Look how much you have changed! You look so young here lol. Do you still feel this way about the R3's? I found a pair for $800 and might pull the trigger... But your and others reviews of the CSS Audio Criton 1TDX has me hesitant. Which do you prefer?
Hey I just read the comments other people posted. I probably don't need to tell you this. But I felt compelled to say so. Not everyone is going to be encouraging or in agreement some might even by haters, but don't let any of that bother you young man. I for one appreciate your enthusiasm and you including your mom. I've been told women actually home a better sense of hearing to a certain degree. My ex-wife was like your mom. She could point out things in couple of minutes that took me hours. Because she enjoyed the music more than the obsession of the crazy audiophile addiction that we often get caught up with. Music is the reason I got into the hobby in the first place.
Bought these exact speakers 2 weeks ago. Fantastic speakers and constantly blown away by the imaging and how much extra detail im finding in music ive been listening to for over 30 years. Voices sound incredible and really put you in the room with the singer.
Cool review I've always owned floor standers even to the extreme of my monster size 1999 Genesis 300 that I doubt you've ever heard of. I currently have Buchardt SE S400s bookshelf speakers that in fact do sound quite a bit like floor standers. And let's be honest most people don't place so called bookshelf speakers in actual bookshelves. The real name is stand mount speakers and at the end of the day they take up just about the same space as a floor stander. Duh I came to that conclusion after the fact. Although I'm very happy with them after some tweeting and placement changes. Buchardt is in my opinion is a game changer. Mads Buchardt is a complete gentleman and music lover.
A speaker amaze you not when is a full volume, but when a Low volume you hear the Timpani of the orchestra that come from far away and shake your room. This is dynamic and is something that only a big tower can give you.
Excellent review. You have some of the most articulate reviews I’ve ever encountered. Very thorough, and meaningful points in the very important areas. I do wish you’d address tone and timbre more directly as a category of assessment. Thank you I enjoy your style and quality of review.
Danny Arana I’m from the Uk, I got them new with damaged packaging from a company called peter Tyson . Next day delivery in new condition never opened for £675. Including delivery .
@@wobblechopps just reading this, think we got the same speakers from the same company for the same reason lol. Inside, as promised, not a scratch on them. Bargain of a lifetime there.
Yes they can. The Wharfedale Evo 4.2 has similar full range sound to that of a pair of similarly priced mid size floorstanders (in fact, they weigh as much at 13.4 kgs/30lbs.)
KEF has always made great speakers. I still use the KEFs I bought while in college almost 40 years ago for $300 brand new. I now use the KEF Reference model 4.2 that I bought 21 yrs ago. Last month I dragged them to magnolia to addition new amplifiers. The 21 yr old KEF Reference model 4.2's sounded great when compared to brand new $21k B&W diamonds and $17 Martin Logan speakers.
I realize my 180sq foot room could be one of those not large enough for towers. Mind you my towers have wide dispersal drivers (so sound bounces everywhere- and hence center image is off).
@@tee-jaythestereo-bargainph2120 that sounds like 10x26... definitely a good amount of space. I'm going to extensively treat my room and see how it goes. Right now bookshelves do fine with only moderate treatment.
@@shiroitake yeah when i first started the channel , I had only cheap foam pannels once i made my own 4- 4×2 and 4 rugs on top of carpet ohh my it really dampened the room i couldn't believe how good 😆 but i have an extra bedroom thats i think 17x19 and its perfect size for the width and length but its a perfect square no openings so its very noisey i can clap twice and you ll hear it 4x 😆
I don't mind a damn that my wife says, if she doesn't like the speakers in the living room she can move to the neighbor's house and I will be very happy
Yeah she is over in the neighbors bedroom, she just isn't moving in. I am always surprised how many married women want to cheat on their husbands, then realize their husbands are guys like you.
The bass is the catch when it comes to the R3’s. I have the the r300’s and Buchardt s300. They both have more fulfilling bass. The R3’s are a very nice speaker. The bass is a little slow on the R300 compared the R3’s. The cabinet and general build quality of the R3’s is better than the Buchardt. That helps it stay more composed with higher amplification. Any how all that being said with a bigger cabinet you can generally choose to get more efficiency or BASS! “ I’ve demoed the R3’s a couple times”
When you listen to the Elac Adante AF-61 floorstanding speakers, you will find that it has a) all the pros of the best bookshelf speakers out there b) all the pros of the best floorstanders out there and c) none of the cons of either. It is pure magic. I used to own the Pioneer S-3EX (trickle down TADs) and got a chance to audit the TAD R1s. The Elacs seem to negate the issues from both except that the TAD has slightly more bass extension (at 80k/pair, it better do that). These Elacs are a complete steal when you can get them for 3000 bucks/pair. I hate to put it this way, but, everything from KEF is inferior to the the Elac Adante, which is quite possibly the best speaker Andrew Jones has ever made. Kef is still stuck in a time when Andrew Jones was with them ( a long time ago). No other engineer with aptitude has hired on since then, i suppose.
