No lol, they are delusional, the crystals don’t emit these frequencies and if they do it’ll be weak asf and like alpha radiation, you’d need to eat the crystal and have it travel close to where our consciousness is for it to actually effect us, put simply it’s horribly unlikely unless a stupid set of events actually happened, basically impossible but maybe possible in terribly unlikely events
One thing I learned when getting a degree in cognitive science was that so far no one really knows how all the different brain regions sync up their activity to create a coherent experience of the present moment. If they operated solely by electrochemical signaling for processing and data transmission, then our sensory experiences would be delayed by up to _several seconds,_ which is not at all how our perception of time works. Even the modern paradigm that "experience is a controlled hallucination" where your experiences are predictions based on pre-cached expectations "loaded in" ahead of time is a bit hand-wavey and, again, doesn't line up with how fast humans can respond to surprise stimuli. It would make SO MUCH MORE SENSE if the disparate processing regions of the brain all synchronized and communicated via some kind of quantum optical or even entanglement phenomenon, where the info of what is being sensed and thought "now" is correlated at the speed of light rather than the ludicrously slow speed of nerve impulses. This is a _mind-blowing_ development that could potentially solve a ton of big mysteries in neuroscience.
I don't know if this is relevant info - this isn;t my stubject so I only glanced at the video and comments and something you said caught my attenstion, about our sensory percetptions being delayed by several seconds if operated by electrochemical signalling ... Last year I had a stroke and the first sign was that everything I spoke out loud (mosty swearing and panicking lol) was not audible to me but then "replayed" as if off a tape recorder about 2 or 3 seconds later - almost as if my brain contained a sort of "delay line" as used in recording studios etc. It intrigued me how my brain could be "storing" a piece of audio or perhaps simply delaying it's progress. The other symptoms were then a completely dead arm and being unable to say names or short sentences without someting completely different coming out - which was kinda amusing in a way, although also very frustrating and scary of course - luckilly I mostly recovered within a day or two with drugs to help disperse the blood clot as I understand it. Hope this is in some way useful information.
This makes me think so much of intuition, gut feeling, etc and how even in my own life i have now learned to take my first instinct even often above careful logical reconsiderations. Is that gut feeling, your quantum consciousness? And later your “thinking” brain comes in? Also I wonder what role the pineal gland and the theories about calcification play into any of this, if at all. Anecdotally, I will say that my conciousness has expanded a lot in the past 5yrs, and I was for a time supplementing tryptophan and eating a ton of turkey 😂
As someone who unfortunately has been “put to sleep” over 45 times for a huge number of life saving surgeries…I wonder what happened to me during my “trips”….🙃
@@sabbathguy1 phase in phase out,is a part of our mind dreaming right now that running in the back and its all flips polarity I try to keep it basic and work up with simple questions.Before jumping off
Anesthesia affects the function of the pineal gland by interfering with the states of falling asleep (similar to melatonin, but much stronger). Then the center of consciousness ("self") moves away from the sensory system and moves towards the consciousness of a pictorial dream (which does not necessarily leave memories).
Excellent report, Mr. Petrov. I had been planning on checking out the work between Penrose and Hameroff, and you've given us a basis with which to view that work. The work that many physicists and philosophers are doing on consciousness may help humanity transcend our egocentric problems. Thank you for this video.
This is a fascinating subject and may lead to a deeper understanding of biological brain function and consciousness. I am cautious however to ascribe any implications just yet. Human beings are stubbornly resistant to positive adaptations of behavior. Some of the most intelligent people in the world suffer with Narcissism and Psychopathy rigid and lifelong pathologies for which there is no cure. Self awareness does not always translate into positive change.
I remember coming back from general anesthesia (nose surgery, could not breathe properly) and I can't remember the instant I lost consciousness, but coming back from it was traumatic as I didn't understand who I was, where I was or what was happening. For a couple of minutes I felt I just came to exist in that moment and every sensation was shocking. I had to be told who I was and what was happening and I just had to accept it. I felt like dreaming for a few hours or days. I still feel everything is a dream. Consciousness is so strange, amazing and intriguing, really.
Some Buddhists schools contend consciousness itself is an illusion. They practice using attention in ways to create analogous states of realization to what you may have experienced. I find consciousness super fascinating as well. It's something everyone has with them but so few examine closely.
Buddha was the only one can explain very detail about consciousness. I am only a layman in Buddhism. I can only understand it. But cannot show you. You have to find it out as a tool by your body .
May have to do with what anesthetic was used, and how that affects the brain. What particular area/function of the brain took longer to come back vs. some others (access to long-term memory may have lagged). Which may result in a particular sort of sensations as you come back around. Also your general state of "systemic deterioration" at the time you wake up may have an effect. If you have just survived a heavy injury, or there's a background of infection being treated, your congnitive performance may be very weak even without the anesthesia. In my case, the first total anesthesia correlated with a far progressed appendicitis - and I was "put to sleep" for an apendectomia done the old way (had about 7 stitches). Reportedly it was rather messy. And I was weak (low blood pressure) for a few days afterwards = whenever they'd try to stand me up, I'd black out. My second total anesthesia was during a somewhat complicated dental operation, where I was in no serious systemic problem. The surgeon has just removed a "buried" tooth from my lower jaw bone. I remember slowly waking up, thinking "oh wow, today I'm going for the operation. Oh wait, I already went for it, I recall lying down on the operating table, having a chat with the people about the theatre... but I don't have my jaws stitched together with wire for support, I can move my lower jaw freely... oh wait, there are some soft stitches on the gum... woow! True wizards those surgeons". And then my vision gradually surfaced from the sleepy dark hazy gloom, and then I puked a handful of blood... that I'd probably previously swallowed, while lying down intubated / unconcsious.
I swear the only reason I click on anything to do with consciousness in relation to quantum physics is when Anton makes a video about it. And it didn't disappoint
quantum mysticism is so stigmatized by all the pseudoscientific snake oil salesmen selling similar pitches minus the overwhelming evidence, so it's understandable that people are hesitant to entertain the idea, but this really is our best shot at explaining subjective experience
I'd say open up a bit a listen to some other people on it but I totally understand that it's very easy to go in widly different directions when it comes to topics like this. The people who angrily try to deny this to protect their worldview should be treated with the same skepticism as the New Age types that abuse the word "quantum" to fit everything they believe.
Anton, you are the ONLY youtuber, who has the capability to present in a really comprehensible way complex studies and scientific papers from quite vast array of domains, which at least should make you much more confident when you are promoting your channel. Thank you for all of your work !!!
Not the ONLY for sure. I regularly watch many channels ranging from Cosmetics to Physics who do a good job presenting research in common language. Sabine Hossenfelder, Technology connections are 2 that come to mind immediately.
Yeah this video was a major flex on his abilities. Micro tubials always leaves me a bit confused. He explained this quite well and even a a guy with a ged from the doc can understanf!
@@Swanicorn Professor Jean Bricmont debunked Sabine Hossenfelder's mangling of the Bell's Inequality nonlocality experiments. Also Hossenfelder contacted Professor Raymond Pierrehumbert to correct Hossenfelder's admitted error on abrupt global warming. I'm glad Hossenfelder is finally addressing the ecological crisis - even if she is doing so too late and she had already admitted to errors on the subject. Most physicists ignore the abrupt global warming crisis as biological annihilation even though Joseph Fourier first published on the topic writing that the "effects of human industry" would heat up Earth - two hundred years ago!! Wow two hundred years of scientists being corporate brown-No$ers while ignoring the empirical truth that Fourier first established.
Way too broad of a claim with way too many assumptions at play. But everything has to be the "most" or "greatest" these days - nothing matters if it can't be ranked.
@@JH-pt6ihyes, it’s the hyperbolic language required to draw attention in media (clickbait, top 10, BEST or WORST ‘x’ ever) creeping into common language. I personally find it to be very off-putting. It’s like marking all your outgoing office emails as high priority; After a while, people get annoyed or just stop taking you seriously.
I recently heard a doctor explaining that it was recently discovered that when someone is made unconscious by anesthesia, their different areas of the brain all remain active. The difference is, they all cease to communicate with each other.
I don't want to think too much about the implications here... I suppose the formation of the pain/fear reaction is inhibited by the disconnection from sensory input.
One thing I learned when getting a degree in cognitive science was that so far no one really knows how these different brain regions all sync up their activity to create a coherent experience of the present moment. If they operated solely by electrochemical signaling for processing and data transmission, then our sensory experiences would be delayed by up to _several seconds,_ which is not at all how our perception of time works. Even the modern paradigm that "experience is a controlled hallucination" where your experiences are predictions based on pre-cached expectations "loaded in" ahead of time is a bit hand-wavey and, again, doesn't line up with how fast humans can respond to surprise stimuli. It would make SO MUCH MORE SENSE if the disparate processing regions of the brain all synchronized and communicated via some kind of quantum optical or even entanglement phenomenon, where the info of what is being sensed and thought "now" is correlated at the speed of light rather than the ludicrously slow speed of nerve impulses. This is a _mind-blowing_ development that could potentially solve a ton of big mysteries in neuroscience.
@@MarshmallowRadiation I appreciate your insights. You are someone who has a deeper understanding of the subject than many of us. My reaction to this new research was along the same lines you expressed in your comment. It just makes so much sense. When I tried to imagine the extended time it takes for each axon terminal to physically release a neurotransmitter chemical across a synaptic cleft to find and pair with a dendrite receptor, it never made sense to me that this, alone, was the source of conscious thought. It's estimated that for a single "thought" to form, one hundred billion neurons and one thousand trillion synapses are working. This seems incredibly slow to be able to experience the world and make conscious decisions within a reasonable period of time. We would all be moving at the pace of sloths. It would take FOREVER to get the cafe mocha you ordered. ;) Maybe this research is pointing the way to some great breakthroughs.
@@thisisreallife5086 @MatshmallowRadiation I'm not so sure about the idea of quantum entanglement being used in our brains/bodies, but could be some quantum optical phenomenon probably. Whatever the phenomenon is, I'm not sure this change anything about consciousness and cognition in general. The principle will still be communications between different sensory and various brain areas and evolution made sure to use the fastest method avaialble whether it is with or without quantum. So yes I get your point that without quantum brains would be too slow and we could not achieve consciousness, this can be the case. Would be funny that a certain speed of information is required for consciousness.
@@MarshmallowRadiationI only have limited knowledge from studying medicine, but for me it seems like 99% of our actions are regulated by the evolutionary "old" parts of our brains that are probably not very different from day a deer and therefore are quite fast. The new parts seem to be not connected in a way that slows down the old part, but just adapting the outcome by giving small modulations
Hey Anton. Would be awesome to hear from a scientific standpoint about the structural similarities between the tryptophan, psilocybin and DMT molecules and how they relate to the perception of reality and consciousness of the human being.
It was dismissed out of hand because "quantum" can't happen in the warm and wet of life. Then they found quantum effects in plants during photosynthesis.
I've been following this theory for years; Orchestrated objective reduction (Orch OR) and Stuart Hameroff's micro-tubule theory which I accepted as very likely how we interface our brains to a quantum level of consciousness. Research this further if you haven't seen his stuff, fascinating.
@@jackkrell4238thank you. Chat is giving Chrystal healing energy right now. How could these quantum states bubble up? Not only that, but how could they surpass the noise by the chaotic media. Not saying that they don't have an effect on protein fold etc etc, but though is such a more complex thing that involves pathways, hormones, environment etc etc etc. People trying to bring quantum mechanics to neuroscience need to reflect about their own mortality and insignificance, we are not special, just part of the universe.
@@jtjames79 Think entanglement of selenium was suggested, due to it's less difficult to entangle and been deficient of it seems to have detrimental effects on consciousness. Also explains how been knocked out works with the entanglement been disrupted.
Went out to smoke, watched 5mins of this and then paused it and went inside. About 10 mins later my 5 year old asked me “what makes us be alive?” 😳 Edit: I had my headphones in watching this on my phone
Anton, your videos & content are wonderful. You are thorough, careful, and thoughtful. No hyperbole, just a methodical breakdown of the state of our knowledge & also what we don’t know or understand. Thank you so much.
Actually Stuart Hameroff has already done experiments with ultrasound. The greatest increase in electromagnetic conductance of the microtubulins is via ultrasound as proven by Anirban Bandyopadhyay's corroboration of the Hameroff-Penrose model of quantum consciousness. Ultrasound is based on piezoelectric collagen - so if people just practiced tai chi or yoga with standing exercises that cause a parasympathetic rebound this will activate the microtubules of the brain also. I have a free training manual as my first upload - oldest video - for details.
This is some of the most interesting stuff happening at the moment! At the moment, we mostly see quantum stuff as some distant thing, unrelated to daily life. If it does turn out it's practically related to EVERYTHING we as human beings experience, it could change a lot.
My thoughts exactly. CCC seems such a rational and brilliant explanation. Cant wait for all the mass to go so we shrink to dimensionless resized big bang plus 1. I may not live to see it but I hope to see more evidence acknowledged via these supermasssive black hole collision left overs from he last era.
Sir Penrose surely came up with a lot of interesting, convincing and maybe even plausible ideas about consciousness but I wonder if any one of them is remotely close to the truth and if it's just brilliant yet still human mind coming up with the ideas compatible with current knowledge trying to cope with it's own mortality and the thought that death could just be an absolute end 🤔 I as a fellow human being want to believe his ideas really badly but uncertainty about petty much most fundamental things like the very nature of consciousness or infiniteness of the universe (spatial and/or temporal) fills me up with great deal of scepticism 😞 Just food for thought here
The current issue of Science magazine has an article about "vaults" within cells. Vaults are a recently recognized type of organelle that is apparently VERY abundant in cells. They're also made of repeated rings of molecules, including RNA, resulting in a crystalline structure. The thing about vaults is that after being studied for decades nobody knows what they do. They strike me as very similar to these microtubules discussed in this video in terms of composition and structure though vaults are sort of barrel-shaped, not tubular.
In a few years we will discover even more and then will find out that it’s everything in our body and around us that is responsible for our consciousness idk
Luckily none of what you said matters a single iotas worth since every term you used is more than not likely to exist only when observed, thus nothing what you said is actually real in a real reality sense . The human body is an scientific marvel (golgi machines anyone) but things like microtubules etc won't be rising consc, only in penroses wet dreams, and the entire basis of trying to understand consc or theorize about it with the constraint of it has to be an emerging property of some material thing, But the problem is there has never been or hown any scientifically acceptable evidence of a hypothesis or even anya way to actually study,test or even mathematically trying to explain how, why and what happens at this emergency. And there likely never will be. Last 30 years have produced a lot of (i'm inclined to say pseudoscience as that has been used against many undeserving people, but i respect more intelligent people than me too much to do so and most of these people are actual geniuses, just deluded ones bc they took what schools "taught" them as a religious person would take Gods word and seem unable to shake their antiquated way pf thinking, likely because of grant money awarded to mostly stupid shit and studies that wont rock the Status Quo. Bill gates foundation funds a shit ton of this. so your opinion on him might change you view on other topics he has been altruistically philanthropizing their studies, careers and grant money.) It's a crazy world and the only way to exist within is to take everything with a huge grain of salt that's said on any platform doing it for the money, Unless you are one of the 80% part of humanity unable to critically think, then tough luck for you.REfering to milgram findings if it wasnät clear
Anton has the only videos that I watch all the way through the subscribe and support pitches at the end because I always want to see that adorable goofy smile and wave goodbye. He’s such a sincere, sweet person. Thank you for making us all smarter, Anton!
Considering that photosynthesis in plants is now established to be a quantum phenomenom, in a warm and wet environment, it was no stretch for Roger Penrose to hypothesize consciousness is also a quantum phenomenon. As for computers being conscious at some point, Penrose has pointed out that any computer program butts up against Godel's Incompleteness theorem.
Godel's Incompleteness Theorem is general: it applies to classical computers, quantum computers, and even humans. It's obviously not preventing consciouness in humans, so why would it prevent it for computers?
@mouduge We actually don't know if it applies to humans or not. Gödel didn't think so nor does Penrose. You say it's general but it specifically applies only to things bound by first order logic. That we created/discovered first order logic as well as the incompleteness theorems and came up with the definitions of consistency and completeness have been held as evidence that we are not so bound.
Yeah except photosynthesis and every other discovered bioquantum interaction requires relatively large biological systems to effectively make use of quantum effects. Quantum consiousness is still a complete joke.
