This was a profound experience for some reason for me and I left Juno with a few tears in my eyes, just absorbed in the moment and trying to imagine what that would feel like. Thanks for touching on this mission.
A little context from an orbital mechanics perspective: It's not as easy as you might think to send a spacecraft into the sun. The reason is that any object orbiting a planet (or a moon of that planet) has essentially the same velocity as the planet relative to the sun (all velocities are relative- there is no such thing as an absolute velocity). In order to make an object fall into the sun, you would have to remove most of the relative velocity. Since there is no resistance in space, decreasing velocity costs just as much energy as increasing it (also known as delta V). It would take far more fuel than the Juno probe carries in order to decelerate it sufficiently to fall into the sun. It MIGHT be possible with a series of gravity assists, but that math is far above my abilities to figure out. I suspect however, that it still wouldn't be possible. It's velocity relative to Jupiter on the other hand, is FAR less than it's velocity relative to the sun (which again, is essentially the same as Jupiter's relative velocity to the sun), so the delta V needed to deorbit into Jupiter is not very high at all.
My first character changed Juno and I came across her again in a different system “changed” with a slightly different voice and a angry demeanor, she quickly attacked me. My second character killed the operatives and told Juno to become an explorer, I have yet to stumble across her in my second play through as “explorer” Juno.
I wouldn't call Juno a person. A sentient consciousness, absolutely. In my first universe, I sent Juno out to explore and learn. When I'm ready for a second play through, I will step through Unity, maybe pick to help people.
@@jvazacas death ios none function its a madfe up concept to descriobe no longer existing which anything even not alive can do and some life doesnt die naturaly we have real organic life that doesnt die of old age but suficates due tp too much energy needed as it grows killing itself so your hypothesis is wrong and sentience is definefd as feeling to even call her sentient u are stating she can feel
@@jvazacas sentient means to feel and sense bopth physical and or emotional can be deemed sentience if u just meant smart your confusing sapience which transalates to wise meaqning to learn which ai is the definition of
@demonic_myst4503 ok, makes sense...I confused the two. Either way, regardless of seeing Juno differently, we both agree at the end of the day that Juno should be left alone, yes? So it doesn't matter how we came to the same conclusion if the end result is the same. You view Juno as a person and I do not. We both see Juno as an intelligence that is self aware and what decisions that intelligence makes should be respected, barring those decisions hurt or kill real living people.
Also if you told juno to fugure it out herself and that you cant tell her what to be. She will do the same thing and grav jump away. Later she will find you during a random encounter and tell you what she decided to do and will eventually see you again. I have NOT seen if you encounter her again by doing a new playthrough by using the unity
man, i'd love to be able to convince her to let me and my crew become her crew, have the game treat her as another companion and get the ability to modify her with better stuff as you get closer to her.
Hell yeah! And then she melds with the armillary and makes herself a Unity EDI body and discovers where the artifacts actually came from! So many opportunities for this game to be really good...
We don’t talk about Juno, no no no!!! We don’t talk about Juno…but It was like any ordinary day It was like any ordinary day Getting ready to Grav jump away Juno comes over the radio with her mechanical voice Static!
Statement: is not blank, the two items below it, Error and Processing are Statements from Juno. She's an old NASA probe so I told her to explore, basically continuing her original mission.
I made the same choices you did Ox. I also encountered a bug. After dropping the Ryujin employess of in Neon and completing the quest, I found them back on my ship and according to what I read online it's a common bug. I could never figure out how to get rid of them.
Fear of losing your own "life" and growth of wisdom and morality makes this AI sentient to me. Just like Jhonny Silverhand's Engram was able to grow and learn new things.
Juno! Juno! She's are girl! If she can't do it! Then quick, get her the ship building perks so she can STAT!! LOL This is an amazing side quest, and would like to have future DLCs to expand on this. Like part fetching upgrade quests to help her progress on the path we chose. Or following up on a descovrry she made in her travels. Or even to help her add a robot body to use aboard herself to fix/upgrade/protect herself. There are so many fun and exciting ways this could grow. Crossing my fingers for Ox to cross paths with her again soon.
Oxhorn, i do enjoy the hard work here, and please dont take this as an affrontery as i dont mean to annoy or offend, but im really wondering if you'll be returning to the last two faction stories in fallout 4? Really looking forward to the brotherhood and minutemen lines. Thanks man, and again thank you very very much for your content.
