Lorch 6mm Watchmakers Lathe - Part 1 - Overview
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- Опубліковано 7 січ 2015
- I got a nice little 6mm watchmakers lathe made by Lorch in the mail, and I invite you to take a look at the opening of the box and even some testcuts.
- Наука та технологія
The Lorch lathe is a beautifully engineered machine ! As several others have mentioned , Steffen Pahlow has demonstrated the many capabilities of this machine . . . from screw cutting to milling - * and of course; precision grinding of many types . ( I've been subscribed to you for a few years, but rarely comment . . . you always get a thumbs up ! )
. . . NOW to find part 2 ! ! !
You look like a kid on Christmas morning! Total joy!
What a superb little lathe I like it very much
oh my, thats lovely.
last week went to an estate sale, one of its kind here in the Bay area, California. Machinist stuff, hand tools, axes, saws and a room full of watchmakers things, so so many watches, I managed to get a few incomplete lathes, one of which was this same one you have, mine came in a smaller box, does not have the cross slide or 4 jaw chuck. I use bigger lathes but will keep this for display! Its nice, I helped the owners organize and helped with the prices, they said I could have a number of things from the watchmakers room which I did. Still there are a lot of goodies in there yet to be discovered, I hope to find some 3 jaw chucks in there come next week. You must be so happy to get this and keep it!
I found you channel and am happy to see someone else knows the value of 6mm watchmakers lathe. I just bought one of these. It is a little less expensive than the 8mm and a lot cheaper than the 10 mm. I do have an addiction to the lathes like the fellow in the previous comment. I have nine lathes. I just bought a Derbyshire with all the needed attachments. Collet holding tailstock, cross slide. milling attachment, countershaft, idler pulley and a 4500 rpm K&D 1/10 horsepower. I am in hopes it is strong enough to run a 10 mm lathe. I do have a couple that have peak speed in excess of 1400 rpm. Thanks for sharing. All the best, Sean
I have always been interested in tiny machines. Congratulations on your new lathe. I think building one of these based upon a small ER collet set would be a GREAT project. You should consider building one. I would love to watch that.
Lovely looking box of fun
Stefan, Happy to hear that you have acquired a Lorch lathe.I have just purchased an excellent Lorch package from England and sent to Sydney Australia, I have so many components that I don't understand the use of Yet and look forward to you're exploration. Another expert watch maker besides those listed below is Stefan Pahlow . he does some beautiful work with Tourbillon and Repeater watches, also has a number of books on the Lorch Lathes for download.
That's very cool. Thank you for sharing
Hi you shocked us we have been watching you and your channel off and on for many years and we missed this you working with what we run micro machines and watchmaker lathes. We love our machines, you do get used to the mini handles they are so accurate sometimes maker thing. We are hoping you will build yourself a watchmakers lathe vise to mount to your bench remove when not in use. We like to say about that steady-rest it supports small holes and smaller holes. Watchmaker lathes are all about the the accessories they are so fun to run. Merry Christmas Stefan.
Hey Stefan, well done on the watchmaker's lathe! I'm very jealous - I have a watchmaker's lathe addiction, although all of my lathes are 8mm. Maybe I could offer you some info? The best books available on the watchmaker's lathe (which will describe just about every accessory and how to use it) will be the one by Jendritzki and the other by Donald de Carle. Both easy to find online.
At 1:30 I think the brass/bronze disc is actually a lap, for polishing. You would embed aluminium oxide powder on it and use that to polish hard steel parts. There is also a wooden lap and an iron one, which I think your lathe has.
The little grinding table will also double for a saw table; you'd need to get a blank arbor onto which you install a slitting saw for this.
At 11:53 you have a rose cutter/sinking cutter. Use either to reduce the underside of a screw head to make the screw head shorter, or to make a small flat-bottomed countersink in a piece of stock. For this you might need to fit a small pin into the middle of the cutter, to help guide it.
