Why Musicians Suffer From Memory Slips (and How To Stop Them For Good)
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- Опубліковано 14 чер 2024
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I play for almost 60 years harmonica and for 5 years violin. The video is great. I completely agree. I exercised the aural memory with the harmonica and I was helped a lot in playing the violin.
Thanks, Konstantinos. Great to get some real-world experiences backing up these ideas!
Glenn Gould was reported to practice the piano while the sound of it was drowned out by that of a vacuum cleaner nearby. His cleaning lady did this to him to annoy him but he found it strengthened his kinestetic and theoretical memory!
He also learned certain pieces without touching the piano until one or two days before the concert. This was to prevent technical problems from distract him from the way he wanted it to sound, but it certainly helped him with his theoretical memory. Since he also imagined during the practice sessions how it would feel to play those notes and chords, he also practiced his muscle memory that way. (A method for advanced players, I must admit…)😊
As you age, you'll understand that playing in the moment is all it takes, and trust that it surfaces at the appropriate time.
Thank youuuuuuu Mark you are not only a musician but a memory expert.
You are one of the best teachers in the world.
Memory type 4: GEOMETRIC
(We could call this visual)
It doesn't fit into the other memory types, but for me as a pianist it's really important. Different melodies/chords/arpeggios form different shapes on the piano which interact with each other during the course of the piece. I'm sure it's very much the same with guitar, and other instruments.
I thought i was the only one! I’ve asked all my friends and relatives, they all call me crazy 😵💫
Good point. I learned the chords and scales exactly like this.
Once again very useful hints. Much appreciated. I have been conscious of it, but now that you have said it as well, I will begin to practice a different way. It won't be easy, but it will be worthwhile.
I'm afraid that's usually the way it is. Taking the harder choices in the short-term is what makes things easier in the long-term...
I am learning to play the clarinet. It is difficult, so your explanation was very helpful, indeed. Thank you so much.
Great information delivered clearly. Thank you!
Your explanation is so clear Mark, thank you !!!💜
Glad you think so, Ines! And thanks for the feedback.
Awesome video and thank you for sharing 💙💙👍
Thank you so much for this video! This is the exact information I’ve been looking for for months without success, and have been very frustrated by my inability to make progress in memorizing pieces. First time viewer turned sub. Keep up the great work!
You are so welcome, Kristin! Thanks for subscribing and hope you enjoy my other videos.
Spot on. Completely concur with everything said here, from my own experience memorising pieces on the piano. A couple of things I could add which are variations on these three pillars. Firstly playing through an entire piece with eyes closed - on the piano this removes the visual element of seeing which notes you are playing. Second, I try to simply think through every note of the piece in my mind, away from the instrument. I've actually memorised pieces from the start like this, just sitting with the sheet music and mentally rehearsing it until I can recite it in my mind. An extension of this would be to actually write out the sheet music from memory, though I don't find this necessary usually. Then I 'know' the music and only have to rehearse the physical act of playing it and never actually play from the copy.
Great ideas, Iain. Thanks for sharing them.
The practice of playing something mentally is something I just recently hit on. I play guitar & sing at farmers markets and in front of convenience stores. I just started teaching myself how to read music. It never occurred to me before that I would ever be able to do such a thing. Necessity truly is the mother of invention.
Yes, and performing with your eyes closed lends the impression that you are rhapsodic about the music.
Thank you so much for this! In 3 weeks i'm playing Ysaye Violin Sonata on my final exam of Bachelor 3rd year, so i will work on those 3 aspects.
Few months back, but how did it go? Also cool piece
@@tekgewet It went well, they gave me a 9 out of 10:)
@@aletheawitmer nice!
I appreciate your persistence. So I persevere with changes to my practice techniques. Thank you!
You are so welcome, Joseph! Stick with it.
Very helpful! Thank you👍🏼
You're welcome, Jonas!
this message is heavy. Very valuable material. Will try some of the techniques. Already, I have found myself waking up at night thinking my way through a melodic passage. Will try the others, now as well, being aware of them. Thank you.
Glad it was helpful, Hal! Yes, there's some heavy stuff here. I find it good to apply to a few things and see how I get on. The more you do all these things deliberately, the more you'll apply them "naturally" later. So, for a lot of stuff, you hopefully won't have to go to such detailed lengths in the future...
I think many beginners and amateur only do the muscle memory. Theoretical memorization sounds like a very good idea but daunting because you need to actually recognize the chords and make sense of what you see. In the end it's not smart to just see the notes without seeing the chord progression or whatever. I know I suck hard at this.
