DOES THE BIKING INDUSTRY DESERVE THIS?! - Shimano and Pole Bikes get VERY BAD NEWS
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- Опубліковано 11 лип 2024
- Another day...another set of bad news in the biking industry for 2024 for Shimano, Pole Bikes and Stages Cycling. It seems like every week right now we are hearing about major problems with popular names in mountain biking. Here is the question...do they deserve it? I see it as two sides of the industry and that is what we cover in today's video.
#cyclingnews #mtblife #shimanomtb
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I've been in the world of mountain biking for 25 years. A lot of cool things were developed that really brought another level of fun to our sport, but there are a lot of things that don't add anything to performance and are just a reason to drive up the prices of bikes and components. The prices are completely unrealistic and many people simply stopped walking. Tires, suspensions, brakes, everything is very expensive and out of reach for 80% of consumers in this market.
As far as I remember, in my childhood, bikes in the sub 500 lower bracket were shitty( high weight steel frames, meh components), now they are slightly better despite using the same tier of components (like nomodel Shimano or Alivio - that kind of stuff. Which is better now)
Something normal with aluminum frame and middle of the road components were from like $1,5k. And there were no carbon, electric groupsets, disc brakes etc.
Now we are having all that. And similar tier aluminum bikes are costing less (and even much less if we consider inflation).
It's like having a choice in auto industry to choose between top tier $85k truck and similar in terms of size and relative performance barebone $15k truck(without electric windows, computer, radio, AC and all that kind of jazz).
The difference is - in the car industry we did not have 15k truck. In bikes - 1,5k+ now is like top consumer grade aluminum frame + Shimano 105 + disk brakes + carbon fork + sub 10 kg weight.
We just have much more options in the high cost segment now than before. And more marketing towards that segment.
Looking at the graph at 0:40, it just looks like Shimano's numbers are returning to where they were before the pandemic bump. Obviously there were some big mistakes made during the pandemic with companies thinking the good times were going to last forever, but I think over the next year, things will more or less go back to normal, with the obvious exception of those companies that got greedy and over extended themselves beyond the point of recovery.
Yup, well said.
Yep the big bike monster industry kinda deserve this.
Feeling sad for small brands with a vision and human principles and all the ppl losing their jobs
Do the employees deserve it? No
Do the businessmen and C level people deserve it? Yes, they do.
100%
I tend to agree, the stores are run by enthusiasts, they seemed to feel the covid bubble would continue for ever (look up Homer Simpson and the pumpkin analogy), coupled with shareholder return was the perfect storm. The shops and the workers, not at all, but the venture capital business, everything they get.
Came here to say this so I’ll simply co-sign on it as well. I have friends in the business that have nothing to do with this and they are worried. Plus we’re in Baltimore area so they key bridge collapse has really messed with port traffic is causing covid like shortages of some products (bike and other).
Yeah... well... you know they hitched their wagon to these "c level suite" people when times are good... so when things turn to the worse. Oh well...
Shimano never admitted the failures of their Dura Ace cranks until they had to. Same with their early XTR 9100 series gear shifter and they did not admit anything was wrong...even their rear XT/XTR hubs have a poor reputation for the reliability of an integral plastic part. Companies are no longer speccing their higher end bikes with Shimano (except for brakes). The industry is eating itself up with so many differing "standards" and spare parts not being available never mind the cost of the bikes themselves. Battery bikes are taking a bigger share of the market and normal bikes are having to compete with yet more powered forms of transport such as battery scooters. Many people have to choose between heat or eat and if they can afford the insurance for a car then have to use it to justify the costs. Bike thieves and manic traffic on poorly maintained roads.
"The industry is eating itself up with so many differing 'standards' ..." Ugghhh! So true! I'm a twist shift user and can no longer use it for Shimano 11 and 12 speed. Just like you said, differing standards.