11:59 is a Jacot plate/pivoting plate. You're right that it's like a steady rest, but only to be used on the far end of the work, not somewhere along the shaft. Watchmakers are constantly having to drill axial holes into the ends of arbors (to replace broken-off pivots), and this plate supports the end of the shaft while you drill it.
Beautiful lathe! Well done.
Kosmos Horology Wow, that was a great post, the "faceplates" make much more sense for lapping, now as you say it - And right, there is also a wooden and a brass one :)I will also take a look at the books you mentioned, I took it down to my notes.Thank you very much!
Could you point me towards a site where I can Identify my clockmaker's lathe? Thank you.
Beuatiful little machine!
The mandrel with the tapered threads is probably for a felt polishing burr.
The little things near the collets with 4 chisel points look like wood drivers for wood turning.
Or those could be hollow mills for turning a spud on the end of a shaft.
Hello Stefan, Nice overview on a Lorch 6mm lathe. Hope you post some other videos on using this lathe. Would be most helpful for some of us novices in machining. Great Video!
why are we so obsessed with tiny stuff? im envious, even though i feel making watch parts would drive me crazy!
Hello Stefan I really enjoy your videos. I have an 8mm Lorch lathe, your set appears to have some parts I do not have and there are additional parts for you to obtain. Especially useful is a Jacot drum used for polishing pivots.
Whilst I am no expert I have seen a very experienced Swiss trained watchmaker demonstrating using your “rose cutters” (screw cutters) to make screws. The hollow centre leaves the shaft which is then threaded using extremely small button dies or traditionally screw (die) plates. The screw is parted off and the slot is cut.
Watch makers dies and taps can be strange sizes as a stripped hole is usually fixed by using the next size tap without any need to drill the stripped hole.
Hence the need to make new screws. As the diameter, head size and length are critical. It is worth noting almost all the work on a watchmakers lathe is done by using hand gravers not the compound slide.
Very nice addition to your workshop, congratulations!
Cheers
Bengt
With all this down time I'm able to go back and watch some videos I missed. This is an awesome little lathe. So cool really hoping for a Part 2 to this.
That thing is freakin cool man
Hahaha, very nice! Once my shop is less indoor junkyard and bit more laboratory, I hope very much to get one of those! (That set screw chuck had me thinking about safety the moment I saw it..O_O )
I don't know if anyone has mentioned but there is a set of screw shank cutters in there they look like drilled endmills you chuck up a piece of stock and run the cutter into it and it cuts the shank for threading I saw it on another video and thought I would mention it thanks for the awesome videos
The wrench handles look like they are made from Boxwood. It is a nice wood for turning as it holds fine details like the grooves in these items.
I had a similar lathe and did the same as you. Got it out played with it once and then put it away. Forever.
Hi my grandfather had a 6mm lorch my dad ran an 8mm lorch but for me an 8 mm Boley is the way to go I have a hand crank wheel for a lorch kicking around somewhere the motor on yours looks like a nice unit you need to find a pedestal to attach lathe to the bench the end mills I use mostly for spot facing brass disc with collet fitting is used with shellac heated slightly part to be machined inserted and centred quickly before shellac solidifies then with light cuts machining can take place thanks for sharing your extensive knowledge I also have enjoyed learning from what you've put forward so many folks seem to indicate an ownership of knowledge and keep it to themselves we own nothing in this world it seems to me
can't wait for part 2, I love this scale!
Nice lathe, a real joy to use. I have a beautiful Pultra 10 in my collection and it makes me smile every time I look at it. Shame to keep locked away in its box when not in use- I have thought about making a dedicated display cabinet for it, much nicer to look at than a simple glass vase! Would look interesting in my study.
ddddoooooooooo iiiiittttttt
Marvelous!
you wondered how to angle the compound slide, you use a Tommy bar in the socket behind the compound's hand wheel , but BE SOFT with it. Steffen Pahlow gives a great video (but on the K D 50 model) showing this, but no words, just look. love the video, these Lorch lathes are works of art as well as functional :))))
you adjust the compound slide angle by placing a "Tommy bar" into the hole in the brass rod extending out of the cross slide, behind the hand wheel, then you move the bar towards the cross feed wheel to loosen the lock.