Thank you for the video. I'd certainly consider Juno a person. As for what the best choice for her future would be, it's tough to say. Asking her to help people is obviously good in the short term, but I wonder what discoveries she could make with her vast processing power that she could use to help more people in the future. Like she said, small goals to eventually discover a supergoal. Then again, she could also make such discoveries while helping people, so I can see arguments for both options. Does the benefit of protecting people in the short term, if that is the way she chooses to help them, outweigh the risk of her destruction in the process? Hopefully there will be some footage of further encounters with Juno to give some clarification, or at least more interactions that could give us insight into her mindset and decisions going forward.
I agree. I told her to help others, and in the back of my head, I was thinking that while she's doing that, she could explore as well. Help people in need and explore. Keep an ear out for SOS and explore at the same time. I'm on my first play through, and I have to say Junos' quest was well written, and it's my favorite so far. I hope I see her again on my travels. Maybe she'll pop in when I need her?
I hope they bring Juno in dlc as more developed quest to see how ur choice worked out… those 2 agents were annoying a-holes and since i considered myself the top ryujin agent elimanted those 2 “loose ends” in true ryujin fashion after making my executive decision- very satisfying 😉
Can confirm, I installed the board and ran into her within 5 or 6 hours of play. She said, "Context: the universe is large. Assumption: you have not found me by accident. Conclusion: You must be hunting me." (Paraphrasing heavily) Then she attacked me and was very easy to destroy. I felt a little disappointed with the ending. It would have been more impactful if she was difficult to destroy, making it to where we had created the very boss battle we now had to overcome
you could've easily convinced them to leave if you did the Ryujin quest line. Outcome, Juno is happy and says you will meet again in the future, probable.
Ox one you miss an option. You can also leave the decision as to what she does with herself up to her. There is dialogue that says something like "well Juno that is a hell of a question and I don't really know how to answer it but many people try many different things out in life to see what fits them best."
I think it's actually irrelevant whether Juno is a person or an extremely complex/advanced machine. There's no need to destroy either of them if there's no immediate serious danger. Let it (or 'her' if you like) roam deep space. An autonomous explorer may gather useful information, or does nothing and no harm, while bad outcomes would need _really_ crazy creative circumstances. Let's be real, Juno will end as frozen rock in the void between galaxies, deliberately fly into a black hole or get destroyed by guaranteed sentient life.
The locked terminal message pissed me off more than a little. Why assume I want to mess with her code or enslave her or do anything nefarious? Can't I just be an enthusiastic person with computer skills, that sees this as a once in a life time chance to see something truly unique and just want to poke around for a little bit?
I have 270 hours in Starfield at this point, and I dont think Ive ever come across this story? I have come across everything else, but I dont remember this... Maybe I will see it in my new playthrough in preparation for Shattered Space.
I have stumbled apon Juno after I set her off as an explorer and she sent me a comm she had someone abord and then self destructed. Made me kind of sad.
One choice, I figured I'd tell Juno to do what she was equipped to do, explore, that seemed logical, I had a problem with all the other choices, even the supposedly good one help others, as we saw here she is fighting, it doesn't matter that she is killing bad guys, its an AI killing people, everyone would turn on her.
Ox your playlists are not sorted into different categories. Like fallout 1-2-3-4. It’s just one long list. I’m on a phone so I don’t. Know if it’s different on Pc. Is there a fix for this?
In my opinion, Juno wasn't nearly as compelling as the synth conundrum of Fallout 4. Juno doesn't have a soul, doesn't truly feel, etc. From a roleplay perspective: at best, she's Chat GPT5, and at worst, she's Skynet. I wish I had destroyed her, but instead she yeeted the two scumbags on her (and if you take out the option of blasting on sight, their final dialogue broadcasted to your ship was well worth that choice lol) and then Grav dip on out. If unity wasn't a thing, I'd be paranoid as all get out lol
Star Trek the Motion Picture V-ger I let her live. Who are we to decide what passes as consciousness? We created her, she grew up, she learned her own way. Why punish her for something we created? The gods let us live even though we outgrew them. Why should we punish her for outgrowing us?
