Discussing the Rey/Ahsoka Contradiction
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- Опубліковано 6 тра 2020
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everything you said was spot on. Ahoska is a great example for kids you have to work for what you get in life things don't just fall in your lap.
My likes of the Sequels: Kylo Ren, First Order aesthetic, new star destroyer design, all Kylo Ren's tie fighters... that's it
This is the only channel gets my feelings on the sequels. I was raised by woman. My mother is the strongest person I ever met. The stories weren’t that good. There was no plan. They had a year to reshoot the ending of last Jedi after Carrie passed away. Instead of changing it that Leia sacrifices herself to save Rey and Resistance. Instead of shoehorning in unused footage of her. When it comes to the new characters, they weren’t flushed out properly. Asoka grew on me because the journey, growth and to adds more to the story. Thank you for what you do.
Sebastian Bennett oo9
I love your comment that Ahsoka may be the chosen one. I have already made my opinion known, even to Lucas employees, that Dave Filoni should have been in charge of the last movies of the Skywalker trilogy, since he's been personally groomed by George Lucas himself. I like Rey, don't get me wrong. But I do see and understand some of the negative comments about her, especially since she had very little training, but quickly became so powerful.
Ahsoka, for those who didn't remember, was ~14 when she became Anakin's Padawan. Anakin flat out and told Count Dooku that his powers increased. That could be a combination of age and training. Ahsoka has gotten older and has experience, which can explain her powers getting stronger. Not to mention she hasn't truly giving up on the Jedi order. Especially the non warring side. Let's also not forget the convor that flies over Ahsoka and her possible connection to The Daughter. If there is a connection between Ahsoka and The Daughter, then Ahsoka could become extremely powerful.
I hope the rumors are true that Ahsoka makes an appearance in The Mandalorian and possibly have her own series on Disney +. As long as Dave Filoni is involved, the fans, the true fans, will be excited.
Rey is what happens when people try too hard to write a “strong female character.” Ahsoka is what happens when you write a strong character who happens to be female. Just my take on it.
This! I love the Disney film Moana partially because she's written as a strong character and not once do they mention her gender or does anyone tell her 'she can't do it'. She's not better because she's female, she's just a good character period.
Ahsoka is what happens when u creat a blank slate right. Then proceed to make logical development
There it is! I feel like a lot of people want to create strong female characters just for the representation, which isn't the way to go. If you have to force a character out, it's not gonna turn out good. Just create a character that happens to also be female, they don't have to be constantly strong and fearless.
Many people didnt like ahsoka when they first introduced her. Throughout the seasons of tcw it felt like the character had to EARN the respect of the fans as well as other characters in the show, which she obviously succeeded in. For Rey it felt a lot like they expected us to like and accept her right away and didn't put effort in giving us an actual reason to like her as a character.
You might say that ahsoka had time to have her character developed but my argument is that when you pour a 9-digit amount of money into a movie, its kinda your job to figure it out.
I agree, a good character is a good character, it doesn’t matter if they’re female or male
We don't hate female characters. We hate poorly written characters.
true
Right on point.
Agreed
Thank you. Enough said
that is the stance of most people out there. but i come across channels where the whole comment section is bashing ahsoka no matter how much progress she had. These people does exist. But im just glad ahsoka exists to prove people otherwise that we just like good stories regardless of gender.
Daisy Ridley is a decent actress and having her as Rey was one of the few things that DIDN'T bother me. The writing was just hot garbage and her character was poorly written. It was acted fine
Yeah, Daisy is cool.
Yes, there is no excuse for bad writing. An actor can work with a poor script, but it takes an actor with a lot of talent to do that.
I don't blame Daisy Ridley for her portrayal of Rey and I agree with you on the writing.
The sequels had the same problem the prequels did (bad writing) but multiplied by 10. But the prequels have the Clone Wars cartoon to fill in the gaps and flesh out characters we didn't get to see much of. The added context makes people like the prequels more than they would otherwise. (I grew up with both so I've never disliked them.) Also the characters of the prequels actually had a lot of depth, just poorly written. The sequel characters are very.... surface level, so the writing stands out even more.
I Agree, I feel sorry for Daisy, Disney did a huge injustice to her by giving her that horrible role.
Ashoka worked for everything. She trained for years. Rey just picked up a saber and was instantly amazing. Hate that
Yeah it makes really 0 sense that she should beat Kylo in the first movie.
Finn should have been the main character, such an awesome opportunity. I did not hate The Force Awakens cause I was looking forward to Finn's character but then he and every other character is more or less sidelined.
"Amazing"cough cough. She was never good with lightsabers
Yeah
Rey did have a lifetime of living as a scavenger and was previously martially trained.
It doesn't justify half the crud she gets into but being good with a melee weapon and flying ships were the two things her backstory actually justified well
@@CSDragon Well a lightsaber and a staff are very different weapons, but fair enough
"If Ahsoka was perfect when she started out then that would be a really boring character. You have to give then room to grow."- Ashley Eckstein
I remember when she said that. 😎👌🏻
When did she said that?
Soon as I saw her introduced as an orange alien girl that was the padawan of Anakin Skywalker...
Her interest lvl rose 1000% percent.
That happened in *5 mins*
she was playful and innocent and it made the transformation of anakin that much more interesting too.
Like how could he turn his back on this fun loving Ashoka that looks up to him and even has a friendly nick name for him???
It was like Adult Anakin seeing the fun loving childhood anakin in his own padawan. Its like he betrayed both himself and her by going dark.
whereas rey...was yeah. idk...just bland. Toughness doesn’t always mean no smile. Thats what makes Ashokas toughness a lot cooler.
@@abramsullivan7764 Ashley Eckstein (Ahsoka Tano) Talks Star Wars and More. She says it at 22:58
ua-cam.com/video/fryi3VZ7Uzs/v-deo.html
Exactly. Look at Han Solo for example. He almost abandoned the Rebellion but then he realized his mistake. Luke was arrogant and naive when it came to the force at first but with a greate deal of training he masteredit. Rey stalemated Kylo Ren (although injured) when Kylo Ren should have cut down Rey with 2 swings. It saddens me that they empowered Rey by undermining other characters and the force in general.
Rey’s character could’ve been a male and I would still hate her
Different race, different gender, it dont matter, the fact that the character was written in a way that it was convenient to have plot to be told in 'truth' and 'evidence' for the spot she was claiming to have 'the MAIN character', was not built-up by anything BUT convenience. And what's worse is that, THE CONVENIENCE plays a part with real-life political agenda, and that's how people will see it, no escapism means you have failed the character and it's world as it's writer. Forcing a belief without necessity is enforcing hate.
Exactly. The reason I dislike Starkiller in Force Unleashed is because how silly and overpowered he is, he at least didn't break as much lore (he was trained and so on), but at the same time it messes up the scale of "power" in the universe and the characters to have this guy ragdolling walkers and star destroyers about, and slapping down Vader and even the Emperor, and takes away from the fact that Vader was supposed to be the most powerful next to the Emperor, and that only Luke's "love" for Vader (and vice versa) was the final hope for the galaxy. (Though I did like the "story" of TFU, just take away the OPness of Starkiller and make him lose to Vader at the end Fallen Order style, and it's great imo. Force Unleashed 2 though I thought was awful as it consolidated all the main flaws of TFU 1 and added to them).
Rey isn't SW's first Mary/Gary, but the Sequels sure do break the record in terms of bad writing and inconsistancy.
EccentricM honestly, TFU is a good game. It isn’t canon, because if it was, it would be very stupid. It is just a nice non-canon game that lets you live out a power fantasy where you just throw around enemies and make super cool combos.
@@helpfulapple3125 Oh of course, I get that. But at the time it "was" considered canon and was the offical explanation of how the Rebels originated. George Lucas even had a part in working on it himself. It's only non-canon now because it's pre-Disney EU material.
But I'm all for wild crazy fun and power fantasy games, so long as it remains in its "context".
EccentricM yeah, the game should be strictly Legends
If Ahsoka was the main character of the sequel trilogy, the ratings would have been through the roof. Also get Dave Filoni to direct it
I would have loved a Filoni directed sequel trilogy based on rebuilding the jedi order with the original trilogy characters and the surviving clone wars characters like Ashoka, Rex and the surviving jedi that are now adults which could come out of hiding like cal or Ezra
@@callumrock11lol76 boriinggggggggg kid shows maybe Sith Empire Old republic focu the dark side give something brutal not garbage kid shows with ahsoka tano everywhere with unlimited plot armor f that bullsh**
@@user-yi4zs7vi5p Those “kids shows” are actually pretty good. Rebels especially. Just because it’s animated doesn’t mean it can be flatly ignored.
@@user-yi4zs7vi5p Use English next time please.
@@tobistein6639 But that's the thing, the show switches so many times between made for kids and adults. Which makes the series boring at some points. I like Rebels but it's kinda boring.
Rey : proceeds to be one of the most hated character of the franchise
Vader : Impressive
Ahsoka : proceeds to pass from an hated character to one of the most appreciated
Vader: Most impressive
Thats why ashoka works
We're given an annoying little shit at first, and then build them up
Rey is just
Muh humble beginnings muh already perfect
Luke had a reason, and that was to fight his father, for rey, it was just running around with finn to the falcon and so on so forth
Anakin should be proud of her for being so strong now...
@@RunnJake ahsoka is still an annoying little shit. you try to wipe her off but her pretentious ass keeps hanging on in show after show after show after show after show.
Why I read Vader's line with Vader's voice in my mind?
Ahsoka earned her love. She earned everything she is as a character. Rey did not.
Ahsoka is the DEFINITION of earning the love of fans. Not only in Star Wars but in tv and movies in general
@@rvhw3466 Huuuuge facts.
