Whats better? Bookshelf speakers with a sub or floorstanding speakers? | For Beginner Audiophiles
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- Опубліковано 7 січ 2020
- Audiophiles have been asking this question for decades. Whats the better buy? A set of big speakers, or a set of compact speakers with a sub (or two)? In this video, I explore that subject and lay down my take on how to approach this problem.
#ZeroFidelity #Audiophile #HiFi
Shameless self-plug: / zerofidelityhifi - Наука та технологія
Some people think there is a definitive answer to this question. Fact is, there isn't one. We all live in different environments and have different preferences when it comes to the reproduction of sound. Since hi-fi is always a balance of give and take, it's best to focus your attention on the speakers that work best for you - and then worry about the subs later. You can always add more bass should you need it. Edit: Since people want to know what my own preference is, I tend to like towers by themselves.
I'm pretty sure the reason most people clicked on this video is to try to determine what is the right speakers for them, no?
I'm sorry to say, that your arguments are very flawed.
To make it clear from the begginning: I think, everything you say is due to your observations, that reflect what most brands are doing.
Taste is subjective, I will not argue there.
Since most brands do - from a technical point of view - suboptimal things, this is not how reality actually is, just how you most likely percive it.
If you are interested in expanding your horizon with speakers not aiming for wife acceptance or as a status symbol but for audio reproduction, I highly suggest to check out PA and Studio gear (especially Neumann + Genelec)
Yes, a good subwoofer will extend any system, even fullrange ones, BUT! they also allow you, to buy bookshelfs that are not focusing on bass. You can easily get away with 80-100Hz low limit for those (instead the more common 40-60Hz), when using a sub. This opens possibilities, because limitations on the Mid/Midbass chassis are lifted and you can chose from a much wider range of speakers. (Physically speaking you also push the possible crossover for mid/high up a notch and that can have a major impact).
Furthermore setting up a sub individually in the room can be a HUGE advantage because you can utilize good positions for your fronts and bass individually. Also you will get a higher headroom for roomcorrection.
The overall volume is mainly limited by the highs/tweeters, which do not allow for multiple drivers to boost volume without huge drawbacks. There are much more important specs than amount of speakers. Just look at basically any PA Setup. Even small Sub/Sat systems, getting very loud, louder than most Hifi-stuff. They achieve this by going high db/W in general and big where it matters: bass.
This has much more to do with construction choices for the speakers, than size. I do have very capable hifi bookshelfs that are build with chassis more custom to the PA region. They can go pretty low, they are pretty loud with low power(90dB/W, louder than heck of a lot floorstanding ones) and also are capable of some beating, resulting in a high max volume. Even higher, when using a sub.
Yes, you can get louder with more radiating surface, but the real challange is to get a consistent combination.
Btw even without sacrificing good sound quality. Of course you won't get a pinpoint soundstage from most of these speakers (not their goal) but I would take a LD Dave 12 or 15 to a comparison of hifi speakers to 1k and they probably wouldn't do bad.
Going with acutal studio gear, even this is not a concern, those usually just won't go as loud and match the sound most people are used to as good.
Soundstage:
1. The human is pretty much incapable of differentiating sound vertically. So if anything you would get different room responses from hall, which are due to differences in construction choices, not booksheld or floorstanding.
2. Horizontal Soundstage: One of the best stages I have ever heard, was from a floorstanding (in your words inferior in this case) speaker with one fullrange chassis. Again, the construction has much more influence here.
Driver coherency: Many chassis are harder to do. Yes, this is true for most floorstanding speakers, but again, construction. There are 1 Way floorstanding and 3 Way Bookshelf speakers.
Active driving makes a huge difference, 2wBookshelf+Sub or half active floorstanding both can benefit immensly. So again: Contstruction over format.
Cabinet resonating: Again, construction choices. Dividing chambers, stabilizing resonating areas, all these are options.
There is probably more, but I want to focus on one last thing:
You start with one question and than don't even consider one option. Disregarding the sub is an option, but a very bad one! (See arguments on speaker choices, room influences, positioning, volume...)
Instead going bookshelf vs floorstanding is obviously comparing two very different things, that aim at very different goals, while going bookshelf+sub vs floorstanding usually both have very similar goals.
You also send your budget into a different direction. Of course investing nothing into good bass will free money for better mid+high. But to achieve the same goal with adding a sub later, you go up a bracket of possibly thousands €/$, where, and this is the most important part, some of it will be wasted. You don't want to go without any bass in the beginning, so there will be something already covered before buying a sub, which makes this obsolete.
