Another WILD Elden Ring DLC Theory! | The Truth of St Trina and Messmer Reaction
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- Опубліковано 28 чер 2024
- #eldenring #darksouls #gaming
Original video by @Ontos99 • The Truth of Shadow of...
Elden Ring Shadow of the Erdtree Story Trailer just dropped and its packed FULL of information. We breakdown new DLC details from lore and story to the world setting. Elden Ring is a 2022 action role-playing game developed by FromSoftware. It was directed by Hidetaka Miyazaki with worldbuilding provided by fantasy writer George R. R. Martin.
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0:00 Intro
1:01 Elden Ring DLC Theory
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I'm Ontos. Thank you for reacting my video, Ziostorm. As a long time follower of your channel, I was very happy to get this notification.
If you watch my 'Elden Ring's Metaphysics' video, you'll get a much better context for the timeline I'm proposing.
Especially the GEQ angle you brought up. GEQ is appointed by GW's fingers which is written in the 'Black Flame Ritual' item description, setting the timeline post-Erdtree where the Greater will is the dominant theocracy in the realm. At least that's my reading.
Also RoD is plucked from the 'ring' after Golden order was created which is how GEQ was able to wield it in the first place.
I hope you also react to the metaphysics video and find value in the insights I try to bring to the table.
Much love,
Great video! I will absolutely check out your metaphysics video. You made some great observations here that I had no idea about.
Did anyone ever notice castle morne is full of messimers butterflies and a large commoner burning on a stake?
Are empyreans only Marikas children? Might have placidasax gave birth to a snake/drake empyrean?
Well, the Greater Will most likely existed before the erdtree "It is said that long ago,
the Greater Will sent a golden star bearing a beast into the Lands Between,
which would later become the Elden Ring"
This seems to say greater will came before elden beast (or some such alien beast) and then elden ring was created.
However, I think you bringing up the description of the smithing stone really shakes up the timeline many people are thinking, so kudos.
Ontos is the GOAT, we agree on nearly everything. Very deep lore guy, everything he says is based on items in the game, not wild in the middle of the night click-bait theories. We've had some very good discussions.
miyazaki must be giggling to himself looking at all these theories
Tomdiggity dropped another video yesterday
More like George RR Martin, don’t forget Miyazaki stated himself that Martin wrote everything except the player character
@@epiccthulu nah he said Martin wrote the background world and the basic ideas for characters such as Marika shattering the elden ring and being Radagon or radahn once being a great warrior who held back the stars. Miyazaki specifically said that a mythos for a small part of the past and those main characters was created, but most of that was changed to fit the game so every character and their lore got a big makeover to become more warped, and then everything else was just lore they wrote around what he wrote. George RR Martin himself even said he didn’t write that much and was under stipulations by Miyazaki of what it could be. Specifics like the eternal cities and the nox and miquella’s full plan would not be included in that
@@godly_potatoe69xd19 Wrong, wrong, and wrong. Thankfully Jack Mimic did a video of every interview referencing Martin’s work with citations. Martin wrote 90%
@@epiccthulu I swear in an interview he said “they asked me to write a mythos for before the events of the game as a setting” but kk
Something I haven't seen anybody mention, if you look at the bodies forming the tree next to Marika they are huge compared to her. Look how big the limbs are that are coming out the side compared to Marika's size, they are giants.
I want to agree with you, but Marika/Radagon wasn't that much taller than the Tarnished, and almost everything was big compared to us lol. The bodies could easily be anything in the verse
Except miraka in this trailer is before the giants being killed off
Finding it weird seeing Ziostorms face. His voice is so deep I pictured a house-sized stone Olmec head.
I fucking BURST out laughing at this 😂😂😂😂😂
I didn't take the "abandoning his fate" bit as he (Miquella) cast aside St. Trina. I had the impression that he cast aside his empyrean/golden side. So, we are seeing his literal fall from "grace" and his becoming St. Trina.
I agree with this! Good pointb
I mean the trailer straight up says that's what he divested himself of. So we (they) are theorizing from that. We still know she casts aside her golden side as it is directly said
@@nakiuzuaya I agree that the trailer explicitly states that he cast aside his “golden skin, blinding strength and even his fate”, my point is that while we can reasonably interpret what is meant by him divesting himself of the first two things, we cannot say for certain what is meant by fate. Sure, the imagery goes to St. Trina falling but both Zio and Ontos would agree that imagery in FromSoft cinematics is intentionally obscure or misleading. I just believe that Miquella was the most likely candidate to succeed Marika due to him being the most similar to her. They were both incredibly influential empyreans that had a dual nature. That is why I assume that the fate he is casting aside was that of taking up Marika’s mantle…instead he seems to be forging his own path.
@@nicholasheine6134 Falling down can never be misleading? Down only means one thing.
@@FSVR54 Yes it can. Down is relative. I'm happy to hear you out though. In your own words, what exactly is happening in that image with St. Trina.
I think Miquella would’ve accepted Omens, the problem was that most Omens are spawn-killed, used as slave soldiers, or trapped in a concentration camp underneath Leyndell. There’s simply no opportunity for them to be taken to the Haligtree.