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Honda Foreman 4-wheeler AWD $8k. Trek Top Fuel 9.8 AXS $7k. ROFLMAO
Pole is not an example of what’s going on in the industry. Pole was run into the ground by an arrogant and incompetent twat, who despite clear evidence to the contrary would simply not listen to anybody else. The brand had no dealers, no test centers, ridiculous waiting times, high prices and to be honest ride characteristics that matched the needs of probably less than 1% of riders out there. A 200mm heavy e-bike is just not what most people want. If specialized only made the Kenevo SL they too would struggle to make any money. Leo has a terrible reputation. Anyone who doesn’t immediately fall before him and praise his genius is treated like shit! He’s about as capable at business as he is at dancing ballet.
The lack of sympathy stems from the overwhelming majority of those who work in the industry and that have something to do with the customers have behaved appallingly for years! They’ve treated the customers like absolute garbage. I actually sold one of my bikes simply because the brand people were such total dicks to me at Eurobike last year. I’m delighted to see them finally getting what they rightfully deserve. The old saying customer is king is true. And the customer will make his displeasure felt one way or another. You can blame the economy all you want but for such a niche product as MtB people have simply had enough of being gutted and ripped off and are keeping their money in their pockets!
Couldn't be more right. Tried the most complicated way to make a bike (full CNC frame with bonding) and wonders why he couldn't do it. And support......all looks nice on paper but reality is the true test.
It's a textbook case of supply and demand, and how slowly the market is able to shift when an abrupt event like C-19 occurs. The Quarterly earnings have essentially reverted back to Q1 of 2019 (before covid). Essentially nothing has changed, except for the industry to return to the staffing levels that were the norm in 2019 prior to C-19. What we are going thru now, is the lag in how the industry is re-adjusting itself to the new equilibrium - we seem to firmly in the center of that process.
Any shift like this is disruptive, and it's inevitable that businesses will fail due to that disturbance.
For me it's $ scalping but also the deliberate, planned obsolescence of parts and systems. For example, adding a cassette cog every few years on an antiquated and inherently flawed system (derailleurs) and calling it an "upgrade" is a sham. Any skilled mech P.E. could have designed a 10 sp cassette in the 1970s that wasn't prone to broken axles and spokes but somehow this had to slowly evolve over 50 years. I've been riding Rohloff Speedhubs for over 20 years with virtually the same efficiency as derailleurs, including one with over 90k miles on it. There is little maintenance and virtually no adjustments required -- unlike derailleurs which require constant fuss and attention. The quality of internal shifting relegates even Dura Ace to junk IMO. All derailleur systems require jumping a chain up and down for gear changes vs the instant shift of a transmission; no comparison. Something like hub gears would represent a true industry upgrade, but currently these add about 1.5 lb to a bike because said "industry" isn't interested and won't seriously invest in the idea. They won't do it because it would deprive them of costly yet useless upgrades like adding more and more cogs.
The internal gearbox is the future of
Sorry didn’t get to complete comment. Future of cycling period, the only problem with it is it will eliminate 90% of the cycling bullcrap parts market. That’s why it will be suppressed by all the major manufacturers and parts manufacturers.
@@michaelmann3636 Precisely. And I feel qualified to say it bc I rode derailleur systems for decades before making the switch to internals. Recently I built a bike aiming for weight reduction on everything, so I went with a Deore 10-sp 1x system. There's simply no comparison to the Rohloff; even perfectly adjusted, it was like going back to the stone age. The delays between shifts (chain flipping up and down cogs) and inability to shift while stopped were immediately apparent and annoying. Serious indus investment could eliminate any weight penalties of internals, including use of a belt further lightening things up -- but as you say, that won't happen bc they have to have crap to obsolete. The Speedhub I bought in 2003 is virtually identical to the one on offer now, bc there's nothing in it to plan obsolete: 14 discrete gears spaced at 13% with an over 500% range is all you need. Cheers.
@@franciswarnock8977 Same thing in the E-bike market with the electric Pinion gearbox. A far superior system that would eliminate every other motor and gear manufacturer out there. It’s a shame that a truly superior system won’t be available for a long while. I’m not a e-user but I can recognize a revolutionary system when I see it.
Your experience is unique. My issue with Rohloff isn't that it works, but if it doesn't where do you get parts or service. I live in Vancouver BC and have seen only ONE Rohloff hub in all my 40+ years of Shore riding. I saw more Hammerschmitt cranks than Rohloff hubs. Consider yourself lucky.
