This Would Change NBA History
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- Опубліковано 27 вер 2024
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I think that Steph is special because he has a pretty unique scenario. He's shown that he can be a dominant second option, a dominant first option, and arguably an even more dominant off-ball player while also revolutionizing the game. I'm by no means a warriors fan (roll knicks), but my utmost respect goes to that organization and how they've grown steph to be the core
Boy you wish steph was on the knicks in the draft.
@@ajanalysis7742 you're damn right i do
but that being said, knowing the knicks he wouldn't be the same player that he is today lmao
@@AceTyper the knicks will always be the knicks so knowing them they trade after a couple ankle injuries maybe even refuse to extend him after the first 2
Completly agree
His presence on the court is just affecting the game
the closer he gets to the three point line the tighter gets the opponents defense
I dont think there is any player that get doubled as much as him in his 5 finals run. Except maybe Jordan and Shaq and they were special in theyre own ways too
It was Dirk's entire playoff run, not specifically the finals, that was so special. his series against the lakers and thunder were the truly legendary performances. In the finals he wasn't AS good as the previous two series, but still definitely the fmvp
The Mavs swept the Lakers who were the reigning champs during that run and yet people dare to say it was a team full of scrubs
Dirk looked like Jesus in Dallas jersey in that run.
Thats why its finals MVP and not playoffs MVP
@@MrVlodato that's why it's most valuable and not statistical best.
@@MrVlodato His comment is in response to something that was said in the video
highest quality sports content on the internet, makes the "media" look silly in comparison. love you jimmy
Watch @Thinking Basketball. Their content is super interesting and enjoyable, and really high-quality stuff too. Them and this account are my two favorite basketball accounts
jj reddick is the only bit of basketball media that's an exception but otherwise its a bunch of clowns
Faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaacts
The media is “silly” aka trash regardless
It doesn't.. but he makes good videos.. not tryna put a penis on a pedestal after putting pussy on pedastals my whole life
Who else is back after Curry Finally won His 1st FMVP?
Lol, who shouldve got it in , 18 and 15, the NBA probably just thought after bullying him that much they should just give him it
@@prodoz1428 Not 2017 when durant won. He has higher ppg, assists and rebounds and a lot more over curry. Being a die hard curry fan, its nothing but the facts which is why everyone said dubnation would never win without durant. Yet here we are in 2022. The 2015 Iguodala mvp was a robbery when curry had the highest stats over him.
me...
@@joeboom2470 ok KD fan boy
@@joeboom2470 he has a roblox pfp no use debating w/ facts
As a non biased Bucks fan, Giannis’ performance in the Finals was legendary! From coming back after that horrendous looking injury, to the big game defining moments, and the 50 piece! He was spectacular and real NBA fans will agree. Props for bringing his performance up.
Are you non-biased because you say you’re non-biased? 😂
I agree. Giannis had a legendary finals last year. Not to mention the second most clutch block I’ve seen in the finals
@@TheKL04 well hes not wrong. From the bulls fan
Why do you have to say you're non-biased? You don't say it, you show it. You're like you're in denial lmao
@@TheKL04 He's saying that he roots for the Bucks, regardless of how good they are. If Giannis didn't have a legendary Finals performance, he wouldn't acknowledge it as legendary.
The biggest thing I get from consistently watching Jxmy's videos is just how dominant MJ truly was. He's basically at the top of every freakin' stat. And, just behind him, is LeBron. Almost every time.
In this scenario Bron has 7 and MJ has 5…
@@swagconundrum 1. You missed in my comment where I said "basically", not "literally all". And the part where I said this was after watching tons of his videos, not solely focusing on just this one in particular.
2. You left out the other stats *in this video* where MJ was on top, JUST so you can focus on the one where MJ lost.
@@matt0198922 This is basically why the GOAT debate ends up coming down to the difference in Finals records for many of the people that have Jordan. Despite what LeBron fans will try to say, it was never the ONLY reason or even the main reason. It's the cherry on top. For all of LeBron's individual greatness, it didn't have the impact on winning titles the way Jordan's greatness did for his teams. Trying to use LeBron's opponents being better is a lazy excuse because I see no reason why LeBron's teams couldn't be as good or better. He's had enough help to achieve that despite what his fans will have you think.
@@shovellware h o w
@@davidmartinez52420 He didn't have enough help Jordan had more help, not only from his teammates, but from the refs too.
Had a lil chuckle 9:22 “Kobe Bryant” when talking Kawhi vs Steph. Awesome video had to share with so many of my basketball friends. Legendary
9:10 imagine Kobe against curry. Never seen a visual error like this on the channel. Mad how consistent jimmy is.
Never knew Kobe played with the raptors and had the same hairline as kawhi you learn knew things by jimmy all the time
@@iliketurtles7782 Damn, I wish kobe played for the raptors instead of dropping 81 on them
There has been a few but I am sure its hard to catch them all
I actually didn’t notice this until you pointed it out lol
Yeah I was a bit confused when I saw that lol but it goes to show we aren't perfect 🤷♂
Giannis’s Finals MVP would carry more weight if they factored “overcoming weakness” as a actual stat. Knocking down all those free throws speaks volumes.
Lets not forget the hyperextended knee
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Finally its here .
Man fuck allat 😭 they shouldnt have made it to the finals to begin with neither should have the Suns shit was luck for both teams making it bc of injuries
@@TeeWhy073 1. You face who is in front of you. 2. The Nets were healthy this year, but they got swept by the Celtics. The same Celtics who Giannis alone took to 7 games. 3. We could argue that if Middleton wasn’t injured this year that the Bucks would’ve made the finals again. Who on the Warriors is stopping Giannis? They have no size. Giannis would avg 40 in a series against GSW, and with how inconsistent the Warriors are I feel like the Bucks would’ve had a damn good chance to win if they made it again. Once again, you just have to play who is in front of you.
@@TeeWhy073 Giannis still had an all time great series, regardless of whether you think the teams deserved to be there or not.
With my series on this topic, I’ve had to think about this a LOT. Was cool to hear your thoughts on it, and hey, and choices are nearly identical! Haha. Keep doing your thing, Jxmy. You set the standard for the rest of us
Saw that series! 100% would recomend
I saw the start and thought “Oh snap Jonny already did this!” But you’re both great so let’s goooi
That was an awesome series, some of your best work!
