My grail watch is my Omega Ploprof in steel, at age 62, better late than never !, my sentimental piece, is my Oris TT1 diver , it survived a career in 🚒, 🔥 firefighting .Long live Mid tier brands !. Well said in this video !!
Yes, the hobby is dying, at least from my point of view. The scarcity is a killer, the available pieces are too expensive, investors/ speculators are adding their layer…. I am losing interest in buying watches. A great topic, thanks for sharing.
I bought a rolex hulk on the grey market back in late 2017 probably £100 cheaper than rrp at the time. This was my first Rolex, a mate got me into the hobby I was comfortable knowing it’d just go up with inflation. I used to wear it everywhere and loved it nobody even noticed it or knew what it was. I fell in love with the hulk with its Rolex green shine at a time when i was new to hobby and youtube were debating wether it was ugly or not (can you imagine that now) The irony is i have a great investment yet i didn’t buy it for that and i cant wear or enjoy it for fear of theft.
James, right on point mate. Just about to pull the trigger on a blue Aqua Terra, tried getting an OP, but you can guess how that went. The Aqua Terra will join my Speedy, that will be my two watch collection for now. Keep up the good work. Cheers from NYC.
Exactly! I too looking at AquaTerra or Seamaster 300. As my one show piece. I have a boxfull of Casio, Citizen, Timex a couple of "Fashion Watches. Etc. It's not a hobby if you are buying to make a profit!?
Your tastes are very similar to mine. I had the first gen Aqua Terra and the 1861 Speedy too... however after plenty of time and wearing those, as well as getting to grips with the OP 36mm at an AD, I've converted to OP. They are just perfect watches...I don't own any watches apart from my G shock, having now sold the Omegas and I'm on the loooooooong waiting list for Green/ Black OP. I think it will be worth it even if they only call me in 3 years.. hopefully the Speedy which I bought at the AD a few years ago helps me in the queue.... enjoy the Aqua Terra. They are gorgeous. But I think the OP is worth the wait (for me anyway)
@Tony Risi they are great watches for sure. But I definitely don't like exhibition case backs. I prefer the simplicity and timelessness of the Rolex OP. I tried both on, and the OP was smaller, thinner and more elegant Just personal taste Edit: I'm not that bothered about co axial , or movements in general. A watch is so much more than just the movement. Rolex movements are very good too...omega may be better, but I prefer how the OP feels and sits on my wrist. To me that's much more important than the movement. Comfort and looks are more essential
Couldn’t agree more James. I love all my watches from my Omegas to my Casios, but consider them worthless, I took a long time choosing each one and would never sell them, hence why they are worthless, or priceless.
Excellent video. I remember when you first started UA-cam, and you put out a video where you said people made "mistakes" when you start with Tags etc and "it was best to not waste your money and save up for a rolex, ( I even remember the tone of your voice during that vid) so that you 'keep' having your money from not losing on depreciation, and now fast forward all these years after, and you say that you respect the purists who actually like the hobby and buy these tier watches for the love and for what they can afford. We all can't justify Rolex money, even if we saved for years and years. Many people were being brainwashed by that "Jewelers on time Ad" on AC3's channel about not losing on depreciation, rather than actually loving the hobby across all price spectrums. I also do remember many of the superchats (like 100 pounds one time and more) you gave AC3. My point is, I'm impressed with what you've said in this particular video.
Absolutely spot on!!! I've been collecting for 22 years. I remember when there was zero prejudice expressed by most enthusiasts when we discussed and compared Rolex to a Doxa, an Omega to zenith and jlc to vulcain for example. I sense we are at saturation point. So many "newbies" only aware of or having experience of very few brands and that's without delving into tje beauties that exist on the vintage side. I hope this all changes and that new enthusiasts maintain an open mind going forward. Love the content
There are definite exceptions to this as well I think. I myself enjoy "hype" watches but I also have some that people would call shitters as well. I have citizen and casio as well as Rolex and now Lange. I just buy what I personally like and try not to be influenced too much by the hype. Glad you are back James. Great vid
As a watch collector /purist I agree 100 percent with your thoughts. This is the reason most of my new pieces have been Tudor and Breitling. Omega is next! I'm so glad you're back!!
Couldn’t agree more. I recall the days walking into a gray market dealer and finding the Batman for a couple grand under retail, good old days. Purchasing because you loved it and not necessarily as a potential ‘investment’. Glad to see you producing more content James.
I find what you said here to be the truth. It's exactly what I've been ticked off about for the last 2 years. First the hype and then the investment class collectors who seem to get first shot on anything at the AD's. If we are watch enthusiast's we should be staying away from Rolex. Let the guys who know nothing about horology and collecting, the bankers, lawyers, and Wall Street scum have them. I'm no longer looking seriously at Rolex anymore because it's gone too far.
I am completely agreeing with you! And want to see more content about the watches you mentioned. I have a Speedy, Tudor BB but also a nice Tissot, Longine, CW in my collection. Some people on youtube call them shitters just because they don’t present the hipe. To me they are destroying the love for watches with there comments. There are beautiful watches offered by these brand, these people just don’t get it, because there are in the hobby for all the wrong reasons.
Every so often the UA-cam algorithms lead us to a good suggestion and that was the case for me this evening finding your channel. I've always owned one watch, usually an inexpensive Timex or Casio, but over the last few years have begun a low/mid level budget collection and find I really enjoy watches. I look forward to watching your content and learning more..
I'm in this hobby because I buy what appeals to me, whether it be a Doxa 300, Lorus Ana-digi, or a Seiko. I'm certainly not in the position (or mindset) to spent thousands upon thousands of dollars on a wristwatch, and I certainly wouldn't do it for speculation purposes if I did. I buy stocks, which is bad enough. 😆
James I couldn't agree with you more, this is a topic that has been on my mind for sometime, to a point that I want out of all this, there is an omega I want then I'll call it a day.I don't know any other channel that has said all the comments that you have, and that speaks volumes.
YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY spot on!!! I’ve been in this for 30+ years - “NEW”Rolex GMTs, Submariners, Explorers were NOT “collector” pieces, they were terrific professional watches that we knew we could wear with pride for a lifetime and then pass along to our kids… Today, all I hear is “what a great investment” and “you can’t go wrong with this purchase”. I know I sound like an old fuddy duddy….
Right on point. I remember way back 2013 when I walked in to the authorized Rolex AD and was offered a Sub date. Really want it but with no extra disposable income I had second thoughts. Finally got a Rolex SD 50th 5 years later at retail. Will never buy Rolex at the gray market. Would rather choose other brands at retail/discount.
I really appreciate your content, James. You are saying things that really need to be said. I don't much care for most watch content on UA-cam any more, because the hobbyist element is simply missing from most of them. The investment/trading/flipping crowd need to stop pretending to be hobbyists and leave those of us who simply enjoy our watches in peace.
Tim Mosso said, why would you pay £20,000 for a Submariner when you for that money you could buy a Vacheron? He has a good point. I guess 'investors' who don't actually care about the watch they are buying see it that way...
Your spot on . I’m sick to death of the same odious conversations on Rolex prices and growth in the market . In many ways the explosion of prices has forced owners to either sell or view Rolex as a commodity. I bought Rolex sports to wear and enjoy however I now have to keep them in a vault due to market value prices I don’t want them at home , this is a 50 mile round trip and inconvenient so they are virtually never worn . By default they have become commodities something I never wanted it has been forced upon me . The upside is i discovered omega which unquestionably are now my number one brand to wear and enjoy .
I've been watching watch review channels for years. Can't believe I missed this one! Great content. Glad I found your channel. Carry on the great work!
Liked the piece so subscribed. I love a load of microbrands and a load of Swiss/German too. I am on the list for Pepsi GMT (at a jewellers I have bought a few Tudors from) because I love the watch - six months ago, I got a call to ask "Which bracelet do you want?" - Rolex, not the AD, had told them to 'split their list' that way. I am now thinking bollocks to it, I don't want to be a part of this crap! Firstly, I agree with you about list publication (not data - just the number, like they do with the MCC) But, here's a thing. If all the dealers on West 38th Street in Manhattan all agreed to drop their used prices of Rolex by 25%, they'd shift the lot and the market would change. Kid you not, there is at least 20,000 steel Rolexes on that street! Anyway, Rolex (who get their cases made in China BTW!!!) are moving towards precious metals and Tudor is occupying the 'tool watch excellence' space Rolex grew their brand on. Anyway James, cheers - OOI interest, what do you think of Christopher Ward?