I cant help but think in the first gameplay trailer when the woman says “they were never saints they just happened to be on the losing side of a war.” That she was talking about the omen empire.
it would be cool if he had a secret underground tunnel from the sewers where they had an opportunity to seek refuge in the Haligtree
@@imackamoo2That’d be a very long tunnel, maybe a waygate would been better. But there’s also the fact that Omens have magical shackles on them and that probably prevents them from escaping.
@@Mario-SunshineGalaxy64 yeah, if you look at every omen enemy placement, it’s always due to them being forced to be there. Even the Omen in the Stormveil courtyard, it’s covered in chains and looks like a bodyguard.
There isn’t a single omen that looks comfortably free in the Lands Between. Even the ones inside outcamps in Altus Plateau, they have weapons - of which the description states that these are given to Omen’s by their owners
@@Quoisboyshe was 1000% talking about beings of the crucible. I don’t think omens are the name for them though since omens are humans with aspects of the crucible. They are just primordial beings. The lion dancers, the horned enemy in the picture on Twitter, etc.
i like the way ziostrom seems to operates, Not trying to debunk or invalidate the theories, Rather builds off them or finds minor inconsistencies in them that contradicts the lore in a positive way. Good video
4:49 Maybe that’s why is “the lands between” because she placed it between the Sunlight Realm and the Sun itself, obscuring it in shadow.
I think it's the "Lands between" all the other lands, like the Land of Reeds, etc.
Worth noting that the symbol of the omen is a sun with omen horns, as seen on the Dung Eater's armor and made a mockery of on the Wickermen. It's not supposed to be Messmer's symbol, just like how the fire giant symbols on the knees of the Wickermen are fire giant heads. It's more likely intended to make light of and mock their culture and spiritual symbols. Also, the notion of the Crucible and the Dragons being opposed is strange to me, considering that almost, if not all, of the omen features we see are manifestations of draconic traits. Horns, tails, claws and fangs. Breath weapons, wings, and scales. All draconic in nature. Hell, even Runebears can be tied back to dragons through gravelstone and their eyes. I'm sure it's more complex than a simple "the crucible and the dragons are opposing forces"
Rewatching this part made me think it would be fitting as a GRRM story for the beasts and tree factions to fight over the corpse of the dragon/sun empire.
The Erdtree faction being the winner obviously
@@allthe1 I think this is a good take and the way I'm leaning. I recently watched timdiggity's video about the Gloam-Eyed Queen being a smooth-skinned serpent, with a lot of supporting evidence that makes a lot more narrative sense than what others have speculated. Of course, this would be yet another dragon-adjacent force we see at play in the DLC, as I believe Elden Ring snakes descend from dragons? Don't quote me on that, though. It feels like all roads lead back to Dragons when it comes to the history of the Lands Between, and I don't think there's any satisfying way to frame it where there aren't different factions of dragon-descended cultures at odds with one another.
@@brodiebaxter99 All roads lead to Farum Azula, indeed! 😎
I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that the omen "symbol" is a sun with omen horns. Dung Eater's medallion is a sun with little stylized rays of light emitting from it- I don't know where you're seeing horns. And the armor description tells us what it means: "The heavy, sun-shaped medallion represents both the guidance he once saw, and the ring to which it will one day lead."
Goldmask's headpiece further solidifies the connection: "Its striking design represents both the brilliant inspiration that once shone upon him, and the vision of a ring that he will surely find at the end of his pursuit."
I think it's pretty clear the sun symbology in this case reflects their destiny as Tarnished, called back by the guidance of grace to restore the Elden Ring. The Erdtree itself was once as warm and bright as the sun, or so it's said. For all intents and purposes, the Erdtree is the sun in the Lands Between, or at least served that function in its prime.
Miquella is Alexander.
This guy knows the truth 🙏
@OP Hahahha nice one👌
Wow! Spoilers alert next time please and thank you!
:O
Why is this comment not pinned?
Biggest Theory:
-All Outer Gods are just Demi God's from the Land of Shadows during the time of the Crucible, and oppose the Golden Order due to Marikas sins against them.
-Miqualleas fate was to suppress all the Outer Gods from the Land of Shadows, but finding out Marikas sins, he opposed that fate and separated himself from it, creating St. Trina.
-Messmer seeks revenge because Marika abandoned him in the Land of Shadows after some broken promise. He too wishes to escape the Land of Shadows to claim the Lands Between as his, of which Miquallea was fated to stop.
-The reason why we must stop Messmer is entirely based off his ruthlessness, he has no other motives but to claim what he believes is his Birth right.
That all makes it seems that Land of shadow is something that existed in a previous time or may be existing in a separate time bubble itself like Farum Azula. Marika went to land of shadow to get her demigod status. Hopefully From Soft makes it pretty clear. So far this game has the most coherent lore of all souls games.
Nah, Outer Gods are something greater and more universal. The human brain can't even fully comprehend them, hence "outer"
Miquallea
By your theory's logic...Messmer is the Frenzy flame god. That's why melina reveals her other eye during frenzy ending. A reference to the land of shadow.