WAS hated. Like everyone said, she has EARNED her place. I did not like her whatsoever to begin with, now she is one of my all time favorite Star Wars characters. Top 5.
Nailed it
And we had like 24 hours of screen time with Ahsoka and like 6 hours of Rey
Padme doesn’t get enough credit. She’s literally a diplomatic genius, compassionate, independent, strong-willed, and kind
Emma Tillison yeah I think she’s better than Leia as a character she was literally queen at like 14 years old. Also survived on the battle of geonosis where many Jedi died.
I don't really know what you mean by credit. But I've never seen negativity around padme, maybe memes about her and Anakin, but I think she has been respected
Dieguito Eudave I just kinda meant a lot of people shit on the prequels and so they tend to ignore her, esp in the arguments around female characters and Rey and such. She was so cool in clone wars!
@@emmat3691 on that I agree.
She doesn’t get credit bc she was played so hard by palp that people think less of her. I’d say she was pretty fu king choice especially for being poised against the strongest sith in history. Till revan comes back 😂
as a girl who is getting into star wars, i feel ahsoka is the reason i got into star wars. before tcw, i felt i had no one to relate to. and not having a character to relate to is super difficult when you are trying to get into a series. once ahsoka came, i finally felt that me, a 15-yr old girl, had a character to relate to. i felt she was like me. the difference between ahsoka and rey is simple: ahsoka is a character before gender. rey is a gender before a character.
"Ahsoka is character before gender, Rey is gender before character", girl, these words summarised it perfectly 👌🏼...
@@MiguelMedV thank you!!!
Dang. those last words are on point.
YES GIRL! As a fellow female Star Wars fan, I 100% agree with you.
Perfectly captures the problem. I just got into Star Wars for the first time recently at eighteen, and even being a dude, Ahsoka Tano has to be my favorite character in the series. She's basically the exact opposite of Rey in every conceivable way. Dave Filoni both loves the series to death and understands proper writing very well. The Sequel Trilogy was purely designed the play off of the nostalgia for the originals to get people in theaters, with Kathleen Kennedy trying to shove very unsubtle and in-your-face attempts at "being progressive" into the films.
"If you don't like Rey, you must be sexist."
Only a Sith deals in absolutes
I think Kathleen Kennedy is a Sith Lord.
@Cat007 Yes.
I sense a plot to destroy the Star Wars franchise
@@alexfzg9936 and funny enough it also emanates from the supposed savior of the franchise. an apparent benevolent old man.... that's right, filoni is the sinister figure behind the plot. kennedy is merely count dooku in this play.
@@ARandomSpace A Sith... LOOOORD?
We must move quickly if the franchise is to survive!
Whrn early seasons ahsoka is called annoying best remember she’s literally a 14 year old dropped into a warzone
You got literally everyone there 👀
I may be wrong, but wasn't she 12? This was still when canon had the cutoff point for becoming a Padawan at 13. Still puts the childishness into perspective, though.
Cristian Allwood nah she was 14 in TCW movie, and 17 in the series finale
@@Luke-nn4pm I've just looked it up and you are, indeed, correct. I guess they'd already started moving away from the whole maximum age thing by then.
Yeah, that’s what I always think. I’m lenient with any character under the age of 16 because everyone is a little shit until about then.
It’s simple: Ashoka lost everyone and everything she ever cared about. What did Rey sacrifice? What did Rey actually do that wasn’t just handed to her because Disney said so? What is Rey’s story arc? Because the Rey we meet in Force Awakens is pretty much the same Rey we get at the end of Rise of Skywalker only she gets everything she NEVER earned/Deserved
Facts I think ahsoka and obi wans character are the perfect Star Wars characters both lost everything and still remained in the light. Rey did nothing. She didn’t even know what the force was then a few hours later she mind tricks storm troopers like what? Ahsoka is the definition of a GREAT Star Wars character and always will be
Nothing. Everything worked out for Rey regardless of the circumstances she's put in. None of her actions have any serious consequences. Along with the fact that everybody in the sequels just adores her and wants her on their side. In my eyes, the reason Rey is a Mary-sue is not because she doesn't have faults, its that those faults don't have any major repercussions. Ashoka on the other hand, had plenty of them.
Jonathan Poston I agree ahsokas whole character is built around the fact that she learns from her mistakes and builds her own personality as a character while remaining an essential part of the story. The clone wars would not be near the same with out ahsoka
Yeah. Storm over Ryloth teached Ahsoka of consequences in a very harsh way. She not only failed, but many pilots died due to her actions.
Helena Teltscher she undergoes more character development in storm over ryloth and holocron heist then rey does in the whole trilogy
We have a fuckton of strong female Characters that are actually liked by Fans: Ventress, Ahsoka, Padme, Leia, Cara Dune, Bo Katan, Aayla Secura, Shaak Ti etc. I dont even know why people say Starwars has a Problem with strong women.
Don't forget Enfys Nest
@@josecopas Enfys Nest felt a little forced with the voice modulator but its so minor that it wasnt am issue for me. I chalked it up to an Episode 6 reference.
Because those same people have watched only the prequals and can't get over the fact that the 2 main characters are male
@@josecopas I didnt watch Solo
@@leighton6907 If someone only watched the prequels their opinion doesnt matter. In fact, they are a waste of oxygen.
"If a filmmaker cannot create an amazing character in three movies, they shouldn't be making movies." So true.
Very true.
Who would you hate more in star wars: Rose,Holdo,Rey
@@averyniceguy3964 Rey 😄
@@averyniceguy3964 Rey, definitely Rey. She had so much f**king screentime to convince me that she’s a likeable character and failed.
But what about kluad?
Ashoka is basically how Rey should have been handled in the sequels, hell even her being a nobody would have been fine as long as the explanation made sense rather than it being something utterly ridiculous.
Hell Ahsoka was technically a nobody, just one of many many force sensitive children, she's not from a special bloodline or anything.
Rogue Fox she could have been a nobody just not overpowered. If jj toned it down in the force awakens and had Finn save her from Kylo on star killer Base I think it would have made her character more vulnerable and human.
I honestly think way would have been better of a character if she wasnt depicted as a golden child and instead was shown leaning more and more to the dark side
*cough* Mortis and World between Worlds is utterly ridiculous *cough*
:)
It’s not a contradiction, one is just a good character and the other isn’t.
Facts, why complicate things if the answer is obvious in this case
More like one is a Character and the other is someone's mouthpiece.
one is a poorly written character....
it is not just Rey in the sequels that people don't like, they are full of characters that have been criminally under developed.
German Shepherd I think Rey isn’t even a real character. She’s just a plot device. A character has conflict. Rey has no conflict because nobody and nothing can challenge her.
Rey being too powerful after 2 days is dumb. Ahsoka being “too powerful” after nearly 20 years. That kinda makes sense. And we don’t even need to talk about Maul.
It was fine that Rey was surprisingly strong to begin with, you can have a good character arc that has that, you don't have to be a farmer with no talent to start the story. However, either way they need to have an engaging character arc, Rey didn't get one of those, she didn't have an arc at all. Everything she wanted to do she just suddenly could.
@@MrMetFanSC EXACTLY.
Even then, Ahsoka wasn’t even the strongest, Yeah shes powerful but she knew when she was outclassed, She fought Vader whos the strongest and did good, And after all she went through, It makes perfect sense she picked up a few tricks to battle Vader that most jedi’s wont have.
@@MrMetFanSC Added to that, it also has to be properly established if the character is powerful from the start, Rey doesnt show any signs of knowing anything about the force or having any "unexplainable" powers she doesnt understand, aside from the dreams about her past but that is barely even related to the force, no, she literally shows nothing significant regarding the force, yet one minute after kylo enters her mind and she starts realizing what the force is, she can suddenly force persuade a stormtrooper, keep kylo (a highly trained force user) from entering her mind and can even stop a blaster on mid air, if from the start she, I dont know, stopped a falling boulder or something out of pure instinct and said, "I dont understand this powers but Ive always had them, I wish someone could guide me on this" it would be more believable, but she goes from practically zero to all mighty in the span of like, the two days that TFA take place in
@@josepablobonillajimenez6297 With her being a scavenger, they probably could have explained her being naturally powerful with her having exceptional intuition and reflexes. For example, being unreasonably good at picking out the best scavenging locations, reacting to threats before they occur, dodging things she can't possibly see coming, etc. In practice, just a line or two about her scavenging, showing her moving out of the way of falling debris she couldn't see and reacting to sounds before they happen would have been good enough. Perhaps a little subtle, but enough.
Describe Ahsoka's personality: [Ten paragraphs charting her arc from feisty brat to wise, principled iconoclast]
Describe Rey's personality:...
"Crickets"
SJWs: She doesn't need a personality. She just needs to be female. Fuck training and harships! If she can kill a man we don't care! What is this movie about again? You know what who cares? We don't even like this shit.
A bitch
her personality is just that she’s never even been touched in battle. not a scratch.
And the real bitch of it is that she STILL has room to grow. Ahsoka hasn't let go of her pain or her past in Anakin's betrayal or any of the business around Barris and the Council. That's why, as skilled as she is, she can't be a Jedi. She is still extremely isolated from anything approaching relationships in her latest appearances. Hopefully, that is something she figures out in the upcoming series.
Finn was the biggest letdown for me. John Boyega is a phenomenal actor, and I feel bad for how hard he got shafted throughout this trilogy. An ex storm trooper who has to overcome his fears of the First Order and hone his force sensitive abilities is a fantastic idea for a main character, something we've never seen before. His merchandise sold really well when the Force Awakens first came out, kids loved him. Then they pulled the old switcheroo and made him a comic relief goon who slowly faded into the background. I cringe at the wasted potential of that protagonist
And why didnt they let him use his own accent? That alone would have made him way more exciting in my eyes.