Glad you are back. I have been collecting over 40 years. Yes I have Rolex's, but as my collection evolved I learned the true meaning of high horology. I moved on to Breguet, ALS, V.C.,J.L.C., H Mosier and Cie and yes even F.P Journe. But that does not stop me enjoying Omega( Have all 3 Seamasters) and Seiko. Certain watches have now become like stock; hyped and traded. What collectors need to learn is simply don't play the game. Are you really trying to tell me that the Rolex OP 41 Tiffiney dial has the same value as a Breguet 7337 Classic? Are you kidding me. This is what the herd has been programed to believe. When the smoke clears it will not be pretty. LOL I have now gone a different direction. Instead of the herd mentality, I ordered a bespoke watch that is built just for me. A D. Dornbluth and Sohne. I picked the hands, dial, material, etc. I was told by other collectors that this watch would never go up in value. So what. To me this watch will be priceless.( The wait is 14 months. A lot less than a steel Rolex.) God Bless you and your family.
I couldn’t agree more. I have 1 Patek and 3 Rolex timepieces. I also have about 4 Invictas. I purchase what I love and calls to me. I believe investors are taking the fun out of the hobby.
I can’t agree with you more James. I bought my first Rolex in 2004 (a white dial Explorer 2) that had been with the AD for 2 years and they gave me a discount and a “thank God he bought it” as I walked out of the door. But the market has changed for the worse. Normal buyers trying to break into certain brands have no chance unless they have loads of disposable income. Real collectors have been priced out. But it is not just Rolex, it is AP and Patek etc. That said, there are some great brands out there that we can all enjoy, we just need to look wider
Absolutely spot on, James. What a refreshing 20min that was! It’s clear who you’re talking about and I’m in complete agreement, not least because these superchat hungry types often know very little about watches. They’re in Rolex for the money as they are UA-cam. For background, I own 2 Explorers as I agree they’re the best in the Rolex catalogue; 124270 and 214270 Mk2, and a new OP36 Green, all at retail from AD having bought just a Tudor BB58 blue and BB36 beforehand. My love is Sinn and Breguet. I’ve been harassing Sinn for a blue dial U50-t for a very long time now! I’m from Lancaster… sounds like you’re just down the road? Subscribed with no hesitation. I’ve seen you on the livestreams but didn’t realise you had a channel! Binge watch time😉👍
I'm very new to the hobby. I consider myself a purist, most of my watches are fairly inexpensive watches. I have some heirloom pieces that I could never part with due to sentimental reasons. Most of my watches are 300 to 500 range. Some vintage pieces that I adore but they are relatively cheap. I love them just the same as some people love their Rollies. Maybe one day I'll own a Roller, Omega, Sinn, if not I'm still happy for what I have. Most people don't have my tastes in watches.
Most You Tubers, or self-acclaimed watch celebrities, talk about one thing and one thing only - INVESTMENT WATCHES... and the content becomes more and more repetitive. Hence I do appreciate content like yours, or for what matters, some proper watch reviews, e.g. from Bark & Jack or The Watch Guys. This is enjoyable content for real hobby collector. Thank you James.
James you're spot on. However as somebody who's only been into the hobby for 3 years, I've never owned a Rolex and after trying several, I'm still very drawn to the classic 36mm size Oyster Perpetual... I have owned the 1861 Speedy and Aqua Terra (first gen Black), a seiko turtle and Hamilton Khaki field 38mm... I've sold everything, lost some money but it was worth it for the experience.... I'm looking for one versatile watch to wear daily in every scenario and to me, a collection of G shock square for all the really outdoorsy stuff and one OP for everything else will be fantastic. Really hate the Rolex game and all those flippers and investors. I will keep my OP. It will never see the inside of a safe and it really is annoying how hard I'll have to try to get one... but that's totally my choice based on loving the watch, not the hype ... end of the day its first World problems. We don't really need a watch the g shock does everything and more ... great vid matey
I really got into watches about 6-7 years ago and I have definitely noticed a drastic change. I too remember Explorer IIs in windows, I remember a second hand Submariner available in a window for £7,000. I'm thankful that I've never really felt drawn to Rolex. So I stick with my TAG Heuer collection, mostly 90s/00s.
My AD offered me in 2016 to buy both the ceramic and pre-ceramic at retail and I turned my back as I always saw it small on my rest size then the readability and the locked chronograph buttons , do I regret it ? From a market price now and the ability to make a profit sure yes , did I grow to like it surprisingly yes too , so looks like the hype got me .
I agree, most “Preferred” customers are flippers with contacts within grey market, so many 2021/ 22 unworn pieces for sale on these new-ish grey market dealers who are possibly the preferred customers in several AD’s
I don't remember the Batman being idle at the AD's... the SS craze began before the release of the Batman... I remember the discount days as well, bought my first Rolex in 1988, and again in 1994... I think with the wealth in Asia now and world wide demand, we're not going to see these watches sitting at the AD for some time... if ever.
I think that you have given an accurate assessment of the watch collection hobby, or hype, to some people. Like yourself, I love Hamilton, Certina, my beautiful grail....the SMP and some Seikos, including my prized, original one owner, (me) Cpt. Willard. I even enjoy some lovely quartz pieces such as Tissot and Hamiltons. The history is also an important factor in my choices. Thank you for a wonderful, truthful and entertaining assessment of our addiction. 👍😀
Thanks for your objective PoV! You ‘tubed my thoughts fairly. Horological love…my first watch I thought was momentous and the gradual movement in appreciation. Thanks man!
This goes on with other hobbies as well, Gibson Les Pauls recently and in the 90's it was Harley-Davidson. Hopefully it comes back to reality. It's nothing new, it's just the watch hobby's turn.
How well put!! I listened carefully and I agree. The hypothetical point to just put aside Rolex and all that comes with it these days-and make the hobby a happier place for us watch enthusiasts- SO true!
You are spot on in this video. Agree 💯. Though I have a few Rolex, I have others including Breitling, IWC, Hamilton, Bangalore Watch Company, etc. In fact, one of my favorites is my Ulysse Nardin dual time limited edition watch. Love your talks. Glad you are back. Cheers from Dallas!
You are spot on, and I think more and more people are getting fed up with the whole silly AD games. Like you, I have had several steel Rolex models over the years and now I only have the one - the 16570 Explorer II polar dial which is in amongst a collection ranging from Christopher Ward to Tudor to Breitling. I've definitely become jaded by the Rolex/UA-cam thing. Keep up the great content. Regards John
Bought watches that I like that I can afford. The fact they are also gaining value is great but not the motivator. I don’t see them as investments, it’s just a bonus that they aren’t depreciating (yet!)
Love this video. So very true. I have had Omega’s for many years and had a 34mm vintage manual wind Tudor since university. Also owned many a Seiko etc and have G-Shock square.
One more thing, about how I view the hobby: You CAN buy a cheap watch, and come home with a real POS. But you can buy an expensive watch, and also come home with a dog. On the other hand, you can buy an expensive watch that is worth what you paid, AND you can find some real gems down in the inexpensive segment. And my friends... ...THAT is the "sport" of this hobby. I have expensive watches and cheap watches, but ALL of my watches are nice. You have to do the homework. You have to do the reading. You have to look deep into what is being offered, and not let the price set your perception of value. DOING all of that is what makes this fun!! Just today I looked at the winder that houses my two Rolex, while watching this video. Then I went in the other room and opted for my $150 Steel Dive Subby. I love this watch! All day when I wear it, it reminds me of a day that I WON in the hobby, by finding something OUTstanding that was being offered for next to nothing. Like I say: This is FUN! Enjoy the hunt! If you are doing it to impress people, that won't be fun for you. In that case, find another hobby.
30 years ago, I walked into an AD in Zurich and walked out with a Sub. It was a shock when I tried to upgrade to the current Sub at an AD recently. Upgraded to a Superocean instead and am very satisfied.