That's a thing of beauty. Very nice acquisition.
You should totally make a pair of legs for it. The thing i've always liked about these watchmakers lathes (those that i've seen in person) is that each owner ads a bit to the original.
aserta Thank you, the lathe and it will be an ongoing process to complete it, thats for sure :)I might get a set of the original feets for it, or machine a set myself :)
Stefan Gotteswinter ㄛ
Spur Centers. Lots of spur centers. Or Tube and Barrel Trimmers, for truing up small hollow stock.
super nice kit
Thanks :D
You said you did not know what the small cutters were. These are mounted in the tail stock and used
to cut a pivot on the end of an arbor which carries the Gear. This pivot
extends through the front and back plate of the clock or watch. They can also be used to bore a new hole
through a plate when the pivot hole becomes elliptical due o the side load after the clock has run
for many years, then a new bushing is screwed into the hole and the clock or
watch is good for another hundred years. Its a beautiful old tool, it's rare to see one so complete these days. Thanks for sharing.
12:05 is a Jacot tool, it is used to support the ends of clock or watch arbors to re burnish them/ machine as they have no centres.
one other thing, the rubber belt is a safety feature too, if you try to take a deep cut, the drive will stall out (belt slippage, due to friction value of this drive style), saving the piece being 'thrown off' like a wood lathe 'catch', or to prevent gougeing marks on the part surface.
Hi and congrats on the find! I would like to add to previous comments. The flat disks of wood, brass and steel are lapping wheels (Diamantschleifscheibe) into which you embed diamond powder wetted with oil to polish hardened steel like screw heads or to cut and shape hard stones like ruby pallets.
The small "endmills" are rose cutters that you would use in the tailstock but I did not see the small taper chuck to hold them. Maybe you have it but did not show.
The big screw center that goes into the headstock is made to hold a boxwood chuck which you would custom make to grip a watch case or a bezel softly so you don't scratch it.
Finally, the headstock rectangular "foot" is made to be clamped into a bench vise of the type like you have on your Lista workbench or a smaller watchmaker 45 mm one.
The best resource on Lorch watchmaker's lathes is a compatriot of yours, Steffen Pahlow who has a website and UA-cam channel.
Daniel
AtelierDBurgoyne Thank you very much for your comment, I will try using the laps, and I will see how it goes :)Youre right, there is no way to hold the rose cutters with the accessories of the machine - I might machine my own tapered arbor for that use.That the "foot" is meant to be clamped in the vice makes sense, but I saw that there was also a dedicaded foot availible, that I may replicate.
Very unusual set for a Lorch 6. You can get a lot of information from Steffan Pahlow who is a Lorch fanatic and has published a set of catalogs and videos. The large brass wheel with the crank thing is for turning between centers. The disk with teh set of holes in it is for re-pivoting. It holds the broken pivot so you can drill a hole in it while it spins in the disk which has tapered holes to line up against the pinion shoulder. You have n more grinding and milling attachments than usual but are missing the center drilling and between centers attachments.
Nice little Lathe ! I have an 8 mm Boley, sadly no cross and compound slide, only a toolrest..ah well.. i will just have to make me one..
I like how the motor completely dwarfs the lathe.
For the backwards feedscrews, you could probably cut left handed replacements? Sure you can . Great acquisition for your small part needs.
the second row ... are those counter bores where the gem garnet bushings go or maybe drive spurs for wood turning?... then the really course threaded thing, is it an arbor for a buffing pad/wheel?... some of the other round disks, are they lapping plates, one out of brass and one out of cast iron? I not only want one of these little watch maker lathes so bad, I need one (not really, just trying to convince myself that I need one to justify the money), but I also desire to make one as well, how much fun would that be to make one with every possible option on the planet... maybe even make one that is a 3 in 1 machine that would allow for cutting gears and all the milling and lathe work that would let a guy make dinky stuff... Great video, it was fun to watch, like opening toys on Christmas morning... lol
Will 2018 be the year for part two of this series? One can only hope.