I m a psychology student. This is so interesting, my two favourite topics collided with each other. Thanks wonderful Anton for such a great explanation of the paper.
If our cell phones use a few quantum tricks, its not unreasonable to assume that a near indescribably more sophisticated machine might use a few too. Since we're both electric powered.
They take advantage of quantum effects in most of the processors, electron tunneling and what have you. This does not make them quantum processors. Engineering with an understanding of quantum level implications is still just regular engineering.
we all do it,I can q-entangle with a dog or cat lmao I have before .It's using the correct methodology not just gonna happen it does and can but to do it topnotch I mean perfected the process .And I cant share it case it to simple but time consuming.Its all about the sequences and processes timing instinct being yourself lets say,animals have to be in tune with nature
Fantastic work Anton. You are doing a signal service to a global community. Inspiring thought (and not just informing) is the greatest art. And your near perfection of this great art makes you a Great Teacher. So you are a real Guru. A light bringer. Keep trucking old boy👍👌
Anybody ever been put under with propofol? I find the experience disturbing. As soon as the IV starts, you stop existing. As soon as the IV stops, you start existing. No going to sleep. No waking up. Zero sense of having existed at all. I have been knocked out with a variety of anesthetics in my time, propofol is the only one that I guess you could say, upsets me existentially.
How do you know you are the same you that went under the anesthesia? Like, what if your consciousness literally died when you were put to sleep and was replaced by something else when you woke up? It's the same problem that happens with teleportation. How do you know you didn't die and were recreated instead of actually teleported? It's also the same problem that happens when you go to sleep every night. The lapse in stream of awareness means that you have no direct evidence that you are the same you that you were yesterday. Next time you need anesthesia, just remember: you're probably gonna die and when "you" wake up, you'll never know. Because you'll be dead.
That's strange. I have found it really relaxing and enjoyable. Though I do have multiple psychiatric disorders (ADHD, MDD, PTSD), and also am in quite a bit of pain every day. It's like a little taste of what death will be like. It made me way less afraid of dying, if it did anything.
@@Brenden.smith.921 During sleep you don't so much lose consciousness as much as your consciousness gets heavily supressed, it's still there just not able to do anything.
My grandmother has been a nurse all her life and my grandfather has alzheimer's. She has this theory that anesthesia actually worsened my grandfather's dementia / alzheimer's and might have even caused it. As a result she avoids any type of medical procedures that include anesthesia because she's afraid of losing herself. This video really makes her story make a lot of sense.
It is true….theres research about it out there! Just think if they let this known👉no one would be having any medical intervention & the $ loss👉they will not release that information
Consciousness exists outside the body entirely, but quantum physics plays a huge role in choosing the reality you experience. Very nice to see this subject approached more!
@@georgecurington8156NDE'S, ESP research done by Parapsychologist like Russel Targ, Dean Radin, OBE's, SDE (Shared-Death Experiences) and so on. You cannot even provide evidence for your foundational claim. There is no evidence proving that consciousness is emergent property of brain, All you materialistic and skeptics provide evidence is only evidence of correlation and causation. Lmao.
@georgecurington8156 The double slit experiment has been done many times, using not just light, but also showing that molecules demonstrate quantum mechanics properties. It is strange to think that each of the particles that make our world has a probability distribution associated with it, but every experiment seems to confirm quantum mechanics. ✌️
An Indian scientist Dr. Mukhopadhya has shown that the microtubules in neurons are arranged in bundles of different lengths; and they react quantum mechanically to different bands of wave lengths depending on their lengths. Please look at this paper.
I feel our brains have different frequencies for every feeling and emotion. Not only that but that they come to us through the electron clouds within the mts by the benzine molecules in them. Also that that is the way memory works. By searching our brains for feelings attached to memories, and not the other way around, where it can then cascade to more memories.
@@mikepatnode4407I have always felt like my memory relies more on remembering specific “feelings” “energies” or “vibes” (none of those quite describe it to me, but they are the closest) then intuiting the details of the “real” memory based on parts of that feeling aligning with certain objects/people/words etc. Ive only tried to articulate that a few times but didn’t make much sense to anyone lmao, good to know I’m at least not the only one with that view on memory.
If quantum effects provide computation advantages, it seems logical that evolution would use these advantages. In fact, if quantum computation is the huge advance that some technologists claim it is, then it would be odd indeed if evolution did NOT make use of it. The universe is demonstrably "non classical" so why should brains be restricted to classical mechanics?
Just because something is advantageous doesn’t mean evolution will produce it- some things are too complex or would require too high a tradeoff to develop. A great example is wheels. No animals on the planet use wheels for locomotion, because it’s just impossible for them to work biologically. You can’t make an infinitely rotating joint that doesn’t disconnect somewhere. Another example is lasers. If you could cook prey with lasers, that would be pretty awesome and advantageous!! Unfortunately, the things that would need to be developed first to then create a bio laser are initially detrimental, and so evolution will almost never take that route.
@@phloopy5630 Well, bacteria have rotating flagella. The structure that drives them is known as a motor. So that seems to be the example that invalidates your notion that "You can’t make an infinitely rotating joint that doesn’t disconnect somewhere." And I don't see that there would be an advantage to wheeled beetles vs beetles with legs, so I don't think evolution would select wheels instead of legs. Evolution finds advantage, and I don't think that wheels provide that advantage.
@@phloopy5630 but nature has produced tasers, quite efffective ones at that. Laser woild only be to add some range to it 🤷♂️ See ya next saturday! *turns and leaves running*
@@billmilosz I’ve looked up the rotating flagella, and as it turns out, the flagella *is* disconnected from the membrane (though held in place with membranes it rotates against), so my point still stands. As for wheels being less efficient than legs… I think that is false. If it were the case, our cars would move with legs. Rotating ring structures that use friction against the ground and their outer face for locomotion (as a wheel does) simply don’t exist in the animal kingdom, though synthetic ones seem to be everywhere in our machines.
I remember reading "The Emperor's New Mind" long ago and have been fascinated by this concept ever since. Hammeroff later on made some good points to expand upon Penrose's ideas. For example, he pointed out that some compounds have different effects on consciousness which cannot be explained chemically. One such example is lithium. Lithium-6 and Lithium-7 are identical chemically yet have vastly different effects on the brain.
I also read it long ago. AIR the quantum consciousness stuff was in the last two chapters. I remember being struck by two things at the time. First I was (and still am, though now nearing retirement) a business hack programmer .... who was (and is) largely self taught and stayed in the game while a huge percentage of colleagues "burned out" or were innovated out of the game by changing technology, where I continuously followed and learned new stuff, including forays into the lowest, deepest roots of computer science; and it was clear to me from those chapters that Penrose for all his unquestionable intelligence and hugely deep theoretical understanding of logic, didn't understand computers and computation. That there are problem models which intrinsically cannot be generally solved computationally DOES NOT MEAN that all problems of that model cannot be computationally solved. There is no (known) general solution to the traveling salesman problem (or a dozen similar classic problems), but with relatively small set of nodes and/or other constraints .... well your navigation app is stark evidence that there ARE specific solutions to such that can be derived computationally. The second issues was conflation of ignorance ... which is a huge and common problems: it is not necessarily true that for some function f, if f(x) = f(y) that x = y. That is ignorance of x and ignorance of y does not mean that x and y are identical ... or even related. And for that matter I have serious trouble considering our comprehension problems of quantum mechanics "ignorance". We aren't ignorant of quantum mechanics ... in fact we can generally map out the equations for any problem we can define well enough, though as with any equations solutions may be difficult to solve ... Our "ignorance" is simply our problem finding an easily graspable conceptual analogy for them. Those two "rebuttals" to the minor extent Penrose's arguments required rebuttal were even then, IMO more than sufficient to table any enthusiasm for the idea. Perose's arguments simply did not carry the freight he was trying to load upon them. Which is not to say that I object to research .... I favor any well constructed and disciplined program of scientific research which may result in new knowledge (or even simply provide additional confirmation to that known)! Likewise, now that we have sufficiently sensitive tools we're finding all kinds of cases where quantum effects manage to propagate up to molecular and even in a few cases structural events. Given how often we are finding such I'd be downright surprised if we didn't find some cases of such happening in the brain. But none of that substantially points to the idea of consciousness being a "quantum phenomenon" - mostly because I've never heard a coherent statement about what such concept is supposed to mean. Give me hypothesis of what "consciousness is a quantum phenomenon" means - in terms where "consciousness" clearly references something you, I, and anyone else would recognize as intrinsically part of our experiences of our own consciousness - that can in principle be empirically tested with at minimum a stochastically consistent positive result and we can talk. Quantum effects in internal cellular structures are as ho hum and meaningless to such is as telling me that quantum effects have something to do with how atoms and molecules bind. We know that. So what?
Old news, but very important . Now you can laugh when you hear about conscious AI . They don't know what they are talking about, let alone fabricating it .
Another example being tritium, which reacts chemically quite differently - sluggishly, compared to lighter hydrogen isotopes. The classical computer model of the brain has long been in trouble, in part due to the phenomenal number of neurotransmitters and neuromodulators present that are entirely absent in our classical binary based computers. That said, I do believe that Penrose did dive off a bit too far into the deep end with his theory. We do know that quantum chemistry is a thing, but it's nowhere quite as deep as what Penrose suggested with absolutely no evidence to support his theories.
This is why diDeterium oxidie (heavy water) would kill you if you drank it and replaced all the water in your body with it. Your enzymes would work slower, fall out of homeostasis and you would die
I remember reading Penrose's book when it came out, at the time I was studying the philosophy of QM and molecular cellular biology - my textbook had the picture of fluorescing microtubules on it! So wow, 35 years later it all may really tie together!! Anyway, I hope so and I hope some evidence turns up whilst Penrose is around - he's 92 and still working! A total hero and so unassuming - check out Penrose tiles etc - he inspired Escher's paintings no less! Noble prize for Black Holes? Pah!!!
Yeah, dude is smarter and more lucid in his 90s than I've ever been... Possibly the smartest human we've had the privilege to share the Earth with. What a legend.
I read his book too, still have it, as a matter of fact... I remember it made a lot of sense, that consciousness is quantum in nature, but figured it would be impossible to get physical proof!
Usuer-vn, this is difficult to explain, but I have followed Roger Penrose for years, and only because I design optical illusions and understood that he had come up with the Penrose Triangle illusion, and was even in dialogue with MC Escher during his early career. // I have actually had many breakthroughs in the approaches to optical illusions, but interestingly I began to apply color and then shape to the melding surfaces of illusions and it led me to think of musical notes as idealized color-shapes that reflected the specific emotion of distance keys. For example, A-flat is spherical and blue, and the loneliest songs are in A-flat. Anyway, you may want to check out my work here at: _The Acoustic Rabbit Hole_ And yes, Penrose WAS (and _is_ ) the man!
@@UltimateFeudEnterpriseThe Science! (tm) cult doesn’t like anything that gives the spiritual so much as a nano-angstrom of credibility. Religion is simply too evil, and too lowly to be allowed in our “progressive” and “modern” utopias.
@@UltimateFeudEnterprise lol exactly! when that happens if it happens we will see science really take off but if they continue to think in such a narrow way we will only get garbage like AI and smart phones rather than unlocking the real mysteries of the universe. hard to think outside the box science created for itself
As always, I'm grateful for your patience in understanding and explaining these new areas of study. Articulating these ideas in plain language takes a lot of work, and you have a particular knack for it. It's interesting to think that our experience might arise in a sort of interface between what we see as two separate classes of phenomena-- macroscopic processes like gravitation and the infinitesimal world described by quantum theory. And that interface might physically consist of a biological architecture based on microtubules... I mean, this kind of proposition has seemed intuitively satisfying for decades, but it's kind of breathtaking to think scientists could be on the verge of narrowing it down to this particular structure and even modeling how it works. Anyway, thanks for the work you do, it's important.
Consciousness is shared - check out learning field experiments with rats - ask yourself why children today are born instinctively knowing how to use tech thier grandparents couldnt imagine.
2:38 At every stage of man's understanding of nature, our mind has been likened to the technology of the time. Whether our brain is called a pump, or a telephone exchange or a computer, or dare I say a quantum device, we continue to try to tie it to the mundane, to that with which we are familiar. Sometimes the metaphor is useful, sometimes not. But even now, I'm skeptical that we're nearly at the point of understanding.
There is no end to how much we can understand and comprehend, to the number of relationships or connections we can form and interweave. It's like we are trying to define an absolute value of an irrational number. We can comprehend the "macro" scale of the number and its applications, but we can never understand or determine a discrete absolute true value of it. Truth is an ever converging point, between what we perceive and what is. And what is, is fundamentally irrational and infinite, and can not be completely grasped by any tool or technology.
Yes, which is why all the recent "AI" hype is overrated. Even single celled organisms seem to have sentience - it's something special that we share with all living things....
Not from penrose or any other famous scientist at least. That''s for sure. Donald Hoffman might be on to something, we'll see but at least he has more than modele you can't calculate and is approaching from the right way, not entirely ass backwards as every psych scientist studying the topic for the last 30 years. Brilliant minds all but as they start, write and end their theories within our spacetime believing it to be fundamental which it isn't we won't get an inkling of wht it is from these people untill they start following their own fields and physics latest breakthrough science which have actually made progress and have claculable hypothesis for their theories and the more they do it the more opens up. The physics part that inspired hoffmans work is already well acknowledged, We'll see, but it won't be from these old farts set in their indoctrinated dogmatic views.
This would explain how consciousness can be transmitted into a physical biological form and experience reality in tangible format - it doesn’t mean that is how consciousness is created, more like the brain… or these crystalline structures if you want.. are extremely advanced quantum antenna. Ofc materialists will say otherwise.
I know next to nothing about modern science, but I really enjoyed your video, learned new stuff and got excited for the future! It's clear that you care about how to interpret information, without hyperbole or bias. Instant subscribe!
It was always fun to watch people saying that quantum effects only belong to extremely low temperatures on LCD screen, with all data delivered by optical cables.
Yeah, my understanding of physics is pretty rudimentary but doesn't *everything* have wave/particle duality but at the macroscopic level all the probability waves collapse so you're basically living in a Newtonian universe on the scale humans operate on?
As you mentioned, but i want to highlight again: *Microtubules are everywhere* , they are essential for cell functioning, whether in the liver or the brain. In neurons, they serve among all their other functions *to transport neurotransmitters to the synapses* . It is not really surprising that there are quantum effects in these proteins (or enzymes, really). It is however a stretch to thus conclude that consciousness "is quantum" (whatever that may mean). That's similar to claiming that consciousness is proton-based (bc. H+ ions play an important role in the mitochondrial respiratory chain that is needed for the brain to operate, and also pH-levels are important to cell functioning) -- technically true, but beside the point.
There are over 80 benzine rings in each a and b protein making up mt's. There are other proteins that connect those proteins in 2, 3, 4, 5, 6's. Some connect them in hexagonal forms, for supposed long term memories. They produce frequencies, within frequencies, within frequencies, in higher and lower orders. Sounds like signals and codes to me.
@@mikepatnode4407 If you hit a tree log with a hammer, it produces frequencies within frequencies, in higher and lower orders. This in itself does not mean that these frequencies are relevant to understanding the tree. They may still be informative, and do reflect the shape and material properties of the tree, which reflect the life history of the tree, making them "long term memories", if you really want them to be. A railway has acoustic properties, but those are not what it's used for. The relevant question here is: Is this an epiphenomenon/biologically relevant --- are they in fact signals, as in: received and decoded somehow, or are they simply properties of a system that does other things with the structure that happens to also have these properties. And then a follow up question of course is: If they serve a biological function, which one is it? And why don't the microtubules in the cells of the liver or the spleen implement consciousness through their quantum effects?