@@nayyarrashid4661 It's not time travel. It's akin to something like an evergaol. Its a seal location that is not visible, but is still there.
Miyazaki even states that the Land of Shadows is not some foreign land and occupies the same area as the Lands Between.
Like I've stated in my theory, it seems like Marika simply hides the Lands of Shadows from the Lands Between and seals it to contain those she wronged and to hide the horrors she committed.
This doesn't imply time travel at all, since it's entirely possible for both locations to exist at the same time.
Farrum Azula is very much a physical location in the game that is within the Lands Between. You don't go back in time when traveling there. You only go back in time for the 1 boss fight.
It is possible that the Fire Giants were defeated before the Erd Tree was grown, and then murdered at a later time by betrayal. This would explain why all of the dead Giants are kneeling at the moment they died.
There was a video yesterday about the GEQ being a snake that was very interesting. He said that the "betrayal" was actually Radagon having an affair with the Gloam Eyed Queen and Mesmer being the spawn, which would be the reason for his read hair and the snakes.
That's progressively taking place in my head as the most convincing parentage for Messmer, but I can't wait to find out what will be revealed / left mysterious in the DLC. We're overloaded with content and speculation rn, but I'm bracing for the avalanche of posts that are coming post release
We never see Miquella because Miquella is the player, and all the tarnished characters who've tried to become elden lord and establish an order are a version of Miquella. I will try to keep this as short as possible.
Miquella divested himself of everything. Mind, body, soul... when you divest yourself of everything then you become someone else. Not St. Trina ( he was already st. trina), he becomes "a tarnished of no renown", a rando... he doesn't even have a maiden... and I think there are multiple NPCs who had a hunch about this. Why is Varre literally standing outside where we first spawn into the lands between? he's fishing for Miquella. What he didn't know is how to IDENTIFY the true Miquella tarnished. Ranni knew (I think) which is why she gives us the spirit calling bell and the wolves spirit ash. The purpose of her wielding the power of sleep is to show her alignment with Miquella's dark side (which aligns with Ranni's dark moon ideology). She doesn't need to be St. Trina to put people to sleep.
Also, note that basically EVERYONE in the game loves us and helps us and tries to sway us into being aligned with THEM. There are multiple times NPCs mention there's "just something about us" that makes us likeable... yeah, because we're Miquella.
The tell-tale sign of the true Miquella tarnished was TORRENT. When Torrent liked someone, that was the person... and of course, that is us, the player... again, not everyone KNEW this, although I suspect some of those NPCs from the DLC will be more advanced in their PERCIEVED knowledge of Miquella's intentions and actions.
The player has the power to choose any path. You can help Marika, destroy Marika, help Ranni, become Chaos itself, or whatever. No matter what you do, Miquella wins.
That now poses the question... what about the DLC?
Well, we have only seen so far, TALES of Miquella... this is YOUR story... OUR story. Which path will you walk?
In the grand scheme of things, I believe Elden Ring explores the realm of multiple philosophies, religion, theory of everything, and most evidently, reincarnation. This is a masterpiece in terms of commentary about the human psyche and the universe all bundled into a video game. Incredible stuff!
Yessss. Excellent insight, the concluding point in particular was well chosen! Not only do I agree with all of this but have been tumbling down a similar rabbithole that started last summer with us being Trina..
Addressing how other characters seem to know was great. I've never heard anyone else say this, not only is this theory not been popular (ime) but further, not many people sit down to analyze dialogue for subtext especially in the scope of rejecting your own identity within a conversation
Alas, if this IS what you do to identity subtext simply interpreting NPC dialogue to be directed instead towards Miquella, rather than us, a lot of mimicry is unveiled lol.
There's still a lot more behind this, some of which I've fleshed out and others that have me perplexed. I'm hoping to finalize it all as a bound book, artistic passion project before the DLC and I definitely would love to talk about this a little bit if you're interested!
Thaf being said, either way - great write up, W take and thanks for sharing!
@@Gord-writesGhost Your book idea sounds completely awesome!
Regarding this lore theory, it is my favorite, and one of the top reasons I'm looking forward to the DLC's lore dump.
However, I cannot completely take credit for this take. I heard of this particular take first from a video by a channel called AngelOfThePast here on YT, search for his name and the video title "Elden Ring's Hidden Story" - watch the whole thing. He gets some things "wrong"... but keep in mind, this video was made 2 YEARS ago, way ahead of its time! (and he gets a ton of stuff right)
In the video, he goes hard on why he believes the player is actually Miquella. Although I disagree on some of the things he says, it is a must watch if what I commented here intrigues you just a little bit. I will not spoil it for you.
From there, I have watched other's lore videos and come up with my own thoughts of course. I like to take in multiple perspectives and come up with my own head cannon for some things, and wild guesses on what things mean.
For example...