Thanks James. you always make and talk sense I got so fcuked off with ac3 not watch him for over a year is he still shouting like a mad man as always xx from London
Oh yeah buying a Rolex is pure torture now and the opposite of fun!! Who needs that BS. I concentrate on fun watches like seiko, micro brands, Sinn, Oris, etc watches that don’t cost a car and then I mix them up with straps. That to me is fun and what the hobby is about, not stressing over some watch that costs 4 times retail with a two year wait list! 😂🤣🤣HA HA HA NO THANKS!!
Hey James, You just mentioned every average and normal timepiece enthusiast and collectors thoughts and beliefs. We all couldn’t care less about the “Luxury Archiebalds” of the world buying their Rolex’s and Patel Philippe’s.
I guess ur right the rolex hype is going all bad… whats u recommendation between the blackbay 41 burgundy or blue seamater300 41 lollypop sec hand?!! Would love to know ur opinion
Finally someone saying what I have been thinking for a while, there seems to be an elitist group on UA-cam just going around on each other’s channels and basically blowing smoke up each other’s holes whilst asking for people to send in donations.
It's freaky how each point you've made is exactly what I've been thinking for some time now. The only difference is you have been in the hobby a lot longer than I, I never experienced Rolex watches being sold in the window there and then. I think another factor is the world of Instagram, the so called flexing.
Don’t feel sorry for those recently finding the watch hobby. There are great watches readily available from a much wider range of manufacturers than any other time in recent history. One effect of the exposure/hype/price increase (on a relative handful of pieces) is an increase in competition. Ignore the hype pieces, dive in, and enjoy the hobby 👍
Totally agree about the super chat thing. I watch some really good streams, where the talk gets genuinely interesting, and then has to stop for a 1.99 question about what the panel think of something off topic! So frustrating.
You nailed it, and that's why I subscribe to your channel. I have a small collection, of Rolex, Omega, IWC, Hamilton, Casio...and I love this hobby to the core. I'm sick to death of the hype. I hope to see interesting talks like this one. Thanks
When both the guys who are selling and the guys who are buying high-end watches have to look over their shoulders literally 24-7 for fear of violent criminals....maybe it's time to move on from this hobby?🙁 I'm really starting to ask myself this... I mean, why make yourself a great big target? Paul was saying recently about Rolex (allegedly) being better to buy than property; well I guess low rent thugs can't turn up at 3am and steal a house from you, can they? So there's that...
For me it is just staring to die, i was watching the last episode of CRM jewelry, and on the same day they was asking for a submariner date $19500 , and was offering to a client $10000 for the same model , $9k profit wich is insane
It's all fun to me, including watching how other people view the world. I am retired. The Department of Veteran's Affairs saw fit to give me FULL retirement at age 50. That's when I picked up the hobby, 18 months ago when I was 50 and freshly retired. Sure, I own a couple of Rolex. I used my credit cards and paid for them over time. But the purpose is to wear them and enjoy them. I also own a couple of Pagani design cheapos because they are masterfully spec'd out and really nice watches that one can add to his collection for pocket change. I also own very cheap Vostoks...because I appreciate the engineering that goes into them. Price is not what attracts me. Of them all, my HONEST favorites are my 600-800 dollar Hamiltons. I won't write a long paragraph about the "why's," it just is. Man, I am a retired Veteran. Here at age 52, I have already impressed everyone I saw a need to impress in this life. Everyone else can see me on a day when I am wearing a $100 watch I like, and think what they want. If they happen to see me on a day when I am wearing a Rollie...it isn't going to make any difference. I won't care what anyone else thinks either way, so let them think whatever they want. My point: Enjoy the hobby for YOU! If you are doing it for anyone else, it will not be fun for you. ***PS: I bought both of my Rolex on the Grey market. Absolutely NO ONE is going to treat me like they are doing me a favor, when I am trying to spend 10 grand or more. Hell, I am not going to be spoken to that way when I am spending $10.00. Rolex AD's can kiss my Navy Blue balls. There is a way around them, and I use it!
Hi Jim. Found this video and decided to subscribe. You talk complete sense. I can afford to go grey and get my favourite Rolex ( like you Explorer 1). But won't. I would rather buy, as I did my last watch in Nov 2021. An Omega Seamaster AT. White dial 41mm on the rubber strap with the Orange accents. It's frankly stunning. The 8900 movement has to be about the best out there IMO. I wear it daily, and its dressey and sporty all in one. In 2.5 months it's running +2 seconds.... Overall!!! I am considering. Cartier Santos mid next. I love the style. But I know the movement although in house isn't going to do what the 8900 does for me. But it's a class watch IMO with great history etc. Anyhow. I like your style. Seem in it for the right reasons, and unlike for example Paul Thorpe. Don't just see every watch with a doller value attached. Good on you mate, and be interested how you see the Santos?
Superb video, buddy. I suggest that all of us who consider ourselves enthusiasts need to do our part, and flat out refuse to give any financial advice to these investors, because all we’re doing is giving free advice to people who don’t care about the hobby, nor care if they price all of us out of it.
Bang on the money mate, sad that they’ve become stocks n shares to high rollers. I’d like to hear your thoughts on the blancpain fifty fathom collection. It would be great if you did a video on them. 👍
You really nailed it with this comment. It’s sad how everything evolved. But seriously, the watch market is just a reflection of the entire market. Prices are ridiculous for many goods. People are having the fear of missing out and it’s fed by the volatility of other markets. Too much money on the accounts of few... that’s why a dream watch (for example a simple 5513) costs 20k euros instead of a healthy 4 or 5k. ...but I guess that’s how the economy works. It sometimes blows things out of proportion. Buy an old IWC and keep it forever:).
Totally agree with your train of thought, i would definitely come in the lower tier of collector's seikos, orient, etc when i was younger i aspired to one day owning a rolex now i can honesly say given unlimited funds if i was looking for a nice sports watch it would be omega all day long, ive stopped buying lower end watches now in the hope of getting a ( for me) grail watch in the 1k to 1.5k range. Watches like every other consumer product are subject to the law of diminishing returns , and i couldnt see me going above this amount.
Absolutely agree, especially with regards the live stream BS it started off interesting and has spiraled into a farce ...a fair few of them with little watch knowledge begging for 5 quid while wearing a 30k Rolex!
The hobby is NOT dying, and there is NO reason for it to die regardless what kind of approach some people decide to take. I have collected watches for 30 years, in the beginning it was mainly just an interest in watches and not so much the financial aspect, but of course it was always a desire to buy something that would keep value instead of buying something that would go down in value and in the end be worthless. Now the money aspect is even more at focus, but the passion has not died down one bit, it`s just that the financial aspect has grown. So no, passion has not died. I have always had more interest in vintage watches, this has not changed either. I got some very valuable watches, but the cheaper ones still gets my attention just as much. This week I bought a vintage Grand Seiko from Japan, price around £440, plus import duties, so not horrendous expensive, but the excitement I get when I open the parcel is just as high as if the watch was £5000 or £20.000, honestly. And who cares that someone is "only in it for the money"? Let them do what they want, and you can do what you want, everyone wins.
Nice video. I have a collection of 1960s black-dial sports pieces. Behind them it is not watches, but reaching for my childhood years and being able to feel it on my wrist, like a connection with the past, with very precious memories. The more patina and scratches, the better. That would be the 321s, the 5513s, the Seamaster300 or the Heuer Autavias. Bakelite, tritium, hesalyte. Watches made of aging materials - some call them "organic". Modern Rolex does not give that emotional connection that I seek, it is like a dead object. Other modern pieces also, even if technically they're far better engineered, but there's no magic in them, no life. None. Not in a modern Daytona, not in a RM, not in Nautilus. Dead metal. It is like comparing the city of Dubai - no history, no soul - and the awe you feel when you walk in the city of Venice.