Not considering tastes, from a purely technical point of view (hifi-reproduction, going to more extremes like high volume or low bass), bookshelf+sub is superior in basically every way. (and active>passive)
One thing seldom talked about is "scale" which I think is important to fidelity. Large drivers on a big baffles generate a large wave launch (much the way real instruments do) that interact with the room differently than small point source radiators. Pin point imaging is less important to my listening habits. All other parameters being equal I prefer the larger sound generated by big panel speakers and speakers with large woofers, and multiple drivers. Good as mini monitors can be in many ways they still sound like toy versions of the real thing to me because they don't reproduce the big sound that I think is important to reproducing a life like musical event. This may be why at audio trade show when people are asked to vote for the best sound at the show, they more often vote for the ones featuring very large speakers.
@@socksumi Larger speakers also have more diffraction effects, due to the larger cones themselves in woofers and also baffle areas. In addition, the transient response of larger drivers can be less precise, and the cones themselves have more flex points, as well as intermodulation effects. For overall "big time" sound effect speakers with larger drivers (and more of them) will have some advantages, but there are sacrifices as well. An alternative often not discussed is add a second pair of the same smaller speakers along with a second amp, and have two per stereo channel. Then spread these out a bit on each side to widen the soundstage even more.
@@stevefisher8323 What I am referring to to is the larger wave launch of drivers with a large surface area. This emulates closer the wave launch of actual musical instruments which are almost never point sources but objects of substantial size... such as the resonating body of a guitar or a piano sound board. The larger wave launches emitted by large drivers on large baffles interact with room acoustics (and the human ear) differently than do point sources. The result is a larger or scaled up sound that I find more akin to live instruments.
If I listen to a Steinway grand piano on as speaker such as the Tannoy Westminster Royal or an Altec Model 19. it sounds more true to the scale of the actual piano than it ever could on any number of mini monitors which, as focused and detailed as they may be, still sound like toy versions of the actual piano simply because they lack scale. "Scale" is a seldom talked about quality of loudspeakers that is often overlooked... but in my opinion is very a important aspect of musical realism. Check out the offerings of Kenrick Sound of Japan and his re-manufacturing of enormous JBL Studio speakers from decades back. He is a firm believer in this sound "scale" and achieves it in no uncertain terms in his products. While they may not image as precisely as do mini monitors they sound more true to life in typical listening environments. Their impressive realism is due to many factors but significant among them is the size of the drivers and baffles.
Two channels, 2 floorstanding speakers, 2 subs. Sub on the left side only plays the left channel and the sub on the right side only plays the right channel. Never settle. You deserve it all.
As a lifetime Audiophile who has known some of the deceased legends from Stereophile, I'm highly impressed with your clear, simple, and concise videos on what's not a simple subject for those who care about music, keep up the fantastic work!
Get your dream speakers and sounds system, then take the specs to a good architect and a team of sound engineers to build your new home around them. Easy...
That's how everyone does it nowadays.
I like your style.
That's the way to do it!
Yep acoustic treatment is more important!
Yes, your listening room must be custom designed to eliminate those pesky standing waves.
I’ve shifted to floorstanders because the cost of furniture quality stands matching my desired bookshelf speakers offsets much of the cost of upgrading to floorstanders.
Got lucky and found some quality stands for super cheap and speakers that would've been a couple of grand for cheap also but I live in an area with alot of old people who have the ability to get rid of stuff like that
Monoprice makes some excellent and reasonably priced stands.
Plus if you have bookshelf speakers on stands, it's only a matter of time until a kid or a pet or a drunk person knocks one over.
I've been rocking bookshelf speakers and a subwoofer since the 1990s. I'm not changing.
I cycled through bookshelves until I finally settled on floorstanders, this has always included a subwoofer. The floorstanders brought a weight to music that still makes me happy.
Can u recommend anything with a budget of $700? This is including a floor standing speaker and subwoofer plus wut ever amps I need. Kind of new to speakers stuff and I need recommendations. Watched one of his vids and he recommended the Polk t50 but that was 4 years ago so I'm hesitant. I also have a small room.
Great topic Sean. You know what’s funny. You are the only UA-camr that I know that doesn’t make videos for maximum views and yet you have a healthy sub count and a good following. Respect bro. Keep it up. Don’t quit. Lol
He's all about the unfiltered content.
Thanks for addressing one of the most common dilemmas in audio. For myself in my smallish room I have bookshelf and floorstanders with a sub. Depending on what music I play I like to switch it up. Its all fun
Excellent video. Echos my thoughts and experiences exactly. Very well presented and explained.
I totally agree with you 100%. Also, love the fact that u started with the bottom line. Feels like u turst your veiwers. Thumbs up
Almost a year ago now, I auditioned close to aprox 15-20 floorstanders as well as bookshelf / sub combos. I was lucky enough to hear a pair of Tekton Pendragons at a friend’s place, and knew they were for me. My listening room is of moderate size. They sound great at both low and total rock out volume levels, and also have a broad frequency range. Some people see them and think they’re too big for the room, which is just not true.
Great video as always, Sean.
