remove the rad. , starters and gen. or alt . . His boss told me if I ever saw one I wanted just pay for it . One day there was a 63 Impala SS with a 409 2 4bbl engine with a 4 speed GM ( munchie ) It had a coating of tree pollen on it > I hand washed it and turtle waxed it and put a battery in it and got it to start . It was knocking and missing on #8 , To me it was a bent push rod and since it was a solid lifter ? This car was black with a red interior . When my brother got home I told him I wanted the car and he said " you aint getting nothen and took a chain and beat the windows out of it . I was only 14 back then but even if it had a knocked rod I know I was able to fix it .
Make that Muncie setup. Not munchie as you called it.
@@scrambler69-xk3kv Down here in Texas we call them munchies
Sounds like your brother was a bit of a jerk. After his boss telling you to pick one and then saying you wasn’t getting it after all.
That's always been my favorite car since it was the first car i ever had. I had this 1963 Chevy SS Impala with a 283 when i was 17 yrs old and man did i love it. Thanks for the video. Take Care
I once owned a black '67 Chevelle 2 door with a 283 that I really loved at the time. This was back in 1980.
I had the '63 Impala SS 2 door in 77-78 when I was in H.S.. My dad bought me this as my 1st car from a neighbor lady for $130 bucks. Now that's a price I'd like to see again. I want another one someday but their just so expensive now I probably will never get one.@@howabouthetruth2157
This 63 Chevy impala is a legend. My dad met this man in person and Seen that car. It's a legend.
The 1964 Dodge Hemi factory lightweights and the 1965 Dodge A990 Hemi cars would be a great addition to the pack! Thanks Brother!
@ 2:19 This was the first time in my life that I've ever heard of a 2 x 2 barrel 348! This was easy to overlook as the rest of the video was great.
Yes, he should have said two 4bbl carbs…
the High performance 348 had 3 two barrels, the 2x4 intake was first used on the first 409 in 1961.
Three two barrel setup. My cousin had a 1960 Bel Air with a 348 trips as they were called.
The Nascar Chevys in 1963 were running an entirely different engine commonly referred to as the "mystery" engine. Junior Johnson drove one of them and they were the fastest cars on the track and would win if they didn't blow up. I went to Darlington for the race in 1963 and was very curious about the "mystery" engine. After the race I and friends saw a flatbed Junior Johnson team truck with an engine on it under a tarp. So we climbed up on the truck and pulled back the cover. The valve covers were wide and straight on both sides unlike the other engine that had curved valve covers on the exhaust side. Two years later you could get two different 427 engines in a street Chevy, one with the curved valve covers or the new engine with straight valve covers. That new engine was the same design as the 396 engines that had canted valves to improve flow.
Your right.
I had the pleasure of owning 3 different 409's back in the day. Those Z11's were the stuff dream are made of. Many thanks.
Never c 1 in my dreams
I agree with you, they were dreams until they broke. This coming from a previous 409/425 Z11 owner.
Never knew about the 409 being punched out to a 427 for these Z11s until now - what a beast! Those old W-blocks were gas-gulping, oil-burning mfs, but they had awesome power 👍👍
They weren’t punched out, they were stroked.
@@SLJ2137694 👌 did a little more research and found that the 409 had been punched out from the 348 - the cylinder walls were too thin to go any bigger
Awesome, for a Chevy. Joke to everyone else.
@@ramblerdave1339 ok Rambler guy lol
@@txmc62 As a former owner of Yenko Turbo Stinger Vega ( #2 ), another Vega, and Racer of a 72 Camaro Trans Am spec Road race car, which lost a cylinder on the 4th lap of the only race I drove it, I have my reasons, for not being overwhelmed by Chevy hype. I can also remember what actually happened in the sixties, unlike most UA-cam creators, and Chevy apologists.
Loved that pic of Grumpy chomping on his cigar while making a quick run.