The little 4 bladed tolls are used to turn a part between center.
You have a real treasure there. Some time ago the Swiss went to 8mm collets. A 6mm lathe (the dimension refers to the size of the collet shank) is very difficult to find and a complete set of collets is next to impossible to get. (I read watch/clockmaker's forums and web sites; my current project is to build a clock).
The best book I have found on the topic of watchmaker's lathes is Donald de Carle's "The Watchmaker's and Model Engineer's Lathe" written in 1957 or so but still available in revised form. Search for it. There is no ISBN on my copy. Too old.
A lot of watchmaker's work is done by hand with gravers. Very important you have the handrest! The motor is of course antique. You could replace it with a sewing machine motor, which are typically 1/10 Hp (75 Watt). But if yours works, keep it.
Final comment (much too long already). Now you will have to build a watch :):) I can hardly wait!
Juan Rivero Hi Juan, thank you for the kind words, I will take a look for that book you mentioned - I already tried the turning with the handgravers and it feels not to bad, I think I can get the hang on it, I also will absolutely keep the motor, it makes some noises (I think from the coal brushes, not as I earlier thought of the bearings), but its still a nice motor :)I will keep the watchbuilding back until my retirement in 2060... ;)
I foresee a trip to Furth to a nice electronics store to get carbon brushes ordered that you will have to machine to size.
Maybe get the sewing machine motor with a steel plate under it for low noise working they can be used with a foot control lol :-) then you can store, put the original motor away. Awesome stuff. You could use it in bed at a retirement home in your old age. I love miniature stuff, well done, good find and best of ideas too yu brother :-):-):-) and turn it around 180 for reverse.
@Clickspring envies this very much, for sure!
just another point, those feed screws work that way because the work done on this machine is VERY precise ( ~0.001 mm) so any "mistakes" on our part can wreck it, so it's a safety feature, if we mess up , the tool goes to air, not a bad cut!!
What a beauty. I'd have to use a magnifying setup of some kind though
Yes. You should use magnification anyway no matter what size watchmaker lathe.
Eye loupe so you can see the progress your work is making as it happens.
Thank you so much great work keep going well done
I just found your channel Sir. Excellent work!
good video, by the way I think this is the right way to have the feed screws, for safety reasons (as the parts are so small~ 1-5 mm thick) if you accidentally go to move the wrong way the cutter moves in a safe direction- not wrecking your delicate part !!
Hi Stefan, Did you ever do anything with this beautiful little lathe? I'd love to see more of it!
Lorch & Schmidt was one of the premier European makers of watch- and instrument makers' lathes, but they didn't call them that- it seems they liked to use the term Kleindrehbank ('small lathe') instead; hence the designation 'Kd' in the model number of these machines. They did make larger lathes for toolmaking work.
Stefan, the reason for the 'backwards' cross slide and compound feed crank directions is as a safety, if you just rush in, you will move 'instinctively' {lefty loosy-for a right hand thread}, but HERE, it moves the cutter AWAY from the spinning work, saving the expensive metal or workpiece from a catastrophic mistake.
Hi, Stefan, I had a Watchmakers lathe with that type of compound slide, it drove me crazy with the opposite thread, sometimes I would forget and instead of withdrawing the tool from the work I would ram the tool into the work. For forty years I had used lathes that when you turn the handle clockwise you advanced the tool into the work, I got so frustrated that I sold the lathe.
I've had this issue too...
It's not a great experience when it happens...😖😖
the plate with slots in it is for use on the tool rest clamp on the lathe, as a tool rest when a grinding wheel is put on the head stock, YES a grinding wheel, to polish / sharpen the hand graver. (THIS is the ONLY lathe you can put a grinding wheel on !!- not recommended on a big lathe, only as a watchmaker you don't have to have a separate grinder, just for graver sharpening; it comes all-in).
Fantastic tool! ;)
Would you be equally happy with a Cowell's watchmaking lathe... assuming you also had a comparable collection of accessories?