Exactly what I needed. Yesterday I made a massiv bad lesson due to anxiety with a piece I know. Im a new subscriber. I really have looked for more methods to relay on.
So glad it was helpful, Kristina.
Great video.
The link between stage fright and memory would be a good thing to cover. Stage fright makes me forget how the song goes, how to play guitar and what my name is and where I am.
This video really reminds me of a nice day of my life. On that day I was so happy and I can't forget it. thank you so much my friend 😀🌹❤🙏
You might include visual memory although it´ s related to physical
Brillant Mark - Memory a big one for me. spoils my pleasure . must have the music - will try your tips. thank you so much.
You are very welcome, Sheelagh.
Playing at a funeral once, whilst sitting in the wings I completely forgot the first phrase of the piece I was about to play (I had learned the piece the previous day) - To say I was sweating blood was an understatement - In my head I then pictured the interval and rhythm of the first bar. This is a good example of theory to the rescue.....
Also remember - 'The master has failed more than the apprentice has tried' and 'practice not until you get it right.......but until you can't get it wrong'.....!!
Great story, Josh! Thanks for sharing it and demonstrating how helpful it can be to have alternatives to fall back on.
The last line is a beauty. I'll keep that in mind.
A very interesting video, but, what about musicians like me (way beyond grade 8,btw) who have zero memory function! I couldn't memorize a poem when I was at school (not a specific poem, but any poem!), I have performed Mozarts clarinet concerto in public yet cannot play Twinkle, Twinkle without music. Sadly, for some of us there is no hope!!!
Very helpful
One thing you could add is to listen to the music repeatedly - that's how the Suzuki violin method works.
Also, for tip three, transposing is also great to really cement the song in the brain!
Great suggestion, Erik. I like it!
I have violin pieces that I played for only a few months 6 years ago and still can play exact notes and tempo just by hearing it once
Great method , well thought out , intelligently explained. It’s seems to me that this is coming from “ do as I say and do as I do” and not “do as I say and not as I do”
The best way to memorize a classical piece on flute is to play it over and over. For guitar memorize the sequence of the chords. For piano play it over and over again same as flute. I say this from my own experience with these 3 instruments... oh and works for saxophone too.
Thank you very much for this valuable information. I always had difficulty memorizing my guitar playing. My personal main tricks are: 1 no Ego, do not try to be better than you are. Failures are only funny. Play to friends even if they do not like it. This will motivate you to make it better next time. 2. play the piece very slow, even if it is a fast piece. 3 do other things at the same time: read a book, watch a movie or talk to somebody. Many advanced guitar player do this. 4 learning Chinese. This was my personal favorite. This has rewired my brain completely. Before learning Chinese, I was completely unable to play without music sheets. 🙃. There would be many more tricks. But it was very important that you have addressed this topic, as all students will sooner or later face this issue 🤓😋🥰.
In my case the method is definitely the physical one. It is so strong that I can't help it!. After having studied a score thoroughly, my left hand moves almost by itself along the fingerboard of the cello.
Have you tried attempting to remember the notes without moving your hand? Or to sing without moving your hands? It will be really tough at first but it can bring significant benefits if you satrt to include other aspects of memory.
@@PlayInTheZone to sing without moving hands is something I've done all my life long. I even did it while I played! But I don't think I could remember the notes without moving hands...
Thank you man for these very good tips. I agree with you but it's difficult to apply and especially singing thé mélodie. M'y problem.. merci beaucoup
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What you are describing are the pillars of any spiritual or religious tradition in the world. What you think is specific to music/sports is...not...it's just a universal law. Simplified in my teaching into a triangle of see it/say it/do it. No-thing is separate
@@alisonsalter8352 you are wrong
@@robbirose7032 May you find peace, love and joy within. Once you have found that within yourself rather than in an external object, then you will not feel the need to knock another person down. 🙏🏽
I'm 40 now and I found out a couple of years ago that 'Aphantasia' is a thing and I have it.. I have no minds eye and can't imagine my instruments while I'm not holding it.
I constantly wonder how it has affected the way that I learn and remember things. I've never gotten better at art, despite studying it for years at school. I definitely can't remember pages of musical notes, although I taught myself to sight read through INTENSE practice. I have no spacial awareness and I get lost in places I've been to before because I have no internal 'map'. I definitely learn by muscle memory when it comes to piano. But guitar I definitely imagine the note and then my fingers move there by themselves almost. It's like pre-free will. It's automatic before I'm even aware of it.