Thanks for this video! I was too young in the early 60s to really understand all that was going on in the drag racing world. So this was very enlightening! I always loved the 1963 Impalas! In late 1970, my sister gave me a 63 four door 6 cylinder Impala, with a blown motor. After replacing the 6, I found a 327 to put in it. Of course @ 18years old, I had no idea what I was doing, but managed to get the 327 in it and running. BUT, nobody told me I needed to replace the rear end. The 327 had a mild cam in it and it sounded great, and off the line, it was a slow as anything. But once you got it up to about 70mph, and stomped on it, it took off! Due to the fact that the engine had issues, I sold it and started riding motorcycles! :)
The different rear end gearing had nothing to do with six vs. V8 . The deciding factor was if you had a manual or automatic trans or an overdrive . OD typically came with 4.11s . Manuals had either 3.55s or 3.36s , autos had 3.08s or 3.36s depending on what year the car was .
@@bobbrinkerhoff3592
My 66' Chevelle wagon had a 327 Power glide trans with 3:90 gears factory stock. Many years later I swapped in a 350/350 and let me tell you, with that 3:90 gearset in the back, nobody left me sitting at a green light.... Nobody.
@@williamhouk6880 3.90 gears were only available in B-O-P cars as they would only fit in their version of the ten bolt rear end . Chevrolet ten bolts had 3.70s and the twelve bolts had 3.73s as factory equipment .
Thank you for putting this documentary of yet another historic engine that lived only a short time 'back in tha day'.
I drove my new '63 Impala Black on black 425h.p. 409 4-speed 4:11 posi.to the '63 Winternatiomals. And watched Hayden Profit win the A/FX class driving his black 427 Z-11 Impala!
In 1963, NASCAR went to a 427 cubic inch (7 liter actually) limit and the NHRA went along with it and that is the reason why Chevy's 409, Pontiac's 421, MoPar's 413 and Ford's 406 all complied, upgrading to 427 or in the case of MoPar, 426 cubic inch. [5:08] I know, because I was involved. Ultimately, no wedge could ever compete with the better breathing capacity of a MoPar Hemi with Ram Induction, also the light weight advantage of torsion bar front suspension. Case closed...! Those Hemi's performance unfortunately were hindered by handling issues that required some rather awkward solutions that deviated grotesquely with practicalities in street useage and their Muscle Cars became dedicated race cars.
i knew and old racer from back in the 1960s, that had a 427 thunderbolt from 1964 to 1968. When he lost his Ford Support,, Was given a 1968 426 heemi Cuca by Mopar. He said the Mopar support wa sgreat but he said the 426 hemi blew up more times in one year tahn the 4 years he run the 427 high riser.
Thomas: So how was the Hemi's ETA compared to the '62 Plymouth 413 Wedge "Melrose Missile" ETA of just under 12 seconds?
"There was some speculation as to what the 413 would be able to do in stock car drag racing, properly prepped. The guess was between 11.9 and 12.5 seconds and trap speeds of between 110 and 115 mph. Good guess, if a bit low on the speed. “The 1962 Dart stands a very good chance of chewing the feathers of its Super Stock rivals, including those of a certain big Indian! (Pontiac)”
"The “Melrose Missile” ran 11.93 @118.57 on July 15, 1962, becoming the first stocker to break the 12 second barrier. That pretty much explains the basis of the Max Wedge mythology. And there probably isn’t a single unmolested ’62 Plymouth or Dodge 2-door sedan in the world as a consequence. Since we can't post weblinks on YT, Google this word for word and you'll see the article by "Car Life Road Test"-----> "Vintage Car Life Road Test: 1962 Dodge Dart 413 - The Max Wedge Legend Started Here"
I can't see a 413 ci wedge MoPar, running in compliance with the NHRAs SS or SSA classification in th eleven second range back in the early 1960s.~@@USCG.Brennan
@@ThomasDeLello I just replied with the link, but YT already took it down.
Google the title I have above and you'll see the website I'm referring to that shows the 11.9 second 413 Wedge ETA.