It’s simple… all of the marketing teams at these bike brands have convinced everyone that we all need $10k bikes, essentially pricing people out of the market.
I don't necessarily think it's combined both the buyers and the corporate working together. Bikers who already have bikes will need to upgrade parts over time so they don't have much option. It seems like these companies have been gouging their customers because they can. When you see companies like Kona selling buy one get one, that tells me they are likely making 100% profit on one bike if they can just give a bike for "free". When a "budget" bike is 3-5k, something is really wrong.
Great video by the way!
Thanks! Yeah the Kona sale was wild. But after the most recent news about them (check the previous video)...it sounds like they were trying to offload inventory to prepare the company for sale. That isn't to say they were still making margin on that sale too though.
When you see sales like that, it's an indication that a business is in a bad way cash wise. Bills, pay roll, loans are still due and, at least here in the US, you also pay taxes on inventory as well. So when you see what Kona was doing, it wasn't because their margins were so high that they were still turning a profit with the BOGO, it was because they were desperate for immediate cash to pay those expenses that were due.
The thing with Shimano... They have not competed with SRAM. Right now, XTR is a great buy, can't believe I said that. But it is and its lighter in weight than transmission from SRAM and it shifts just as good. I have both. But Sram has passed Shimano and they just refuse to compete. I would still take XT or XTR brakes over Sram van halen brakes anyday or codes. But other than that, I am sure that Sram has better numbers. More bikes are coming with SRAM and less bikes with Shimano when it comes to kit builds offered by brands. Acquiring Rochshox has helped SRAM as well in a big way. But again, Shimano in the drivetrain department has been passed over. So many people are choosing SRAM and that is Shimano's own fault.
Well said. Of my 3 bikes 2 have SRAM and 1 has Shimano. The SRAM is way better at this point in time. In the past there have been times when some Shimano has been better in some areas. NX and SX is crap and equal level Shimano will last a lifetime. M8000 brakes i brought new that ended up in the RUBBISH BIN are the exception. Excellent RSC brakes on 1 bike are awesome but my other 2 bikes are Hope which are sooo good.
Sram wired drivetrains are garbage. Apples to apples, shimano is far better. Compare sx to deore and go up the line.
@@pebbleinspector and they charge how much for it? Ridiculous.
My locale shop wants more for their Shimano kittle rides then the SRAM kitted ones. Like with the Norco optics , heck the SRAM one is 300 less. But you get DT 350 hubs compared to the XT hubs. It's all preference I guess.
Its the people at the top who are to blame imo. The economy always goes through boom and bust cycles. I remember about 4 or 5 since the 1980's. The trouble is when you don't prepare for the next bust. Instead they just tried to concentrate on the high end of the market with expensive high tech options. And pissed everyone off who don't want disc brakes and electronic gears. This tech trickled down to the mid and lower tiers and due to inflation, cost of living crisis road bikes are too expensive for many people looking to perhaps get into the sport. Sounds like the expensive bikes are still selling, but the lower tiers aren't. If we can't attract new people into the sport, cycling is in trouble.
I think that some of the general "getting what they deserve" sentiment is due to shitty things being perpetrated without consequences. Price gouging in the food and grocery industries would have a similar result if people could choose not to eat. I didn't have to buy a bike or any significant parts or whatnot in the last few years, but I get it; people do not like being fucked over. Maybe the industry will "evolve" from this, but I doubt it. Corporations are all about servicing the shareholders, and fuck the rest. Like Incubus said, "Consequence is a bigger word than you think."
Well said!
I’m loving the biking and many other industries getting what’s coming to them!
I've heard many times how the bike industry is cut throat. I've heard from a bike shop owner I used to know back in the 90's, and from one of the brothers of Green Cycles started out of California back in the early 90's also, and through others that I knew back in the day. It's very difficult for the little guy, so some of the bigs are getting what is due if you ask me, especially for this craziness.