@@JxmyHighroller hi
@@JxmyHighroller been watching for more than 4 years
5:40 I too used to wonder why Dirk’s performance felt so good. One thing this model doesn’t capture understandably, but it’s significant and I think illuminates that je ne sais quoi Dirk had going: look at the points per game spread intra team. It was a low-ish scoring finals. Dirk’s % of team points allocation all series was tremendous. Never a night off. I mean look at game 3. Dirk shot 52% for a double double game high 36. Of the starters, a single player had double digit points. Technically Shawn had 10. But you get my point. He accounted for 42% of the teams points. Dirk didn’t have a Wade or Bosh. Jason Terry went off twice. But Dirk was efficient night in, night out. Eating clock, making shots count against a formidable big 3. It worked. And his play style was 100% the game changer.
You are blinded bro. If you talk about 2011 finals, noo sorry, but Dirk wasn't efficient 🤣🤣🤣he was totally the opposite, he was very inefficient player in those series and had 41,6% from the field which definitely isn't soo good. He averaged 26 points while Wade averaged 26,5 points on miles better 54,6% feom the field, more assists, more steals and more blocks than Dirk. Wade played one of the most complete finals ever those series and he was very, very efficient while doing that.
@@hristijandimitrovski8664 true that’s why wade won right :)
@@hristijandimitrovski8664 imagine how many open looks dirk would get playing alongside lebron james at his prime.
@@ienjoyrice nothing 🤣🤣🤣because in those series Lebron didn't helped Wade to score those points, he alone made those drives and those mid-range shots, Lebron was terrible in those finals so stop mentioning him, in those series Lebron wasn't Lebron. Dirk missef in those finale shots that he usually makes, again Wade was much more dominamt than Dirk on both sides on the floor. Dirk never even thought about playing defense, Wade blocked even their center who was much, much higher than him.
@@hristijandimitrovski8664 wade still lost. You typed that whole essay and they were losers.
The 2011 finals shows us why the mvp can't just be a matter of crunching numbers. Dirk Nowitzki led his team to victory against a stronger team. He was the heart and soul of that team, and undoubtedly their best player. And Dwyane's mvp score almost doubles that of Dirk's. Numbers mean nothing if your team doesn't win.
It might mean you were a better player that lost to a better team.
@@grega3611 Even then it's a useless effort. This award isn't for the best player, it's for the most valuable. You have the most value when you contribute decisively to victory. If you lose, you might the best in terms of numbers, but you're certainly not the most valuable because there's no value in defeat.
Bro goated comment
@@bruno3 good point
@@bruno3 Put prime MJ with literal newborns and have him play a decent college team. Which team wins? Would you really say one of those college kids is a more valuable player than MJ or is it simply that his value, though HIGHER THAN EVERYONE ELSE, isn't high enough to make up for his teammates lack of value?
While I 100% agree than the intangibles that can't be put on paper make Dirk deserving of the fmvp, in a TEAM sport, TEAM victories and losses don't determine INDIVIDUAL value. The performance of the individual determines their value.
I really love how you take these topics and bust them wide open. Anytime I see you put out a new video I know that you're going to subvert expectations and give us a new outlook on something that is much more than meets the eye. Amazing work regarding the Finals MVP.
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Finally its here .
Pause
The finals MVP trophy died on 2015, and until Steph wins it, the trophy will be relevant again!
@@MediumCoast LMAOOO NAHHH
His videos are full of flaws. In this case it starts at 0:00, where he conveniently merges MJs 1995 comeback and his 1996 season one year later for dramatization. He's not legit.
The under appreciation for what Giannis does is infuriating. Even in the games against the Celtics where they lost, Giannis was the best player. If Middleton was playing, Celtics would have never won.
We don't know that
@@cristophermariano6437 yes we do.. If you actually watched the game. Middleton was the deciding factor. His size and shooting coupled with the fact that giannis could actually rest while middleton is on the floor. Makes a huge difference. Even without his number 2..giannis took it to 7 games.. That is proof enough. Celtics are a good team. But they are playing immaturely. Just like giannis was before they won their first championship.
The only proof we need is the fact he took the Celtics to seven games...if middleton was even in just one game...it would be a different story...(
@@wilbronendege5273 exactly
@@wilbronendege5273 the celtics suck ass. i swear ppl complained about the lakers and lebron vs "easy" heat. this team his ass and has both star players playign like a benching given 30 minutes and a green light
I know you’ve already put the asterisk that there are other factors than just the numbers that go into deciding the finals MVP. But specifically in the Steph / KD situation it’s so much more important, Steph is the arguably most unselfish star in the NBA, and when you rewatch the games you’ll see that KD could only put up those numbers and win those games cause of Steph’s magnetism of defenders opening up unbelievable spaces for KD. Steph sacrificed his numbers so another star can shine, he won rings for it but is always discredited because of it. Remember when KD left and Klay was injured and Steph was dropping James-Harden-in-Rockets-prime kind numbers? Steph can do so much more but he’s part of a system especially with Kerr’s impact on his minutes, it’s both a blessing and a curse. Still the best naturally gifted player in my books by a mile - man was born to play basketball yes!
Dam son you hit tat nail on the head
one of the best takes i’ve ever seen
@@kannaachockalingam5433 possibly one of the greatest stories ever told
further proof to this is the current Nets
i mean, yes, but curry playing the way he did allowing kd to put up ridiculous numbers means that kd is still the mvp, while curry supplemented his play.
I think the stats don't show how good was Dirk in 2011 because his legendary run wasn't because the numbers were insane, it was because he beat eight first ballot hall of famers in a championship run.
But did he do it or his team?
@@iPeriodBlood he led his team to do it
@@fredrickmazeli8340 Exactly. Who else on the Mavs deserved that award?
You’re misunderstanding, the best player in the finals was Wade that series. But Dirk was really good in that whole run, and the numbers show that, but they also show that Wade was better than him in the series
Imagine if LeBron didn't choke.
It would be interesting to see the stats just on the games won, because that's what creates the MVP perception, that's probably why Igudala won it.
Curry didn't win it because he had a bad game in 2015 finals where they lost which gave the perception that he choked. And Iggy got it for defending lebron I guess. People forget though that steph scored 37 points to win game 5. He was clearly better than Iggy.