The Hemi,pound for pound, was the most efficent engine ever raced in NASCAR.. The Goverment new that Hemi engines were the way to go and had an inverted V-16 Hemi engine that developed 2500 Horse power right after WW2 1945 . It was to be put in fighter planes. It was canned only because the jet engine came on the scene. G.M. even complained to NASCAR in the late sixties about the Hemi being so fast and wanted them banned.Nasscar did ban the Hemi engine and Richard Petty refused to race the whole year. Ford was making their own Hemi and had to can it and use their old conventional engine. It was a thorn in Crysler and fords side. Even to day you can't find a junk yard that has a Hemi engine. You can do so much to them to get a massive amount of Horse power out of a Hemi engine make them in high demand.
Thanks for all your amazing videos.
Would you please talk about Pontiac racing successes or Buick monsters of the late 70's. Typical underdogs and incredible legacy.
Being born in the mid - 1950's I did enjoy the pre - 1971 production engines. Everybody called production engines produced from 1971 up into the mid 1980's - BOAT ANCHORS. If you think the late 70's Pontiac or Buick production cars had good hp or trq, you should go for a ride in a 1970 Pontiac GTO or 1970 Buick GS with the high performance 455 ci engines that had the hp close to the Chevy Big Block LS-5 with the trq close to the Chevy LS-6. After that ride you would also call the post - 1971 production engines - BOAT ANCHORS.
@@michaelfercik3691,
Now that's what I can honestly say "Very well said!" A friend of mine back then, his name was Bill McGillivray, his father owned a Buick Dealership, Bill had a 1970 Buick GS with the Stage II 455 engine, that was one "Maximus Gluteus" hauling MF!
@michaelfercik3691 there were also the 1973-1974 Pontiac Super Duty 455's
In 1964, my uncle took me to the drag race track. I never forgot the '63 Impala that crushed everything. When I got home, I asked my dad, who also had a '63 Impala, why his car wasn't fast? He said, "your mom wouldn't let me get that kinda engine." He had a 283 lol.
I have a 12.61 time slip for what is now my 1962 Impala SS. That my Papa ran in 1964 in Irwindale. The sixty-two is no slouch.
Hemi Dart ❤️❤️❤️❤️
The Chevy W Engine was a beast! However there were no Hemi's at that point but there were the potent 413 and 426 Dodge and Plymouth Super Stock engines.
1963 did have the race only 426 ci Hemi engines and the 426 ci Wedge engines for street production and racing.
First year for the Hemi was mid year 64,
Chrysler, Desoto & Dodge all made Hemi engines between 1951 & 1958. The smallest was Dodge’s 241ci. Largest Chrysler’s 392ci.
Look at what the Pro Stock Mopar engines were chosen until this day.......zero Hemi, unless it has a blower.
Yes, you are correct, they were the Max Wedges, named Ramcharger if it was in a Dodge or Super Stock if it was a Plymouth. 413’s in 62 and 426’s in 63 to mid year 64 when the 426 Hemi was introduced. All the first generation Hemi’s are nice, but not a factor in this conversation.
R code Thunderbolt !! Ford was not scared to race anyone!! Why no comparison?
UA-cam was invented for channels like this! Glad I found you!!
Do the 421 super duty of 1962-63.
This is why Ford came up with the 427 CAMMER...
M O P A R
you are with us...or you are behind us...!!!
Love this one. Grand dad had a 4 door impala, so young i dont remember the year model. But was this generation impala. Good stuff thanks.
There was a 63 Ford 427 and a 64 Ford Fair lane that would stomp the Chevrolet butt in a quarter mile. Plus the Dodge Hemi's.
What a Kool, rare car. Thanks.