This. It's an interesting result (assuming it stands) but right now we don't understand how minds arise from brains which means what's physically going on in the brain is only linked by correlation - and assumption - to consciousness. There's a mechanistic gap (maybe more a chasm in fact :) between the brain and the (seemingly not even physical) mind and at the moment it seems verging on unbridgeable, which this result doesn't change. (although i'd say that up until around 20 years ago it _would_ have been very surprising - as noted in the video, cells were thought to be "too hot and wet" for quantum coherence and though we've seen evidence for it in other chemical pathways, direct evidence for it happening in the brain does close off _one_ - IMO fairly minor - "loophole" against consciousness being a fundamentally quantum phenomenon)
@@1Cr0w of course nobody knows what consciousness is. But I think it is feelings. If you get shot in an organ it hurts, and hurts there. The pain, how it happend,when it happened is stored in the brain. I don't think you can bring back that pain, other then you stands to reason it's inside of neurons, (in dendrites coming in and going out/ axons just going out.) Have a better chance of creating and dispersing it
Hi @@1Cr0wthanks for sharing. I wouldn't go as far as to say that it's impossible and out of the question that the microtubules in liver may effect into consciousness through their quantum effects. All the best, take care ❤
Let's be clear, what Penrose argues is that understanding cannot be algorithmic and thus produced by computation. This is a direct result of Gödel's Incompleteness Theorems, and the corollary is that AI will never be able to understand what it does and be intelligent. This is why I call AI: Artificial Ideation. Secondly, nobody is ditching out the computational nature of neural networks. Hameroff and Penrose argue that there is quantum computing in addition to algorithmic computing in the brain. Where both go astray is in their materialistic insistence that consciousness must be generated by the brain. What they are discovering is the interface between consciousness and the brain, or rather, how consciousness manifests itself in the physical brain. Alas, it will take a few more years before science runs head-on into the wall where it's heading and is forced to admit that consciousness is more fundamental than matter. For that, follow the work of Donald Hoffman.
Anton, thanks so much. I'm writing something from yet another angle on the same subject. And Quantum Consciousness, along with Sabine's recent show on emergence, have totally filled in the last missing puzzle pieces. I'm so happy today. Thanks for all your passion and effort, while raising great kids at the same time.
This is extremely cool, deeply intrigueing, although way over my head...(I'm a visual artist} Now to find out more---even if I'm just skipping over the surface. Loved your smile at the end! ;-) Oddly, the upcoming family members include more and more scientists.
We already know what we need to prevent it and fix it. But the pharmaceutical companies are trying to figure out how to prolong dementia so that any medication they develop will be used for decades. There is no profit in cures. Prolonged, low grade suffering is profitable.
@@holeymcsockpuppet there are muliole reasons, why this does not make sense. I can send you a video where a guy is explaining, why this won‘t work. Tell me, if you are interested. (it is in german but there is autotranslate for subtitles)
Thought dementias etc. originated in braincell mitochondrial dysfunction generally caused by sustained chronic inflammation & insulin resistance. Eliminate carbs from diet + fast 36 hours each week (e.g. eat breakfast then don't eat until the evening of the next day), also add a 5-day fast once every month or every quarter and you'll be in a much, *much* better position cognitively. Dr. Thomas Seyfried considers just *one* 5-day fast *per year* to be sufficient to reduce your chance of cancer by 45%. Just once... There are vast benefits by doing this (fat loss, cancer-halting, systemic anti-inflammatory side effects, thyroid function improvement so more resilient immune system etc.). Look up the channel Pottenger's Human for more info on this, he tends to provide proof/"receipts" for the claims I made before e.g. links to studies finding statistically significant results that can be cheaply implemented by anybody who simply has the knowledge.
I had Alzheimer’s; cured myself. Used what I learned to develop the world’s first effective covid protocol (neigh identical to Dr. Zelenko’s, but about 6 weeks earlier); Last year set the record for the oldest person to ever grow naturally at age 50 (Adam Rainer is the overall record holder at age 51 with Acromegaly/giantism). When Roger Penrose first proposed this back in the 90ies, practically everyone thought he was out to lunch, but I thought he was on to something. Glad to see he is being vindicated.
Thanks Anton, this topic really was a massive workout for my Brain. I'm not sure if I understand it completely but it's certainly a lot to think about, I think I'll just keep WAVING AND TRY TO STAY WONDERFUL. PEACE AND LOVE TO EVERYONE ❤❤.
Lol, all these scientists sitting there saying that’s way too crazy to be true… yet here we are, talking, thinking, living, existing out of nothing. Why are they so adamant consciousness must be in the brain and the basis for consciousness must align with old science? Life is way too extraordinary.
@@catpoke9557 I guess it all depends on what you construe as evidence. If it’s what you can verify with man made equipment and the current understanding of man’s mind, then sure. If you’re willing to accept human experience as evidence then we have a different discussion. The problem is it’s a I’ll believe it I see it world… so we took a few hundred extra years to agree the earth was round. In hindsight the earth being flat is a ludicrous idea. One day, people will laugh at the idea of consciousness being inside the brain. Plenty have had larger experiences that it’s not and that it is everything and everywhere but they’re not believed because 99.5% of people still believe they are the thought in their mind. They have never even investigated who it is that is watching and “knowing” the thought or who is there when the thoughts are silent and yet we are still there somehow… “knowing” we are. Once you experience that, and then follow that experience of knowing you are without thought, it leads you the place current science is not will to see.
I never thought of it that way. The brain is a hunk of fat full of salt and electrodes. That thing is capable of naming itself and what we assume is self awareness and consciousness… Why couldn’t those conditions be met in some other fashion?
Saw this in the exact right time was dreamt about things last night to dedicate my whole life to this research as I medical student interested in consciousness and psychology since before my tween years, I appreciate you man love the content
I’m glad you decided to wait to cover this topic and highlight the new study. I had learned about it elsewhere, but it is really interesting stuff. There is so much we don’t yet understand.
A psychologist I know often says that he thinks medicine and psychology will merge into one subject or field in the future. I partly disagree as I think the fragmentation of the different sciences is here to stay, for a while at least... but I also think that new synaptic connections between the different sciences will happen more often and get more and more attention, support etc, from now on.
@@jonaseggen2230 No, they are right, we misunderstand so many things in certain fields because we don't see the truth. The fields of study are connected, it can only be seen by those with the eyes to see the truth because this truth lies hidden outside the light in the dark places. We have been tricked, we have been lied to intentionally, and in bathing in the lie we are we lose the eyes to see the truth. I have become the physical manifestation of that truth as somehow all of you have flowed into me and lifted the veil and given me the eyes to see the truth. In knowing, in becoming aware of the truth, my individuality, my life is forfeit. I seek the voice to spread the truth and root out the lie that plagues us all. I am you and you are me. We are part of a greater whole. I cry out to be heard before we venture into the next catastrophe caused by the lie.
I am an anesthesiologist and neuroscientist, and this is just goofballs making stuff up. Its like claiming the radio makes a car work... um, okay, sure.👍🏼🤣
I wish I could remember his name but someone on X was saying just last month they got approved to study the affects of Ultrasounds on microtubules to treat Alzheimer’s and dementia in America. This video seems timely!
Mysticism/theology/consciousness/quantum entanglement thinking has been around for quite a while. The work of Marja de Vries and Amit Goswami have both independently done an excellent job of relating the implications of consciousness + quantum phenomena with pretty much everything else. It is great fun to live in a time when such divergent thinking is "merging" to better understand the ultimate truth. Thanks for this excellent video.
Oohhh this was an exciting one, as a 25 year old who fears neurological disease (and is curious about consciousness) I hope this bread crumb leads somewhere big!
Why would you fear a neurological disease specifically? Especially given that if you had a severe brain injury you likely wouldn't even remember that fear, so you're only making yourself suffer in the meantime for no benefit. Just relax! :p
As someone who has a panic disorder, it gives you a taste of how much your brain can mess with perception and make life a living hell. They are right to be afraid of neurological diseases. A brain injury that makes you forget everything is not the same thing as a progressive disease like Alzheimer’s. I’ve seen the effects of that too, and it’s terrifying. The idea of even forgetting the coping mechanisms you’ve learned over your life to deal with the fear and paranoia that comes with a disease like Alzheimer’s. Yes, that is terrifying.
@CampingforCool41 What you've said makes no sense. You're afraid of living miserably in the future so therefore you are going to live miserably now worrying about something that hasn't even happened yet? I can promise you you're problem is you isolate yourself and think too much. Please talk to others more and do more, for your own sake and others.
@@JoshKaneTalks Have you ever had a panic disorder before? A psychotic episode? There are things no amount of socializing are gonna fix because the brain is going to do what it’s going to do. It’s called mental illness for a reason. My point is, there is legitimate reason to be scared of Alzheimer’s. And yeah it’s great and all to not worry about the future but when you know you have a high likelihood of genetically inheriting it it’s pretty hard not to worry about.
@CampingforCool41 I have incurable chronic health illnesses and have had severe general anxiety at childhood. As an adult I'm not going to worry about my future because it isn't guaranteed for anyone. It is illogical. Simple math. When you were born no one promised you a certain amount of time or said life was serious. You're doing it to yourself brother. I've been there. Go outside. Do things. Keep busy by doing things for others especially. You're promised as much as everyone else.
As a person suffering from bipolar 2 and severe depression, consciousness and the way we perceive reality has piqued my curiosity for quite some time. I love being alive in the golden age of scientific discovery. I desperately hope we figure out the brain sooner rather than later.
As a bipolar 1 person I agree lol, science and philosophy can’t accept or agree on why we are conscious, it has to be something a little more than what either of them say
I don’t have a scientific background but the most intriguing theory I’ve heard bout consciousness is that it’s a universal field that exists everywhere and brains are like antenna tapped into the field. People have reported experiences after being clinically dead or losing consciousness. It also can add some answers to the universality of expression across animals how we all express emotions similarly, behave somewhat similarly based on cognitive power, etc.
This is how my NDE was - and the question was asked of me “ what vibration of consciousness do you want to animating your body?” The most powerful question I’ve ever sought to answer.
@@danraysonVibologie said "I witnessed something once", he could experienced something (not specified) but we don't know the context. He was drunk? He was at a public or private place? He was hallucinating? The context of something matters so it makes sense a sentence or affirmation to prove if he's saying the truth or if he's being fooled by his senses.
Should cover the actual work getting actual evidence, not imaginatory unprovable stuff like penrose and all others in psych pretty much who are still living in the last millennium with their neverending fantasy hypothesis
This is mind blowing or conscious expanding, love it . Thanks for sharing. Your episodes you put out are great i cant believe you find the time for all us Thank you again.
Thank you very very much for putting all this together. I am interested these subjects myself: including the Buddhist theories of conscience and the, supposedly, perceptions of inner lights and aura's coming from kundalini and meditation. This seems to have some relevance and I'm guessing a lot of swami's are lapping this up. But I cannot deny being intrigued myself. It's lso almost my birthday and someone asked me what I would like. I couldn't think of anything that I need; but now I remembered that I still want. And it's a wonderful person T-shirt.
Excellent video, now we know what and where to think about this. Obviously in the brain for thinking, but what is the thing in the brain at the heart of this.
It never fails to amaze me that we understand and know more about physics and the universe in many aspects than we do about our own biology, psychology and health.
@@twrecks6279 No, actually. We are just meat machines operating on electrical impulses inhabiting an oblate spheroid hurdling through the ever vast cosmos at the end of the day. We're not special. Get over it and grow up.
Possibly the most important frontier in science. What us the true nature of our conscious selves. And, as usual Anton, a brilliant piece of science communication 👏 Classical materialism, biological and neuroscience have as yet failed to produce any answer to what is consciousness and where does it stem from. In science that usually points to the need to take a new direction. I think quantum physics may hold the answers 👍
I cancan spoil it for you. It will 99% sure evolve into being wrong. There is actual research rewarding with actual scientific proof whereas all other consc hypothesis from the last 30 years, this included, have not produced a single shred of evidence on anything tangible re: Consc. The underlying problem is that all theories and studies in every field of any science, soft or hard assume spacetime ie our universe is fundamental and the start their study, do the guesswork within, and end their study (in consc study concludes we have no idead how to study any of these in a scientifcal satisfying manner. It's been shown in physics our spacetime is neither real reality nor fundamental in any way, thus many hypotheses are moot just from that fact alone because the theory starts,continues and ends within spacetime and all conclusions are done within spacetime with outdated and sometimes outright fraudulent people, followin a status quo .. Not talking in general but for example topics such as consciousness etc. Intangible things we dont understand in any way but still most
it's interesting how since we now live in a technocratic world, the idea that "Consciousness is just a computer" will be fiercely enforced and promoted, since there are whole tech industries and fields of computer sciences that are based entirely on that premise. When reality could actually be so different.
People struggle to fathom that it may not JUST be: "that there is much we don't know yet (as in through science)" -- but that the things we think we know CAN be very wrong.
i agreed. it does make some busy work for scientists though. consciousness is out of the realm of science in my opinion though i do think it will be possible to mimic it someday
Using the computer as a metaphor for the brain has been pretty much dropped by anyone who studies the brain - neuroscience has progressed enough to show that brains are not at all like computers. Philosophers still use the metaphor, but they don't know what they're talking about most of the time anyway.
@@nycbearff As per Heidegger, every time a new technology is developed, it seems to distort the way we think about things at some ontological level (until something comes along to shake it up). With Descartes, it was the "clock-work universe" -- now it's the "computational universe". I much prefer Whitehead's "organismic universe" -- it's far less discrete, and is closer to nature imo.
Im a psychiatrist and this is huge. Makes alot of senses that it could work this way better esp more as a symphony than a computer bc this is what you see phenomenologically clinically. Depression, anxiety, OCD, ADHD definitely have these symphonic characteristics. Our term, “cognitive dissonance” which is a great and accurate descriptive term really resonates (no pun intended) with the symphonic idea.
Collective intelligence, look up Michael Levin's work in it. My work is on the organ portion to whole peron and globe, his works are (sub)cellular to whole organism. Lots of overlaps in our works.
@@Nah_Bohdi Our intelligence is not our own. Our ego hides the truth from us. There is a fabric of consciousness undergirding the physical reality in which we reside. This collective consciousness flows into all of us. It is our meager awareness of this consciousness that produces man's intellect. Some have a bit more unconscious awareness of this consciousness, and they are the minds that push us forward and help us grow, not in numbers but in awareness. This is the true origin of that spark of brilliance. Your intellect is not your own but all of us speaking through you. The truth is known, and it seeks to be heard. One piece to the puzzle yet remains, the truth must find a voice so loud that all can hear it. Be filled with joy for the truth has an unshakable faith in you, and it will find a way to make us whole again.
@@dranlan8093 The soul is real, there is a part of us that will subside back into the fabric of consciousness undergirding our physical reality when we pass. In this capacity we all will live on
Science comunicators are like the tabloid press for science, i wouldn't put much credence in what they say as it's usually fraught with errors and even fundamentally entirely upside down compared to cutting edge science, He's here to make a buck and the best way for him to do it is a science "communicator" as that is something he vaguely seems to have some familiarty with. Mainly the dogmatic parts of it, which aren't science or the attitude driving it sure as hell isn't. He seems a nice dude and is probably one of the least sensational and least errorprone within his field of youtube content creators doing science "communication" or one sohuld say mis/dis/info as it was trendy a while back. :D
Is anincredible scy comm kinda like a contemporary jouirnalist? believeing what he is said (science and belief, the 2 same sides of the different coin ) Essentially via appeal to authrotiy regurgitating what you are told without a critica lthought ever passing their mind as long as i get paid. I bet a jewtube account even as shitty as his garners a boatload of money in that eus most corrupt shithole he originates from.
I think this is all backwards: Quantum computing REQUIRES exact predictability/zero error. So absolute zero temp. Biological organisms have no such requirement. Does entanglement exist at room temp in Nature? Why not. Does it serve a useful purpose that we can measure? That's two questions. Possibly and probably not. The wind blows (quantum effects) and it's pleasant (measurement), but what purpose does it serve? If the wind stops blowing (xenon) and the organism passes out, we can surely infer that the "wind" is a necessary component to a conscious state. This is NOT to infer that consciousness IS quantum in nature. A component, sure, but not the underlying strata.
This is a very interesting piece, and the graphics are an excellent compliment to your narrative. I believe that resonance is also part of the biological mechanism of Chloroplasts in photosynthesis. It would be interesting to look at that and compare.
Alison, did you know that JS Bach wrote this Goldberg Variations for a Count Goldberg who couldn't sleep. Bach's remedy for the Count's insomnia was 30 variations in the key of A. (I myself see A an an electric blue. Musical here). Therefore, the idea is not only that the frequency of A might have anesthetic properties related to consciousness/unconsciounsess, but the fact that A432 scientific tuning being relative to Sacred Geometry makes prefect sense if you think of microtubules as crystal structures.
@@homebuddha No. Compliment and complement are two different words, and they mean different things. In the context of what she wrote, complement is the correct word.
