The Beatles after Paul died. Actually his replacement was as good if not better than Paul. And he looked like Paul’s twin. And played left handed bass and had the same exact voice. Not to mention was as good a songwriter. What good luck. Maybe the Beatles were actually better after Paul died.
Bill Berry sang a lot in REM - I think the interplay of the 3 voices was quite special - the chorus of “Fall On Me” comes to mind… also, they became a band together, and (like U2) always credited the songs to the four of them as songwriters, so him leaving was like removing a leg of the table
For the most part, I like R.E.M.'s albums after Bill Berry left (and there are even a handful of great songs sprinkled through that time) but I agree it wasn't quite the same. Goes to show how important a drummer is to a band's sound.
Agree about Berry's departure. But R.E.M had already been around a long time by the time he left and had quite a discography by then. I am not confident their time without him would have been much different if he had stayed. I enjoy some of their post-Berry music but I think the creative well was starting to dry up by then and they got 10 albums with him.
Matt Sharp is a classic one that I was sure you would mention. Of course Rivers is to 'blame' for the direction the band took after the hiatus, but they were never the same after Matt left.
Queensryche after Chris DeGarmo left. He didn't go out on a high note with Hear in the Now Frontier but he was already thinking about leaving after recording the Promised Land album. Without him, Queensryche was completely lost and eventually imploded.
REM is a good example, but they adapted very well. They even printed the song lyrics after Bill Berry retired. Michael Stipe became a great singer after 1998.
Another category that would be interesting to see one day is albums where the band/artist tried to get more in line with current trends and just embarrassed themselves.
10cc after the Godley and Creme's departure. Witty and humorous pop music that never really got the recognition it surely deserved even as a foursome but fell away massively after the split. Future discography suggestion, perhaps?
Bruce Springsteen after David Sancious left the band was never the same. Rarely spoken about these days but he was a great musician and very important to those sophisticated arrangements.
Good call. David Sancious is fantastic, more of a jazzy player. Also, I actually prefer Vinnie Lopez on drums to Max Weinberg. Max is probably more technically skilled, but Lopez could swing where I find Max kind of stiff. Bruce's band on those first two records was a different band with Sancious and Lopez, for sure.
Bill Berry was a lot more than just a drummer in R.E.M. He was a multi-instrumentalist and made significant songwriting contributions to the band. Apparently, "Everybody Hurts", "Driver 8" and "Man on the Moon" we're just three of the huge songs he brought to the table.
The Byrds after David Crosby left, The Notorious Byrd Brothers for me is one of the all time greats, afterwards merely pretty good to not really. The Stones with Mick Taylor is for me the all time best Stones era (especially with Jimmy Miller at the controls). Massive Attack, the first 3 albums are all wonderful, after Mushroom left, merely pretty good. Marillion after Fish left, not crazy for, but Misplaced Childhood & Clutching At Straws are excellent.
Mark Olson leaving The Jayhawks after 'Tomorrow the Green Grass' . Even on stage the rest of the members openly discussing how Gary Louris thought things would never be the same.Ranking their albums would be great.
A few that spring to mind ... Fairport Convention minus the irreplaceable lead vocals of Sandy Denny ... Barclay James Harvest who staggered on for two decades after their "heart and soul" founder member Woolly Wolstenholme left .... 10cc on the departure of the creative genius of Kevin Godley and Lol Creme.
The first name I thought of when I saw the episode title was Bill Berry... r.e.m. is maybe my 2nd favorite band ever (behind the beatles), but they were much better when he was around. What people dont mention, or even realize, is how important Bill's vocals were (everyone gushes on and on about Mills), but especially early on, Bill sang a lot. And it's widely acknowledged that he mainly composed the music for tracks like Perfect Circle, Cant get there from here, Everybody hurts, Man on the moon, Tongue, Leave, etc.. I guess his biggest influence was as arranger, because they never sounded as good after he left.
I've sometimes wondered if Berry's departure and R.E.M.'s artistic decline were merely coincidental. (I'm no fan of Monster, for example.) The band had an amazing run from Chronic Town thru AFTP, but nothing perfect lasts forever, right?
Bill Berry was on Monster and New Adventures in Hifi, but he left in 1997 whiilst he toured for New adventures. I'm sure there are some decent songs after Berry left but R.E.M feel like one of those bands where the unity of members is essential. I've heard songs from the albums after he left and they just feel a bit... empty? Like the rest of the band can't adjust to his absence.
@@haroldushawkinsi5804 R.E.M.'s decline, in my view, was partly down to sheer exhaustion; they had maintained a relentless work rate for more than ten years, and the strain began to show. When Berry left, that process was already underway, and it accelerated in his absence. When they chose not to replace him in their official lineup, it was an acknowledgement that he was essentially irreplaceable, and that the band had undergone a fundamental change.
Though they weren't bad Fairport Covention improved when Judy Dyble left and Sandy Denny joined. Then there was a dip in quality after Denny, then Richard Thompson, left. I recently heard something off of a later album, Angel Delight, and I didn't know it was them; I ended up liking it, so not knowing the identity of an artist can wipe away any preconceptions. 10 CC took a dive after Creme and Godley left. I disagree with Joe's opinion about Big Star; I think Radio City is chock full of pop hooks and melodies. I do think Sister Lovers is brilliant, but it's really a Big Star record in name only, so I kinda get his opinion on that. The Pixies, after Kim Deal, has a few ok tunes, but nothing stuck to me.
Surprised no one mentioned the different personnel changes in Fleetwood Mac. On the subject of Alice Cooper, many people thought he lost something when he changed his band between Muscle of Love and Welcome to My Nightmare. The Supremes made some interesting music after Diana Ross left but they still weren't the same. And many people thought Steely Dan became overly formal when they started using session musicians instead of a core band.
It's weird because it didn't really hurt Fleetwood Mac in the early 70s. But once Lindsey joined in 75 and then left in 87, it was almost impossible to enjoy their music without him. It's one of those "don't understand what you've lost until you've had it" situations.
Indeed. They've had some good songs since he left (Home, It's No Good, Suffer Well, Wrong, Precious), but they are sadly few and far between, considering that they're spread over a 19 year period
I'm sure many might not agree, but AC/DC after Bon Scott. Brian Johnson certainly has his moments and is about as good of a frontman as you could ask for, but it's still just not the same.
Interesting story....When the popular UA-cam channel Tastes Like Music teased audiences that there would be "no more Joe" , then changed the story to " slight illness, he will be back", rumour has it, original founder and ruthless , self appointed leader of the TLM collective , Jason Reis had planned to oust the popular "man of the people" Joe Steigerwald from the show after heated behind the scenes " creative differences", Even the emotional pleas of mediator and peace negotiator Ryan Kramzer couldn't heal the rift. However, the astute business mind of Reis , sensing a social media backlash and revolt from large factions of the TLM audience, realised that this would be a public relations disaster for the channel and quickly adjusted the initial announcement of Steigerwald's departure , to a "being due to illness " and " don't worry fans , he will be back" media release. Whether the creative differences have been settled between Steigerwald and Reis is unclear , but for the prosperity of the channel an "amicable professional working agreement " was reached between the two. That's the story I heard anyway...so it must be true ( that's how it works these days).
The most dramatic change that you mentioned has to be the loss of Jim Morrison. They never should have bothered with the albums they made after he died where the other guys take the vocals.
It would be fine if they stayed together but needed to 1. change the name 2. add a vocalist or become an instrumental-only group. Obviously the commercial appeal of a instrumental group is limited. Should have added a vocalist who would have avoided Jim Morrison comparison. Female choice would have been interesting. They could have been right there at the beginning of the prog wave. Robbie wanted to take them in a jazz direction. Of course they went ahead and made a choice so monumentally bad that most fans don't even consider Other Voices/Full Circle to be actual Doors albums. They "don't count" is the usual reaction.
Pixies have been great live with Paz in recent years but, really, without Kim Deal it's a high end tribute act. No Kim, no deal. Andy Gill briefly carried on with a Jon King-less Gang Of Four 2.0 in the 2010s - to rough result. Hawkwind was never the same without Lemmy. Robert Smith was never the same after 40. And Kajagoogoo was balls without Limahl. We all think it.