I think the companies should be held accountable for price gouging but we need to have compassion for the workers of the company. You do what you need to to keep a pay cheque.
it's not a question of deserving at all, the pandemic fucked up the whole chain supply of every products in the world including bikes, when we had to do social distancing, bike became of the the most popular sport, everybody bought a bike, everything new was sold out, aftermarket bike were rare and expensive. Now that everything is kinda back to normal, the market is flooded with more bike than usual, less people buy parts and brand new bicycles and their revenu tanked. Were those brand new bicycles were expensive, yes I agree, but if you follow economics a bit, you'll lose the emotional reaction "they deserve this"
It looks like the industry had a large CV/post-CV influx of new riders (or existing riders who upgraded) that have satisfied their initial needs, so things go back to a more sustainable model for sales.
There is some of that as well. The huge influx during COVID did create a sales lag. It also tanked the used market as some went back to work and don't have time to ride or found out they aren't really that into it.
The small and boutique brands did know what got into and it was not the lack of knowledge that got them closed, rather the simple fact that... they were small and did not have the resources (read piles of cash) to fall back on and see the this stall out. They jumped on a rapid that got slower and slower and they couldn't stay afloat. It's just pure economics, the only mistake they made is they thought the clients are similarly enthusiastic about the bikes and the sport, but clients are looking either for the bling or the cheapest deal, so no brand manager can beat that and it's a tough lesson for the small business in this BIG BUSINESS to learn. On the other hand, I do not see any price decrease on Shimano parts or big brand bikes. They will try to keep the prices thinking they can sail this market slump out. I got my self a big bag of popcorn and I am waiting to see who goes down next. I am patient.
Price gouging went absolutely nuts during the pandemic. You can do that with fuel and food, but not with things people can choose not to buy. I feel for the employees, especially from the smaller brands. At the end of the day, the prices are too high and people can't justify 6K for a bike. I can buy a decent car for that.
This is the same correction that other industries who mis-read market forces have had post COVID. Being in one of those industries I know how painful it is for those displaced workers. Unfortunately it was obvious to many that you cannot sustain the growth seen during the peak COVID years, but apparently not the well compensated executives who were making decisions. I agree with others that the industry has lost touch with its base. When I bought my first MTB in 1986 there were good entry level options that had trail capability and a broke HS kid like me could afford. When I look at the market now I see it skewed towards the higher end of the price range thus cutting off or delaying entry of the younger folks who may not have the budget for the $8-10k bikes. Give it a few years and free market forces will sort this out.
I always wonder what Jim did after the office 😂
They have been over charging for their products so yes
Here in my country, the cheap brands gain more. Big brands can't even catch up
One more thing... Allegedly, Wal Mart has bought Specialized. ENVE has also been bought by PV3 and stages is done now, no buyer. I'm not surprised about Enve, too much competition and more affordable and just as good offering in bars and wheels. Enve is just too expensive.
The cycling industry has reaped profits for years overcharging for everything all my bikes where over $10,000 never again will I ever spend that much again the problem is the intended target groups have really shrunk & there are way less people interested in spending so much on higher end bikes & parts. Just the other day I saw a sale advertisement for Revel bikes which is a smaller company & in years past you would never see bike sales like you do now not even the main stream brands had sales let alone the smaller more expensive boutique brands. Also most of the companies have been bought by bigger brands that sell multiple items & that’s when these companies seem to just be driven into the ground companies like Kona that once sold to some big corporation that knows nothing about cycling they just get driven into the ground.
Fantastic news for consumers. The industry treated consumers with utter contempt during the pandemic, so it's therapeutic to see them turning out this way. The excuse that it should be justified because "they're proper bikers" has no basis in reality, but is more of the attitude of a child that thinks they can be a rock star without learning to sing or write songs. These business are run by people who haven't respected the principles of business and economics, and produced products that don't fill an existing gap in the market, or simply run terribly. Just because we like bikes, doesn't mean we should give money to these companies. Kona, like Orange, produced shit bikes for years, and that's why they're going under.
I think a lot of this is an economic cycle. The bike industry booms when discretionary spending is up and crashes when it is tight. The concerning thing I am seeing on this cycle, though, is how high prices on enthusiast models are pushing people to ebikes. These people may never come back to the performance oriented bikes unless there is a major price crash.