@@Cryogenius333 Star Wars has to appeal to American audiences more than anyone.They probably thought two Brits taking up the majority of the screentime would turn off audiences. Yeah, superficial stuff like this runs Hollywood.
@@Ray03595 ruins* Hollywood more like. Sad thing is I believe you.
4 though, wouldnt it? If you include the "other" british stormtrooper runaway, and Gwendolyn(Phasma)
Tarkin and half of the other imperial officers dont count? Jin Erso?
That smell stinkawith.
I know right?!
He’s also the token black guy of this trilogy so he would have filled the diversity angle.
I think another female character that is liked for being interesting is Ventress. She is not a "good" character, but still interesting, and for sure a very capable character as well.
Edit: wow, I don't think I ever had that many likes. Thanks everyone :)
she is darkside Ahsoka on steroids
@@monishvj5172 And as such an warning about what Ahsoka could have become had she been led down a dark path.
I like ventress a lot, very fun villainous (sorta) character
I like to think she kind of turned out good. She became more rogue and kind of switched between both sides depending on what benefited her lol but by the end of S7 she did some good deeds. She was definitely a good/cool female character no matter which side she was on tbh
I agree! Ventress is really cool--what she becomes over the series is great. Just finished a rewatch of TCW S4, and looking forward to more of her development.
I watched the whole Star Wars movie franchise with my dad, and while we were watching the first lightsaber dual between Rey and Kylo Ren in Force Awakens my dad said “so now she can fight when she can’t even aim a gun?” If my dad who’s never seen the Star Wars movies before can point out that Rey isn’t a very thought through character, why can’t the writers and directors see that in their own makings? Disrespectful.
The can’t get past their own ego and agenda pushing.
A Rey defendant, somewhere out in the galaxy: "Ahsoka had so much time to be fleshed out, it's not fair to Rey who only had 3 movies!"
Obi-wan, dying before the end of the first movie, but is still iconic: "Hello there."
Yeah, Luke also had 3 movies to ne fleshed out, and yet he's one of the most beloved characters, not just in Star Wars, but in fiction in general.
The argument is just so stupid... What did she need 9 movies to do get fleshed out?
Maul who didn't even have more than 5 dialogues in the first prequels before "the clone wars": *unfortunately for you, history will not see it that way*
@@thesenate5913 I sense a presence a presence I haven’t felt since
Master!!!
Ah, the Mandalorian: the true sequel series.
Finally a good film related to Star Wars in a while
And my favorite, in my opinion the best Star Wars series/movie ever made (just my opinion)
I put it on par with the OT and the Clone Wars series. It has got me excited to watch Star Wars again and with the mentioning of Thrawn in Episode 5, I’m even more excited to see what is to come.
@@MrDSimba I know!!
I'm halfway through S1 and I'm really enjoying it. Sadly the fact that Ahsoka was in S2 was spoiled for me through a thumbnail; I had steered clear of any and every Mandalorian spoiler until that point.
Ahsoka at the beginning frankly was a little annoying but she EARNED her place, she worked for it and won her place. She went from the character I disliked the most to the one that when she gets slightly injured I get scared.
eman297 361 never was annoying to me cause I was a little kid watching this back in 2009-present and I grew up with this character and matured along with her; same thing with clementine from TWD. Same story, I grew up with this character and developed as they did. Both female, I’m a republican country boy and I love these characters sm that I give zero fucks if they are female. In fact I never give a fuck what u are in real life or in stories 🤷🏻♂️ but I completely hate Rey. Go ahead call me a misogynist... just know you are stupid asf
@@nopeandnope5195 Why is he 'stupid asf'? You both fundamentally agree on the SAME thing.
Saint of Killers I wasn’t saying he was I was saying that any one that disagrees with me one this one particular issue is I was making a point while agreeing with the guy that made the comment
@@nopeandnope5195 Oh, alright then. My bad.
She didn't earn shit.
I remember sitting in the theatre for tlj and hearing a little girl say "where's Ahsoka?"
Even tlj’s main demographic can understand Rae isn’t as good as Ashoka
She... is the chosen one
Even a little girl's expectations was subverted.
The Force is with this girl
That little girl deserved to see Ahsoka more than anybody.
Ahsoka's power is well-earned. She was trained at the temple from an early age, then trained as the apprentice of Anakin, the most powerful Jedi at the time (or maybe ever), and she spent most of her time constantly fighting a war. By season 7, it's not at all surprising how powerful she is. We just spent 6 seasons watching her grow.
5 seasons, s6 had no ahsoka due to her leaving the order
And she’s still alive five years after the fall of the Empire so she had about three decades to increase her power.
Anakin wasn't close to the most powerful Jedi ever. He merely had that potential. Mace and Yoda outclassed him at the time. He was a fraction of his power and thus couldn't convey much of what he later learned to her because he simply didn't know it.
We don’t want a female that’s a Jedi, we want a Jedi that’s a female. The stars wars part should come first
Preach!
Periodt
Oh, I am SO using that!
Absolutely
Ahsoka: Trained her whole childhood as a youngling, was Anakin Skywalker's Padawan, and experienced in her 3 years in the war what most Jedi didn't experience in their lifetime. (until Order 66, perhaps.) Ultimately failed in the end, and her entire legion died attempting to kill her.
Rey: No training in the movies, and has no actual trials or moments of hardship. Saved the day and won every battle she ever took place in. Her only actual flaws are "being too kind" and "seeing the good in people."
She did fuck up a bit in TROS.
@@achaudhari101 A bit. But really, without any consequence and not because shes a character with actual flaws
2nd Airborne Productions wouldn’t you consider her living on a desert planet fending for herself, hardship? Not a slight, just a genuine question. Surviving on your own IRL without anyone to support you is definitely hardship. Unlike let’s say, Luke who had a relatively easy life on a moisture farm.
@@craigydh In concept I would consider it a hardship but we're never shown how awful she has it on Jakku. She seems discontent in her introduction but not depressed or tired. She's just okay. And Rey wants to stay on Jakku, unlike Luke, who's motivations to leave Tatooine were clear and logical. So in a way, I think your comment is more of a detriment to her character than anything.
@@craigydh I would say that if she had to scavange and fend for herself all those years, how did she become the most positive, optimistic, and selfless person in the galaxy when that lifestyle rewards the exact opposite type of people? She doesn't seem to have any of the negative effects of living in isolation in a terrible environment. If she lived like that and turned out like this, it couldn't have been as stressful or hard as battling a sith lord that killed your Master in front of you or going through the padawan trials.
I'll sum it up: "Talent is nothing without training." -- Real Luke Skywalker
Yes its so true
Anakin is the chosen one with an insane amount of midichlorian count but he is only able to focus it in a race. And it also shows why Rey being a prodigy makes 0 sense and shows she is a mary sue
Amen.
@@skull1161 1 year old comment, but I'll replay anyway. I would say it's less about only being able to focus it in a race, and more that he can only use the Force passively. He benefits from the enhanced reflexes and intuition that come from Force sensitivity (which he only really makes use of while piloting) but he can't make active use of the Force to enhance his body abilities or use Force powers. Still, it's enough that Anakin has obvious potential to grow. Rey, meanwhile, doesn't appear to have any Force potential, and yet she just can do the Force when it suits her needs. And then there's Luke, who took an entire movie to do what Anakin did naturally.
The most important thing about Ahsoka's early problems is that they were clearly intentional. Filoni wanted her to start out as as a bratty inexperienced child who had her eyes forced open. Through constant training and war she became a warrior and a leader. Through betrayal and loss she gained a sense of compassion no Jedi could match. And the most important part is that she *earned* it.
The only thing the Sequel Trilogy succeeded in doing for me was making me appreciate the Prequel Trilogy a whole lot more.
The prequels are like fine wine. They get better the more they age.
Yes, I did steal this from another comment
amen brother
George Lucas: All according to plan.
Clones WARS
@Howard Guiness Darth Jar Jar: My Plan has begun to bear fruit.
“We need strong females in Star Wars”
Me: LEIA PADME AHSOKA VENTRESS like come on they’re so underrated
Emma Tillison Hell even Satine, Satine’s sister Lady Botan or something, Ayla Secura, Adi Galia, Sabine Wren, the little Twi’lek from that Waxer and Boil episode, Aurra Sing, Padme’s god damn servant, and even fucking Jocasta Nu has some awesome stuff in the comics
Emma Tillison Disney: *kills off all but one of them*
Nope, we don’t know who you’re talking about.
Jack Harding YES Satine and her sister omg! That little Twilek was so underrated!
Barriss offee
All of them even Adi Gallia Luminara Shaak Ti Aayla all of the irreverent characters have better stories than Rey
Ashoka trained under the “chosen one” for 4 years when Rey went into a lost and found got a lightsaber and then became god himself
Take away quotes around chosen one bc it is truley Anakin and nobody else
I think Ashoka was supposed to be annoying in the earlier seasons and her maturing was part of her ark.
Yeah, filoni has said that he purposefully made her annoying so that her arc could be extremely satisfying for the viewers
She didn´t seem annyoing to me. She acted like a teenager would act. Children and teens who act like mature adults are more annyoing characters to me because it isn´t realistic. It screams "Bad writing!"
@@Mysikrysa Like honestly, she wasn't even that annoying to me either.
@@Mysikrysa I wasn't annoyed by Ahsoka or Ezra because I could see what the writers were doing with them. They're teenagers. They're supposed to be immature.
Yes.
You know Disney ruined Star Wars when Luke’s death wasn’t even sad
Because it was a stupid way to kill Luke
It was a mercy killing.