Stranglers week was fun. Gave me a chance to revisit some teenage favorites. As for bands that were not the same, Joe's comedy act is developing nicely. Roxy Music without Eno! lol (Stranded notwithstanding) I would nominate - The Saints - reformed without Ed Kuepper. The occasional song, but such a lesser band. The Band - reformed without the principal songwriter Robbie Robertson. It was a sad way for their legacy to fizzle out. Suede - not the same without Bernard Butler. Gang Of Four - Dave Allen left after Solid Gold and without him, they withered. Public Image Limited - A tossup as to whether Jah Wobble's departure after Metal Box or Keith Levene after Flowers of Romance left them more bereft. The Pogues - Carried on without Shane MacGown. Not the same. Gil Scott-Heron - Once he stopped working with Brian Jackson the wheels started to fall off. Some good work post-Jackson but something was missing. The Rolling Stones - They may have sporadically made some good music in the intervening years but a lot feels like going through the motions post-Brian Jones/Mick Taylor Can - Nothing worth listening to after Holger Czukay left.
Joe's Eno is the criminal who led David Bowie astray, turned Talking Heads into garbage and ruined the promising career of a young Irish Band named U2. He also cursed the universe with ambient music and kept Robert Fripp from making interesting music. Most wanted villain in the TLM universe. The only good thing about the guy was that he never got near to the holy Rush.
King Crimson without John Wetton also lost something that they could never replicate with Tony Levin and Andrew Belew, even though they are fantastic players.
I'd say that KC have changed direction so many times. The first shift was when McDonald, Giles and Lake left. The Fripp-Wetton-Bruford-Muir was both shocking and mesmerising.
@@mariosandri4010 As I see it they were still trying to find a direction in those first four albums (which are all fantastic) but they finally arrived at what Fripp was looking for when Wetton and Bruford joined and that to me is the classic lineup. Whatever came after was cool but nowhere near the same impact. There's just something about John's voice against those haunting harmonies of songs like Fallen Angel and Nightwatch that to me is where KG is at its finest.
I kinda agree, but they were losing their way already and offer Chicago VIII & X as proof... Even XI... The best part of XI was a song they initially recorded for V and discarded, (thought it does show up on Chicago Live in Japan)
@@CrunchyFrog47 I hear what you're saying. Terry had concerns towards the end about where the band was going but I think enough of the classic Chicago remained. After he passed, there was no resemblance.
@@robertharvey2604 The decline had started already with Terry still there but playing less of a role. VII was pretty mellow, VIII was rescued by the fact that it was just a single LP but in hindsight the warning signals were there.
The Band after reforming without Robbie Robertson. Don't mind that they went on without him and I enjoy checking out some later era live stuff on YT but his songwriting was really needed.
In my mind, the fact that the later version of The Band was was so bereft of good songs bolsters Robbie Robertson's claim that he was the guy who wrote nearly everything.
they were never the same but possibly they got better: Vince Clarke left Depeche Mode after the debut album, and DM got much darker. in my opinion (and it's not a popular opinion), Ultravox changed for the worse when John Foxx left, but recruiting Midge Ure brought them commercial success. PiL put out 2 classic albums before losing the guitarist, bassist, and drummer. the following albums were less than... The Specials were never the same after Terry Hall, Neville Staple, and Lynval Golding left. The Fall struck gold when Brix Smith joined on guitar. after she divorced Mark E Smith and left the band, the quality dropped noticeably. Stan Ridgeway left Wall of Voodoo, and the band lost the little traction they had gotten from their one hit, "Mexican Radio." Iron Maiden replaced Bruce Dickinson with Blaze Bayley, and I don't know anyone who praises those 2 albums. similarly, Tim Ripper-Owens presided over flop-era Judas Priest. poor Gary Cherone stepped in after Sammy Hagar left Van Halen and that was a disaster.
So right re Ultravox!(their exclamation mark). I saw them with John Foxx in 1978 and they were tremendous. The Vienna album has it's moments esp Western Promise and did see them on that tour. They were actually pretty good, but after that? No thanks!
Budgie is a beast! I think I even like his and Siouxsie's Creatures project more than the Banshees. and McGeoch is great on everything he was involved in. I especially love his guitar work in Magazine.
This might be controversial but I would’ve loved to have seen Bon Scott live. I’ve seen AC/DC several times (my hubby is a huge fan!) but I much prefer Bon Scott’s voice/presence/glint in his eye than Brian Johnson’s. Just not old enough to have seen the original line-up. Bummer.
Your comment is not controversial at all. I'm in total agreement with you, having seen AC/DC live in 1978 in Cambridge. Bon Scott was and always will be vastly superior to Brian Johnson. It was an unforgettable night for me because I actually touched both(Angus in Bon's shoulders) as they came through the crowd playing, Whole Lotta Rosie 🎸
Nancy kicking Roger Fisher to the curb. Those first 4 Heart albums are the best in my opinion.......and you ain't a kidding, Cetera's sap makes my ears bleed!!!
Greetings gazn. Glad you had a chance to hear some Fish Karma. 2 best albums are the mostly acoustic Halloween in America and the post punk gem Theory of Intelligent Design.
Big Star are unique in that all three of their albums are masterpieces in their own ways. The third, especially, is out there on its own. Anyway, in their time, any alleged "decline" was not evident, as their albums went all but unheard until long after the band ceased to exist.
They actually have 4 albums. There was a reunion album in 2005 that nobody ever mentions. But yeah. Just listen to September Gurls for further proof that they were still great without Chris Bell. One of the greatest unknown songs ever. Radio City is a classic
Chicago, I would argue, were some distance down the soft rock path well before Terry Kath passed on. Exhibit A: "If You Leave Me Now." (Kath himself certainly had his softer moments, too, like "Colour My World.")
Jim Martin was also a heavy loss for FNM, even though I love all their albums, they were never the same without his hard rocker edge. And his awesome hair and sunglasses.
@@amanbatra1501 Oh, I totally agree, Trey did an awesome job replacing Jim, but still, he didn't hang around and little by little the guitar became less and less a driving force in the band. I think their sound suffered from it. But yeah, KfaD and AotY are both classics in my book.
Kool & The Gang without singer James Taylor. Depeche Mode after Alan Wilder left: in my opinion they lost their freshness. Fleetwood Mac with or without Lindsey Buckingham: a big difference in my opinion. Pink Floyd after Syd Barrett left: they really were never the same (so it counts). The Pogues made two forgettable albums without Shane MacGowan. The Beach Boys without Brian Wilson: they suck a bit. Duran Duran without guitarist Andy Taylor. 10CC without Godley & Creme. Nits after Robert-Jan Stips left (luckily he returned later). Brings me to another topic: bands where a key member left but returned a bunch of records later. Iron Maiden and Bruce Dickinson pop to mind.
When John Cale left the VU they became a very different band, still great but different Also Dio Sabbath, still decent , but a very different band from the Ozzy era.
Thin Lizzy after Robbo left, good guys joined but wasn't the same. Butler leaving Suede turned them from world-beaters to just an ordinary britpop band.
Hard disagree on Suede - Oakes is _extraordinary_ - but I understand your point. Butler was a unique animal - even he, himself, has yet to recapture the rare ingenuity of the moment.
Soft Machine after Daevid Allen left. Soft Machine after Kevin Ayers left. Soft Machine after Robert Wyatt left. Soft Machine after Hugh Hopper left. Soft Machine after Mike Radledge left. Soft Machine after Elton Dean left. Soft Machine after Alan Holdsworth left.
Echo & The Bunnymen .... Ian McCulloch with Noel Burk, only one album 'Reverberation' though I think it is a decent attempt but fortunately McCulloch would return... Pete De Frietas was also a big miss... Ultravox ... John Foxx with Midge Ure, the band found fame with the addition of Midge and also releasing one of the absolute classics of the 1980's 'Vienna'... They gained fame but the Foxx era Ultravox will always be my pick... OMD ... Paul Humphreys (synthesizer/keyboard, occasionally lead vocals & composer) left in 1989, Andy McCluskey would continue the band until 1996 then called it a day... The original line up would reform in 2006 and to the best of my knowledge McCluskey & Humphreys are still going strong and for someone in his early 60's Andy sounds just the same as in his heyday.... The Specials ... after the departure of Terry Hall, Neville Staple & Lynval Golding, they would go on to form Fun Boy Three and record one of my all timers "The Lunatics (Have Taken Over the Asylum)" , I don't know if it's true but I read many moons ago that 'The Lunatics' would have been the next potential Specials single if Terry Hall had stayed...