The only reason I would buy stand mount speakers is room volume limitations.Surely these KEF speakers are simply large stand mounts. The term "Book Shelf Speakers" is a misnomer as 100% no one is going to put these on bookshelves. They will in nearly all situations require substantial stands in order to exploit the sonic abilities that they no doubt possess but in doing so they will probably take up the same footprint as My Proac response 3.8. Floorstanders. My point therefore is they should be judged as such. There are lots of "standmounts" That do fine overall but imaging aside they are compromised by their inability to pressurize or energize a larger room. Many now add subs and some go as far as using subs in stereo pairs with spectacular results but in saying that they do not take up less room. I am adding two REL SH/05 subs to my Proac floor standers but I have the room size to allow these wonderful speakers to breath and work in symbiosis stereo pair with the REL's. The subs will disappear sonically allowing the 3.8's to be even better. I ramble a little but I'd say this, imaging is a fine attribute but I value soundstage, dynamics and scale which apart from speakers like Tannoy legacy Arden's, the JBL's you mentioned (although the JBL's do have issues of hollow mid range which I don't like) and a few other top manufacturers, quality stand mounts don't compete with quality floor standers. Add subs and they offer more but add subs to floorstanders and they offer even more. So if the KEF's are not really book shelf speakers, can they compete with floor standing speakers occupying the same footprint but happen not to need stands. Just an opinion but probably not, caveat being room size constraints not being an issue.
I always got the congested midrange feeling from my LS50s, but every time I tried to describe it the KEF fanboys jumped on me. I think you've articulated it well. It's very slight. I'm probably going to replace them with R7 or R11.
Both concentric Elac Ubr62 also bass like floor stander 41hz. Slot loaded allows more placement flexibility and a bit more mellow smooth with silk dome tweeters.
I always like your reviews. Frankly, I am waiting for the next generation of the Kef R series speakers. They should be a major improvement over the current ones.
I saw/read many reviewers comment on the Kef R series that in order for them to shine in the bass department you really have to crank up the volume. So it seems for people who listen mostly at levels >=83db it might be the perfect speakers. People who prefer lower levels are porbably better of with a different model.
Unless on desktop set up, bookshelves are most likely set up on a stand and that take roughly the same footprint as floorstanders. I guess it is possible to put them on an actual shelf or TV/media console or maybe a wall mount set up, but I don't know, do a lot of people actually set them up this way?
See I love reference speakers, I always used KRK when Djing and you get to hear everything, so clean and easy to spot mistakes in mixing . I love have real separation of instruments without 1 muddying the other .
Cost wise the stands people usually buy for book shelfs eats up any price advantage they have over floor standers. I'm old enough to remember when people really did put these into book shelfs. Since no one does that anymore they should be called small speakers imo.
I recently found this channel. I really like your headphone reviews. I would just like to know what kind of sound signature you personally like? It always help to know the bias of the reviewer to get a much better understanding of the product being reviewed. Thank you!
I wish the higher end industry would stop calling smaller cabinet loudspeakers “bookshelves”. With very few exceptions, they would sound terrible if actually used on a bookshelf! In order to get most of these to have a chance at sounding decent, they need stands, and they need to be 2-3 feet from walls. When you do that, they basically take up the same footprint of a floorstander anyway. The benefit is in cost and being easier to move around.
This was one of the (many) reviews which eventually resulted in the equipment I listen to these days. That was then, a whole_lot of research ago, and in something resembling a trip to the past I chose to re-watch this video, playing the audio through my R3's. Like everything else they play, it sounded good. :-)
An equally sized bookshelf speaker will match an equally sized floor-stander. Many floor standing speakers are essentially bookshelf speakers with integrated stands unless they have integrated powered subwoofers. People mistake a mostly empty cabinet in a floor stander as more speaker. I have Golden Ear Triton 3 towers and Tannoy Reveal 502s studio monitors.
Thank you for this great review! Awesome! What would you choose between R3 and R5? And what amp would you go with? My living room is around 60sqm, but I’m not looking to fill it or to have loud auditions. I’m looking for something that would sound amazing at low volume as well. Thank you so much!
Love you review man. All the key words I wanted to hear. Can these be driven by my 1990 techniques amp...I believe 80 watts per channel and if not do you have a recommendation? Subscribed👍
Thanks for your great videos. Love the cinematography and the quality of the sound. Wanted to comment as I was surprised to hear you say that these could sound like floorstanders (I could be misquoting you). I read that their low end is 58hz +-3db. That seems below average for extension in high end speakers at $2K or above. Any comment on the rating. Seems like you’re saying that It goes quite low despite the manufacturers rating? Thanks again!
There's a difference between bass extension and bass quality/clarity/dynamic range. A small woofer can be tuned to reach extremely low but it's never going to give you the same bass quality as a large woofer - it quickly enters into non-linearity and runs out of excursion if you turn up the volume. The same is true for a worse vs better woofer of the same size. And if we're talking about two way bookshelves, it's really hard to make a midwoofer that doesn't sacrifice the midrange to give you great bass - if you try you end up with expensive monster drivers like the 9 kg ATC SB75-150SL or expensive high-tech drivers like the Scanspeak Ellipticor 21WE. Being a 3way, the Kef R3 doesn't need really expensive drivers like that, it gives you a decent woofer tuned for clarity/dynamic range not extension (room gain gives it enough bass for most music) and a decent mid/tweet coax for the rest of the range. That's how it stays affordable and capable of high SPL at the same time, like a floor-stander.