@@AQGOAT24 yes curry should have gotten the finals MVP award over Andre that year, 100%… but he has a chance this year in 2022 so let’s see how it goes
Nah, Curry played better than Iguodala even on the games they won. Iggy was just voted because he almost triples his stats in the finals, which is an insane improvement but still not close to what Steph did.
One significant impact of Steph's game isn't fully represented in his stats: That's his gravity.
His gravity was also one of the big reasons why KD could perform as well as he did in the 2017 and 2018 finals. I think if you want to compare Steph with other players you would also have to consider this. Since his gravity is one of his most impactful traits as a great player.
Gravity is represented in some form in BPM
@@KINGJERMARCUS (X) doubt
Some stats/pros that Steph would score high in but are not easily measured:
1. How a player stretches the other team defense. It's said all the time that when he is on the ball being double teamed he is VERY happy to unselfishly pass the ball to the open guy. But additionally when Steph is on the court everybody has to RUNNNNN and stay running. (BTW This is one of the disadvantages of iso-basketball teams and ball hog superstars - the defending team doesn't have to run. They have time to think.)
One of the reasons the warriors beat teams in 3rd and 4th quarters is because the opponents are gassed during crunch time. And one of the reasons the warriors are deadly in transition is because you are running from the time Steph crosses half court. Harder to coordinate the defense plan.
2. Ability for teammates to be themselves. With Steph on the court there is no pressure if you try your thing and fail. He is by far the most team friendly superstar in the modern game. This plays out for small positives during a single game but for very big franchise benefits over time. Combined with Kerr's coaching style players are able to find themselves and their true form during the season when playing with the warriors... by the time the play offs arrives the whole Golden State roster can feel like a threat.
3. Score quickly. I don't see much people talking about this but Steph has a habit of scoring in bursts. Nothing seems to deflate another side as when Steph goes on runs of raining 3's. This is his version of "clutch"
The greatest off ball player in NBA history ?
@@Cafetero_ Sure is!
Aside from what the numbers show, i think we also need to consider how the opposing teams deal with the other players... I mean it's not really easy to drop 30 getting harassed and double teamed all the time
that what he did but lost in the play in :,(
@@brianventura1425 Who lost in the play -in?
@@AM-dd6dx you're clearly trolling. What does last year gotta do with this year?
That happens to every superstar stop meatriding Stephanie curry 😂😂😂
Today's fact: While robotics is one of the fields that scientists are focusing on now, Leonardo Da Vinci sketched the plans to build a robot way back in 1495.
U fast
Source?
bro nobody cares
fr
W bot
Giannis having the second highest FMVP score in the last 37 years is GOATED. He was that guy by far in that finals.
I agree. My only "problem" is the stupidity of the Suns matching Giannis and Deandre Ayton 1on1. When Giannis is on the court, you build a wall. Very simple. It might work, it might not. But to leave Giannis 1on1 with Deandre Ayton the whole series is probably the worst coaching I've seen in my life. I'll never use that against Giannis but when I think of that series, first I think of his greatness then I think of how stupid the Suns were
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Finally its here .
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Finally its here .
I’d love to see Giannis keep this up. If he can he’ll enter the goat discussion within the next 5 years.
Let’s not forget that he came off of a hyperextended knee to start the series
Giannis is way too underrated it’s crazy he averaged 35 13 and 5 in the finals and probably got better this year. By far the best player in the league in terms and current form and consistency.
Giannis isn’t underrated 💀
Yeah he is not underrated lol everyone knows Giannis is a beast
Giannis has the most heart in the league he never gives up
“Yes, I need a 50 piece chicky nuggie meal, not 49 piece, not 51 piece, 50, FIFTY piece, and a lemonade please” ~Giannis “The Greek Freak” Antetokounmpo
@@igrojikku2212 I mean everyone likes chicky nuggies right
Your prediction was close about the Celtics winning like a month ago, but warriors just took it, let’s go.
Nahh it was the numbers that pointed it out. Celtics couldve had won it if it was all stats
Celtics lost because of turnovers .
celtics threw a couple games this series and at times did not have an answer for the warriors' offense. They looked lost on offense at times and really couldn't get tatum going. Warriors played better ball but one small play can change the outcome of the whole series. word to bron
I think it is because experience was not a factor in that prediction. Experience is a random variable in calculations so when compared to the warriors who lived in the finals, the current celtics are practically nobodies.
@@bighuncho5210 They have turnovers because Warriors actually played defense 🤡 stop the excuses 🤡🤡
I'm not gonna lie, at 9:18 Kobe looks very different than what I'm used to seeing. Didn't know he played for the Raptors.
It doesn't matter we all know that all "BLACK" people look alike so..💯🤣
@@herbmes ?
@@herbmescome again
Jesus Shuttlesworth.
Facts. Although I'm a Spurs fan, I'm a big Ray Allen fan, also have his autobiography. Big fan of him. Great guy.
and he was more than just a fuckin shooter the most disrespected legend by the nba his own team and fans
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Ray Allen saved lebron legacy
Wwe is realer than the NBA. Just so you know the Lakers bucks and warriors all won there championship in 6 in the last 3 years. Btw this the day before game 6 and I guarantee warriors win
Steph curry had one of the greatest Finals performances against one of the best defense ever assembled. Truly remarkable and he surely deserves his first FMVP.
bro are u sped, im a warriors fan and boston is no where near one of the best defences ever assembled
Giannis, a hobbled Jimmy Butler, and now Steph Curry have been giving that defense buckets this playoffs. The only one they managed to slow down was Durant.
@@travistchokotieu7915 I mean, if you believe the stats then yes they are
Na he just shoots can't guard a chair and is loaded .
@@travistchokotieu7915 sped lol
The problem with result base analysis like these is the fact that it does not take into account the defensive tactic. A lot of great players don't have great numbers because the defensive team will focus more attention on them because they are that great.
Remember when Steph was double the whole game, and he just decided to stand in the home court so that his team can 4 v 3 them. If you use result base analysis like this you will think Steph had no impact on the game. But the factthat he drew 2 players to him is more valuable than any of these metrix .
and the problem with this is it doesn't fully take into account the minute details that nbody ever sees. Like how Lebron is a team player MORE so than a scorer. If he was an outright scorer. He'd have more rings and mvps. But he's not that selfish.