I never actually try to fully memorize pieces since I haven’t had to, but some I’ve played so many times I have them memorized, for the most part it’s a mix of aural and physical that help me memorize things and a little bit of theoretical since I probably could right out all the rhythms but they might not be 100% accurately and it really depends on the song. I use my ears a lot when playing in general, I can read music but if I can hear what it has to sound like it’s easier to match, especially more complex things like maybe a soli. I play bass clarinet and tenor saxophone so a lot of what I do memorize is from jazz music I play on either instrument
The law of motivation is also present in the equation, but I have actually done 'writing out the score' as a way to do 'theoretical' note learning, admittedly when I was in my teens. Because I couldn't at that time afford to buy music, using borrowed library copies I was lucky to find, and in total breach of all known copyright law, I wrote out the solo horn parts on manuscript in biro (notoriously inadvisable but in this case it did not blotch) for the fourth Mozart horn concerto from the tiny Eulenburg miniature score, because the practice version in the Otto Langey horn tutor was incorrect and in ink for Jean Francaix' Canon à l'Octave from the horn album, of which I now own a legit copy, in the excellent Oubradous album series Les Contemporains Ecrivent pour les Instruments à Vent, still good value even though the series title is almost certainly no longer true.
I still remember all the notes.
Ok so now you have to make a video showing how to memorize the 3 ways to memorize music
Thank you for these tips, Mark. Your breakdown of memorization is very encouraging for someone with 'mediocre' memory like myself. Could I add that we are also impacted by the way we've been taught our instrument. Some instruments are encouraged to learn by heart (piano, strings) while others are rarely challenged by their teachers to memorize (many wind instruments). Apart from being required to learn scales, thirds, fifths and so on, it was never a requirement for me as a clarinet student to memorize a piece. That's a pity. If you don't practice the skill, it certainly won't miraculously appear! And yet ... why can a passage of something we hear repeat endlessly in our head for hours (into the wee hours :/ ) due to no effort of our own and yet a passage we want to learn be so elusive?!
Glad this was helpful. I suspect that different teachers put different emphasis on memorisation across all instruments, don't they? I wasn't aware that there were particular instruments where all teachers focus on it more or less?
@@PlayInTheZone It's a good question and it would be interesting to know more. Perhaps your students would have something to add about their own experiences? I can only speak from personal experience growing up in the USA and then more recently here in France. In music school recitals one often sees the young pianist / harpist / violinist playing from memory and the wind instrument student playing from the score. Regardless, I'm convinced we can all play from memory if we train that skill :)
@@PlayInTheZone Thks for the useful tips, enlightening!!👍,....I will have to remember to watch more of your videos 🙂
Some people memorize by muscle memory, some by simultaneous inner cognitive functions as solfege, visualition etc. Also good Meta cognitive strategies are useful. There is not one way which is the best. It depends of the preferences but in general the best results are there when you know how to study.
Absolutely, there is not one "right" way. However, the most reliable results come when you combine all the different approaches you have mentioned here rather than relying on just one single one. (You'll always find that one approach is stronger for you than the others. But it's still helpful to work a bit with your "weaker" approaches)
It happens because life happens and so should the changes within a song.
"Play the tune in every key, and it will come to you." Art Tatum. That's how to avoid memory slips. Stop reading; start transposing.
i beg to differ, i don’t think it’s target-oriented to separate physical and aural memorization. IMHO: the one necessarily comes with the other, so i don’t see a particular benefit in separating those two.
Bach. I always have trouble memorising some technical aspects in some Bach pieces.
Hi I play banjo/mandolin/whistle by memory and can’t read a note is that a good thing or not I’ve played with a couple of Ballad groups over the years I’m 70 yrs of age is it worth while starting now I learned chords from utube and the have to memorize them when playing your video is great enjoyed it a lot Thanks 👍
Whether it's important to read music or not depends on your goals. Ask yourself whether you're being blocked from achieving what you want to because you can't read music.
THank you ,Mark. I will certainly apply all three. However writingout even a few measures of a Beethoven sonata would be a singular challenge LOL
Absolutely, Dana. It's a good plan to do this for small sections and see how you go. Then you can do it when needed in the future (rather than always checking you're able to write everything out perfectly). It's about strengthening the different approaches rather than being able to do "party tricks".
@@PlayInTheZone totally.
Well yes you see I always thought it was because I am only a moron when I get in front of an audience!
Hmmm. Try " purple haze", only the 2 first notes. Even with the text, you can't get it without to see his fingers...