My dual sided shimano stages power meter chainset failed its recall. Shimano replaced it and I sold it as new. Then I hear that stages have now flopped. Glad i sold it instead of being tempted to use it. Think sales of bikes, motor bikes and everything else is down everywhere. Money is short and prices are rising. But people are still going into my local bike shop and buying 10 grand bikes on credit cards or finance. Bubbles gonna burst soon.
I would bet that there are less than 100,000 people in the world who have the skill to ride a mountain bike that costs $5000 or more. But the bike companies sure try and convince the weekend warrior that they need one. They also never explain the annual cost of maintenance that a bike in that price range costs per year.
they came back around the same level before covid. (q4 19) The price was so ridiculous for 3-4 years. Now I don't feel bad. My bike is a 2022, I can buy it new for 1000$ less.
Yes, the bike industry is experiencing a slump. A pretty big one at that.
I don't hate Shimano, but I do think that they have lacked innovation for a while and they are paying the price for that. Their components don't suck, but they haven't done anything new or amazing for quite some time. The concept of Consolidating their lower and offerings into one major group is a step in the right direction though.
I hate to see any bike company go under. Gorilla gravity was a loss. So is Pole. I heard a rumor that Kona is next?
Like any industry, the bike industry will eat its own in order to stay alive. I feel for the employees who are affected by bad business decisions and poor market performance, but that's the way it is. You need to roll with the punches.
I will cheer when the market returns to a more optimistic future. Until then, I will continue to purchase from the companies that I agree with and the ones that I believe in.
But most notably, I will go out and ride.
sram or huret sachs kinda lived in shimanos shadows for a very long time .shimano pushed the technology we wouldnt be wherewe are now without that .big respect shimano even the fishing reels they make are spot on .and people should think themselves lucky that campagnolo were not the leading brand else no one but toffs would be riding now😂.i remember when sis shifters came out and it was the start of something brilliant .these days everyone wants crazy tech what happened to thumbshifters and huge chainrings .the worst thing about the industry now is the numptys riding around in granny gear with racer wheels on mtbs whining about the price of thend bikes buy second hand theres some real bargains out there
I don't know if its the bike companies fault. Inflation, plus interest rates, plus massive tech industry layoffs... the wester US is really hurting right now, alot of families are cutting discretionary spending to keep up with sky rocketing cost and lower income.
The news about Stages is really disappointing. Such a great product. Both the power meter and the indoor cycle are quality and own both. Hope they make it through.
The problem its the prices that those bikes are , lots of peapol that realy wants to get on this sport , cant pay those bikes
I am also thinking the karma idea plays into the fact the endless changes bikes introduce in terms of new standards, formats trying to make old ones obsolete so they can make more money on a new standard. Boost, which offers no gain, makes frames change thus new components...wheel sizes....bar clamps, gearing (why you need 12 speeds is beyond me). But you can only do this for so long....
Bikes are too expensive
Whar is surprising is during the pandemic shimano specifically said they would not ramp their production up so shortage would remain because they did not want to end up excess production when the numbers would get back to normal.
I absolutely hate that regular people that are also probably passionate about the sport are losing jobs.
However after years are super inflated prices it’s been nice getting stuff at reasonable prices. I got two Maxxis tires that normally retail for $80/ea for $67 combined. With the way things are going there will still be good deals for another year.