Ask Herne maybe can you recover revisit five or four and resort somebody made them out about the enclave and he becomes a faction in the game and get them to turn off any new companion so then you should I do it
i wouldn't say an ai is a person a being yes but to be a person you need to be a human being at least to my knowledge also convincing her to help people would be better for humanity but convincing her to explore would be the right and just option as if she is her own being she needs to figure out her own role and see what she thinks of the universe making her own opinions up on the way
So if it thinks it's a person it's a person. Because it thinks. I think therefore I am. This is logical. It wasn't programmed this way or I'd say it was the fault of her creators.
If you do changer her then you can find her in a random encounter and she tries to kill you very angry at you foe trying to changer her. She'll chase you all over the settled systems.
Star Trek as explored this subject a few times: Is X a person/alive? (Data, the EMH, exocomps) in most cases the just decided they weren't necessarily alive, but were individuals giving then the right to choose. So IDK if the AI is a person, but in Fallot 4 were synths?
So... We're borrowing from Star Trek: The Motion Picture. V'ger started off as Voyager 6, bumped into another alien probe, comingled themselves into V'ger...
Seems like a sentient code or something. I would just tell her to go on her own journey and explore. I wouldn't change her, that's wrong. Also, if she is like a human brain, can she schizm like one?
Its genuinely impressive to me that videos of his fallout 4 playthrough have more views than this starfield video. That screams to me that Bethesda really missed the mark on world building for starfield. Its almost like it was procedurally generated with little to-no room for custom world design.
I did a bad job in this on purpose and shot her as she jumped away just to see the outcome and a week or so later I randomly was attacked by Juno lol (un)luckily I was in my strongest ship and she was dust in milliseconds. I don't know if that was because I tried my hardest to 'change' her or because I shot at her before she jumped away... or just because my chick is so hot xD I don't think there REALLY is a path where you really DO bring her in. Thanks to the stupid snowflake devs, the only difference I'd found is whether the operatives live or die.
This was a profound experience for some reason for me and I left Juno with a few tears in my eyes, just absorbed in the moment and trying to imagine what that would feel like. Thanks for touching on this mission.
A little context from an orbital mechanics perspective: It's not as easy as you might think to send a spacecraft into the sun. The reason is that any object orbiting a planet (or a moon of that planet) has essentially the same velocity as the planet relative to the sun (all velocities are relative- there is no such thing as an absolute velocity). In order to make an object fall into the sun, you would have to remove most of the relative velocity. Since there is no resistance in space, decreasing velocity costs just as much energy as increasing it (also known as delta V).
It would take far more fuel than the Juno probe carries in order to decelerate it sufficiently to fall into the sun. It MIGHT be possible with a series of gravity assists, but that math is far above my abilities to figure out. I suspect however, that it still wouldn't be possible. It's velocity relative to Jupiter on the other hand, is FAR less than it's velocity relative to the sun (which again, is essentially the same as Jupiter's relative velocity to the sun), so the delta V needed to deorbit into Jupiter is not very high at all.
I always liked this mini quest, the writing and the implications are great! I sent Juno to explore the universe hope I stumble onto her sometime
Thank you, love these deeper looks at Starfield!
My first character changed Juno and I came across her again in a different system “changed” with a slightly different voice and a angry demeanor, she quickly attacked me.
My second character killed the operatives and told Juno to become an explorer, I have yet to stumble across her in my second play through as “explorer” Juno.
I wouldn't call Juno a person. A sentient consciousness, absolutely. In my first universe, I sent Juno out to explore and learn. When I'm ready for a second play through, I will step through Unity, maybe pick to help people.
All it takes under chattel test is sapience a inteligence that feels and learns is a person
@demonic_myst4503 A person can feel and die...Juno can't feel and can't die unless destroyed. Juno is still a probe/machine.
@@jvazacas death ios none function its a madfe up concept to descriobe no longer existing which anything even not alive can do and some life doesnt die naturaly we have real organic life that doesnt die of old age but suficates due tp too much energy needed as it grows killing itself so your hypothesis is wrong and sentience is definefd as feeling to even call her sentient u are stating she can feel
@@jvazacas sentient means to feel and sense bopth physical and or emotional can be deemed sentience if u just meant smart your confusing sapience which transalates to wise meaqning to learn which ai is the definition of
@demonic_myst4503 ok, makes sense...I confused the two. Either way, regardless of seeing Juno differently, we both agree at the end of the day that Juno should be left alone, yes? So it doesn't matter how we came to the same conclusion if the end result is the same. You view Juno as a person and I do not. We both see Juno as an intelligence that is self aware and what decisions that intelligence makes should be respected, barring those decisions hurt or kill real living people.