Another highly recommended lore series comes from a channel called TheCenteredTarnished, playlist "Elden Ring Lore: The Great Works" where he looks at the game's lore from a psychology perspective, namely CG Jung's work. Again, I don't completely agree with all his takes, but it is yet ANOTHER lens from which to view this amazing work of art known as Elden Ring.
I hope that helps with your book research, and I'm down to chat about the lore and what I've gathered from just learning about it in my spare time for the last two years.
Cheers!
I had an interesting conceptual thought about Mesmer's activities. His walking cells in which ALL living beings are fried, people, dragons, fire giants.... in some way represent the Crucible, i.e. mixing ALL life forms together. It also means Melting Furnace. which were used to remove/clean metal from impurities. Maybe Mesmer's entire war is about burning everything to get pure gold for Marika? Forcing savage peoples to culture, religion... "Baptism by fire".
And the theme: Gold from Blood/corpse/dead/Red. These are the conditions for its appearance. Separating the Cultural/Human from the Animal. And like any Division, it is violence.
Gold from base material and blood sacrifices within a crucible via fire is an alchemical principle.
Ontos definitely deserves views, glad you bumped him up man
Im kinda wrapping back around on the idea that Mesmer is a type of Freddie Kruger figure; brutal ruler and tormenter of omens in their sleep. He will use a type of blood flame to mirror mogh’s influence on Miquella while they rest the cocoon. I think the DLC will be, on a surface level, about purging Mesmer and Mogh’s influence from Miquella and liberating the sleep/shadow realm as a result.
I feel like current omens get transported from lands between to the shadow realm in their sleep and getting persecuted there, thats why it says that they have nightmares or whatever. And maybe it wasnt like this before Mesmers purge.
Miyazaki already stated that the DLC won't impact the ending of the base game. I think the only way that could be is for Miquella to end up being an enemy. He will be trying to ascend to godhood himself somehow and we will have to kill him at the end of the DLC, imo.
I see Miquella has cast his charm on you as well.
The Omensmirk mask is modeled after the spirits that haunt the omens' nightmares. I'm not really getting Messmer vibes at all, and he doesn't have any known association with sleep or dreams.
I don't think there's any reason to purge Mohg's influence from Miquella (and I'm not sure why we should assume Messmer has any kind of influence over him), considering Mohg will be dead when we enter the DLC, and Miquella has cast aside everything, including his flesh, to enter the shadow lands. He's just not in that cocoon anymore.
Lastly, I really don't think the shadow lands are a dreamworld. They're never referred to as a "realm," always the "shadow lands" or "lands of shadow." Miyazaki went out of his way to specify in an interview that the DLC isn't in the past or future, or another dimension; it's a physical place that exists alongside the Lands Between that has been "removed or hidden from the rest of the world." Also, considering it's where Marika first set foot and where the Erdtree was born, it just doesn't make sense for it to be a dream or spirit realm.
@@Galamoth06 Okay, hear me out though. What if this DLC's story is even more vague and metaphorical than the base game? It may be a "real" place in the same way the Lands Between is real; I'm thinking the cacoon will serve as a gateway of sorts to the Shadow Realm. It could simply be a place that exists on the other side of the planet where the sun doesn't shine/grace's light does not reach. It could have been the dominant lands at one point until it or the lands between were moved. I also think Miquella will play a role similar to Rani's where you could choose to be a consort for him at the end of the DLC and unlock a new ending; to complete his quest you'll have to kill mesmer for one reason or another. I'm thinking that maybe when Omens fall asleep in the lands between, their consciousness spawns into the Shadow lands where they are tormented by Mesmer or his followers (I have no basis for this, I think it just sounds interesting). Thanks for your response!
26:31
I believe the point being made here is more metaphorical than literal. Radagon is basically the symbol of the golden order, but his red hair is a symbol of the giants, which the description says he despised. So in a sense, the giants being an opposing faction to the golden order means that the giants are the silver to Radagon's gold
I liked the theory mimic raised that part of the reason the Haligtree doesn't grow is that it runs on Miquella blood who is cursed with eternal youth, so the tree itself was stuck unable to grow eternally youthful. Cus then that means that Miquella leaves the tree willingly, and then he gets caught by Mohg.
I actually think Miquella was willingly taken by Mohg and told Malenia he would return.
The only character in the game that would have the want/capability of freeing Mohg and Morgott from the sewers and giving them their runes would be Miquella.
Even if this isn't true, I think it's a main point that everyone loves/respects Miquella and would probably do anything he asked.
@@Timothy2012 Morgott didn't like Miquella, at least he does not admit it. He pretty much curses all of the demigods during his boss fight cutscene claiming them traitors.
An alloy of gold and silver is called electrum, which also means amber. The stars command fate and amber starlight commands the fate of the gods, because the gods are alloys: the empyreans all have double/split existences.
fun fact the thorny spikes that we see impaling the giants are also seen outside of the mountaintops of the giants around a fire monk camp by the eastern tableland grace implying that it may not have any connection to the erdtree and is maybe more symbolic of the fire monks instead
It is going to end with use finding a illusionary wall that leads to a room with a dog on a control panel in it.