@@catedoge3206 disagree. if lebron was more of a scorer it does not equate to him winning more. He has those accomplishments BECAUSE he is a team player. If he was more of a scorer he wouldn’t average the same assists or have the same PER etc and he wouldn’t elevate his team like he’s done in the past by being more selfish
@@catedoge3206 also this wouldn’t even make lebron more valuable at all, all it changes is his scoring at the end of the day. OP explained it well
Steph doesn't get doubled by just standing. He only gets doubled when he's putting in a ton of work running around and getting a bunch of screens.
@@catedoge3206 sounds like you're confusing his last 3 years with his whole career
Man I started following you recently, but I can 100% confirm that every video you make is top tier because of the choice of argument, use of words, stunning amount of work behind each stat you do analyze. I hope you'll keep making masterpieces like these for long, and you really deserve all the love and respect you're receiving
I'll never get to see Kobe talk about basketball again. All of the insight from someone who put in tens of thousands of hours into the game, true blood, sweat and tears. People forget how he had to comeback from a career ending injury, reinvent his game and still win rings.
You are missed.
who was that guy
KD's NBA finals performances are criminally underrated
but steph made it possible tho
Dirk would have won the award either way. His stats may not show his dominance, but his presence on the court and contribution to the Dallas Mavericks was more than numbers. He did not have any real help going into the playoffs but showed 110% of his effort to push his team forward. If he had lost the finals, it would have nothing to do with playing bad.
Dirk wouldn’t have won MVP if Dallas lost 😂
@@kluemenadi thanks capt. obvious. you really changed my point of view in life
That Dallas team was stacked. Mad veterans but played together everyone could shoot
This video has so many flaws
I know the stats didnt show everything, but the curry gravity is a thing you can only explain if you watch the games, durant only have 35 because teams fear curry giving him double teams every time he touch the ball, the record of double teams received in the finals is his, even today, with just 16 points and a horrible shooting night, golden state won because draymond, payton and others got easy ways to the basket by currys gravity
Not really. KD put up 35.4ppg against the bucks last year with nobody taking attention away from him on defense. He's always been able to score 35
@@OscarUnrated what? I’d say having either Harden or Kyrie on the court takes some attention away from him… there’s a reason the Warriors were as unbelievably dominant as they were, while any other team Durant is on regardless of the amount of all stars he has end up failing miserably… When you’re on a team with the most dangerous shooter the game has ever seen & that guy can literally pull up from half court consistently, then you tend to get more open shots & 1 on 1s… Sure Durant can have a few game stretch where his stats are insane, but where has that gotten him when he wasn’t on a team with Curry?
@@QasperDubstep Kyrie wasn't playing and Harden was hobbling around on one knee playing terrible. KD put up 49 points, 17 rebounds and 10 assists game 5. Maybe KD would've won last year if his team stayed healthy. Anyway it's not my point to argue KD vs Steph
It’s not like he’s the only one with gravity
Even Ty Lue admitted it. They’d rather let Klay and KD be alone and just double Steph.
Incredible video, learned a ton that I otherwise wouldn’t have known. One minor error though, at 9:17 you mistakenly wrote “Kobe Bryant” instead of Kawhi Leonard when comparing his and Steph’s stats for the 2019 Finals
It's an intentional joke, i think
I just went to keyboard warrior that statement but refrained. Glad someone saw it.
@@tiffanylovelovelove do you know the origin?
@@garygfgf4460 Greece
Good to know I wasn’t the only one that noticed it lol
What this tells me?
Stats not be sole criteria to judge.
So, Westbrook is a great player and can put stats but not valuable for winning.
9:15 Kobe? All jokes aside another great video Jxmy, keep it up you are killing it.
I love that Kawhi is named Kobe Bryant at 9:22 when jimmy was talking about the 2019 finals MVP
I think he was a bit tired 😴
@@MetawarOG Kawhi = Kobe confirmed
Imagine in 2018: "Congrats to the Warriors on sweeping the finals, but the MVP is going to Lebron James" it would feel like a pity trophy
How he was the best player on the court
@@kdubs928 he didn’t have to share the ball with 4 hall of famers like the dubs did. That skews a lot of his numbers. The east was so incredibly weak during that time period that lebron and nobodies were able to make the finals
@@waltercampbell9787 the facts that there was a team with 4 hall of famers in their prime to beat a team of nobodies and lebron is ridiculous, nobody on the warriors deserve the ring let alone the damn finals mvp they didn’t earn either 😭
@@kdubs928 that's because how they defended him. They let him go off. That's why stats can be false
Not to mention they lost by an average of 15 ppg. The closest they came to winning a game was a 10 point OT loss. 2014 would be nearly as bad. Steal 1 game and STILL manage lose by an average of 14 ppg, but here's your MVP trophy. Ridiculous.
@9:20, I’m pretty sure someone already told you, but you have Kobe Bryant’s name on the screen instead of Kawhi Leonard. It happens to all of us
yeye I noticed and was about to comment as well
Wonder if those were Kobe’s numbers too from a different series
I was about to say that too lol
Both Steph and LeBron demand a lot of attention from the defense, they are also willing to pass. This makes me wonder what it would have been like seeing them together!
Still could happen. Only chance really is if Lebron goes to golden state though, steph isn’t leaving
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They’d go 82-0
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Wwe is realer than the NBA. Just so you know the Lakers bucks and warriors all won there championship in 6 in the last 3 years. Btw this the day before game 6 and I guarantee warriors win
It’s really hard to be guarded by two players- remember , NBA players aren’t average joes , they’re the best of the best. Being guarded by two people who are at the elite level, and still dropping 20+ is insane! Hats off to Steph.
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I know this same message gets posted every time you upload a video, but I'm well overdue posting it myself... YOU'RE A FREAKING LEGEND!! Honestly, you make very possibly the BEST sport-related videos out there! The time and effort put into them week-in, week-out is insane and they are consistently top, top quality! The attention to detail and depth of information is always such easy viewing, so hats off, keep doing what you do!