Awww! That 4-jaw is adorable :D
esta a la venta Late ..................saludos desde Ecuador
I find your English very easy to understand and it is surprising to me that your choice of term are so American in style. But a question on the lathe, I would expect that a good quality engine lathe would hold as good if not better tolerances. I have ER-16 collets that go down to .010". Is there a place in the tool room for such a machine tool? I can understand having such a tool for aesthetic reasons, as I myself have old machine tools that show the craftsmanship of older generations.
I’d love more videos about this machine or you doing projects with it. Are there any on your channel? Thanks for being among the most respected machinist.
Beautiful machine you've got there.
I think the part you showed at the 11:50 mark could be a “face driver” (Stirnseiten-Mitnehmer) which you can attach on your lathe center.
The part at 12:27 is indeed a pulley which you can attach on a dead center for eccentric turning, but you don’t seem to own an eccentric lathe center. Here is a picture showing one (second from left).
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For eccentric turning you put the belt from your motor on this brass pulley to turn your part.
The workpiece you want to machine is clamped between centers and the stick on the pulley acts as a lathe dog.
Philipp Aznable Thank you too for all that input, especialy on the use of the brass pulley :)
Hmm.... Saw one for sale on craigslist here in Minneapolis .Never have seen one so complete.though.
The rose cutters look like hollow mills to me. These are used on turret lathes to cut standard diameters quickly. I could not find rose cutters as they pertain to watchmaking lathes. Can you elaborate?
Hallo Stefan, how is life in Germany?
25 or so years ago a Swiss BERGEON watchmaker's lathe followed me home. It came with a few collets in almost inch sizes, a three-jaw self centering chuck, a 6 jaw self centering chuck, plus a handful of bits and pieces.
Unfortunately the 6 jaw chuck came with only 3 equally spaced jaws. Too bad. I have contemplated making a new set of jaws since these are top jaws and are screwed and keyed to the scroll jaws. Anyone know where I can purchase a set without getting a new mortgage? Thanks.
For a drill chuck in the tail stock I adapted a Dremel chuck. A local hardware store had a sale and I picked up three of them. Made a new tailstock ram and threaded it for a very close fit for the Dremel chuck. I picked the most concentric one for use on this lathe.
I don't use this lathe very often, but for turning small dia. and drilling small holes, it is a gem.
Oh yes, the feed screws on the long and cross feed slides work in the accepted manner. I would have sold the thing otherwise.
For lubricating the bearings I use Singer Sewing Machine oil. The plain hardened bearings are a very clever bit of engineering. I'd like to know how they are mass produced.
Greetings from Ontario Canada, where we had very normal summer weather so far.
I have come into ownership of a very very similar watchmakers lathe, although it is marked as being made by Aero rather than Lorch.
Its missing a motor to drive it and although there are a lot of accessories, its not quite as complete as this, its missing all the collets except for one.
Not sure I'll ever use it for anything other than a very cool paperweight.. Is it likely to be worth much?
Hi Stefan, i got to see this old video of yours after your latest PEEK video. Nice tool.. I see that there is no part 2 for this.. You said you are going to put it aside.. Did you ever use it?
I have bought a similar lathe so i would ask you what is the diameter off the belt ?
Thích quá
Amazing!, thanks!
HOw much did it cost and how accurate is it, considering the age????
I need this in my bedroom
definitely!
Stefan Gotteswinter も
its not realy comfortable to sleep in metaldust and metalchips. had a small milling machnine in my bedroom
I have downloaded about 70 of your videos onto my computer, which I watch many times. However, I just noticed I can't find Part 2 of the "Lorch 6mm Watchmakers Lathe". Have you produced part 2 or has this fallen by the wayside?
Max G It's been 12 months since you posed your question, and still no answer here. One could surmise that the conversation has stalled, frozen in time, dead in the water, been swallowed up into a Black Hole, engulfed by boredom, fallen off a cliff, kicked the bucket, *OR* _he just doesn't read his incoming mail_ .
I also am waiting with baited breath for part 2. However given the number of followers that Stefan has, it is unlikely that he has the time to read these comments, nor the time to feature this dinky lathe in a new video. I for one will live in hope.