I'm old but to me those speakers just aren't pretty like my Klipsch The Sixes or soon to be Wharfdale Denton 80th, you can spend $1,000,000 on a pair of speakers so I've learned to just enjoy whatever is on-hand but when it comes time to buy... 🤔
What about placement on TV cabinet. Dimensions 2.5m wide 60cm hight 48cm deep. Bookshelves will be placed squire on edges maybe a little turned to center and with some isolation to the cabinet. Choices for me are now: Buchardt P300 (1250 euro) or Kef R3 (1000on sale!) or Acoustic Energy AE500 (900 euro). I know wall distance is an issue but it will be an issue with all of them. In most cases volumes are not played hard and when it is required I can plug the ports with plugs. What would be the best choice in your opinion? Most important is sound stage and depth in a room from 3.3m wide to 6m deep. Sitting at about 3.5m distance.
I find that floor standards also scale the sound stage more convincingly where the guitars actually sound like they're being played by a life sized guitarists
@jay's iyagi, Hi mate, you have exceptional skill to explain speakers, I am very amazed. would you be able to let me know if I want to build a system around R3, what amp in general do you recommend in 2022 to pair with them.
Jay, great vid. Buying LCR for HT. Strongly leaning towards the Kef LS50META. Listening at low volume levels important. Which one would you lean toward for HT use?
Yeah, Kef R series can play very loud and still stay extremely clean. I had to feed my R 900s at least 350 watts (JC1 mono blocks) before they started to complain. That was with the port plugs in (super tight and fast accurate bass) and two of the foam port plugs (there are 4 in each speaker) got pushed out from the pressure. I know exactly what you mean about the LS50s getting a little sloppy when you push them, but with very competent amps they can stay tight to at least 150 watts. A high current 150 watt/ch Parasound amp wasn't enough to fully control the bass in the LS 50s if they were pushed past about 80-90 watts. The LS50s are really 4ohm speakers (they dip to 3.2 ohms) and not exactly efficient. I thought the LS50s were clipping, but after hooking them to the JC1s and rocking Money For Nothing in a very big room, it was obvious that my weaker (yet still quite beefy) amps couldn't drive the LS50s to their full potential.
Nice review. I am currently owing LS50 paired with Yamaha NR-602, not a good combination. I’m contemplating buying a really good amp (need only 1 input for streamer). Having in mind that I am planning to buy B&W 705 s2, in a near future and then upgrade to 805 s2, or maybe 805 floor standing. Therefore, my main concern is to buy an amp that can work well with B&Ws. What amp do you recommend?
I own QUAD S2 with 5 inches driver and ribbon tweeter, love the sound it produces. Thinking to upgrade to this speaker, is this a worth decision? in what aspects it will improve except the bass. I use sub in my set-up.
Just bought kef R3. Quad S2 is more airy and has more resolving power for high. It has better high freq definition in no doubt. Surprisingly quad S2 also has a comparable low capability. R3 has tighter bass and rounded sound overall. Why quad has very limited review information for its good performance is questionable for me.
Awesome video! Your mom sounds awesome! Love the R3 too, but may look for R300 instead. I know the driver is re-worked in R3, but R300 is still awesome. What do you think? Is R3 worth the increased price over older R300?
I'm doing the same thing with the R5 v R500. I can get the R500 for 30% less. They come from 2 different places thought wise. I was also looking at the Elac Adante AS-61, which seemed to also be aimed at the reference. In fact, sonic measurements between the R3 and AS-61 are _very_ similar. The Elac uses an aluminum front baffle, similar to the Reference. But in the end, it's got more issues. I think the new R's are all about speed, and are less fussy with placement (the shadow flare). The older ones are fatter, perhaps slower but to some, a better bass. It's hard for me to justify the extra $ (as little as it really is) for the same sonic signature with a slightly different end-goal. The R11 v the R900 is a perfect demonstration of the 2 mindsets.
@Jay's iyagi : what amp do you recommand for these speakers? 'caus i use to own a Yamaha R-N803d and it was desappointing. Yamaha CA-610 sounds better with it but the amp is underpowered. Same for a Rotel RA-714. Now i'm thinking of Roksan K3, Yam A-S2100, Advance PAris A10... Any though ?
@@Jayiyagi Thanks mate. I've found a Hegel H160. It sounds powerfull but a bit "flat", lacking of some thing. I'm doing positions tests but until now it's not heaven :)
By the time you add a heavy large stand to big stand-mount speakers like this Kef Ref, they are effectively floorstanders but without much of the colouration that can accompany floorstanders. Bookshelf is a misnomer. Stand-mount is a better descriptor for this big speakers.
Just picked up the Lsim 703s myself. Had them for about 10 weeks now. Very hard to beat for the money. As a matter of fact, don't think there is a better standmount speaker at $700 or less. Does not image as well as Kefs, but amazing for what it is.
In your research where you able to find any structural differences in the uni q driver for the R3 vs Ls50 and q 150? I would assume that there is a substantial difference and be curious about what that is. Or are you just paying for the extra driver and cabinet construction? Do you think you would get similar performance by adding a quality sub or 2 to the Ls50? Also what is your referene floor stander? It would be interesting to see this compared with the kef q750 or 950. And thanks for the great review!
I'm thinking of using center speaker with concentric design as Left and Right channel. That would make it closer to a floorstander. Do u have experience running center as L&R?