In the AFL (australian football League) we have an award that is almost identical to the finals MVP, Its reserved for the best player on the winning team, however in the 2002 grand final Nathan Buckley Played so well that they gave him the medal even though he lost. Anyway I ended up getting named after him. 😂
Steph's value can't be seen just in stats. His presence that draws the attention of the defenders is definitely can be a case for fmvp. If Steph wasn't there in, do you think Kd would be still be able to put up those numbers?
Yes any day of the week, he was putting same numbers in okc
@@easymoneysniper1256 yeah because he had an mvp level pg in russel westbrook, with his amazing playmaking
@@easymoneysniper1256 how many rings did he get without steph?
@@stephengrigg5988 how many rings would steph have without KD?
@Roberto Gutiérrez and KD averaged 26 points and that was his worst playoff series ever so i don't see a point really
I think the Mj and Giannis performances are even more impressive than the numbers showed. Both were really clutch multiple times and had some of the greatest highlights of the finals ever
This is one of the things I always think. In my case for Manu Ginobili. He had a lot of great games, but he didn't put 35pts games all the time like other people. However, whenever he came on the court maybe he made 2 or 3 three pointers, but those were like massive at the end of a quarter or whenever the team needed that morale.
I think Kobe was the same. Besides the raw numbers, he was electrifying to play with. And that energy (as he said himself) is not something you can show in statistics.
Yeah, i think it would be interesting to see a stat describing the value of made shots. So a gamewinning threepoint buzzer beater, shot over the dpoy would be the most valuable shot and would a large score. While a completely wide open layup while ahead by 50 would add practically nothing.
With that stat we could truly see who performs bet on ball in clutch moments.
I don't remember someone saying that Kobe should be FMVP of one of the three-peat Lakers Championships. Basketball fans know that it was definitely Shaq's, since EAST teams are weaker. What they argue was Kobe is equally (or maybe a little more) valuable on the Wester Conference Playoffs matchups during that run.
kobe didnt create all of shaq's points
Ratio + K-POP BETTER🤳🏼🤳🏼🤳🏼🤳🏼👶🏻👶🏻👶🏻👶🏻👶🏻🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓
Yea no Shaq was definitely had the best performances in the finals. That’s because the teams they played biggest weak spot was the center position. While if you look at the Western Conference playoff games you’ll see him and Kobe having identical stats.
Still is irrelevant cause he was the better player in the finals 🤨
Kobe is the most overrated player in NBA history, so push for him as MVP in any finals while Shaq dominated isn't surprising.
Everytime you upload, it makes me genuinely happy, thank you my man for the consistent content 🙌
Tbh in my opinion finals mvps shouldn’t really be used in debates (especially to tear down Steph) partially because of this vid showing it’s pretty flawed. Also being the consistent 2nd or 3rd best player on a winning team isn’t necessarily a bad thing (eg Kobe)
There should be actual former players that vote on the fucking fmvp, not these clowns who voted IGUODALA as fmvp over steph.
it isnt bad for a good player but for someone whos in goat debate all the time it really makes a whole lot of difference.
Great video. I like these videos because it gives so many different perspectives. Stats are important but don't really shows exactly how valuable someone is. The Box +/- is often a flawed stat because a person can have 0 points with limited production and have a higher +/- than a person who has a 40-10-10 with efficiency, which is crazy. So while these scores/stats may suggest one thing, other outside factors like player gravity, the able to draw double and triple teams, and other intricate details a person can do that don't show up in the stats. Great video as always, Jxmy!
Big props to you man. Even though the Celtics are looking at an L: the fact that you predicted them to win and they're holding their own so well against the Warriors is a big analytic dub for you from my perspective. You are the NBA G.O.A.T - never forget that!
Facts
He predicted Jokic to win MVP before Jokic was even close to being in the conversation
@Luke Thomas exactly
@Luke Thomas Those guys were injured and lacked the talent and depth of the Warriors. Are you forgetting that the Celtics might end up CHOKING LIKE THE SUNS DID LAST YEAR?!?! I mean, at least the Celtics showed SOME fight, but.....still no.
I feel Celtics could make a comeback though I'm rooting for warriors as I want them and Draymond green to win the finals and say they won it without KD(Draymond said that statement to KD)
But Celtics Id like to see them win including Jason Tatum to get his ring. It's so this is hard;;;
Can we appreciate this dude for a moment, he has 2mil subs and he deserves each and every one of them.
Congrats Jxmy
Well it's game night and he literally just won it
Yessir
I think the real issue with this is that it doesn’t take into account the load of a player, or the attention they receive from defenses and how they create advantages for teammates. Some of these players with high “MVP scores” wouldn’t be able to do that without a superstar teammate making the game easier for them.
Like what draymond does for the warriors, what he does on defense and pushing the offense doesn’t show up on the stat board
@@eli6797 yup draymond is of the few players that show stats and numbers aren't everything.
Jimmy should really be given a role in the nba as like the head of stats or something or a commentator because not only is his voice extremely soothing the way he analyses data and comes to a conclusion is actually mind- blowing
Definitely great at presenting data. Not much analysts going on tho not hard to go on basketball reference and add two already made metrics together
just wanna say thank you for the work you put in. you are an extremely hard worker and that’s not to be taken lightly. we as your subs appreciate your effort bro. thank you once again! cheers from Ohio 🇺🇸
The level of research and understanding of the game of basketball and that stats the go into are just insane. Jimmy is a godsend. We love you, Jimmy.
You be going ham with them numbers man.. crazy‼️It's making sick just thinking of how much work doing what you do is 🤢‼️That's dedication.. salute to you‼️
Facts Jxmy might be the goat nba YTer… I wonder who edits his videos (if he does this himself he’s def goat lol)
I think if you considered defensive contributions to a team, some of these stats would look different as well
Box plus minus???
If this vid shows anything, it shows just how great Lebron really was, and still is. Insane how he still doesn't get his props from a lot of people. Love the vids Jxmy. Best basketball content on UA-cam bro.
Facts
Just gonna drop the congrats to the GSW for the NBA Finals victory and the Finals MVP Steph
If Steph gets his 4th ring and wins finals MVP, it will be arguably his most impressive and to him I would imagine his favorite championship. Struggling through the KD fiasco and being a number 2 option. Then losing Klay and a lost season, to come back and lead this team to the championship would be as impressive if not more impressive than the first one that team won.