Melina's body was in our trunk the whole time
I think he got it right I mean in regards the time line when he noted that the birth of the erdtree and the fight with the gaints was in the same time or that what I understand from him , here is the prove when malina talks about that event in marika's own words "Hark, brave warriors. Hark, my lord Godfrey. We commend your deeds. Guidance hath delivered ye through each ordeal, to the place ye stand. Put the Giants to the sword, and confine the flame atop the mount. Let a new epoch begin. An epoch glistening with life. Brandish the Elden Ring, for the Age of the Erdtree!" focus in this words let the new epoch begin and also Sword Monument tells: "The War against the Giants
Champions battle, trolls betray
Fire vanquished, the era of the Erdtree begins" I think he got it right , nice reaction vid and I should say very good job to the creator of the original vid
What if “shadow of the Erdtree” has a double meaning? We know that it is referring to the shadowed Erdtree, but what if we also see the first Shadow given to an empyrean? We know that Maliketh is Marika’s half-brother, so what if the “shadow of the Erdtree” is Maliketh’s mother/father?
Always enjoy these videos. There's another one you should check out: The Gloam Eyed Queen is a Snake. It's absolutely fascinating.
That was a good one. Only thing wrong I remember from that one was Messmer being consumed by the God Devouring Serpent. Miyazaki confirmed that the dlc does not take place in the past so it wouldn't make any sense timeline wise.
the omen are not in the haligtree by their own choice imo. They fit within the golden order system as low status members. But you never see them in open rebellion against their masters, as opposed to say the misbegotten, or the albinauric village. In leyndell you see that morgott himself is an omen.
I’ve seen a lot of questions of if Miquella ever had working legs and that makes me think about his connection with the Albinuracs
I've seen people say the same about Rennala and her children. We see no feet on Ranni's corpse, know nothing about Rykard's pre-snake form, and Radahn stubbornly uses gravity magic to ride a horse with his legs dragging so much they've become nubs. Rennala crawls on the ground, has odd lanky proportions like the large albinauric woman, and her sweetings made with the egg also cannot walk.
Love that Ontos is getting the recognition. He got some really very interesting speculations and theories in his channel
I think the aspect of the fire giant war happeing before the erdtree is possible due to what we know about mesmer being based off of the old god whos name in part means "tree grower", the trees impaling the giants in the mountains could be his doing
There are also some videos floating around about Blasphemous Rikhard sword and the battle arena looking like visceral flailing corpses in Marika story trailer so there is definitely a connection with the god devouring snake, the shadow land and even Tanith, who comes from a foreign land and is actually manipulating Rykard
Honestly if you did a breakdown of Ontos’ Metaphysics video I would watch that more than once. It’s such a solidly crafted theory. 🙏🏼
I think the seat of the Sun is more likely to be a what lyndel was before the golden order. Elden Ring has a lot of themes around colonization and it's very likely in my opinion that the seat of the Sun and the denizens of that City were yet another footnote in the conquering of the lands between
Super interesting video, especially the bit about the war against the giants coinciding with the birth of the Erdtree. That would line up with Quelaag's theory that there's a cycle of growing new trees and burning the old, so the tree whose power was used against the giants could have been the Erdtree's predecessor, like you said.
This made me think there are going to be some parallels between Marika and Miquella. Marika is driven by her compassion towards those dying and existing as part of the Crucible (which I think is the mountain of bodies we see that forms the core of the Erdtree), so she takes that chaos and forges a new order that's free of death. However, that has a whole bunch of negative effects she didn't anticipate (and evidently a lot of that she did, given her hiding of the Shadow of the Erdtree), and Miquella's actions are out of compassion for those hurt by the new order. I'll be interested to see what Miquella's vision of a better order might be, because I expect it will also have a dark side. Like the guy says in the opening of the gameplay trailer, "Pure and radiant, he wields love to shrive clean the hearts of men. There is nothing more terrifying."
If Shadows are given to Empyreans, then why don't Malenia and Miquella have Shadows? Is it because they are cursed?
15:25 Root Resin states that it was called the Greattree.
>The roots of the Greattree were once linked to those of the Erdtree, or so they say, and it is for this reason catacombs are built around Greattree roots.
I believe the Erdtree was “grafted” onto the root system of the previous tree. Eventually grafted plants experience something where the rootstock (the original plant) starts to overtake the grafted section (fittingly called a scion). In Elden Ring this is figuratively represented in the Omen, which are folks born with aspects of the crucible (the rootstock in this context). The Omen appearing out of the Erdtree is not dissimilar from a mandarin appearing out of an orange tree. Not only that, but the imagery of the tree(s) in the DLC neatly aligns with this; the Erdtree in the center with the shadow tree growing from an offshoot on the trunk, very reminiscent of a tree experiencing reversion. (Also sorry in advance for the amount of times the word “tree” was used in this lmfao).
Do the wyverns have large talons?
Do they have what?
@@Justin9700 Large talons.
I think Messmer’s secret war takes place probably a good amount of time after Marika’s apotheosis.