My absolute favorite
Dave Strickler was a fantastic driver. I used to see all the Ol'Reliables run at Capitol Raceway Park, Cecil County Dragway and I think he even made it to 75-80 in Monrovia Md. I am mainly referring to the 1961, '62 and '63 Chevy's, not the Camaro or the Corvette. I never saw him miss a gear. I remeber standing near the start line at Capitol and he would launch the car without doing a wheelie but once he shifted to 3rd, the left front wheel came up and possibly the right. Those care were amazing. He had a surplus military 12 V generator driven by a belt used to power the ignition and no Delco generator. The generator was small, black and looked like a DC motor. It gave enough power for the strip to keep the ignition system working well and did not take the horsepower to turn it as an OEM unit needed. Back then, he could drive in tennis shoes and a t-shirt as long as he wore a helmet. The '63 may still be making the nostalgic races such as Beaver Springs but it is granny shifted and not wrung out to max rpm nor a badass burnout. The car is pretty much babied nowadays. and deserves it.
Great videos
THANK YOU!
Great video
My Dad had a 1962 327 Impala SS. Light blue with a white convertible top. He couldn't beat everyone, but it sure was cool.
first, it also had cowl air cleaner, two piece headers, aluminum fenders also and brackets, you only mentioned hood and bumpers. came with a tuning manual on the engine, solid lifters too. later models from the line were seam sealer delete.
Strickler & Jenkins, “The Dodge Boys”, always makes me laugh.
Woo boy yea Chevrolet just bought me dinner and paid for my house. Go white car
These cars where made as copies we know it know. People would order cars with 396 ,couple of options later ,your car had the big motor, better transmission, deleted items, the positraction rearend. Had a Malibu, not a SS, had the 427, 12 bolt ,no power everything, no radio, backseat, it was a 66 Chevy, did not know what I had tags thought where made up, did not have emblems, few trim peaces. Later found out it was what they called a heavy Chevy. Love the video keep it alive.
Wow my Grandpa had #26 it ended up in Indiana and was restored by a chevy dealer back in the 90's the car was a terror at the Alton drag strip the only reason we knew a little about what happened to it was because it got featured in a Super chevy issue in the 90's with a little bio mentioning my grandfather Ray Raymer !
I'm a diehard chevy 409 guy myself. Ive been lucky enough to sit in a real x11 63 impala. Since you've covered the thunderbolt, and the z1.. it only makes sense to cover the swiss cheese super duty pontiac SD421 cars ie: tempest, and catalina's. Another cool thing that many people dont know about is the Candadian pontiac's and how they came from the factory with chevy 409 engines!! lots of cool videos you could do if you wanted too.
Cars back then, I don’t care if it was a GM, a Ford or Mercury, or Dodge, Chrysler,
Plymouth. The engines back then had the hp, and mountains of torque, and unlike todays stuff, they all had styling, I mean look at all the chrome looking like jewelry
Your picture of Ronnie Sox in a Mercury 427 Ford is wild (7:57/10:33)
You realize Mercury's were MADE by FORD RIGHT ?
@@Jerry-up8bk reading my comment suggests I understand. Mercury still had the MEL, maybe should have said 427 FE. Sorry my comment confused you. I was good.
Awesome memories, just keep in mind , NASCAR was basically Ford in 1964, and Poniac used Ford 4-speeds around this time.
An the hemi was banned when it came back it killed ford agian an agian an went drag racing and killed em agian hmmmman now funny cars an top fuel is hemi hmmmmmjust learning some stuff over 4 years been checking 429 boss out now monster to
The T-10 is not a FMC trans. It was made by Borg-Warner.
@@kellynestegard5208 Maybe not in NASCAR, but the BIG 4 speed Poncho's did indeed use FoMoCo Toploaders. Look it up.
@@accobra62 I look and what I find is that Pontiac used Ford 3 speeds, not 4 speeds.
There was a period, about 67-68 where the base 3 speed manual trans in a GTO was “Dearborn Sourced”, which means it was a Ford 3 speed. I would have liked to be a fly on the wall in the meeting where John DeLorean went to his bosses and told them he wanted to put Ford transmissions in a GM car, a potentially career limiting proposition, but he got away with it. Shortly after, Muncie redesigned their 3 speed to handle more torque, but I understand that the Ford 3 speed was the strongest manual transmission ever put in a GTO.