Ok Anton... this is the story, an example of the reason why you are amazing and your channel deserves to be well known and respected as it is... I was looking for an interesting "good-night" scientific knowledge/discoveries video sort of thing, and my UA-cam selection failed me so badly, with many pointless clickbaiting videos and suddenly your channel appeared and that was an immediate relief, felt at ease, felt like learning, and felt like sharing knowledge, not listening to a robotic reader voice. All my best
I remember talking to a coworker in the medical field who had previously worked closely with anesthesiologists and he talked about how weird it was that there was a chemical/gas they could just give you that turned your brain off.
@@i-never-look-at-replies-lol not overwhelm, the neurons lose quantum coherence. It's like turning off a very large interconnected system at every point, like a transistor of a CPU, off all at once. Quantum coherence is what leads to consciousness as per Orch OR.
@@daveloya6510 I dreamt while being under for surgery. In fact, I woke up in the midst of it and began telling one of the nurses about my dream. Turns out you can have a high tolerance for anesthetics.
Except your brain _isn't_ "turned off" under anaesthetic, it's just in a different state (your _mind_ is arguably "turned off" but one of my issues with many people's takeaway from this result is, those are categorically NOT the same things and given that how minds arise from brains is still almost entirely mysterious to us, results about one _barely_ relate to the other). As Anton says in other words, interesting as it is this tells us basically _nothing_ about consciousness beyond that, assuming the result stands, it's now not considered _physically impossible_ for it to be a quantum phenomenon. To me that's a pretty low bar to clear.
It seems logical to me that almost any phenomenon will be quantum by nature - just as almost any phenomonon will be by nature affected by gravity, or the electromagnetic force.
by definition they are. the only difference between these tubules and any other activity is that we can measure them because the connection is longer. it is very hard to have measurements of chaotic interactions and get maningful data from it. most of modern science communication is nothing more than pop-science. this study has nothing to do with conciousness.
That "by nature" is doing a lot of heavy lifting though. Silicon chips for instance are "quantum by nature" in the sense you seem to mean (we can't understand or model them fully without quantum physics) but standard computers (using silicon chips) are still _classical_ "by nature". In other words yes, the classical world "arises" from quantum physics (the quantum description _is_ fundamentally how the universe works as far as we currently know) BUT it's still different _by nature_ (i.e. we don't see classical objects in quantum superpositions - cats are _either_ alive or dead :) - and we don't see Bell correlations - entanglement - between e.g. footballs).
@@anonymes2884 classical is simplyfied view of world similar to newton vs einstain. we cant find quantum superpisitions from chaos but that does not mean they are not there. you can take single interaction and follow causation to both direction and realize that uncontrolled chaos is impossibly complex. from the interaction to any amount of time forwards or backwards.
"Quantum effects" and "Body-temperature Quantum Entanglement" are not the same things!! Quantum dot LEDs and tunnel diodes are all working at room and higher temperatures with "quantum effects" but none of it brings closer or suggests "entanglement".
I wish I saw this earlier! Thank you! I need as many explanations for the observation effect. I have stayed up many nights thinking about this. I'm also obsessed with the Fineman constant, lol.
After 45 years in Veterinary Medicine, a Master in Theology, and finishing a doctorate in psychology I would opine that consciousness is the fundament of reality, and is universally present in a fractal form. Your dog certainly is conscious.
The word "fundament" does not mean what you think it means. And if you're getting a doctorate in psychology, why don't you know how little is currently known about how the brain operates at a cellular level? Any claim about consciousness currently is pure speculation.
I've read Roger's book Emperor's new Mind a few years ago and was absolutely blown away by it. Even before that, I was almost sure that consciousness was not just computational but after that book, I started to advertise the idea and book to everyone I meet 😀 How amazing is it that finally we have some confirmations
No, we _don't_ have _any_ confirmation that consciousness is a quantum phenomenon. We _do_ (seem to) now have evidence suggesting that some aspects of how _brains_ work relies on quantum effects but it's important to remember that _brains_ employing quantum effects _doesn't_ mean _minds_ are quantum phenomena. Semi-conductors also rely on quantum physics for instance but standard computers (built on semi-conductors) are entirely classical. Increasingly it seems like photosynthesis relies on quantum effects but plants are not quantum phenomena. Etc. So this is interesting work but it says basically nothing about consciousness per se (as Anton says, this doesn't show that consciousness is quantum, it only suggests that it's not _physically impossible_ that consciousness is quantum).
@anonymes2884 whatever conciousness is it is not just a binary system with complicated rules. It's a hardware problem. All these people thinking if you add enough neurons and algorithms conciousness suddenly magically emerge have fallen too deep and lost all logic. 1 trillion on or off switches won't give you conciousness no matter how complicated you make them. It's something else for sure frankly quantum effect does make sense.
A funny thing I noticed is tryptophanes are very similar to tryptamines which are basically psychedelics. Given all the positive research happening in that area and the trip reports I read. It's an interesting idea how these 2 compounds interact and how it relates to the ideas proposed in this video. I hope someone studies psychedelics in that light because it could change the world
different vehicles to the same destination... ❤️ sleep meditation or other methods can be slower harder to learn without a teacher but still get you there.. It seems the cia gateway method uses sound to break through, i favor K personally as its safe clean non toxic and has a strong neuroprotective effect but its not always easy to get real K these days (wonder why lol)
They ALREADY are changing the world....hang in there gang, 2 more generations should see us on the upward projection...just gotta slow the doomsday clock🎉
Wow that’s literally mind blowing! I always suspected it’s quite likely that consciousness is related to quantum physics but understanding the actual mechanisms and it’s implications for biology, philosophy, technology, medicine, neuroscience etc are huge! I hope this gets us one step closer to solving the hard problem of consciousness!
If you read Hameroff's most read science paper on the secret of Free Will - that solves the Hard Problem. But it's when you realize that Penrose's "Negative resonance" is actually noncommutativity as precognition then you get into really wild paranormal nonlocal properties first realized by Olivier Costa de Beauregard.
I am a board certified anesthesiologist and neuroscientist. What you and many people are missing here is that consciousness is very well understood already, and in my profession I manipulate it with great precision and control on a daily basis. Human consciousness is the result of hundreds of billions of synapses firing between neurons, the flow of electromagnetic voltage potentials and complex neurochemical signaling, all of which are very well understood in extreme detail. Two things that aren't understood are the philosopher's use of the WORD consciousness, and the emergent network effects of hundreds of billions of neurons firing recursively. This is a desperate ploy to wedge magical-seeming quantum effects into neurosience for no apparent reason other than it "seems cool". The brain doesn't need to be quantum to be fascinating.
@@alanpeterson6863I don’t disagree I’m certainly under qualified to argue with you (: But I think the general problem is just understanding what consciousness actually is in terms of the “being” of the phenomenon. Because it seems important to be able to say wether one thing or another is conscious in the way we understand it as a subjective experience that is at least somewhat aware that it is a subjective “being” and has some form of a self. If we could understand this better and determine if something is conscious and to what degree it is conscious it would have major implications on Philosophy for example specifically ethics in particular. The other “problem” that people are interested in is understanding the actual construction of the organism better to the point where we could potentially solve actual problems we couldn’t before such as medical conditions like Alzheimer that are mentioned in the video. It is possible that this means nothing or that it would have major implications on our understanding of the human organism and the brain one would have to wait and see but saying we already know everything and there’s nothing more to learn and discover when actual problems we are unable to solve still exist seems self defeating and honestly a bit lazy.
this is not a new concept and the key limitation of the experiment is that the quantum effect cannot be determined to be either a cause of "consciousness" or the result of it.
Sure it can. The anesthesiology proves it somewhat simply, anesthesia effects the microtubules capability, when you're anesthetized you are not (fully) concious, therefore the microtubules have something to do with consciousness.
I can easily understand that disruption of the microtubules would block consciousness, but surely that is simply because nerve function depends upon microtubules, among many other things. So anesthesia turns neurons off yes and that involves microtubules in some way. It still seems to me that consciousness is an emergent effect from all those neurons interacting and that this study doesn't really address that - the neurons go off and so consciousness goes without any real quantum effects beyond chemistry.
@@timbergel8147 Well it would ultimately be the microtubules structure that is disrubted which leads to a loss of consciousness. It seems like the chemicals are just an interface for consciousness rather than the cause if it.
@@timbergel8147 well, saying it's an emergent effect doesn't really solve anything either. If you don't mean strong emergence ofc (which is basically magic), the subjective feelings, thought and all of that seem to be qualitatively different than anything that happens in the neural substrate, or anywhere in the world besides living beings, even. You know, "the hard problem", which tbf was defined later (1995) than the first book Penrose published on the topic of the mind (1989). From my interpretation (of a layman), Penrose's approach was to narrow down the space in which to search for answers by basically trying to tie the mysterious QM with even more mysterious consciousness, with hoping that physics research will give rise to a possible physical explanation of this phenomena while checking whether the quantum phenomena actually happen in our bodies and brains at all. These studies at the very least suggest the latter, although, just like you, I don't really see how it can solve the hard problem. But we never know, and I certainly hope it can help in doing exactly that
As someone who had been listening to people who had died and were resuscitated for over 20 years, I know that our consciousness is not in the brain. Even people missing large parts of their brains lose nothing. When you die, you leave this body and go back home, most people who died say this life was just like reading a book, or a play you participated in, or even an old coat you discard, you regard it fondly, but move on. You are only here to learn, experience and have goals you set before you come here. Listen to people who died and see what they say. They are the ONLY people qualified to talk about what happens to our consciousness when we die.
@@mushroom11g55 Obviously, you know absolutely nothing about what these people experience and what happened to them, as well as the condition of their body. There are instances of people waking up in morgues a day after they were declared dead and brought to the morgue. So yea, they were physically dead. I would advise doing some reading about NDE's and learn something so you can actually comment on something you know something about.
@@mushroom11g55 If you listen to what people say when they cross over, many of them are given a choice, they are told they can stay or go back (although many more people say they were not given a choice, and they cried and begged not to be sent back here, but were forcibly "pushed" back in their bodies, pretty much against their will), and if they say they want to stay, they are shown what will happen to their families/friends and loved ones if they stay, so many of the people who had this experience chose to return here. You really need to do some reading/listening to what people who did die, they talk about what happened, and their are many millions of people all over the world who have reported this, more and more each day as we are able to bring people back after their bodies have completely shut down (if that is what it is, doctors declare them dead when their heart stops and brain function stops). I like to say most people don't believe in NDE's until they have one. Check out Harvard neurosurgeon Dr Eben Alexander, he thought just like you. There are dozens of medical doctors who devote much of their time now researching this, many of them had NDE's, and there are many more scientists and other medical professionals who are taking this very seriously, and for a very good reason. I grew up studying science and biology, and was an atheist for most of my life, but in the last 20 years I have spent a lot of time reading about this, and now have no doubt whatsoever about what we are and where we go when we die. The evidence (although anecdotal) is overwhelming.
@@hogweedblitz8739In your opinion, what is our purpose here then, specificially, to learn what? Be kind to others? Treat others equally (animals don’t, even to their own kind) Being helpful? Being honest? Procreating a must? Invent something? I’m still trying to figure it out. My fear is to do something or focus/shift my effort into something which may not be significant enough to accomplish my “experience” here.
If all this talk of crystals and frequencies pans out, the alternative healing community is going to have a field day.
Add time cristals to that, and watch healing intensify.
Well i mean theyd still be incorrect though, they claim em frequencies can damage us despite being non ionizing
crystals are everywere. almost all metal is a crystal. computer chips are crystals.
Soooo buy more Tryptophan?
No lol, they are delusional, the crystals don’t emit these frequencies and if they do it’ll be weak asf and like alpha radiation, you’d need to eat the crystal and have it travel close to where our consciousness is for it to actually effect us, put simply it’s horribly unlikely unless a stupid set of events actually happened, basically impossible but maybe possible in terribly unlikely events
One thing I learned when getting a degree in cognitive science was that so far no one really knows how all the different brain regions sync up their activity to create a coherent experience of the present moment. If they operated solely by electrochemical signaling for processing and data transmission, then our sensory experiences would be delayed by up to _several seconds,_ which is not at all how our perception of time works. Even the modern paradigm that "experience is a controlled hallucination" where your experiences are predictions based on pre-cached expectations "loaded in" ahead of time is a bit hand-wavey and, again, doesn't line up with how fast humans can respond to surprise stimuli.
It would make SO MUCH MORE SENSE if the disparate processing regions of the brain all synchronized and communicated via some kind of quantum optical or even entanglement phenomenon, where the info of what is being sensed and thought "now" is correlated at the speed of light rather than the ludicrously slow speed of nerve impulses. This is a _mind-blowing_ development that could potentially solve a ton of big mysteries in neuroscience.
I don't know if this is relevant info - this isn;t my stubject so I only glanced at the video and comments and something you said caught my attenstion, about our sensory percetptions being delayed by several seconds if operated by electrochemical signalling ... Last year I had a stroke and the first sign was that everything I spoke out loud (mosty swearing and panicking lol) was not audible to me but then "replayed" as if off a tape recorder about 2 or 3 seconds later - almost as if my brain contained a sort of "delay line" as used in recording studios etc. It intrigued me how my brain could be "storing" a piece of audio or perhaps simply delaying it's progress. The other symptoms were then a completely dead arm and being unable to say names or short sentences without someting completely different coming out - which was kinda amusing in a way, although also very frustrating and scary of course - luckilly I mostly recovered within a day or two with drugs to help disperse the blood clot as I understand it. Hope this is in some way useful information.
This makes me think so much of intuition, gut feeling, etc and how even in my own life i have now learned to take my first instinct even often above careful logical reconsiderations. Is that gut feeling, your quantum consciousness? And later your “thinking” brain comes in? Also I wonder what role the pineal gland and the theories about calcification play into any of this, if at all. Anecdotally, I will say that my conciousness has expanded a lot in the past 5yrs, and I was for a time supplementing tryptophan and eating a ton of turkey 😂
@@Ubergamer256 There is a possibility of that but Jungian psychology has a strong explanation on it.
@@stephenbrough8132what if your perception of time delay was itself false and created by stroke?
I don't believe that chemical signals are as slow as you say - they goes 1m/s so why do you say about 2 or 3s delay?
Seeing the now obvious link between anesthetics and the study of consciousness was just by itself worth the price of admission.
As someone who unfortunately has been “put to sleep” over 45 times for a huge number of life saving surgeries…I wonder what happened to me during my “trips”….🙃
It is actually brilliantly simple isn't it.. we don't know what consciousness is, BUT we know how to turn it off, so let's attack it from that angle
@@sabbathguy1 phase in phase out,is a part of our mind dreaming right now that running in the back and its all flips polarity I try to keep it basic and work up with simple questions.Before jumping off
@@dragonfly-f5u bot, chill.
Anesthesia affects the function of the pineal gland by interfering with the states of falling asleep (similar to melatonin, but much stronger).
Then the center of consciousness ("self") moves away from the sensory system and moves towards the consciousness of a pictorial dream (which does not necessarily leave memories).
Excellent report, Mr. Petrov. I had been planning on checking out the work between Penrose and Hameroff, and you've given us a basis with which to view that work. The work that many physicists and philosophers are doing on consciousness may help humanity transcend our egocentric problems. Thank you for this video.
Thanks for your comment 😊
This is a fascinating subject and may lead to a deeper understanding of biological brain function and consciousness. I am cautious however to ascribe any implications just yet. Human beings are stubbornly resistant to positive adaptations of behavior. Some of the most intelligent people in the world suffer with Narcissism and Psychopathy rigid and lifelong pathologies for which there is no cure. Self awareness does not always translate into positive change.
I remember coming back from general anesthesia (nose surgery, could not breathe properly) and I can't remember the instant I lost consciousness, but coming back from it was traumatic as I didn't understand who I was, where I was or what was happening. For a couple of minutes I felt I just came to exist in that moment and every sensation was shocking. I had to be told who I was and what was happening and I just had to accept it. I felt like dreaming for a few hours or days. I still feel everything is a dream. Consciousness is so strange, amazing and intriguing, really.
Some Buddhists schools contend consciousness itself is an illusion. They practice using attention in ways to create analogous states of realization to what you may have experienced. I find consciousness super fascinating as well. It's something everyone has with them but so few examine closely.
Oh wow I thought I was the only one in our universe that had this happen to. 🙏
Buddha was the only one can explain very detail about consciousness. I am only a layman in Buddhism. I can only understand it. But cannot show you. You have to find it out as a tool by your body .