I forgot he died
Rejoice for those who become one with the force.
Chosen One He died because he is a force ghost so stop making it more complicated than it is.
I mean, Ashoka was trained by Anakin Skywalker. Rey hung out with “Luke” for 2 hours
THIS EXACTLY! She was schooled as a youngling by Master Yoda himself. Then trained on the FRONT LINES of a war by one of the most dynamic Jedi of all time. Then she managed to survive order 66 and the Jedi purge that followed. She was a key contributor to the early days of the rebellion. Ahsoka earned everything she had, and we were able to watch her grow over the years.
Facks.
That wasn't luke on the island it was a new character named Jake.
Andrew Hoop more like a deranged homeless man who heard of the tale of Luke Skywalker. Luke Skywalker is probs dead or missing lol and The Hobo therefore calls himself luke
Frizen she was hunted by them when she was accused of bombing the temple
Jyn Erso was more developed and likeable character in one movie than Rey was in three
Ahsoka was better in the Clone Wars movie than Rey in the sequels.
She's okay, but she doesn't have a lot weight to carry compared other characters who happened to be female.
Ashoka made mistakes and got punished for them. This led to character development. Rey got bailed out of almost all of the mistakes she made. She’s not a good character.
Rey is a good character
@@songoku7530 I hope you're talking about the fact that Rey is a part of the good side in the sequal trilogy and not that she is a character that has good writing
Exactly. There are so many scenes. Starting the fight with Kylo Ren in Ep VII and the refusal to join Kylo Ren in Episode 8....even when she fights Kylo Ren on her own in Episode IX, or the death of Chewbacca that was not real--- nothing mattered. She seems to make no mistakes and is always stronger than her opponents even though they trained a lot longer than her. The real Kylo Ren would have beaten her and forced her to join him. Make Finn a Jedi and then you have a real movie...
@@steffighter144 agreed. I think the sequels would have been so much more interesting if Rey joined Kylo in Episode 8 and then Finn was a Jedi who had to defeat them both with Luke and maybe Ashoka. Including Ashoka might be pushing it though
@@RufflesOnCoke I was talking about both
Ahsoka: *raised by jedi order, apprentice to one of the most powerful jedi ever, leaves jedi order but still believes in being a peacekeeper
Rey: LiGhTsAbER gO wHoOsH
Are there people out there that actually think rey is a better character then ahsoka? I can’t imagine anyone thinking that lmaoooooo
@@rvhw3466 That's cuz you aren't an idiot.
LordHollow yay
Star Wars fans: NO, you can't just pick up a lightsaber and hold your own against a sith
Rey: HAHAHA Lightsaber go BRRRRRRRR
Don't forget Finn who got his ass kicked in a sword fight against a stormtrooper was holding his own against Kylo.
It's simple: one has character development or the other does not.
Rey had character development
Oh wait i was talking about jar jar
@@akamundi864 I would write this off as edgy, but you're not wrong.
@@TheCh33ks I would write rey off of star wars
@@akamundi864 screw that we need another cannon wipe
You mean a canon wipe or just send everyone from this trilogy in a cannon to another galaxy
Ahsoka - written well in well written story
Rey - written poorly in poorly written story
Where does the word "female" come in to the equation?
I haven't heard anyone make this point yet. Not a single person, not one.
Just as I haven't heard a single person truly be sexist in their critique of Rey.
I think what's going on is obvious..
That’s exactly what I was thinking. I’ve never seen anyone bring up the point that their women as the answer to why they don’t like one of those characters
I'm of the opinion that Rey is infact the perfect example of an imperfect character.
She's too perfect and she felt like a fanfic rather than a person.
While Ashoka got many years worth of story arc, she still felt like an actual person, like i could be in some cantina and just have a casual chat.
The fact Ashoka felt like an imperfect person and not just a character makes her a perfect character.
Rey is a terrible role model for young girls, she's perfect and does no wrong. How can relate and look up to someone who doesn't learn or grow be an inspiration.
TYGL20 in one of the post-secondary classes I took, a female classmate stated the same criticism of Rey as you did.
Ask the fans of thise terrible examples of YA novels, Rey fits perfectly with those.
Exactly Rey is not female or human she is embodiment of perfection.
She isn’t perfect and does wrong though. You could apply your logic to Luke as well with the way you’re stretching it
What do you mean luke got destroyed by his father 😂 he trained so much and in the end his father beat him, rey had no training, never held a lightsaber, beats kylo Ren who is trained by luke and snoke
My favorite dialog in all of Star Wars.
Darth Vader: Anakin Skywalker was weak. I destroyed him.
Ahsoka Tano: Then I will avenge his death.
Darth Vader: Revenge is not the Jedi Way.
Ahsoka Tano: I am no Jedi.
Ahsoka can use anger and other negative emotions without falling to the dark side.
I hope they can continue her neutral force persona well in The Mandalorian.
If I'm not mistaken, that's a grey Jedi knight, although Ashoka won't name herself like this. I also believe Obiwan's master was something along these lines too
Honestly I see Ahsoka's appearance in the mandalorian being along the lines of "I'm too old for this shit" and "not my job" on seeing the child.
@@sparking023 grey jedis are usually weak but not ahsoka
@@joshhart5259 grey jedi's are the balence of "good" and "evil" they have no side they pick no side and they are not weak they are not the strongest eather
Kind of like Windu who uses the dark side in combat, except he's obviously a bit of a dick
Ahsoka is my favorite character in star wars. she’s literally the pure embodiment of the light, has the coolest fighting style in star wars, and took years and years to develop and grow with the audience.
Ahsoka is powerful because she absorbed the "Daughters" life force.
Yeah, that's definitely something worth exploring. Hopefully, her show will do exactly that.
@@DiZtheJedi Seeing how Ahsoka has been in Rebels, S7, Mando, etc, it only gave her a second (and later third, thanks to Ezra) chance. It affected nothing else.
Yes, but you're discrediting the years of training and work she's put in. Ahsoka's strong af on her own not just because she absorbed, essentially, a god's life force.
She also trained for years. Stop trying to discredit her when she actually had to work for her power while Rey did jack.
Oh my God. I forgot about the Mortis arc! Nice!
Ahsoka was actually trained, and by ANAKIN SKYWALKER no less. Why are people accusing Ahsoka of being OP now? She LOST her fight against Maul, only 1-upping him when he let his guard down. She FAILED to stop his shuttle escaping. She suffered and struggled, and was being pushed to her absolute limits. It was perfectly fine for her.
Maul too, even stating the dark side is as strong as its ever been, was unleashing the complete extent of his abilities in his most desperate hour.
cAnon let’s not forget Ashoka almost got killed more than once during the Mandalore arc too. She’s not portrayed as invincible.... Rey just kinda shows up all powerful.
TBF she lets mauls ship go to save Rex, she could have most likely held onto it but she made a choice
Jack Ozbloke she never would’ve been able to hold it long enough anyways. That was clear. She held him midair, but she was making little to no progress.
@cAnon
EXACTLY!
On top of this, Maul was at his most furious! He had been beaten by a the equivalent of a child to him, had lost his weapon, and been captured and humiliated. This SHOULD be his most powerful scene and it was glorious.
For Ahsoka, people forget she got warned by Rex so she could defend herself. Him telling the other clones not to shoot saved her so she wasn’t shot in the back (poor Aayla).
Then her dual lightsabers allowed her to deflect enough blaster bolts to barely escape.
Finally, she has already been attacked by clones before (twice actually), so you could even say she has experience with that.
Also, Maul has always underestimated his opponents, see his missing lower half.
Filoni said Maul was better, but, as you said, let his guard down and paid for it.
You can even see her being VISIBLY EXHAUSTED over the course of the finale, she is fighting for her life, and the adrenaline is kicking in.
This lady mastered a lightsaber hours after picking one up for the first time
Edit¹: Many of you are complaining that I used "mastered". Fair argument. Does "mastered it enough to stand a chance against a Sith who trained in the ways of the force and lightsaber by two of the most powerful wielders of all time (Luke & Snoke)" make you feel better?
Edit²: I'm getting complaints about using "Sith" now. I'm sure seeing the Sith rule of two in place here with Kylo and Snoke... who knows though? Maybe I miss counted! His title is irrelevant to his training and abilities being much greater than Rey's though.
Nulling some common arguments:
"She used a staff her entire life": (If the point that a staff isn't a lightsaber isn't enough for you!) This development was never shown. Assumptions aren't good to make. A metal staff in which she used both sides can't be compared to a single-bladed lightsaber. This is like saying Maul mastered every lightsaber form just because he used a double blade. She also never fought others armed with similar weapons, only unarmed opponents. (She barely even understands how to shoot a blaster! Aiming and pulling a trigger should be easier than foreseeing your opponent's moves and blocking with a lightsaber!)
"Kylo Ren was weakened": Rey wasn't? Kylo also had MUCH more training and was taught in the ways of the force by one of the most powerful force beings to ever live. Rey too also able to overcome his force grab and force pull her lightsaber passed him... Luke wasn't even able to do that... He struggled quite a bit with that Wampa! As someone else also mentioned in a reply, the strength of a dark side user feeds on pain!
I'd hardly call it mastered. It was pretty bad form.
@@anonymousname5860 She stood her ground against a Sith.
Rey already had some training with a weapon because of her scavenging days.
@@ahsokatano5498
Mace Windu: *Have fifty to sixty years of training and barely manage to defeat Sidious.*
Rey: *Beats him with two lightsabers.*
@@TheLiamster Bo Staffs are different from normal swords
SPOILER ALERT FOR THE MANDOLORIAN
I’m so glad we finally got to see Ashoka in live action in season 2!!!