The Pretenders after James Honeyman-Scott died and Pete Farndon was sacked and then died. The Undertones without Feargal Sharkey as lead singer. The Cosmic Rough Riders after singer Daniel Wylie left. New Order, while still likeable, were never the same after Peter Hook left/was dropped.
Undertones without Sharkey? Was that not "That Petrol Emotion"? Unless you mean the 2003 reunion - in this case...nobody had heard Sharkey sing since 1991, so it is hard to tell how they would have sounded with him. New Order without Hook was a change for sure.
The case of Genesis was interesting, because even though they were indeed not the same after Gabriel, then Hackett left, sometimes splitting off is for the better for all parties. Gabriel's solo career thrived while Hackett maintained a modest following, to say nothing about the bangers Genesis also released in the 80s though the 70s remain superior.
Maiden after Di'Anno, Clash after Headon, Who after Keith, Stones after Jones and again after Taylor, Ramones after Dee Dee, Metallica after Cliff, Bowie after Ronson, Cure after Tolhurst, Pixies after Kim, Sabbath after Ozzy.
Dokken after George Lynch left the band! However, what was impressive was that the replacement guitarist they chose were really awesome! Reb Beach of Winger, John Norum of Europe. Their current guitarist since 2003 Jon Levin is really awesome and fans of Dokken really love him a lot!
Joe mentioned Genesis, but the obvious one is, the band after Phil Collins left. No one, including the band itself, liked the Genesis of Calling all Stations.
Skynnyrd is the first band that came to mind. Also the Stones after Taylor left. The Band w/o Robertson; the Clash w/o Jones. I do think Keith Moon may be one of the biggest loses to a band ever. After Bonzo. But LZ did the right thing then.
With the Stones I would probably say Wyman. Up until his departure they still released solid stuff, although the quality suffered towards the end of that period.
This might be a controversial opinion, but Squidward's marching band was better off after he left as conductor. Their performance at the bubble bowl was one for the ages
- The Wailers were a vocal trio with Marley, Peter Tosh and Neville Livingstone until 1975. Tosh and Livingstone (aka Bunny Wailer) left and Marley promoted the backing band to be "Wailers" from that time on. - Santana after Michael Shrieve left. Very astonishing to hear that in a band with so many percussionists it is the drummer who plays a lead role...but Shrieve was all the dynamics and even the "rock" in the band. I only ever understood it when experiencing the music of Fela Kuti and his "lead drummer" Tony Allen.
@@bengalgangster Given the incredible garbage those two produced after leaving Santana, I am happy to laugh with you on the best joke made here since long. Shrieve however was involved in some really good projects after Santana.
I’d have to say The Moody Blues after Denny Lane and Clint Warwick left the band. The Moody Blues were a bluesy band and some what pop. I haven’t heard there stuff after Denny Lane and Clint Warwick because I don’t know what to expect. Denny Lane’s a really great singer and put a lot of the soul into the band. I know this is more than likely an unpopular opinion.
Big Star's 3 original albums are all pretty universally praised, but I'd argue Chris Bell leaving after the debut was the beginning of a major downfall. He was clearly the leader that crafted the pop perfection that is Number 1 Record. They did not last long without him, and Bell's early demise is a tragic case of what could have been.
Much of Big Star's downfall had as much to do with lousy label support as anything else. Check out the documentary, Nothing Can Hurt Me; it's amazing that the filmmakers were able to make a compelling documentary with virtually no live footage of the band.
They didnt last long because the record label was horrible at promotion.i love chris bell but if tge reason big star didnt last long wirhout him,why didnt his solo career go anywhere after he left!!
@@peterpellechia5985 Both Bell and Chilton suffered from depression. Bell did manage to record some great stuff before his untimely death. Chilton seemd to get out of his depression, following his own eccentric path as a producer and musician. I got to see the reconstituted Big Star just a few months before Chilton's death. He was beaming, and obviously moved by the audience reaction.
@@johnlefsky8731 i saw their last show in brooklyn a few months before he died.loved alex and chris.chris recorded great music but none of it sold which is beyond belief
@@peterpellechia5985 That's where I saw them, too. There was a beautiful Big Star tribute in Central Park in 2013. Mike Mills, Kurt Vile, Sharon Van Etten, Chris Stamey, Jody Stephens, among others, played. There was even a string section led by the wonderful cellist Jane Scarpantoni.
Big Brother and the Holding Company could never sound quite the same without lead vocalist Janis Joplin, who left to go solo in late 1968. Joplin's voice was unique and irreplaceable.
Nick Gravenites surely did not sound like Janis (even though he had written Burried Alive in the Blues for her Pearl album). It does not mean that their 1970 Be a Brother album was not far better than anything they had recorded with Janis.
@@roxannewalsh Point taken. As frodofraggins noted elsewhere in these comments, "not the same" and "not as good" are two different criteria. I was simply observing that there was and can only be one Janis Joplin.
@@NaughtyVampireGod The one mitigating factor there is that Jones' role in the band had shrunk to almost nothing by 1969, but they kept making great records. He barely played on Beggars Banquet, for example.
My big one is Pink Floyd. They were never bad when Roger Waters left but, in my eyes, they never met the same heights that the band used to. Division Bell is fire tho.
While I dont think the first one that came to mind is totally a negative, it definitely signaled a change for the band and that's Bob Stinson leaving The Replacements. I love Pleased To Meet Me and some songs after that but the band was definitely different. The other that immediately came to mind was Chris Bell leaving Big Star like Joe mentioned. While I like the albums after a lot (aside from, of course, In Space) nothing quite matched the magic of #1 Record.
Slim Dunlap is a fine guitarist but wasn't ever great with The Replacements in the way Bob Stinson was. Bob played on 7 songs on Pleased to Meet Me and many more that were cut from that record and Slim played on none. On Pleased to Meet Me "Never Mind" was an angry kiss-off to Bob Stinson ("All over but the shouting/It's just a waste of time"). I think the producer's son, Luther Dickerson, was only 14 yrs and played on Never Mind and "Shooting Dirty Pool" and Valentine and Red Red wine. After Dickinson showed up at the recording studio wearing aftershave, Westerberg added the line To Shooting Dirty Pool “You’re the coolest guy I ever have smelled” about Luther. Paul himself played lead on "Alex Chilton"
Slim Dunlap didn't join the band until after the album was recorded. I like "{Don't Tell a Soul" more than most fans but sure it misses Bob but Paul wanted to get rid of "goop" or really Bob's noise. But every song is good with no throwaways. Bob Stinson finest work: the guitar at the end of Sixteen Blue. His live playing at 7th Street Entry on Johnny's Gonna Die and Bastards of Young .. of course much more. Seems such an important guitarist should have a list of his leads but this is not to be found and it could be "dirty pool".
@@oppothumbs1 so Bob Stinson was in Ardent Studios with the band at the time of the recording of Pleased To Meet Me? Maybe I misunderstood your comment.
My only entry to not the same is Billy Joel's band after he let go Stegmeyer, Javors, and Brown in 1988... I even prefer Canata to Rivera but he left in '81
Wilco became more like a softer Sonic Youth after Jay Bennett left. They lost all that Brian Wilson/Paul McCartney sugary power pop feel, went full on experimental, and then kind of mellowed out. Not worse, but different.
Sammy Hagar joining Van Halen after David Lee Roth. For me it's not that much to do with the voice of Sammy Hagar. I like Sammy Hagar as a singer even to this day. He will soon be out with a new album called "Crazy Times" as Sammy Hagar & The Circle for the interested out there. The problem for me was more the times of late 1980's and early 1990's and the direction the band went. I like songs on all the albums but also feel the productions could been much better, the songwriting was hit or miss and Eddie Van Halen (EVH) as great as he was not having anyone to challenge him. David Lee Roth might be a guy hard to get along with but he had a clear vision and could stand up to EVH. Sammy Hagar is as easy going as anyone can get. That's very cool in most cases but someone like Eddie Van Halen needs just voice to tell him "Really? That's it?" if something isn't up to par. Quite much on 5150, OU812, F.U.C.K and Balance isn't up to par. I think the band could done many songs better. Sammy Hagar was just having a good time and accepted anything EVH did. I think the quality on many songs suffered beccause of it. Sammy Hagar has done lots of material and while a spotty catalog there is really good stuff to be found. "Street Machine" from 1979 is a really fun and good rock album. Nothing fancy just good stuff. Standing Hampton (1982) is more of a AOR-album but still very solid. I like Sammy quite a bit but ranking Van Halen songs and/or albums. Much by "Van Hagar" will rank lower than the classic line-up for me.