Toe to toe with the Chrysler Hemi eh? Which motor is still around and used today in Ford, Chevy, and Toyota funny cars? The Chrysler Hemi.
I think they are all aftermarket hemis today, Keith black etc.
Chrysler didn’t invent the hemi head
@@kevinsmith1446 And the others didn’t create the internal combustion engine, so what’s your point. Chrysler perfected the hemi head.
Dead right mate...👍 that Kevin Smith sounds like a smart arse...!!!
@@fratzogmopars motorcycles were all hemis long before cars
Please please please. Do a video on the max wedge plymouths and dodges. And the predecessor, the long ram big blocks in 60-61
Watched from Old Harbour Jamaica.
great video on the ‘63 z11!- could you also do a video on the origination of the bill thomas cheetah?tks!!!!
My friend in the 80's in Iowa had a 58 Delray 348 with police interceptor .
Was a black fast beauty.
What you forgot was the reason for the impressive power increase - namely the heads which were completely different from the 348/409 heads --- AND you said that the NASCAR engine run by Junior Johnson was the same 427, not correct, the NASCAR version was called The Mystery Motor, and was actually the forerunner of the Mark IV BBC engine we all know and love today.
There is UA-cam video on an original Mystery Motor as delivered from GM to the NASCAR racers and if my memory serves it made a bit over 500bhp.
And got whipped by a 63 tempest 421 SD
The “mystery motor” was never competitive in NASCAR. Chevrolet didn’t really win anything in nascar until about the mid 70s.
Mystery motor liked to blow up.
I was going to ask this guy who really doesn't know what he's talking about if this 427 still used the 409's goofy combustion chamber/cylinder head....but you cleared it up. Thanks
@@jesse75 Still do!
I've seen the R-code Galaxie and "swiss cheese" Catalinas but I've never seen a Z11 in the metal yet.
would like to see an episode on the Super Duty Pontiacs.
well-done
Pity you had to cover all this narration with Mopars and Fords while talking about Chevrolets.
its a pity chevy whined so much about everything they got rules changed in their benefit. pity yall still follow that garbage today. chevy should have gone bust in the 80s
@@postalsucks9548thought they did & got bailed out with Chrysler.
The 58 at the beginning has a small block fan shroud!
What about a 1963 Pontiac 421 Super Duty Tempest?
Nice video... the only thing I'd expand upon was Ford's first plan was to lighten the 427 R-code galaxy, but not being able to do it; THAT's what caused them to dive into the Thunderbolt package; 1 year later than the '63 Impala...
Ford Did build a lite weight Galaxy but they were no match for the Max wedge cars because of teh Weight difference. Ford was not Concerned with Chevy they wanted to beat the Mopar's.
FORD DID Lighten the 63 Galaxie 427 R-code before they built the THUNDERBOLT! What makes YOU think FORD would be UNABLE to lighten them ? DUH!
I want that car and I'm going back to 1963 to get one.
Please feature the very limited 1963 Pontiac Tempest entries...Beswick and a few others. Thanks
Another neat and rare street drag car was the 1968 Dodge Dart GTS 383 4 spd from the factory - not a lot of people are aware of it :)
There was also a 68 Dart GSS. Mr. Norms Grand Spaulding Dodge in Chicago took the GT and put a 440 in it and rebadged it as a GSS, (Grand Spaulding Special).
My best friend's dad had one w. Auto in HS. 70/71
my best friend Rob (RIP) bought one when he was 15 years old for $1700- his youngest sonnow has the car -all original :)
@@rogerdodrill4733
They never would of put the big blocks into the dart if not for Mr Norm- the engineers at Chrylsler didn't thinkit was possible :) Cheers
@@fratzogmopars
@@guyski666 Yep, and the engineer at Grand Spaulding Dodge who was able to do it was Gary Dyer.