I totally agree with your points. I went into AD and they had no interest in putting me on the “list”. The AD did try to offer me a refurbished submariner for $25,000. These AD’s have no interests with the list given they are selling these into the grey market. Consumer loses either way. This brand has lost my loyalty. Bad branding in my opinion
I couldn’t agree more, I’ve not get excited about Rolex for nearly two years, how can you if you can’t get one at retail. I remember the days you say, buying my first Submariner in 2012 where every model was available from the AD apart from a steel Daytona. Even these were only selling used for a couple £100 more than list.
I really wish more UA-camrs were talking about this topic. I've become so jaded with watches. I own two watches now: a G-Shock and a Speedy Pro. What more do I need?
I really wish that Rolex was not so hyped up. That way it would be easier for me to add another one to my collection. I picked up a Submariner a few months ago. I also have an Omega SMP300 incoming. I am looking forward to spending time with both of them.
Spot on James. I have the same Omega as you, but with the blue rubber strap. I think it’s a far better watch than the Sub. More comfortable to wear and certainly easier to read whilst diving in the Red Sea. I do follow TGV, whom I find to be a gentleman, with a wide taste of watches, much like yourself. However, I find Archie to be annoying and the opposite spectrum to TGV. Paul Thorpe gives some useful information, but I’m suspicious of a few of his trusted dealers and their motives. A very good appraisal of the Watch situation. Well done.
I don’t believe in “newbies”. When I started 25 years ago I was an expert on what I was interested in. At the time it was the Bond Omega. Then it was the 120m then the DeVille tonneau. Then I was an “expert” on Breitling. So on an so forth. We mistake “entry-level” collector’s for foolish collectors with no taste who like shi#%ers. They are NOT to be spoken to OR admired. They are to be shunned as we would shun a fool. The choice is not between investor class and fools. In fact there is no “choice” to be made. Just carry on collecting quality luxury watches. Your “levels” analysis is vapid. Pointless. Never have so many words been said about so little. Best advice: Avoid fools. Carry on.
Every watch in my collection I’ve bought to wear and enjoy (hopefully) for many years. My Sinn 103sa BE gets just as much wear as my Omega Speedmaster 1863, Rolex Submariner 124060 and Seiko SKX Ninja Custom. My criteria for adding a watch in my collection has to be the looks and how it wears.
Fantastic video. Agreed with the sentiment and I appreciate the deep dive into this topic, which is important to all of us who have collected for 10+ years
Great points especially about the You Tubers a bit too full of themselves. I’d add one category of enthusiast however to your list. I am a collector -of all brands- that is infatuated by the beauty and mechanics of specific watches; but I also buy them to wear and enjoy for awhile then pass them on at a modest profit. I learned this about myself after buying my fifth grail!! Rotating 50% of the collection and using profits to buy a new grail is the only way I could afford to enjoy the hobby.
I agree with you about not shitting on peoples watch choice's, However when someone shows me their new Armani, DG or BOSS watch, I have zero hesitation in telling them to take it back to the store and buy a Seiko or tissot instead. Buy a watch ffrom people who actually make watches, You wouldn't buy a car because it had an Armani badge? Well some idiots might?
I completely agree with this. I buy watches to wear but the price of many watches are now more than I could ever pay for "just a watch". If I wasn't buying in 2016 when a "Batman" was £7k for example, why on earth would I buy one now for £18k? It shows the current prices are driven by an influx of new money and speculation in my opinion. There is a huge amount of extra £££ factored in for future appreciation potential which is fair enough based on past trends but surely the appreciation can't continue forever.
Not true at all, anyone that has an interest in watches can buy a watch, my son just bought a 22 year old mechanical Seiko for £35, a great looking watch that keep great time. If you can`t afford a Rolex but you want one you can moan about it, or you can buy something interesting that is in your budget. I just don`t understand moaners that moan about issues like this, they will never be happy. I have collected watches for 30 years, and I was always happy to investigate and to buy any watch, regardless if the price was £50 or £20750, yes I got some really expensive stuff, and some really affordable, they are all great watches. Stop moaning. I think this is all down to the snobbery that a watch HAS to be a Rolex or the equivalent, news flash; it does not. If you have the passion you get it, if not you will not understand, and you will remain in a constant unhappy state always want what you can`t afford. Get a life.
@@truxton1000 fair points. I don't care for Seikos, Casios etc. so it doesn't apply to me but it must be great for those satisfied to hunt in that level of the market. It's not so much about outright budget for me, more value for money compared with a few years ago.
I'm a 61 year old who adapted and went the smart watch route, came back to real watches cause they will never become obsolete don't run out of juice at the end of the day and I can have 3 sub 100 dollar pieces that will last longer than my galaxy watch.
Rolex does own are part of the responsibility. They surely know what is going on. However, I believe social media (UA-cam, Instagram, to a lesser degree Twitter) have created a hype machine that is so powerful that it is unlikely that the Average Joe will be able to buy a steel Rolex at MSRP within his lifetime. This is a bold statement, but I do not see things returning to pre-2010 levels. It would take something extraordinary for the watch-collecting community to lose enough interest in the brand for it to return to "normal". I can't think of any situation where that would happen. As always, another good video.
James, couldn't agree more. The last 2 years were pretty special. This situation has to cool down when things get back to normal again. If Rolex will become more available again depends a lot on Rolex themselves and how they deal with the AD issue. Good to have you back, keep up the good work!😎👍
Well said. I already stop collection rolex and pp which are the only two brand I collect If it comes, I will buy it at msrp Otherwise I’m ok with not buying any watch
You're right, James! But it's what happens naturally in capitalism. Tell me which brand isn't going the Rolex route if they have the chance. 😉 I'm trying to get a nice pair of Nike Air Pandas at the moment and I could get them right away. But for triple retail! 😅😜 So everybody's doing it, if they have the market position. You can call it unfair and many people aka customers will approve. But it isn't the job of a company to distribute fairly like in a communist economy but to generate revenue. - Just my humble opinion 😉
I found a datejust TT for $49 at a local pawnshop, I sold for $2k, Rolex doesn't establish market value on their watches,if you can't get one then it is what it is. I've been collection for over 30 years and I have no complaints against Rolex because the gray market is going crazy with pricing. Rolex was there 30 years ago and it will continue to be there regardless of popularity or aftermarket pricing.
Great insight. You are totally on point. I started the hobby fairly recently. I am definitely in it for the love of the watches. I refuse to pay stupid money for a Rolex on the gray market. If things normalize and I manage to find one at an AD, sure I’ll get it if I’m able. But until then I am quite content with what I have. And there are so many great watches by other brands besides Rolex. Like that Seamaster 300M you are wearing. I have the same one and it is fantastic. Many hobbies have gotten ruined for me by those that choose to try to profit off of something. And regarding UA-camrs, there are some that I like and have good information. But sometimes you have to take their information with a grain of salt. Keep up the good work! Cheers!
My grail watch is my Omega Ploprof in steel, at age 62, better late than never !, my sentimental piece, is my Oris TT1 diver , it survived a career in 🚒, 🔥 firefighting .Long live Mid tier brands !. Well said in this video !!
Looked it up and what a nice watch
Yes, the hobby is dying, at least from my point of view.
The scarcity is a killer, the available pieces are too expensive, investors/ speculators are adding their layer…. I am losing interest in buying watches.
A great topic, thanks for sharing.
There is still great stuff out there, just not in Rolex or steel trinity. I am developing a passion for Cartier and Omega is an all time classic
@@asura2545 Cartier, Nomos, Grand Seiko, FP Journe
I bought a rolex hulk on the grey market back in late 2017 probably £100 cheaper than rrp at the time.
This was my first Rolex, a mate got me into the hobby
I was comfortable knowing it’d just go up with inflation.
I used to wear it everywhere and loved it nobody even noticed it or knew what it was.
I fell in love with the hulk with its Rolex green shine at a time when i was new to hobby and youtube were debating wether it was ugly or not (can you imagine that now)
The irony is i have a great investment yet i didn’t buy it for that and i cant wear or enjoy it for fear of theft.
Rolex have lovely designs
James, right on point mate. Just about to pull the trigger on a blue Aqua Terra, tried getting an OP, but you can guess how that went. The Aqua Terra will join my Speedy, that will be my two watch collection for now. Keep up the good work. Cheers from NYC.