May have to do with what anesthetic was used, and how that affects the brain. What particular area/function of the brain took longer to come back vs. some others (access to long-term memory may have lagged). Which may result in a particular sort of sensations as you come back around. Also your general state of "systemic deterioration" at the time you wake up may have an effect. If you have just survived a heavy injury, or there's a background of infection being treated, your congnitive performance may be very weak even without the anesthesia.
In my case, the first total anesthesia correlated with a far progressed appendicitis - and I was "put to sleep" for an apendectomia done the old way (had about 7 stitches). Reportedly it was rather messy. And I was weak (low blood pressure) for a few days afterwards = whenever they'd try to stand me up, I'd black out.
My second total anesthesia was during a somewhat complicated dental operation, where I was in no serious systemic problem. The surgeon has just removed a "buried" tooth from my lower jaw bone. I remember slowly waking up, thinking "oh wow, today I'm going for the operation. Oh wait, I already went for it, I recall lying down on the operating table, having a chat with the people about the theatre... but I don't have my jaws stitched together with wire for support, I can move my lower jaw freely... oh wait, there are some soft stitches on the gum... woow! True wizards those surgeons". And then my vision gradually surfaced from the sleepy dark hazy gloom, and then I puked a handful of blood... that I'd probably previously swallowed, while lying down intubated / unconcsious.
I had none trauma. Best feeling after and VERY hungry😂.
I swear the only reason I click on anything to do with consciousness in relation to quantum physics is when Anton makes a video about it. And it didn't disappoint
quantum mysticism is so stigmatized by all the pseudoscientific snake oil salesmen selling similar pitches minus the overwhelming evidence, so it's understandable that people are hesitant to entertain the idea, but this really is our best shot at explaining subjective experience
Sabine Hossenfelder also has some hot takes debunking it.
cause anton is reputable
Oh so you’re wrong? Literally Sir Walter has been talking about this for years
I'd say open up a bit a listen to some other people on it but I totally understand that it's very easy to go in widly different directions when it comes to topics like this. The people who angrily try to deny this to protect their worldview should be treated with the same skepticism as the New Age types that abuse the word "quantum" to fit everything they believe.
Anton, you are the ONLY youtuber, who has the capability to present in a really comprehensible way complex studies and scientific papers from quite vast array of domains, which at least should make you much more confident when you are promoting your channel. Thank you for all of your work !!!
Not the ONLY for sure. I regularly watch many channels ranging from Cosmetics to Physics who do a good job presenting research in common language. Sabine Hossenfelder, Technology connections are 2 that come to mind immediately.
Ze Frank
Yeah this video was a major flex on his abilities. Micro tubials always leaves me a bit confused. He explained this quite well and even a a guy with a ged from the doc can understanf!
@@Swanicorn Professor Jean Bricmont debunked Sabine Hossenfelder's mangling of the Bell's Inequality nonlocality experiments. Also Hossenfelder contacted Professor Raymond Pierrehumbert to correct Hossenfelder's admitted error on abrupt global warming. I'm glad Hossenfelder is finally addressing the ecological crisis - even if she is doing so too late and she had already admitted to errors on the subject. Most physicists ignore the abrupt global warming crisis as biological annihilation even though Joseph Fourier first published on the topic writing that the "effects of human industry" would heat up Earth - two hundred years ago!! Wow two hundred years of scientists being corporate brown-No$ers while ignoring the empirical truth that Fourier first established.
Talent on tv and mainstream has been going down the tubes too. ;-P
VERTY interesting. Anton you have a gift for explaining science and you are neutral, logical, and insightful. Keep up the good work.
Yet, he does not know that Tryptophan is not a protein
He said it makes proteins didn’t he
Cheers! What leeche said!
@@wenx6467 lol...nice.
This topic (consciousness) is frankly more important than ANY other topic we could discuss.
We wouldn't be discussing or doing anything at all without it...
Way too broad of a claim with way too many assumptions at play. But everything has to be the "most" or "greatest" these days - nothing matters if it can't be ranked.
Those who look outside dream, those who look within awaken
Why?
@@JH-pt6ihyes, it’s the hyperbolic language required to draw attention in media (clickbait, top 10, BEST or WORST ‘x’ ever) creeping into common language. I personally find it to be very off-putting. It’s like marking all your outgoing office emails as high priority; After a while, people get annoyed or just stop taking you seriously.
I recently heard a doctor explaining that it was recently discovered that when someone is made unconscious by anesthesia, their different areas of the brain all remain active. The difference is, they all cease to communicate with each other.
I don't want to think too much about the implications here... I suppose the formation of the pain/fear reaction is inhibited by the disconnection from sensory input.
One thing I learned when getting a degree in cognitive science was that so far no one really knows how these different brain regions all sync up their activity to create a coherent experience of the present moment. If they operated solely by electrochemical signaling for processing and data transmission, then our sensory experiences would be delayed by up to _several seconds,_ which is not at all how our perception of time works. Even the modern paradigm that "experience is a controlled hallucination" where your experiences are predictions based on pre-cached expectations "loaded in" ahead of time is a bit hand-wavey and, again, doesn't line up with how fast humans can respond to surprise stimuli.
It would make SO MUCH MORE SENSE if the disparate processing regions of the brain all synchronized and communicated via some kind of quantum optical or even entanglement phenomenon, where the info of what is being sensed and thought "now" is correlated at the speed of light rather than the ludicrously slow speed of nerve impulses. This is a _mind-blowing_ development that could potentially solve a ton of big mysteries in neuroscience.
@@MarshmallowRadiation I appreciate your insights. You are someone who has a deeper understanding of the subject than many of us. My reaction to this new research was along the same lines you expressed in your comment. It just makes so much sense.
When I tried to imagine the extended time it takes for each axon terminal to physically release a neurotransmitter chemical across a synaptic cleft to find and pair with a dendrite receptor, it never made sense to me that this, alone, was the source of conscious thought. It's estimated that for a single "thought" to form, one hundred billion neurons and one thousand trillion synapses are working. This seems incredibly slow to be able to experience the world and make conscious decisions within a reasonable period of time. We would all be moving at the pace of sloths. It would take FOREVER to get the cafe mocha you ordered. ;)
Maybe this research is pointing the way to some great breakthroughs.
@@thisisreallife5086 @MatshmallowRadiation I'm not so sure about the idea of quantum entanglement being used in our brains/bodies, but could be some quantum optical phenomenon probably.
Whatever the phenomenon is, I'm not sure this change anything about consciousness and cognition in general. The principle will still be communications between different sensory and various brain areas and evolution made sure to use the fastest method avaialble whether it is with or without quantum.
So yes I get your point that without quantum brains would be too slow and we could not achieve consciousness, this can be the case. Would be funny that a certain speed of information is required for consciousness.
@@MarshmallowRadiationI only have limited knowledge from studying medicine, but for me it seems like 99% of our actions are regulated by the evolutionary "old" parts of our brains that are probably not very different from day a deer and therefore are quite fast. The new parts seem to be not connected in a way that slows down the old part, but just adapting the outcome by giving small modulations
Great cutting edge info. Please provide updates on this topic when available. Thanks.
Hey Anton.
Would be awesome to hear from a scientific standpoint about the structural similarities between the tryptophan, psilocybin and DMT molecules and how they relate to the perception of reality and consciousness of the human being.
I heard his theory a long time ago about consciousness is a quantum effect. Glad you're covering it!
It was dismissed out of hand because "quantum" can't happen in the warm and wet of life. Then they found quantum effects in plants during photosynthesis.
I've been following this theory for years; Orchestrated objective reduction (Orch OR) and Stuart Hameroff's micro-tubule theory which I accepted as very likely how we interface our brains to a quantum level of consciousness. Research this further if you haven't seen his stuff, fascinating.
@@jtjames79 That doesn't mean that consciousness as a process is quantum, though.
@@jackkrell4238thank you.
Chat is giving Chrystal healing energy right now.
How could these quantum states bubble up?
Not only that, but how could they surpass the noise by the chaotic media. Not saying that they don't have an effect on protein fold etc etc, but though is such a more complex thing that involves pathways, hormones, environment etc etc etc. People trying to bring quantum mechanics to neuroscience need to reflect about their own mortality and insignificance, we are not special, just part of the universe.
@@jtjames79 Think entanglement of selenium was suggested, due to it's less difficult to entangle and been deficient of it seems to have detrimental effects on consciousness. Also explains how been knocked out works with the entanglement been disrupted.
Went out to smoke, watched 5mins of this and then paused it and went inside. About 10 mins later my 5 year old asked me “what makes us be alive?” 😳
Edit: I had my headphones in watching this on my phone
“Microtubules, son. Now eat your green beans.”
Hi jacked entropy.
They are always listening
@@DogmaticAtheist oh I know this one. Ears!
Not smoking
Anton, your videos & content are wonderful. You are thorough, careful, and thoughtful. No hyperbole, just a methodical breakdown of the state of our knowledge & also what we don’t know or understand. Thank you so much.
he has employees
@@ignilcGood. I wish more people worked in the "informing people because it's interesting" industry.
Lack of propaganda is a desirable commodity.
Plus he a hunk!
@@ignilcAnton having employees doesn’t add to nor take away from the comment. It’s an odd statement if anything
The idea that the structure of crystalline bonds creates consciousness is crazy great video!
The idea of partially treating Alzheimers and dementia with electromagnetism is wild
But we do it every day in the Electosmog storm of modern society.
@@5nowChain5 Maybe that 'electromagnetic smog' has effects on our brains we can't even imagine the mechanisms of.
@@5nowChain5 bruh
@@5nowChain5 It's making a tin foil hat look more attractive. LOL
Actually Stuart Hameroff has already done experiments with ultrasound. The greatest increase in electromagnetic conductance of the microtubulins is via ultrasound as proven by Anirban Bandyopadhyay's corroboration of the Hameroff-Penrose model of quantum consciousness. Ultrasound is based on piezoelectric collagen - so if people just practiced tai chi or yoga with standing exercises that cause a parasympathetic rebound this will activate the microtubules of the brain also. I have a free training manual as my first upload - oldest video - for details.
This is some of the most interesting stuff happening at the moment! At the moment, we mostly see quantum stuff as some distant thing, unrelated to daily life. If it does turn out it's practically related to EVERYTHING we as human beings experience, it could change a lot.
We are not only a part of it, we are it. 🤩🤍
Yah, just like atoms.
It will change everything😊
Penrose is unusually intuitive and original. His conformal cyclic cosmology is kinda cool too.
ccc really makes sense when you think deeply about what he proposes.
Ccc is correct
My thoughts exactly. CCC seems such a rational and brilliant explanation. Cant wait for all the mass to go so we shrink to dimensionless resized big bang plus 1. I may not live to see it but I hope to see more evidence acknowledged via these supermasssive black hole collision left overs from he last era.
Sir Penrose surely came up with a lot of interesting, convincing and maybe even plausible ideas about consciousness but I wonder if any one of them is remotely close to the truth and if it's just brilliant yet still human mind coming up with the ideas compatible with current knowledge trying to cope with it's own mortality and the thought that death could just be an absolute end 🤔
I as a fellow human being want to believe his ideas really badly but uncertainty about petty much most fundamental things like the very nature of consciousness or infiniteness of the universe (spatial and/or temporal) fills me up with great deal of scepticism 😞
Just food for thought here
@@maxsz91really appreciated your knowledgable comment
Please keep making this type of content. It's absolutely fascinating.
Turns out the quantum computers were inside us along.
The real quantum computers were the friends we made along the way.
If true that opens an Earth shattering field in quantum robotics.
@@davidhess6593buckle up for the near future 🙂
Would quantum computers be conscious?
@@silvershimmerperhaps that might be the best next stage of development for ai
This is both very little and extremely exciting! Thanks for veering outside of your usual scope to report on these studies. Cant wait to hear more!
The current issue of Science magazine has an article about "vaults" within cells. Vaults are a recently recognized type of organelle that is apparently VERY abundant in cells. They're also made of repeated rings of molecules, including RNA, resulting in a crystalline structure. The thing about vaults is that after being studied for decades nobody knows what they do. They strike me as very similar to these microtubules discussed in this video in terms of composition and structure though vaults are sort of barrel-shaped, not tubular.
A Barrel is just a very wide tube!
@@NextWorldVR Vaults are closed off at the top and bottom of the barrel
In a few years we will discover even more and then will find out that it’s everything in our body and around us that is responsible for our consciousness idk
@@NextWorldVR And short.
Luckily none of what you said matters a single iotas worth since every term you used is more than not likely to exist only when observed, thus nothing what you said is actually real in a real reality sense
. The human body is an scientific marvel (golgi machines anyone) but things like microtubules etc won't be rising consc, only in penroses wet dreams, and the entire basis of trying to understand consc or theorize about it with the constraint of it has to be an emerging property of some material thing,
But the problem is there has never been or hown any scientifically acceptable evidence of a hypothesis or even anya way to actually study,test or even mathematically trying to explain how, why and what happens at this emergency.
And there likely never will be. Last 30 years have produced a lot of (i'm inclined to say pseudoscience as that has been used against many undeserving people, but i respect more intelligent people than me too much to do so and most of these people are actual geniuses, just deluded ones bc they took what schools "taught" them as a religious person would take Gods word and seem unable to shake their antiquated way pf thinking, likely because of grant money awarded to mostly stupid shit and studies that wont rock the Status Quo. Bill gates foundation funds a shit ton of this. so your opinion on him might change you view on other topics he has been altruistically philanthropizing their studies, careers and grant money.) It's a crazy world and the only way to exist within is to take everything with a huge grain of salt that's said on any platform doing it for the money, Unless you are one of the 80% part of humanity unable to critically think, then tough luck for you.REfering to milgram findings if it wasnät clear
Anton has the only videos that I watch all the way through the subscribe and support pitches at the end because I always want to see that adorable goofy smile and wave goodbye. He’s such a sincere, sweet person.
Thank you for making us all smarter, Anton!
Considering that photosynthesis in plants is now established to be a quantum phenomenom, in a warm and wet environment, it was no stretch for Roger Penrose to hypothesize consciousness is also a quantum phenomenon. As for computers being conscious at some point, Penrose has pointed out that any computer program butts up against Godel's Incompleteness theorem.
is energy just alive?
Godel's Incompleteness Theorem is general: it applies to classical computers, quantum computers, and even humans. It's obviously not preventing consciouness in humans, so why would it prevent it for computers?
@mouduge
We actually don't know if it applies to humans or not. Gödel didn't think so nor does Penrose.
You say it's general but it specifically applies only to things bound by first order logic. That we created/discovered first order logic as well as the incompleteness theorems and came up with the definitions of consistency and completeness have been held as evidence that we are not so bound.
@@sethtipps7093 How would it apply to humans and other sentient animals if we are actively conscious?
Yeah except photosynthesis and every other discovered bioquantum interaction requires relatively large biological systems to effectively make use of quantum effects. Quantum consiousness is still a complete joke.
I m a psychology student. This is so interesting, my two favourite topics collided with each other. Thanks wonderful Anton for such a great explanation of the paper.
Well, who cares.
@@thetacokawaii5708 Also, Anton, you are a hunk. Please also provide a sexy poster so I can have you on my wall in my home laboratory.
@@thetacokawaii5708same goes for you
@@thetacokawaii5708 not you
@@thetacokawaii5708 ???
If our cell phones use a few quantum tricks, its not unreasonable to assume that a near indescribably more sophisticated machine might use a few too. Since we're both electric powered.
They take advantage of quantum effects in most of the processors, electron tunneling and what have you. This does not make them quantum processors. Engineering with an understanding of quantum level implications is still just regular engineering.
@@Broken_robot1986 This!
we all do it,I can q-entangle with a dog or cat lmao I have before .It's using the correct methodology not just gonna happen it does and can but to do it topnotch I mean perfected the process .And I cant share it case it to simple but time consuming.Its all about the sequences and processes timing instinct being yourself lets say,animals have to be in tune with nature
Penrose is just getting senile @@Broken_robot1986
@@dragonfly-f5ubro what are you talking about
Fantastic work Anton. You are doing a signal service to a global community. Inspiring thought (and not just informing) is the greatest art. And your near perfection of this great art makes you a Great Teacher. So you are a real Guru. A light bringer. Keep trucking old boy👍👌
Anybody ever been put under with propofol? I find the experience disturbing. As soon as the IV starts, you stop existing. As soon as the IV stops, you start existing. No going to sleep. No waking up. Zero sense of having existed at all. I have been knocked out with a variety of anesthetics in my time, propofol is the only one that I guess you could say, upsets me existentially.