Ford had the Fairlane Thunderbolt with a 427 cubic inch cammer which wasn't afraid of s***
the cammer refers to a sohc 427 which the thunderbolt never got. galaxies got those
@@postalsucks9548 my bad they made a side Oiler as well the point I was making is the Ford 427 made as much power or more than the Chevy
@@markweymouth6368 all good. we on the same side of chevy belonging in the trash right lmao
Poor dodge and ford fanboys. The Chevy engines were so fast running ford spent 2 million dollars trying to catch it. Chevy was selling so many cars it was forced to stop racing and thus engine development. If ford or dodge had the same set of circumstances facing them their engines would have faired far far worse than good old Chevy! 8:00 8:00
@@user-yr2vn4ml9l nice to fantasize keep your dreams alive
I witnessed a super stock race in early 1964 where a Z-11 defeated s field of Thunderbolts and Maxie cars. The Z car was Ronnie Sox’s old car and Ronnie ran against his old car with his new 1964 427 Comet. The old Z beat the newly winner of the Winternationals in the final runoff. Great times back then.
Subbed.
Before we get started I want to say I had the same color 1963 Chevy Impala SS with the Z-11 package, the only difference was I had the 4.11 Posi rear end, I was just 18 years old at the time, this is another story I could share with you. I had a lot of fun with that car.
Small point of order - in 1963, Mopar was not campaigning HEMI engines. The bad boy was 426 Max Wedge. The Thunderbolt wasn't until 1964, which was when 426 HEMIs hit the tracks, as well.
How about a video on the. Swiss Cheese Pontiacs?
Ford might've been scared, but Chrysler said 'Oh yeah? Watch THIS!' Haha! I'm a GM guy, but Chrysler had the drag car scene on LOCK right from the beginning.
Everybody forgets to mention the "Corvette"
@@michaelfercik3691 The L88 and ZL-1 Vettes were just lunacy, no doubt about it. But how about the '68 Hemi Darts/Barracudas? Haha!
a guy that knows history i love it!
Ford wasn't scared at all. They came out with their own version of a Hemi called the Cammer. Just like the Chrysler 426 Hemi, they ate Chevys for breakfast. Even Chevrolet's much-hailed 427 rat motor, which to be fair was no slouch that could push the 500HP line, couldn't compete in terms of HP with the Hemis that pushed into the 650HP range. It's simple. Hemis move more air than a wedge. Even a wedge that trys to compromise between a wedge and a Hemi like the porcupine head of the BBC. More air, more power. End of story.
@@fredflintstone505 The cammers weren't much like Hemis (better in theory but not executed well enough for any real benefit), and the L88s and ZL-1s in the light Camaros and Corvettes they came in were absolutely the fastest factory drag cars out there aside from the 1-year-only Hemi Dart and Barracuda factory lightweight cars. The Hemis and Cammers saw more success in stock car racing than drag racing after the early days, and both were essentially banned from it pretty quickly. Hemis then returned to dragstrip dominance while the Ford Cammer just sorta disappeared from motorsports (unless, did they maybe stick around in some road racing applications? I feel like they might have been prevalent in like Can-Am or something).
Have you done the stripped down belvedere
I had a 65 442, got 9 tickets in 6 months... Walked for a year.
Bless your heart!! When I was 5 (1965), my Dad bought the F85 version, with the premium burning 330, oversquare motor, and the console shifted automatic. What a fun sleeper that car was!! As a little one, I was ALWAYS UNDER DADS FEET, enjoying every cool thing he had to show me!! My mother was an Olds freak too!! Grew up near Woodward Ave, in the Motor City, so burned lots rubber in my younger days!! Peace out.
Me too.
The guy below me is right, I was at Indy nats 62-66 max-wedges were 3 4 tenths quicker than the Z-11, best strickler could muster was 12.13, their only hope was in A/FX. Late 64 the race hemi was available and every one else was just chasing tail lights.
And then Jenkins with a 327 Nova trailered 50 hemroids only to Unnessasarily red light the Championship away . The " small block" had those mopars beat .