1st of there is too many options, too many bike brands offering almost same stuff for same amount of money, no1 really pointed out themselfs with some solid gear and price. Recently you could get some decent bang for buck bikes, from such companies like propain, canyon, yt, etc… And that doesn’t come as MTB only ( canyon example ). I mean when you look Trek for example, you have Trek Slash in like probably 15 different setups available + almost 3 paint jobs per setups thats like 45 different bikes, that go from 3k up to idk 12-15k. And there is also ofc project one with trek, mean i would like to here from any executive how on earth did that person think, that having 45 options of same bike is sustainable, with todays prices, competition, way too many bike brands, etc… We casual, amatuer, bike loving people, don’t want or need 10+k bikes, i leave those bikes to the pros. We just want decent bang for bike bikes. I mean my two friends recentlly purchased propain tyee 5 for 2k€ packed with deluxe select+ shock, lyrik ultimate fork, gx groupset, not to mention other. And then you can look into other brands, we dont want to pay 4-5k$/€ for a bike only to get idk yari packed with sx/nx drivetrain some crappy 100$/€ brakes etc. Or not to mention when it come to road/gravel bikes 2k to get dunno sora/tiagra. Their greed is catching up to them, and yeah they deserve what they are getting into, and yeah i do feel sorry for the employes but hey, employes are probably also cyclists of any kind, you do in a crow can have effect on your superiors, especially because you as a cyclist know how people breath, what they want, need, buy. Because like i said we want some good bang for buck option bikes, nothing to shabby but no on earth i will pay few k’s to get low end drivertrains, groupsets, wheelset, etc… or we are all gonna switch to used bikes, or we gonna wait oporunities and discounts like propains. I mean tbh we all can without bike industry, but we see know their greed can’t go without us. So, hope their owners, executives, leaders, whoever greedy asses will learn something from this situation, bud sadly for us consumers they probably won’t. They gonna blame Covid or something as usual.
The employee job losses are unfortunate. The price gouging and needless complexity of the products being offered is not going over like the bosses thought. Too bad! They brought it on themselves.
When they relearn reality, the few that are left in business will again offer reasonable bikes at reasonable prices. They'll be competing with a new bunch of companies who've stepped in and taken the market with customers who are interested in performance and value rather more than what is being touted on the internet, or how much they can say they spent to save ten watts (at a sacrifice of 5lbs and the other drawbacks ignored or down played by paid shills)
I feel for the workers, but when you take a job there's always a risk that the employer will go out of business or something
Thinking of the situation in terms of emotion, like they deserve it or have more sympathy is ridiculous. Analytical break down and conclusion would bring more to the table.
Just like the car industry, the Bike industry got greedy during Covid. Prices have skyrocketed and they did acquire new customers. It’s 100% a buyers market now and consumers - the real cycling customers that have been here since before Covid aren’t accepting what the Bike Industry is dishing out. I just bought hand made carbon wheels for 30% off. Something I’ve never seen even before Covid.
I think small companies that really cared about bikes had to take on huge unsustainable production growth to meet covid demand and they just cant pay those loans back.
Employees of shops and those who worked directly for the company, always got great discounts on Bikes and every couple of years they would be riding the latest and greatest. Almost like a pro rider. So in a way, I don't really care if they lose their jobs. It all comes out in the wash. I think most Bikes are now set at a certain number, and won't ever go down in price. Sure the Bikes over Ten grand will start to thin out, but I never see anyone riding those. Six and seven thousand dollar bikes are here to stay, until the well off starts getting sick of the sport.
Why don't you make a premium groupset that's actually affordable? How about make high end bikes affordable for more people to buy them? A bicycle should never cost 12 thousand dollars. I didn't hear any of these companies complaining during Covid, other than the fact that they couldn't get product out the door fast enough. Then the resellers were the ones who took the hit when supply caught up and demand dropped overnight and they were sitting on a boatload of inventory. The thing about bikes, you only need to but it one time. Other than some generally cheap maintenance, you don't have to constantly reinvest into the asset, it just works by turning the cranks with the pedals.
The majority of people who jumped into bicycles during Covid only did so to get outside. Many of them have quit, and because of that, the used resell market is now oversaturated. This has made it even harder for the bike industry considering you can buy a near new used bike for a fraction of what new ones are selling for. It's simple economics. My local Trek factory store has had the same 10 bikes in stock for going on a year now. It's a practice that is honestly backwards. And if you are considering a bike fit, you're rarely buying a bike off the rack anyway. At this point, It's more advantageous for both seller and consumer to just order the right size and color.
We will continue to see these same trends in the bike market. Direct to consumer modeling being adopted by more manufacturers, and LBS support for bike fits / work that the average person can't do themselves or don't have the proper tools for.
When this is all over, there will still be places to buy a bicycle.
Sales are just going back to normal (pre-covid)
Sort of looks the same as late 2019 before all the purchasing madness ensued.