Exactly! I too looking at AquaTerra or Seamaster 300. As my one show piece. I have a boxfull of Casio, Citizen, Timex a couple of "Fashion Watches. Etc. It's not a hobby if you are buying to make a profit!?
Your tastes are very similar to mine. I had the first gen Aqua Terra and the 1861 Speedy too... however after plenty of time and wearing those, as well as getting to grips with the OP 36mm at an AD, I've converted to OP. They are just perfect watches...I don't own any watches apart from my G shock, having now sold the Omegas and I'm on the loooooooong waiting list for Green/ Black OP. I think it will be worth it even if they only call me in 3 years.. hopefully the Speedy which I bought at the AD a few years ago helps me in the queue.... enjoy the Aqua Terra. They are gorgeous. But I think the OP is worth the wait (for me anyway)
I got a Seamaster 300m blue wave dial and a speedy moon watch. That’s my luxury watch collection, the rest are seiko, timex and casio.
The Aqua Terra is twice the watch. Co-Axial escapement!
@Tony Risi they are great watches for sure. But I definitely don't like exhibition case backs. I prefer the simplicity and timelessness of the Rolex OP. I tried both on, and the OP was smaller, thinner and more elegant
Just personal taste
Edit: I'm not that bothered about co axial , or movements in general. A watch is so much more than just the movement. Rolex movements are very good too...omega may be better, but I prefer how the OP feels and sits on my wrist. To me that's much more important than the movement. Comfort and looks are more essential
Couldn’t agree more James. I love all my watches from my Omegas to my Casios, but consider them worthless, I took a long time choosing each one and would never sell them, hence why they are worthless, or priceless.
I agree I have a casio and a modded Vostok Amphibia
You nailed it. I've reduced my collection down to a G-Shock and a Speedmaster Pro.
Excellent video. I remember when you first started UA-cam, and you put out a video where you said people made "mistakes" when you start with Tags etc and "it was best to not waste your money and save up for a rolex, ( I even remember the tone of your voice during that vid) so that you 'keep' having your money from not losing on depreciation, and now fast forward all these years after, and you say that you respect the purists who actually like the hobby and buy these tier watches for the love and for what they can afford. We all can't justify Rolex money, even if we saved for years and years. Many people were being brainwashed by that "Jewelers on time Ad" on AC3's channel about not losing on depreciation, rather than actually loving the hobby across all price spectrums. I also do remember many of the superchats (like 100 pounds one time and more) you gave AC3. My point is, I'm impressed with what you've said in this particular video.
I hope you’re right man. This hobby needs a correction. Get rid of the speculators.
Absolutely spot on!!!
I've been collecting for 22 years. I remember when there was zero prejudice expressed by most enthusiasts when we discussed and compared Rolex to a Doxa, an Omega to zenith and jlc to vulcain for example. I sense we are at saturation point. So many "newbies" only aware of or having experience of very few brands and that's without delving into tje beauties that exist on the vintage side. I hope this all changes and that new enthusiasts maintain an open mind going forward.
Love the content
There are definite exceptions to this as well I think. I myself enjoy "hype" watches but I also have some that people would call shitters as well. I have citizen and casio as well as Rolex and now Lange. I just buy what I personally like and try not to be influenced too much by the hype. Glad you are back James. Great vid
As a watch collector /purist I agree 100 percent with your thoughts. This is the reason most of my new pieces have been Tudor and Breitling. Omega is next! I'm so glad you're back!!
Couldn’t agree more. I recall the days walking into a gray market dealer and finding the Batman for a couple grand under retail, good old days. Purchasing because you loved it and not necessarily as a potential ‘investment’. Glad to see you producing more content James.
I find what you said here to be the truth. It's exactly what I've been ticked off about for the last 2 years. First the hype and then the investment class collectors who seem to get first shot on anything at the AD's. If we are watch enthusiast's we should be staying away from Rolex. Let the guys who know nothing about horology and collecting, the bankers, lawyers, and Wall Street scum have them. I'm no longer looking seriously at Rolex anymore because it's gone too far.
I agree Nomos, Cartier, Stowa, Grand Seiko, Omega, FP Journe, JLC, Sinn, Fortis etc are better luxury watches than Rolex.
I am completely agreeing with you! And want to see more content about the watches you mentioned. I have a Speedy, Tudor BB but also a nice Tissot, Longine, CW in my collection. Some people on youtube call them shitters just because they don’t present the hipe. To me they are destroying the love for watches with there comments. There are beautiful watches offered by these brand, these people just don’t get it, because there are in the hobby for all the wrong reasons.
Every so often the UA-cam algorithms lead us to a good suggestion and that was the case for me this evening finding your channel. I've always owned one watch, usually an inexpensive Timex or Casio, but over the last few years have begun a low/mid level budget collection and find I really enjoy watches. I look forward to watching your content and learning more..
I have a Casio AE-1000 and Lume mod Vostok Amphibia 710379.
Appreciate your honesty regarding the Rolex hype. You and Federico are the only people that has called out the BS with Rolex. Great content. 👍
I'm in this hobby because I buy what appeals to me, whether it be a Doxa 300, Lorus Ana-digi, or a Seiko. I'm certainly not in the position (or mindset) to spent thousands upon thousands of dollars on a wristwatch, and I certainly wouldn't do it for speculation purposes if I did. I buy stocks, which is bad enough. 😆
James I couldn't agree with you more, this is a topic that has been on my mind for sometime, to a point that I want out of all this, there is an omega I want then I'll call it a day.I don't know any other channel that has said all the comments that you have, and that speaks volumes.
Absolutely correct. I miss the old days of the hobby.
YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY spot on!!! I’ve been in this for 30+ years - “NEW”Rolex GMTs, Submariners, Explorers were NOT “collector” pieces, they were terrific professional watches that we knew we could wear with pride for a lifetime and then pass along to our kids… Today, all I hear is “what a great investment” and “you can’t go wrong with this purchase”. I know I sound like an old fuddy duddy….
Right on point. I remember way back 2013 when I walked in to the authorized Rolex AD and was offered a Sub date. Really want it but with no extra disposable income I had second thoughts. Finally got a Rolex SD 50th 5 years later at retail. Will never buy Rolex at the gray market. Would rather choose other brands at retail/discount.
I really appreciate your content, James. You are saying things that really need to be said. I don't much care for most watch content on UA-cam any more, because the hobbyist element is simply missing from most of them. The investment/trading/flipping crowd need to stop pretending to be hobbyists and leave those of us who simply enjoy our watches in peace.
Tim Mosso said, why would you pay £20,000 for a Submariner when you for that money you could buy a Vacheron? He has a good point. I guess 'investors' who don't actually care about the watch they are buying see it that way...
Every collector, enthusiast and UA-camr needs to see this! I'm one of your guys and will be reaching out in the near future! Welcome back!
Please keep your channel going, you bring the watch hobby back to the basics!
Your spot on . I’m sick to death of the same odious conversations on Rolex prices and growth in the market . In many ways the explosion of prices has forced owners to either sell or view Rolex as a commodity. I bought Rolex sports to wear and enjoy however I now have to keep them in a vault due to market value prices I don’t want them at home , this is a 50 mile round trip and inconvenient so they are virtually never worn . By default they have become commodities something I never wanted it has been forced upon me . The upside is i discovered omega which unquestionably are now my number one brand to wear and enjoy .
I've been watching watch review channels for years. Can't believe I missed this one! Great content. Glad I found your channel. Carry on the great work!
Liked the piece so subscribed. I love a load of microbrands and a load of Swiss/German too. I am on the list for Pepsi GMT (at a jewellers I have bought a few Tudors from) because I love the watch - six months ago, I got a call to ask "Which bracelet do you want?" - Rolex, not the AD, had told them to 'split their list' that way.
I am now thinking bollocks to it, I don't want to be a part of this crap! Firstly, I agree with you about list publication (not data - just the number, like they do with the MCC)
But, here's a thing. If all the dealers on West 38th Street in Manhattan all agreed to drop their used prices of Rolex by 25%, they'd shift the lot and the market would change. Kid you not, there is at least 20,000 steel Rolexes on that street!