@@bobgyetvai9444 your right but that wasn't till 1970, we are talking 63 64, no 427 chevy or ford beat the max wedges or hemis in those years. Now further there was only 3 races back then, winter nats at Pomona, spring nats at Bristol, US nats indy, mopar ruled the only class that counted that was super stock, if your car wasn't fast enough for that class you ran the FX calasses. Now because there was only 3 national events, to make money all these guys would match race all over the country, thats a time with open trailers and you slept in the tow car, truck, now at these races you would see all these guys adding a little nitro to those engines .with this you see chevys and fords be more competitive.
@@bobgyetvai9444 jenkins, grumpy was crew chief on old reliable, Z11 63 light weight 427 chevy with Dave Strickler which won the AFX class at 63 nationals with a 12.13, I was there.
@@bobgyetvai9444 also don't forget Bob Glidden small block ford powered pinto in 71 running 8.80s amazing.
@@marshalltodd2241Bob Glidden was driving a Mustang in 1971 and the best times out of any of the cars was no better than 9.8 seconds which is nowhere near the 8.8’s you state as happening in 1971.
Have you considered doing a show on the 68 don groether cudas. The baddest car ive ever seen in person and felt it run through the street.
Back in the late 50's @ 18 years old my brother and I built 30" equal length Headers for all the muscle cars up into the 80's. we were the first to cut the fender wells to allow the long tube pipes to pass over the frame into a revers cone collector. this style was copied by the compition in the Header wars, many sponsored Super stocks had Belanger Bros Headers on them, but were bought off $howing other manufacture Header Decals instead...
You couldn't get patent back in the 50s?
@2:18 dual 4 bbl
Can you vover ghe Max Wedge Dodge and Plymouths 1982 through 1964 please.
I watched when 3 1964 Ford Cammers took the Trophy home repeatedly. All were impressive.
Can u do video on the 440 powered Dart? I believe they only produced 50 of them
The Z11 was not a bored out 409.the Z11 had the stroke of 3.65..from 3.50 for the 409... the z33 427 mystery motor.had the same bore and stroke as the z11 that was the NASCAR motor. The z11and the z33 were two different motors. The only thing they shared was the bore and stroke. Nothing interchanged.so the 409 the z11 and the Z33 mystery motor all had the same bore... He forgot about the aluminum and fenders and the radiator support and the rear bumper and other other brackets were aluminum. The whole front end was aluminum. And Pontiac did the same thing
Never knew the Z11's history. Thanks! Musta suct dealing with those goofy X frames in a drag car.
1963 Mopar Hemis? I’m almost certain they were powered by 426 wedge engines, the Hemi not being available until later.
In 63 at Kansas city Dragstrip a Dallas Chevy dealer Mr Friendly Chevrolet raced a Z11 and crushed all the mopar beasts. I got a chance to look at the engine...They called it the rat mystery engine because of the ratical valve location. It had straight valve covers.
I had 2 63 Impalas when I was a teenager,one had a 283 and turbo fire stickers on the valve covers😂 I thought that was the shit at 15.
I never knew that this car existed. Or that the 409 motor was increased to 427. That engine had the weird angle at the top that wasn't 90 degrees like all other engines that I know of. I always thought the Ford Thunderbolt was the top drag car back then, but sounds like Chevy had a competitive Impala in this car.
The full size Chevy 427 had no chance against the thunderbolt! the thunder bolt had the advantage of being lite and also it used teh 427 high riser, this engine was the engine that NASCAR ban, the same tim,e the Hemi was ban. Chevy couldn't win any races so Walley parks NHRA, and Bill France NASCAR both penalized both Mopar and Ford.. Mopar boycotted and ford just built a different engine to race.
This was when Ford built the 427 Cammer. Mopar Cried so the engine was ban before it even raced a single race.
Chevy has never dominated the drag racing scene. They had some success but never dominated any class
Yes you're right.... Recorded history
Ok what about Lee Shepard? Gliden in a Ford and chevy was Shepard. It was the greatest rivalry in NH RA history. You need to read some more books.