I used to have a set of infinity crescendo floor standing speakers. My speakers now are a bookshelf scanspeak diy set. I've even listened to the kef meta in that space and was very impressed with them. I should mention I am using a css sdx12 sub. It's very good and found bookshelf speakers can pressurize the room quite nicely. They have to be turned up though to really hit where as a floor standing speaker doesn't.
I have a situation that I'm sure not many have: a bedroom system, a bedroom shape that is not exactly square, & the only place to put speakers being a bookshelf pair on a high plant shelf. So I went with Monitor Audio 100's because of the 8" because I can't run a sub late at night. Those speakers mated to a Rotel A11 MKii provides an incredibly wide range & image. This pairing is as clean & clear & staged as any setup I have ever had & provides incredible low volume late night listening, or during the day @ higher volumes it makes you say "wow" & gives a big smile.
Thx Sean. Just having this going around in my head, so decided to forget it for the moment and focus on monoblocks 😊
I think floor standers with a sub is the best in a fair to large size room. I used to live in a detached home with Tekton Double Impacts and a 12 inch Elac sub rolled off at 60hz, it was fantastic! Now I moved into a townhome where I don’t have room for the sub anymore and man do I miss the complementary low frequencies it used to bring, even if the DI’s can go pretty low. I am not a bass head and despite the fantastic job that the DI’s achieve, once you experienced it... it’s still not the same.
Floorstanders from Andrew Jones (elac adante, etc) have the pros of BOTH bookshelves and floorstanders AND blend with a sub a whole lot better than any bookshelf. I have adante speakers blended in with a rythmik sub at 16 to 40hz. It really comes down to the designer's competence. With Andrew Jones, you can have your cake and eat it too. As far as footprint is concerned, a bookshelf on a stand consumes the same footprint as a floorstander. You are NOT saving any space.
@@kohnfutner9637 My above mentioned setup is for 2.1 channel music for the scrutinizing ear, where i use a blend and NOT a crossover with a servo controlled sealed fast rythmik sub. For movies of course, it's a different more forgiving ball game. I have a 5.2 setup with 2 HSU ported subs (dsp/crossover) that can boom boom boom chest thumping bass all day long! (Could give granpa boomer a heart attack, the way it oughta be). Careful blending of a sub for music is a very difficult process.
You do not need a sub with floorstanders
I'm a basshead & I APPROVE of this message. In other words, I politely disagree w El34. That is, can bass be achieved with floorstanders? Sure, I mean, I guess. Can it be its own, completely non-localized and crossed over sound, adding soul to the music? Not to these ears. Here again: basshead + NOT an audiophile. Plus I revisit Techmaster PEB from time to time. And floors simply can NOT achieve what I'm looking for. Like, ever. So far.
It seems that I did exactly as Sean suggests. I choose the best sounding, largest floor-standers that I could afford (turns out they play -3db at 20 hz in my smallish room and play quite loud on their own - Super Tweeter + Tweeter + Dual 7" Mids + Dual 12" Bass drivers + 12" Passive + Ported). I then SAVED like crazy to purchase Dual Subwoofers. It took more time then I had planned, BUT... Once I added the Dual Subs and crossed over my large Floor-standers at 40 hz my Front channel amp now became even more capable, my Floor-standers became even more dynamic and the Lower Mids and Upper Bass became cleaner and sweater, and I also gained better Bass due to proper placement of the Dual (now three) Subs - Flatter, Deeper, more expansive, and oh so clean and tight regardless of how Loud I play things (Movies included). So as Sean ended with... Yup, it sure did take me quite a bit longer to get there, but man I enjoyed all the time BEFORE having Subs (because I picked Speakers that I simply Loved) and then gain a whole NEW System upon adding the Dual (now three) Subs (the 3rd Sub added to improve 2 Chanel Stereo Frequency response even further + enable Movies to play to downright scary levels with movies like Aquaman, A Quite Place, M.I. Fallout, Godzilla, and more...). So sure I am a nobody, but I do believe that Sean's advice is spot on and I would highly suggest that approach (regardless of how BIG or small the Main speaker purchased is) !!!
You bi or tri amped? At which point did you include a crossover to choose which frequencies went to which speakers?