The entire Zappa discography may be too much for you guys to get through, but I’d at least recommend that you guys cover The Mothers’ albums. Even their live albums are unique in that they mainly have songs not heard elsewhere.
Was prepared to hate "Drama" when it came out, but I consider it top notch. I do agree that the last several Yes albums without Anderson don't sound very good though. I listened to Supertramp's "Brother Where You Bound" a lot when it came out, thought it was better than I do now, though there are some decent tracks on it - the title track is great IMHO. The stuff they did afterwards was pretty poor. Chicago took two hits IMHO, the loss of Kath then the loss of Cetera. That said, I quite liked their first post-Kath album "Hot Streets" and would agree that the last couple with Cetera was pretty bland. The Pogues aren't the Pogues without Shane MacGowan.
Mott without Hunter. However I love the Shouting And Pointing album for what it is, a fine 70s rock record. Dr Feelgood were never the same after Wilko left, their biggest hit Milk And Alcohol written by Nick Lowe. Pretty sure they're still touring with NO original members!
While I agree that Dr Feelgood changed after Wilko left (he joined Ian Dury for Laughter), I would not say it went downhill. Rather, they had done more or less everything possible with that line-up and needed some new blood...Milk and Alcohol featured Gypie Mayo who also co-wrote it. And the Mayo-era albums are very good as well. Wilko's solo stuff is solid as well, his late collaboration with Who's Roger Daltrey was a career highlight for both of them.
I’m a much bigger fan of the era of Dire Straits that had Pick Withers as the drummer . Once he left , they didn’t rock as hard , and became much more commercially oriented . I feel exactly the same way about Jethro Tull after Barriemore Barlow left the drum kit , although I still like A , Broadsword & the Beast , Crest of a Knave , and Roots to Branches quite a bit . Let’s not even discuss the departure of Martin Barre ( who I saw a couple of months ago with his band , and they were great , including Tull’s original drummer , Clive Bunker ) Cheers !
The Stones after Mick Taylor is a good choice. I've always felt his departure marked the dividing line between "classic Stones" (everything up to 1974) and "merely very good Stones" (everything after '74).
"Not the same" and "Not as good" are two very different takes imo. So, Genesis were certainly not the same but I think they were better when they lost Gabriel. They were tighter and more melodic. Although they eventually became an extended Phil Collins band. Black Sabbath's heyday was with Ozzie, but I prefer Dio's albums with them. So I'd label it as "not the same". I think Floyd got better after Waters left as "The Final Cut" sounded like songs from the Wall that didn't make the cut. Waters early solo albums needed Gilmour more than AMLOR and TDB needed Roger. Roger was just too limited melodically but he was bailed out by Jeff Beck and others on Amused to Death which was very solid.
You’re take on Pink Floyd is spot on. I’d rank Amused to Death slightly above The Division Bell and A Momentary Lapse of Reason, but I would rank both of those albums fairly easily above The Final Cut and any Roger Waters solo album other than Amused to Death.
The Doors without Jim tops the list. Genesis without Peter. For those fans that don't agree we just don't agree. Trick and Wind are as you stated very good albums. They are not 5 star lps. From Nursery Cryme through The Lamb, 5 star lps ( and then some). The Lamb is arguably the best prog album ever. What would they they done next ?
I'd say little feat - George lowell is a big one. Fairport convention (either sandy denny or Richard Thompson). For the eagles I'd say beanie leadon as I think he was one of the most important members and the band changed for the worse when he left imo. With the byrds I'd go for Gene clark, emphasis turned further away from songwriting and more on effects which is still good. Suede without Bernard butler are not the same band.
I'm glad you stood up to the Genesis comments. Trick of The Tail, Wind and Wuthering, Duke and even and We Can't Dance had awesome proggy poppy weirdness that hits the sweet spot for me. Abacab, ST, and Invisible Touch are pure pop, but they do it well.
@@TastesLikeMusic Sister Lovers is brilliant, but it's really a Big Star album in name only. It's the sound of a fractured mind. Holocaust, Kangeroo, Nightime, among others, are beautiful. As far as Radio City being sloppy, that's fine. Some of my favorite music sounds like the musicians are teetering on the edge of a cliff. I love good production/arrangements as much as anyone, but I like chaos and danger too.
Not sure if anyone here is an Our Lady Peace fan, but their 1st four albums are pretty darn good. Then guitarist Michael Turner left the band and they were never quite the same (although their next album Gravity was probably their biggest seller).
Gravity did suck. Though I assumed it was because Maida tried to go more mainstream and boring but I’m sure losing the guitarist also contributed. - Joe
The Beatles after Paul died. Actually his replacement was as good if not better than Paul. And he looked like Paul’s twin. And played left handed bass and had the same exact voice. Not to mention was as good a songwriter. What good luck.
Maybe the Beatles were actually better after Paul died.
Bill Berry sang a lot in REM - I think the interplay of the 3 voices was quite special - the chorus of “Fall On Me” comes to mind… also, they became a band together, and (like U2) always credited the songs to the four of them as songwriters, so him leaving was like removing a leg of the table
For the most part, I like R.E.M.'s albums after Bill Berry left (and there are even a handful of great songs sprinkled through that time) but I agree it wasn't quite the same. Goes to show how important a drummer is to a band's sound.
I like those albums, too - quite a lot. Impressed with the evolution...
I think Bill Berry was credited (not in a legal sense as they always used a collective credit) with writing some of their best loved slower songs.
He wrote Perfect Circle. REM werent REM without him.
Agree about Berry's departure. But R.E.M had already been around a long time by the time he left and had quite a discography by then. I am not confident their time without him would have been much different if he had stayed. I enjoy some of their post-Berry music but I think the creative well was starting to dry up by then and they got 10 albums with him.
Matt Sharp is a classic one that I was sure you would mention. Of course Rivers is to 'blame' for the direction the band took after the hiatus, but they were never the same after Matt left.
Drummers are underrated. Berry, Headon and Moon come to mind. Zep didn’t even try after Bonham died.
Drummers are more important to a band's sound than I ever realized. I see that more now as I listen.
Queensryche after Chris DeGarmo left. He didn't go out on a high note with Hear in the Now Frontier but he was already thinking about leaving after recording the Promised Land album. Without him, Queensryche was completely lost and eventually imploded.
REM is a good example, but they adapted very well. They even printed the song lyrics after Bill Berry retired. Michael Stipe became a great singer after 1998.
Another category that would be interesting to see one day is albums where the band/artist tried to get more in line with current trends and just embarrassed themselves.
Elton John - disco
10cc after the Godley and Creme's departure. Witty and humorous pop music that never really got the recognition it surely deserved even as a foursome but fell away massively after the split.
Future discography suggestion, perhaps?
👍
Absolutely!!!!
Also:
Gentle Giant
Moody Blues
Paul Simon
Jethro Tull
Van Morrison
Cure
Bruce Springsteen after David Sancious left the band was never the same. Rarely spoken about these days but he was a great musician and very important to those sophisticated arrangements.
Good call. David Sancious is fantastic, more of a jazzy player. Also, I actually prefer Vinnie Lopez on drums to Max Weinberg. Max is probably more technically skilled, but Lopez could swing where I find Max kind of stiff. Bruce's band on those first two records was a different band with Sancious and Lopez, for sure.
@@walterevans5658 yes exactly! I was going to mention lopez too but thought i would stick to one name. I always liked his frantic drumming.
Bill Berry was a lot more than just a drummer in R.E.M. He was a multi-instrumentalist and made significant songwriting contributions to the band. Apparently, "Everybody Hurts", "Driver 8" and "Man on the Moon" we're just three of the huge songs he brought to the table.
Driver 8 is SUCH a great song!
@@garrettredd2541 Absolutely! It is my runner-up SOTY 1985. Stipe called it "the train song". 😀
The Byrds after David Crosby left, The Notorious Byrd Brothers for me is one of the all time greats, afterwards merely pretty good to not really. The Stones with Mick Taylor is for me the all time best Stones era (especially with Jimmy Miller at the controls). Massive Attack, the first 3 albums are all wonderful, after Mushroom left, merely pretty good. Marillion after Fish left, not crazy for, but Misplaced Childhood & Clutching At Straws are excellent.
Mark Olson leaving The Jayhawks after 'Tomorrow the Green Grass' . Even on stage the rest of the members openly discussing how Gary Louris thought things would never be the same.Ranking their albums would be great.