The question maybe reframed as "Can a bookshelf speaker be an authoritative reprogucer as a floorstander ?" I think the answaer is yes.A floorstander starring around the size of 4311 can sound fully authoeitative. There was a rapture among the aiduo fans when 4310 and its sibling the L88 that they dont sound like a bookshelf speaker, and sounded like a floorstander. Of coutse a floorstander like the Patrician 800 with its 30 inch woofer has a world of its own bt large format bookshelf speaker can be an authoriyative reproducer.
all key image exceptionally well, the more reference the better but even the Qseries have amazing imaging. the ls50 needs more power the the R3 to bring there fullness. infanct all key need power.
Guys, c'mon.,.ya gotta be kidding me. Bookshelf speakers don't suspend in mid air! If you're going to but ANY type of decent bookshelf speakers a good pair of stands are necessary. Wait for it.... The stands are basically the bottom half for the same floor speakers anyway in size! Tighten up fellas and put your big boy pants on and stop b.s.'ing. You probably compromised more than your fair share already. Btw to your point if bookshelves image "much" better than floor stand'ers how are $10k big speakers better? I.m.o. imaging wins over most with all things being equal e.g. clarity, detail and dynamics. Would like to see your response. Keep up the great reviews! Thanks
Do you know that you can build your own speakers and it'll sound better than these?? Partsexpress is where I'm learning to build mine. The crossover is the hard part, I'm not using active
As Starkist used to say, sorry Charlie. These Kef R3 bookshelf systems have a -3dB of 52Hz and any decent floor standing speaker should have bass (flat) to at least 40Hz. Also the cabs are roughly 17"X8"X13" so floor standing probably ain't an option. Not for good sound anyway. Still though, a very interesting video. A buddy had KEF 104.2 systems some years ago and they sounded splendid floor mounted. They were about 3 feet tall and were heavy suckers.
DEMO: ua-cam.com/video/cDLUS18by8U/v-deo.html
Disclaimer/ Personal interest in my reviews - nbtsmedia.com/about-us/
Would you share your opinion between these KEF and the Sonus Faber?
Look how much you have changed! You look so young here lol. Do you still feel this way about the R3's? I found a pair for $800 and might pull the trigger... But your and others reviews of the CSS Audio Criton 1TDX has me hesitant. Which do you prefer?
How you heard the KEF reference 1 Meta? Just wondering how does the R3 compares to the reference 1 thanks.. or could you even make a video about it?
Your doing a great job young man !! Don't pay any attention to people with their negative comments your doing great and enjoying a good clean Hobby
Agree but *you're
Thats a very good point !! 😆
@Fisher Man Does that rule apply to instrumental selections as well?
I clicked for the thumbnail, stayed for the review
Same brah
Hey I just read the comments other people posted. I probably don't need to tell you this. But I felt compelled to say so. Not everyone is going to be encouraging or in agreement some might even by haters, but don't let any of that bother you young man. I for one appreciate your enthusiasm and you including your mom. I've been told women actually home a better sense of hearing to a certain degree. My ex-wife was like your mom. She could point out things in couple of minutes that took me hours. Because she enjoyed the music more than the obsession of the crazy audiophile addiction that we often get caught up with. Music is the reason I got into the hobby in the first place.
Bought these exact speakers 2 weeks ago. Fantastic speakers and constantly blown away by the imaging and how much extra detail im finding in music ive been listening to for over 30 years. Voices sound incredible and really put you in the room with the singer.
I love that you talk about your mother! Sounds like you have a special relationship, good son!!!
Cool review I've always owned floor standers even to the extreme of my monster size 1999 Genesis 300 that I doubt you've ever heard of. I currently have Buchardt SE S400s bookshelf speakers that in fact do sound quite a bit like floor standers. And let's be honest most people don't place so called bookshelf speakers in actual bookshelves. The real name is stand mount speakers and at the end of the day they take up just about the same space as a floor stander. Duh I came to that conclusion after the fact. Although I'm very happy with them after some tweeting and placement changes. Buchardt is in my opinion is a game changer. Mads Buchardt is a complete gentleman and music lover.
Hi. Your reviews are well researched and pertinent. Keep up the good work and always stay impartial. Let your mind speaks what you hear.
I've owned the Kef R3 for a few months. It is almost on par with the Kef Reference 1 sonically. A definite buy over ls50/wireless.
What are the differences between the two series?
@@NiSHAN256 Besides the obvious such as cabinet finish, driver color, and size. I'll take a look at the measurements.
Barbecue Tech Tips thats a big statement to make. Why didnt you keep them?
@@mykeldg I still have the R3 in my listening room.
Barbecue Tech Tips awesome. If its close to the ref 1, this just confirms that it will be my next upgrade
A speaker amaze you not when is a full volume, but when a Low volume you hear the Timpani of the orchestra that come from far away and shake your room.
This is dynamic and is something that only a big tower can give you.
Excellent review. You have some of the most articulate reviews I’ve ever encountered. Very thorough, and meaningful points in the very important areas. I do wish you’d address tone and timbre more directly as a category of assessment. Thank you I enjoy your style and quality of review.
I got 99 upgrade problems but a wife ain’t one
Good one. Funny too.
My wife loves my Tannoy Revolution XT 8F, I just wish my shed was warmer .
Where did you get the Tannoys from?
Danny Arana I’m from the Uk, I got them new with damaged packaging from a company called peter Tyson . Next day delivery in new condition never opened for £675. Including delivery .