I hate how losing isn't counted in finals mvp but I understand why it isn't. If it was then the league would encourage more dominant performances and less winning in the finals.
Agreed. You’d have way too many players trying to stat pad, especially if they were on the weaker team that was less likely to win.
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Jerry West won on a losing team
@@ScrillaTMU you say that but when was the last time someone in the losing team won?
I don't think anyone would actually want to stat pad instead of winning the finals.
I don't think advanced stats show Steph's real value as a player, because just his presense on the court alone changes a lot, that does affect the team success and his teammates stats as a result, while even the advanced stats are not able to showcase that impact.
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Bro missed like 9 3s last night lmao
And despite that he kept drawing double teams. His impact is about more than his success, it’s also about how much you have to stretch your defense and avoid helping off off him
@@iliketurtles7782 bro also scored 43 and average 30 before that so whats ur point😂
Jxmmy needs to work for the nba, the numbers he’s crunching for us is just unreal
Really respect the video. However, I don't think I buy your statistical justification as the Finals MVP Game Score formula seems flawed.
First, the interpretation of BPM is to measure player impact relative to the average player in the league (the average BPM is 0), wheras the interpretation of Game Score is more to understand the total impact of a player on the game (the coefficients in the Game Score formula have intuitive reasoning which directly correspond to point impact).
Simply summing these two stats is dangerous because we're summing two stats with two varying scales (one stat is relative to the average player wheras the other is not). Secondly, even if they were on the same scale simply adding two numbers is not a valid justification and is generally bad practice statistics wise.
Specifically, this is because it can lead to very dangerous conclusions as the way I conceive a formula can be inherently biased or skewed. For instance, if I were to state that the skill of a player was directly measured by his BPM, I could come to the ridiculous conclusion that Dejounte Murray is the 11th best player in the league. Thus, there would need to be some analysis on why the finals MVP score works (stats like game score and BPM attribute coefficients to each statistic either by intuitive reasoning or regression analysis). I personally don't believe that adding BPM (even if they were on the same scale) and Game Score has any real meaning at all - they're both, at their core, a framework for measuring player impact.
I'd love to hear your thoughts if you think my understanding is flawed though.
yeah, adding them up does seem flawed. There needs to be coefficients in front of both the BPM and GameScore to balance these varying scales. What these coefficients would be though, I have no idea
honestly, analyzing non-negotiable MVP canidates like giannis in 2021 or MJ in 1991 and creating a logistic regression model based on these 2 performances would honestly be a better way to find MVPs for every year. I could be wrong tho
This kind of issue happens multiple times in Jxmy's videos. He uses stats yet not in a "statistical" way, only in a way that is easy to understand and show.
His method isnt perfect but results seem decent. Which result do you not agree with. I cant see the argument that steph was ever better than lebron in the finals.
@@唯杰郭 But that's the point of the video. He's crunching the numbers and using it as a "side" argument. It's up to us the actual viewers whether to take it as face value or realize it's behind the scenes stuff like Curry helping KD's Finals MVP due to his presence etc. This is why hard data isn't good to prove stuff because there's always outside factors. But this is just good info to digest. Nothing more nothing less. It's nothing but a "what if" at the end of the day anyway.
Man imagine Jerry West’s accolades if they were doing this throughout his career. I mean I’m sure he would hate this but let’s be real, he would easily have 4 or even 5+ FMVP if they had the award earlier and winning it while losing the series wasn’t seen as taboo. I mean he did it once, there’s no good reason to think he wouldn’t have done it several other times given his consistently outstanding Finals performances every year *except* the one year they actually won.
Dude and they lost four of those series in game 7 by less than five points. Jerry West is possibly the most underrated top tier player in the history of the NBA. His stat lines were fucking insane in the playoffs. Top 15 for sure
Being curious about the number Curry accumulated this finals, it's pretty great and his highest so far. With a 23.2 GmSc and adding 10.9 BPM it sums to 34.1 MVP SCORE, including 31.2 PPG 6 RPG 5 APG 62 %TS
I know you're only covering a certain amount of years but... didn't Jerry West win a finals MVP while being on the losing team? 🤔
That was the very first year. After that they were like yea we can’t reward losing
I guess so, huh? xD Either way it's an interesting part of NBA history that I doubt many people know of!
@@suntansuperman26 It's not a official rule but does not happen enough.
Jerry West truly deserved that MVP. He dropped 53 points in Game 1 and had a 42-point triple-double in Game 7 with 12 assists and 13 rebounds! The Lakers only lost by 2 points in that deciding game 7.
Jimmy makes our day better whenever he uploads ✊🏾
definitly
Facts
In my opinion, Curry shouldve won finals MVP most if not all years he's won in the finals. He's the most valuable player on the Warriors with or without KD. His GRAVITY is why the Warriors have that championship pedigree. His shooting and movement off the ball forces the other teams' defense to gravitate heavily towards Curry so that his teammates can thrive and get better looks. Numbers even show that all stars that have joined Curry have had much more efficient and impactful stats. Yes KD was probably the best player on those Warriors runs (2018 is arguable because Steph was matching his numbers while also being double teamed WAY more than KD), but the attention that Steph brings is why the Warriors have had so much success. Just look at game 5, he was double teamed and blitzed all game because of his 43 point game before, which allowed Wiggins to attack the rim and go off. This is the same for KD when he was with the Warriors.
He can’t defend. A two way player with less offensive impact will still by default be more impactful than Curry.
Greatest shooter ever went 0-9 in a finals game 5 lol one of rhe biggest choke jobs ever but this will be swept under the rug like usual
@@Fraudkovic he has 1 bad game don’t discredit all his other great games, also look at lebron 2011 ic you saying that, or game 1 2018 kd 8-22 from the field 🤷♂️
@SkeleiSZN u realise this gravity thing isn't exclusive to curry right.
@@Fraudkovic u saw his 43 point game before that ?
Impressive deep, objective and straightforward analysis, thanks!
These numbers do not even remotely make it objective. If this was how basketball contribution was decided then Steph would have 1 chip and LeBron would have 7. It’s sad that a video like this brainwashed people who don’t understand the game.