A few that spring to mind ... Fairport Convention minus the irreplaceable lead vocals of Sandy Denny ... Barclay James Harvest who staggered on for two decades after their "heart and soul" founder member Woolly Wolstenholme left .... 10cc on the departure of the creative genius of Kevin Godley and Lol Creme.
The first name I thought of when I saw the episode title was Bill Berry... r.e.m. is maybe my 2nd favorite band ever (behind the beatles), but they were much better when he was around. What people dont mention, or even realize, is how important Bill's vocals were (everyone gushes on and on about Mills), but especially early on, Bill sang a lot. And it's widely acknowledged that he mainly composed the music for tracks like Perfect Circle, Cant get there from here, Everybody hurts, Man on the moon, Tongue, Leave, etc.. I guess his biggest influence was as arranger, because they never sounded as good after he left.
I've sometimes wondered if Berry's departure and R.E.M.'s artistic decline were merely coincidental. (I'm no fan of Monster, for example.) The band had an amazing run from Chronic Town thru AFTP, but nothing perfect lasts forever, right?
Bill Berry was on Monster and New Adventures in Hifi, but he left in 1997 whiilst he toured for New adventures. I'm sure there are some decent songs after Berry left but R.E.M feel like one of those bands where the unity of members is essential. I've heard songs from the albums after he left and they just feel a bit... empty? Like the rest of the band can't adjust to his absence.
@@haroldushawkinsi5804 R.E.M.'s decline, in my view, was partly down to sheer exhaustion; they had maintained a relentless work rate for more than ten years, and the strain began to show. When Berry left, that process was already underway, and it accelerated in his absence. When they chose not to replace him in their official lineup, it was an acknowledgement that he was essentially irreplaceable, and that the band had undergone a fundamental change.
Though they weren't bad Fairport Covention improved when Judy Dyble left and Sandy Denny joined. Then there was a dip in quality after Denny, then Richard Thompson, left. I recently heard something off of a later album, Angel Delight, and I didn't know it was them; I ended up liking it, so not knowing the identity of an artist can wipe away any preconceptions. 10 CC took a dive after Creme and Godley left. I disagree with Joe's opinion about Big Star; I think Radio City is chock full of pop hooks and melodies. I do think Sister Lovers is brilliant, but it's really a Big Star record in name only, so I kinda get his opinion on that. The Pixies, after Kim Deal, has a few ok tunes, but nothing stuck to me.
Surprised no one mentioned the different personnel changes in Fleetwood Mac. On the subject of Alice Cooper, many people thought he lost something when he changed his band between Muscle of Love and Welcome to My Nightmare. The Supremes made some interesting music after Diana Ross left but they still weren't the same. And many people thought Steely Dan became overly formal when they started using session musicians instead of a core band.
Jean Terrell was a great replacement for Diana Ross.
It's weird because it didn't really hurt Fleetwood Mac in the early 70s. But once Lindsey joined in 75 and then left in 87, it was almost impossible to enjoy their music without him. It's one of those "don't understand what you've lost until you've had it" situations.
When Dick Sargent replaced Dick York on Bewitched in 1969. (As told through the song "Dick York" by Fish Karma)
I felt the same way..haha..Didn't know someone wrote a song about it tho!!!..How cool is that. I went and listened to it, made me smile:)
Depeche Mode without Alan Wilder. Not even the singer, but they lost something when he left the band.
Indeed. They've had some good songs since he left (Home, It's No Good, Suffer Well, Wrong, Precious), but they are sadly few and far between, considering that they're spread over a 19 year period
Echo & The Bunnymen were never the same after Pete De Frietas died in a motorcycle accident.
I'm sure many might not agree, but AC/DC after Bon Scott. Brian Johnson certainly has his moments and is about as good of a frontman as you could ask for, but it's still just not the same.
Interesting story....When the popular UA-cam channel Tastes Like Music teased audiences that there would be "no more Joe" , then changed the story to " slight illness, he will be back", rumour has it, original founder and ruthless , self appointed leader of the TLM collective , Jason Reis had planned to oust the popular "man of the people" Joe Steigerwald from the show after heated behind the scenes " creative differences", Even the emotional pleas of mediator and peace negotiator Ryan Kramzer couldn't heal the rift. However, the astute business mind of Reis , sensing a social media backlash and revolt from large factions of the TLM audience, realised that this would be a public relations disaster for the channel and quickly adjusted the initial announcement of Steigerwald's departure , to a "being due to illness " and " don't worry fans , he will be back" media release. Whether the creative differences have been settled between Steigerwald and Reis is unclear , but for the prosperity of the channel an "amicable professional working agreement " was reached between the two. That's the story I heard anyway...so it must be true ( that's how it works these days).
Brilliant
nice will look forward for the next chapter
No more heroes?
The most dramatic change that you mentioned has to be the loss of Jim Morrison. They never should have bothered with the albums they made after he died where the other guys take the vocals.
i have those 2 on vinyl and thought they would be worth something! Boy was i wrong!🐯🐯
Stupid decision to go ahead with the same name..."Manzarek and the Ravens" would have been a such better name.
It would be fine if they stayed together but needed to 1. change the name 2. add a vocalist or become an instrumental-only group. Obviously the commercial appeal of a instrumental group is limited. Should have added a vocalist who would have avoided Jim Morrison comparison. Female choice would have been interesting. They could have been right there at the beginning of the prog wave. Robbie wanted to take them in a jazz direction.
Of course they went ahead and made a choice so monumentally bad that most fans don't even consider Other Voices/Full Circle to be actual Doors albums. They "don't count" is the usual reaction.
I agree with Pink Floyd, but I'm referring to the loss of Syd Barrett
after syd we got dark side, wish you were here, animals, the wall, meddle
Absolutely! They would never again reach the heights of their first singles and Piper.
@@negsterarchive7911 exactly. That's what I'm saying.
@@beetlebum7760 yes! I'm glad there's someone who agrees with me
Pixies have been great live with Paz in recent years but, really, without Kim Deal it's a high end tribute act. No Kim, no deal.
Andy Gill briefly carried on with a Jon King-less Gang Of Four 2.0 in the 2010s - to rough result.
Hawkwind was never the same without Lemmy.
Robert Smith was never the same after 40.
And Kajagoogoo was balls without Limahl. We all think it.
Not a fan of the bob Calvert era hawkwind?
Kind of agree w you on pixies.
Stranglers week was fun. Gave me a chance to revisit some teenage favorites.
As for bands that were not the same, Joe's comedy act is developing nicely. Roxy Music without Eno! lol (Stranded notwithstanding)
I would nominate -
The Saints - reformed without Ed Kuepper. The occasional song, but such a lesser band.
The Band - reformed without the principal songwriter Robbie Robertson. It was a sad way for their legacy to fizzle out.
Suede - not the same without Bernard Butler.
Gang Of Four - Dave Allen left after Solid Gold and without him, they withered.
Public Image Limited - A tossup as to whether Jah Wobble's departure after Metal Box or Keith Levene after Flowers of Romance left them more bereft.
The Pogues - Carried on without Shane MacGown. Not the same.
Gil Scott-Heron - Once he stopped working with Brian Jackson the wheels started to fall off. Some good work post-Jackson but something was missing.
The Rolling Stones - They may have sporadically made some good music in the intervening years but a lot feels like going through the motions post-Brian Jones/Mick Taylor
Can - Nothing worth listening to after Holger Czukay left.
Joe's Eno is the criminal who led David Bowie astray, turned Talking Heads into garbage and ruined the promising career of a young Irish Band named U2. He also cursed the universe with ambient music and kept Robert Fripp from making interesting music. Most wanted villain in the TLM universe. The only good thing about the guy was that he never got near to the holy Rush.
Don’t forget Coldplay. - Joe
@@TastesLikeMusic I cannot forget what I never knew. What is a cold play?
@@roxannewalsh lol
Manic Street Preachers without Richey Edwards
Deep Purple when Gillian and Glover joined the band.
I went through all the comments, and I'm surprised nobody mentioned them (unless I missed it).
King Crimson without John Wetton also lost something that they could never replicate with Tony Levin and Andrew Belew, even though they are fantastic players.
I'd say that KC have changed direction so many times. The first shift was when McDonald, Giles and Lake left. The Fripp-Wetton-Bruford-Muir was both shocking and mesmerising.