I remember melody and Rhythm ok but have problems remembering, or recognising chords quickly. Do you have any specific videos for this? Thanks
Afraid not, Chris. You'll have to look elsewhere for that.
Also the more songs you play and try to memorize the more past songs will slip out
I thought this would a great video since i slipped up last weekend at a gig. Turns out I was already using these 3 ways to memorize and I am just a special kind of stupid
Memorizing lyrics is a problem. Takes weeks or even months to do it! Any tips?
so no visual memory?
Hi Mark, isn't playing from memory always a combination of these three disciplines?
Absolutely, Hans. But people are naturally much stronger on one than the other two. Unless you specifically work to strengthen the ones that don't come so naturally they'll remain weak.
@@PlayInTheZone I think it is as well. My memory is not that great, so I always struggle memorizing pieces. When my physical memory lacks, I try to picture the score in my head together with sorting out the notes that have to be played and what's logical regarding the notes that I've already played...but it's still a struggle. For instance; I can play the 3th impromptu from Schubert by heart, but I can't play Brahms intermezzo op.118 no.2 by heart. It's a shame :-(
I find I apply muscle memory most when it's a fast passage (no time to think about the others!), melody when it's a melodically simple part I know well and can actually hum from memory, then resort to theory if there are tiny nuances like one or two notes change between repetitions or there's a half note. Also theory helps for the beginning of the song, then it often flows from there :)
I started piano lessons after retiring. I can read music but I can’t memorize pieces only small phrases. My teacher said I am old so that’s my problem. Any suggestions?
It's generally harder to memorise things when you're older than it was when you were young. But it's still possible if you go about it in the right way. I've got a whole course on the subject here: playinthezone.com/memorise-music-course/ (and the web page explains the general ideas of how you need to work to memorise effectively)
A force de jouer tous les morceaux des élèves au piano (300 au moins) ça en fait des pages on arrive plus à jouer les nôtres par cœur appassionatta Beethoven campanella listz étude révolutionnaire etc ..les morceaux de jazz encore ça va. Avec les grilles et l impro .c'est une concertiste qui l a dit ca si on a par exemple 40 élèves ça fait leur répertoire plus le notre elle' avait que ses morceaux de concert elle Sophie Madaghdjian pianiste classique et jazz.
Yeah well I play guitar but knowing I want to quit cause its never in tune, I used the tuner got it ficking brought tonshops no still hearing strings rattling and buzzing it's fucked someone else tried it's in tune I try it's out of tune
So I quit
Bonjour
Hey Mark, this is a good reminder.
I find this these memory/learning techniques also apply to practicing scale patterns (at least on saxophone). It's true that I want to get a scale pattern under my fingers (1), but I also want to mentally hear it, or sometimes even sing it, (aural - 2), which is really hard especially for diminished or whole tone patterns, but I also want to understand and name the notes (theory - 3).
These techniques are especially useful when moving a pattern to all 12 keys. It's good to mix them up too. Sometimes I'll try to play a pattern only by 'pre-hearing' the next note. I can sometimes catch myself actually making this work where I hear the note and play it and then realize what keys I pressed and what the note is. That's the goal.
Great point, Bob. And I think you're totally right to mix things up. It's not about applying everything every time. It's about making sure you touch base with all the angles often enough that you're getting a good coverage from the different approaches.
AURAL
Another thing is visualization, which I`m totally hopeless at :)
Absolutely! You can "visualise" in each of the 3 modalities. I.e. imagine yourself making the required physical moveements. Or imagine the sound. Or imagine the written score. Really powerful if you can bring them all together at once!
@@PlayInTheZoneI certainly agree with this!! Visualization is something I do all day away from the piano a great aid!! I like jazz so first step is listening no piano. Listen until I can sing. Then play at piano. Chord memory is more difficult for me. I think because different harmonic progressions can fit a melody. But I manage. Memorizing roots in bass LH is extremely helpful.
Or just read the sheet music u know
I read this as I played to my mom ……
i'm not going to be in a performances situation
Personally, I find playing from memory is a very different experience to playing from the music. So I like to play this way even if I'm not performing. But totally fine if it's not for you!
Too much blinking
No problem if you have synesthesia 🎶🌈🌈🎶
Weed huh🤷♂️
I don’t see the point if untuning your instrument!🤔
I have all 3 perfectly learnt and yet I still have blanks often... Not helpful
Try solfegging the main melody and spend some time recognizing each interval in it, and relating it to your finger positions for each. Especially try to do this in your head without your instrument. This might be the missing element to connect to the other forms of memory.