The Gloam-Eyed Queen being a snake is a very cool idea. Still believe that her consort was Placidusax.
I just found out you have all your Elden Ring stuff in one playlist and I needed to share my joy! Thank you for all of your content brother.
What's amazing is just how much Miyazaki references Gnostic elements in the Elden Ring story. It's interesting that the color purple is the motif for St Trina and her powers, which reminds me of a text I read about Bacchic rituals with the Burning Purple
Idk why but my theory is that messmer was the 1st of the "union" children [ melania and miquella] though he was born similar to the greek goddess athena in which Messmer would be born from a part of marika's physical body
Actually the most consentrated spot of St Trina Lilies is at the church where the giant Albinauric lady sleeps. Behind the church are nearly 20 Trina Lilies suuronding a tree there in the Consecrated Snowfield.
3 weeks out folks! We eatin soon! 🍽️
There will be a plot twist, I'm sure.
You will find Patches kicking you off whenever you are near a cliff.
I think the crooked tree is the tree Marika grew and the straight tree being strangled, is the original crucible great tree. She is stealing the sap and using it to create the "fake" erd tree we see in the base game.
Explains why the Erdtree can be burnt and reborn. It’s just a projection of the real thing
As of this moment, in Eastern Standard Time, it’s 20 Days, 11 Hours, and 52 minutes until Shadow of the Erdtree’s release.
*46 minutes :)
@@Mike-xp8zc 20 Days 5 hours and 20 minutes!!
12:44 i thought those were a product of bloodthorn sorcery. A bunch of those same thorny tree shapes can be found at the Guardians Garrison which is crawling with guilty using blood Thorn sorcery. IIRC those thorny trees can be found anywhere the guilty camps are found and the giants being impaled would imply that they are being judged guilty of a crime.
My theory is that the final boss battle will be a 2v1 vs vati and Miyazaki. Once we defeat them the room will turn black and ziostorm will rise out the darkness. He will look at us, flex, and then say "i am the shadow of the erdtree".
The three places with the greatest concentrations of St Trina's lilies are Village of the Albinaurics, The Apostate Derelict Church where Latenna's quest ends with the sleeping Allbinauric woman, and the Forsaken Ruins in Caelid, which is also where St Trina's sword is found. The fact that Miquella has their own lily, makes me question whether they are the same person, or whether they have a twinned identity, which is very common in the game already.
I think the order of events is war in the land of shadow, birth of the erd tree, and then immediately after war against the Giants who were assisting the denizens of the land of shadow which is why the golden order saw them as a threat
There are tons of St Trina's lilies outside of the ruin where you find the huge albinauric woman in the consecrated snow field.
I’m still perplexed at Miquella and Malenia’s lack of shadow.
Looks like we are going to be forced to progress through the legacy dungeon this time, unless there is a Stormveil side passage type path. This time though I'd like if we choose the other way around, we get a harder boss on that path as a result.
Ontos’ theories are always amazing 🔥
Interesting, also "Ranni" literally means "Queen" in Marathi and Hindi. So I'm pretty certain the Ranni ending is the canonical ending of ER.
I do love the way that FromSoft has crafted this open ended, fading leads lore. It's a great reflection of our real understanding of history. The layers of obscurity that increase out ward from the immediate present creating so many possibilities and they could all be wrong, but our minds cant help but search for connections. The most wild thing though, is how much work they put in to something that may have gone unnoticed. Imagine the off chance that the game flopped and nobody cared about the deep lore.
is it just me or is that corpse on the stairs with all the spears stuck into it wearing the mogh followers robes? also I can't help but notice the white cowl on the giant skeletons in places like selia and the underground cities seems to look like the ones marika pulls the golden strings from?
"misbegottens in the haligtree??"
Miquella: 🎵 OH YES THERE ARE 🎵 😁
"what about omens?"
Miquella: 🎵 let's not go that far 🎵 😬
Marika/Maliketh had to defeat the GEQ. This is how Maliketh gets the rune of death. Did marika pluck it and leave it behind and the GEQ take it later, or did Maliketh defeat the GEQ so Marika could pluck it?
Given the ID idea for this "grand betrayal" I think they had to defeat the GEQ to take the rune of death. Then the golden order was established.
28:10 Another interesting connection:
Iirc, in that church where there is a giant albinauric woman sleeping, there is a tree right outside surrounded by trina lillies, just like the one Zio mentioned
Nice theory and great video as always, cheers from Germany
outlandish theory: Miquella as an Empyrean was or became a vessel for the formless mother (=St Trina).
St trina existed before any of mohgs interference that we know of, and st trina isn't directly associated with anything related to blood or bloodflame, so...no
@@welby4296 Are you saying that you think Mohg invented the Formless Mother? because that's what it sounds like you're saying.
@@EdwardViaTomatothats not all what im saying. Im saying that st trina has no association with the powers of the formless mother, (which is blood) and the only direct connection between miquella and mohg is that...well he was kidnapped by him and exposed to mohg therefore the power of the formless mother, but st trina supposedly disappeared before mohg kidnapped miquella
Even if miquella is a vessel for the formless mother now, which is possible but I don't see it happening, that wouldn't have created st trina because the timeline wouldn't make sense
No, I don't think there's any link between the bleeding Formless Mother and the dreaming St. Trina.