Anyway, Rolex (who get their cases made in China BTW!!!) are moving towards precious metals and Tudor is occupying the 'tool watch excellence' space Rolex grew their brand on.
Anyway James, cheers - OOI interest, what do you think of Christopher Ward?
I thought Rolex cases were made in Switzerland
@@oscarosullivan4513 That's what they want eveeyone to think
Glad you are back. I have been collecting over 40 years. Yes I have Rolex's, but as my collection evolved I learned the true meaning of high horology. I moved on to Breguet, ALS, V.C.,J.L.C., H Mosier and Cie and yes even F.P Journe. But that does not stop me enjoying Omega( Have all 3 Seamasters) and Seiko.
Certain watches have now become like stock; hyped and traded. What collectors need to learn is simply don't play the game. Are you really trying to tell me that the Rolex OP 41 Tiffiney dial has the same value as a Breguet 7337 Classic? Are you kidding me. This is what the herd has been programed to believe. When the smoke clears it will not be pretty. LOL
I have now gone a different direction. Instead of the herd mentality, I ordered a bespoke watch that is built just for me. A D. Dornbluth and Sohne. I picked the hands, dial, material, etc. I was told by other collectors that this watch would never go up in value. So what. To me this watch will be priceless.( The wait is 14 months. A lot less than a steel Rolex.)
God Bless you and your family.
I couldn’t agree more. I have 1 Patek and 3 Rolex timepieces. I also have about 4 Invictas. I purchase what I love and calls to me. I believe investors are taking the fun out of the hobby.
I can’t agree with you more James. I bought my first Rolex in 2004 (a white dial Explorer 2) that had been with the AD for 2 years and they gave me a discount and a “thank God he bought it” as I walked out of the door. But the market has changed for the worse. Normal buyers trying to break into certain brands have no chance unless they have loads of disposable income. Real collectors have been priced out. But it is not just Rolex, it is AP and Patek etc. That said, there are some great brands out there that we can all enjoy, we just need to look wider
Absolutely spot on, James. What a refreshing 20min that was! It’s clear who you’re talking about and I’m in complete agreement, not least because these superchat hungry types often know very little about watches. They’re in Rolex for the money as they are UA-cam. For background, I own 2 Explorers as I agree they’re the best in the Rolex catalogue; 124270 and 214270 Mk2, and a new OP36 Green, all at retail from AD having bought just a Tudor BB58 blue and BB36 beforehand. My love is Sinn and Breguet. I’ve been harassing Sinn for a blue dial U50-t for a very long time now! I’m from Lancaster… sounds like you’re just down the road? Subscribed with no hesitation. I’ve seen you on the livestreams but didn’t realise you had a channel! Binge watch time😉👍
I'm very new to the hobby. I consider myself a purist, most of my watches are fairly inexpensive watches. I have some heirloom pieces that I could never part with due to sentimental reasons. Most of my watches are 300 to 500 range. Some vintage pieces that I adore but they are relatively cheap. I love them just the same as some people love their Rollies. Maybe one day I'll own a Roller, Omega, Sinn, if not I'm still happy for what I have. Most people don't have my tastes in watches.
Most You Tubers, or self-acclaimed watch celebrities, talk about one thing and one thing only - INVESTMENT WATCHES... and the content becomes more and more repetitive. Hence I do appreciate content like yours, or for what matters, some proper watch reviews, e.g. from Bark & Jack or The Watch Guys. This is enjoyable content for real hobby collector. Thank you James.
James you're spot on. However as somebody who's only been into the hobby for 3 years, I've never owned a Rolex and after trying several, I'm still very drawn to the classic 36mm size Oyster Perpetual... I have owned the 1861 Speedy and Aqua Terra (first gen Black), a seiko turtle and Hamilton Khaki field 38mm... I've sold everything, lost some money but it was worth it for the experience.... I'm looking for one versatile watch to wear daily in every scenario and to me, a collection of G shock square for all the really outdoorsy stuff and one OP for everything else will be fantastic. Really hate the Rolex game and all those flippers and investors. I will keep my OP. It will never see the inside of a safe and it really is annoying how hard I'll have to try to get one... but that's totally my choice based on loving the watch, not the hype ... end of the day its first World problems. We don't really need a watch the g shock does everything and more ... great vid matey
I have a Casio AE-1000 and lume mod Vostok Amphibia 710379. Love your collecting ethos
I really got into watches about 6-7 years ago and I have definitely noticed a drastic change. I too remember Explorer IIs in windows, I remember a second hand Submariner available in a window for £7,000. I'm thankful that I've never really felt drawn to Rolex. So I stick with my TAG Heuer collection, mostly 90s/00s.
The likes of Austin Daniels are sound. Buying Rolex for the love of the watches
My AD offered me in 2016 to buy both the ceramic and pre-ceramic at retail and I turned my back as I always saw it small on my rest size then the readability and the locked chronograph buttons , do I regret it ? From a market price now and the ability to make a profit sure yes , did I grow to like it surprisingly yes too , so looks like the hype got me .
I agree, most “Preferred” customers are flippers with contacts within grey market, so many 2021/ 22 unworn pieces for sale on these new-ish grey market dealers who are possibly the preferred customers in several AD’s
I don't remember the Batman being idle at the AD's... the SS craze began before the release of the Batman... I remember the discount days as well, bought my first Rolex in 1988, and again in 1994... I think with the wealth in Asia now and world wide demand, we're not going to see these watches sitting at the AD for some time... if ever.
I think that you have given an accurate assessment of the watch collection hobby, or hype, to some people. Like yourself, I love Hamilton, Certina, my beautiful grail....the SMP and some Seikos, including my prized, original one owner, (me) Cpt. Willard. I even enjoy some lovely quartz pieces such as Tissot and Hamiltons. The history is also an important factor in my choices. Thank you for a wonderful, truthful and entertaining assessment of our addiction. 👍😀
Thanks for your objective PoV! You ‘tubed my thoughts fairly. Horological love…my first watch I thought was momentous and the gradual movement in appreciation. Thanks man!
This goes on with other hobbies as well, Gibson Les Pauls recently and in the 90's it was Harley-Davidson. Hopefully it comes back to reality. It's nothing new, it's just the watch hobby's turn.
How well put!! I listened carefully and I agree. The hypothetical point to just put aside Rolex and all that comes with it these days-and make the hobby a happier place for us watch enthusiasts- SO true!
You are spot on in this video. Agree 💯. Though I have a few Rolex, I have others including Breitling, IWC, Hamilton, Bangalore Watch Company, etc. In fact, one of my favorites is my Ulysse Nardin dual time limited edition watch. Love your talks. Glad you are back. Cheers from Dallas!
You are spot on, and I think more and more people are getting fed up with the whole silly AD games. Like you, I have had several steel Rolex models over the years and now I only have the one - the 16570 Explorer II polar dial which is in amongst a collection ranging from Christopher Ward to Tudor to Breitling. I've definitely become jaded by the Rolex/UA-cam thing. Keep up the great content. Regards John
Bought watches that I like that I can afford. The fact they are also gaining value is great but not the motivator. I don’t see them as investments, it’s just a bonus that they aren’t depreciating (yet!)
speaking about subs this was one sub that I didn't have to think twice about. Looking forward to future videos.
Love this video. So very true. I have had Omega’s for many years and had a 34mm vintage manual wind Tudor since university. Also owned many a Seiko etc and have G-Shock square.
One more thing, about how I view the hobby:
You CAN buy a cheap watch, and come home with a real POS. But you can buy an expensive watch, and also come home with a dog.
On the other hand, you can buy an expensive watch that is worth what you paid, AND you can find some real gems down in the inexpensive segment. And my friends...
...THAT is the "sport" of this hobby. I have expensive watches and cheap watches, but ALL of my watches are nice. You have to do the homework. You have to do the reading. You have to look deep into what is being offered, and not let the price set your perception of value. DOING all of that is what makes this fun!!
Just today I looked at the winder that houses my two Rolex, while watching this video. Then I went in the other room and opted for my $150 Steel Dive Subby. I love this watch! All day when I wear it, it reminds me of a day that I WON in the hobby, by finding something OUTstanding that was being offered for next to nothing.