I just binged Mandalorian last night, and Ahsoka was awesome. My only gripe is her fight choreography; the movement felt stilted and robotic. Hopefully for her live action show the fight choreography will improve.
"Star wars fans hate female characters"
*Kreia has joined the server*
Yup, i do not think anybody looked at Kreia and saw a female, they saw a great character.
Kreia is betrayed by gender..... overcomes the genderdiscussion
And her unique outlook on the force just screams good writing.
I'd cite Filoni here: Maul IS stronger than Ashoka but he is always too confident.
Additionally: Maul was a sith apprentice. With a rule of two you don't just take anyone. Ashoka was in constant war for a couple of years that will train you. Also this scene was moCapped, thus real humans did most of the moves, it is just sped up.
In conclusion their power level was adequate/realistic and worthy of a Finale.
I think Ahsoka became stronger after she quit the jedi order because Force didn’t like the jedi in that period of time). Ahsoka earned her connection with the force from her actions and decisions, that makes her more powerful then before.
I would agree, but after seeing ahsoka stop maul's ship cold when it was fully accelerating short of hyperspeeding into the planet... I don't think the margin is as big as maul stans would like to admit. it's one of the reasons their fight is the best in star wars from my perspective. (though maul is in my second favourite fight, when he and savage get trashed by sideous...)
It's not an accident that maul loses THREE different fights after gaining the total upper hand (the high ground). (obi-wan, ahsoka, and kanan-who was far less powerful than both ahsoka and maul-) dk about rebels era though. i think ahsoka caught up power-wise in a big way. maul FLED when he felt vader show up. and I kinda got the feeling ahsoka would have won if they fought for real right then.
ahsoka didn't just duel vader fearlessly on level terms for most of that fight (except getting thrown from the ledge...that was awk) ...she SACRIFICED a decapitating hit to INSTEAD, confirm anakin's identity instead. and that's not even getting into 'ahsoka the white' post-rtj. she'd wreck maul. you really get the sense that while ahsoka only got more powerful, maul declined after the clone wars.
Two things one in Ahsoka and Maul’s fight Dave Filoni said that Maul was fighting as if her fighting someone of Sidious’ caliber. And I don’t think he held back until the end to give Ahsoka that one last chance. Not saying Ahsoka was the better duelist but it’s only fair to point out that maul was giving his all. Number 2 why Ahsoka was so strong in the force is most likely from her connection to the Daughter. So it makes sense why she is much stronger in the force during the second half of the clone wars. That’s all.😁
Yeah how come people say she was “too powerful”? She was never stronger than Maul, arguably, even in Rebels when they fought, though he underestimates almost all his opponents, hence she got her win. And regarding her surviving Order 66 and leading the Seige, she was a Jedi trained for war (lol I know she said they were trained to be keepers of peace not for war)
Jar Jar Binks is a more well written Character than Rey.
@99pex
Damn...you’re right too
And thats saying a lot
Not even a fair comparison, given that jar jar did exactly what he wanted to do.
Kids liked him, and that was all he was meant to do.
Rey was meant to be a strong female character who was supposed to attract girls and young women, and basically be the new luke skywalker yet she failed to accomplish this.
Jar Jar still help his friend. Rose what have done? Wait a minute, who i said?
@@panos617r/ihadastroke
Ashoka was trained since infancy to use the force, honed through three years of the most devastating war of the millennia and decades of fighting and evading the empire.
Ray literally learned it on the fly over the course of months and mastered force powers that Jedi masters couldn’t master in decades
And she mastered how to use the force without a teacher or mentor... That's like becoming an ace pilot like Maverick in Top Gun without an instructor or a manual...
Dude by rebels, Ashoka was able to take on Vader, on almost equal grounding. (She lost but still), so ofcourse, she could fight maul , we are also forgetting that Ashoka uses white lightsabers in rebels, you know, meaning she healed 2 bleeding(red) kyber Krystals,so that means she was pretty strong by the time of rebels. And I don't think she got too much action after the clone wars ended, so I would say the power scaling fits
I am a girl and I absolutely dislike Rey. I hate that they are saying that guys are sexist because they don't like Rey, what would that make me? A sexist of my own gender? Wow just wow. I love Ahsoka because she is everything Rey was supposed to be and better. The big part of everyone hating Rey is because she didn't work for ANY of her powers and had never tapped into the force, some people will try to explain this saying that because she is Palpatine's granddaughter that she naturally is powerful- maybe but, even Palpatine TRAINED for that power under Darth pleguious(Plegues? I dunno-) and Rey had never even used a lightsaber yet she almost killed a Sith who had years of training. Her example isn't a good one for girls or kids in general because she is right off the bat strong showing kids that "Oh, you don't have to change and adapt to gain something you want. " and to people who think like that will end up getting beaten around by life. The topic is a bit controversial but I had to bring it up, yes you don't have to change for others but that doesn't mean that you won't have to work or change at all. People have gotten so selfish over the years without even really knowing it but it's no ones fault for it. But back to the topic; everything you want comes at a price, this one is supposed to be learning how to not give up and persist on you're goal, not letting yourself think otherwise and adapting to whatever circumstances life throws at you. At least that was what Luke and Ahsoka were and technically are. Rey is just too perfect and powerful with no reason other than being an "example" for girls but they can't even manage that. I'll say this and I know I'll probably get some angry replies but, feminist are living in the past- holding on to the thought that ALL men are bad.(I know not ALL feminist hate men.) Yes, there is bad men but there also is bad women out there not just men. It's the new age nobody judges you for your gender anymore, at least not the whole population. And this is the same problem the LGTBQ community has, they keep wanting to grasp on to a example and put everyone down whom don't agree with them. Again this isn't really there fault because for so many years in the past women and gay people were demonized and now this is the outcome of that. The LGTBQ community isn't is rash as the feminist(at least as of lately-) but they get so much hate because they are so used to being put down by other people and they just want a popular figure to look up to and show them what's up.
Rey is a outcome of feminist wanting a character to empower younger audiences but they harp so much on the point that she is a strong female that they forgot to giver her an actual story, personality, a point- she has no developmental arc. If Rey would've just had been less perfect and powerful at the very start to her damn story, I bet you 100 dollars this wouldn't have happened. That's why we love Ahsoka because at the start she was a bratty, sassy and naive girl who wasn't all that strong but as she grew up she began to get more and more mature and with thus more powerful. For the fans who watched Clone wars when it came out they felt like they were growing up with Ahsoka and for people like me who saw Clone wars later on it was satisfying seeing this character who was hated and then end up being loved by everyone at the end and with good reason.
And another thing is that everyone else around Rey who respectively are good at certain things because they had years of practicing, training and such- but then the strong woman comes in and is great at everything although had never done anything or had experience. For gods sakes, she apparently knows more about the Han Solos ship than Han himself with the only context being that she was a scavenger for ship parts although having no knowledge out of that about the ship itself.
But, anyway. I'll stop ranting because I'll end up writing a wall about why Rey is a horrible character and example.
hOlY mOly- How did I get 219 likes?-
Women reinforce patriarchy and sexism just as much as men do. Women and men are both a byproduct of sexism and patriarchy as well as perpetuate them. Sexism and patriarchy are systems and social relationships, not moral or immoral choices made by individuals.
The first paragraph would of done
Yeah, im kind of struggling to think about when anyone around Rey was actually useful in RoS. C-3PO was more useful than Finn was for two entire movies. What a joke.
@Indy Rex I very much appreciate this comment! Thank you for taking the time to write this, I also took the time to read it lol. I could just as easily rant about Rey and Ahsoka, and I have because I feel passionately about it but my family always chastises me when I do and they say I am being "cynical, judgemental, and only looking for the negatives" well OH PHOOEY I disagree with that because what I am doing is pointing out the FACTS and elements of the story that failed. It is strictly from a film-making standpoint that I rant and am angry because there is just so much Actually wrong with it.
As a girl too, I completely agree with everything you have said. I hate being told I am too cynical about the movie. It's not seeking anything out, it is pointing out the flaws which are so obviously there and disappointing. So, in conclusion my ranty friend, you have typed out the words that I would say if people would just listen to it.
Roaring Lions Ay! I'm happy that you agree. I've gotten told many times when I bring this topic up that I'm not a real Star Wars fan, and I really want to go through the screen and slap them. The new trilogy fans are so toxic especially because they include the reylo fans who threatened the directors and such. It frustrates me how people say that Rey is strong and nobody gets it. And I once got told by someone that I am just saying i am a girl so I can freely hate on Rey. Jesus christ do they need 'em. Anyways I am glad that I have another ranty friend who is trying to show everyone why Rey isn't a good character, although it won't work it's a good way to vent out your thoughts lmao
One has character development and heart and make mistakes. And the other is one character who has little to no development, doesn't have heart, and barely make mistakes. Though, it ain't the Daisy's fault. I'm not blaming her for the script and character.
Another point is that Ashoka had some advantage. I mean, she wasn't liked by many at first, but she had 7 seasons to grow on people. Rey on the other hand did not. Granted, that is no excuse, but it certainly is a smaller window to sell a character.
@@TK-867 Like Thor had said, it doesn't matter if she has over a few seasons. Rey had three movies, and everyone liked Luke, Han, Leia, Chewbacca, and others after the first movie which was Star Wars at the time. Rey had no development & just was thrown in there to make cash.
RyanSquad Rey does fail plenty of times in the sequels, but it is not played off as a big thing, often times being glanced over. But make no mistake she does fail. *Just not as much as other characters.*
TK 867 Luke’s character was nothing, then was built up(while failing a few times, might I add) into a great character in just 3 movies too. That being said, I don’t see how they could’ve butchered it as badly as they did.