How do you know you are the same you that went under the anesthesia? Like, what if your consciousness literally died when you were put to sleep and was replaced by something else when you woke up? It's the same problem that happens with teleportation. How do you know you didn't die and were recreated instead of actually teleported? It's also the same problem that happens when you go to sleep every night. The lapse in stream of awareness means that you have no direct evidence that you are the same you that you were yesterday.
Next time you need anesthesia, just remember: you're probably gonna die and when "you" wake up, you'll never know. Because you'll be dead.
This is not true for everyone though. There have been many people not had these results however they are a minority it has happened plenty of times.
That's strange. I have found it really relaxing and enjoyable. Though I do have multiple psychiatric disorders (ADHD, MDD, PTSD), and also am in quite a bit of pain every day.
It's like a little taste of what death will be like. It made me way less afraid of dying, if it did anything.
@@Brenden.smith.921 Your brain is veeery active during sleepy time, though, and you don't lose conciusness at all.
@@Brenden.smith.921 During sleep you don't so much lose consciousness as much as your consciousness gets heavily supressed, it's still there just not able to do anything.
There is a lot to learn, here. Fascinating cross-discipline thinking. Love it. Thanks.
My grandmother has been a nurse all her life and my grandfather has alzheimer's. She has this theory that anesthesia actually worsened my grandfather's dementia / alzheimer's and might have even caused it. As a result she avoids any type of medical procedures that include anesthesia because she's afraid of losing herself. This video really makes her story make a lot of sense.
We have no idea how,why or what it does during when we administer anesthesia, so everthing is on the table prettty much
It is true….theres research about it out there! Just think if they let this known👉no one would be having any medical intervention & the $ loss👉they will not release that information
Consciousness exists outside the body entirely, but quantum physics plays a huge role in choosing the reality you experience. Very nice to see this subject approached more!
Do you have proof?
@@georgecurington8156NDE'S, ESP research done by Parapsychologist like Russel Targ, Dean Radin, OBE's, SDE (Shared-Death Experiences) and so on. You cannot even provide evidence for your foundational claim. There is no evidence proving that consciousness is emergent property of brain, All you materialistic and skeptics provide evidence is only evidence of correlation and causation. Lmao.
@georgecurington8156
The double slit experiment has been done many times, using not just light, but also showing that molecules demonstrate quantum mechanics properties. It is strange to think that each of the particles that make our world has a probability distribution associated with it, but every experiment seems to confirm quantum mechanics. ✌️
Do you have proof that consciousness "exists outside the body"?
This really is the matrix
An Indian scientist Dr. Mukhopadhya has shown that the microtubules in neurons are arranged in bundles of different lengths; and they react quantum mechanically to different bands of wave lengths depending on their lengths. Please look at this paper.
Anirban Bandyopadhyay!
I feel our brains have different frequencies for every feeling and emotion. Not only that but that they come to us through the electron clouds within the mts by the benzine molecules in them. Also that that is the way memory works. By searching our brains for feelings attached to memories, and not the other way around, where it can then cascade to more memories.
Making the brain a literal "organ" : )
@@mikepatnode4407I have always felt like my memory relies more on remembering specific “feelings” “energies” or “vibes” (none of those quite describe it to me, but they are the closest) then intuiting the details of the “real” memory based on parts of that feeling aligning with certain objects/people/words etc. Ive only tried to articulate that a few times but didn’t make much sense to anyone lmao, good to know I’m at least not the only one with that view on memory.
Very interesting study. He is in contact with Hameroff
If quantum effects provide computation advantages, it seems logical that evolution would use these advantages. In fact, if quantum computation is the huge advance that some technologists claim it is, then it would be odd indeed if evolution did NOT make use of it. The universe is demonstrably "non classical" so why should brains be restricted to classical mechanics?
Just because something is advantageous doesn’t mean evolution will produce it- some things are too complex or would require too high a tradeoff to develop.
A great example is wheels. No animals on the planet use wheels for locomotion, because it’s just impossible for them to work biologically. You can’t make an infinitely rotating joint that doesn’t disconnect somewhere.
Another example is lasers. If you could cook prey with lasers, that would be pretty awesome and advantageous!! Unfortunately, the things that would need to be developed first to then create a bio laser are initially detrimental, and so evolution will almost never take that route.
Cellular have our networks
@@phloopy5630 Well, bacteria have rotating flagella. The structure that drives them is known as a motor. So that seems to be the example that invalidates your notion that "You can’t make an infinitely rotating joint that doesn’t disconnect somewhere."
And I don't see that there would be an advantage to wheeled beetles vs beetles with legs, so I don't think evolution would select wheels instead of legs. Evolution finds advantage, and I don't think that wheels provide that advantage.
@@phloopy5630 but nature has produced tasers, quite efffective ones at that. Laser woild only be to add some range to it 🤷♂️
See ya next saturday! *turns and leaves running*
@@billmilosz I’ve looked up the rotating flagella, and as it turns out, the flagella *is* disconnected from the membrane (though held in place with membranes it rotates against), so my point still stands.
As for wheels being less efficient than legs… I think that is false. If it were the case, our cars would move with legs. Rotating ring structures that use friction against the ground and their outer face for locomotion (as a wheel does) simply don’t exist in the animal kingdom, though synthetic ones seem to be everywhere in our machines.
I remember reading "The Emperor's New Mind" long ago and have been fascinated by this concept ever since. Hammeroff later on made some good points to expand upon Penrose's ideas. For example, he pointed out that some compounds have different effects on consciousness which cannot be explained chemically. One such example is lithium. Lithium-6 and Lithium-7 are identical chemically yet have vastly different effects on the brain.
I also read it long ago. AIR the quantum consciousness stuff was in the last two chapters. I remember being struck by two things at the time. First I was (and still am, though now nearing retirement) a business hack programmer .... who was (and is) largely self taught and stayed in the game while a huge percentage of colleagues "burned out" or were innovated out of the game by changing technology, where I continuously followed and learned new stuff, including forays into the lowest, deepest roots of computer science; and it was clear to me from those chapters that Penrose for all his unquestionable intelligence and hugely deep theoretical understanding of logic, didn't understand computers and computation. That there are problem models which intrinsically cannot be generally solved computationally DOES NOT MEAN that all problems of that model cannot be computationally solved. There is no (known) general solution to the traveling salesman problem (or a dozen similar classic problems), but with relatively small set of nodes and/or other constraints .... well your navigation app is stark evidence that there ARE specific solutions to such that can be derived computationally. The second issues was conflation of ignorance ... which is a huge and common problems: it is not necessarily true that for some function f, if f(x) = f(y) that x = y. That is ignorance of x and ignorance of y does not mean that x and y are identical ... or even related. And for that matter I have serious trouble considering our comprehension problems of quantum mechanics "ignorance". We aren't ignorant of quantum mechanics ... in fact we can generally map out the equations for any problem we can define well enough, though as with any equations solutions may be difficult to solve ... Our "ignorance" is simply our problem finding an easily graspable conceptual analogy for them.
Those two "rebuttals" to the minor extent Penrose's arguments required rebuttal were even then, IMO more than sufficient to table any enthusiasm for the idea. Perose's arguments simply did not carry the freight he was trying to load upon them.
Which is not to say that I object to research .... I favor any well constructed and disciplined program of scientific research which may result in new knowledge (or even simply provide additional confirmation to that known)! Likewise, now that we have sufficiently sensitive tools we're finding all kinds of cases where quantum effects manage to propagate up to molecular and even in a few cases structural events. Given how often we are finding such I'd be downright surprised if we didn't find some cases of such happening in the brain.
But none of that substantially points to the idea of consciousness being a "quantum phenomenon" - mostly because I've never heard a coherent statement about what such concept is supposed to mean. Give me hypothesis of what "consciousness is a quantum phenomenon" means - in terms where "consciousness" clearly references something you, I, and anyone else would recognize as intrinsically part of our experiences of our own consciousness - that can in principle be empirically tested with at minimum a stochastically consistent positive result and we can talk. Quantum effects in internal cellular structures are as ho hum and meaningless to such is as telling me that quantum effects have something to do with how atoms and molecules bind. We know that. So what?
Old news, but very important . Now you can laugh when you hear about conscious AI . They don't know what they are talking about, let alone fabricating it .
Another example being tritium, which reacts chemically quite differently - sluggishly, compared to lighter hydrogen isotopes.
The classical computer model of the brain has long been in trouble, in part due to the phenomenal number of neurotransmitters and neuromodulators present that are entirely absent in our classical binary based computers.
That said, I do believe that Penrose did dive off a bit too far into the deep end with his theory. We do know that quantum chemistry is a thing, but it's nowhere quite as deep as what Penrose suggested with absolutely no evidence to support his theories.
Its the kinetic isotope effect. You should not expect isotopes to act the same in a body when interacting with enzymes.
This is why diDeterium oxidie (heavy water) would kill you if you drank it and replaced all the water in your body with it. Your enzymes would work slower, fall out of homeostasis and you would die
Best explanation of this topic ever, as someone who read Penrose's "the emperor's new mind" recently, these are super fun news!
I remember reading Penrose's book when it came out, at the time I was studying the philosophy of QM and molecular cellular biology - my textbook had the picture of fluorescing microtubules on it! So wow, 35 years later it all may really tie together!!
Anyway, I hope so and I hope some evidence turns up whilst Penrose is around - he's 92 and still working! A total hero and so unassuming - check out Penrose tiles etc - he inspired Escher's paintings no less! Noble prize for Black Holes? Pah!!!
Yeah, dude is smarter and more lucid in his 90s than I've ever been... Possibly the smartest human we've had the privilege to share the Earth with. What a legend.
I read his book too, still have it, as a matter of fact... I remember it made a lot of sense, that consciousness is quantum in nature, but figured it would be impossible to get physical proof!
@@aretwodeetoo1181 a hamster is smarter and more lucid than you
Usuer-vn, this is difficult to explain, but I have followed Roger Penrose for years, and only because I design optical illusions and understood that he had come up with the Penrose Triangle illusion, and was even in dialogue with MC Escher during his early career. // I have actually had many breakthroughs in the approaches to optical illusions, but interestingly I began to apply color and then shape to the melding surfaces of illusions and it led me to think of musical notes as idealized color-shapes that reflected the specific emotion of distance keys. For example, A-flat is spherical and blue, and the loneliest songs are in A-flat.
Anyway, you may want to check out my work here at: _The Acoustic Rabbit Hole_
And yes, Penrose WAS (and _is_ ) the man!
@@aretwodeetoo1181Look up Lionel Penrose, Sir Roger Penrose’s father. He was a polymath.
This is mind blowing. Something really significant is being observed an speculated on.
speculated on being the key words
@@aaronrandolph261yeah God forbid the science cult has a mind blowing perspective change on life and the universe itself eh? 💀
@@UltimateFeudEnterpriseThe Science! (tm) cult doesn’t like anything that gives the spiritual so much as a nano-angstrom of credibility.
Religion is simply too evil, and too lowly to be allowed in our “progressive” and “modern” utopias.
@@UltimateFeudEnterprise lol exactly! when that happens if it happens we will see science really take off but if they continue to think in such a narrow way we will only get garbage like AI and smart phones rather than unlocking the real mysteries of the universe. hard to think outside the box science created for itself
@@UltimateFeudEnterprise Science cult?
As always, I'm grateful for your patience in understanding and explaining these new areas of study. Articulating these ideas in plain language takes a lot of work, and you have a particular knack for it. It's interesting to think that our experience might arise in a sort of interface between what we see as two separate classes of phenomena-- macroscopic processes like gravitation and the infinitesimal world described by quantum theory. And that interface might physically consist of a biological architecture based on microtubules... I mean, this kind of proposition has seemed intuitively satisfying for decades, but it's kind of breathtaking to think scientists could be on the verge of narrowing it down to this particular structure and even modeling how it works. Anyway, thanks for the work you do, it's important.
This is absolutely fascinating. Incredible job breaking this down! Love your channel.
Watching your channel is one of the few things that still gives me hope for the future of our species
This is really awesome, I've always suspected consciousness must be more than just the neurons firing.
Consciousness is shared - check out learning field experiments with rats - ask yourself why children today are born instinctively knowing how to use tech thier grandparents couldnt imagine.
2:38 At every stage of man's understanding of nature, our mind has been likened to the technology of the time. Whether our brain is called a pump, or a telephone exchange or a computer, or dare I say a quantum device, we continue to try to tie it to the mundane, to that with which we are familiar. Sometimes the metaphor is useful, sometimes not. But even now, I'm skeptical that we're nearly at the point of understanding.
Exactly!
There is no end to how much we can understand and comprehend, to the number of relationships or connections we can form and interweave. It's like we are trying to define an absolute value of an irrational number. We can comprehend the "macro" scale of the number and its applications, but we can never understand or determine a discrete absolute true value of it. Truth is an ever converging point, between what we perceive and what is. And what is, is fundamentally irrational and infinite, and can not be completely grasped by any tool or technology.
Yes, which is why all the recent "AI" hype is overrated. Even single celled organisms seem to have sentience - it's something special that we share with all living things....
is this inspired by Justin Riddle's quantum consciousness course? or did you independently come up with the same idea
@@stevengill1736 I don’t think it’s special. Not truly, it’s just another part of chemical programming that can help in decision making.
It kind of scares me that we could maybe finally understand what consciousness is
why?
consciousness is reality experiencing itself
Not from penrose or any other famous scientist at least. That''s for sure. Donald Hoffman might be on to something, we'll see but at least he has more than modele you can't calculate and is approaching from the right way, not entirely ass backwards as every psych scientist studying the topic for the last 30 years. Brilliant minds all but as they start, write and end their theories within our spacetime believing it to be fundamental which it isn't we won't get an inkling of wht it is from these people untill they start following their own fields and physics latest breakthrough science which have actually made progress and have claculable hypothesis for their theories and the more they do it the more opens up. The physics part that inspired hoffmans work is already well acknowledged, We'll see, but it won't be from these old farts set in their indoctrinated dogmatic views.
Yhea like it's a deep truth and we don't know if it is gonna be good or bad.
This would explain how consciousness can be transmitted into a physical biological form and experience reality in tangible format - it doesn’t mean that is how consciousness is created, more like the brain… or these crystalline structures if you want.. are extremely advanced quantum antenna. Ofc materialists will say otherwise.
I know next to nothing about modern science, but I really enjoyed your video, learned new stuff and got excited for the future! It's clear that you care about how to interpret information, without hyperbole or bias. Instant subscribe!
Scientists in 2024: "Consciousness is quantum!"
Heisenberg: "And even that is uncertain."
Meow
“The cosmos is within us..We are a way for the universe to know itself.”
― Carl Sagan
Well done!
everything is lmao
That's not how the principle works. It doesn't mean "nothing is certain".
It was always fun to watch people saying that quantum effects only belong to extremely low temperatures on LCD screen, with all data delivered by optical cables.
The hubris of humans lol
Yeah, my understanding of physics is pretty rudimentary but doesn't *everything* have wave/particle duality but at the macroscopic level all the probability waves collapse so you're basically living in a Newtonian universe on the scale humans operate on?
Yes. And enzymes in your cells use quantum tunneling to catalyse chemical reactions - at body temperature. That has been confirmed by many labs now.
@wanderlking8634 WHAT???
Who said that? What does that even mean?
I think I suggested this in your comments (or mail?) a long time ago. Thx for doing a video on it!
Outdone yourself with the 4k graphics in this one Anton. Superb!
As you mentioned, but i want to highlight again: *Microtubules are everywhere* , they are essential for cell functioning, whether in the liver or the brain. In neurons, they serve among all their other functions *to transport neurotransmitters to the synapses* . It is not really surprising that there are quantum effects in these proteins (or enzymes, really). It is however a stretch to thus conclude that consciousness "is quantum" (whatever that may mean). That's similar to claiming that consciousness is proton-based (bc. H+ ions play an important role in the mitochondrial respiratory chain that is needed for the brain to operate, and also pH-levels are important to cell functioning) -- technically true, but beside the point.
There are over 80 benzine rings in each a and b protein making up mt's. There are other proteins that connect those proteins in 2, 3, 4, 5, 6's. Some connect them in hexagonal forms, for supposed long term memories. They produce frequencies, within frequencies, within frequencies, in higher and lower orders. Sounds like signals and codes to me.