@@pzboyz72 My large tower Mains already contained all of those drivers and so each driver already crossed over. Therefore I only needed to crossover the Mains with the Dual Subs, for which I used a preamp processor. Choosing the right crossover point for the Mains to Subs (my choices were 30 hz thru 120 hz at 10 hz increments) went like this. First I tried elevating the Mains. 30 hz helped, but 40 hz set them free (i.e. They played with utter ease even at very high volumes). I then tried 50 hz and nothing really to gain. So then I turned to the Subs. Playing around with a TON of placement options (we're talking 2+ months). Then anytime I felt that I had a worthwhile Sub placement (both Subs that is), I would try them with the Mains at both a 40 and 50 hz crossover. I settled on Subwoofer placements that had me flat to 16 hz (down only -3 dB at 10 hz), but more importantly had a bit of a dipped around 40 hz (my Mains always had a nasty peak at 40 hz +7 dB). So with a 40 hz crossover (-3 dB at 40 hz) plus the Subs together dipping slightly around 40-ish, I finally had tamed my worst Bass peak. F.Y.I. I had no EQ at the time so hence all the playing around with Subwoofer(s) placement, and hence me adding the 3rd Sub in order to obtain an even flatter Frequency response. Ps. Waiting for the Emotiva units to offer Dirac (EQ), which will also do 3 Subs correctly (9.3.4 is what I am planning).
I’ve been waiting for this video for a loooooong time.
I built a set of tri trix TL tower speakers from parts express and aded a $100 dayton 10 inch powered sup to a $400 onkyo theater amp which i listen to just music at the moment. I adjusted the eq and the speakers really came alive. They sound great by ear but i am a beginner and have no idea what they should sounds like. I do know without adjusting the eq settings they were pretty flat without the sub. They sound good to me now are definitely loud (i love loud but no one else does) but if you listen to some Edm/dance they will start to distort at real high volume but realistically you would not listen to them at near max. Overall i am happy with the setup seeing as it cost about 1 grand..... the speakers i built are probably equivalent to 800-1000$ towers. These fill up the whole basement for sure, you can feel the sound in the pool table if you crank em.
Alex Blaska Good job. I’m very familiar with Parts Express and the Dayton Audio line they distribute. All good value and performing equipment. They are a bit different from a decade ago when I was building speakers myself. They used to carry very high-end drivers such as Scan-Speak. They still carry nice stuff but not as esoteric as before.
I have multiple systems where one may have two subs, one may have one sub, and another may have no sub. I’m a major advocate of subs and going without.
My main system has no sub: Magnepans powered by a Mark Levinson solid stare power amp sourced by a custom class A tube amp and modest DAC with wifi/bluetooth.
How did the TriTrix build go? Easy? Hard?
Another option: Active bookshelf speakers. DSP will allow for much greater bass extension and a generally flatter frequency response in the room, if designed well.
I have found what to me is the best of both worlds. I've got a pair of Tekton Impact Monitors combined with a pair of Goldenear Forcefield IV subs. The Impact Monitors are essentially the top half of the Double Impacts, so I get amazing mid-bass, mids, and highs. They are also much, much larger than typical bookshelf speakers, so you get a full vertical and horizontal soundstage that's amazing, deep, and layered. With the subs, I get a bass sound that I like better than the DIs. It's tighter, more musical. When I ran into some standing wave problems in my room, I was able to move the subs and adjust the volume to fix it. Couldn't have down that with floorstanders as easily -- if at all. This setup replaced my Klipschorns, and it is superior in almost every way. I even prefer this setup to the much more expensive Moabs floorstanders. Give it a try!
Ditto! I'm in that camp. Great vid! ✌️
Good video. Very accurate. I'm a beginner and has been information overload so good advice you gave.
Thank you Sean. Your explanation makes it obvious.
looks great. happy New Year :)
Forgot to mention, great topic Sean!
Terrific consideration. I think you covered a lot of territory in a short time. Thank you
I have always been a fan of small speakers w/ subs. Had the original M&K David & Goliath. I live in a apt, I have a few pairs of small speakers that I switch over frequently. They all sound different from each other. I like having variety, w/ towers your stuck w/ one pair.
Sean I've been very much pleased with my JBL Studio 230 bookshelf speakers working along with a pair of 5 1/4 inch subwoofers in my bedroom . This combination works just about perfect .
The Information paralysis line really hit home!
It’s easy to overload on reviews that sometimes make it harder to make up your mind more then they help.
One other word of advice I have on most bookshelf vs towers in the same or similar line compared to each other. They will sound VERY similar. Towers will just sound BIGGER and bookshelf’s Smaller, that different is not always night and day but the voicing will be similar. Love the channel and I hope to help others with my reviews as well!
The other consideration is if you live in an apartment or condo, stands help to mitigate sound transmission to your neighbor below.
I went for both.great info and sound reasoning
It greatly depends on what type of person you are. If you're an audiophile, blow the whole budget on the best pair of standmounts you can get. If your budget is high, high end towers are hard to beat. I climbed the speaker ladder from an older pair of Bower & Wilkins to a cheap, but good pair of towers, back to standmounts, but in the High End class, and jumped on a great deal on the big big brother for the standmounts later on. A nice pair of DALI Rubicon 8. Looking back now, I wish I knew now the enjoyment High End speakers give over speakers not that refined. But that's not something everyone appreciate. So if you're not an audiophile, chances are you much rather have deep bass than speakers that sound so livelike that you can't believe some of the sounds actually come from the speakers, and not the real world.