In fact, I don't think any of the outer gods will be expanded upon in the DLC. They will simply remain unknowable.
22 days for dlc
Assuming it releases 1 or 2 hours after midnight like the base game then it's just a little over 20 days actually
As of now 20 days, 11 hours, and 52 minutes.
@@TJuice1986very exciting
That's a compelling piece of lore, any evidence from items to convince me?
@@AmygdalasBalls I haven’t been this excited about anything gaming related for a long long time. Absolutely going to be the best thing to come out of 2024 by a long shot!
I have a theory that the seven followers of Miquella featured in the trailer are the seven soulless demigods in the Wandering Mausoleums.
The general thinking is that Miquella abandoned his old life because the golden order couldn't heal malenia, but I think it was for another reason. Maybe he found out the dark truth about Marika, and set out on his new journey to find a way to bring down the order.
Just fought the elden beast for the 30th time and noticed what looks to be a golden sunset or horizon in the distance. Its actual identical to the backdrop of the scene where marika is holding the rune in the story trailer for the dlc. Felt so cool when i pulled it up lol. What it means i have no clue 😂
you should really do more react content like this mate. This was a great video. Always quality content from you.
I really think in the shot with Merica and the two structures of bodies is her forming the erdtree, creating order in the strands and pulling the two body piles together to form the erdtree. Maybe the purge had to happen for a few reasons, but one reason could be to physically have enough bodies to start forming the erdtree.
Always love your thoughts and analysis sir!
A fascinating video bro, not long to wait now!😮😊
The effect that the pink butterflies have looks like the same as that orange effect that is around what seems to be miquella at the end of the trailer
Vatti said once that he felt the erdtree we know is a parasite. He changed his mind later but i never did. It has always felt, to me, like the elden beast "infected" an existing tree.
I think yggistral/snake-god-gloam-marika theory is some of the best stuff i heard. Also the forging of gold from monsterous and base materials, sacrifices etc within a firey crucible is a basic alchemic principle which ties up a great many things pretty neatly. Finally the threads of the death rune being taken from the eye of a serpent ties up the sealed eye stuff pretty neatly.
At 13:00, we start talking about the war of the Giants. I theorize:
- Godfrey and the Tarnished were divested of grace and banished.
- They were meant to wage war in a far land. And die. The intro and art shows Godfrey is impaled.
- In the DLC trailer #1, the narrator said that all tarnish are meant to be burned in Messmer's flame.
- The stakes used on the mountaintops and their design and sigil invoke Messmer's spear in the image of him sitting on the throne.
What if Godfrey is referred to as the Elden Lord still as to save him some honor as he goes slay the fire giants.
Him being called Elden Lord is propaganda.
Tomdiggity dropped another video yesterday I believe that i think you'll find pretty interesting Ziostorm.
I had always thought that Saint Trina didn’t appear until Miquella embedded himself in the Halifax tree and that was the figure that we saw growing above the cocoon that Mohg ripped out and then I had thought she disappeared when Mohg ripped it out of the tree and that’s where that line she appeared just as quickly as she disappeared came from was only around for brief time while Miquella was doing this ascendance thing.
Since we know that the golden rune shaped post things aren't a new grace, I have an idea as to what they actually might be. From the Helphen's Steeple item description: "Greatsword patterned after the black steeple of the Helphen, the lampwood which guides the dead of the spirit world. The lamplight is similar to grace in appearance, only it is said that it can only be seen by those who met their death in battle." We know that the Tarnished died in battle alongside Godfrey so it only makes sense that we should be able to see them, they are similar to grace in appearance, and I believe that the "Lampwood" in the item description is the name of the shadow tree given by the culture of the shadow lands before Marika's arrival. the golden "sap" dripping from the boughs appears to generate light and could be the source of these lamplights. All this only works if you believe the Shadowlands are the spirit realm mentioned in the item description however so this is a bit of a stretch.
I also have an idea that somehow the "bodies" on the Blasphemous blade are somehow connected to the imagery shown at the beginning of the trailer with Marika holding the golden strands up, they look incredibly similar so I think they could have been created in similar ways.
Awesome breakdown Zio 🙌🏼
Watch, as Melina is revealed as St. Trina and another form of Miquella
i haven’t seen many people mention the pink butterflies are visible in the haligtree mixed among the aeonian butterflies
Just as Marika holding the threads up and weaving the Erdtree is shaped like the rune of life, the plucking of the golden thread from cloth/belly thing is shaped like the rune of death. But that could be a huge stretch on my part lol
Not all Empyrean's had a Shadow, I think it's a matter of winning over the greater will and proving loyalty, or lack of, which they then give you a companion to aid you and watch over your every move. I think they were trying to say that Maliketh wasn't given to Marika till her defeat of the Fire Giants, where she then created the elden ring, plucked the rune of death and gave it to maliketh before sending him to slay the gloam eyed queen.