@@mariosandri4010 As I see it they were still trying to find a direction in those first four albums (which are all fantastic) but they finally arrived at what Fripp was looking for when Wetton and Bruford joined and that to me is the classic lineup. Whatever came after was cool but nowhere near the same impact. There's just something about John's voice against those haunting harmonies of songs like Fallen Angel and Nightwatch that to me is where KG is at its finest.
Have to 100% agree on Chicago. After Terry died, Chicago lost its way.
I kinda agree, but they were losing their way already and offer Chicago VIII & X as proof... Even XI... The best part of XI was a song they initially recorded for V and discarded, (thought it does show up on Chicago Live in Japan)
@@CrunchyFrog47 I hear what you're saying. Terry had concerns towards the end about where the band was going but I think enough of the classic Chicago remained. After he passed, there was no resemblance.
@@robertharvey2604 The decline had started already with Terry still there but playing less of a role. VII was pretty mellow, VIII was rescued by the fact that it was just a single LP but in hindsight the warning signals were there.
The Band after reforming without Robbie Robertson. Don't mind that they went on without him and I enjoy checking out some later era live stuff on YT but his songwriting was really needed.
In my mind, the fact that the later version of The Band was was so bereft of good songs bolsters Robbie Robertson's claim that he was the guy who wrote nearly everything.
they were never the same but possibly they got better: Vince Clarke left Depeche Mode after the debut album, and DM got much darker. in my opinion (and it's not a popular opinion), Ultravox changed for the worse when John Foxx left, but recruiting Midge Ure brought them commercial success. PiL put out 2 classic albums before losing the guitarist, bassist, and drummer. the following albums were less than... The Specials were never the same after Terry Hall, Neville Staple, and Lynval Golding left. The Fall struck gold when Brix Smith joined on guitar. after she divorced Mark E Smith and left the band, the quality dropped noticeably. Stan Ridgeway left Wall of Voodoo, and the band lost the little traction they had gotten from their one hit, "Mexican Radio." Iron Maiden replaced Bruce Dickinson with Blaze Bayley, and I don't know anyone who praises those 2 albums. similarly, Tim Ripper-Owens presided over flop-era Judas Priest. poor Gary Cherone stepped in after Sammy Hagar left Van Halen and that was a disaster.
So right re Ultravox!(their exclamation mark). I saw them with John Foxx in 1978 and they were tremendous. The Vienna album has it's moments esp Western Promise and did see them on that tour. They were actually pretty good, but after that? No thanks!
Very comprehensive list. I'd add Siouxsie and the Banshees when Budgie and McGeoch joined.
Couldn't agree more on Ultravox!
Budgie is a beast! I think I even like his and Siouxsie's Creatures project more than the Banshees. and McGeoch is great on everything he was involved in. I especially love his guitar work in Magazine.
This might be controversial but I would’ve loved to have seen Bon Scott live. I’ve seen AC/DC several times (my hubby is a huge fan!) but I much prefer Bon Scott’s voice/presence/glint in his eye than Brian Johnson’s. Just not old enough to have seen the original line-up. Bummer.
i put down ac dc , go read my comment and up the 'ammers🐯⚽ PS im def jealous you guys got to see ac/dc . i never saw them!
@@bengalgangster yeah they’re great live, Angus Young is a little maestro but would still have preferred to see Bon Scott.
Up the ‘ammers!! ⚒
Your comment is not controversial at all. I'm in total agreement with you, having seen AC/DC live in 1978 in Cambridge. Bon Scott was and always will be vastly superior to Brian Johnson. It was an unforgettable night for me because I actually touched both(Angus in Bon's shoulders) as they came through the crowd playing, Whole Lotta Rosie 🎸
Yes, I saw them in 1979 at Wembley supporting The Who ... for me he was the essence of AC/DC
@@jesuschambers crikey! So jealous 😆 what a night that must’ve been!
Nancy kicking Roger Fisher to the curb. Those first 4 Heart albums are the best in my opinion.......and you ain't a kidding, Cetera's sap makes my ears bleed!!!
Greetings gazn. Glad you had a chance to hear some Fish Karma. 2 best albums are the mostly acoustic Halloween in America and the post punk gem Theory of Intelligent Design.
Big Star are unique in that all three of their albums are masterpieces in their own ways. The third, especially, is out there on its own. Anyway, in their time, any alleged "decline" was not evident, as their albums went all but unheard until long after the band ceased to exist.
They actually have 4 albums. There was a reunion album in 2005 that nobody ever mentions.
But yeah. Just listen to September Gurls for further proof that they were still great without Chris Bell. One of the greatest unknown songs ever. Radio City is a classic
Chicago, I would argue, were some distance down the soft rock path well before Terry Kath passed on. Exhibit A: "If You Leave Me Now." (Kath himself certainly had his softer moments, too, like "Colour My World.")
Jim Martin was also a heavy loss for FNM, even though I love all their albums, they were never the same without his hard rocker edge. And his awesome hair and sunglasses.
King for A Day Fool for a Lifetime is an underrated masterpiece
@@amanbatra1501 Oh, I totally agree, Trey did an awesome job replacing Jim, but still, he didn't hang around and little by little the guitar became less and less a driving force in the band. I think their sound suffered from it. But yeah, KfaD and AotY are both classics in my book.
Kool & The Gang without singer James Taylor.
Depeche Mode after Alan Wilder left: in my opinion they lost their freshness.
Fleetwood Mac with or without Lindsey Buckingham: a big difference in my opinion.
Pink Floyd after Syd Barrett left: they really were never the same (so it counts).
The Pogues made two forgettable albums without Shane MacGowan.
The Beach Boys without Brian Wilson: they suck a bit.
Duran Duran without guitarist Andy Taylor.
10CC without Godley & Creme.
Nits after Robert-Jan Stips left (luckily he returned later).
Brings me to another topic: bands where a key member left but returned a bunch of records later.
Iron Maiden and Bruce Dickinson pop to mind.
Mick Taylor departing the Stones ... that would be at the top of my list.
Interesting topic, guys. I'll add Gillian Gilbert from New Order to list. 🎹
Allman Brothers Band - Duane Allman
Beach Boys - all 3 Wilson brothers
Eagles - Bernie Leadon and Randy Meisner
When John Cale left the VU they became a very different band, still great but different Also Dio Sabbath, still decent , but a very different band from the Ozzy era.
When Janet Weiss left Sleater-Kinney. I would actually say her last album was not quite the Sleater-Kinney we knew.
Thin Lizzy after Robbo left, good guys joined but wasn't the same.
Butler leaving Suede turned them from world-beaters to just an ordinary britpop band.
Hard disagree on Suede - Oakes is _extraordinary_ - but I understand your point. Butler was a unique animal - even he, himself, has yet to recapture the rare ingenuity of the moment.
Soft Machine after Daevid Allen left.
Soft Machine after Kevin Ayers left.
Soft Machine after Robert Wyatt left.
Soft Machine after Hugh Hopper left.
Soft Machine after Mike Radledge left.
Soft Machine after Elton Dean left.
Soft Machine after Alan Holdsworth left.
Great comment!!!
Sensing a pattern here.........
Echo & The Bunnymen .... Ian McCulloch with Noel Burk, only one album 'Reverberation' though I think it is a decent attempt but fortunately McCulloch would return... Pete De Frietas was also a big miss...
Ultravox ... John Foxx with Midge Ure, the band found fame with the addition of Midge and also releasing one of the absolute classics of the 1980's 'Vienna'... They gained fame but the Foxx era Ultravox will always be my pick...
OMD ... Paul Humphreys (synthesizer/keyboard, occasionally lead vocals & composer) left in 1989, Andy McCluskey would continue the band until 1996 then called it a day... The original line up would reform in 2006 and to the best of my knowledge McCluskey & Humphreys are still going strong and for someone in his early 60's Andy sounds just the same as in his heyday....
The Specials ... after the departure of Terry Hall, Neville Staple & Lynval Golding, they would go on to form Fun Boy Three and record one of my all timers "The Lunatics (Have Taken Over the Asylum)" , I don't know if it's true but I read many moons ago that 'The Lunatics' would have been the next potential Specials single if Terry Hall had stayed...
Systems Of Romance & HA HA HA ! Both Classic albums 👌
@@davidellis5141 Got to agree...
Nice!
The Pretenders after James Honeyman-Scott died and Pete Farndon was sacked and then died. The Undertones without Feargal Sharkey as lead singer. The Cosmic Rough Riders after singer Daniel Wylie left. New Order, while still likeable, were never the same after Peter Hook left/was dropped.