I'm done for, and will probably spend too much money on HiFi, but I will probably live 10 years extra on the enjoyment of it.
I always end up getting floor-standers thinking I don't want to lose out. But, the truth is I tend to get impressed far more often by standmounts. You know a lot of the times when you go to audition speakers, they tend to play a lot of jazz vocals which I also happen to like and in that realm I find standmounts tend to sound better. It is a cleaner and more precise sound. My suggestion is to get both and just unplug speakers cable when you change speakers for different music.
Only 1:41 seconds in and you're already nailing it. You and I have talked before and I love your no no-nonsense, no bs, style. Buy what makes YOU happy and checks all the boxes. Not, oh, these will sound more like what I am looking for once I add this or that. Get the speaker that nails it for you right out of the gates and compliment them with subs or other electronics later.
very articulate thoughts on this matter... as a professional musician (classical) but also music-lover musichphile, i have experimented a lot with speakers with and without subwoofers. if you are going the subwoofer route and you absolutely love music (no cinema stuff), you will need 2 subwoofers, no matter what other 'experts' might tell you. if you want a balanced realistic presentation of your bass frequencies, you will need two subwoofers and be prepared to spend some time experimenting. one single subwoofer, no matter how well integrated, will give you an unbalanced holographic picture of the stereo image. for a small room (my bedroom), i prefer the sound of 2 bookshelf speakers and 2 well integrated subwoofers. once you have convincingly set your crossover, you can balance the subwoofers overall volume/output. in my living room, for a more realistic, being there experience, i definitely prefer my tower speakers without subwoofers. sounds more realistic, organic, more natural.... my 2 cents.
been wanting to understand this topic. cool. thanks
Great answers to some age old questions. To want a system that reaches you deep. Hopefully through the choices made, based on such a fluid explanation on your part? People will gamble on the notions they have. Cheers and hey... great job.
Thanks for the info great topic.
Cheers!
Thank you for the video and good posts in the commentary!
The comments about better soundstage for bookshelf's due to less baffle area (i.e. lower diffraction effects) are spot on. Spherical enclosures make for the best soundstage for this reason.
GREAT SPEECH, GREAT INFORMATION. THANK YOU.
Very nice job.
Thank you.
I'm impressed with your presentation.
I ended up happy with SVS Ultra bookshelves, and an SVS-SB1000 sub
Bookshelf speakers with the SB-1000 is just a perfect match. Such a compact sub with amazing performance. I use Elac B6.2. Do you let the speakers run full-range and just blend the sub's crossover?
@@brydon10, I blend near 60hz using a Marantz SR7002 receiver. Audessy settings (near flat)
@@AverageNiceGuy Ah, nice. I'm running speakers full range and blend the SB-1000 also ~55-60hz. Sounds fantastic. I use an NAD C 326BEE. No room calibration or anything.
@@brydon10 nice! 😎
@@brydon10, yep, I like it when "flat" sounds good 😀
Knowledgeable as always. 😉
A very good talk.
System taste, and configuration are as you said, personal things. I truly want it all, because I have BOTH.
Sometimes soft levels, and then a couple dynamic loud jams! I go for full nightclub effortlessness!
And that calls for multiple patchbayed amps for all six speakers!
1975 w/Ch.
Very helpful, great video
this is something i needed to watch earlier!
I'd say you need a sub regardless of what kind of speaker you have. I have B&W 702 S2's and I still want a sub. No speakers that are affordable to the average man, full range towers or not, can give the kind of bass performance a sub will.
"information paralysis" never heard that term but it describes my nature perfectly.
Then you'll love "analysis paralysis". :)
Now I do understand the point
Thank you for your great video
Wish more folks had done like Steve and reviewed the Tekton Double Impact monitor because it seems like with a sub it might be the Goldilocks solution for some
good report - thanks!
I'm a huge fan of the 2.1 setup. Get the bookshelves you want and the sub you want so you can have ultimate flexibility on placement and sound. Put that sub in the corner and the bookshelves at the ideal location in your listening area.
2.2 is far superior
I felt like i had decided a nice bookshelf is my jam. With decent low end. But after listening to this I really need to do an A-B comparison with some decent floor standers in my smallish space. Specifically at low volumes, as I don't have the opportunity to turn it up to 11 very often.
As a lifetime wannabe audiophile who has several setups and is constantly moving things around and pairing these bookshelves with this sub and these towers with this other sub, and playing around with just 2.0 systems, I totally agree with this advice. Well stated opinion.
Cheers, John!
Agreed; Dual SVS PB 1000’s for $950 = cheap thrills + your speakers of choice
Funny you bring this up today! I was listening to "Metallica Francais pour une Nuit" blu ray on my Paradigm V5 Atoms last night on my Anthem MRX500 and PS4 thought about how much I miss my Paradigm Studio 80. The bookshelves and sub just didn't have the oomph or fullness of the Studio 80 or my previous Studio 60s'
Two 2.2 setups here.2 rooms:-)
The 40w tube amped floorstanders still benefit from subs.