@@Fi_Sci_ Let's be honest here:
1) Rey defeats Kylo Ren, it should have been a tie of an unsure future.
2) Rey defeats Luke Skywalker. You're telling me that Luke who had much training, fought Darth Vader, and barely manage to stood his ground against Sidious, and took an academy, gotten beaten by a scavenger girl?!
3) Rey defeats Emperor Palpatine. Mace Windu had a struggle of defeating him. Even Grandmaster Yoda had a problem of defeating him! And this girl without any training barely manage to defeat him?!
I'm sorry but that is just absolute BS. The Sequels creators just wanted money and ruin a perfectly good ending. If there's one thing I'll say nice about the Sequels, is that they opened people's eyes about the Prequels and allowed them to see that they are not that bad as they misjudged them to be.
You can see Ashoka evolve during the clone wars. Rey is Instant Op.
I was a lil boy when Ahsoka made her debute. For the longest time, I didn't really connect with the characters other than the OG group and Obi-Wan in the Prequel. But, when Ahsoka first appear, I immediately saw a future inspiration and idol for me. Glad to have grown up with her as she has continued to be in inspiration of how to make a wonderful character and arc in stories.
When Rey made her debut, I was interested. Thinking how she could've been Luke's daughter who he decided to hid away because of Thrawn but Rey was taken from her adoptive parents, that Luke had chosed for them to care till time came for him, on Jakku, being left alone to defend, leaving her to maybe be on a tight line of dark and light. But instead, what we got was Rey who became a doll of random stories that "sticks" for directors and not following a cohesive progression like Luke. I honestly had hope for Rey as she is immediately a cool character by personality, design (love her Force Awaken hair and Last Jedi cloths and her switch yellow lightsaber) and her wondering like ways but the story dragged her down hard. Still, i applaud Daisy Ridley with what she was working with as she is a great actress like the others (Adam Driver, John Boyega etc.) I hope the best for her, and others, future endeavors and looks to follow their careers.
People who argument against ahsoka: she had 7 seasons of a television show and Rey only 3 films
Me: Maul was brought back in cw because he was a fan favorite after ONE film
I mean, maul was only a fan favourite because he looked cool and did the flippy things. TCW helped develop his character. But it’s much easier to develop a 1 movie side character at a later date than it is THE MAIN CHARACTER OF A TRILOGY
Ahsoka is best girl. She worked so hard. Earned every battle scar and victory. A real character journey.
Maul was fan favorite after couple scenes and almost no dialogue.
And Din Djarin, for me, was already a better character than Rey after 1 episode of 35 minutes while he barely spoke and we never saw his face...
@@jensentaylor1384 he's a acrobat
IT is justs Rey didnt face any challenges. She is someone who you cannot ever really relate to. Ahsoka was focused and maul is a sith lord....both trained dramatically and while it might seem little more over the top...it still felt earned.
I think Ashoka was a bit op and so was maul but we miss a lot of time between mauls capture and Ashoka with the mandos we don’t know what mother tousen did to maul and how katan trained her to join their ranks
BAMA BOI Truth is you just make excuses for what you like and not for what you don’t
BAMA BOI do you understand that maul is a *sith lord* and Ahsoka is the former padawan of *the* chosen one..
I think they were both too OP in the last two episodes but I also don't think it really took that much away from the episode. The only it actually bothered me was when maul took down the whole fucking hyperdrive on his own but whatever it's a finale and they treated it as such.
BAMA BOI Maul was a lot weaker than I’d ever expect plus his overconfidence doesn’t help but I definitely can understand people thinking Ashoka is OP for sure
Both of these characters had faults and made mistakes, the difference between the two is Ahsoka learned from her mistakes which led her to becoming a better Force user and focused on becoming better than her enemies while Rey kept the same attitude and mindset throughout the trilogy, was overconfident, and was willing to join the Dark Side just for answers to her past.
To put it another way, Ahsoka made mistakes and learned from them, while Rey made mistakes and was rewarded for them.
People who haven’t seen clone wars “Wait Maul died?!”
Rey is a walking plot device
Ahsoka is a character
‘nuff said
Poor Rey they wasted her potential. And Finn's character back story and like lots of stuff. Makes me miss Mara Jade.
@@LaurenLovesToSing7598 mara, jaina, Jacen, anakin and ben........
@@segmentedsanctum5273 Yes classic legends people sounded fun in star wars encyclopedia
@@segmentedsanctum5273 luke wife :(
@@LaurenLovesToSing7598 I'm confused now have you read young jedi knights or anything like that
I’ll cite Filoni’s wise warning to Ashely:
“They are gonna hate you”
Filoni knew she’d be disliked, but also knew where he wanted her story to go. He allowed her to fail, be weak in many ways, to only eventually mature after some pretty heavy lessons including Mandalore corruption, getting hundreds of clones killed, and plenty of speaking out of term and hot-headed opinions that resulted in chiding.
However, this all was a part of her journey. She grew into a very mature, yet young, padawan that would ultimately be betrayed by her own Home in the Jedi and then again by the clones.
Of course, she is now beloved by so many fans and rightfully so. Thankfully for her, she has destroyed the “you just hate women” argument and is a definitive standard for other Star Wars content and shows in general to try to reach.
Dave filoni has big brain confirmed
I think it is also interesting as the fans relationship to Ahsoka basically made a similar evolution as Anakin's. At first he didn't want her and found her a bit annoying. But five seasons in her leaving was one of the most emotional scenes in the show for both the fans and Anakin.
Prosthetic Quilt that’s definitely one thing I’ll admit, while I’m more of a fan of the 2d clone wars micro series before episode 3 came out, Ahsoka definitely grew on me as a character and to see her progression from newbie to ace is actually pretty awesome.
While I agree and disagree with many things you wrote, I am not articulate enough to explain why without being bratty about it. So please watch this video, it sums up what my problem is with Ahsoka: ua-cam.com/video/3l30ujjFDlw/v-deo.html
@@peepeepoopoopeepeepoopoo7816 Dave flioni has big pepe, pewds approves
I grow up watching star wars movies from first - third with Anakin as he move toward the dark side. And well when the show came out and Ahsoka was introduced its was like a breath of fresh air. Seeing a side of Anakin that make him more interesting in him learning how to teach a young one the skills need to fight in a large war and how to handle many different things emotionally. I did enjoy seeing how much Ahsoka grow under Anakin and of course those around him. Like Rex being a Clone and being in charge and sharing his experience with Ahsoka. In the end that want saved both they lifes. And well made Ahsoka one of my favorite. She embody the soul of the force and the light side. With her heart being how she wants to help people. I love seeing Ahsoka in star wars a much as they have her.
i find it plausable that anakin had a padawan, the clone wars spanned like 3 years and we only see the begining and end of it in the movies, that leaves plenty of time to train a padawan
Me, a woman: "Rey was a flat and bleak character and her powers made no sense. Her backstory with her connection to the emperor came out of nowhere, failed to explain her powers and should've been hinted at in the earlier movies. It wasn't a successful plot twist at all."
The internet: "YOU'RE JUST A MISOGYNIST WHO HATES HER BECAUSE SHE'S A WOMAN!"
Not the internet, the Disney shills on media who were paid to silence all criticism by insulting the fanbase.
He also said the clone wars was a “little watched tv show” smh
To me, the twist of "being the Emperor's granddaughter" was an attempt to overshadow Vader being Luke's father. In a way it did succeed but *NOT* in the way they were hoping for...
Even Luke being Vader’s son was foreshadowed since Vader means father in Dutch
About the hint in TFA and TLJ Rey has been showing anger when using her lightsaber so it was kind of a hint that she was a sith
Ashoka trained as a Jedi her whole life and fought in countless battles throughout the Clone Wars: she actually earned it. Rey who didn't even know about the force, suddenly becomes super powerful in a few days. Yeah, there is really no comparison between the two. Ashoka is a character who actually has a personality and character development. Rey has no character development or personality beyond "wHo ArE mUh pArEnTs" and is a cold, stale cardboard cutout imitation of Luke Skywalker.
“Didn’t even know about the force.” Yes she did. Luke was publicly training new Jedi for half her life. This isn’t he OT where Jedi have been extinct for decades. People know about them and the force. “Becomes super powerful in a few days” no she doesn’t. Like, at all. She doesn’t become “super powerful” ever. As for personality, she’s really stubborn and impulsive, but also hopeful, compassionate, and smart. As far as character arcs go, at first, she’s a scavenger who wants to be something more in the galaxy, but is held back by the hope that her parents will come back for her. Even when she discovers that she’s force sensitive and leaves Jakku with the Resistence on an important mission, her hope for her parents to come for her is still holding her back. It isn’t until she starts to connect with Kylo that she accepts that they aren’t coming back and commits herself fully to becoming a Jedi. Anyone who says she has no personality or character arc simply isn’t paying attention
Stripey Arse “Rey masters force mind tape and kick’s Kylo’s ass in the first movie.” Uh... no, not at all. She turns his mind reading back on him for a moment. Hardly “mastering” it. In the duel at the end, she does horribly for most of it. She barely even looks like she knows how to hold the lightsaber. What few hits she does land are mostly due to Kylo’s being severely injured and having just fought Finn. She doesn’t turn the fight around until Kylo reminds her that she’s force sensitive, and she starts to let the Force guide her actions (it’s similar to Luke turning off his targeting computer). Not to mention that Kylo was pulling his punches. He didn’t want to kill her. He didn’t even want to hurt her. He wanted to turn her. “Lifting boulders of Yoda-ish capabilities.” *facepalm* “Size matters not.”