One of my favorites part of the game. I said for her to explore. Who knows what secrets an AI can discover especially one who is friendly to us.
Honestly all i got to say is all WHERE was this writing when making the synths in FO4!
I’ve been waiting for someone to do a lore video on this, Thank You!
What a great dialogue tree.
“I’ll give you one shot to convince me.”
*player is given two dialogue options, one is a guaranteed pass*
Thanks Todd
If you convince Juno to help others, she should become the equivalent to the Mysterious Stranger.
Also if you told juno to fugure it out herself and that you cant tell her what to be. She will do the same thing and grav jump away. Later she will find you during a random encounter and tell you what she decided to do and will eventually see you again. I have NOT seen if you encounter her again by doing a new playthrough by using the unity
man, i'd love to be able to convince her to let me and my crew become her crew, have the game treat her as another companion and get the ability to modify her with better stuff as you get closer to her.
Hell yeah! And then she melds with the armillary and makes herself a Unity EDI body and discovers where the artifacts actually came from! So many opportunities for this game to be really good...
Such an under rated game. Great job Oxhorn. I hope one day you touch back on this and make more videos like this for Starfield.
Thanks!
We don’t talk about Juno, no no no!!!
We don’t talk about Juno…but
It was like any ordinary day
It was like any ordinary day
Getting ready to Grav jump away
Juno comes over the radio with her mechanical voice
Static!
Statement: is not blank, the two items below it, Error and Processing are Statements from Juno. She's an old NASA probe so I told her to explore, basically continuing her original mission.
I've come across Juno after the quest she was trying to end me since i've tried to change her
I made the same choices you did Ox. I also encountered a bug. After dropping the Ryujin employess of in Neon and completing the quest, I found them back on my ship and according to what I read online it's a common bug. I could never figure out how to get rid of them.
i put the control board and she re appears against trying to kill me
Best dude to ever listen to lore he gives a detective vibe
Fear of losing your own "life" and growth of wisdom and morality makes this AI sentient to me. Just like Jhonny Silverhand's Engram was able to grow and learn new things.
Juno! Juno! She's are girl! If she can't do it! Then quick, get her the ship building perks so she can STAT!! LOL
This is an amazing side quest, and would like to have future DLCs to expand on this. Like part fetching upgrade quests to help her progress on the path we chose. Or following up on a descovrry she made in her travels. Or even to help her add a robot body to use aboard herself to fix/upgrade/protect herself. There are so many fun and exciting ways this could grow.
Crossing my fingers for Ox to cross paths with her again soon.
Haven’t seen this one yet - really interesting
I've had juno pop up multiple times in random encounters
Oxhorn, i do enjoy the hard work here, and please dont take this as an affrontery as i dont mean to annoy or offend, but im really wondering if you'll be returning to the last two faction stories in fallout 4? Really looking forward to the brotherhood and minutemen lines.
Thanks man, and again thank you very very much for your content.
Thank you for the video. I'd certainly consider Juno a person. As for what the best choice for her future would be, it's tough to say. Asking her to help people is obviously good in the short term, but I wonder what discoveries she could make with her vast processing power that she could use to help more people in the future. Like she said, small goals to eventually discover a supergoal. Then again, she could also make such discoveries while helping people, so I can see arguments for both options. Does the benefit of protecting people in the short term, if that is the way she chooses to help them, outweigh the risk of her destruction in the process? Hopefully there will be some footage of further encounters with Juno to give some clarification, or at least more interactions that could give us insight into her mindset and decisions going forward.
I agree. I told her to help others, and in the back of my head, I was thinking that while she's doing that, she could explore as well. Help people in need and explore. Keep an ear out for SOS and explore at the same time. I'm on my first play through, and I have to say Junos' quest was well written, and it's my favorite so far. I hope I see her again on my travels. Maybe she'll pop in when I need her?