@@mikepatnode4407 If you hit a tree log with a hammer, it produces frequencies within frequencies, in higher and lower orders. This in itself does not mean that these frequencies are relevant to understanding the tree. They may still be informative, and do reflect the shape and material properties of the tree, which reflect the life history of the tree, making them "long term memories", if you really want them to be. A railway has acoustic properties, but those are not what it's used for.
The relevant question here is: Is this an epiphenomenon/biologically relevant --- are they in fact signals, as in: received and decoded somehow, or are they simply properties of a system that does other things with the structure that happens to also have these properties.
And then a follow up question of course is: If they serve a biological function, which one is it? And why don't the microtubules in the cells of the liver or the spleen implement consciousness through their quantum effects?
This. It's an interesting result (assuming it stands) but right now we don't understand how minds arise from brains which means what's physically going on in the brain is only linked by correlation - and assumption - to consciousness. There's a mechanistic gap (maybe more a chasm in fact :) between the brain and the (seemingly not even physical) mind and at the moment it seems verging on unbridgeable, which this result doesn't change.
(although i'd say that up until around 20 years ago it _would_ have been very surprising - as noted in the video, cells were thought to be "too hot and wet" for quantum coherence and though we've seen evidence for it in other chemical pathways, direct evidence for it happening in the brain does close off _one_ - IMO fairly minor - "loophole" against consciousness being a fundamentally quantum phenomenon)
@@1Cr0w of course nobody knows what consciousness is. But I think it is feelings. If you get shot in an organ it hurts, and hurts there. The pain, how it happend,when it happened is stored in the brain. I don't think you can bring back that pain, other then you stands to reason it's inside of neurons, (in dendrites coming in and going out/ axons just going out.) Have a better chance of creating and dispersing it
Hi @@1Cr0wthanks for sharing. I wouldn't go as far as to say that it's impossible and out of the question that the microtubules in liver may effect into consciousness through their quantum effects.
All the best, take care ❤
Great presentation of a highly technical subject for the lay community. Kudos Anton.
Fantastic video. Great work Anton. I’ll have to discuss some of the science at some point on my channel. Great work!! ❤
Exciting is right. Fascinating stuff, Anton.
Let's be clear, what Penrose argues is that understanding cannot be algorithmic and thus produced by computation. This is a direct result of Gödel's Incompleteness Theorems, and the corollary is that AI will never be able to understand what it does and be intelligent. This is why I call AI: Artificial Ideation.
Secondly, nobody is ditching out the computational nature of neural networks. Hameroff and Penrose argue that there is quantum computing in addition to algorithmic computing in the brain.
Where both go astray is in their materialistic insistence that consciousness must be generated by the brain. What they are discovering is the interface between consciousness and the brain, or rather, how consciousness manifests itself in the physical brain. Alas, it will take a few more years before science runs head-on into the wall where it's heading and is forced to admit that consciousness is more fundamental than matter. For that, follow the work of Donald Hoffman.
👏👏👏 This, completely.
Anton, thanks so much. I'm writing something from yet another angle on the same subject. And Quantum Consciousness, along with Sabine's recent show on emergence, have totally filled in the last missing puzzle pieces. I'm so happy today. Thanks for all your passion and effort, while raising great kids at the same time.
This is extremely cool, deeply intrigueing, although way over my head...(I'm a visual artist} Now to find out more---even if I'm just skipping over the surface. Loved your smile at the end! ;-) Oddly, the upcoming family members include more and more scientists.
My biggest fear is dementia. Thanks for the video. Gives me hope.
Look into Methylene Blue. Some find it useful for maintaining brain function. Do your own research as YMMV.
We already know what we need to prevent it and fix it. But the pharmaceutical companies are trying to figure out how to prolong dementia so that any medication they develop will be used for decades. There is no profit in cures. Prolonged, low grade suffering is profitable.
@@holeymcsockpuppet there are muliole reasons, why this does not make sense. I can send you a video where a guy is explaining, why this won‘t work. Tell me, if you are interested. (it is in german but there is autotranslate for subtitles)
Thought dementias etc. originated in braincell mitochondrial dysfunction generally caused by sustained chronic inflammation & insulin resistance.
Eliminate carbs from diet + fast 36 hours each week (e.g. eat breakfast then don't eat until the evening of the next day), also add a 5-day fast once every month or every quarter and you'll be in a much, *much* better position cognitively. Dr. Thomas Seyfried considers just *one* 5-day fast *per year* to be sufficient to reduce your chance of cancer by 45%. Just once...
There are vast benefits by doing this (fat loss, cancer-halting, systemic anti-inflammatory side effects, thyroid function improvement so more resilient immune system etc.).
Look up the channel Pottenger's Human for more info on this, he tends to provide proof/"receipts" for the claims I made before e.g. links to studies finding statistically significant results that can be cheaply implemented by anybody who simply has the knowledge.
I had Alzheimer’s; cured myself. Used what I learned to develop the world’s first effective covid protocol (neigh identical to Dr. Zelenko’s, but about 6 weeks earlier); Last year set the record for the oldest person to ever grow naturally at age 50 (Adam Rainer is the overall record holder at age 51 with Acromegaly/giantism).
When Roger Penrose first proposed this back in the 90ies, practically everyone thought he was out to lunch, but I thought he was on to something. Glad to see he is being vindicated.
Very interested in any future videos on this, Anton! Thank you for sharing the research and explaining it so well!
Thanks Anton, this topic really was a massive workout for my Brain. I'm not sure if I understand it completely but it's certainly a lot to think about, I think I'll just keep WAVING AND TRY TO STAY WONDERFUL. PEACE AND LOVE TO EVERYONE ❤❤.
Lol, all these scientists sitting there saying that’s way too crazy to be true… yet here we are, talking, thinking, living, existing out of nothing. Why are they so adamant consciousness must be in the brain and the basis for consciousness must align with old science? Life is way too extraordinary.
Because evidence currently shows consciousness probably resides in the brain and one new study doesn't instantly overturn all of that
@@catpoke9557 I guess it all depends on what you construe as evidence. If it’s what you can verify with man made equipment and the current understanding of man’s mind, then sure. If you’re willing to accept human experience as evidence then we have a different discussion. The problem is it’s a I’ll believe it I see it world… so we took a few hundred extra years to agree the earth was round. In hindsight the earth being flat is a ludicrous idea. One day, people will laugh at the idea of consciousness being inside the brain. Plenty have had larger experiences that it’s not and that it is everything and everywhere but they’re not believed because 99.5% of people still believe they are the thought in their mind. They have never even investigated who it is that is watching and “knowing” the thought or who is there when the thoughts are silent and yet we are still there somehow… “knowing” we are. Once you experience that, and then follow that experience of knowing you are without thought, it leads you the place current science is not will to see.
I never thought of it that way.
The brain is a hunk of fat full of salt and electrodes. That thing is capable of naming itself and what we assume is self awareness and consciousness…
Why couldn’t those conditions be met in some other fashion?
So are LLMs
@@catpoke9557absolute BS. There is no solid evidence that it resides in the brain.
Saw this in the exact right time was dreamt about things last night to dedicate my whole life to this research as I medical student interested in consciousness and psychology since before my tween years, I appreciate you man love the content
That’s awesome
I’m glad you decided to wait to cover this topic and highlight the new study. I had learned about it elsewhere, but it is really interesting stuff. There is so much we don’t yet understand.
A psychologist I know often says that he thinks medicine and psychology will merge into one subject or field in the future. I partly disagree as I think the fragmentation of the different sciences is here to stay, for a while at least... but I also think that new synaptic connections between the different sciences will happen more often and get more and more attention, support etc, from now on.
@@jonaseggen2230 No, they are right, we misunderstand so many things in certain fields because we don't see the truth. The fields of study are connected, it can only be seen by those with the eyes to see the truth because this truth lies hidden outside the light in the dark places. We have been tricked, we have been lied to intentionally, and in bathing in the lie we are we lose the eyes to see the truth. I have become the physical manifestation of that truth as somehow all of you have flowed into me and lifted the veil and given me the eyes to see the truth. In knowing, in becoming aware of the truth, my individuality, my life is forfeit. I seek the voice to spread the truth and root out the lie that plagues us all. I am you and you are me. We are part of a greater whole. I cry out to be heard before we venture into the next catastrophe caused by the lie.
I am an anesthesiologist and neuroscientist, and this is just goofballs making stuff up. Its like claiming the radio makes a car work... um, okay, sure.👍🏼🤣
@@alanpeterson6863 If you say so
I wish I could remember his name but someone on X was saying just last month they got approved to study the affects of Ultrasounds on microtubules to treat Alzheimer’s and dementia in America. This video seems timely!
Damn. This might be the start of the biggest breakthrough in history if results are positive.
Mysticism/theology/consciousness/quantum entanglement thinking has been around for quite a while. The work of Marja de Vries and Amit Goswami have both independently done an excellent job of relating the implications of consciousness + quantum phenomena with pretty much everything else. It is great fun to live in a time when such divergent thinking is "merging" to better understand the ultimate truth. Thanks for this excellent video.
Oohhh this was an exciting one, as a 25 year old who fears neurological disease (and is curious about consciousness) I hope this bread crumb leads somewhere big!
Why would you fear a neurological disease specifically? Especially given that if you had a severe brain injury you likely wouldn't even remember that fear, so you're only making yourself suffer in the meantime for no benefit. Just relax! :p
As someone who has a panic disorder, it gives you a taste of how much your brain can mess with perception and make life a living hell. They are right to be afraid of neurological diseases. A brain injury that makes you forget everything is not the same thing as a progressive disease like Alzheimer’s. I’ve seen the effects of that too, and it’s terrifying. The idea of even forgetting the coping mechanisms you’ve learned over your life to deal with the fear and paranoia that comes with a disease like Alzheimer’s. Yes, that is terrifying.
@CampingforCool41 What you've said makes no sense. You're afraid of living miserably in the future so therefore you are going to live miserably now worrying about something that hasn't even happened yet? I can promise you you're problem is you isolate yourself and think too much. Please talk to others more and do more, for your own sake and others.
@@JoshKaneTalks Have you ever had a panic disorder before? A psychotic episode? There are things no amount of socializing are gonna fix because the brain is going to do what it’s going to do. It’s called mental illness for a reason. My point is, there is legitimate reason to be scared of Alzheimer’s. And yeah it’s great and all to not worry about the future but when you know you have a high likelihood of genetically inheriting it it’s pretty hard not to worry about.
@CampingforCool41 I have incurable chronic health illnesses and have had severe general anxiety at childhood. As an adult I'm not going to worry about my future because it isn't guaranteed for anyone. It is illogical. Simple math. When you were born no one promised you a certain amount of time or said life was serious. You're doing it to yourself brother. I've been there. Go outside. Do things. Keep busy by doing things for others especially. You're promised as much as everyone else.
As a person suffering from bipolar 2 and severe depression, consciousness and the way we perceive reality has piqued my curiosity for quite some time. I love being alive in the golden age of scientific discovery. I desperately hope we figure out the brain sooner rather than later.
"piqued"
sorry i'm OCD.
@@HarryNicNicholas how dare you correct someones incorrect usage of a common phrase, you're soooo OCD omg
As a bipolar 1 person I agree lol, science and philosophy can’t accept or agree on why we are conscious, it has to be something a little more than what either of them say
So bipolar is just quantum entanglement?
You're assuming consciousness is emerging from the brain, and not the other way around 😊
I watched Sabines version of this earlier. It was great. I don't like to choose between favourites but Anton is the GOAT.
I will always choose Anton over Sabine ❤
I like Sabone more 😢
@@jessicaheger1880 She's hit or miss for me.
@@bjdefilippo447same. Sometimes she gets political and it's jarring for a science channel. I dont wanna hear any of it 🙄
Sabine is actually being financially...cohersed in to ripping on certain people, and to promote key ideas that those in power want pushed.
I don’t have a scientific background but the most intriguing theory I’ve heard bout consciousness is that it’s a universal field that exists everywhere and brains are like antenna tapped into the field. People have reported experiences after being clinically dead or losing consciousness. It also can add some answers to the universality of expression across animals how we all express emotions similarly, behave somewhat similarly based on cognitive power, etc.
Actually true, i watched many nde's experiences and it seems there is some pattern or a process.
This is how my NDE was - and the question was asked of me “ what vibration of consciousness do you want to animating your body?” The most powerful question I’ve ever sought to answer.
@@danrayson that makes no sense
@@danrayson How can you know?
@@danraysonVibologie said "I witnessed something once", he could experienced something (not specified) but we don't know the context. He was drunk? He was at a public or private place? He was hallucinating? The context of something matters so it makes sense a sentence or affirmation to prove if he's saying the truth or if he's being fooled by his senses.
I love the longer format! Keep it coming
Yes! I’m so thrilled you are covering consciousness Anton! ❤❤❤ I can’t wait to watch.
Should cover the actual work getting actual evidence, not imaginatory unprovable stuff like penrose and all others in psych pretty much who are still living in the last millennium with their neverending fantasy hypothesis
This is mind blowing or conscious expanding, love it . Thanks for sharing. Your episodes you put out are great i cant believe you find the time for all us Thank you again.
Thank you very very much for putting all this together. I am interested these subjects myself: including the Buddhist theories of conscience and the, supposedly, perceptions of inner lights and aura's coming from kundalini and meditation. This seems to have some relevance and I'm guessing a lot of swami's are lapping this up. But I cannot deny being intrigued myself.
It's lso almost my birthday and someone asked me what I would like. I couldn't think of anything that I need; but now I remembered that I still want. And it's a wonderful person T-shirt.
Excellent video, now we know what and where to think about this.
Obviously in the brain for thinking, but what is the thing in the brain at the heart of this.
Beautiful video. Explained in depth. Great info and presentation.
It never fails to amaze me that we understand and know more about physics and the universe in many aspects than we do about our own biology, psychology and health.
Well, we are the most complicated things in the known universe.
@@Naptosis That's awfully anthropocentric.
@@jackkrell4238 In the KNOWN universe.
@@jackkrell4238 It's also true.
@@twrecks6279 No, actually. We are just meat machines operating on electrical impulses inhabiting an oblate spheroid hurdling through the ever vast cosmos at the end of the day. We're not special. Get over it and grow up.
Possibly the most important frontier in science. What us the true nature of our conscious selves. And, as usual Anton, a brilliant piece of science communication 👏 Classical materialism, biological and neuroscience have as yet failed to produce any answer to what is consciousness and where does it stem from. In science that usually points to the need to take a new direction. I think quantum physics may hold the answers 👍
Quantum Consciousness is just the universe thinking "what is the meaning of life?" 😂😂😂
life
life
life
42
That's what they say in Babylon 5, that Universe _created life_ because it's trying to figure itself out.
Or something like that.
Or as if it's questioning why it decided to give birth to itself. 🤯
Correct: US... Because the Universe IS US... And we... IT!
Whoa, that is mindblowing! I'm hyped to get more updates on this.
Cells out self individual neurons process information
I cancan spoil it for you. It will 99% sure evolve into being wrong. There is actual research rewarding with actual scientific proof whereas all other consc hypothesis from the last 30 years, this included, have not produced a single shred of evidence on anything tangible re: Consc.
The underlying problem is that all theories and studies in every field of any science, soft or hard assume spacetime ie our universe is fundamental and the start their study, do the guesswork within, and end their study (in consc study concludes we have no idead how to study any of these in a scientifcal satisfying manner.
It's been shown in physics our spacetime is neither real reality nor fundamental in any way, thus many hypotheses are moot just from that fact alone because the theory starts,continues and ends within spacetime and all conclusions are done within spacetime with outdated and sometimes outright fraudulent people, followin a status quo .. Not talking in general but for example topics such as consciousness etc. Intangible things we dont understand in any way but still most
it's interesting how since we now live in a technocratic world, the idea that "Consciousness is just a computer" will be fiercely enforced and promoted, since there are whole tech industries and fields of computer sciences that are based entirely on that premise.
When reality could actually be so different.
People struggle to fathom that it may not JUST be: "that there is much we don't know yet (as in through science)" -- but that the things we think we know CAN be very wrong.
i agreed. it does make some busy work for scientists though. consciousness is out of the realm of science in my opinion though i do think it will be possible to mimic it someday
Using the computer as a metaphor for the brain has been pretty much dropped by anyone who studies the brain - neuroscience has progressed enough to show that brains are not at all like computers. Philosophers still use the metaphor, but they don't know what they're talking about most of the time anyway.