Don't forget the cost of rigid/heavy stands for monitors as well as the powerful amps to drive them. It's not a cheaper solution, but the results are gratifying.
Thanks for sharing your wisdom Sean;-)
Amazing video as well buddy
Very good topic !
Enjoy the journey, what you like today will change. I think I've tried everything at least twice.
Applies to music and many other things in life too.
I have had a lot of speakers. I currently have some B&W bookshelf speakers with a 12" homemade sub. My living room is pretty large. I agree that the previous KEF floor standers filled the room better but small bookshelf speakers work better at lower volume levels I generally listen at. As a student I had a huge set of Mordaunt Short in a few tiny room, boomy and awful. Switched to some KEF coda 7 s and they produced magic in that space
Great video man, cool topic. Just made a 5.1.2 Atmos system for PS4 gaming. I am using Sony Core Series speakers. I am using the SS-CS3 floor standing speakers for the mains. I like to listen to music while gaming, and these sound amazingly good. They have a smaller footprint than the speaker stands that I am using for the surrounds. I am using a Yamaha RX-V685 AV receiver and a Adcom GFA-5400 to power them.
You did very good for adding the power amp to the Sony Towers they are very power hungry ! 6-ohms at 145 watts but once you give them good clean power Ohh my, Even my Marantz AVR on its own didn't have the ⚡To drive the Sony SS-CS3 correctly, so i used the Front Pre-Outs from my Marantz AVR to the Emotiva BasX A-300 2 ch amp to drive them and what a huge difference !! 🌙 and day
@@tee-jaythestereo-bargainph2120 Thank you very much for your comment! The BasX A-300 is an awesome amp!
@@hi-fihaven2257 Yes it is an awesome amp espically for budget price point , I have sent Emotiva many emails to send Sean some audio gear his way, but Emotiva doesn't reply back to my emails, anymore ohh well , Sean knows i have the A-300 all he has to do is say send my way and the amp would be sent right to him ! 😆
It´s easy to agree with you. Its pretty hard to a large floorstanding drivers archive the same bass of a subwoofer and, when it tries to, you usually get a mid worsen.
Thanks for this video, excellent as anything you upload. Me I have 3 systems. An older klipsch 5.1 with bookshelf, center and subwoofer,stern with Polks 707 a Definitive Technology with 2 fronts 8060, a center 8060 and 2 surround 8080 using the 2 fronts also as subwoofers so 5.2 I guess and finally a stereo with Polk LSiM 707 and I have to say that for listening to music I prefer the Polk system, for tv and movies the newer also better def tech is best, but I still can´t let go of the klipsch. I may have a music gear hoarding problem
PS I had forgotten that hidden somewhere I still have a Bose acoustics 5, I do have a hoarding problem
I have an inexpensive pair of Andrew Jones designed Pioneer floor standing speakers (FS-52). Very happy with them.
Have had both, my choice bookshelves and a sub by far.
Why
Can't overstate how valuable this is to a beginner like me-me 😋
Out standing video thanks
You just made up my mind!!! I will be able to save and purchase the Klipsch Forte III by this time next year. Who knows maybe Klipsch will have released the Forte VI sometime this year? I will definitely wait until CES 2021 is over and see if Klipsch announces the new generation of the Forte. Before I purchase the speakers I want.
I recently built a 40x50 shop and wanted an entertainment corner with TV and sound system for my kids and I to watch movies and play xbox as well as listening to music while I work. I have had so much fun playing with buying budget used audio equipment and I'm blown away at the sound you can get for spending $150-$250 on the used market.
I started with some passive editing monitors (like bookshelf speakers) and bought a Sony receiver with a vintage yamaha sub. It sounded pretty decent! Then I traded up to a Denon(for more HDMI inputs and remote) and swapped out my monitors for some Infinity Primus floor standers and a 10" Harman/Kardon active sub. I am super happy with this setup in a large area. I'm in this setup for $200 and it sounds incredible for my purposes.
Only thing I wish is I had more control over the EQ. Maybe add an EQ deck to my setup in the near future.
Very useful tqvm
Excellent video. The sub should always be added if you have the budget and space.
I've been a headphone hobbyist for years and now that my pockets are a bit deeper I'm starting to look into a nice speaker setup for the first time. This was a really helpful video for that. And you're right about information paralysis, it's getting to the point where I just can't make any decisions. It's tougher because I don't live in a big city where there's access to places where I can demo the good stuff before buying. I'm nervous I'll get something I don't like or won't be a good fit for my room and then get saddled up with a bunch of shipping and restocking fees. But still, this was a good push in the right direction, so thanks!