Like I say: This is FUN! Enjoy the hunt! If you are doing it to impress people, that won't be fun for you. In that case, find another hobby.
30 years ago, I walked into an AD in Zurich and walked out with a Sub. It was a shock when I tried to upgrade to the current Sub at an AD recently. Upgraded to a Superocean instead and am very satisfied.
Do you still have your original sub
@@oscarosullivan4513 Still keeping it for sentimental reasons. Perfectly fine watch even today, actually.
@@tarjazz1 Glad to hear. Personally pre ceramic subs look nicer
Thanks James. you always make and talk sense I got so fcuked off with ac3 not watch him for over a year is he still shouting like a mad man as always xx from London
Oh yeah buying a Rolex is pure torture now and the opposite of fun!! Who needs that BS. I concentrate on fun watches like seiko, micro brands, Sinn, Oris, etc watches that don’t cost a car and then I mix them up with straps. That to me is fun and what the hobby is about, not stressing over some watch that costs 4 times retail with a two year wait list! 😂🤣🤣HA HA HA NO THANKS!!
Hey James, You just mentioned every average and normal timepiece enthusiast and collectors thoughts and beliefs. We all couldn’t care less about the “Luxury Archiebalds” of the world buying their Rolex’s and Patel Philippe’s.
I guess ur right the rolex hype is going all bad… whats u recommendation between the blackbay 41 burgundy or blue seamater300 41 lollypop sec hand?!! Would love to know ur opinion
Spot on 👌
Finally someone saying what I have been thinking for a while, there seems to be an elitist group on UA-cam just going around on each other’s channels and basically blowing smoke up each other’s holes whilst asking for people to send in donations.
If only the OP41 turquoise was mass produced ... my authorized dealer hasn't ever seen one.
It's freaky how each point you've made is exactly what I've been thinking for some time now. The only difference is you have been in the hobby a lot longer than I, I never experienced Rolex watches being sold in the window there and then. I think another factor is the world of Instagram, the so called flexing.
Don’t feel sorry for those recently finding the watch hobby. There are great watches readily available from a much wider range of manufacturers than any other time in recent history. One effect of the exposure/hype/price increase (on a relative handful of pieces) is an increase in competition. Ignore the hype pieces, dive in, and enjoy the hobby 👍
Totally agree about the super chat thing. I watch some really good streams, where the talk gets genuinely interesting, and then has to stop for a 1.99 question about what the panel think of something off topic! So frustrating.
I watch Marc from Long Island Watch and his Watch chats
You nailed it, and that's why I subscribe to your channel.
I have a small collection, of Rolex, Omega, IWC, Hamilton, Casio...and I love this hobby to the core.
I'm sick to death of the hype.
I hope to see interesting talks like this one.
Thanks
When both the guys who are selling and the guys who are buying high-end watches have to look over their shoulders literally 24-7 for fear of violent criminals....maybe it's time to move on from this hobby?🙁 I'm really starting to ask myself this... I mean, why make yourself a great big target? Paul was saying recently about Rolex (allegedly) being better to buy than property; well I guess low rent thugs can't turn up at 3am and steal a house from you, can they? So there's that...
FINALLY!! i was beginning to think that I was the only one that thought this, spot on.keep up the good content
For me it is just staring to die, i was watching the last episode of CRM jewelry, and on the same day they was asking for a submariner date $19500 , and was offering to a client $10000 for the same model , $9k profit wich is insane
It's all fun to me, including watching how other people view the world.
I am retired. The Department of Veteran's Affairs saw fit to give me FULL retirement at age 50. That's when I picked up the hobby, 18 months ago when I was 50 and freshly retired.
Sure, I own a couple of Rolex. I used my credit cards and paid for them over time. But the purpose is to wear them and enjoy them. I also own a couple of Pagani design cheapos because they are masterfully spec'd out and really nice watches that one can add to his collection for pocket change. I also own very cheap Vostoks...because I appreciate the engineering that goes into them.
Price is not what attracts me. Of them all, my HONEST favorites are my 600-800 dollar Hamiltons. I won't write a long paragraph about the "why's," it just is.
Man, I am a retired Veteran. Here at age 52, I have already impressed everyone I saw a need to impress in this life. Everyone else can see me on a day when I am wearing a $100 watch I like, and think what they want. If they happen to see me on a day when I am wearing a Rollie...it isn't going to make any difference. I won't care what anyone else thinks either way, so let them think whatever they want.
My point: Enjoy the hobby for YOU! If you are doing it for anyone else, it will not be fun for you.
***PS: I bought both of my Rolex on the Grey market. Absolutely NO ONE is going to treat me like they are doing me a favor, when I am trying to spend 10 grand or more. Hell, I am not going to be spoken to that way when I am spending $10.00. Rolex AD's can kiss my Navy Blue balls. There is a way around them, and I use it!
Hi Jim. Found this video and decided to subscribe. You talk complete sense. I can afford to go grey and get my favourite Rolex ( like you Explorer 1). But won't. I would rather buy, as I did my last watch in Nov 2021. An Omega Seamaster AT. White dial 41mm on the rubber strap with the Orange accents. It's frankly stunning. The 8900 movement has to be about the best out there IMO.
I wear it daily, and its dressey and sporty all in one. In 2.5 months it's running +2 seconds.... Overall!!!
I am considering. Cartier Santos mid next. I love the style. But I know the movement although in house isn't going to do what the 8900 does for me. But it's a class watch IMO with great history etc.
Anyhow. I like your style. Seem in it for the right reasons, and unlike for example Paul Thorpe. Don't just see every watch with a doller value attached.
Good on you mate, and be interested how you see the Santos?
Most important is to enjoy the watch journey
Superb video, buddy. I suggest that all of us who consider ourselves enthusiasts need to do our part, and flat out refuse to give any financial advice to these investors, because all we’re doing is giving free advice to people who don’t care about the hobby, nor care if they price all of us out of it.
Bang on the money mate, sad that they’ve become stocks n shares to high rollers.
I’d like to hear your thoughts on the blancpain fifty fathom collection. It would be great if you did a video on them. 👍
You really nailed it with this comment. It’s sad how everything evolved. But seriously, the watch market is just a reflection of the entire market. Prices are ridiculous for many goods. People are having the fear of missing out and it’s fed by the volatility of other markets. Too much money on the accounts of few... that’s why a dream watch (for example a simple 5513) costs 20k euros instead of a healthy 4 or 5k. ...but I guess that’s how the economy works. It sometimes blows things out of proportion. Buy an old IWC and keep it forever:).
Totally agree with your train of thought, i would definitely come in the lower tier of collector's seikos, orient, etc when i was younger i aspired to one day owning a rolex now i can honesly say given unlimited funds if i was looking for a nice sports watch it would be omega all day long, ive stopped buying lower end watches now in the hope of getting a ( for me) grail watch in the 1k to 1.5k range. Watches like every other consumer product are subject to the law of diminishing returns , and i couldnt see me going above this amount.
Absolutely agree, especially with regards the live stream BS it started off interesting and has spiraled into a farce ...a fair few of them with little watch knowledge begging for 5 quid while wearing a 30k Rolex!
The hobby is NOT dying, and there is NO reason for it to die regardless what kind of approach some people decide to take. I have collected watches for 30 years, in the beginning it was mainly just an interest in watches and not so much the financial aspect, but of course it was always a desire to buy something that would keep value instead of buying something that would go down in value and in the end be worthless. Now the money aspect is even more at focus, but the passion has not died down one bit, it`s just that the financial aspect has grown. So no, passion has not died. I have always had more interest in vintage watches, this has not changed either. I got some very valuable watches, but the cheaper ones still gets my attention just as much. This week I bought a vintage Grand Seiko from Japan, price around £440, plus import duties, so not horrendous expensive, but the excitement I get when I open the parcel is just as high as if the watch was £5000 or £20.000, honestly. And who cares that someone is "only in it for the money"? Let them do what they want, and you can do what you want, everyone wins.