@@nycbearff As per Heidegger, every time a new technology is developed, it seems to distort the way we think about things at some ontological level (until something comes along to shake it up). With Descartes, it was the "clock-work universe" -- now it's the "computational universe".
I much prefer Whitehead's "organismic universe" -- it's far less discrete, and is closer to nature imo.
My favorite part of this story is where one of the smartest people on earth was ignored for years about his idea
It often be like that...
This is insanely interesting. I am glad you covered it!
Anton, you wonderful person. As one of the poors I would like to politely say I cannot afford the Overton window.
Im a psychiatrist and this is huge. Makes alot of senses that it could work this way better esp more as a symphony than a computer bc this is what you see phenomenologically clinically. Depression, anxiety, OCD, ADHD definitely have these symphonic characteristics. Our term, “cognitive dissonance” which is a great and accurate descriptive term really resonates (no pun intended) with the symphonic idea.
Collective intelligence, look up Michael Levin's work in it. My work is on the organ portion to whole peron and globe, his works are (sub)cellular to whole organism.
Lots of overlaps in our works.
@@Nah_Bohdi Our intelligence is not our own. Our ego hides the truth from us. There is a fabric of consciousness undergirding the physical reality in which we reside. This collective consciousness flows into all of us. It is our meager awareness of this consciousness that produces man's intellect. Some have a bit more unconscious awareness of this consciousness, and they are the minds that push us forward and help us grow, not in numbers but in awareness. This is the true origin of that spark of brilliance. Your intellect is not your own but all of us speaking through you. The truth is known, and it seeks to be heard. One piece to the puzzle yet remains, the truth must find a voice so loud that all can hear it. Be filled with joy for the truth has an unshakable faith in you, and it will find a way to make us whole again.
Could this point to the possible existence of the soul?
@@dranlan8093 The soul is real, there is a part of us that will subside back into the fabric of consciousness undergirding our physical reality when we pass. In this capacity we all will live on
@@dranlan8093Depends on what a soul even is or is supposed to be
You are an incredible science communicator! Keep up the good work!!
Science comunicators are like the tabloid press for science, i wouldn't put much credence in what they say as it's usually fraught with errors and even fundamentally entirely upside down compared to cutting edge science,
He's here to make a buck and the best way for him to do it is a science "communicator" as that is something he vaguely seems to have some familiarty with.
Mainly the dogmatic parts of it, which aren't science or the attitude driving it sure as hell isn't.
He seems a nice dude and is probably one of the least sensational and least errorprone within his field of youtube content creators doing science "communication" or one sohuld say mis/dis/info as it was trendy a while back. :D
Is anincredible scy comm kinda like a contemporary jouirnalist? believeing what he is said (science and belief, the 2 same sides of the different coin ) Essentially via appeal to authrotiy regurgitating what you are told without a critica lthought ever passing their mind as long as i get paid. I bet a jewtube account even as shitty as his garners a boatload of money in that eus most corrupt shithole he originates from.
I think this is all backwards:
Quantum computing REQUIRES exact predictability/zero error. So absolute zero temp.
Biological organisms have no such requirement. Does entanglement exist at room temp in Nature? Why not. Does it serve a useful purpose that we can measure? That's two questions. Possibly and probably not.
The wind blows (quantum effects) and it's pleasant (measurement), but what purpose does it serve?
If the wind stops blowing (xenon) and the organism passes out, we can surely infer that the "wind" is a necessary component to a conscious state. This is NOT to infer that consciousness IS quantum in nature. A component, sure, but not the underlying strata.
This is a very interesting piece, and the graphics are an excellent compliment to your narrative. I believe that resonance is also part of the biological mechanism of Chloroplasts in photosynthesis. It would be interesting to look at that and compare.
Alison, did you know that JS Bach wrote this Goldberg Variations for a Count Goldberg who couldn't sleep. Bach's remedy for the Count's insomnia was 30 variations in the key of A. (I myself see A an an electric blue. Musical here).
Therefore, the idea is not only that the frequency of A might have anesthetic properties related to consciousness/unconsciounsess, but the fact that A432 scientific tuning being relative to Sacred Geometry makes prefect sense if you think of microtubules as crystal structures.
Schumann Resonance
*complement
@@PhillyAnthonyD you spell compliment different to us? Is that American spelling?
@@homebuddha No. Compliment and complement are two different words, and they mean different things. In the context of what she wrote, complement is the correct word.
finally, you arrived at the conversation I was waiting for you to discuss. good job mate
Ok Anton... this is the story, an example of the reason why you are amazing and your channel deserves to be well known and respected as it is... I was looking for an interesting "good-night" scientific knowledge/discoveries video sort of thing, and my UA-cam selection failed me so badly, with many pointless clickbaiting videos and suddenly your channel appeared and that was an immediate relief, felt at ease, felt like learning, and felt like sharing knowledge, not listening to a robotic reader voice. All my best
I remember talking to a coworker in the medical field who had previously worked closely with anesthesiologists and he talked about how weird it was that there was a chemical/gas they could just give you that turned your brain off.
Do people dream while under the gas?
so a chemical/gas can overwhelm the very quantum properties of the brain huh?
@@i-never-look-at-replies-lol not overwhelm, the neurons lose quantum coherence. It's like turning off a very large interconnected system at every point, like a transistor of a CPU, off all at once. Quantum coherence is what leads to consciousness as per Orch OR.
@@daveloya6510 I dreamt while being under for surgery. In fact, I woke up in the midst of it and began telling one of the nurses about my dream. Turns out you can have a high tolerance for anesthetics.
Except your brain _isn't_ "turned off" under anaesthetic, it's just in a different state (your _mind_ is arguably "turned off" but one of my issues with many people's takeaway from this result is, those are categorically NOT the same things and given that how minds arise from brains is still almost entirely mysterious to us, results about one _barely_ relate to the other).
As Anton says in other words, interesting as it is this tells us basically _nothing_ about consciousness beyond that, assuming the result stands, it's now not considered _physically impossible_ for it to be a quantum phenomenon. To me that's a pretty low bar to clear.
It seems logical to me that almost any phenomenon will be quantum by nature - just as almost any phenomonon will be by nature affected by gravity, or the electromagnetic force.
by definition they are. the only difference between these tubules and any other activity is that we can measure them because the connection is longer. it is very hard to have measurements of chaotic interactions and get maningful data from it. most of modern science communication is nothing more than pop-science. this study has nothing to do with conciousness.
That "by nature" is doing a lot of heavy lifting though. Silicon chips for instance are "quantum by nature" in the sense you seem to mean (we can't understand or model them fully without quantum physics) but standard computers (using silicon chips) are still _classical_ "by nature".
In other words yes, the classical world "arises" from quantum physics (the quantum description _is_ fundamentally how the universe works as far as we currently know) BUT it's still different _by nature_ (i.e. we don't see classical objects in quantum superpositions - cats are _either_ alive or dead :) - and we don't see Bell correlations - entanglement - between e.g. footballs).
@@anonymes2884 classical is simplyfied view of world similar to newton vs einstain. we cant find quantum superpisitions from chaos but that does not mean they are not there. you can take single interaction and follow causation to both direction and realize that uncontrolled chaos is impossibly complex. from the interaction to any amount of time forwards or backwards.
"Quantum effects" and "Body-temperature Quantum Entanglement" are not the same things!! Quantum dot LEDs and tunnel diodes are all working at room and higher temperatures with "quantum effects" but none of it brings closer or suggests "entanglement".
I wish I saw this earlier! Thank you! I need as many explanations for the observation effect. I have stayed up many nights thinking about this. I'm also obsessed with the Fineman constant, lol.
After 45 years in Veterinary Medicine, a Master in Theology, and finishing a doctorate in psychology I would opine that consciousness is the fundament of reality, and is universally present in a fractal form. Your dog certainly is conscious.
I'm just an architect, but I've been interested in this topic for years, and I would generally agree. It is something like that.
The word "fundament" does not mean what you think it means. And if you're getting a doctorate in psychology, why don't you know how little is currently known about how the brain operates at a cellular level? Any claim about consciousness currently is pure speculation.
Is he allowed to have an opinion or are you the Thought Police?
@@joeimbesi99 so if someone has a response to another person's comment they are "thought police"? What are you, then?
I've read Roger's book Emperor's new Mind a few years ago and was absolutely blown away by it. Even before that, I was almost sure that consciousness was not just computational but after that book, I started to advertise the idea and book to everyone I meet 😀 How amazing is it that finally we have some confirmations
No, we _don't_ have _any_ confirmation that consciousness is a quantum phenomenon. We _do_ (seem to) now have evidence suggesting that some aspects of how _brains_ work relies on quantum effects but it's important to remember that _brains_ employing quantum effects _doesn't_ mean _minds_ are quantum phenomena.
Semi-conductors also rely on quantum physics for instance but standard computers (built on semi-conductors) are entirely classical. Increasingly it seems like photosynthesis relies on quantum effects but plants are not quantum phenomena. Etc.
So this is interesting work but it says basically nothing about consciousness per se (as Anton says, this doesn't show that consciousness is quantum, it only suggests that it's not _physically impossible_ that consciousness is quantum).
@@anonymes2884 You need proof to believe. I don't. Thanks for the essay but I'll make my own conclusions 🙏
@anonymes2884 whatever conciousness is it is not just a binary system with complicated rules. It's a hardware problem. All these people thinking if you add enough neurons and algorithms conciousness suddenly magically emerge have fallen too deep and lost all logic. 1 trillion on or off switches won't give you conciousness no matter how complicated you make them. It's something else for sure frankly quantum effect does make sense.
@@xBaRLoGxu should need proof yes wtf r u talking abt
@@purefnm7861 You don't need proof to believe something is true. Dare to dream and set your mind free
Best report you've had in a while! great job!
ORCH-OR is one of the most exciting theories out there.
A breakthrough in this arena is needed and perhaps this is it?
A funny thing I noticed is tryptophanes are very similar to tryptamines which are basically psychedelics. Given all the positive research happening in that area and the trip reports I read. It's an interesting idea how these 2 compounds interact and how it relates to the ideas proposed in this video. I hope someone studies psychedelics in that light because it could change the world
different vehicles to the same destination... ❤️ sleep meditation or other methods can be slower harder to learn without a teacher but still get you there.. It seems the cia gateway method uses sound to break through, i favor K personally as its safe clean non toxic and has a strong neuroprotective effect but its not always easy to get real K these days (wonder why lol)
They ALREADY are changing the world....hang in there gang, 2 more generations should see us on the upward projection...just gotta slow the doomsday clock🎉
Wow that’s literally mind blowing!
I always suspected it’s quite likely that consciousness is related to quantum physics but understanding the actual mechanisms and it’s implications for biology, philosophy, technology, medicine, neuroscience etc are huge!
I hope this gets us one step closer to solving the hard problem of consciousness!
If you read Hameroff's most read science paper on the secret of Free Will - that solves the Hard Problem. But it's when you realize that Penrose's "Negative resonance" is actually noncommutativity as precognition then you get into really wild paranormal nonlocal properties first realized by Olivier Costa de Beauregard.
I am a board certified anesthesiologist and neuroscientist. What you and many people are missing here is that consciousness is very well understood already, and in my profession I manipulate it with great precision and control on a daily basis. Human consciousness is the result of hundreds of billions of synapses firing between neurons, the flow of electromagnetic voltage potentials and complex neurochemical signaling, all of which are very well understood in extreme detail. Two things that aren't understood are the philosopher's use of the WORD consciousness, and the emergent network effects of hundreds of billions of neurons firing recursively. This is a desperate ploy to wedge magical-seeming quantum effects into neurosience for no apparent reason other than it "seems cool". The brain doesn't need to be quantum to be fascinating.
@@alanpeterson6863I don’t disagree I’m certainly under qualified to argue with you (:
But I think the general problem is just understanding what consciousness actually is in terms of the “being” of the phenomenon. Because it seems important to be able to say wether one thing or another is conscious in the way we understand it as a subjective experience that is at least somewhat aware that it is a subjective “being” and has some form of a self.
If we could understand this better and determine if something is conscious and to what degree it is conscious it would have major implications on Philosophy for example specifically ethics in particular.
The other “problem” that people are interested in is understanding the actual construction of the organism better to the point where we could potentially solve actual problems we couldn’t before such as medical conditions like Alzheimer that are mentioned in the video.
It is possible that this means nothing or that it would have major implications on our understanding of the human organism and the brain one would have to wait and see but saying we already know everything and there’s nothing more to learn and discover when actual problems we are unable to solve still exist seems self defeating and honestly a bit lazy.
this is not a new concept and the key limitation of the experiment is that the quantum effect cannot be determined to be either a cause of "consciousness" or the result of it.
Sure it can. The anesthesiology proves it somewhat simply, anesthesia effects the microtubules capability, when you're anesthetized you are not (fully) concious, therefore the microtubules have something to do with consciousness.
I can easily understand that disruption of the microtubules would block consciousness, but surely that is simply because nerve function depends upon microtubules, among many other things. So anesthesia turns neurons off yes and that involves microtubules in some way. It still seems to me that consciousness is an emergent effect from all those neurons interacting and that this study doesn't really address that - the neurons go off and so consciousness goes without any real quantum effects beyond chemistry.
@@timbergel8147 Well it would ultimately be the microtubules structure that is disrubted which leads to a loss of consciousness. It seems like the chemicals are just an interface for consciousness rather than the cause if it.
@@timbergel8147 well, saying it's an emergent effect doesn't really solve anything either. If you don't mean strong emergence ofc (which is basically magic), the subjective feelings, thought and all of that seem to be qualitatively different than anything that happens in the neural substrate, or anywhere in the world besides living beings, even. You know, "the hard problem", which tbf was defined later (1995) than the first book Penrose published on the topic of the mind (1989). From my interpretation (of a layman), Penrose's approach was to narrow down the space in which to search for answers by basically trying to tie the mysterious QM with even more mysterious consciousness, with hoping that physics research will give rise to a possible physical explanation of this phenomena while checking whether the quantum phenomena actually happen in our bodies and brains at all. These studies at the very least suggest the latter, although, just like you, I don't really see how it can solve the hard problem. But we never know, and I certainly hope it can help in doing exactly that
As someone who had been listening to people who had died and were resuscitated for over 20 years, I know that our consciousness is not in the brain. Even people missing large parts of their brains lose nothing. When you die, you leave this body and go back home, most people who died say this life was just like reading a book, or a play you participated in, or even an old coat you discard, you regard it fondly, but move on. You are only here to learn, experience and have goals you set before you come here. Listen to people who died and see what they say. They are the ONLY people qualified to talk about what happens to our consciousness when we die.
I truly believe our souls/spirits are created by God. Since the spirit is not material how can anyone study it?
But the problem is, they didn't die though. If they died they wouldn't come back. If we were able to revive a TRUE DEATH than yes.
@@mushroom11g55 Obviously, you know absolutely nothing about what these people experience and what happened to them, as well as the condition of their body. There are instances of people waking up in morgues a day after they were declared dead and brought to the morgue. So yea, they were physically dead. I would advise doing some reading about NDE's and learn something so you can actually comment on something you know something about.
@@mushroom11g55 If you listen to what people say when they cross over, many of them are given a choice, they are told they can stay or go back (although many more people say they were not given a choice, and they cried and begged not to be sent back here, but were forcibly "pushed" back in their bodies, pretty much against their will), and if they say they want to stay, they are shown what will happen to their families/friends and loved ones if they stay, so many of the people who had this experience chose to return here. You really need to do some reading/listening to what people who did die, they talk about what happened, and their are many millions of people all over the world who have reported this, more and more each day as we are able to bring people back after their bodies have completely shut down (if that is what it is, doctors declare them dead when their heart stops and brain function stops). I like to say most people don't believe in NDE's until they have one. Check out Harvard neurosurgeon Dr Eben Alexander, he thought just like you. There are dozens of medical doctors who devote much of their time now researching this, many of them had NDE's, and there are many more scientists and other medical professionals who are taking this very seriously, and for a very good reason. I grew up studying science and biology, and was an atheist for most of my life, but in the last 20 years I have spent a lot of time reading about this, and now have no doubt whatsoever about what we are and where we go when we die. The evidence (although anecdotal) is overwhelming.
@@hogweedblitz8739In your opinion, what is our purpose here then, specificially, to learn what? Be kind to others? Treat others equally (animals don’t, even to their own kind) Being helpful? Being honest? Procreating a must? Invent something? I’m still trying to figure it out. My fear is to do something or focus/shift my effort into something which may not be significant enough to accomplish my “experience” here.