Midlake have also never reached their Tim Smith-era highs since he left
Undertones without Sharkey? Was that not "That Petrol Emotion"?
Unless you mean the 2003 reunion - in this case...nobody had heard Sharkey sing since 1991, so it is hard to tell how they would have sounded with him.
New Order without Hook was a change for sure.
@@roxannewalsh There were two albums after 2003 with Paul McLoone as the singer - no comparison to Sharkey's unique voice
The Undertones are still great live😊
The case of Genesis was interesting, because even though they were indeed not the same after Gabriel, then Hackett left, sometimes splitting off is for the better for all parties. Gabriel's solo career thrived while Hackett maintained a modest following, to say nothing about the bangers Genesis also released in the 80s though the 70s remain superior.
I actually like and defend a lot of Weezer’s post Pinkerton work but there’s no denying Matt Sharp leaving had an effect.
I think Bill Berry was the band's main rock influence. If I had to guess.
And Peter Buck
Maiden after Di'Anno, Clash after Headon, Who after Keith, Stones after Jones and again after Taylor, Ramones after Dee Dee, Metallica after Cliff, Bowie after Ronson, Cure after Tolhurst, Pixies after Kim, Sabbath after Ozzy.
Dokken after George Lynch left the band! However, what was impressive was that the replacement guitarist they chose were really awesome! Reb Beach of Winger, John Norum of Europe. Their current guitarist since 2003 Jon Levin is really awesome and fans of Dokken really love him a lot!
Dokken after Don's voice left.
Joe mentioned Genesis, but the obvious one is, the band after Phil Collins left. No one, including the band itself, liked the Genesis of Calling all Stations.
Jane's Addiction after Eric Avery (bass).
Kiss after Ace. You'd never catch him writing soppy ballads!
Skynnyrd is the first band that came to mind.
Also the Stones after Taylor left.
The Band w/o Robertson; the Clash w/o Jones.
I do think Keith Moon may be one of the biggest loses to a band ever. After Bonzo. But LZ did the right thing then.
With the Stones I would probably say Wyman. Up until his departure they still released solid stuff, although the quality suffered towards the end of that period.
The Bangles after Michael Steele left. That's probably another group to add to the list.
yep
10000 Maniacs without Natalie. Also, even the Archie's themselves had to admit "we ain't the Archie's without the Jughead beat..."
why did 10K even try without her??
I thought I was a pretty good Aerosmith fan, but I didn’t know that they did an album without Joe Perry (and Brad Whitford)
It's actually not a bad album imo.
This might be a controversial opinion, but Squidward's marching band was better off after he left as conductor. Their performance at the bubble bowl was one for the ages
Joe Walsh leaving James Gang, Robin Trower without James Dewar, Little Feat after Lowell George died.
My man Kram is a true malcontent. I love you guys. Keep pushing beloved
- The Wailers were a vocal trio with Marley, Peter Tosh and Neville Livingstone until 1975. Tosh and Livingstone (aka Bunny Wailer) left and Marley promoted the backing band to be "Wailers" from that time on.
- Santana after Michael Shrieve left. Very astonishing to hear that in a band with so many percussionists it is the drummer who plays a lead role...but Shrieve was all the dynamics and even the "rock" in the band. I only ever understood it when experiencing the music of Fela Kuti and his "lead drummer" Tony Allen.
i almost put santana down for greg and neil leaving🐯
With Bengal on this one. - Joe
@@bengalgangster Given the incredible garbage those two produced after leaving Santana, I am happy to laugh with you on the best joke made here since long.
Shrieve however was involved in some really good projects after Santana.
@@roxannewalsh ouch!!
@@bengalgangster 😬
I'm still waiting for you guys to rank the albums of Eloy!!
I’d have to say The Moody Blues after Denny Lane and Clint Warwick left the band. The Moody Blues were a bluesy band and some what pop. I haven’t heard there stuff after Denny Lane and Clint Warwick because I don’t know what to expect. Denny Lane’s a really great singer and put a lot of the soul into the band. I know this is more than likely an unpopular opinion.
Invisible Tutch is a killer album!!!
It is if you add the two B sides. Tonight, Tonight, Tonight might be their best song ever.
@@Chaz4543 In to deep is a killer ballad!
Big Star's 3 original albums are all pretty universally praised, but I'd argue Chris Bell leaving after the debut was the beginning of a major downfall. He was clearly the leader that crafted the pop perfection that is Number 1 Record. They did not last long without him, and Bell's early demise is a tragic case of what could have been.
Much of Big Star's downfall had as much to do with lousy label support as anything else. Check out the documentary, Nothing Can Hurt Me; it's amazing that the filmmakers were able to make a compelling documentary with virtually no live footage of the band.
They didnt last long because the record label was horrible at promotion.i love chris bell but if tge reason big star didnt last long wirhout him,why didnt his solo career go anywhere after he left!!
@@peterpellechia5985 Both Bell and Chilton suffered from depression. Bell did manage to record some great stuff before his untimely death. Chilton seemd to get out of his depression, following his own eccentric path as a producer and musician. I got to see the reconstituted Big Star just a few months before Chilton's death. He was beaming, and obviously moved by the audience reaction.
@@johnlefsky8731 i saw their last show in brooklyn a few months before he died.loved alex and chris.chris recorded great music but none of it sold which is beyond belief
@@peterpellechia5985 That's where I saw them, too. There was a beautiful Big Star tribute in Central Park in 2013. Mike Mills, Kurt Vile, Sharon Van Etten, Chris Stamey, Jody Stephens, among others, played. There was even a string section led by the wonderful cellist Jane Scarpantoni.
Big Brother and the Holding Company could never sound quite the same without lead vocalist Janis Joplin, who left to go solo in late 1968. Joplin's voice was unique and irreplaceable.
Nick Gravenites surely did not sound like Janis (even though he had written Burried Alive in the Blues for her Pearl album). It does not mean that their 1970 Be a Brother album was not far better than anything they had recorded with Janis.
@@roxannewalsh
Point taken. As frodofraggins noted elsewhere in these comments, "not the same" and "not as good" are two different criteria. I was simply observing that there was and can only be one Janis Joplin.
Bad Company without Paul Rodgers. Everything Bad Company released after Rough Diamonds in 1982 sounds like a completely different band.
The Stones without Mick Taylor, then (twenty years later) without Bill Wyman. Hard to imagine them without Charlie, too.
Without Brian Jones for that matter . . that was my favorite Stones era when Brian was w the band
@@NaughtyVampireGod The one mitigating factor there is that Jones' role in the band had shrunk to almost nothing by 1969, but they kept making great records. He barely played on Beggars Banquet, for example.
My big one is Pink Floyd. They were never bad when Roger Waters left but, in my eyes, they never met the same heights that the band used to. Division Bell is fire tho.
The Yoko Ono band after Yoko Ono was thrown out. The only reason the quality didn’t suffer is that it couldn’t get any worse.
Is there another part to this? Journey after Steve Perry left for sure.
Do you guys like Van der Graaf Generator?
I sure do, but the line-up has almost remained the same.
While I dont think the first one that came to mind is totally a negative, it definitely signaled a change for the band and that's Bob Stinson leaving The Replacements. I love Pleased To Meet Me and some songs after that but the band was definitely different.
The other that immediately came to mind was Chris Bell leaving Big Star like Joe mentioned. While I like the albums after a lot (aside from, of course, In Space) nothing quite matched the magic of #1 Record.
I think Radio City is a raw, near masterpiece. Took me a while to appreciate 3rd, but I love it also.
Slim Dunlap is a fine guitarist but wasn't ever great with The Replacements in the way Bob Stinson was. Bob played on 7 songs on Pleased to Meet Me and many more that were cut from that record and Slim played on none.
On Pleased to Meet Me "Never Mind" was an angry kiss-off to Bob Stinson ("All over but the shouting/It's just a waste of time"). I think the producer's son, Luther Dickerson, was only 14 yrs and played on Never Mind and "Shooting Dirty Pool" and Valentine and Red Red wine. After Dickinson showed up at the recording studio wearing aftershave, Westerberg added the line To Shooting Dirty Pool “You’re the coolest guy I ever have smelled” about Luther. Paul himself played lead on "Alex Chilton"
Slim Dunlap didn't join the band until after the album was recorded. I like "{Don't Tell a Soul" more than most fans but sure it misses Bob but Paul wanted to get rid of "goop" or really Bob's noise. But every song is good with no throwaways.