Where is Tannoy available in India ? They told me company is closed
Sheel Mirji I’m sorry I don’t have a clue. You live in a beautiful country though. I hope you find some,the sound is incredible.
@@wobblechopps just reading this, think we got the same speakers from the same company for the same reason lol. Inside, as promised, not a scratch on them. Bargain of a lifetime there.
I just bought my Tannoy floor standers while my wife was away for a week ;-)
Yes they can. The Wharfedale Evo 4.2 has similar full range sound to that of a pair of similarly priced mid size floorstanders (in fact, they weigh as much at 13.4 kgs/30lbs.)
Interview Mom, interview Mom, interview Mom!
Totally!!!
I have to agree.
KEF has always made great speakers. I still use the KEFs I bought while in college almost 40 years ago for $300 brand new. I now use the KEF Reference model 4.2 that I bought 21 yrs ago. Last month I dragged them to magnolia to addition new amplifiers. The 21 yr old KEF Reference model 4.2's sounded great when compared to brand new $21k B&W diamonds and $17 Martin Logan speakers.
KEF C20’s with HK components were my first major hifi purchase heading out to college in 1986! Dealer played Peter Gabriel’s ‘So’ and I was hooked.
I have Buchardt s300 bookshelve before I had Canton RC-L realy huge speakers.
Don't miss the Cantons at all.
In a small room a bookshelf can sound better than larger speakers because large speakers need room to breath
I realize my 180sq foot room could be one of those not large enough for towers. Mind you my towers have wide dispersal drivers (so sound bounces everywhere- and hence center image is off).
@@shiroitake I was blown away by the JBL studio 580s towers in my nearfield room 10x12 , 12 to my chair but behind my chair theres another 14ft 😆
@@tee-jaythestereo-bargainph2120 that sounds like 10x26... definitely a good amount of space. I'm going to extensively treat my room and see how it goes. Right now bookshelves do fine with only moderate treatment.
@@shiroitake yeah when i first started the channel , I had only cheap foam pannels once i made my own 4- 4×2 and 4 rugs on top of carpet ohh my it really dampened the room i couldn't believe how good 😆 but i have an extra bedroom thats i think 17x19 and its perfect size for the width and length but its a perfect square no openings so its very noisey i can clap twice and you ll hear it 4x 😆
Damnit.. now i wanna buy the R3’s
My wife encouraged me to buy pretty large floorstanders because she liked the sound of them... Lucky me😅
I don't mind a damn that my wife says, if she doesn't like the speakers in the living room she can move to the neighbor's house and I will be very happy
Let's she know that she could move to my nice and quiet room LOL
Sounds like a healthy marriage
Yeah she is over in the neighbors bedroom, she just isn't moving in. I am always surprised how many married women want to cheat on their husbands, then realize their husbands are guys like you.
Bookshelf speakers for small room along with a subwoofer. Tower speakers for large room and maybe a subwoofer.
I have a pair of Wharfedale Evo 4.2s in a large hall and it fills it with a massive soundstage and deep bass.
The bass is the catch when it comes to the R3’s. I have the the r300’s and Buchardt s300. They both have more fulfilling bass. The R3’s are a very nice speaker. The bass is a little slow on the R300 compared the R3’s. The cabinet and general build quality of the R3’s is better than the Buchardt. That helps it stay more composed with higher amplification. Any how all that being said with a bigger cabinet you can generally choose to get more efficiency or BASS! “ I’ve demoed the R3’s a couple times”
When you listen to the Elac Adante AF-61 floorstanding speakers, you will find that it has a) all the pros of the best bookshelf speakers out there b) all the pros of the best floorstanders out there and c) none of the cons of either. It is pure magic. I used to own the Pioneer S-3EX (trickle down TADs) and got a chance to audit the TAD R1s. The Elacs seem to negate the issues from both except that the TAD has slightly more bass extension (at 80k/pair, it better do that). These Elacs are a complete steal when you can get them for 3000 bucks/pair. I hate to put it this way, but, everything from KEF is inferior to the the Elac Adante, which is quite possibly the best speaker Andrew Jones has ever made. Kef is still stuck in a time when Andrew Jones was with them ( a long time ago). No other engineer with aptitude has hired on since then, i suppose.
The only reason I would buy stand mount speakers is room volume limitations.Surely these KEF speakers are simply large stand mounts. The term "Book Shelf Speakers" is a misnomer as 100% no one is going to put these on bookshelves. They will in nearly all situations require substantial stands in order to exploit the sonic abilities that they no doubt possess but in doing so they will probably take up the same footprint as My Proac response 3.8. Floorstanders. My point therefore is they should be judged as such. There are lots of "standmounts" That do fine overall but imaging aside they are compromised by their inability to pressurize or energize a larger room. Many now add subs and some go as far as using subs in stereo pairs with spectacular results but in saying that they do not take up less room. I am adding two REL SH/05 subs to my Proac floor standers but I have the room size to allow these wonderful speakers to breath and work in symbiosis stereo pair with the REL's. The subs will disappear sonically allowing the 3.8's to be even better. I ramble a little but I'd say this, imaging is a fine attribute but I value soundstage, dynamics and scale which apart from speakers like Tannoy legacy Arden's, the JBL's you mentioned (although the JBL's do have issues of hollow mid range which I don't like) and a few other top manufacturers, quality stand mounts don't compete with quality floor standers. Add subs and they offer more but add subs to floorstanders and they offer even more. So if the KEF's are not really book shelf speakers, can they compete with floor standing speakers occupying the same footprint but happen not to need stands. Just an opinion but probably not, caveat being room size constraints not being an issue.