If you have not already, do you best to listen to the speakers first if they are on the expensive side. Even if you have to travel to hear them. Do not trust anyone else's ear. Take as long as you need to make your decision. And buy the speaker that sounds the best to you even if they are expensive. They can last a lifetime and you will be glad you did.
@@walteredwards2683 Thanks for the good advice! I wound up buying and putting together a bookshelf speaker kit from CSS Audio and have been extremely pleased with it. Like you said, it looks like they will last me a good long while :)
This is great advice. I think that a lot of stereophiles will find that, if they focus on getting a great pair of floorstanders, they will be quite happy with their performance and won't even need to augment the lower end with a sub. And of course, even if one does choose to bring in a sub, subwoofers aren't very expensive, so get a great pair of towers, and if you still think they need a little help at the bottom end, get a sub.
I use floorstanding Monitor Audio speakers. The bass didn't really open up for me until I changed my source equipment.
The Kii Three’s work best for me. Great bass even in a small room.
Thanks, Sean! I have often pondered this, as I have only ever owned bookshelf speakers.
My problem is that my income has always been limited enough that I always end up in small rooms and would hate to get floorstanders, only to find that they overpower the room.
And when it comes to bass, my preference has always been for good fast and accurate over how deep it goes. I heard a sound demo of open baffle bass once, and it was amazing.
It may be just what I'm looking for!
Here’s a suggestion: Polk is phasing out its RTI tower speakers which are beautiful with a curved cherry wood
veneer and sound fantastic. You can get them on sale for around $800 per pair (I bought mine for $1450).
I have klipsch the fives and a svs sb-1000 pro in my bedroom with the crossover at 60htz. Sounds fantastic hooked right up to my TV through hdmi arc.
I totally agree with everything you said.
Great topic, here are my two cents.
Dealing with room resonances (30-40 Hz) is in my opinion the main challenge, and bookshelf speakers plus subs give a lot more flexibility to tackle the problem (placement, crossover frequencies, levels). Many subs (and some amps) have high pass filters that allow the bookshelf speakers to play just as loud as floor standers.
SWD exactly, that’s my current dilemma with My tower speakers.
"Many subs (and some amps) have high pass filters that allow the bookshelf speakers to play just as loud as floor standers.
"
Er... no. On avarage, a floorstander will play slightly louder. Because they have 1) more efficiency and 2) more power handling.
Hi SWD, in a small room what (maximum) lower frequency would you suggest for a bookshelf speaker - if pairing with a sub(s) to help fill in the lower end? Thanks.
Bookshelfs could play as loud as floorstanders... but playing fewer frequencies.
I used to prefer floorstanding speakers but I transitioned to a set of bookies with a sub a while ago and I haven't felt the need to go back to the floorstanders. My reasoning is that it is much easier to move and reposition the bookshelf speakers vs moving heavy floorstanding speakers; yes, a set of bookies on stands will occupy the same floorspace but one is easier to position and move than the other. I also like having a sub which will give me just the right amount of bass and is easier to dial in once the main speakers position has been dialed in. I just seem to have more flexibility with a bookshelf + sub setup.
Best advise, "make a leap" I have definitely been that guy with analysis paralysis. You never truly k ow until you try something
I think we need to know the brand and model speaker as well as the room size and it's acoustic properties before making a determination of what's better.
That is very important, if you have a tiny living room and Klipsch Cornwall towers, the acoustics will be out of wack...
Brand and model don't determine sound quality.
Great timing - I just wondered this aloud with my partner today! We have bookshelf speaks w. subwoofer in small room, and floor-standers in larger living room. I enjoy them both for the different reasons you mentioned.
Hi, I´d very much appreciate your help in deciding whether an ELAC Reference DBR62 Floorstanding speakers would go with my Marantz SR 1200 Receiver., and a Yamaha NS-SW 100BL subwoofer. My room is 4meters x 7meters. Thanks in advance
Thanks for the In formed info I'm going to look for audio shops were i can listen to a speaker instead of direct buying from the web.the hype and all that.about some speakers i really want to listen to some elac unifi and the new reference debut.before I purchase.there hard to find were I live.
I use a pair of Wharfdale Diamond 9s with a Wharfdale PowerCube 10" Active sub. All second hand paired with a £55 Nobsound 200w Amp. Couldn't be happier, all for under £150
I tried to get smaller speakers but ending up with the conclusion: There is no substitute for cubic inches! ;-)
The people who say that size doesn't matter are lying to themselves. :D
Krikstar123 as the muscle car guys say...theres no replacement for displacement!!
@@ZeroFidelity yeah well unless you live in a Japanese apartment. With your kids and wife.
I still prefer the cubic inches tucked away. Generally better coherency too.