Stripey Arse I didn’t need video links that don’t, in any way, disprove anything I’ve said. I’ve seen each of these movies multiple times. First, I’ve never seen mind tricks as being a particularly high-level force ability. Second, Yoda makes it really REALLY clear in that scene that size DOES NOT matter at all when it comes to lifting things with the Force. The only thing that stops Luke from doing it is his self-doubt and impatience.
At least Luke had some training
Rose Williams ok
In just a third of the first SW movie (ep. 4) we cared about the characters already! We cared about EVERYTHING about SW. Asoka took a bit to get to a point for me to like, but her presence made me sympathize with Anakin right away! Eventually she became on of my favorites, though my TOP spot goes to the hero of it all R2D2.
The difference is that Ashoka is a well-developed character who overcomes real struggles in the most chaotic and turbulent period of galactic history.
Ray just, y’know, is the chosen one. That’s all the justification needed for her to be powerful.
Im a scavenger, nah jk I'm nobody, sike I'm a palpatine, a matter of fact I just feel like a Skywalker now
This sums it up nicely
Anakin is disappointed
2008 Star Wars Fans: Ahsoka is the worst character in star wars ever
2020 Star Wars Fans: Ashoka is one of if not the best character in all of star wars
2015 Star Wars Fans: Ok Rey was weird but I am sure she will get a lot of character development
2019 Star Wars Fans: I never knew I could be this disappointed
As you said Ahsoka is everything Rey should've been. And it doesn't take 3 movies for character development, an example is Han solo who took around 2 movies for everyone to find perfect and have massive character development. You also have characters in clone wars who barely appeared and people loved. Hevy, Jesse, Tup, Hardcase, and more.
and they Threw away all of Han's Character Development in The ST
joey pieper tbh i liked han in TFA
one of the rare things in the ST i liked
Dude I hated Ahsoka when she was brought into the show in 2008 😂😂. Now she is my favorite character who is better than Rey.
Guess the writing is getting worse.
Ryan Dysinger or Fives!!!! My man Fives was at the heart of the giant “plot” or “conspiracy” made by the Kaminoans and Palpatine. JJ Abrams is just a terrible director, the scripts sucked and it had too much “PC Police” influence.
Uuuuuugh! That picture of Ahsoka standing in front of "her" men... breaks me every time.
Just came across your channel and I’m throughly enjoying your content!
In this past year, I’ve really been diving into Star Wars lore and fandom. Coming across the true underlying story being told in Star Wars and how in depth everything goes. I’m loving it!
Thank you!
So, I’m re-watching the old Clone Wars movie and show and it’s reminding me why Ahsoka has a special place in my heart. She starts out brash, stubborn, and argumentative, but then she starts to learn how to temper her skills and personality and grows more powerful. She becomes less arrogant and more serious as each season goes on. When she does something wrong, and, believe me, she does many things wrong in the first few seasons, she gets in trouble for it, but she learns from her mistakes and slowly becomes a better, more skilled Jedi. Rey doesn’t have any growth or a real character arc, like Ahsoka does. She’s a blank slate and was used as a self insert for Kathleen Kennedy’s fanfiction.
using the word fanfiction implies that Kathleen Kennedy was a fan, or even knew anything about Star Wars to begin with
"When she does something wrong, and, believe me, she does many things wrong in the first few seasons"
Remember that time Ahsoka killed effectively an entire squad of clone pilots because she was overconfident and blatantly disregarded the orders and advice of her superiors who knew better? Can we give Rey some actual conflict now?
@@BigShrimpin_ Oop, I personally don’t like Ashoka but that’s not cause I don’t like her character or anything she’s amazing, I just don’t like watching her, I find her annoying, maybe it’s her word choice or her voice or that attitude grin of hers I don’t know but she is an amazing character regardless how annoying she is
My perspective:
Ashoka: a hero: doesn’t have much power crushes on lux, puts using what strength she has on saving the universe and helping people
Rey: a girl: has enough power to save universe in her finger tip, sits around while people die to mope because she’s too crushing on emo mockery wannabe of a sith pouty boy kylo( who is NOT a sith, the sith unleash their dark passions then harness and control them to gain power, he just blows up with no control, that’s like comparing a planet destroying fully controlled super laser with a self destructing Death Star, all he does it throw tantrums as you can tell I hate kylo)
Valid points to piggy back off of that I’d add that in the clone wars there are actual stakes involved in her decision making as well. Because Ahsoka is a leader when she messes up, clones usually die or almost die, which adds to her guilt she feels in her decision making. Rey is often times the most important piece in their plans but despite of that she doesn’t really seem to have anyone’s fate in her hands. When she makes a mistake the only person who “pays” the price is Rey but she usually just Mary sue’s her way out or the mess up immediately. You almost never see her actually dwell on a mistake or second guess herself because of it. She just keeps on keeping on. Which leads to a boring character with no real development.
Remember kids, Ahsoka was deemed "too childish" when the Clone Wars film came out...She's a padawan (a CHILD jedi)
There was a LOT of dialogue pertaining to her status as a youngling, one of the primary digs Anakin had against taking her as a padawan.
@@Cryogenius333 Yeah like Anakin didn't behave like a child throughout the saga ('but whhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhy dont you may meeeeeee a master?').
Correct me if I'm wrong, but she's 14 in that animated film and first series, and is maybe 18/19 in series 7. I'm guessing shes 16 by the second costume as she's teaching younglings and the mandalorian teens.
@@Cryogenius333 ok, and?😑
@@emjenkins464 never denied her age, many people consider teenagers still children, I'm sure Plo Koon would've called Ahsoka "little soka" forever if given the chance
Ahsoka is so strong because she had 2 years of training, and actual character development. And well she was trained by Anakin Skywalker and partially Obi Wan Kenobi.
If Rey's creation was based on how Ahsoka was created, she would have been both different AND loved by fans.
Change my mind.
Guys stop posting comments hating on Rey, I can’t like all of them
LMAO
I second this lol
Lmao not too sure this is original but damn good mate
Nice
Devois “almost had me in the first half-“ 😂 I agree
Make her a male and change her name to “Ray”.
Yep, movies are still bad.
Better still, call him Ray Ray and make it star wars spoof movies.
Why did they need both versions of obi wan to talk to her?
I think there was already a ray... he got cut in half and replaced by Sam witwer
Still i Think, she was one of the more interessting charakters, compared to anyone else
@@kgius7434 Rey?
Because Ashoka went on the Hero's Journey (see Joseph Campbell for further information). Ashoka experienced ups and downs, victories and defeats while growing as a person and in strength. In comparison, Rey slept at a Holiday Inn and woke up a Jedi Grandmaster. Hell, I think we would have bought it if she put a datacron to her head and all the knowledge, experiences, strengths, and training of the Jedi were instantly transferred to her. That would have made more sense than the cramp they gave us.
I remember someone defending the sequel trilogy saying "you people love Starkiller and he's overpowered" and to that I said. Yes. He's way too overpowered but it at least made sense. He was trained by Darth Vader since he was a child. It would make sense he would be powerful.
Rey was made to be perfect. J.J has said as much and that could've still worked but Rey went from novice to Jedi Master/Knight in the timespan of a year. The sequel trilogy takes place a little over a year. Starkiller was trained for two decades by Vader. Big difference of two overpowered characters.
Ahsoka trained her entire life to be a jedi. She deserves to be powerful. Rey was a normal civilian that, after training for a month could do more than any other jedi we’ve ever seen. Her character does not deserve to be nearly as powerful. If anything she should have the same power level as a jedi youngling. Disney tried to hard to make a female character. They tried and they failed. They didn’t put any thought into it at all. They thought that it would promote diversity to make a female character who has never been a jedi before suddenly master the force in a month.
Not only that, she was RESSURECTED BY THE AVATAR OF THE LIGHT SIDE. If that doesn't justify she'll have a little OPness (which wasn't even handed to her, she still had heart wrenching challenges) then I don't know what does.
@@TheAndrain Or the Sister just awoke abilities already inside Ahsoka.
My thoughts exactly, Ahsoka has been through much more than Rey ever could. War, being corrupted by the dark side, so much loss, resurrection by literally the embodiment of the light side and betrayal by the Jedi. She should be stronger than almost any Jedi besides Vader and maybe Luke. Hell she was trained by arguably the most powerful Jedi ever!
@@dustinhughes9492 EXACTLY! Ahsoka had YEARS of training on top of everything you mentioned. I think she's been FAR underpowered in her appearances after season 6.
Right? Even though Rey was a descendent of Palpatine she shouldn't have been that powerful. Palpatine TRAINED under plagueis for YEARS to get as powerful as he was. He just didn't suddenly wake up one day and have mastered all 7 forms of lightsaber combat and force lightning. He really put in the work. Maul, Ahsoka, they all did. Even the chosen one, born of the Force, Anakin himself trained for YEARS in the Jedi temple to get as powerful as he was. But here comes Rey, a newbie who had never trained a minute in her life, and suddenly can go toe to toe with a direct descendant of Anakin Skywalker himself who had been training under Luke Skywalker for years. Rey is hated because she is just unrealistic and didn't have to work at all, she was just born with amazing power and the ability to know how to use it. Make it make sense, Disney.
The reason why Ashoka is getting love, it’s because Ashoka had to go through training and years of war while Rey know everything without training.
I know some people argue that its ok because of Luke in the first film not having training either. Correct me if I'm wrong but I can't remember Luke seriously dueling anyone with a lightsaber in the first movie, he loses his duel (and hand) against Vader in the second movie, and the only reason he kinda wins against Vader in the third movie is because Leia was threatened and he /maybe/ gave into the Dark Side. Luke may be 'Farm Boy of Destiny' but he had 4ish Years of training by the end of the 3rd movie and still couldn't really beat Vader, a skilled opponent with decades more experience. In the first movie of the sequels we see Rey duel Kylo Ren, a force wielder with decades of experience (I think he's canonically 10ish years older than her). She didn't even have the day of preliminary training that Luke got in his first film. And she won.
please learn how to spell ahsoka
@@mclaire9447 Rey has years of combat experience too though. She had to fend for herself on a dangerous planet.