Come on jxmy🔥🔥🔥 ur hardwork and evidence is unmatched
Also Celtics prediction was the most accurate thing I've ever seen 😂😂
Jonny Arnett already made a video about giving the finals MVP to the best player (not the winning team's best player) a long time ago. Check it out edit: As a kid in high school, I was really surprised Ray Allen wasn't the finals MVP in 08, perfectly agree with the numbers
TS% should have a much higher weighting.
Tough to think of Lebron as a finals MVP with a sub 50% TS. Makes Igoudala getting the award seem more reasonable.
But with that logic, Steph deserves that award. He had a 59% TS% that series on 26 ppg... that's pretty good and certainly better than Iggy
There was NO ONE on that team, who? Dellavedova? He had no one to help carry the load
@@lik7953 I generally agree.
that thumbnail aged phenomenally
In my opinion stats shouldn’t be the end all be all for an mvp award. It should be given to the player who is literally the “most valuable.” Without dirk how far do the mavs go in their playoff run?
wouldnt even reach the playoffs
This why I hate that idea. Cause at the end of the day how far doesn't matter cause they are already there. What matter is who was the most valuable to the series who's changed the series and those players were shown with hard proof.
If this was the case it should be called the NBA Playoff’s MVP Award or like the Micheal Jordan award or something lol it’s called the Finals MVP for a reason, cause they’re only looking at the finals…
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@@MMALifestyle1972 the point still stands that without Dirk the mavs are dead in the water
Still disagree with the KD era of the Warriors. Steph parted the seas for KD to feast, he def deserved FMVP
Just look at what happened to KD in this year's playoffs when he was the main focus of the Celtics defense.
Something about the goat debate that so many overlook is the simple fact that when you give context to lebrons career his case gets much better. If you give context to Mj’s it gets worse
With context lebron was outplayed by damn near everyone in 2011 finals
@@brandoncronan348 everyone knows this, it is unanimously agreed that this is the stain on lebrons legacy. You need no context to know this because of how hard lebron was trashed about this performance so what are you talking about?
I mean there's a huge lack of context for MJ as well... everyone makes it like he was a winner from day 1 but he's had to be extremely resilient and ended up 3-peating twice. Also in 98 pippen was out for half the season and injured in the finals... yet 35 y/o MJ still put the team on his back leading them to a 62-20 record and scoring more than half their points in g6, getting the clutch steal and hitting the game winner... 🐐
@@christian3024 umm was your lack of context that Mj was struggling winning early because he didn’t have a good team around him ummmm… *cough cough lebron his first seven years in the league* And your second point was that Mj had to play without pippen for half the season💀 *cough cough kyrie and klove injuried the whole 2015 finals and AD injured for half the series against the suns* Don’t get me wrong Mj’s career does deserve some context but that was what u came up with, lebrons had it way worse in regard to not having the teams to help him win and injuries in the playoffs
When you look at the numbers, MJ is statistically better in like every category what
Your legwork to go through mountains of statistical data and answer questions we all wonder about is so admirable and what makes you one of the best UA-camrs around. Great stuff, love it!
I like the take, but I kindly disagree. The fact that the person who had the highest game score wins doesn't make sense, because they don't win the finals. This compares to the regular season MVP. You don't see players on a non-playoff team winning the MVP, and you rarely ever see players on low seeded playoff teams winning the MVP. It is usually players with the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd seed. This means winning is a huge factor to winning the MVP, which is the same with the Finals. It is a lot about impact, and the details and context. Its not just the stats. I only see the person on a losing team winning the Finals MVP if they TRULY DOMINATED the series, like Lebron in 2015, but not Kemp in 1996. You also have to take in to account the defensive contributions too. I also think that if a player on the losing team wins the Finals MVP, they have had to have taken the series to at least 6 games. I do agree with the winning team's players who should have won it, with the highest FMVP score, but mostly not the losing team. Great vid tho.
this video is fucking horrible, judging players solely based on numbers to show a performance doesnt show how good someone actually played and how much impact a player made. its exactly like the frank gore discussion for hof and how people are judging him solely based on numbers when there is more to the game than just numbers. people have to truly watch someone for an extended period of time, every rams or seahawks fan ive seen on reddit have a drastically different take than a lot of other people who would call him incredible despite his his numbers. yes some time the numbers prove how good a player is but there is always players who do not fit into this mold
@@imwithyou38 I was about to say lol, it's an interesting take but makes no fucking sense. A player's values comes from more than just stats. Does this video even take defense into consideration because I didn't hear him mention it even once
@@TheReck12 and when u put steph into the equation the amount of gravity he pulls by just stepping onto the court and a fuck load of value. there is so many things. it really ircs me when i see shit like this as you could probably tell from my frank gore comment. some players values cant be measured by stats in so many ways in sports. measures stats for a rb but dont take into the equation number of runs in it or how good he is as pass protecting, catch in baseball how to call a game. this is something ive grown much interest in considering im 35 and started watching sports at age 4 when i matched mj or the niners, at 5 when istarted going to baseball games in oakland. i like the little things
@@TheReck12 did you pay attention when he said what stats were being used to calculate the finals mvp score?
Agreed. Value = more than just stats. If your team doesn't win the series, you simply can't be valuable enough to earn the award.
Iguadala earned his MVP. He was clutch, played incredible defense against the best, and he carried the Warriors to victory when they needed him to.
Facts if you factor in defense and how the series changed when he was put into the starting lineup I think he deserved it. Steph is the better overall player but those finals he was amazing
For any of y’all who only watched yesterday & not the series
GAME 1 SC - 34-5-5 AW - 20-0-5
GAME 2 SC - 29-4-6 AW - 11-2-9
GAME 3 SC - 31-2-4 AW - 18-2-7
GAME 4 SC - 43-4-10 AW - 17-2-16
Steph deserves this (if they win) , the 2015 IGGY FMVP was a huge mistake & mistakes should never happen twice.
unless they lose. the series isn't over yet so you never know.
stats dont show wiggins defense on tatum
Cs in 7
I agree with you in the sense that Steph should be FMVP but stats aren't everything, Wiggs is a candidate because of his lockdown defense on Tatum
@@mightdai7489 Definitely not close.
But Wiggs has been great and a deserved second.