Bob Stinson finest work: the guitar at the end of Sixteen Blue. His live playing at 7th Street Entry on Johnny's Gonna Die and Bastards of Young .. of course much more. Seems such an important guitarist should have a list of his leads but this is not to be found and it could be "dirty pool".
@@oppothumbs1 so Bob Stinson was in Ardent Studios with the band at the time of the recording of Pleased To Meet Me? Maybe I misunderstood your comment.
My only entry to not the same is Billy Joel's band after he let go Stegmeyer, Javors, and Brown in 1988... I even prefer Canata to Rivera but he left in '81
Wilco became more like a softer Sonic Youth after Jay Bennett left. They lost all that Brian Wilson/Paul McCartney sugary power pop feel, went full on experimental, and then kind of mellowed out. Not worse, but different.
Sammy Hagar joining Van Halen after David Lee Roth.
For me it's not that much to do with the voice of Sammy Hagar. I like Sammy Hagar as a singer even to this day. He will soon be out with a new album called "Crazy Times" as Sammy Hagar & The Circle for the interested out there.
The problem for me was more the times of late 1980's and early 1990's and the direction the band went. I like songs on all the albums but also feel the productions could been much better, the songwriting was hit or miss and Eddie Van Halen (EVH) as great as he was not having anyone to challenge him. David Lee Roth might be a guy hard to get along with but he had a clear vision and could stand up to EVH. Sammy Hagar is as easy going as anyone can get. That's very cool in most cases but someone like Eddie Van Halen needs just voice to tell him "Really? That's it?" if something isn't up to par. Quite much on 5150, OU812, F.U.C.K and Balance isn't up to par. I think the band could done many songs better. Sammy Hagar was just having a good time and accepted anything EVH did. I think the quality on many songs suffered beccause of it.
Sammy Hagar has done lots of material and while a spotty catalog there is really good stuff to be found. "Street Machine" from 1979 is a really fun and good rock album. Nothing fancy just good stuff. Standing Hampton (1982) is more of a AOR-album but still very solid. I like Sammy quite a bit but ranking Van Halen songs and/or albums. Much by "Van Hagar" will rank lower than the classic line-up for me.
nice didnt know the circle had a new 1 coming out🐯
The entire Zappa discography may be too much for you guys to get through, but I’d at least recommend that you guys cover The Mothers’ albums. Even their live albums are unique in that they mainly have songs not heard elsewhere.
Was prepared to hate "Drama" when it came out, but I consider it top notch. I do agree that the last several Yes albums without Anderson don't sound very good though. I listened to Supertramp's "Brother Where You Bound" a lot when it came out, thought it was better than I do now, though there are some decent tracks on it - the title track is great IMHO. The stuff they did afterwards was pretty poor. Chicago took two hits IMHO, the loss of Kath then the loss of Cetera. That said, I quite liked their first post-Kath album "Hot Streets" and would agree that the last couple with Cetera was pretty bland. The Pogues aren't the Pogues without Shane MacGowan.
Wall Of Voodoo decided to do two albums after Vocalist Stan Ridgway departed & they were disasters.
Mott without Hunter. However I love the Shouting And Pointing album for what it is, a fine 70s rock record. Dr Feelgood were never the same after Wilko left, their biggest hit Milk And Alcohol written by Nick Lowe. Pretty sure they're still touring with NO original members!
While I agree that Dr Feelgood changed after Wilko left (he joined Ian Dury for Laughter), I would not say it went downhill. Rather, they had done more or less everything possible with that line-up and needed some new blood...Milk and Alcohol featured Gypie Mayo who also co-wrote it. And the Mayo-era albums are very good as well. Wilko's solo stuff is solid as well, his late collaboration with Who's Roger Daltrey was a career highlight for both of them.
@@roxannewalsh Definitely lost some edge when Wilko left though.
I’m a much bigger fan of the era of Dire Straits that had Pick Withers as the drummer . Once he left , they didn’t rock as hard , and became much more commercially oriented .
I feel exactly the same way about Jethro Tull after Barriemore Barlow left the drum kit , although I still like A , Broadsword & the Beast , Crest of a Knave , and Roots to Branches quite a bit . Let’s not even discuss the departure of Martin Barre ( who I saw a couple of months ago with his band , and they were great , including Tull’s original drummer , Clive Bunker )
Cheers !
Sometime after broadsword Ian's voice changed. Not for the better . .
@@NaughtyVampireGod Yes , apparently he damaged his vocal chords on the Under Wraps Tour , and it was never the same after that .
@@johnw706 exactly
Stones after Mick Taylor
Clash after Mick Jones
...Oasis after Bonehead 😀
The Stones after Mick Taylor is a good choice. I've always felt his departure marked the dividing line between "classic Stones" (everything up to 1974) and "merely very good Stones" (everything after '74).
agree with you and whammy ! mick taylor stones my fav for sure!
"Not the same" and "Not as good" are two very different takes imo. So, Genesis were certainly not the same but I think they were better when they lost Gabriel. They were tighter and more melodic. Although they eventually became an extended Phil Collins band.
Black Sabbath's heyday was with Ozzie, but I prefer Dio's albums with them. So I'd label it as "not the same".
I think Floyd got better after Waters left as "The Final Cut" sounded like songs from the Wall that didn't make the cut. Waters early solo albums needed Gilmour more than AMLOR and TDB needed Roger. Roger was just too limited melodically but he was bailed out by Jeff Beck and others on Amused to Death which was very solid.
You’re take on Pink Floyd is spot on. I’d rank Amused to Death slightly above The Division Bell and A Momentary Lapse of Reason, but I would rank both of those albums fairly easily above The Final Cut and any Roger Waters solo album other than Amused to Death.
Would’ve been interesting to see a Side 3 about ‘bad boys’….
The Stranglers
Bad Brains
Slayer
The Killers
Fine Young Cannibals
Fun Loving Criminals
For better or worse, Fleetwood Mac were never the same after Peter Green and Jeremy Spencer left.
Rem - Bill Berry. End of story. Crowded House - Paul Hester - ditto.
Little Feat +/- Lowell George ... I would enjoy you guys listographe LF..
Battles - my interest in the group plummeted when Tyondai Braxton left the group after 1 album and I’ve just never liked any of their stuff since.
Can you please review echo and the bunneymen
The Doors without Jim tops the list.
Genesis without Peter. For those fans that don't agree we just don't agree. Trick and Wind are as you stated very good albums. They are not 5 star lps. From Nursery Cryme through The Lamb, 5 star lps ( and then some). The Lamb is arguably the best prog album ever. What would they they done next ?
A Trick..is their last great album.
I'd say little feat - George lowell is a big one. Fairport convention (either sandy denny or Richard Thompson). For the eagles I'd say beanie leadon as I think he was one of the most important members and the band changed for the worse when he left imo. With the byrds I'd go for Gene clark, emphasis turned further away from songwriting and more on effects which is still good. Suede without Bernard butler are not the same band.
I'm glad you stood up to the Genesis comments. Trick of The Tail, Wind and Wuthering, Duke and even and We Can't Dance had awesome proggy poppy weirdness that hits the sweet spot for me. Abacab, ST, and Invisible Touch are pure pop, but they do it well.
I disagree with kramzer about Yes, Drama is a great album.
Joe,you are dead wrong about big star!!!
Radio City is good but sloppy as hell. Third / Sister Wives is trash. - Joe
@@TastesLikeMusic couldnt disagree more!
@@TastesLikeMusic Sister Lovers is brilliant, but it's really a Big Star album in name only. It's the sound of a fractured mind. Holocaust, Kangeroo, Nightime, among others, are beautiful. As far as Radio City being sloppy, that's fine. Some of my favorite music sounds like the musicians are teetering on the edge of a cliff. I love good production/arrangements as much as anyone, but I like chaos and danger too.
Santana without Gregg rolie never the same
and neil and michael
Journey too
Not sure if anyone here is an Our Lady Peace fan, but their 1st four albums are pretty darn good. Then guitarist Michael Turner left the band and they were never quite the same (although their next album Gravity was probably their biggest seller).
Gravity did suck. Though I assumed it was because Maida tried to go more mainstream and boring but I’m sure losing the guitarist also contributed. - Joe
@@TastesLikeMusic I think it’s why Turner left, he didn’t want to go full mainstream. A real shame they couldn’t figure it out.
I just thought of another.. I never cared much for Duran Duran after Andy Taylor left in 1985...
No Layne, No Chains