I found this video to be informative and interesting. Thanks for posting.
I always got the congested midrange feeling from my LS50s, but every time I tried to describe it the KEF fanboys jumped on me. I think you've articulated it well. It's very slight. I'm probably going to replace them with R7 or R11.
Go R3 and use pass through dual sub setup.
Thanks for your always wonderful reviews, Jay. Glad to see you being a good son, too. :-)))
the r3 is not a bookshelf, but a standmount speaker, like the legendary b&w dm602 etc
Where's the white girl in the thumbnail at?
thegrimyeaper this
that's the clickbait lady
that must be his German translator / girlfriend he mentioned in the Purifi amp review
His mom, no?
Both concentric Elac Ubr62 also bass like floor stander 41hz. Slot loaded allows more placement flexibility and a bit more mellow smooth with silk dome tweeters.
I always like your reviews. Frankly, I am waiting for the next generation of the Kef R series speakers. They should be a major improvement over the current ones.
I saw/read many reviewers comment on the Kef R series that in order for them to shine in the bass department you really have to crank up the volume. So it seems for people who listen mostly at levels >=83db it might be the perfect speakers. People who prefer lower levels are porbably better of with a different model.
Great review... I'm still interested in the Tekton Impact Monitors but I'd like to audition the R3.
Good review! Very helpful, thanks!
Unless on desktop set up, bookshelves are most likely set up on a stand and that take roughly the same footprint as floorstanders. I guess it is possible to put them on an actual shelf or TV/media console or maybe a wall mount set up, but I don't know, do a lot of people actually set them up this way?
See I love reference speakers, I always used KRK when Djing and you get to hear everything, so clean and easy to spot mistakes in mixing . I love have real separation of instruments without 1 muddying the other .
Sounds like an awesome mum
Cost wise the stands people usually buy for book shelfs eats up any price advantage they have over floor standers.
I'm old enough to remember when people really did put these into book shelfs. Since no one does that anymore they should be called small speakers imo.
That is very true ! So whats a cool name for small speakers. What shall we call them now? Stand-speakers? (I know I'm bad at this)
I recently found this channel. I really like your headphone reviews. I would just like to know what kind of sound signature you personally like? It always help to know the bias of the reviewer to get a much better understanding of the product being reviewed. Thank you!
After listening to so much I dont really have a preference but more of an understanding and appreciation for each type of sound
I wish the higher end industry would stop calling smaller cabinet loudspeakers “bookshelves”. With very few exceptions, they would sound terrible if actually used on a bookshelf! In order to get most of these to have a chance at sounding decent, they need stands, and they need to be 2-3 feet from walls. When you do that, they basically take up the same footprint of a floorstander anyway. The benefit is in cost and being easier to move around.
This was one of the (many) reviews which eventually resulted in the equipment I listen to these days. That was then, a whole_lot of research ago, and in something resembling a trip to the past I chose to re-watch this video, playing the audio through my R3's. Like everything else they play, it sounded good. :-)
Now you need to review R3 Metas for sure
You should also review and compare the Kef R3 with the Quad Z-2!!! They are on a similar pricetag and I'd be SO interested..
An equally sized bookshelf speaker will match an equally sized floor-stander. Many floor standing speakers are essentially bookshelf speakers with integrated stands unless they have integrated powered subwoofers.
People mistake a mostly empty cabinet in a floor stander as more speaker.
I have Golden Ear Triton 3 towers and Tannoy Reveal 502s studio monitors.
The LS50 are awesome!
Nothing on the R3
I think the number of the drivers play a part. With tower, generally have more drives , thus have much more surface area to produce sound
Wheres the hot girl?
All i got was an asian with a bowlcut :(
Hahaaha. Hello
@@Jayiyagi hello :)
@@xXSinForLifeXx like many of you i skipped through looking for that part of the video and cant find it! timestamp anybody?
😂
Thank you for this great review! Awesome! What would you choose between R3 and R5? And what amp would you go with? My living room is around 60sqm, but I’m not looking to fill it or to have loud auditions. I’m looking for something that would sound amazing at low volume as well. Thank you so much!
After 8 months of waiting for the magnepan LRS I cancelled the order and got the R3s. Now waiting for the R3 back order :)
Love you review man. All the key words I wanted to hear. Can these be driven by my 1990 techniques amp...I believe 80 watts per channel and if not do you have a recommendation? Subscribed👍
Thanks for your great videos. Love the cinematography and the quality of the sound. Wanted to comment as I was surprised to hear you say that these could sound like floorstanders (I could be misquoting you). I read that their low end is 58hz +-3db. That seems below average for extension in high end speakers at $2K or above. Any comment on the rating. Seems like you’re saying that It goes quite low despite the manufacturers rating? Thanks again!