Never give up!
Hey when do we get to see part 2? ;-)
never?
Was ist denn nun mit der deutschen Pünktlichkeit? 😂
If you don’t mind my asking, how much did you pay for the set ?
Nice lathe!
I think the faceplate with the screw thread might be meant for cloth polishing wheels.
Look up the pronunciation rules for "the" if you care, as well as the word "bearing". You were probably taught wrong at school, like every other native German speaker. You'd almost think there was a conspiracy to teach us the wrong pronunciation so we are always easy to identify ;-).
stefantrethan I try to improve my spoken (and written) english constantly, so every hint helps me ;)At least the ears of you who listen dont start to bleed on my words.You might be right with the threaded arbor, didnt think about that until I read your lines.
I was smiling the whole video. CNC and DRO?
Ahhh, I dont think cnc and dros are gaining tracktion. Just a trend like waterjet cutting, 3d cinema and small mobile phones ;)
A lot of the noise that you were getting while running your lathe was the bottom half of that rubber belt resonating like a bass guitar string. Maybe try tightening it up some, or maybe make a leather belt. Should at least quiet things down a little bit, not to mention run a whole lot smoother.
have you done anything or used this lathe for much since you got it??
Did it come with tiny safety specs?
Safety contact lenses.
So etwas ist nix für mich... viel zu klein für mich. Aber auf den Schreibtisch würde ich mir die Maschine gleich stellen :)
What does it mean 6 mm Watchmakers Lathe? It is probubly diameter?
Of course you all show it. I have to see someone make as much as a screw or something easier a bridge plate
Tbh, i dont like the watchmakers lathe for actual work. My big emco lathe does all the same, just better. I did pins, 0.5mm diameter today on the Emco and it was a breeze with the heavy and stiff machine and the DRO.
(also i am a machinist not a watchmaker;) i have no clue about mainplates)
هل فى واحده اخرى للبيع . وكم ثمنها❤
If you find a Lorch lathe, with 6mm collets buy it.
got one and can,t wait to sell it
From where to buy. Or order
hi, stefen. i was given a unimat 1000 years ago, a gift from my father. he got it from his uncle, who made and repaired grandfather clocks as a hobby. very interested in the best uses for it.
sam yeates Hi Sam - I am not familiar with the Unimat, but sizewise it seems to be about the size of a watchmakers lathe...so perfectly suited for small work :)
i like the way you made your equipment better and you make you own tools. i watched Oxtools and all his friend from day one. i was tried of ducking parts flung across the room from not doing things right. tom has made things easyer. also mrpete222 has great stuff . thanks for sharing.
sam yeates I owned a Unimat as well. Very nice lathe.
Hello Mr. Gotteswinter,
I know you are a busy man but I was wondering if you still have the Lorch lathe and if so do you ever use it?
Thank you in advance for your response.
Paul,,
Yes, I still have it and I almost never use it :-(
I will most likely put it in a shelf in my living room, as its a gorgeous machine.
@@StefanGotteswinter Indeed a shame... Thank you for taking the time to reply.
Hi my grandfather had a 6mm lorch my dad had a n8😴
Can i come to play?
nice tool keep making movies
Hi Stephen what happened to this beautiful little lathe?
Was it not riged enough for you? 😂
...part 2? ...please? ...pretty please?
Can this be used for clocks.
Yep!
:D und Ich dachte das meine Wade CAV klein sei
tape directly on old wood.....yaaay
What is this?? A lathe for ANTS?
The lathe has to be at least.... three times bigger than this!
@Stefan Gotteswinter (this is a reference to Zoolander, a comedy movie where the main character is presented with a model of a school, but as he is blatantly stupid, he understands that the model is the actual school, hence both commentaries)
In those days it was common to use oak wood for tool handles, the colour also suggests oak
No DRO?
I dont think they make glass scales small enough
Stefan Gotteswinter Hmmm. True. If you don't mind me asking, what'd you buy it for? Any particular project or just another tool to add to the collection?
hello