@@rodneydukes7616 it was a great rivalry and it was back an fourth but still yet Chevrolet never dominated drag racing on any level. If you read these books you speak of you would know this
Chevrolet dominates Nascar with most wins by leeps and bounds. What's that girl name that has Camaro Erica Enders pro stock 47 wins 500 Ci Chevrolet. Catch me if you think you. Nascar Chevrolet most successful titles 42 with Ford in secound with Ford with17 titles. In 72 seasons. CHEVROLET u guys are jealous.
@@nobodyjones3624 Chevrolet dominated right now Don't they. 500 CI big block Camaro.
The Pontiac trophy A would be a great cover .
Since I watched in person many of the 1963 races at ATCO raceway in New Jersey I would like the author of this article to note that Mopar 426 Hemi's did not appear until 1964, not 1963. And I would like to point out that Mr. 4 Speed, Dave Strickler was beat many times by 426 Max Wedge Dodges and Plymouths. Oh, and I forgot to mention Union Park Pontiac’s SD 421 Catalina. And did I mention Arnie Beswick? Now don't get me wrong I was a Old Reliable fan, but to say Mopar’s & Ford’s were terrorized by the 427 Chevy Mystery Engine isn’t even close to the truth. Fun fact I became a Mopar fan because the Mopar’s were consistently kicked GM’s Butt.
My father raced a 390hp 427 in his 66 Impala SS.
He had been in drag racing for several years before he bought his car to race.
He still owned the car until the mid 90s.
One thing he always stated.
“When the factory backed Mopar guys showed up. You could just go ahead and load your car back on the trailer.”
To this day he talks about Dick Landy’s car. He said there was nothing like watching that car wind up and leave.
Don Grother was another one my father really enjoyed talking about.
Coincidentally I ended up working for the engine shop that build Don Grothers engines later on.
That shop is currently toy closing its doors.
i would agree with all you said, thats why ford came out with the boss 429 to compete with the hemi and then dodge came up with that bird body that looked ridiculous but was effective for them
Were they front wheel drive?! 0:46
I gotta feeling these videos are generated by AI, no human was involved. The programmers last job was perfecting the self driving feature on Tesla’s
Those X frame Chevies would twist into a pretzel if you let em. The 427 Rat is where they really started making serious power, but that wouldn't see production until 66.
The early 60s Max Wedge Chrysler cars.
You'll never lose it in a parking lot, that's for sure.
Hate to tell you but the Ford Talladega won more races than the Superbird and Daytona combined.
The winged warriors Dodge Daytona and Plymouth Superbird were tearing it up in 69-70 until NASCAR banned the cars. Those Cyclones and Talladegas were great cars too.
@@fratzogmopars you are ignoring the fact that in those years the Talladegas won 29 races, both winged cars combined only won 14. You are dead wrong.
@@KevinTurner-hr1wg Hahaha. That may be so, but My Dad can beat your Dad!
@@robertsteele7672 wow, did you think that up all by yourself? Or did you get help from the other kids licking the windows with you on the short school bus?
Some tuners like royal bobcat modified the GTO
Pontiac made a swiss cheese car, the 421 super duty Catalina aluminum body panels, large holes drilled in the frame, no carpet, 1 seat no heater core.
Then back to Chevrolet...
ZL1 Camaro
Aluminum motor stripped of all things
Same for ZL1 Corvette
A hand built aluminum motor set you back 5,000 plus the cae
With early days if go fast with very little
I had the pleasure of sitting in, and my picture taken sitting in white 63. Me in the Impala are on my Facebook page, but who is still around to know what it was
and here's the "Rest of the Story" the Z-11 was the VERY FIRST A/Stock NHRA class stockers to EVER go into the 11's...if I remember correctly, it was at Irwindale in California.....I had a 63' 409 SS....4-speed, positrac 409 Impala w/bucket seats, and it was white...it would run high 13's with street tires.....OnWard......
Yeah....I wouldn't call it a Hemi destroyer....🤣🤣 Good luck with that
In acceleration?......without a blower?.....the Hemi sucks