Ps I actually ended up buying LARGER speakers than before. Haha ;-) Those Klipsch RP-8000F's are amazing! :-)
too many bookshelf speakers have that V curve that a sub can't really fix. A floor standing 3 way give you that essential mid bass.
You are absolutely right. And size matters too
Depends on distance. 3 ways don't image as well, and on top of it if you're in a near field distance 3 ways can sound jumbled
What brand of bookshelves have V shape? Focal? Wharfedale? Dali?
Love your Seiko diver^^
Sean,
I already have dual subwoofers (SVS SB 2000s) that I recently purchased. I currently have a pair of Mirage M290s paired with a Denon AVR X3600H with an Emotiva BasX A-300 powering the M290s. I've had the Mirages since 1996 (my very first set of speakers). What are your recommendations for bookshelves to go with the SVS's if I was looking to step up from the M290s.
Thanks
Mike
Well said!
I am migrating from "towers+1sub" to high end bookshelves+2subs so I will report the results in few days.
IMO an active and servo type low freq driver is a better choice because passive small base drivers with high excursion are prone to more distortion. besides woofers usually have less sensitivity so you need 2 or 3 to balance the low range and it leads to some dips in impedance like 2 ohms or so and finally you can adjust the coherence of base and mids better with separate base driver.
on the paper subs plus high end bookshelf type seems better and I am going to try that in few days....
updates please
@@mustardman2035 Hi, I purchased ns-b951 + two ysw-315 subs with two custom made stands and man its awesome. I plugged the ports of bookshelves and tuned the sub filter to around 80hz. if you need some photos just let me know.
What do you consider a small room vs a large room? Square feet vs Cubic feet? Thanks
One important thing i want to add. Where a few floor standers or full 3 way monitors offer crossover its way easier to to feed the sub first, then use the crossover to create the coherent sound. There is another advantage, when at night i am just editing/premixing dialogues i just disengage the sub, toe in extremely close and it kind of gives me way more focused mid range and when i am designing a scene or mixing bass heavy genres i engage it back. Same with listening, when i am listening to solo higher register instruments like solo violins or singer songwriter kinda even most rock and metal stuff, i prefer it without sub. My monitors are 8 inch so it covers the range pretty well. But if i listen to grand piano or something electronic where a lot of design/variations happens at very low register, i prefer to engage the 12 inch sub for the visceral low end. Just my 2 cents. No disrespect to anyone. Thanks.
Really great points Sean. I just need to jump in and avoid info paralysis. :) I tend to enjoy floorstanding speakers but am not sure I wanna spend that high dollar amount testing things out (with listening rooms in stores more difficult to find now-a-days). Would buying the lesser cost bookshelf speaker be a good option for testing the dynamics and tech within a speaker to later buy the larger speaker when I find I like the sound? Thanks for the great work! -Brad
H2Vinyl When you ask, you’ll find many dealers will allow you in-home trial, with trade in for store credit. No need to buy speakers just for testing purposes.
What do you think about small floorstanding speakers with build in active subwoofers?
You should change your name...to " No BS " LOL! Love the lectures.
I have a setup with bookshelves and 2 subs. And another setup in a completely different home in a different town with floorstanders. I cannot decide which is better for 2 channel music stereo!!!
The answer is having different stereos in every room, this way you not missin out, you can have it all. Listening rooms at home ....small speakers & Subs miss the mid bass. everybody got different tastes tho... i follow this channel too...he Demos BIG speakers... ua-cam.com/channels/5b1QVECAqmbXKgPJHgFNgw.html
I agree with most of what you outlined, but one of the biggest elements left out was the environment acoustics and room size. You might not have the room for floor standing speakers or the ability to position then properly. On the other side, too small of a speaker (bookshelves) might not have the ability to "fill the room" with adequate sound. So, your room might require going with larger speakers like towers.
i started with audio last year with some elac bookshelfs. I had no idea what i like or not but after a couple months, i have more idea about it. I observed my habits and noticed, i am more of a movie person. But i am also in a weird spot that, i am happy with very natural and not overwhelming bass, so when i listen to some setups with subs in, i do get annoyed alot of the time, including the fact that i have neighbours and i actually dont want to get a sub in the near future, since my room allready creates good bass even with bookshelfes alone.
But i will eventually change my plan and go with entirely different speakers alltogether. or repurpose my elacs for surrounds. In Movies...i kind of miss...scale, yes the audio quality is nice, and they have a decent soundstage and all that but...it somehow sounds small. Even tho it sounds nice, you can clarly hear that the sound is coming from small speakers. So i will probably just keep it as astereo setup for now and audition a bunch of floorstanders to safe up for.
Also something that i havent even considered when i bought these (since i had yet to find out, i enjoy movies the most) is the center speaker. The matching center speaker to my current speakers just isnt great. But for how important it is for movies, i kind of need to find a good center speaker with matching mains that i enjoy aswell.
Thanks, Man!