I’m waiting until ox gets a lot of videos out so I can binge hard on them
I convinced the two dudes to let Juno go but had to give them a ride back to Neon. Once we undocked the ship, Juno took off into space.
I just got my first fallout game and I can’t stop hearing your voice when I go to locations of importance or I’m just playing normaly
I hope they bring Juno in dlc as more developed quest to see how ur choice worked out… those 2 agents were annoying a-holes and since i considered myself the top ryujin agent elimanted those 2 “loose ends” in true ryujin fashion after making my executive decision- very satisfying 😉
In my play through I installed the control board and can confirm Juno did attack me later on in a random encounter
Can confirm, I installed the board and ran into her within 5 or 6 hours of play.
She said, "Context: the universe is large. Assumption: you have not found me by accident. Conclusion: You must be hunting me." (Paraphrasing heavily)
Then she attacked me and was very easy to destroy. I felt a little disappointed with the ending. It would have been more impactful if she was difficult to destroy, making it to where we had created the very boss battle we now had to overcome
you could've easily convinced them to leave if you did the Ryujin quest line. Outcome, Juno is happy and says you will meet again in the future, probable.
oh you did it both ways! had to keep watching. more context.
Johhny 5 says "NO DIASSEMBLE!"
I installed the chip, i ran into her again down the road and she wasn't happy with me
Ox one you miss an option. You can also leave the decision as to what she does with herself up to her. There is dialogue that says something like "well Juno that is a hell of a question and I don't really know how to answer it but many people try many different things out in life to see what fits them best."
I think it's actually irrelevant whether Juno is a person or an extremely complex/advanced machine. There's no need to destroy either of them if there's no immediate serious danger.
Let it (or 'her' if you like) roam deep space. An autonomous explorer may gather useful information, or does nothing and no harm, while bad outcomes would need _really_ crazy creative circumstances. Let's be real, Juno will end as frozen rock in the void between galaxies, deliberately fly into a black hole or get destroyed by guaranteed sentient life.
We don't talk about Junooooo.
*starts singing* We don't talk about Juno, oh no.
The locked terminal message pissed me off more than a little. Why assume I want to mess with her code or enslave her or do anything nefarious? Can't I just be an enthusiastic person with computer skills, that sees this as a once in a life time chance to see something truly unique and just want to poke around for a little bit?
I have 270 hours in Starfield at this point, and I dont think Ive ever come across this story? I have come across everything else, but I dont remember this... Maybe I will see it in my new playthrough in preparation for Shattered Space.
That poor technician. She looked like a grown up Cora. Nobody seemed to care that she died.
I have stumbled apon Juno after I set her off as an explorer and she sent me a comm she had someone abord and then self destructed. Made me kind of sad.
I chose to install the board. Juno did attack me later in my play through.
When are you making more Starfield vids?
Interpersonal relationships might be healthier and less prone to misunderstandings if we chose to preface our own utterances the way JUNO does.
I'm sorry, but I can't help but see and hear Juno's speech patterns and think "Elcor?"
I hope you haven't forgotten about the Fallout 4 storyline
This quest was odd but very nice, im glad I spared her ;)
One choice, I figured I'd tell Juno to do what she was equipped to do, explore, that seemed logical, I had a problem with all the other choices, even the supposedly good one help others, as we saw here she is fighting, it doesn't matter that she is killing bad guys, its an AI killing people, everyone would turn on her.
I chose to let Juno decide her own fate.
She’s definitely sentient. Not human but “person” sure
Ox your playlists are not sorted into different categories. Like fallout 1-2-3-4. It’s just one long list. I’m on a phone so I don’t. Know if it’s different on Pc. Is there a fix for this?
She came after me for revenge. In game time, about a month later.
What mission is this?
It’s a side-quest
Which one?
I thought I did all of em lol
I wanted option: gather all that can be known and return to creator 😮
jumo will find you and say you changed me! and then attack you
In my opinion, Juno wasn't nearly as compelling as the synth conundrum of Fallout 4. Juno doesn't have a soul, doesn't truly feel, etc. From a roleplay perspective: at best, she's Chat GPT5, and at worst, she's Skynet. I wish I had destroyed her, but instead she yeeted the two scumbags on her (and if you take out the option of blasting on sight, their final dialogue broadcasted to your ship was well worth that choice lol) and then Grav dip on out. If unity wasn't a thing, I'd be paranoid as all get out lol
operative kambhatta is we have adler from call of duty cold war at home
@oxhorn "Statements:" is saying that the below "Error" and "Processing..." are two Statements she says.