I don't think the war could have happened before the tree was created. However, there are some loose implications that could imply that the lands we see in the shadow lands were once a part of the. Region near the mount of the giants.
So maybe that could support it but the evidence is literally just a single locatiom and armor associated with it
I still want to know what happened to Miquella and Malenia’s shadows. I don’t remember them ever being referenced.
I would also like to note that after finishing the frenzied flame ending: That the Gloam Eyed Queen, or Melenia, or whoever is actually hunting you, appears to be in the shadow realm. If you look at the sky (you can see the veil), it looks incredibly similar to the dlc sky. I could be wrong, but just kinda felt that connection.
Lastly, I’m pretty sure you can see the butterflies from the dlc trailer in the base game. I believe that in the Halig Tree or on your way that there are butterflies you cannot pick up and if I’m not mistaken they look like the dlc ones.
Thank you Zio Storm. Already preordered... waiting for installation and death over and over,lol. Any idea what levels we need to be? Everyone has theories, however you always have the best vids and info
Maybe the creation of an order without death was something Merika did from the horrors she witnessed being done by the Crucible, something she sought to end and the veiling of the land of shadows was done to impede the death culture of the Crucible from spreading. Maybe that's how Merika and Messmer see themselves as the heroes of their story.
I think the wars could be in close proximity to each other. After all, the shadow war is an unseen war. Maybe the war with the giants isn’t coming to a close or they’re happening simultaneously in some way
3:27 I hear a song from Lies of P inthe background
there is also a metric ton of trina's lily beside the church with towering albinauric sister in the consecrated snowfield. Wich is also obviously connect Trina with Silver via the Albinaurics. Maybe its why you don't find any Albinaurics in the Haligtree ? Because they are St-Trina's followers not Miquella's? idk anyway those theories are fun to think about great vidéo you bring great points
This was cool. Those lost in death and water references makes sense to the Land of Shadows! Because I believe the Devine towers are what’s masking the land of shadow from the Lands between.
15:10 There actually WAS another tree before (and even for some time during) the erdtree, called the great tree, as per the item description of the root resin: "Resin secreted from the roots of the Great tree. Material used in crafting items. The roots of the Great tree drive far and wide through the earth of the Lands Between. They were once entwined with the roots of the Erdtree, or so they say"
Hey Zio, Ontos is right. From Fandom: "When the Rune of Death was plucked from the Elden Ring, and confined, the Golden Order was created, with Queen Marika as its one true god." So that dead maybe pregnant person in the trailer can't possibly be the GEQ as it wasn't until Marika "plucked" the RoD was that it was possible for the GEQ to wield it.
Where you find the golden Amber Starlight it use to be called St. Trinas Hideaway in the game files
Farum Azula has twin bird iconography on the exterior of the building. They possibly were twin bird worshippers
Something just occurred to me: The 'veiled' shape you were talking about with shadow of the erd tree - (Not sure if this video or another one) also shows up in the bedchamber before the boss room with morgott/godfrey. the way the cloth is draped... not sure what info can be drawn from that but... its a thing.
Marika is pulling those gold threads out of the eye of a giant snake head on its side.
Im super into the idea of compressing the timeline.
Have marika running multiple apocalyptic wars at once. Plotting and scheming as she does. Feels like it'd fit her character perfectly.
When everyone brings up the “timeline” I feel like they completely forget that there is an area in the game where time is completely still, which throws off all misconceptions of time moving in a linear fashion. So if anyone talks about, oh the war against the giants happened before or after whatever or something happens before or after it’s fundamentally speculation because when you can freeze time literally anything is possible. The entirety of the shadowlands could take place in a time bubble just like farum azula, so the “war” theoretically could have taken place before during or after any specific instance in time or possibly still happening
So, going back to Rykard's boss room recently, I noticed that the pillars of corpses are somewhat similar to what we see in the dlc trailer. With his already seemingly connection to Messmer with the serpent motif, maybe that's one more thing to add. Maybe whatever Rykard was doing was considered blasphemous due to it being similar to what went down with Marika getting those golden strands.
Also, watching this made me wonder: is Ranni somehow related to Trina/Miquella? Both Ranni and Miquella divested themselves of their flesh to escape their fates, and both want a new order that deals with the moon (Ranni and the dark moon, Miquella and the eclipsed sun). Another interesting thing is that we don't have a proper name for St. Trina. That could be an alias, seeing as how that is so far removed from any other naming convention within the game. Not only that, Trina as a name can mean "triple" or "pure." With the former meaning, what if there is a third existence between them, and what if it's Ranni?
Omens probably aren’t at the Haligtree because they probably follow Morgott or at least Margit as their leader as an omen who is very powerful, grace given, and of royal lineage as displayed by still having horns. And there are other regular omen who also have horns and so must be of royal blood. That’s possibly how they are controlled by Morgott along with the Omenkillers and their nightmares.
About the war with the giants, maybe marika and Godfrey couldn't win until they had the power of the erdtree. So marika ends up creating the tree to finish /win the last war needed to establish the order.