There's a difference between bass extension and bass quality/clarity/dynamic range. A small woofer can be tuned to reach extremely low but it's never going to give you the same bass quality as a large woofer - it quickly enters into non-linearity and runs out of excursion if you turn up the volume. The same is true for a worse vs better woofer of the same size. And if we're talking about two way bookshelves, it's really hard to make a midwoofer that doesn't sacrifice the midrange to give you great bass - if you try you end up with expensive monster drivers like the 9 kg ATC SB75-150SL or expensive high-tech drivers like the Scanspeak Ellipticor 21WE. Being a 3way, the Kef R3 doesn't need really expensive drivers like that, it gives you a decent woofer tuned for clarity/dynamic range not extension (room gain gives it enough bass for most music) and a decent mid/tweet coax for the rest of the range. That's how it stays affordable and capable of high SPL at the same time, like a floor-stander.
Thank you for the great review - appreciate. What amplifier would you recommend for this - that would really bring out the best? Thanks 🙏
I'm old but to me those speakers just aren't pretty like my Klipsch The Sixes or soon to be Wharfdale Denton 80th, you can spend $1,000,000 on a pair of speakers so I've learned to just enjoy whatever is on-hand but when it comes time to buy... 🤔
What about placement on TV cabinet. Dimensions 2.5m wide 60cm hight 48cm deep. Bookshelves will be placed squire on edges maybe a little turned to center and with some isolation to the cabinet. Choices for me are now: Buchardt P300 (1250 euro) or Kef R3 (1000on sale!) or Acoustic Energy AE500 (900 euro). I know wall distance is an issue but it will be an issue with all of them. In most cases volumes are not played hard and when it is required I can plug the ports with plugs. What would be the best choice in your opinion? Most important is sound stage and depth in a room from 3.3m wide to 6m deep. Sitting at about 3.5m distance.
I find that floor standards also scale the sound stage more convincingly where the guitars actually sound like they're being played by a life sized guitarists
Excellent review thanks
My Elac B6.2 are full sounding when I set it to Full range, but in small it's a bit thin.
@jay's iyagi, Hi mate, you have exceptional skill to explain speakers, I am very amazed. would you be able to let me know if I want to build a system around R3, what amp in general do you recommend in 2022 to pair with them.
Tell me, how is the R3 compared to the Dynaudio Evok 20?
It could be the amplifier some bookshelf speakers have built in amplifies so the amplifiers there could be resistance
Jay, great vid. Buying LCR for HT. Strongly leaning towards the Kef LS50META. Listening at low volume levels important. Which one would you lean toward for HT use?
Well in my opinion Kef are one of the best imaging speakers 🔊 it has to do with point source technology, the concentric design.
You would love elac unifi then
Yuriy Kuznetsov I’m sure Andrew Jones did a goof job therr
Yeah, Kef R series can play very loud and still stay extremely clean. I had to feed my R 900s at least 350 watts (JC1 mono blocks) before they started to complain. That was with the port plugs in (super tight and fast accurate bass) and two of the foam port plugs (there are 4 in each speaker) got pushed out from the pressure. I know exactly what you mean about the LS50s getting a little sloppy when you push them, but with very competent amps they can stay tight to at least 150 watts. A high current 150 watt/ch Parasound amp wasn't enough to fully control the bass in the LS 50s if they were pushed past about 80-90 watts. The LS50s are really 4ohm speakers (they dip to 3.2 ohms) and not exactly efficient.
I thought the LS50s were clipping, but after hooking them to the JC1s and rocking Money For Nothing in a very big room, it was obvious that my weaker (yet still quite beefy) amps couldn't drive the LS50s to their full potential.
I own SA Pandion 2 and god, they not only sound like a floor-stander, they sound like a massive floor-stander.
Nice review. I am currently owing LS50 paired with Yamaha NR-602, not a good combination. I’m contemplating buying a really good amp (need only 1 input for streamer). Having in mind that I am planning to buy B&W 705 s2, in a near future and then upgrade to 805 s2, or maybe 805 floor standing. Therefore, my main concern is to buy an amp that can work well with B&Ws. What amp do you recommend?
I own QUAD S2 with 5 inches driver and ribbon tweeter, love the sound it produces. Thinking to upgrade to this speaker, is this a worth decision? in what aspects it will improve except the bass. I use sub in my set-up.
I have the exact same question :)
Just bought kef R3. Quad S2 is more airy and has more resolving power for high. It has better high freq definition in no doubt. Surprisingly quad S2 also has a comparable low capability. R3 has tighter bass and rounded sound overall. Why quad has very limited review information for its good performance is questionable for me.
@@danilbundaya9824 So is the R3 the better speaker, overall? Are you happier with it?
Awesome video! Your mom sounds awesome! Love the R3 too, but may look for R300 instead. I know the driver is re-worked in R3, but R300 is still awesome. What do you think? Is R3 worth the increased price over older R300?
i have the r300 with a svs sub great sounding combo
I'm doing the same thing with the R5 v R500. I can get the R500 for 30% less. They come from 2 different places thought wise. I was also looking at the Elac Adante AS-61, which seemed to also be aimed at the reference. In fact, sonic measurements between the R3 and AS-61 are _very_ similar. The Elac uses an aluminum front baffle, similar to the Reference. But in the end, it's got more issues. I think the new R's are all about speed, and are less fussy with placement (the shadow flare). The older ones are fatter, perhaps slower but to some, a better bass. It's hard for me to justify the extra $ (as little as it really is) for the same sonic signature with a slightly different end-goal. The R11 v the R900 is a perfect demonstration of the 2 mindsets.
Great review! Keep going
@Jay's iyagi : what amp do you recommand for these speakers?
'caus i use to own a Yamaha R-N803d and it was desappointing.