For me, I just don't care for much of what the industry offers now. I'm old school all the way. I don't like the new 1x drivetrains on most new MTBs; give me a 3x7 or 3x8 drivetrain, and I'm good. They may not be sexy; they may not be cutting edge. But you know something? THEY WORK! 3x drivetrains have been used for decades, so they're proven and reliable. I like having dedicated ranges of gearing vs. 10-12 speeds with jumps that are too big between gears. Plus, to fit a 10-12 speed cog on the back, the chain has to be thinner. If I could get a nice double boinger with a solid, 3x8 or 3x9 drivetrain, I'd consider buying one. But you want me to pay thousands for a 1x12 with too big jumps in the gearing? Please.
And now we have road bikes with ELECTRONIC SHIFTING? GTFOOH! I can see how these would benefit hardcore racers, but the rest of us? I don't see it. Indexed shifting is more than enough for the vast majority of riders. And what about these exotic carbon frames? Again, they're great for racers, but for normal people? I don't see it. Unlike a CroMo or Al frame, carbon can't be repaired; it has to be tossed when it's damaged. How many people can afford to throw away $5K or $10K like that?
Speaking of CroMo frames WTF HAPPENED to them? Few bikes have them anymore! That's one reason why, as I've gotten back into cycling, I had my old bikes overhauled vs. buying new. Sure, CroMo isn't light, but nothing offers the ride CroMo does.
Al frames done right are fine. I just got a cherry Cannodale SR500; it's my first Al bike. IT'S GREAT! Something like that with modern, indexed shifters would be more than enough for most riders. I like the hard mounted downtube shifters that came with the bike though... :)
I just purchased a nice, used Fuji MTB, and my LBS is refurbishing it right now. I thought about getting a new MTB, but in truth, the old Fuji is enough. It has an Al frame, a 3x7 drivetrain, good indexed shifters, and a suspended fork. A new, entry level MTB would offer the same plus mechanical disc brakes, but do I need to spend $200-$300 extra for that? For 95% of the riding I do? No.
In closing, the bike industry, like motorcycles and cars, has gotten away from offering good, affordable, basic bikes. Who, besides a hardcore racers, needs a carbon or titanium frame? Who needs electronic shifting? Who needs all this stuff that make bike prices so high? Why can't bike makers build something like a Cannondale SR500 with 700 wheels and indexed shifters? For the price many bikes cost, one could get a nice used, or even new, MOTORCYCLE! If I were going to spend $5K-$10K on two wheels, I might as well get an engine with them. Those are my thoughts...
I live in brevard nc most posh shop want even sell aluminum bikes not everyone can afford carbon just to get into a carbon gravel I went from a Scott genius 720 plus nightmare to a Marin headland 1 however it didn’t break the bank if i would have a gotten a cannondale carbon lefty gravel I would still be a window shopper treks to me are overrated there just like starbucks
They do deserve to reduce those prices nowadays. Who the hell is able to buy the bike just like that without feeling the cost over 5000€, don't want to say over 8000€. When I see for example now Mondraker Dune high spec for over 11k like for what?
the problem with the bike industry is that its just to fragmented there is to much on offer
Its the owner or owners who took advantage of the lockdown and then creating the price increase and stock failings .not good for us biking and hopefully some of the brands can get back to some sensible package for us
This will be an unpopular opinion.
The workers loosing their jobs is sad but at the end of the day we are just a workforce and they work and suffer the consequences of businesses failing. But on the other hand if the prices of the product go out of hand the public can always vote with their wallets and take their business else ware. I am on the consumers side in this situation.
General greed from bike companies in general and not necessarily these ones.
Stages the name my disappear but the ip and products will continue under another name like giant. 13 mil debt is a good trade they are already making almost all of their product
This is simple. This is a market reaction to what the manufacturing companies thought they could charge, and now they’re finding out what the upper limit really is.
You charge too much, people stop finding value in your product.
Bike's are always be the pure fun of life. 😊
Looks like they are at pre-Covid levels. Not bad! Let’s see show the rest of the year pans out.
Shimano is the Dinosaur Brand in the biking industry.