@@JaylukKhan Luke lived on a remote homestead on Tantooine, a planet that is likely much more dangerous considering we are told next to nothing about Jakku and are given no reason to believe otherwise. Rey is likely very talented and well trained with a staff, but training with one weapon doesn't immediately mean mastery or even competency with other weapons, especially with something as specialised as a lightsaber; which can just as easily dismember its user as their opponent
@@mclaire9447 he wasn't a woman living by himself though. That's an important distinction.
People say that it was diverse because there was a female lead. While it wasn't diverse at all. Most of the characters were in fact human while star wars is supposed to be diverse in races. I wish that there were more aliens. While I do like a female lead, they could've made it a descendant of a Skywalker. Since Princess Leia is the sister of Luke why not make their daughter, Jaina Solo, the main character instead.
Here's my take on this Rey/Ahsoka Contradiction.
Ahsoka: At first immature and over-eager because she was a child (expected). Not overly powerful as a jedi because she was a padawan learner (again, expected). Over time she gains experience and forms her own views and opinions. Faces many adversities through her travels that challenges her. Fails at times and learns from those failures. Leaves the Order because she needed to find her own path. After Order 66 she further expands her knowledge and mastery of the force, making a real effort to avoid and even triumphing over those who pursue her. Lives long enough and goes through enough to become someone who can be considered a true Master of the Force.
Basically: grew stronger over time and learned from everything.
Rey: The same through all the movies. No character development. Magically gains force techniques on a whim where others (including Anakin, the Chosen One) had to work hard to even grasp the concept. Creators focused on "Strong, Female Character", essentially creating an already all-powerful figure, a Mary Sue, rather than "Strong, Well-Written Character", one that will work towards a goal and will face adversity and challenges that will either hamper or aid their said growth.
Basically: always seemed to have the skills despite never actually doing them before.
Rey accidentally farted force lightning killing a whole ship of people she thought Chewy was on. Then she didn't turn to the dark side? So she can use dark side powers without being on the dark side... That breaks the whole reason Anakin turned to the dark side to save Padme.
Rey literally warped the cannon of the universe around her.
@@rrteppo she also could use jedi mind tricks without training and without even knowing what the force is within like 10 minutes of being made aware that there is something thats called the force but sure she is not a mary sue at al 🙄🙄
Yeah Rey is really a Mary Sue.
If you’re stories are solely based around how powerful the hero must be to defeat the villain, you’re not telling a good story.
And just look at how much of a badass padme is in the clone wars she kicks ass
Gosh Padme has had so many assassinations attempts but always comes back fighting harder.
Ashoka is a brat but she was bad ass okay, Rey is just a glorified marry sue
and now its the same with kenobi. first he struggled to move a 5cm iron thing and then throws tons of stones on vader
Ray: gets a Zoom lesson from Luke about the Jedis and their compassion
-> immediately becomes a super powerful Jedi
Ahsoka: fights in the clones wars, gets trained by Anakin, Obi-Wan, Rex and Yoda
-> gains her strength
Thats whats makes a good character, the viewer wants to live the journey with them, -> Luke with Yoda for example
Plo Koon who found Ahsoka Also trained her a bit
We got just as much of Rey training with Luke as we got of Luke training with Yoda
@@PatheticApathetic I used to like this point, because it is true, they have the same time with their own master, but:
Luke got his hand cut off by Vader and he gets destroyed once Vader starts to force-throw stuff at him.
Rey does way better on Snoke's ship. She's still no match for him but she can hold her ground against Kylo once the fighting is over. Even tho she is AS untrained as Luke, she escape pretty much ok.
She failed her primary objective of bringing Ben back and it costs Luke's life just as Luke lost his hand, the message of leaving training on an impusle and paying consequences is the same, but it isn't as apparent for Rey as she seems to get out without an actual scratch and Luke even tho he dies, still save the Resistance from compete destruction. Even tho it's a technical failure, good still comes from it whereas Luke DOESN'T save Han, get his hand cut off and is mentally weaker than he was because he learned the truth about Vader.
The feeling of "Untraindness" and failure isn't the same.
IDK, I don't hate TLJ or Rey but this point don't appear as good as it used too.
She also beat Kylo ren a once trained Jedi, with no force training
@@Miguelvillaloboss Was Ben ever more than an apprentice tho ? Like, did he finish his actual training with Luke ? I can't remember.
Not that it matters in the Last Jedi as they never fight. They force fight over Luke's saber but she doesn't win.
In Rise of Skywalker he actually win.
The only defeat against Rey is on Starkiller at the end of TFA and I don't like the argument that he should have bested her after taking the Crossbow shot to the sides. He is powerful but being able to kill two people while barely standing up would have been bad ass, sure, but a bit too much.
Vader may have been able to do it but...Well he is a different beast altogether.
Am I the only person who thought Rey's lightsaber skills looked awful.
No they were truly awful, imo most of the lightsaber combat in this trilogy in general was terrible
They are dreadful. Daisy Ridley's handling of a lightsaber, and Rey being the bestest Jedi ever, are two things that do not compute with each other whatsoever.
Awful is an understatement. She looks like she's swinging a bat, not a sword.
She looks like that one kid fighting for the video game controller.
I am glad I am not the one, she honestly looks like she is just swinging her arms around and hoping she hits her target
I know she wasn't brought up but my counter argument to the "Ashoka had a tv show" argument is "fine. What about Jynn Urso (probably misspelled that. I'm sorry)" She had one movie that she shared with 5 other characters and I've still not heard anyone complaining about her.
I think the biggest difference is:
When Ahsoka debuted in The Original Clone Wars Movie she was initially annoying but she changed and got better over the Series.
They never ever considered fixing Rey because they refuse to believe she has faults.
1. maul was a sith lord i expect him to be strong when Palpatine can destroy worlds with lightning.
2. ashoka was trained by the chosen one
Also, Ahsoka DIED on Mortis, and was resurrected by the Daughter using her own life force (the Daughter was the literal embodiment of the light side of the force) upon her own death at the Son's hand...
That alone can explain a great many things about just how powerful Ahsoka would later become. If anything it amped up her already high potential as a jedi and made her... something else.
The fall of Anakin taught Ashoka that the dark side can corrupt the most powerful Jedi.
@@stinkyfungus you might argue that the Death of Ashoka means that it was just a skin being worn by another entity later when she is revived.
Disclaimer: If u like Rey then like Rey, u shouldn't feel like ur opinion is wrong, it's what u like and there's nothing wrong with that.
Rey had very very very little character development. She literally felt the same the entire time. She didn't really grow as a character, she didn't face any challenges, and she doesn't act or feel like a Star Wars character should. At least with Kylo Ren we had a backstory on how he became like he was. He faced challenges and developed as a character, whether it was through comics, flashbacks, or even in the present story. Like she got barely any training too! She needs flaws and a great story so people can relate to her and like her.
This is a really good point. I don't know if I agree that she didn't face challenges, but you can definitely say that the challenges didn't lead to character development.
Matthew Collier It just boils down to the lore, don’t run from it and Rey could have been a loveable character. The only thing I see what Rey have as a great quality, is bringing new audience, the less than 20% that made the originals such a success. I’m a Star Trek fan over Star Wars, and when I watched Force Awakens, “WoW, they F**ked up”.
I really like Rey AND I think she had character development AND I think she had flaws AND I accept the dyad explanation for her innate skill with the Force AND I think it's okay if others dont agree with me because certain characters and stories resonate with certain people and not others.
...which is why I resoundingly and utterly reject the opinions of people like Thor Skywalker because those opinions pretend to be based in objective fact about a subjective medium.
His entire castle of opinions is built on that sand of a flawed understanding of storytelling.
(And don't get me started on the subject of this video which seems to ignore the established notion of certain places and times creating a deeper well of power or stronger connection to the Force. Or the unconfirmed notion that the Force itself can "will" certain things - like the virgin birth of The Chosen One.)
(I guess I got a little started!)
See, unlike how Thor describes people as though they fit these conveniently flawed stereotypes which can be easily dismissed by a calmly delivered and intrinsically flawed argument, turns out people are different and exhibit myriad preferences and predilections. The same criticism he has for those who jump to conclusions about people who dislike Rey and/or the sequels can be equally applied to his description of those who defend Rey and/or the prequels.
None of this dialogue soaked in stereotype (on either side) is really helping Star Wars at all.
Angelo Barovier «Thor»?
Angelo Barovier What on earth are you trying to prove? Rey is beloved by lower minorities of Star Wars fandom, and could go down even less from original trilogy. Any stories that spits in the face of original fans that made it into a franchise, deserve a hate from me as well before it destroys my beloved franchise. The story telling ran so far from the lore, made the original trilogy as pointless, made the prequels as non existence, the clone wars, the rebels, everything was completely destroyed in 3 movies.
His opinion is built on flawed understanding or storytelling, it’s more likely the other way around, if you change the light sabers into swords, change several names, you get another movie that is not Star Wars. It’s like giving an elf a machine gun, you like the elf, but it doesn’t fit into stories/lores about elf.
It feels SOO good to finally have someone point this out. Thank you.
I heard in a interview with Liam Neeson that the Midichlorians were important to the theme of the movie; that all life is precious and coexistence with other life forms is necessary. That everyone should be treated fair and equally.
I love that theme