Yamaha CA-610 sounds better with it but the amp is underpowered. Same for a Rotel RA-714.
Now i'm thinking of Roksan K3, Yam A-S2100, Advance PAris A10... Any though ?
I recommend Hegel for KEF and Magnepan speakers. Great synergy in my opinon
@@Jayiyagi Thanks mate. I've found a Hegel H160. It sounds powerfull but a bit "flat", lacking of some thing. I'm doing positions tests but until now it's not heaven :)
Do you think Marantz PM7000N could be a good match to amp the R3? Any better alternative below $16k with Spotify compatibility and sub out?
Marantz pairs well with KEF. I have PM8006 paired with R300s however Hegel also turned out to be a good match - gives it some warmth.
By the time you add a heavy large stand to big stand-mount speakers like this Kef Ref, they are effectively floorstanders but without much of the colouration that can accompany floorstanders. Bookshelf is a misnomer. Stand-mount is a better descriptor for this big speakers.
I have B&W dm602s running with marantz amplification and the 602s really punch hard in the bass like the r3s
The wife is gonna deal with them speakers, speakers are going no where:DD
Love your videos. More power.
Are you sure you don’t want to rename your channel to “The Next BiG Thing Studious”? I’m with Sean and Steve on this. 😂
Please share the details of the music played at the beginning of the video.
Depends who you are!
Hey Jay, to wich speaker you where refereing, when you said you have one that is much better than anything else you heard before? Thanks!
Great job on the review. How do the vocals sound, thin or full and do they sound like a real singer in the room with you?
They sound accurate yet full but they are not holographic like a horn design or anything like that.
They are sure are great speakers, but at $2600. Canadian I'll go with the Polks Lism 703 now at 50% off for less than half the price of the R300
Just picked up the Lsim 703s myself. Had them for about 10 weeks now. Very hard to beat for the money. As a matter of fact, don't think there is a better standmount speaker at $700 or less. Does not image as well as Kefs, but amazing for what it is.
These, or SVS prime bookshelf.
-Appreciate any feedback.
What do you think about the Klipsch R 160 bookshelf speakers
In your research where you able to find any structural differences in the uni q driver for the R3 vs Ls50 and q 150? I would assume that there is a substantial difference and be curious about what that is. Or are you just paying for the extra driver and cabinet construction? Do you think you would get similar performance by adding a quality sub or 2 to the Ls50? Also what is your referene floor stander? It would be interesting to see this compared with the kef q750 or 950. And thanks for the great review!
The Polk LSIM series bookself speakers sound the same as floor standers - in blind tests.
I'm thinking of using center speaker with concentric design as Left and Right channel. That would make it closer to a floorstander. Do u have experience running center as L&R?
The question maybe reframed as "Can a bookshelf speaker be an authoritative reprogucer as a floorstander ?" I think the answaer is yes.A floorstander starring around the size of 4311 can sound fully authoeitative. There was a rapture among the aiduo fans when 4310 and its sibling the L88 that they dont sound like a bookshelf speaker, and sounded like a floorstander. Of coutse a floorstander like the Patrician 800 with its 30 inch woofer has a world of its own bt large format bookshelf speaker can be an authoriyative reproducer.
Hi Jay, I brought a Doge 7 DAC How can I correctly connect it to integrated AMPLIFIER.
How are they compare to the Kef ls 50 wireless? Maybe with the Hegel or Cambridge audio cxa81?
all key image exceptionally well, the more reference the better but even the Qseries have amazing imaging. the ls50 needs more power the the R3 to bring there fullness. infanct all key need power.
Guys, c'mon.,.ya gotta be kidding me. Bookshelf speakers don't suspend in mid air! If you're going to but ANY type of decent bookshelf speakers a good pair of stands are necessary. Wait for it.... The stands are basically the bottom half for the same floor speakers anyway in size! Tighten up fellas and put your big boy pants on and stop b.s.'ing. You probably compromised more than your fair share already. Btw to your point if bookshelves image "much" better than floor stand'ers how are $10k big speakers better? I.m.o. imaging wins over most with all things being equal e.g. clarity, detail and dynamics. Would like to see your response. Keep up the great reviews! Thanks
hey , I have the R3s lovely speaker , im thinking of upgrading my amp to a Hegel H190 , what are your thoughts on the match?
Outstanding review beautifully articulated. Thank you 🎵🎶👍
Do you know that you can build your own speakers and it'll sound better than these?? Partsexpress is where I'm learning to build mine. The crossover is the hard part, I'm not using active
Which amps under US$1500 would you guys recommend with the R11s with ample headroom? Thanks
Is this better than the SVS ultra bookshelves? If it is how much better?
take a shot every time he says "mother" lol
I think I'm gonna need a much much bigger bookshelf...
As Starkist used to say, sorry Charlie. These Kef R3 bookshelf systems have a -3dB of 52Hz and any decent floor standing speaker should have bass (flat) to at least 40Hz. Also the cabs are roughly 17"X8"X13" so floor standing probably ain't an option. Not for good sound anyway. Still though, a very interesting video. A buddy had KEF 104.2 systems some years ago and they sounded splendid floor mounted. They were about 3 feet tall and were heavy suckers.
I don't know... Is the Genelec 8260 a bookshelf speaker?
The Devialet Phantom Reactor sounds bigger than most speakers I've heard.