They might just as well fold-up too
They do not just deserve it, but triple deserve it. In 2019 Shimano blocked North Americans from any online buy of better priced group sets out of Europe. The same 105 or Ultegra or Dura Ace group sets were x2 x3 more expensive than in Europe but you could no longer order them as all websites dropped the shipping to Canada or United States. I launched an anti competitive initiative but COVID derailed or stalled that investigation… In addition bike makers upped the gimmick while charging 6000$ for 1000$ painted frames out of Taiwan. Then the electronic group sets pushes the bikes to 17,000$ and I had to spend thais much to own a top performer while knowing it cost 4000$ max to make. And now Asian makers are keeping the OEM prices high while attacking them with cheaper locally named brands. lol they deserve it as this is a story of monopoly and greed gone bad. When the average quality bike is 9000 and top 15000$, TBEY DESERVE it. And let’s not discuss the specialized stop sale issues or Scott poorly made pressifts BBS etc
Yeap paddle is taking over
when will the cycling industry realizes that a sub-$700 regular bike that is not performance driven can save it?
I’ve built bikes from scratch with “Chinese carbon frames”, frames made by the same giant companies making all the other “non Chinese frames”. And having brands pumping 4-5k for a frame is absolute robbery. Not feeling sorry for them. The workers don’t deserve this though
5 figure bikes are stupid.
On some level it is all predictable.
Does the industry deserve it yes, because it is run by some greedy individuals that way overcharged for bikes do the employees deserve it? Well they need to learn that they are just a cog in the machine. It may be a hard lesson to learn but if they dont learn from it, it will happen to them again.
I'm so happy we need to make a USA bike 🎉I hope all go shit make them USA
Fuck road disk brake and electric shifting
Kinda hard to feel sorry for anyone in the industry. I remember asking dozens of “employees”, mechanics, shop owners why bikes have become so expensive. Everyone spouted the same BS: Supply, inflation, bikes are Uber high tech, $12,000 bikes are equivalent to “works factory MX dirt bikes, people have lots of money today and endless rationalizing. Nobody EVER said: well, yea prices are outrageous because we CAN gouge now, so we are gouging. I say the ENTIRE industry is getting a lesson in Karma and market economy. funny thing is, i doubt the marketing bs and endless dishonest greed will stop. its the basis of capitalism especially in the outdoor industry. Schwinn and Sears have evolved into Yeti, Archteryx and REI. Patagucci Baby!!
They made a lot of money during covid. So what are they complaining about
I’m 50 and have seen the bike industry go through this cycle (pun!) a couple of times. We will lose a lot of choice as consumers for the next 5 years. Innovation will cease and the big brands and some boutique brands will survive. Race teams get cut severely and people have to go find jobs in other industries. The core folks will survive by the skin of their teeth and everyone’s grit factor will double. Those 10k bikes will magically be 5 to 6k but only after a couple years of pain.
The pandemic gave everyone a much needed pause to see how overpriced and unnecessary most of these bikes are. Gravel bikes...
Shimano 100% deserves it hope they go bust next!!!
Selling shite like the EP8 motor!!
I dunno why folks are angry....no one forced thenm to pay moron prices for bikes.
Money grab karma, there’s capitalism & there’s greed suits them right to fold.
For everyone out there that thinks the bike industry deserves this. Consider this, you sell your house you make big profits on it. Why? Because of supply and demand when the supply is low demand raises prices also raise. What you’re saying is is the industry should sell their components for less than market value and that’s just stupid.
As someone who owns a shop, this is all OLD news! How about talking about some of the great things that are happening?? All you are doing is simply rehashing everything that others have already said. Instead of being like everyone, how about finding something else that is useful to talk about and share??
Why you speak with guys? What if i also use bike and i want to hear hi, Girls? Wtf?
Cocaine's a helluva drug
If there’s one company that needs to go away it’s pivot. Ridiculously overpriced pretentious brand.
Saw and talked with them at Seaotter, the market manager was a pretentious A-hole.
@@michaelmann3636 exactly! There are better bikes that are cheaper. Also ibis has the dw link as well and they have more moderate options
I don’t see how their bikes are more expensive than any other bikes