Nice video. I have a collection of 1960s black-dial sports pieces. Behind them it is not watches, but reaching for my childhood years and being able to feel it on my wrist, like a connection with the past, with very precious memories. The more patina and scratches, the better. That would be the 321s, the 5513s, the Seamaster300 or the Heuer Autavias. Bakelite, tritium, hesalyte. Watches made of aging materials - some call them "organic". Modern Rolex does not give that emotional connection that I seek, it is like a dead object. Other modern pieces also, even if technically they're far better engineered, but there's no magic in them, no life. None. Not in a modern Daytona, not in a RM, not in Nautilus. Dead metal. It is like comparing the city of Dubai - no history, no soul - and the awe you feel when you walk in the city of Venice.
I totally agree with your points. I went into AD and they had no interest in putting me on the “list”. The AD did try to offer me a refurbished submariner for $25,000. These AD’s have no interests with the list given they are selling these into the grey market. Consumer loses either way. This brand has lost my loyalty. Bad branding in my opinion
Excellent Video. Totally agree with you Showcase.
The enthusiast being squeezed out by the investor is exactly what happened to classic cars in the 1980s onwards.
Good analogy
I couldn’t agree more, I’ve not get excited about Rolex for nearly two years, how can you if you can’t get one at retail. I remember the days you say, buying my first Submariner in 2012 where every model was available from the AD apart from a steel Daytona. Even these were only selling used for a couple £100 more than list.
I really wish more UA-camrs were talking about this topic. I've become so jaded with watches. I own two watches now: a G-Shock and a Speedy Pro. What more do I need?
I really wish that Rolex was not so hyped up. That way it would be easier for me to add another one to my collection. I picked up a Submariner a few months ago. I also have an Omega SMP300 incoming. I am looking forward to spending time with both of them.
Spot on James. I have the same Omega as you, but with the blue rubber strap. I think it’s a far better watch than the Sub. More comfortable to wear and certainly easier to read whilst diving in the Red Sea.
I do follow TGV, whom I find to be a gentleman, with a wide taste of watches, much like yourself. However, I find Archie to be annoying and the opposite spectrum to TGV.
Paul Thorpe gives some useful information, but I’m suspicious of a few of his trusted dealers and their motives.
A very good appraisal of the Watch situation. Well done.
not seen your vids before but i have now subscribed, nice to hear someone talking common sense!
I don’t believe in “newbies”. When I started 25 years ago I was an expert on what I was interested in. At the time it was the Bond Omega. Then it was the 120m then the DeVille tonneau. Then I was an “expert” on Breitling. So on an so forth. We mistake “entry-level” collector’s for foolish collectors with no taste who like shi#%ers. They are NOT to be spoken to OR admired. They are to be shunned as we would shun a fool. The choice is not between investor class and fools. In fact there is no “choice” to be made. Just carry on collecting quality luxury watches. Your “levels” analysis is vapid. Pointless. Never have so many words been said about so little. Best advice: Avoid fools. Carry on.
I doubt many people start collecting watches by going to a Rolex dealer do they. I mean that’s like buying a Porsche as your first car.
Every watch in my collection I’ve bought to wear and enjoy (hopefully) for many years.
My Sinn 103sa BE gets just as much wear as my Omega Speedmaster 1863, Rolex Submariner 124060 and Seiko SKX Ninja Custom.
My criteria for adding a watch in my collection has to be the looks and how it wears.
Fantastic video. Agreed with the sentiment and I appreciate the deep dive into this topic, which is important to all of us who have collected for 10+ years
Great points especially about the You Tubers a bit too full of themselves. I’d add one category of enthusiast however to your list. I am a collector -of all brands- that is infatuated by the beauty and mechanics of specific watches; but I also buy them to wear and enjoy for awhile then pass them on at a modest profit. I learned this about myself after buying my fifth grail!! Rotating 50% of the collection and using profits to buy a new grail is the only way I could afford to enjoy the hobby.
Excellent commentary on the current state of play in the watch collecting game.
Good info thanks. New to this hobby. You’ve gained a subscriber 👍🏻
I agree with you about not shitting on peoples watch choice's, However when someone shows me their new Armani, DG or BOSS watch, I have zero hesitation in telling them to take it back to the store and buy a Seiko or tissot instead. Buy a watch ffrom people who actually make watches, You wouldn't buy a car because it had an Armani badge? Well some idiots might?
I completely agree with this. I buy watches to wear but the price of many watches are now more than I could ever pay for "just a watch". If I wasn't buying in 2016 when a "Batman" was £7k for example, why on earth would I buy one now for £18k? It shows the current prices are driven by an influx of new money and speculation in my opinion.
There is a huge amount of extra £££ factored in for future appreciation potential which is fair enough based on past trends but surely the appreciation can't continue forever.
Not true at all, anyone that has an interest in watches can buy a watch, my son just bought a 22 year old mechanical Seiko for £35, a great looking watch that keep great time. If you can`t afford a Rolex but you want one you can moan about it, or you can buy something interesting that is in your budget. I just don`t understand moaners that moan about issues like this, they will never be happy. I have collected watches for 30 years, and I was always happy to investigate and to buy any watch, regardless if the price was £50 or £20750, yes I got some really expensive stuff, and some really affordable, they are all great watches. Stop moaning. I think this is all down to the snobbery that a watch HAS to be a Rolex or the equivalent, news flash; it does not. If you have the passion you get it, if not you will not understand, and you will remain in a constant unhappy state always want what you can`t afford. Get a life.
@@truxton1000 fair points. I don't care for Seikos, Casios etc. so it doesn't apply to me but it must be great for those satisfied to hunt in that level of the market. It's not so much about outright budget for me, more value for money compared with a few years ago.
Dude you hit the nail right on the head.
I'm a 61 year old who adapted and went the smart watch route, came back to real watches cause they will never become obsolete don't run out of juice at the end of the day and I can have 3 sub 100 dollar pieces that will last longer than my galaxy watch.
A very honest view of what is going on. all the best.
Rolex does own are part of the responsibility. They surely know what is going on. However, I believe social media (UA-cam, Instagram, to a lesser degree Twitter) have created a hype machine that is so powerful that it is unlikely that the Average Joe will be able to buy a steel Rolex at MSRP within his lifetime. This is a bold statement, but I do not see things returning to pre-2010 levels. It would take something extraordinary for the watch-collecting community to lose enough interest in the brand for it to return to "normal". I can't think of any situation where that would happen. As always, another good video.
Not dying, just evolving.
James, couldn't agree more. The last 2 years were pretty special. This situation has to cool down when things get back to normal again. If Rolex will become more available again depends a lot on Rolex themselves and how they deal with the AD issue. Good to have you back, keep up the good work!😎👍
Its modern day tulip mania
Well said.
I already stop collection rolex and pp which are the only two brand I collect
If it comes, I will buy it at msrp
Otherwise I’m ok with not buying any watch
You're right, James! But it's what happens naturally in capitalism. Tell me which brand isn't going the Rolex route if they have the chance. 😉 I'm trying to get a nice pair of Nike Air Pandas at the moment and I could get them right away. But for triple retail! 😅😜 So everybody's doing it, if they have the market position. You can call it unfair and many people aka customers will approve. But it isn't the job of a company to distribute fairly like in a communist economy but to generate revenue. - Just my humble opinion 😉
I wonder if the Luxury Bizarre Tay Ban lawsuit will rock the grey market?
These grey dealers hold the market prices in their hands…
I found a datejust TT for $49 at a local pawnshop, I sold for $2k, Rolex doesn't establish market value on their watches,if you can't get one then it is what it is. I've been collection for over 30 years and I have no complaints against Rolex because the gray market is going crazy with pricing. Rolex was there 30 years ago and it will continue to be there regardless of popularity or aftermarket pricing.
Great insight. You are totally on point.
I started the hobby fairly recently. I am definitely in it for the love of the watches. I refuse to pay stupid money for a Rolex on the gray market. If things normalize and I manage to find one at an AD, sure I’ll get it if I’m able. But until then I am quite content with what I have. And there are so many great watches by other brands besides Rolex. Like that Seamaster 300M you are wearing. I have the same one and it is fantastic.
Many hobbies have gotten ruined for me by those that choose to try to profit off of something.
And regarding UA-camrs, there are some that I like and have good information. But sometimes you have to take their information with a grain of salt.
Keep up the good work! Cheers!