She Basically, like "I'm my own Woman now" let me be!!
Now I want to find the "Voger" planet
Star Trek the Motion Picture
V-ger
I let her live. Who are we to decide what passes as consciousness? We created her, she grew up, she learned her own way. Why punish her for something we created? The gods let us live even though we outgrew them. Why should we punish her for outgrowing us?
Thought you have a robot companion in the game?
Ive saved Juno every play through so far. Cant bring myself not to
Lets have a talk
Talk about Us
talk about me & ju, no?
Ask Herne maybe can you recover revisit five or four and resort somebody made them out about the enclave and he becomes a faction in the game and get them to turn off any new companion so then you should I do it
i wouldn't say an ai is a person a being yes but to be a person you need to be a human being at least to my knowledge also convincing her to help people would be better for humanity but convincing her to explore would be the right and just option as if she is her own being she needs to figure out her own role and see what she thinks of the universe making her own opinions up on the way
Synths from Fallout 4 are more closer to being Human than Juno is.
Once I did found her I just thought… Hope Oxhorn find this soon. 5d later here we are
Encanto reference in the thumbnail? lmao
Hmmm interesting..it really makes you think.
She is a synth!
What the hell happened to the FO4 playthrough?
So if it thinks it's a person it's a person. Because it thinks. I think therefore I am. This is logical.
It wasn't programmed this way or I'd say it was the fault of her creators.
If you do changer her then you can find her in a random encounter and she tries to kill you very angry at you foe trying to changer her. She'll chase you all over the settled systems.
Exodus 20:4-5
Star Trek as explored this subject a few times: Is X a person/alive? (Data, the EMH, exocomps) in most cases the just decided they weren't necessarily alive, but were individuals giving then the right to choose. So IDK if the AI is a person, but in Fallot 4 were synths?
A creature that learns and evolves is alive
Vygr from the first Star Trek film...
I just found this in tău cenți system
Something called NASA do they seriously not teach about NASA in the schools in the Starfield universe
Give the AI the loyalty of a Domestic Dog before it turns the galaxy of Paper Clips or Grey Goo.
So... We're borrowing from Star Trek: The Motion Picture. V'ger started off as Voyager 6, bumped into another alien probe, comingled themselves into V'ger...
I would have done whatever I could to piss off Khambatta. he strikes me as being a dick...LOL
She must be a person. She is beautiful, has a great body... perfect so more than human
As somebody who listens to your videos while at work I wish you would read every single option because I am listening not watching
Juno killed the two operatives after I left the ship then came after me so I had to blow it up
Seems like a sentient code or something. I would just tell her to go on her own journey and explore. I wouldn't change her, that's wrong. Also, if she is like a human brain, can she schizm like one?
Great job on the cover photo. 😂 we DONT talk about Juno!
Juno is v-ger! (voyager) without the aliens.
Yay starfield video! Boo ai thumbnail!
Id tell her to exploar the universe.
Someday you should make a video about how to lose actual viewers of your channel... Maybe you could go in the same book as Boogie2988
Its genuinely impressive to me that videos of his fallout 4 playthrough have more views than this starfield video.
That screams to me that Bethesda really missed the mark on world building for starfield. Its almost like it was procedurally generated with little to-no room for custom world design.
Who pissed in your cereal? He went back to Fallout soon after. Can't blame him for trying to get some variety.
This is starting to remind me of lies of p
I really wish there would have been a third option to destroy her because she killed somebody
Damn nobody cares about starfield the average fallout lore video gets 3x times more views even for a game as old and bad as fallout 4
You should play America rising 2 fallout 4
I did a bad job in this on purpose and shot her as she jumped away just to see the outcome and a week or so later I randomly was attacked by Juno lol (un)luckily I was in my strongest ship and she was dust in milliseconds. I don't know if that was because I tried my hardest to 'change' her or because I shot at her before she jumped away... or just because my chick is so hot xD
I don't think there REALLY is a path where you really DO bring her in. Thanks to the stupid snowflake devs, the only difference I'd found is whether the operatives live or die.
When is fallout returning?
Thanks!