Coming back after the Worriers won the championship and seeing this unedited thumbnail is trippy. Dude never misses with these predictions. 😂
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Worriers💀
The most valuable player knows when to get the team involved/makes their teammates better. I would hate to see individual players competing for the MVP instead of two whole teams competing for a championship.
👌
“The 1 accomplishment Steph has yet to achieve in his legendary career”
People really do not care about defense 💀
Why would we?
This is why I hate numbers they never tell the whole story. You never bring up when those points were scored throughout the game or if those points came in garbage time or if they were meaningless points that come during a blow out so you can’t use these numbers to determine FMVP
It doesn’t make sense to give the FMVP to a player who lost the finals. 🤷♂️
Agreed
then it doesnt make any sense to give the regular season mvp to a player whose team didnt have the best winning percentage
@@jakovsivac45710 1. A different award with different standards 2. The winner FMVP is the guy who leads his team to a chip with great numbers.
Its not rocket science, buddy
@@ericfurst6091 why different standards though? do they play another sport in the regular season?
@@jakovsivac45710 MVP: player with great numbers who leads his team to a top 3 place aka playoffs
FMVP: I explained it before
Your videos are amazing, Jimmy! As a math guy, I love your statistical approach to analysis. Only thing I'd add to this MVP score you used here a measure for intangibles. One, for example, could be a measure of 'clutchness' and baskets that changed the complexion of the ties. These are things that decide games but might not be represented in the numbers. Fantastic video all round. Keep them coming!!! God bless.
His videos are full of flaws. In this case it starts at 0:00, where he conveniently merges MJs 1995 comeback and his 1996 season one year later for dramatization. He's not legit.
@@enkeltrik9330 guess what?
Nobody asked.
And if it's so bad no one asked you to watch it.
@@Fli_BS it's just that jxmy is not a legit analytic voice, at all. He's good at dramatic storytelling, that's it.
@@enkeltrik9330 I look forward to seeing your efforts in this space
Well I guess, but it's still fun to watch
2011 proves why context is more improtant than just numbers and stats. Wade may have been more efficient than Dirk…but LEBRON was his teammate! 😂
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Exactly context, because Jason Terry averaged more points than Lebron did while coming off the bench. So Wade was on a carry job.
@@shaunom8363 And lebron did so poorly because he was the focus of Dallas’ defense. This made it WAY easier for Wade. Dirk was the only all star and had the entire defensive focus on him.
35.54 is what Jokic had in the 2023 NBA finals as a finals MVP score
Jerry West back in 1969 is still the only person to have won the fmvp whilst being on the losing team. This shows that the award going to the winning team isn't necessary, which makes it even worse that it's never considered
Questions how did lebrons numbers help his team win? Being most valuable isn’t about your stats but your impact to your team winning
Take him away and its probably a stomp.
Maybe we can see this topic with some different prospectives. For example all who have watched Andre Iguodala in 2015 finals knows that his defense IN THE CRUCIAL MOMENTS OF ALL GAMES IN THAT FINAL AGAINST LEBRON JAMES was just something that I really felt and it appears time after time in my eyes. Maybe it was not the best if you look at the statistics, but he was just splendid to those final games.
I'm sorry, but even his defense wasn't enough to steal the award from Steph and Steph definitely deserved that. Igoudala averaged 16 points in those finals and I think 4 or 5 assists on 52% shooting while Curry averaged 26 points, 6 rebounds and 5 assists on 44% shooting while by far the most impactful player on the offensive end from Golden State. And if you talk about Iggy's defense, maybe he is better defender than Curry, but his incredible defense really didn't helo against Lebron because he guardes Lebron in these series who averaged 36 points, 9 rebounds and 13 assists. I'm sorry, but that's not enough to get my vote in those finals.
Jimmy I love your editing. Youre videos always are and look good with all the charts and highlights. You should work for ESPN. You know a lot about the nba. It would be perfect.
9:14 got Kawhi labeled as Kobe. I had to rewind that
Nah I gotta give jimmy my respect I wouldn’t have the patience to do all that 😭
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The Kobe/Shaq thing wasn't a good debate for the *FINALS,* as by that point, you knew whoever won the West was winning the whole thing. Kobe's role was a lot more pivotal in the 3 rounds of the Western Conference Playoffs than it was in the actual Finals.
Spurs, Mavs, Kings, Blazers, etc. were more difficult matchups than anyone coming out of the East, so the Lakers had to do more than just exploit the paint.
But it’s called Finals MVP, not Western Conference Finals MVP
@@bluepythonproductions the west playoffs were basically the finals in the early 2000s
Can we just take a moment to appreciate the time and effort jimmy puts into each and every single video. He’s also like right on time with his videos all the time💪👏
His videos are full of flaws. In this case it starts at 0:00, where he conveniently merges MJs 1995 comeback and his 1996 season one year later for dramatization. He's not legit.
@@enkeltrik9330 bro, he did that to show how good he was for the next few years after he came back from retirement…smh
@@ekelerprodz3847 exactly. He lied in order to make his video more dramatic. Which he also did the video before this. And in other instances. It's fine if you simply look at the entertaining storytelling, but people need to stop thinking he's a legit analytic voice. And he arguably exploits his viewers.
@@enkeltrik9330 he literally creates graphs full of NBA data just to prove one point, how can you not think he’s legit?
@@ekelerprodz3847 every nba youtuber uses stats. Yes, jxmy's content is polished and well produced. As can be expected at 2 plus mill subs. However, the focus is on storytelling with oversights and shortcuts, often in central aspects. Nothing against tabloid entertainment but given this generates money and has a wide reach, one must expect better quality.
Glad to spend the following 11 minutes listening to what jimmy has to say here
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Jxmy's video presentation never failed to amused me, and I hope this year Curry can win his first FMVP!
#warriorsin6
Amusing is the right word, his analysis has become unbearably lackluster.
@@enkeltrik9330 true that..
The fact that my mans Jxmy went to the trouble of crunching all those numbers (I’m convinced Jxmy is addicted to crunching numbers and no one can convince me otherwise) immediately deserves a like and maybe a cold one because no one else on YT takes the phrase “going the extra mile” more literally than JXMY HIGHROLLER!
Seriously tho my mans Jxmy has gon the extra mile so many times that he could’ve probably taken those miles and turn it into some kinda chart that shows how many extra miles he’s taken!